So for 7k you need to buy a new power cord and a conditioner because it “improves the sound so much”. I find that ridiculous, how do you design something, bench test it, did it sound like crap and they said, you know what, we’ll put the word out that you need an after market power cable or else our amp sounds like crap lol
@@TheAlphaAudio Your missing his point . Your analogy of the Ferrari is not a good one His point was Rotel Michi went to all this trouble to re introduce there product back into there high end line years of development ..why does it take a person like you to point out its obvious fault so much for there qualified technicians who spent years to develop this new product into the Hi End market.Maybe they should employ you for the final quality control.and listening test obviously there ears are not good enough 😆 great review.thx ...🎶🎵🙏
Thanks for the review! I enjoyed your laid back presentation. One thing, you stated the amp is like a muscular ballerina, what a fantastic analogy, but if you could have provided the music track(s) where this was evident, that would also be helpful. Newly subscribed and look forward to future reviews. Cheers!
Congratulations. Fortunately, the non duch subscribers have now the opportunity do really have a full understanding. It's wealthy for everyone (I think) that this channel can comunicate to the whole audioplhile world. I do hope that you keep your english reviews with a little bit more depht to it, i.e refering what speakers you used, what music and digging a little bit more in to the specs without beeing to much analitical.
Thanks! Our video's are mostly short and to the point. But our reviews are more in-depth: alpha-audio.net/review/review-rotel-michi-p5-en-s5/ There wil definately be more reviews in English on our channel!
Puritan PSM156 seems to get the best reviews and is also far from the highest price. I also own it and can recommend it. They also produce a range of quality power cables as well (which I also bought).
Thanks for the info. I do have a question if you don't mind. Do they supply you with one or two remote control when you buy the pre and power amp together? Cheers
Well, yes and no. The better / more transparant the product, the better you need to take care or other things 'feeding' it. Think of music, power, acoustics... etc.
@@TheAlphaAudio this is bullshit. You can say that about anything. You should have judged this product on its own terms, rather than throwing in that it sounds average unless you upgrade the power supply. Your channel is deeply untrustworthy, and I'm considering reporting it.
With respect I was very interested in the review and sound comments, but I got concerned when I heard your benchmark is the Pass/Bryston combo. I'm a Canadian, but have never met a Bryston which, beyond sheer brute force, actually made 'music' to my ears. Then again, I am a brit-fi kinda guy (Naim, Chord, etc.) for the most part. I guess my question is, does this combo have the PRaT one would hope for from a top-tier UK set, with the push of a US combo? I am confident in the latter but I'm wondering about the former.
good review! I'm a little confused though, when comparing your video and reading specs and details from Rotel on website. In their manual and brochures, everywhere they write Balanced (XLR) inputs, and in one place they also talk about balanced circuit design. Can you please clarify why they are saying in their documents it's balanced and you mentioned it's not?
Rotel call his design: Balanced design. It's not a balanced circuit though. The 'compnents' are balanced soundwise. There are XLR (Blanaced) Inputs. But the circuit design is not symmetrical or balanced. I get you are confused... it is confusing. But Rotel uses the term balanced a bit differently (marketing).
@@TheAlphaAudio thanks for the reply, so would this get any benefits from using xlr connection, i.e does it implement the noise cancelling feature of xlr connection? thanks.
hello thank you for a informative review....a question if i may, what is the best way to connect a subwoofer to the P5, are the sub outs LFE? or should I enable the filter in my SUBs DSP.??
I have a P5, I have rca pre outs from my receiver, that I have plugged into aux 1 on the P5. I set the volume to 70 on the P5 and it's level matched with the rest of my speakers. No issues what so ever! Hope that helps!
