No Time | Mark Fisher | Virtual Futures 2011
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- Mark Fisher - No Time
Virtual Futures
University of Warwick, 18-19 June 2011
VirtualFutures....
Mark Fisher is the author of Capitalist Realism (Zer0 2009) and the forthcoming Ghosts of My Life. He writes regularly for Film Quarterly, The Wire, Sight and Sound and Frieze, and blogs at k-punk.abstractdynamics.org. He teaches at the University of East London, Goldsmiths, University of London, and the City Literary Institute. He was a founding member of the Cybernetic Culture Research Unit and helped to organise Virtual Futures '96.
so unfair that the realest homies die out early
no! maybe he’s right. -Phillip Mainlander
So sad and sudden that he committed suicide. Really renegade thoughts and vision.
Feudal Lord that dude went out like a boss.. standing on his own books before hanging
Joe Urban facts!
Sadly you can tell that he is struggling
his nervous energy is somehow fitting
Absolutely. Seems like he is physically channelling and conducting all these dystopian truths as he shares the insights with us.
Hare Krishna yes he looks like he is in the vampire castle
"in the West instead we have this banal capitalism, dominated not by a kind of ever-mutating digital dance floor culture but by sort of the neurotisizing mechanisms of social media or social networks" - RIP Mark Fisher
On first hearing I thought it said necrotizing mechanisms of social media!
P N Also kind of relatable lol, Necro-neuronyism
5:19 - nightmare topology
6:58 - public domain
11:24 - cyber depression
13:20 - everything has changed but nothing has really happened
14:50 - they've changed everything, but only at the level of consumption and distribution, not on the level of content and culture...
15:25 - a growing sense of digital communicative malaise
16:47 - we are the subjects of an experiment which no one is consciously really conducting
17:00 - electro libidinal parasite
18:00 - who has got control of time here? how have they got control of it? cultural determinism, technology isn't enough on its own to deliver new culture
21:10 - shocking banality of the first decade of the 21st century, atemporality in the most banal way
23:20 - restoration culture vs contemporary futurism
24:00 - banal capitalism dominated by the neuroticizing methods of social networks
26:40 - switch from fordism to post-fordism and precarity which is intensified by digital media
28:40 - postmodernism vs atemporality, novelty (bruce sterling)
29:40 - pastiche, retrospection, nostalgia mode (fredric jameson)
30:38 - pastiche: lack of certainty at economic+political level so you reach to older culture as reassurance, unmappability of the modern world and capitalist city that intensifies in a hyperdigitalized world so again seek reassurance in older forms of culture
31:50 - going back as a strategy of defeat, neoliberalism owns the structure of time pre-2008
32:42 - when ideology historically collapses there is another one to take its place, but there is nothing like that now: neoliberalism is still carrying on even though it's dead
33:26 - ideological vacuum
34:07 - practical precarity as the future
34:40 - broader problem of winning back time, ethics of the self and discipline (michel foucault)
34:56 - escape into trances again, 90s vision of the internet, loss of attention and ability to be in a trance
35:48 - digital psychedelia, dilation of time instead of harried sense of time
Bro,thanks
@@user-rz4xl6dt7k lol '' bro ''
20:09 _"I don't know what messages I've got, but at least the phone does."_
Interpassivity.
I know that I am not corn on the cob, but does the chicken know it?
@@JokkeDotH ha!
12:30 "there is a sense that everything has changed, but nothing has really happened"
Absolutely brilliant evaluation of the dystopia breaking out around us. What a huge loss that both Fisher and Graeber have died. We desperately need intellectuals like Fisher to carry on and continue to narrate and explain the nightmares of the now. Fisher's lectures are critical for anyone attempting to come to terms with the digital hell we are all being forced into.
True. They both were absolute legends! Their work and everything they have given us is indescribable. We are very lucky to have their ideas in this format to listen to and hopefully learn from. RIP David Graeber and Mark Fisher. They both will be remembered and they both did so much for our species. Thanks for everything. 🙏
Fisher didn’t die. He killed himself. I guess he figured his TIME was up.
@@subjectt.change6599 what the fuck that was an awful joke please don't make it
i did laugh a little though.
The man who asked the right question.
