Star Wars fans are lying to you.
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 26. 06. 2024
- On the return of the Sith in Star Wars The Acolyte Episode 5.
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Obi Wan: "How did this happen? We're smarter than this"
Anakin: "Apparently not"
The level of discussion is extremely sad. Even the GoT fans seem sane in comparison to us.
the GoT fans were united in their disappointment the Star Wars fandom has been extremely divided since The Last Jedi
GoT fans are eating good lately.
Kings and General jumpscare
Honestly, the acolyte is not a perfect series, but the amount of bad faith hate out there is insane.
Yep. It's wild how many SW "fans" are out there, ready to hate this series no matter what.
I mean, it's got some issues, but it's a long way from the Woke, canon-breaking disaster some people are pretending it is.
EL: "Star Wars fans are lying to you."
EL: "It's me, I'm lying to you >:)"
The only thing i can think of goes back to the original Star Wars Clone Wars 2003 animated series.
"The dark side is strong in me, for i am Sith."
"Ha ha ha ha! A bold claim, but you are not Sith." Fucking floats down to the ground. "You wear the trappings of the sith, you fight like the sith but this can be imitated, however... you lack a vital quality found in all sith, sith have no fear."
Problem: this contradicts George Lucas himself. All sith have fear. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hatred, hatred leads to suffering. This is the road to the dark side. The hierarchy of canon is movies > tv shows > games and books, aka the EU. If something in the movies contradicts it, the movies take precedence
@@SuperGoose42 Dooku could also have just been wrong. One could argue that he himself was not true Sith because Palpatine never intended him to be a long-term apprentice, just a stop-gap until Anakin was ready.
â@SuperGoose42 this was exactly what I was thinking. A blatant lie considering it's like their fundamental fuel
I don't really get the issue with this slow floating drop. Didn't Dooku do something similar in the Clone Wars cartoons? We have also seen it in games, plus force users can literally throw heavy rocks at each other etc. To me it seems plausible that they could control their decent using force powers. Seems overly nit picky to me. The show still sucks, but I just don't get this gripe.
What's the difference between a Dark Jedi and a Dark Lord of the Sith? It's not really that consistent. It could be the species Sith. It could be a place called Sith. It could be a throwaway reference to the Cait Sith of...Irish and Celtic mythology? Really? At one point that was Egyptian mythology. Whatever...@SuperGoose42 I think you need to consider the phrase 'leads to'. Darth Vader, Palpatine, and Maul generally had more of an anger, glee, and disappointment thing going on. Not fear.
I seem to remember the old RedLetterMedia had a point about that line, too. Hatred can lead to anger which can lead to suffering which can lead to fear. It wasn't the best line.
Four things can happen:
Sol can be silenced: most likely by death, but possibly by capture or being marooned on some backwater planet.
Sol can be converted.
Sol can become convinced that what he was facing was not in fact a Sith, but perhaps some sort of dark side offshoot from some force wielding organization, be it the Jedi or something else.
Sol can be⊠less than convincing. He can make it all the way back to Coruscant and still fail to be believed by the Jedi, including Ki Adi Mundi somehow. One possibility is that Mae or Oshi ultimately reveals what the Jedi had actually done on Brendock, intentionally or inadvertently convincing the Jedi Order that Sol was behind the murders with his former apprentice, and that he manufactured the existence of the âSithâ to hide his murder of the other Jedi who had been assigned to join in searching for Kelnacca.
If he is stranded off in wild space or something on forgotten planets like zakuul, sol is absolutely fucked.
My read of Sol so far has been that he's being positioned as a Qui-Gon-like figure within the Order. He's a bit too freethinking and independent for some of the more austere members of the Council, who feel that he's too quick to commit to his own pet theories without consulting other Masters.
Much like Qui-Gon fully committed to the theory that Anakin was the "chosen one," which made the Council uncomfortable to the point that their gut reaction was that training Anakin was a bad idea, I wonder if Sol will quickly commit to the idea that Qimir represents a major threat and possible evidence that the Sith have survived, while the Council will prefer to view him as a freak anomaly whose existence shouldn't be advertised.
We have to keep in mind, this is an era in which the Jedi have been a major unchallenged political power in the universe for ~900 years. One of the points of the show is going to be laying the groundwork for the sort of hubris that would lead to their downfall a century later. What better way to highlight this than by having them discover the truth right in front of their face and then ultimately refuse to see it because it was politically inconvenient? It's actually kind of perfect (assuming that's the route they take).
@@woojoow It is, but how much do you want to bet is will not go well over the fandom is that is what happens? The last episode of the show is arguably good especially when compared to the three previous parts, but that didn't stop the social media blast continuing to roast the show, despite the good elements. Some aspects of this show are going to be done well if not already, and its going to be overshadowed and lost to the hate storm that has brewed.
If we are not JUST talking about the show, Disney has royally f*cked up and they have earned what is coming. If we are only talking about the show with no outside influence, I do not believe it is AS BAD as it has been made out to be. Ep 3 is the weakest IMO. EP 1 and 2 got me intrigued at the very least, even if not perfect. Ep 4 to me was good content all around. I just don't think any amount of continued "good" content can cover up and calm down the hole Disney has dug itself into.
It is bad enough now that I am refusing to take any further part in their content after the end of the Acolyte. Arguably I should cut the subscription off now but eh... already paid for the next month and I want to see how the show ends. So I might as well wrap this up and cut it off afterword. It won't change anything in terms of what I paid.
The Jedi would never just murder a bunch of people, even witches
honestly hoping Sol gets converted, despite the shitty writing I feel this would not make up for all of it but it'd be a cool concept in a way to see how he falls to the dark side and how Leslie makes him die.
Wait⊠iâm a Star Wars fan
Stop lying to me!
@@Rakshasaka Beat me to it!
@@Rakshasaka i canât! uh rey is a well-written character, keanu reeves is a bad person-
Same sorry
*scratches face*
Okay. What kind of Star Wars fan are you?
It's always people who haven't read the expanded universe.
Plagueis also mentions at the start of the book that there are literal Sith-pretenders running around during this era. He might not be one of the "True Sith".
@@Gadrun He couldnât be then because if Sol survives to make the Jedi Order aware then theyâd carry out a full and proper investigation into whether this individual is a legitimate Sith or not.
8:01 "the Jedi can see somebody with a red lightsaber and not immediately jump to the Sith returning"
Exactly. This was literally what happened in the Phantom Menace. The Jedi Council thought Maul wasn't a Sith.