Hybrid Tech home theater bypass means sound is coming from AVR/ processor to P5 input it bypass the circuit of P5 for left and right some preamp including subwoofers
Hybrid Tech this is how parasound P6 describe it Theater Bypass Input The Bypass input jacks are used to incorporate the P 6 into a surround sound system. The Bypass input works by passing the incoming L, R and Sub channels directly through to the L, R and Sub output jacks. None of the P 6 circuits or controls has any effect on the bypassed signals. The P 6 is thus transparent to the Left, Right and Subwoofer(s) outputs from your surround sound processor or receiver and passes them on to your amplifier(s) and Subwoofer(s). In order to use the P 6 Bypass function your surround sound receiver must have line level preamp output jacks. The P 6’s Bypass function is a direct connection between its L, R and Sub Bypass Input jacks and its Main and Sub output jacks. All controls are excluded from the bypass signal path. Adjusting the P 6 Volume will not change the volume level of the Bypass input The Bass and Treble Tone controls do not function; frequency response is flat, regardless of how these controls are adjusted. The Left/Right Balance control does not function; channel balance is equal, regardless of how this control is adjusted. The Main Outputs are full range, regardless of the crossover settings The Sub Outputs are full range, regardless of the crossover settings
You said that Rotel is telling us that single-ended is better than balanced because it's the purist path. Why is it that they designed P5 preamp with an output impedance of RCA (470 ohm) and XLR (100 ohm) ? Plus the S5 amp has an input impedance of RCA (12k ohm) and XLR (100k ohm). Amp/preamp ratio for RCA is approx. 25 and 1000 for XLR. No comparison. I would never use RCA if I were to purchase the Michi components.
TheAlphaAudio Amazing. So the balanced inputs on the Michi S5 are merely there for convenience, and the actual design topology is not balanced. For $7000 USD this is unacceptable. I feel bad for anyone who paid even close to full retail. Rotel was clearly out of their depth here. Some other extremely worrisome things. No published power specs under 4ohms. This is am obvious sign the amp will begin to run out of juice at or under 2ohm loads. Use of fans for cooling. With the massive size, they could and should have machined aluminum or steel heat sinks of more considerable size instead of relying on fans. I think this is a clear indication the basic topology of the amp was not well though out.
@@relyt559 , certainly the Michi amp isn't perfect , but for the money you're getting a lot of value. It's not fully balanced , but that doesn't mean it's going to sound any worse than another amp that is balanced. Even the regular Rotel amps are very quiet. I'm not a huge enthusiast for fans either , but I'm sure they seldom come into operation anyway. This thing already weighs 60 kg. , more heatsinks would have turned it into a complete back-breaker. As far as 2ohm loading is concerned , it probably can't stay constantly at this level , however with 188,000 microfarads and 2.4 KVA toroid (Monoblock) I'm sure it will give you all the peaks and transients that you will have at 2ohms. I'm using Bryston right now , but the Michi is intriguing. I can't buy it now because it's still out of reach in price. I don't think you're going to get a better amp for the money.
Daniele Sbordone I think the reason why someone buys an amp like this is because their loudspeaker demands it. The fact it has a lot of capacitors and a huge tordial transformer does not mean that it will not be susceptible to overheating issues which is going to be the main problem here. I would not be surprised if this amp powers off when trying to do sustained 2ohm loads. Not to mention the fans kicking in and being loud. Like I said, people buy beefy amps for their stability into low impedances for use with speaker designs that need the power. I won’t even begin to go into why I think current crazy speaker designs are bad, but they are flawed designed imo as well. Think Wilson’s, or some older line array type speaker. In particular, Wilson Sasha have disgusting 45 degree phase angle and 0.7ohm impedance dip from 80-300hz, this amp will just turn off if you tried to play anything modern. Oh and when something like Mcintosh MC462 exists, this amp has no business being as large and bulky as it is. If one needs power, go for Krell. Krell knows how to do class AB right.
@@relyt559 , true , the Mac is a more stable amp at 2 ohms , but if you encounter 0.7 ohms like you said then even the mc462 will find itself in difficulty. However , if you get a chance , listen to the Michi . I'm sure you'll like it.