I’d like to have known Mark personally, I’d say he was a fascinating conversationalist. He’s always struggling to get the ideas out as they rush into his head.
"Watch later"
'Favourites.'
Lmao clever
Now!
Darn, I missed out on the prediction of a lost future and now I have forgotten the memories of my nostalgia for the lost opportunity I never really had or believed in.
Better move the video to favorites.
"Liked"
Had the luck to see Mark Fisher in person, for the Death of Rave talk awhile back, here in Berlin. It was incredible.
I always think there’s something funny about ‘seeing’ academics ‘live’. I often find myself referring to the time I went to a Zizek lecture. 😂 I suppose it’s more appropriate for Mark than most though, given his work.
@@superdeluxesmell can you explain fischer's appeal to me?
I find it hard to watch any of his talks for more than 10 minutes.
@@peterlauch6172 It’s his writing and thoughts, not the spoken presentation of them... check Weird & Eerie
@@peterlauch6172 I think it's that a lot of popular theory now falls easily into a culture or politics bracket. Fisher was attempting to do something more ambitious - to explore the "feel" of being alive in the modern world, exploring the culture that seemingly offered a way out of our present moment or was a dead end, and then explaining why the idea of replacing our system with something new seemed such a monumental task (despite a global economic crash and a pandemic that has exposed how dysfunctional our political setup is).
If you've not read it already, I'd start with Capitalism Realism but the really good stuff is in his K-Punk blogs, which are now available as a book.
@@peterlauch6172 understand why you might feel that way, his nervous energy can seem a bit offputting but I like to think that maybe it's just because we're so used to seeing overly produced and perfected people and speeches and performances that that is the case. Polished is what we're accustomed to and things that arent "camera ready" so to speak, seem a bit weird or amateurish. But if you've read his writings. **chef's kiss**
I agree with him 100% but I am also glad that youtube exists so this talk could be delivered to me sitting here in Calcutta, not Warwick. I'm unable to imagine how I can adopt a positive relationship with technology.
By changing your ideology your relationship towards technology can also change. The problem here is obviously capitalism and not technological progress itself.
@@cabbagectrl loolllll imagine thinking that the two aren't codependent
@@DystopianDeepDives They are not codependent at all, people don't need capitalism to make things. Capitalism is just there to exploit the surplus value of all work. It stifles innovation rather than it fuels it.
The second statement seems to negate the first statement. Being glad this talk is available to watch at any time in Calcutta is indicative of a fairly positive relationship with technology. There's no other means of accessing it otherwise, and without technology it would have faded into the aether unheard rather than being watched by tens of thousands of people.
@@DystopianDeepDives Of course they're not. Are you so small minded as to think humanity will never have another socio-economic system? Of course we will our system has changed even since this speech was given, it will change much more over a hundred years and technology and science will progress under that new system just as it did in the systems before capitalism. Use brain please
本でしか知らない彼に逢えて幸せな気持ちです。ありがとう！
"Everything has changed but nothing has really happened"
Some of Mark Fisher's far-out takes did come true. spot on. Today we see millions of zombies on zoom .. Pretending to change things and work...
That little Land/death drive pun was amazing. I only found out about Fisher a few weeks ago and I already miss him.
timestamp?
21:01
Também vou assistir depois! A quantidade de vídeos que tenho recebido de Mark Fisher me tem impressionado, mas até agora, confesso, não tenho aproveitado quase nada além da visível emoção com que ele fala... Parece sempre estar improvisando, incapaz de controlar um fluxo de ideias que se atropelam como se não conseguisse terminar uma frase pulando para a seguinte e assim sucessivamente...
Ele me enerva pois quero compreender sua angústia mas não ao preço de me angustia também..
This is the realest thing you'll ever hear.
the realness.
Fisher embodied his philosophy and criticism-certainly a man of conviction who literally proved the dissociative nature of time.
If anyone has a transcript of this talk it would be the best thing ever
We will work on getting this onto our website.
Just click on the three dots at the bottom of the video - (...) and then click 'Show Transcript' - CZcams gives a fairly helpful attempt at a transcript.
nice, can't wait for generations to come to study how time stopped just like we did
I for one am grateful that alan watts is in my up next sidebar
Recently I went shopping in a mall for the first time in a long time. The music from the sound system was modern hits but track after track sounded identical to something 35+years ago.