Yes, but Darth Maul also had cookies. Only Sith lords deal in cookies.
The entire point of this video was to show that people are looking at The Acolyte and saying its lore breaking for having a character with a red lightsaber, when that happened a multitude of times in Legends and nobody complains. If you're going to call The Acolyte lore-breaking for that reason, then you will have to do the same for all of the stories from Legends with dark jedi with red lightsabers. It's not a defense of Acolyte, just calling out how people's biases against the show have led to kinda dumb accusations of breaking the lore. Again, not a defense, I think Eck would def agree that the character writing, pacing, and set pieces are the worst offenders of the series, not the appearance of a Sith.
â@@bluehero-96 the jedi should had used NORD VPN
@@Fiddlefiddle5000-qv1lyyes
Why did they flip into believing he was one? It's not like they sat down with him and asked what his beliefs were.
In the clone wars series, the Jedi literally found out that Dooku (well known Sith at the time) helped create the clone army. The Jedi then decided to cover it up in hopes that the war will end quickly and the problem will resolve itself. The idea that Jedi canât lie is so childish
@@wjack89
Sure the Jedi could lie , but an event as massive as several Jedi being killed in a short amount of time is much too difficult to cover up , without at least a few other individuals even outside the order asking questions.
Don't try to bring in Dave Filoni to save this show.
He's got his own problems, one of which is that scene and being told he was Darth Tyranus.
Dooku wasnt a Sith. No Sith eyes, name is Count Dooku not Darth Dooku, also he was compassionate and understanding. Not very Sith like
@@zaab-yaoh9302 Thatâs because his Sith Title and his name are different. Do you think Darth Sidious was born Sidious?
Dookuâs Sith title is Darth Tyranis as confirmed in Episode 2.
@@spacedragon4478nowhere near as big as covering up the clone army
" the sith became corrupt" how do you corrupt something that is itself corruption? Or am I missing something here?
That's why it didn't work out.
The idea was that as a sith you shouldn't share power. There should be a master to hone the power and apprentice to learn it. Thus creating a stronger generation of Sith in each generation. There's also the concept that less individuals tapping into the dark side of the force the greater in power those few individuals will become.
Weak and prone to infighting and petty squabbling is what he means.
Somewhere a Sith Lord has rediscovered his empathy and compassion and uses his unnatural dark side powers to provide free healthcare to the poor.
@@Punishthefalse in legends there was a sith lord named Darth Vectivus who was basically a chill dude who studied the dark side and its secrets but lived with his family and never tried to conquer the galaxy. He was not exactly "good" per se but he can be considered the closest a sith can be to a "nice guy"
I'm still not convinced that we're even dealing with Sith. In fact, I have a rather bold prediction. I think that at the end, one of the true sith will appear and Kill the one who calls him himself Sith.
One can hope. Qimir doesn't really seem like a master.
That would make more sense, since there is no way he doesn't break the rule of two which Ecks conveniently didn't address.
Regardless of being a sith or not Qimir fits the Jedi standard of being a sith so the fact they have not called him such is moronic
Like sidious showing up on mandalore to wreck maul's shit
My theory is that it turns out he's the current Sith apprentice and he's looking for his own apprentice. He isn't a fan of rules as he said a couple of different times, so him breaking the Rule of Two by looking for his own apprentice would fit. Will the current Sith master show up? Maybe. But if they do, Sol and the twins will likely all end up dead.
Actually the Plageuis book hints at how Yoda could know about the Rule of Two because they mention in that book of one of the Bane line of Sith (specifically one of the last that knew of essence transfer) turned back to the Jedi and told them some info before he was killed by the Sith again. Not so much an inconsistency as an obscure reference added after the fact.
I mean that's how probably how they know the rule of 2 exists right? It doesn't mean they know there's still sith active in the galaxy
@@JJJBunney001 Im talking about Yodas line at Qui Gons funeral where he states the Rule of Two, not the whole Sith existing bit
@@thatzachguy76 Then that would mean Yoda knew that Maul was a Sith and knew that the Sith still existed. This brings up the question of why didn't they send 20 Jedi to capture Maul and find out who his master was.
Yeah, in the film he could be referencing something he heard ages ago. The Rule of Two is literally "There must always be two, no more and no less. One to embody the power, the other to crave it." Or something like that
@@TugiFox Which means he knows about the Baneite Sith and their grand plan.
Meaning they would be wary of people like palpatine.
I mean, in the Phantom Menace itself Qui-gon Jin flat-out says he saw a Sith and Ki-Adi-Mundi just doubts it. How many other times this may have happened before? A Jedi encounters a Sith, survive, reports to their superiors, only for them to doubt it's a Sith, start some investigation and never learn the truth?
Also it makes sense that Ki-Adi-Mundi would doubt it because he wasn't alive during the Acolyte.
These two encounters are just not the same.
In Maul's scenario the Council doesn't know anything except that a male zabrak warrior with a red lightsaber, most likely pursuing the Queen, dueled Qui-Gon for 30 seconds. There are so many things he could be in their eyes: assassin, dark Jedi, mercenary, etc. They don't know ANYTHING about him other than he's deadly with the lightsaber.
Qimir's scenario provides much more information: a Jedi search team in pursuit of a confirmed Jedi killer discovers a powerful dark side user that butchers MULTIPLE JEDI with ease and straight up tells Sol to call him a Sith. There's no excuse for the Jedi to not think it's anything other than the return of the Sith.
The Acolyte is breaking the lore with this. Badly.
@@acrane3496 the jedi are stupid... from a certain point of view.
Actual Ki Adi Mundi is the only secondary cast jedi in the trilogy to have more than one scene, and they are all to show the hubris and blindness of the jedi. He and Jocasta Nu represent the prevailing attitude of the jedi order - short sighted and dogmatic. So yes, if every couple of hundred years someone says "I fought a sith" they probably do say "the sith have been extinct for a millennia!"
@@xxTheTruMan196 did you watch the video because, until the story is over you really can't say it's breaking the lore. besides, lore flexes and stretches all the time, and sometimes characters are just wrong. If we took every line this seriously, we'd say padme dying in childbirth "breaks lore badly" because leia says she remembers her real mother. nobody talks about that anymore. The franchise survived.
@@xxTheTruMan196 I'm not comparing the two scenarios specifically, I'm just saying that there could be encounters with Sith reported to the Council but the lack of evidence just leaves doubt about the nature of said Sith.