So the balanced inputs on the Michi S5 are merely there for convenience, and the actual design topology is not balanced. For $7000 USD this is unacceptable. I feel bad for anyone who paid even close to full retail. Rotel was clearly out of their depth here. Some other extremely worrisome things. No published power specs under 4ohms. This is am obvious sign the amp will begin to run out of juice at or under 2ohm loads. Use of fans for cooling. With the massive size, they could and should have machined aluminum or steel heat sinks of more considerable size instead of relying on fans. I think this is a clear indication the basic topology of the amp was not well though out. When you have product like the MC462 existing that is capable of delivering rated power of 450W into 2ohm loads, plus brief peaks of almost 2kW for brief moments of dynamic content in music, it is a no brainer, at least to me, what the better buy is.
The MC 462 has a bright signature and looks like its from the 80's. In my opinion Michi's sound better than McIntosh (with my ATC speakers). If you want to know 2ohm specs (rarely bothered with) just contact Michi, don't assume. And as for design, do you honestly think you know better than them to produce a better sound? They spend millions on product development and get great reviews from the pickiest critics. You sound like a MC fanboy.
@@richarddegannes2928 Better is subjective. ATC is a studio brand. So it's very neutral sounding. The active Bowers and KEF-models are more consumer orientated. So it depends on your definition of 'Better'. Michi is build in Japan I believe.
Thats true to extent. I've been told these are basically a Chinese mcintosh without the autoformer. But at same time some of the other aspects of the circuitry might have different components that could possibly make it as good or better...possibly
Because this with the pre amp is 22% cheaper WITH the phono stage, DAC and Bluetooth built in. For just the amp, it's LESS than half the price of the Mc. You could literally buy the monoblock PAIR and still have a money left over to go towards your pre amp. Some also want something that doesn't look like it was designed and built in the 70s. Oh, and the back of the Michi clearly states 4ohm minimum(your other comment on this video)
Thank you for the english review!
Welcome! More to come! Check alpha-audio.net for all reviews.
Brilliant -thanks for the effort in doing them in English also from now on! Greetings from Argentina.
Thanks a lot, we really appreciate your efforts for the english videos.
Welcome man!
Wow! I love the display on the amp. Love the look of these .
Thank you for providing an English version. Very informative.
It's great to have english versions.... Thank you.
Many thanks for the English version! 👍
So for 7k you need to buy a new power cord and a conditioner because it “improves the sound so much”. I find that ridiculous, how do you design something, bench test it, did it sound like crap and they said, you know what, we’ll put the word out that you need an after market power cable or else our amp sounds like crap lol
So your Ferrari drives the same and just ast fast on a bumpy road as it does on some smooth race-grade tarmac?
@@TheAlphaAudio Your missing his point .
Your analogy of the Ferrari is not a good one
His point was Rotel Michi went to all this trouble to re introduce there product back into there high end line years of development ..why does it take a person like you to point out its obvious fault so much for there qualified technicians who spent years to develop this new product into the Hi End market.Maybe they should employ you for the final quality control.and listening test obviously there ears are not good enough 😆 great review.thx ...🎶🎵🙏
Nice review. Thank you for this English version.
Welcome!
Thank you for the review from Canada. It helped me look at Michi brand.
Welcome!
Now they need to come out with a matching CD/SACD player and we are all set!
Thanks for the review! I enjoyed your laid back presentation. One thing, you stated the amp is like a muscular ballerina, what a fantastic analogy, but if you could have provided the music track(s) where this was evident, that would also be helpful. Newly subscribed and look forward to future reviews. Cheers!
Thank you Jack! We are definately going to use samples in future reviews. We need some good tracks that will not be blocked. But we are working in it!
Great review! Mine are being shipped now!!! Cannot wait.
