What Happened to the Inter-Frisian Flag?
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
- The Frisians are a Germanic ethnic group living in the coastal regions of North-western Europe in the Netherlands and Germany. Most often, the flag associated with the Frisians contain what appear to be red hearts, but which are actually waterlillies. These can be found on both the flags of Fryslân
and the Inter-Frisian Flag. In this video I'll explore the meaning behind the Frisian flags.
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I think the best way they could've slightly altered the initial proposal, was to change the upper left and lower right blue lines in the cross to black, and leave the blue lines in the lower left and upper right blue. This way you have a diagonally 'symmetrical' design that represents East-Frisia while keeping the rest of the flag the same.
Actually that makes the most sense. Plus it wouldn't even be that difficult of an alteration.
I was about to say ðat. Kind of black cross or pompabled in ðe middle inside ðe white cross
I have done it to see it and it looks cool. Oðer person has made a black line between ðe blue line and ðe white. It seem also nice.
I þink it could be a good idea to make a reddit group for ðis porpuse.
This makes the most sense to me.
Best choice
I think option 1 is the best. I think it looks very good. And also fits in with the rest of the European flags
Honestly would it really kill the design to add a black line in the middle of the white line.
@@youwouldntclickalinkonyout6236 Good idea, that would please de East Frisians, to see some black in it
The first flag submitted by the groep fan Auwerk is definitely my favorite, I even have a physical copy of it myself!
I as well, cheers
Anyway As a WestFrisian I feel kinda forgotten, We killed the dutch king/duke once you know
Agreed.
West Frisians (the real ones, not the middle Frisians of Friesland who often get called West Frisians) historically occupied much more of North Holland (basically all the land above the IJ). Although not enough evidence exists it is theorized that they were the victim of a huge ethnic/cultural cleansing. One example being the 'Slag bij Vronen' where supposedly a whole town (Vronen) was slaughtered and replaced by a new Frankish town (Sint Pancras) after some of the town had rebelled against the count of Holland. For this particular example archaeologists found 132 skulls. If such actions happened in the modern era we would have been speaking of genocide.
I would suggest here that one pompeblêd should represent all of old west frisia.
😂 yes and hid him. Wasn't his son killing many many frisians after he found his fader?
I think the first one is the best looking design for a flag. It is also fairly simple compared to the other ones, and the best flags are never very complicated desugns.
dankjewol jonkje !! fryslan boppe
1, the Scandinavian cross, without a doubt, for aesthetic reasons.
I prefer the fourth flag, the one with the questionmark. I think it represents the current situation very well.
The first flag is being used the most, so it is the first flag that has been chosen by the people themselves and that's what counts.
Great content, als een Nederlander ben ik zo enorm blij dat ik tegenwoordig zoveel over de Friezen kan leren, ach man als we nooit waren overgenomen door dat Frankische Rijk dan hadden we z'n oud land kunnen wezen. Echt zo van 900AD ofzo? echt geweldig.
The first proposal for an inter-Frisian flag is still the best one, but to appease the council and east-Frisians add in black the Upstalsboom.
Honestly the first one looks the best. It is the most aesthetically pleasing and it just makes the most sense~
Love the Frisians despite our friendly rivalry
The Ommelanders are also of Frisian heritage and I really wish we could get over the artificial divide created by the Hollanders and become brothers once more.
@@bapo224 I’m of partial Frisian Heritage just like most people in the north of the Netherlands 🇳🇱
@@randomhistoryfan7803 well people in Drenthe and Groningen city are mostly of Saxon heritage, though of course Frisians and Saxons are very closely related.
@@bapo224 Yes, the Anglo Saxons and the Anglo Frisians.
I'd go for the Scandinavian cross (number 1) but with a black inner lining in the cross to represent East-Frisia.
The Friesland flag is one of my favorite flags.
@Leo I The Thracian What a coincidence Leo I was reading about the ancient Thracians earlier.
@Leo I The Thracian Also RIP Queen Elizabeth ll.
Dude, I see you everywhere. Especially under based channels, good job.
For me it's definitely the 1st design, both in design and symbolism as well as me being both a part of the Danish and the Frisian minority in Germany, or rather Schleswig-Holstein. The combination of the Scandinavian cross and the Frisian colours/symbols is the perfect flag for me.