As for The Acolyte's story, it's still ongoing, but already we have a single survivor and we don't know how this story is going to end.
I also hate the people focusing on the lore being the issue when its the actual writing, acting and directing that is the real problems.
Exactly. The continuity of the prequels is not broken, it's just the shtty dialogue that throws me off
@@Christopher-ye3ykshitty dialogue that was one of the many problems with the prequelsâŠ.. it makes me wonder if thatâs a deliberate stylistic choice to emulate the prequelsâŠ..
@@Christopher-ye3yknot to be an asshole, but the dialogue, is something you have problems with when 90% of Star Wars is filled with shitty dialogue?
This is the main problem. There have been other media out there that change lore or canon, but it's accepted because the writing was good and actually makes sense. This is just drivel and nonsense.
@@TearDownGenesis
Yeah , the show on its own is not too good tbh.
It is interesting how much people bring up the red lightsaber as a sign Qui-gon uses to determine that Maul was a Sith. In both the Phantom Menace and the Dooku story from Tales of the Jedi, Qui-gon never brought up the fact the Maulâs lightsaber was red. Qui-gon simply said that Maul had been trained in the way of the Jedi and that he had attacked Qui-gon. These facts are what led Qui-gon to believe that Maul was a Sith Lord.
I don't think Qui-Gon ever said Maul was a Sith Lord, but I remember wrong that he only identified him as a Sith. But yes, the Lightsaber color was not a factor.
I mean, before the events of Phantom Menace, in Legends, the Jedi Order had to face Dark Jedi and other problems so it makes sense about the red lightsaber.
@@AW-ix5qgwatch the movies. He says it. But I guess that doesnât matter only you opinion lol
âââ@@davidring681No he doesn't, I just watched the scene and it's not there.
But I guess that doesn't matter only you opinion lol
Lightsaber colour would have been a possible hint...its rare for a Jedi to have Red but not impossible. My guess would be a combination of Mauls ferocious lightsaber styles, any Sith Traditions in Combat that may have been displayed, the Probe droid Qui Gon cut down in deleted footage...basically a lit of context clues
The real issue here is that in the Phantom Menace, Qui-Gon sees and fights Maul, says that he has "training in the Jedi arts", and concludes from this alone that he's a Sith and the Sith have returned. The core of the conversation here is that the standard of evidence Qui-Gon is using is incredibly low, so if anybody else meets that standard, the Jedi shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility.
Thatâs not the only thing that led him to that conclusion, but go off I guess.
@@jacobbecklehimer7781 Oh? What else leads him to that conclusion?
I was about to make this comment. Totally agree.
Yoda probably learned about the rule of two from a sith holocron.
1:08 âItâs Weird to focus on the Lore.â
My dude, thatâs all you and this channel is about! Talking about all of the obscure ass lore of this franchise!!! đđ€Ł
Hold on. I don't think it follows that the Jedi would just see "dark side user" plus "red lightsaber" and think "anything but Sith" unless the Sith identified himself as a Sith.
After all, Qui-Gon fought a dark side user with a red lightsaber on Tatooine. Darth Maul never gave his name nor called himself a Sith. And yet, Qui-Gon saw that and came to the conclusion of "Sith" anyway. Not a Dark Jedi. Not some sinister other unknown order. A Sith.
I don't know alot about star wars but it seems like people in their reasoning seem to forget that the jedi see things differently thanks to the force compared to that of regular person.
Exactly. Multiple weak arguments in this video.
I feel like people have been ignoring the fact that they said in the show, that they were not going to inform the high council of what was occurring. So far we have no clue if this information ever escapes the event occurring. If the council finds out then I would be irritated but I donât think that will happen.
So many dying jedi would resonate in the force. It would be felt as in the movies.
@@Beatricia1 Not necessarily, if you're talking about Ep III then that was thousands of Jedi all dying at once. 8 Jedi dying on some far away planet won't resonate that far. hundreds of times more people than that probably die each day in SW universe.
@@Beatricia1 but at this time there were 10,000 Jedi, during the clone wars their numbers were far smaller so the loss was extraordinarily noticeable.
Vanestra chooses to hide from the Council that Osha(a former padawan) is a suspect in the murder of a Jedi master, due to their "political enemies." Evidence of the Sith existing would strengthen the Jedi's political power.
Look man, we got a sadistic Sith Lord, clad in Cortosis, moves like a snake, can project himself into his apprenticeâs mind, AND finally we get to see someone GO BACK AND PICK UP THEIR CLOAK. My god I know this is stupid, but Jedi always be leaving their shit everywhere.
Point is, this show is giving me what I want from a Sith Lord.
for real, as many problems there may be overall, hes badass
Just because the character says he's a sith, doesn't mean he is. He could just be a strong dark force user who heard tales of the sith and wants to be one.
The fact that every Jedi who sees the Sith Lord or even knows about him in The Acolyte has to die to preserve canon makes it so there's no point in caring about any of them
When it comes to Sol reporting the sith, they can handle (most likely) in one of two ways.
1: He dies before successfully retelling the events.
2: Vernestra silences him and prevents the spread of information relating to the sith returning. There are still promotional footage of her that hasn't been in the show yet, of her wielding the lightwhip. It is still possible the Jedi remain "unaware" about the Sith with Sol reporting his findings.
They could also combine the two, who knows.
Or he speaks Korean and no one understands him
I think, in a nutshell, people are not used to the 'unrelable narrator. And so they think that everybody a character said is THE truth.
The culture war brainrot has destroyed media literacy. If you have zero critical thinking skills and you've had it drilled into your empty head over and over that the arts only exist to spread propaganda, suddenly everything that happens in a story that you disagree with MUST have been intended as a personal slight against you - even when the story is bending over backward to explain to the audience that the statements being made and the person making them are very obviously flawed.
Didnt it literally take count dooku to confirm there is a sith master controlling everything for the jedi council to fully believe the sith had returned?
I'm going to have to rewatch, but it seemed like the Jedi council was willing to bury/dismiss certain rumors to protect their image. A Sith lord with a red saber and unlocked holocron could kick in the temple door, and all the public would get is 'nothing to see here, folks... move along.'
I think there's a lot of room for discussion about the odd encounter with a Force user who wields a red lightsaber having the occasional contact with the Jedi order. I will agree that the meeting of these two forces doesn't automatically invalidate the popular thinking of the Jedi council in TPM.