Hauntology
whilst everyone styled like our generation and cultures from our childhoods, teens, and into adulthoods
It’s true. I feel like I’m interacting with clones at times.
Yep. Talk about anything out of the allowed Order and boing. Their gone.
May Mark's sensitive, thoughtful soul RIP
15:14 - Ever increasing speed of "communicative capitalism" - Slowing/retarded/cyclical time of culture.
20:45 - "The banality of the inferno in which we are in." (E.g. constant need to check your phone, even while driving - new death drive: we are risking our lives over the most shocking banality.) (25:03 - "It's typical for teenagers to spend up to an hour composing an SMS text message ... just to ensure they get the right level of nonchalance.")
25:40 - Switch from fordism to post-fordism. → 26:08 - Precarity (Berardi - Bifo). → 26:32 - "Digital communication media have clearly played a major part in intensifying the preassures of precarity." → 26:47 - "It's archaic to even talk about a workplace not. As soon you have e-mail then you no longer have working hours." - This is what MF means by "banal inferno".
27:20 - Atemporality (Bruce Sterling): (27:45) atemporality that is beyond the end of history and also beyond postmodernity. (29:09) Sterling's atemporality is an exaggeration and intensification of the features of post-modernism.
↓
29:29 - Nostalgia mode (Fredric Jameson): emphasis on pastiche and retrospection in post-modernism (as one of characteristics of it). (29:42) Nostalgia mode is not "psychological nostalgia" but a kind of formal nostalgia: (30:14) all of the formal elements (of artwork, film, etc.) are showing different period, but the fact that they (formal elements) came out of different period is not acknowledged.
↓
30:30 - Why "retrospection" and "pastiche" becomes such features [in post-modernity]? (Something Jameson never talks about.) - (1) (30:44) Psychological motivation: reaching for older forms of culture as a form of reassurance.
↓
31:44 - What is the way out of this? → (32:00 "Who is it that owns the sense of time which we live?") → 33:35 - The way out will have to be via precarity. (Who wants to work in a factory for 40 years?) (Berardi and others pointed out that precarity was originally a positive term.) - "How do we get the precariousness that we wanted in the first place?" → 34:40 - "It's a broader problem of winning back time."
I can literally hear the cameraman casting voodoo spells to Mark while he keeps pacing, forcing the poor man to endure an endless, trance-inducing pan from right to left and viceversa
So what if the changes that happened in the 20th century were extraordinary, with every decade overthrowing the previous one culturally and politically? What if that is not what "time" is usually like, what if the centuries experienced by all the people throughout the ages were not always as revolutionary? People fought with swords for thousands of years. They used carts pulled by animals for thousands of years. They used candle light and torches for thousands of years. Mabye we are just nostalgic about the relentless speed of the 20th century because we have a misunderstanding of what time is usually like.
Yes, I had a similar thought. Its clear that the pace of culture change in the 20th century was an anomaly in history, which seemed to have been driven by the development of analog communications technology, radio, tv, and vinyl records (i.e. the 2nd industrial revolution) and then came to a grinding halt with the advent of the digital age (the 3rd industrial revolution). Much of Mark's work focused on the question of why the digital age caused such a dramatic slowdown in the creation of new cultural forms. I don't think anybody has provided a satisfactory answer. In any case, we now stare down the barrel of the brave new world of the 4th industrial revolution. One wonders what horrifying pathologies will manifest from the augmented, cyberized, A.I. controlled society we now enter in to.
That is the usual contraargument. Easy to retort. Look at the statistics about social network usage - especially adolescents - more than 4,5,6 hours per day. Virtually doing anything else is better. Doing nothing, being bored (Fischer would like this) , talking to oneself , reminiscing, doing some imagination ... to think that these activities were the activities of a lazy person is crazy. Now no one is bored , no one is doing nothing. The trick is, that is sometimes the time when good ideas come to the world. Good ideas cannot come when you check your social network for n-th time per day.