I like the first flag. I think that perhaps there could be a bit of black added to it to make the East Frisians happier with it
Moin! East Frisian here. I gotta say the designs that our section of the interfrisian counsel send in looked awful :D
In regards to the 4 options for flags:
1. I gotta say that the first one does look the best. However the criticism from my section is valid. Black is the most important colour on our flag, since it stands for the Cirksena family, who ruled as counts of East Frisia for hundreds of years. Red and blue on the contrary stand for chieftains who got defeated by the Cirksena (Blue for the Ukenas and Red for the Tom Broks). So the first one kind of sidelines us.
2. This flag is both the most inclusive and the worst. Although it includes all three modern "Frisias", it is to stylised to inspire any form of allegiance. (A modern looking design does not work for a people who have a 2000 year old history.) Also it looks more like a company logo, than a flag that tries to represent an ethnic group.
3. Although this flag does look nice it fails in one crucial aspect. it is entirely West Frisian centric. Those lions are neither a East- nor North Frisian symbol and would thus only represent West Frisia adequately. (I do know that lions have symbolism in Schleswig, so please feel free to correct me if the north frisians do have some sort of connection to those lions.)
4. Since im a big fan of heraldry I'd say that a new Frisian flag needs to also feature heraldry from all Frisians. So I'd say take the most prominent features of the 3 frisian coat of arms and put them somehow together on a new flag. Perhaps with a shield that is split into 3 parts, with a lion for West Frisia, a "virgin-eagle" (that is the direct translation for it) for East Frisia and a cut in half double headed imperial eagle for North Frisia (sounds weird but that is my best description for it).
I would probably choose either number 1 or 4 (if a good alternative for number 1 can be designed).
With that I hope I gave some good insights to the view points of East Frisia on those Flags.
PS: EALA FRYA FRESENA
I think the option 1 is the best, just replace the blues in the upper left and bottom right to black just so to represent yall :D also my other solution is to put a black line forming a cross to the middle of white ig ;)
I like the idea of a black line inside the white of the first flag would be representing the East Frisians better. But I agree the first flag looks the most international!
Isn't Ostfriesland low german/low saxon?
Sorry, but heraldry, especially complicated splits in heraldry makes for piss poor flags, see the dreaded american "blue bedsheats with coat of arms" flags or even the insane russian idea to put a great coat of arms on a flag with all that unnecessary detail nobody can see at 100 meters anyway... IF you'd want to combine the symbols it should be something like a winged sphinx (so the women's head from the Emden Arms, the wings from the eagle parts and the lion body)
@@AJBNord Language wise, yes. But culturally, no.
I think the best option would be to take #1 and add a black cross within the white cross, bisecting the lines. That would answer the problem of not having black, while keeping the aesthetic nordic design.
My great grandfather was Frisian. This was super interesting.
last time I was this early, it was still used
Within the next month, Lower Saxony will have their legislative election - and a candidate are "De Freesen" (Frisian Minority Party for East Frisians and Frisian Low Germans).
I wish them much success ❤
Always so interesting!
Tbh we maybe should just use the flag of the province of Fryslân for all Frisians. It looks good, is easily recognisable and already has symbolism that represents all of frisia. The Seven frisian sea countries separated by three rivers. The design is also shown in historical sources as an attributed coat of arms of kings like Redbad.
I think the best Frisian flag is the most common and easily recognizable one: the blue and white stripes with pompeblede on it
As Otto Waalkes once said, the Frisian flag is a white eagle on white ground!
4.
Take the existing flag 1
Add a green band to the cross
Make 2 lilly flowers black and keep 2 red
Will make an awesome flag and cater for all province colours
Ooh my grandpa lives in Ljouwert. Sadly I can’t come this Tuesday but definitely a very cool thing you’re doing. I’ll actually inform my grandpa about this
Im happy now
Number one by far, I too would like to see more videos on the Fries, one of the forgotten people of Europe.