One slight counterpoint is that Lucas always thought that his creations were A-level canon and everything else that he wasn't directly in was B-level canon. Where Legends contradict the movies or the animated series, then we would go with the movies.
But even apart from the Lucas-canon argument, I think the difference with this show is the scale and scope. You have multiple high-level Jedi being killed in a systematic manner by a user who they know works with the Dark side. Even if Sol is unable to communicate to the Jedi, they'll still have an entire task force of Jedi being wiped out by some entity.
I know the show will go with a coverup explanation of some sort (which I am not particularly fond of),, but I'm fairly certain the deaths of 7 or so Jedi would cause some concern. Jedi generally don't go missing in groups that large.
In legends there's plenty of time larger groups were killed or went missing and remember that just because a jedi is a knight or master, it doesn't make them a total badass. Very few jedi were expert combatants, most were primarily diplomats and essentially priests. The team wasn't exactly made up of high council members
@@JJJBunney001 Could you point me to some of those instances? I'm no expert in Legends lore, so I would like to research them if I could.
Now, on to the point of the Jedi. First, if you wield a weapon, then you by nature are given some level of training. You might not be an expert, but if there's enough of you, then the skill of the opponent can be mitigated to some extent. Additionally, they knew they were going against a Jedi killer, which means the people they sent would be better in combat situations than other Jedi.
Second, given that they were mostly diplomats or priests, it means that they weren't generally intended for combat situations.Thus, if they were killed by a single opponent or a group of opponents, then that situation would be cause for concern of some kind.
@@jaredpoon5869 If I may step in for the commenter who replied to you, I do have some information regarding what they could be talking about.
The Battle of Ruusan (1000 BBY): In looking for events by name, this is the most notable in Legends and took place during a conflict called the New Sith Wars. I think we can toss this example aside as the Sith were very obviously involved.
The Stark Hyperspace War (44 BBY): By timeline it does not work as an example but in terms of notable events from legends, it works. Regardless, this was a conflict between the Jedi and Iaco Stark who has several force sensitives on his side during the war. I am not sure if a Sith was behind the overall conflict in terms of setting it up or helping to instigate it, but many Jedi did die and their Deaths were assumed to be casualties of war. I don't have a perfect recollection of the events, but there is a possibility a Sith could have stepped in briefly, done damage, and left and the deaths would be overlooked was war casualties.
There is a mission Mace Windu was involved in on Yinchorr that could also be an example here. Again, timelines do not add up but as even examples, this was another situation where many Jedi did die and the skill of the Yinchorr was actually notably concerning to the order. But again, no mention of Sith or Sith involvement in the background of the conflict. But it is suggested there is a possibility of unknown tampering.
The only other example I can think of is the Great Hyperspace War but that was 5000 years BBY vs the Sith Empire and for obvious reasons, does not support the original reply.
I decided to do a little googling before replying to find any Post Rule of Two examples form legends, and all I got were mentions of a Sith Artifact called the Muur Talisman Incident, the Malachor Incident, and the Naboo Crisis (which is not legends). All of which have Sith ties, the two legends events having very little information to go on but also clearly not suggesting the involvement of Sith or Dark Jedi.
Now - This is legends and Disney could expand the lore of this 1000 year period with new events and happenings that can involve the Sith and remain elusive to the Jedi. But as far as Legends go, there are no good reliable examples that have "mysterious" causes. All the deaths had clearly identifiable causes. The details regarding the google searches are so loose they are more or less possible ideas, nothing actually put into pen and confirmed in cannon or legends.
I think you're kind of missing the point. No logical person is saying the Sith didn't exist during this timeline. They're just pointing out the stupidity of this situation. A whole butt ton of Jedi being very much aware of this guy claiming to be a sith. Obviously the sith still exist in hiding, but this guy ain't exactly hiding as he's murdering a bunch of Jedi & telling the survivors he's a sith.
And? If I put on plate armor, show some talent with sword fighting and claim I'm a Knight, am I actually a Knight? Or am I a dude who studied and practiced a bit, and got good at that stuff? That's the same situation. Just because someone says something doesn't mean it's true. Someone saying their Sith is just that, someone making a claim. This could literally just be a dude who found a holocron and decided to take the Sith title, not part of the same Sith order that seemingly went extinct.
He actually never told them he's a sith. He said the Jedi would name him a sith since the Jedi deem the force being used by non-Jedi's as forbidden and portray them as an evil who does something illegal. He never claimed he was a sith himself even though hinted at their philosophy multiple times from freedom to passion to peace is a lie.
@@uberness77 the stupidity of your logic is astonishing.
If this dude wielding a red lightsaber just murdered half a dozen Jedi using Sithy techniques then proclaiming to the survivors he's Sith, why in the world would the Jedi have any reason to believe he's anything else? They have zero reason to believe he's just some random dude with no affiliation to the Sith.
If it walks like a Sith & talks like a Sith, it's a Sith
He told what...2 survivors having just killed the rest of the Jedi there whilst confident he could take the rest?
We also haven't actually gotten to the end of the show yet so we don't know that him saying he's a sith will actually make it back to the Jedi...or that they'll even take the claim seriously and not write him off as a pretender.
If someone encountered a guy dressed in crusader armour claiming to be one of the knights templar would anyone take them seriously? Obviously not, because the knights templar were to everyone's knowledge wiped out a little over 700 years ago, they have been extinct for near a millennia.
@@IscoMadrid-fd7fy its not illegal to use the force outside of the Jedi order. It never has been. The Jedi do not dictate who gets to use the force. They most certainly don't immediately deem any outside users as evil force users and therefore the equivalent of a Sith. At no point in canon or legends has that ever been the case. You're just pulling things from thin air
Don't tell StarWarsTheory, you're gonna give him a triple heart attack.
I genuinely love the optimism of "Sol will have to be prevented...", like the show has shown any semblance of quality character motivation and consistency.
The first Star Wars book series I read growing up was the Jedi Apprentice series. In that set of books we find out about Qui-Gon's first padawan, Xanatos, who has fallen to the Dark Side, and as a dark jedi he wields a red lightsaber. So for me, having dark side users running around the galaxy with red lightsabers opposing the Jedi seems perfectly plausible. And would explain why the Jedi's first reaction to a Force wilding Jedi killer is to suspect a fallen Jedi, someone trained by a fallen Jedi or a rival faction. So far I don't have a problem with the lore from the Acolyte thus far. I am actually relatively enjoying this new take on Star Wars.