I was very dumb back in the day and all I did was hang out with people and smoke weed. But even this seems better than what adolescents are doing now. We actually talked and laughed and forgot about our phones for a while
@@TheRocknrollmaniac I don't really see your point. I even agree that doing "nothing" is better than doing something heteronomous. One of the things I get from Fisher is that our current system is distorting our perception of time.
@@hans1187 That's right, Fisher does talk about time. Heteronomous can be nearly anything, what do you mean by that? Fisher talks about our perception of time but goes further of course. Here he approaches the "progress" critically and rightfully says that any opinion that goes contrary to the one you have : "isn't the current situation of tech zombies just a sign of progress?" is labeled reactionary and anti tech - I am not anti tech, but I am anti-social network as these things have long ago become an economic tool. Each minute you spend there can be monetized. It is thus economically viable to for companies and social networks that receive money from these companies to try and make people stay online as long as possible.
That's what all social networks now do. And they appeal specifically to teens as they still don't have the self control to say : "wow I really don't need to check my phone for 100th time in a day". It's not just the appeal either. It's a very careful strategy based on psychological research - social networks for instance use the so-called regime conditioning where the proportion of reward/no reward is varied to achieve max conditioning (read: addiction).
It is actually anti-progress. Back in the day we believed that the Internet will lead to higher consciousness and maybe even to a sort of collective consciousness. Now we see how wrong we were. This is not higher consciousness, this is the psychology of the masses - but now online. All the makings of psychology of masses are there: loss of individualism, loss of critical reason, loss of self control.
Back in the day they used toothpastes with uranium because uranium was so new and modern and shiny. After a while they realized it kills people. I think this is a much better comparison than the one you mentioned. The Internet is the lighttorch. Compulsive use of social networks is not. We have yet to see the consequences of such a use in kids who spend 7+ hours a day on social networks. Is it surprising that ADHD is on the rise? Is it surprising that we have more and more children's mental health disorders that are essentially "spoled kids syndrome".
@@TheRocknrollmaniac I'm not making a case for social networks or anything that is currently sold as "progress" in my original statement. It's more that it seems what we have lost in the 20th century is exactly this natural understanding of time, to do "nothing", to contemplate, to fill our free time with things that are not dictated externally. Technology plays a part in this most likely. Marks somewhere says that we have to regain our sense of time. I'm not an english speaker so I had to google the translation of "fremdbestimmt" and it came up with "Heteronomous", which would be the opposite of autonomous.
"everything has changed but nothing has really happened"
Watched this on my 📱
Obvs
😬
Nothing wrong with that. Just do not let it get into your day
And: Phenomenology of the end by Bifo is a good book that deals with some of the topics in here.
Thanks!
Fisher on his other lectures: conventionally dressed in mostly black
Fisher in that lecture: rolled out of bed in a red printed tee shirt. Home boy had an intense night before.
Stop making sense
around 2:12 Jerma described it quite well with what became "We're meant to be threshing wheat and dying of smallpox" not i.e. playing ULTRAKILL or anything lol. I guess taking digital technology and cyberspace to its limit has show us how far the human experience can be enhanced by taking this technology to the absolute limit but slowly liberating it perhaps? Postcapitalist desire is becoming far more interesting in the 2020s.
Exactly the person to say what i knew but didnt have the words for. Why did he commit suicide :(
He had depression but he had such an astute sharply accurate view of the world and our impending doom towards late stage capitalism that I suppose the reality of what’s to come was too much for him to bare. He’s definitely a voice for the post ideological millennial generation , a mirror of how fucked up our world is .
thank you.
For some reason he reminds me so much of Terry Jones
@18:00, the "cult of determinism":
It is a forgone conclusion that forcing everyone to be continuously affixed to a handheld computer at all times, simply because it has come into existence, must automatically be a self-justified good, progress, "correct". The underlying assumption being that anything new, if it is technology at least, automatically gets social endorsement, submission to it, simply for now existing. If an even newer technology unfolded which forced everyone into floating pods and proved to 'save the environment'.. well then it MUST be adopted, endorsed, promoted, simply because it didn't exist before and now it does.
"A time of no time"
Excellent talk
‘Nightmare topology’
‘Banal inferno’
Brillante!