Great video, there sure is a lot of interesting symbolism in both the Frisian and Interfrisian flag! Here's my take on which flag is the best, even though I truly am a sucker for number 3, it's just the flag version of the Westerlauwers Frisian coat of arms with extra steps. I truly despise the current Interfrisian flag, it just looks like a company flag or something. And flag number 1 remains in my opinion the best Interfrisian flag!
Though maybe to please our Eastern friends maybe the old Finnish solution might be a good idea. Slap the COA of the Cirksenas (the old Counts of East-Frisia) at the cross. This coat of arms is a black shield with a crowned golden harpy. Not only does it add symbolism from the east (though from a noble family that has died out) it also adds the black that the East-Frisians were missing in the original flag. An extra layer of symbolism: Edzard the Great's reign was perhaps the closest the Frisians got to a homegrown movement to unite the Frisians in the Early-Modern period!
I think the simplissity of the skandinavian flags and the flags for the different frision regions is great. I would love a like tricolour flag with the water lilly in the middle (if you want to on a shield or something similair)
Great video thank you. Indeed, many villages in Northern-Groningen (Above Groningen City) speak some form of Frisian dialect.
Just take the first one, and put a black band straight through the middle. Or make the white part black. There's lots of ways of adding another color to a flag that don't look like a toddler decided to try out her water-color paints on the middle of your new blue rug.
Nice break down. Top left flag works for me. In your credits.
Môj! I loved your mention of my dialect in your video, Westfries, which is spoken in Northern North Holland. Feel free to ask me anything about our culture and language!
The Scandi cross version looks the most pleasing.
Modify (1) to change the two right-angled blue lines on the right to green and black to include the two missing colours from regional flags.
1. is by far the most used of these. I like it. But I am open to new ideas and the other existing options
Why didn't they just add a black cross within the first design, sorta like the Norwegian flag? It's seems like a much simpler solution than throwing out the whole design
I was just thinking this. Just add black in the cross area and boom, problem solved
Then you have 5 colours in a flag. Four is quite a lot already.
The cross flag looks the best out of all shown here. Internationally the cross also is a clear symbol for the region IMHO.
1 is the most aesthetically pleasing
Thanks Hilbert for another fascinating vexillological video. I think you once referred to New York City having a Netherlands derived flag. My state, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, has promised to consider a new flag and state seal due to objections by the original inhabitants who say that the ones that are in use depict them as conquered/defeated people. I wonder if you would be interested in looking into the issue. Massachusetts' flags used to have an obverse and different reverse. The reverse featured a white shield with green tree and no words. This is currently the Massachusetts Naval ensign and the governor's flag. I have proposed a return to the Bunker Hill flag which is thought to have a blue field instead of the British red field [this is disputed as likely an error], but with the white canton featuring a green tree and NO controversial red cross of St. George.
i like the scandinavian cross because it honours a common Germanic heritage. Concept: the St George cross for England but offset the cross into a Scandinavian cross style also
Interestingly enough, I'm working on a CK2 mod that uses the Inter-Frisian Flag.
How will you use it exactly?
@@frisianwarrior2295 I'm using it for an Empire title called "Magna Frisia" which is formed by controlling all of de jure Frisia, Brabant, and Flanders, and either Lotharingia or England.
@@artix548 Sounds awesome, go for it:)
@@frisianwarrior2295 For Ingvaeonic Glory!
Nice. I never knew that.
This question keeps me up at night.
Great video (as always)
Both design 1 and 3 are very nice. Number 2 is just awful.
Though just a tip, the four Pompeblêden in design 1 do not need to be defined as concrete regions, always a risk that you miss people or region.
Just let them represent North, West, South, East for all Frisians no matter where they live.
I think if they just add a black outline to the cross on the first design it would be fine
The one with the lions, looks great.
Flag number 1 looks the best.
The answer to why the symbols aren't yellow may go back to medieval heraldry. Yellow and white are referred to as "metals" and represent gold and silver. One of the rules of heraldry is that two metals cannot touch each other. Red, since it's not a metal, can touch silver. If they wanted a white background for some reason, they couldn't use yellow for the symbols. The only flag as far as I know that violates this is the flag of Vatican City.
"Let's put a heart-shaped object on our flag, which is actually not a heart at all. Let's also paint it red, although it's not actually red. There certainly won't be any confusion."