@benstapley6077 - Agree! Me too! đ
I was just about to post something about this, thank you! I'm really sad that so many people don't know about Xanatos. He was right there in the lore right before TPM.
But it also makes the Jedi look stupid and incompetent in the prequels with how many of them and how easily they fall during the first battle of Geonosis.
The Jedi should all be combat-ready with the number of dark Jedi and dark-side users running around now in Legends and in Canon.
Then you are objectively wrong. There is no other way to say it.
He literally called himself a sith...
It honestly doesn't matter what the "truth" is at this point. What matters is that the audience is once again trying very hard to come up with explanations for the plot to make sense instead of the writing just being objectively good from the the beginning. Even if we ignore the lore inconsistencies, the writing is weak.
Weak is a understatement.
Edit: and don't get me started on the burning f*cking rocks/metal door, that was straight up cringe.
I am honestly wondering why people can't just comprehend that. Even if we ignore the Ki-Adi stuff, the "lololo I am a sith" and all the rest of it the show's writing still sucks massive arse. Antagonist motivation flips on a dime, 6 trained jedi get killed by this supposed sith/dark sider, but Sol kicks his shit in alone. Padawan gives the Sith/dark sider more issues than 4-5 trained jedi fighting at the same time. What is this? It's so shite...
Kinda full of crap there aren't you, nobody is bending over backwards to make the plot makes sense, the plot so far does make sense unless you're a dribbling moron, what people are bending over backwards to do is to show how the massive reaches made by the people bending over backwards to dislike the show are actually BS if you actually know anything about Star Wars, legends and new canon in equal measure.
If you're full of crap you'll be called out with examples that isn't trying to make the show make sense.
Yeah it doesn't take a genius to realise, if we seriously have to enter this level of explanation, the writing is just terrible. A show that completely divides the fans, causes fans to attack each other, isn't a good show. People spend a lot of time coming up with explanations to why the show is good or decent, when it simply isn't, if it were good, then they wouldn't be sitting there trying to defend it with every resource they have at their disposal. The Acolyte is just beyond me, it's so bad that it's literally crippling an entire fandom that has existed for decades, the Acolyte is the show which cripples us before Disney creates something so bad, it ends us. The sequels were just the beginning, I could stay a starwars fan with the sequels in existence, but the Acolyte makes me completely embarrassed to still consider myself a fan of starwars.
Star Wars has always had that problem. Just look at the Prequels
Iâm thinking this new Sith is actually Darth Plageuisâ apprentice who resents his master for forcing himself to stay hidden. His whole motivation is he wants to use his powers freely, which is the opposite of the mindset of the Sith at this point. Plageuis will probably show up toward the end and kill his apprentice for almost exposing them, and because of this, heâll take on Palpatine as an apprentice.
Assaj ventress called herself a sith in 2003 clonewars only for dooku to torture her and humiliate her. Non sith call themselves sith all the time.
She was affiliated with the Sith due to Dooku being a genuine Sith Lord. There are exceptions. Plagueis, the novel, is considered canon and his Sith Master had a second apprentice who was also bestowed with the title âDarthâ. Both apprentices were genuine Sith Lords. Even Sideous did the same as his master was still alive when he took on Darth Maul as an apprentice. Plagueis knew of Maulâs existence but certainly wouldnât have authorised his induction into the Order as a legitimate Sith Lord with the Darth title. Dooku couldâve did the same with Ventress if he had wished to do so.
@@Bendaak But she wasn't affiliated with him yet. In the show she says this during her test to join him. She was just being arrogant and presumptuous.
@@Turambar_499 Ahh, I thought he was referring to her after she became his assassin. I am not too familiar with the Clone Wars as Iâve only watched the entire series once.
@@Bendaak in the 2003 clone wars cartoon film she calls herself a sith before even becoming a dookus apprentice
đ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł Man, this is not going to age well.
Yeah it's really weird seeing people, even channels, straight up lie about all this like no one will notice.
I think in legends there was even a story to explain how Yoda knew about rule of two. Iirc a mad dying dark jedi found out about it and their last words were raving about it. No one took it seriously until TPM. So technically Sol doesnt even have to die. At the very least he must be turned into a grief stricken raving lunatic that no one takes seriously.
Well willful ignorance can be attributed to malice. Still surprising to see so much for this.
And Sol is definitely being pushed to some sort of breaking point. If he doesn't die he may well fall to the dark side or leave the order in shame.
You're the right track but a huge problem with legends discourse is people going "I think there was a story where" and not checking if it's real or what it was actually called.
@@DrewLSsix Definitely. What I'm hoping for is that Osha will turn to the dark, kill Mae, Sol will be guilted about this, if he survives he's broken and the only words he says "The Sith. There are only two. A master and an apprentice."
Maybe the closing scene being Yoda reading the report. Or something like that. I'm looking forward to seeing how they wrap it up.
Canonically, the Jedi have already known about the rule of two for centuries. From the archived online Encyclopedia page on Darth Bane in The Clone Wars:
An ancient and legendary Sith Lord, it was Darth Bane who saw that the Sith traditions of old were ultimately a dead end. All too often, squabbling Sith in their bid for power upended carefully laid plans and planted the seeds of their own defeat. After the Sith were decimated by the Jedi Knights of a thousand years ago, Bane enacted the Sith rule of two: there would be only two active Sith at one time -- a Dark Lord to embody the power, and an apprentice to crave it. These Sith would operate in the shadows, favoring guile and conspiracy to bring down their opponents rather than brute force -- that is, until it was time to rise and subjugate the galaxy.
*The rule of two was revealed to the Jedi Order of centuries past,* but in their hubris, the Jedi believed that they had destroyed Bane's plan with his defeat. His remains were placed in a sarcophagus on Moraband, the last Sith Lord to be laid to rest in the Valley of the Dark Lords, and the Jedi presumed the Sith to have been wiped out. But Bane's rule of two secretly preserved a Sith vendetta, and for a thousand years, the Sith Lords worked in secret, preparing for a return. This plan culminated in the rise of Darth Sidious, the destruction of the Jedi Order, and the creation of the Galactic Empire.
@@DatAsuna I'd say it's a problem when once challenged not checking and getting mad while pretending to know everything as some lore master.
I am tired, not sober, am in youtube comments and not in a video thousands will see, I know I have a shite memory and tend to be aware of it so whenever challenged tend to shut up, check my sources and then post them, or go oops.