@20:50 you can’t enjoy being in a club (or at least the way you used to). From Schoom to Boiler Room.
lol
What is the t-shirt he is wearing?
A red one
Didn’t he opt out of time, completely?
Do you like Huey Lewis and the News?
I really like Fisher but I feel like he underestimated the growth of hip hop as a shift in culture, like, rap was no where big in 96 as it was in 2011 even.
The hip hop of the 2010s is far more watered down and corporatized than the than the 80s and 90s.
I agree with Karl M in that hip hop is now corporate but it has changed from 80s and 90s. Although it’s always been a music genre that sampled heavily from other genres and itself so who knows.
Fisher has commented directly on that issue, he mentions drake and how his music is like an electric downer haze which is clear shift that has been seen across the board in hip hop today.....
Does it matter how ‘big’ it is? I’m not sure that’s what he’s getting at.
And...?
17:00 electro what parasite?
"Electro libidinal parasite". or as he was famous for saying "libeedinal" ;) But he was correct, thats exactly what our electronic devices are.
he is very nervous for the first 1/3 of this
Paul Jones Nothing wrong with being nervous.
Wouldn’t you be nervous if you went ‘round explaining to people that we all have a type of brain-worm that’s eating the planet (and us) alive?
@@hastiestone3951 yes just saying straight into conflict mode
Rip
Can we please release more recoding of virtual futures? Dying to see lands recording
30:32
What a nightmare we live in
Everything has changed and nothing has really happened. Maybe true until about 2016.
на кого ж ти нас покинув?((
Шта кажеш брат ништа те не разумем
i'm dizzy
15:00
30:30
Considering how much worse this has got in the last 10 years is unbearably bleak.
ndt replaces caffeine
lies, texting takes more time than a simple phone call
Terrifying viewpoint.
Why is everyone denying Fisher’s suicide?
yyds
Watching this at 1,5x speed
4:40 a small innacuracy- no one keeps phones in a bag now
This guy is a really huge down or he needs to find Jesus or Budd a.
He's dead.
or stoicism, unfortunately he ended it all before finding such knowledge
@darillus1 stoicism is pro-suicide. Literally the "just kys bro" if life gets too hard philosophy. Either way, Fisher was a philosophy lecturer. I'm sure he had read plenty of Stoic lit during his first year of uni. Also Marcus Aurelius was a cuckold (his wife was having an open affair on him with a gladiator) who spent his life waging wars in Europe that really, in the end, didn't do much for his empire except keep him busy from meddling with it and he raised a sociopath for a son. Why do modern "stoics" keep trying to get the guy taken seriously? Maybe you can answer that.
@darillus1 stoicism is pro offing urself literally the "just k*s bro" if life gets too hard philosophy. Either way, Fisher was a philosophy lecturer. I'm sure he read plenty of stoicism during his first year at uni. Also, Marcus Aurelius was a cuckold (an actual one like his wife was having a well known affair with a gladiator) who spent his reign waging wars of aggression and raised a spoilt sociopath for a son. Why do modern "stoics" keep trying to get the guy taken seriously? Maybe you can answer that.
@@DAVA653 you seem to be referring to Aurelius' bio, rather than his actual philosophy, more over Epictetus would be the one to read, also he could have gained some grounding from Cynicism, honestly anything's better than getting so depressed over capitalism that you what to ended it all
He would have been less depressed had he worked a factory or mine
But no
Write about how life sucks add an capitalist asterisk that's how to fix things
Before saving the world you must first save yourself
Have you been addicted to benzodiazepines lately?
@@gerontion1011 i take them recreationally
Peter Lauch hhahahah man that sounds boring. Anyways I got the same feeling. He squeezes in some complaints about being a professor in the modern world not getting enough money from the gov etc. The life is soo hard soo hard. It is not surprising that this man was depressed. However he is mainly right unfortunately. What he should have mentioned is how his own experience shapes these viewpoints and that in the end this is a very subjective viewpoint from a person who struggles to find meaning in this world - nothing wrong with that , just sayin.
Often the most sensitive and disturbed persons are able to really feel what is going on and to see what will happen. Like Kafka. This guy is not that far, especially when we see that it is getting worse and worse.
Do you like lobsters?