Have fun! Very nice combo
Congratulations. Fortunately, the non duch subscribers have now the opportunity do really have a full understanding. It's wealthy for everyone (I think) that this channel can comunicate to the whole audioplhile world. I do hope that you keep your english reviews with a little bit more depht to it, i.e refering what speakers you used, what music and digging a little bit more in to the specs without beeing to much analitical.
Thanks! Our video's are mostly short and to the point. But our reviews are more in-depth:
alpha-audio.net/review/review-rotel-michi-p5-en-s5/
There wil definately be more reviews in English on our channel!
Thanks from Australia.
I'm more than likely going to invest in this combo. I might have to look up 'power cable filter', I'm unfamiliar with that
Me too.
Puritan PSM156 seems to get the best reviews and is also far from the highest price. I also own it and can recommend it. They also produce a range of quality power cables as well (which I also bought).
Thanks a lot for reviewing in English ---- this universal Hi-Fi language.
My best regards from a COVID-19 terrified Brazil.
Mooie video en een goed review van hoogstaand audio/HiFi.
Hi , would you be able to do an in-depth review of the Michi x5.
We will!
@@TheAlphaAudio Looking forward to it!
You said you can't turn the display off, but when you were scrolling the menu, there was an option called Off. What was that for?
Wondering how the new RA 1592-MKII compares to the Michi series. Would love to see someone review them when they're shipped!
Great video!
Thanks for the info. I do have a question if you don't mind. Do they supply you with one or two remote control when you buy the pre and power amp together? Cheers
A bit bizar that you do need to buy an extra powerhouse and powerconditioner otherwise the sound is not that great.
Well, yes and no. The better / more transparant the product, the better you need to take care or other things 'feeding' it. Think of music, power, acoustics... etc.
TheAlphaAudio Music, acoustics, power ok. But components that are part of the hardware like powercabels should be fine by itself.
@@TheAlphaAudio this is bullshit. You can say that about anything. You should have judged this product on its own terms, rather than throwing in that it sounds average unless you upgrade the power supply. Your channel is deeply untrustworthy, and I'm considering reporting it.
@@ReggaeSpijkenisse You need to learn a bit about power.
@@UKTonyMagill You too need to learn about power, and take a chill pill.
Great review!!!! 😃
Haha... thanks!
This combo P5 + S5 is fantastic... I own one
Have you used the P5 with a different amp?
@@livinaftermidnight9651 yes.. With Parasound A21
Nice amplifier
@@florinlastun1417
Good to know as I have a pair of A23's
With respect I was very interested in the review and sound comments, but I got concerned when I heard your benchmark is the Pass/Bryston combo. I'm a Canadian, but have never met a Bryston which, beyond sheer brute force, actually made 'music' to my ears. Then again, I am a brit-fi kinda guy (Naim, Chord, etc.) for the most part. I guess my question is, does this combo have the PRaT one would hope for from a top-tier UK set, with the push of a US combo? I am confident in the latter but I'm wondering about the former.
Michi is totally different from NAIM. Michi is more focused on detail, rather than PRaT...
@@TheAlphaAudio thank you. Naim isn't exactly shy on detail. I'm having a hard time getting an idea what this would compare to. Big chord? Spl?
good review!
I'm a little confused though, when comparing your video and reading specs and details from Rotel on website. In their manual and brochures, everywhere they write Balanced (XLR) inputs, and in one place they also talk about balanced circuit design. Can you please clarify why they are saying in their documents it's balanced and you mentioned it's not?
Rotel call his design: Balanced design. It's not a balanced circuit though. The 'compnents' are balanced soundwise.
There are XLR (Blanaced) Inputs. But the circuit design is not symmetrical or balanced.
I get you are confused... it is confusing. But Rotel uses the term balanced a bit differently (marketing).
@@TheAlphaAudio thanks for the reply,
so would this get any benefits from using xlr connection, i.e does it implement the noise cancelling feature of xlr connection?
thanks.
hello thank you for a informative review....a question if i may, what is the best way to connect a subwoofer to the P5, are the sub outs LFE? or should I enable the filter in my SUBs DSP.??