It is actually more common in heraldry than you would initially think, although i can stil get someones confusion by this. The Royal coat of arms of Denmark for example also has the red lily pads
When in spring small waterlilyleaves come up on the waterline they tend to be reddish. After a while they get green!
I like 3 the most.
Flag # 1 would be my choise. Eastetically it is the best, it is pleasant to the eye. As for the choise of colours I would feel satisfied with at least one colour from my region being represented, not necessarily all of them. This flag does have colours from all regions.
Sjouke de Zee developed the (now official) design between 1895-1898 probably based on several earlier historic versions of Frisian flags. Around 1898 he had a very large version of the new design on his house as proven by a picture of that time. In 1898 were the inauguration festivities of Queen Wilhelmina and it seams that he started selling these flags in that period. He was a producer/trader of textile goods, like "kaasdoek" and workman/farmer clothes.
Sjouke de Zee was a very proud and fanatic Frisian and a very active person both in trade, in religion and in politics. He was elected member of the Frisian province States and tried to speak Frisian in official sessions of the provinciale staten. That was forbidden, because only Dutch was recognized as the official language and he was kicked out of those sessions.
He also made several long trips to the USA and Canada during the twenties and thirties to meet Frisian immigrants and wrote several books about these trips and the people he encountered. He was also a Frisian poet and very active in the Doopsgezinde Kerk (Anabaptist Church).
Sjouke was pake (grandfather) of my mother. I'm only 50% Frisian myself but, like my mother, I'm proud on the role of my oerpake (great-grandfather).
De encyclopedie van Friesland:
“Sjouke de Zee, dairy worker, later manufacturer in Irnsum. Acted as a lay preacher, reciter, was a propagandist for Frisian, total abstinence, state pension, popular education, led Anabaptist camps.”
Use the 1st inter-Frisian flag with the yellow. Make the blue cross boarder black next to the East Frisian pompablan and make the boarder green near the pompablan for the group that has the green cross in their flag.
Flag 1 looks most legit
If you want to consider the Missing black just draw a black cross inside.
Or put a black Framework around it
The first one definitely looks the best
I wish any children good luck drawing the flag with the 2 lions.
The main problem i have with it is that people would have to spend a lot of money or they need to be skilled themselves in order to make a flag like that. I think the flag with the cross is by far the best design and I think they should've iterated on that one instead of trying to design something from scratch
I think option 1 is best. Perhaps I would eliminate the lower vertical line to avoid the reference to the cross and make it look more like a horizon which unites more people than the church.
I really like the first flag. And if you need the black color you can add it to this flag. I did it in three versions, one thin black cross in the middle of the white one, as an outline of it and a black-white mixed cross in the 3D-ish style of the Nato star. All of them came out quite nice imo.
Sadly I can't link my imgur here to show them.
Awesome. Appreciate your work.🇳🇱🇳🇱🇳🇱.
"De Friesche Vlag" is the trademark of Indonesian dairy product which has existed long before Indonesia got its independence in 1945.
For me (non-Frisian at all), the flag of the Dutch province of Friesland (blue and white diagonal strips with pompeblêden) is what comes to mind when you say "Frisian flag"...
From the perspective of a Swede I’m thinking of examples as the Sami flag, the various national flags of Scandinavia. But also Slavic, African and Latin American flags. Could you manage to get a meaningful and historical layout and mix the regional flags. As you said only one flag has black and they wouldn’t be reprised if you would leave it out. It’s hard because you don’t seem to have three or four pan-Frisian but six and it can be hard to mix all and the water lily leaves in one flag which wouldn’t be cluttered. Are you sure they you couldn’t just take the water lily leaves and put one for each region in a circle like the eu flag?😅
Either IFF 3 or for something more northern IFF 1, but without the four water lilies.
So looking at the flags that inspired the first flag,I reckon the blue border of the cross could be made black. Blue is obviously a very relevant colour to all Frisians but the yellow, red pompeblêden and white already do a lot of work and seem to represent everyone quite nicely, the black would clearly represent the eastern Frisians.
It seems like a shame to lose the blue, and I love the first flag, but if we want this to be a symbol for all Frisians something has to change to make the east Frisians feel welcome. (And clearly options 2 and 3 are just bad.)