Which is to say low effort casual conversation is different from... whatever the other is. Is it fandom gaslighting?
I dont think we should expect casual conversation to cite every source. In a debate or argument then sure.
The reason why the Jedi knew about the rule of two was because one of their members turned to the dark side and fought the Republic with an army of pirates. I don't remember the name of this dark Jedi or when this happened, but he came into contact with the Sith and revealed their secret before dying, but the Jedi took this to be mere madness and dismissed the idea. I imagine Yoda reevaluated what that dark Jedi said and came to the conclusion that it was true after the Sith revealed themselves in Episode I.
I like that the sith stabbed that jedi girl three times so that theres no WAY that shes coming back
If she comes back im gonna tweak tf out
The problem with this argument is that, as you very clearly said in the video, when the sith have to show off their abilities, no one survives to tell the tale. The first jedi to get killed already notified the jedi order of a force user attacking her. They investigate, another jedi dies, they continue investigating and like 6 more jedi die in one fight. The person killing those jedi also says hes a sith to the one (jedi) survivor who then escapes to his ship. There is no way he wouldn't then notify the jedi. He obviously wont because the awful writing makes the characters all stupid. Even if he doesn't/cant report back to the b team council like 8 jedi have been killed and they know one of the killers is a force user, that has to turn heads and almost definitely start speculation that the sith have returned, at least among the B team council, one of those B team council members also happens to be the person who says the sith have been extinct for a millenia because hes very arrogantly adamant that maul was not a sith. There is no way they can write there way out of this without it being at least a little bit stupid. Anyway people dont seem to have a problem with this anywhere near as much as the random witch being able to create life, 2 lives in fact, with no push back from the force, that is a way bigger lore issue
To be fair,the Jedi were insanely stupid in the prequels, so being stupid here is totally in character.
But if it's been 900 years since a Sith sighting, would it be a natural thing to suspect. Do we automatically assume something must be a Roman Centurion because they spoke Latin. There comes a point where you don't immediately jump to a certain conclusion.
Just now I realized if living members remembered a suspected (not confirmed) sighting a 100 years before (and the dumbest Jedi who is always wrong was predictably wrong), then it might explain why they were open to the idea a hundred years later.
But this wanders into Obi-Wan Not Recognizing R2 Breaks The Lore territory, where it might be logical (would a guy who barely pays attention to Droid remember a mass produced droid), but still feel wrong to the audience.
In any case, we'll need to see how they land it. I still remember people thinking C3PO not remembering the prequels broke lore because they never considered the possibility of Droid getting their memory wiped. It's obvious they think they have a solution, so we'll see.
the show has yet to end. you cannot assume anything
@@heeee2005 So your saying the show might pull a "here's what really happened" as if that would be any better...
Numerous dark side factions exist throughout the universe. Beyond that, all it takes is a single person finding a holocron, or a tomb, learning a few things then proclaiming themself as Sith. That doesn't mean they returned, just that someone is tossing the title around. It's entirely possible that's happened multiple times.
@@uberness77 This was a thing in Legends, too, many times. Darth Bane, Ulic Qel-Droma, Exar Kun, Revan and Malak, the Sith Triumvirate, etc. Sith Lords who weren't truly affiliated with either of the true Sith Emipres (Sadow's, Vitiate's, etc) were Sith in name only. And in Revan's case, he used the title of Sith Lord not to conquer, but to prepare the galaxy to resist the threat posed by the Sith Empire that was in hiding.
Citing Legends still is silly. They don't even follow their own canon much less the content they non-canonized.
Its sad but fans can only push them in the direction necessary. Politics and dumbass choices has pushed them off the deep end.
The point is that even in Legends this is very much a thing.
This same episode literally introduced cortosis, a previously legends only material, clearly legends was a influence for the writers
â@@HappyGingerWolfnaah it was canon but uea
What is this argument even. People keep talking about going back to the Eu but each time something happens that happened in the Eu suddenly no one remembers
Equally, we don't know how this ends yet. It could be that Sol dies, or somehow it's proven this guy isn't Sith, maybe even he's killed by the true Sith to keep their identity a secret...
Also, Qimir says, and this might be an important distinction, âa Jedi like you might call me, Sithâ. He didnât outright say he was sith. Heâs using, it seems, the generalization that a jedi would. He very well might be a âdark Jediâ or some other group. Especially because he doesnât use the term âapprenticeâ when referring to his student, he specifically says he wants an acolyte. I think a true Sith would definitely say apprentice.
Wait a minute if Yoda knew of the Rule of Two, and Mundi was present during this Acolyte period...maybe the Jedi covered it up.
Like they did with the witch massacre thats clearly about to be revealed.
It wouldn't be hard to assume that they blew off Qui Gon's fears due to it exposing the truth. After Qui Gon's death, Anakin and the war with the Seperatists were the main focus of the Republic. So it could be swept under the rug per say
I hadnât thought about that⊠but I like that angle! Especially if it turns out Mundi is directly involved with the cover upâŠ
Thatâs my theory, a sith canât exist in the height of the republicâs height of peace and prosperity. So this will just be swept under the rug and covered up into oblivion
when a 60 year old jedi magically turns into a 100 year old embryo in his dads nethers, but still a full fledged(and grown) jedi, who was born 40 years after what ever this dumpster fire is... the math hurts more than multi variable time paradox analyses.
â @@tenryutabro let it go⊠itâs never stated in canon how old he is. Someone came up with his age on a trading card in the early 2000s, and since we didnât have anything showing otherwise we ran with it. Now we have something showing otherwise lol
@@tenryuta bro still can't grasp its a new continuity after a decade. Praying for him.
I get it makes sense to have some, but if a dark jedi kills a bunch of jedi if I was a jedi my first thought would be sith or sith like
yes but we also don't know what the other Jedi will see later, they will know the Jedi died by light saber but that dose not say how many of the enemy there where, the Jedi have already admitted of splinter cells, as in more then one fallen Jedi. Plus it is amazing how people will twist a situation rather then admit what reality is telling us, just look at the "debate" around global warming
It would not be yours first though they are extinct. They arenât even thought about at this time in star wars history. They had plenty of other enemies that would have been more likely.
My knowledge of Disney canon isn't the greatest, but outside of the high republic enemies, what is it the jedi face? I know in legend there was many darkside cults and fallen jedi but any new ones?