We haven't tried that. So I'm sorry, but I can't answer that. Maybe your dealer can help out?
The P5 looks very similar to the internals of the rc1590 - but I’m assuming they are worlds apart in performance?
Yes... you can't compare those...
Rotel very good
Great reviews thanks
One question
Does Michi P5 support home theater bypass?
Yes it does. There is a bypass option in the menu.
I have a P5, I have rca pre outs from my receiver, that I have plugged into aux 1 on the P5. I set the volume to 70 on the P5 and it's level matched with the rest of my speakers. No issues what so ever! Hope that helps!
Hybrid Tech home theater bypass means sound is coming from AVR/ processor to P5 input it bypass the circuit of P5 for left and right some preamp including subwoofers
Hybrid Tech this is how parasound P6 describe it Theater Bypass Input
The Bypass input jacks are used to incorporate the P 6 into a surround sound system. The Bypass input works by passing the incoming L, R and Sub channels directly through to the L, R and Sub output jacks. None of the P 6 circuits or controls has any effect on the bypassed signals. The P 6 is thus transparent to the Left, Right and Subwoofer(s) outputs from your surround sound processor or receiver and passes them on to your amplifier(s) and Subwoofer(s). In order to use the P 6 Bypass function your surround sound receiver must have line level preamp output jacks.
The P 6’s Bypass function is a direct connection between its L, R and Sub Bypass Input jacks and its Main and Sub output jacks. All controls are excluded from the bypass signal path.
Adjusting the P 6 Volume will not change the volume level of the Bypass input
The Bass and Treble Tone controls do not function; frequency response is flat,
regardless of how these controls are adjusted.
The Left/Right Balance control does not function; channel balance is equal, regardless of how this control is adjusted.
The Main Outputs are full range, regardless of the crossover settings
The Sub Outputs are full range, regardless of the crossover settings
That's all correct, but in their manual you'll find no mention of a 'home theater bypass'. So i described how I accomplished it.
Beast 👍🏻
Hello there what power supply/filter/cables are you useing for the Michi...Thanks..
No filter. AQ nrg1000 power cable.
You said that Rotel is telling us that single-ended is better than balanced because it's the purist path. Why is it that they designed P5 preamp with an output impedance of RCA (470 ohm) and XLR (100 ohm) ? Plus the S5 amp has an input impedance of RCA (12k ohm) and XLR (100k ohm). Amp/preamp ratio for RCA is approx. 25 and 1000 for XLR. No comparison. I would never use RCA if I were to purchase the Michi components.
I dont know why. I am Just saying what Rotel said to me... The design is not symmetrical. That is all I know and see.
TheAlphaAudio Amazing. So the balanced inputs on the Michi S5 are merely there for convenience, and the actual design topology is not balanced. For $7000 USD this is unacceptable. I feel bad for anyone who paid even close to full retail. Rotel was clearly out of their depth here.
Some other extremely worrisome things. No published power specs under 4ohms. This is am obvious sign the amp will begin to run out of juice at or under 2ohm loads. Use of fans for cooling. With the massive size, they could and should have machined aluminum or steel heat sinks of more considerable size instead of relying on fans. I think this is a clear indication the basic topology of the amp was not well though out.
@@relyt559 , certainly the Michi amp isn't perfect , but for the money you're getting a lot of value. It's not fully balanced , but that doesn't mean it's going to sound any worse than another amp that is balanced. Even the regular Rotel amps are very quiet. I'm not a huge enthusiast for fans either , but I'm sure they seldom come into operation anyway. This thing already weighs 60 kg. , more heatsinks would have turned it into a complete back-breaker.