Use the first one and make something black, one of the boxes or part of the stripes.
I like number 3 but number 1 would be more widely appealing
I think that hate first flag is the best.
Being from Hamburg, I was confused for a long time why North Frisia is in the North and East Frisia in the West.
The Inter-Frisian flag reminds me of the flag of the Icelandic Commonwealth(which unfortunately is a forgotten flag), but slanted and with heart like symbols.
Hello Hilbert. Nice to see you on a topic you take to heart (not lilly!).
The Nordic style flag does look best. If you took the left blue parts and substitute green and black this satisfies the requirements of the East Frisian representatives. It would be a bit like the look of the South African flag.
💞💕👏😻😻➕
Cool
I like the first one, and I don't see why we can't add black to it.
My suggestion is: the make the ribbons black, and instead colour the top left region blue. Remove the lily pad and ribbon from that quadrant, or turn the pad white or yellow. This is now the North Sea.
We can make this the simplified flag, and the heralded flag can be the same, but instead of a light lily pad in the North Sea, it has a quartered herald with each of the flags on it.
4. Combine the first flag with black inner striping in the cross
Not a big fan of complex flags, but number 3 is the most decent one
The first proposed yellow interFrisian flag is the most accepted one. I see it all the time and have it in my twitter profile.
What about including the green of the Freisanal(?) Movements?
Happen to own the 1st one myself.
Frysk are in Canada too 👍
I am not a Frisesan but the pure white flag with the red water lily looks very pure and pleasing.
I would say, the Pompeblêden are red, because in german heraldic rule, you can't combine two metals (in this case silver, white) with another metal (gold or yellow). Instead you have to choose a colour (here red). Same by the way, colour can't appear on colour. At least, in general.
I don't know how true this rule if for german heraldry, but I can think of many examples of metal on metal in German heraldry, it happens when they represent saints over white background, the halo being yellow, i.e. gold over silver.
And the case of Mecklenburg-Volpommern, being too liberal with their use of gold and silver.
It's the first flag for me because I do get the feeling, and do think I am right on this one, that we as Frisians are very proud to have connections with scandinavia and are proudly wanting to adopt the cross. As Aant Jelle Soepboer once awesomely said: "perhaps we are the losers of the south, but we are the winners of the north" referring to the conquering of the Hollanders over the Frisians and became part of The Netherlands.
But maybe if anyone can agree their could be an adjusted design of it. I just simply love the flag!
As a Dane i'm quite curious to know from a Frisian's perspective why you're proud of the Scandinavian connections. It has always intrigued me to know.
The one chosen by the Interfrisian council actuallly looks like the iris of an eye reflecting what it is looking at - the entire Frisian people..
I can see why #2 is soundly rejected by nearly everyone, it's... bad. I am neutral on the other two.
I also like the last proposal the most
although I don't know what the two lions should represent......on Husum's coat of arms the two lions are the ones of Slesvig, for the Dukes of Slesvig supported the growth of early Husum that much, but dunno what the rest of Frisia has to do with lions
imo ships, like on the coat of Eiderstedt, would be more fitting - one for every region
Do the water lillies have to be facing opposite sides? It seems to be the opposite of the regional Frisian flag
♥
option one is best, but I think a new one should be made to include the East Frisians, so option 4.
In Dutch they are called water lelies
What I would do is take the Nordic cross design, but make 2 of the yellow quadrants black, so it’s symmetrical, and hat would would an excellent design
Seems quite doable to just add something black to the first flag if it really is that important. Maybe replace part of the blue or yellow with black or just add a line or strip in black somewhere. Might as well add zwarte piet.
option 1 with slight modification. maybe add a black cross inside white.
Definitely option 1.
i think the first is the best one, but the lions are cool too. i think if you add too many colors it will be too busy, and not aesthetically pleasing.
Number three! It looks far more traditional than the other two.
I'll go with number 1 😊
While watching this video I started to understand why the Frisian nation has fallen apart ...
1 or 4, 4 would then be the flag of the Dutch province of Friesland, as a person from Holland that flag for me is just iconic for the Frysian identity, and otherwise option 1 is a really good one imo