â@@samuelbeall7060mostly the same, but we are also in the later stages of the high republic so politics and being police for the Republic
They haven't seen a Sith in like 900 years by this point. I think assuming that some relic of the past has suddenly resurfaced is a lot crazier of an idea than just a Jedi Master going rogue. It would make more sense being someone from a dark side wielding faction, like the Nightsisters, or the Brendock Witches. By the clone wars, the Jedi knew about the Nightsisters, and they also knew about the Brendock witches, it makes far more sense to me that they'd assume it's one of them, who they already seemed cautious of considering they were surveying Brendock. Only now do they have confirmation that it's more likely a Sith, and none of them survived to be able to get that information out, everyone except Sol.
I don't know why people aren't considering the possibility that Ki Adi Mundi was just lying, and was intentionally deflecting when the possibility of Sith returning was brought up. This would explain why Yoda talked about the rule of two with Windu.
I think sometimes people forget that dark jedi and general darksiders are a thing. It'd be easy for the jedi to assume that a darksider is just a dark jedi or a rogue force wielder they never found. Any old force sensitive joker could probably find a few sith holocrons and learn a few things but it doesn't necessarily make them an actual Sith. Key examples would be Set Harth and Asaaj Ventress.
Honestly i think the best argument against people is to put in an example; If a coworker says that they saw a person speaking latin, wearing a toga and laurel crown in the street, would you think that the Roman empire is coming back? chances are you'd dismiss them and call them a lunatic or that he just saw a harmless crazy.
Not really the same argument. If sol actually survives and get back to the temple then I would probably consider it a huge lore break. But he will most likely die on the way
@@davidfrederiksen3185 Sol could also not be convincing enough, they were extremely hesitant to believe Qui-Gon after he point blank said he encountered a Sith, and this was after a war was going on, the Jedi by this point have had 900 years of peace, so they'd be more dismissive of it. That's also assuming Sol isn't killed or deserted on some backwater planet. Sol could also potentially be converted, they show has alluded to him having a dark past, and the task for Mae was to "kill a Jedi without a weapon" which hints at converting a Jedi to the dark side. Besides, the show doesn't even have the ability to retcon the movies anyways, the movies come first in the Star Wars canon order, the shows come second, so if the show were to reveal the Jedi actually did know about the Sith, in a way that does break the lore of the movies, that would de-canonize the series.
The fact that you see nothing wrong with this argument amazes me and tells exactly what kind of person you are.
@@F0zek elaborate
Bro has a red lightsaber, trained in the dark side of the force and killed like 8 Jedi⊠itâs a Sith⊠stop covering for the lore breaking show.
I think the real problem for me is that seven Jedi were killed. That is something that would definitely be noticed. Also, how does a Jedi master not notice that his apprentice was swapped??? I'm sorry it just doesn't make sense. Perhaps this will all be explained away, and this is not a true Sith, but even still... pretty bad writing
Sir just watch the show. We don't know if Sol also knows the twins were switched. Sol mind is also conflicted which is a bad thing for force users which the Lore has shown countless times
@trehubb6144 I just don't understand how any master who spends all their time with their apprentice wouldn't immediately notice a drastic difference like that. Jedi are not like normal people where we have to rely on just our normal senses. They can sense people's intentions, thoughts, and moods. To me, it doesn't make sense.
I mean, the Jedi could easily conclude that it was done by a powerful dark side user - possibly trained by a former, fallen Jedi (as is openly speculated in the show). Sith are a very specific sect. Even Qimir claiming to be Sith doesn't necessarily mean he's a real Sith.
@@ExperimentalProfessorhe hasn't seen osha in YEARS until this recent event. The force is used to explain everything away. I don't get why people can't just wait to watch the whole series before they scream bloody murder about the lore being broken
@@ExperimentalProfessorto be fair, Osha is Solâs *former* Padawan, so I suppose they spent many a year apart. And like the other comment said, Solâs thoughts must be clouded after all the showdown against Qimir. Iâm sure he will notice eventually (hopefully on his own and not because of the beaver alien)
If the red lightsaber thing was so conclusively Sith, then Qui-Gon could have just said "I was attacked by a Sith Warrior. I know he was a Sith because he had a red lightsaber." And the Council would have just had to go "Ah, shit, for real? A red lightsaber? The Sith are back, let's go find them."
I want to remind everyone that in the second Bane novel, Zannah and Bane murder several of the Jedi Generals who fought during the Battle of Ruusan. The Jedi's finest warriors are cut down, Zannah leaves her insane brother to take the fall...and the Jedi just believe this insane kid with little Force training could defeat Hoth's best Jedi.
It does not take much to fool the Jedi.
So you're lying to me?
You completely misunderstood all the criticisms and concerns levied against this show. No one is saying that we can't have a guy using a red lightsaber. No one is saying we can't have any Sith in there. The whole idea is that it's the POV of the Sith while they're in hiding. The one thing everyone is worried about is if they're going to have it such that the Jedi discover the Sith before TPM. We are fine with the Sith encountering the Jedi as long as there are no survivors. That's what everyone speculated they would do. Before then, everyone speculated that Smilo Ren wasn't even Sith. But now, he straight up told a Jedi Master that he is a Sith, and that Jedi Master escaped. He's still alive.
The biggest reason for concern is that Disney Star Wars has a track record of breaking the lore and canon like toothpicks. They have a habit of writing awful, lazy, trashy stories, baring Andor, the one good thing Disney Star Wars made. As it stands now, the show is poised to undermine the world-building laid out in TPM unless they kill off Master Sol or if there is a cover-up. Those are the only two solutions to maintain continuity, and even then, they have issues.
If they kill off Sol, it will more than likely be extremely unsatisfactory, knowing the competence of the writers, but at least the canon is maintained. If there is a cover-up, then that would have great implications for the narrative and the characters who partake in the cover-up. If the Jedi councile never hears of this encounter with the Sith because of a cover-up, then the unprepared state we find them in TPM would have been because of the person who did the cover-up. Thus, they would have doomed the Jedi Order.
Edit: Lastly, most people haven't seen old expanded universe content and don't care about it. They care for more primary and direct forms of media like shows and movies. To some people, that is all the canon of Star Wars is. They do not factor in obscure or niche comics like some diehards would, and even if these comics or books broke the canon in the way people fear The Acolyte would, pointing it out does not make The Acolyte any less problematic should they break the lore. Pointing out a problem in another place does not mean the problem disappears or is no longer a problem. This is a logical fallacy.