As far as 2ohm loading is concerned , it probably can't stay constantly at this level , however with 188,000 microfarads and 2.4 KVA toroid (Monoblock) I'm sure it will give you all the peaks and transients that you will have at 2ohms. I'm using Bryston right now , but the Michi is intriguing. I can't buy it now because it's still out of reach in price. I don't think you're going to get a better amp for the money.
Daniele Sbordone I think the reason why someone buys an amp like this is because their loudspeaker demands it. The fact it has a lot of capacitors and a huge tordial transformer does not mean that it will not be susceptible to overheating issues which is going to be the main problem here. I would not be surprised if this amp powers off when trying to do sustained 2ohm loads. Not to mention the fans kicking in and being loud.
Like I said, people buy beefy amps for their stability into low impedances for use with speaker designs that need the power. I won’t even begin to go into why I think current crazy speaker designs are bad, but they are flawed designed imo as well. Think Wilson’s, or some older line array type speaker. In particular, Wilson Sasha have disgusting 45 degree phase angle and 0.7ohm impedance dip from 80-300hz, this amp will just turn off if you tried to play anything modern.
Oh and when something like Mcintosh MC462 exists, this amp has no business being as large and bulky as it is. If one needs power, go for Krell. Krell knows how to do class AB right.
@@relyt559 , true , the Mac is a more stable amp at 2 ohms , but if you encounter 0.7 ohms like you said then even the mc462 will find itself in difficulty. However , if you get a chance , listen to the Michi . I'm sure you'll like it.
Yessss!!!! You can turn The display off
:-)
So the balanced inputs on the Michi S5 are merely there for convenience, and the actual design topology is not balanced. For $7000 USD this is unacceptable. I feel bad for anyone who paid even close to full retail. Rotel was clearly out of their depth here.
Some other extremely worrisome things. No published power specs under 4ohms. This is am obvious sign the amp will begin to run out of juice at or under 2ohm loads. Use of fans for cooling. With the massive size, they could and should have machined aluminum or steel heat sinks of more considerable size instead of relying on fans. I think this is a clear indication the basic topology of the amp was not well though out.
When you have product like the MC462 existing that is capable of delivering rated power of 450W into 2ohm loads, plus brief peaks of almost 2kW for brief moments of dynamic content in music, it is a no brainer, at least to me, what the better buy is.
The MC 462 has a bright signature and looks like its from the 80's. In my opinion Michi's sound better than McIntosh (with my ATC speakers). If you want to know 2ohm specs (rarely bothered with) just contact Michi, don't assume. And as for design, do you honestly think you know better than them to produce a better sound? They spend millions on product development and get great reviews from the pickiest critics. You sound like a MC fanboy.
Which power treatment did you use with this amp?
Isotek Titan.
Hello, What is your honest opinion on ATC active speakers? Thanks.
We are always honest. ATC active is very good in my opinion. Heard a couple of them. Never disapointed.
@@TheAlphaAudio Thanks for reaching out. Would you say they are better than B&W and KEF speakers? Where are these Michi's built?
@@richarddegannes2928 Better is subjective. ATC is a studio brand. So it's very neutral sounding. The active Bowers and KEF-models are more consumer orientated. So it depends on your definition of 'Better'.
Michi is build in Japan I believe.
👍👍
What amp is the most rifind ? I
Compared to what?
Oof. Why would you buy this when McIntosh MC462 exist 😔
Well... both sound excellent. It's a matter of taste and match I guess.
Thats true to extent. I've been told these are basically a Chinese mcintosh without the autoformer. But at same time some of the other aspects of the circuitry might have different components that could possibly make it as good or better...possibly
Because this with the pre amp is 22% cheaper WITH the phono stage, DAC and Bluetooth built in.
For just the amp, it's LESS than half the price of the Mc.
You could literally buy the monoblock PAIR and still have a money left over to go towards your pre amp.
Some also want something that doesn't look like it was designed and built in the 70s.
Oh, and the back of the Michi clearly states 4ohm minimum(your other comment on this video)
Better in English 😁
spanish bro. lol