But honestly, I'm just disappointed by the video. You're fighting a strawman and resorting to clickbait? You're being incredibly inflammatory about it and acting like everyone who raises concern about this and points out the potential damage that can be done are just a bunch of morons who haven't read the lore or understand it. It's honestly just so incredibly toxic, and it really is indicative of the sorry state of Star Wars that this is what's becoming of its "fandom."
Honestly I'm more baffled how Yoda and Windu knew about Bane and the Rule of Two in TPM but they shouldn't have encountered any bane-lineage sith to begin with.
It does break lore. Disney changed the legends canon for red lightsabers to make turning them red into a Sith ritual. Previously it was just the result of an artificial stone since most dark jedi and Sith could not exactly go down to the kyber store. Since then other Disney dark Jedi have had orange blades, see Ahsoka, not crimson red, in keeping with their own lore. The Sith Inquisitors had red because they were trained in the Sith ritual. The lore has been entirely consistent since Disney set how red is made in their version of Star Wars. If the Phantom Menace is still canon then that means the only obvious conclusion to seeing someone with a red lightsaber is that they are likely a Sith, or know a Sith, or have somehow found a weapon of a Sith. This makes it a logical conclusion for Qui Gon. For the council, they don't know if this assassin found the weapon, or if someone has recreated the ritual, or if it was a projection, or if, somehow, after a thousand years of absolutely no hint of the Sith, they suddenly just popped up and attacked a Jedi walking out of town on a backwater planet outside of the Republic for seemingly no reason. They were not sure but they promised to investigate, no doubt sending a heavy expedition to Tatooine to find this attacker. There was no reason to believe the situation had anything to do with their current mission so Qui Gon was told to keep on. When he was hunted down and killed by this same dark side user they did not need Maul to say he was a Sith, they simply looked at the facts and the obvious conclusion was he was one.
Now let us look at the new context the acolyte has given us. Jedi are apparently murdered by dark side force users with such frequency that it isn't even worth alerting the high council of it. Red lightsabers don't signal that one may be a Sith. They don't even show recognition when the claim of being a Sith is made by the person killing Jedi. So Qui Gon jumping to conclusions and thinking Maul was a Sith was a foolish act on his part, soiling the character. Without seeing the show finish we have two possibilities for how it continues: either Sol lives to tell or Sol does not live to tell. If Sol lives to tell then it means the Jedi council absolutely should have known the Sith had returned and their disbelief in Phantom Menace makes no sense. If Sol does not live to tell then an incident in which over half a dozen Jedi were murdered by a dark side force user will probably be investigated. Is it reasonable for them to conclude it must have been the work of largely untrained witch girls (who also must have died, because they are also witnesses)? I think not. They know there was at least one other accomplice and they were likely trained, that makes a conspiracy, and seeing as they cannot end the conspiracy without killing off the Sith they must still assume the conspiracy could arise at any time. Unless Sol is a complete fool the very first thing he should do as soon as he gets to a comlink is inform the Jedi that he encountered a Sith. We know more Jedi are going back to that planet so presumably it is because Sol sends a message or because Sol does not send a message and a rescue mission is sent. A rescue mission that must encounter nothing or also all die, or else it breaks the Phantom Menace. The only way this can make sense and not break lore is to drag dirt on the movie characters. Qui Gon is paranoid, the council are cowards and fools, and the Jedi are bad. If they go the 'oh he wasn't really a Sith' path then how would the Jedi prove to themselves he is not really Sith? He has a Sith weapon, is highly trained like a Sith, and literally said he was Sith. Even if he is somehow outside the rule of two and has nothing to do with the line of Sith (found a holocron or something) it would be proof that the Sith had not been extinct for a thousand years and that lone Sith could still crop up, so the council should know that. It just makes no sense. They have to kill off the twins, Sol, and anyone else that goes to investigate to avoid breaking canon, but either way it does break lore by making the Jedi look incompetent and corrupt. And the show is not over so it could break canon by the end, or make more extremely irrational leaps to justify their plot holes, like how a whole team of Jedi went on assignment looking for another Jedi on assignment and absolutely none of them had a comlink.
the biggest issue is that ki adi mundi, the specific council member who shot down qui gonâs suggestion of a sith in tpm is shown to have known about this dark side user. Even if no one survives I doubt heâd just sit on the knowledge that thereâs a darkside user who was capable of killing a master and several knights at once
all jedi knew about dark side users. Mundi is talking about sith.
Here's what people seem to forget. When GEORGE LUCAS was in charge the movies were canon only. If it made sense he used it in his films and cartoons.
So when people refer to books that were okayed by GEORGE but not fully finalized as canon by GEORGE you give Fan's misinformation. Also he said this in an interview. Straight from the horses mouth. MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU.
Iâm glad that Eckharts is continuing to keep it about the lore, the show, and the showâs quality rather than devolving into petty culture wars BS like so many other outrage mining CZcamsrs.
Heâs just trying to keep his access to Disney
@@hydra8845 oh for fucks sake
@@zelo3238 he really is
@Halfort57 - Oh, for f**k's sake! đ
The bots are strong with this one...
Force Vision Incoming:
Oshi becomes an acolyte after Mae gets killed by Sol, and most likely replaces Qimir.
I feel like this entire thing is going to be test for Qimir by his Master. Kind of like Plagueis letting Palpatine train Maul. A sith assassin within the Bane line.
One thing I HATE about this show isn't really the fact that the Jedi know there's a dude running around with a red lightsaber, killing Jedi with his protege, it's the fact the Jedi in this show seem downright stupid and incompetent and don't tell each other ANYTHING.
Seriously, we saw in the Prequels and The Clone Wars that the Jedi constantly spoke to each other, always informed the Jedi Council of everything going on. This a massive fault on the writer's part, writers can only ever write characters as smart and competent as themselves, and these aren't smart, competent writers.
As for people saying the Jedi wouldn't assume a red lightsaber means Sith Lord - yes, they would. In TPM, Qui-Gon did exactly that, the Council denied it because they didn't witness it themselves, and by the end of the movie, they confirmed it was indeed a Sith Lord. The Acolyte has to pull some serious mental and narrative gymnastic to pull itself out of this mess. It reminds me of the goofballs and chucklefucks that decided to write Obi-Wan stupidly sparing Vader in the Kenobi show, why bother setting up a narrative that invalidates itself? That's awful writing.
With all the lore breaking Disney has done, even in this show specifically, this issue is rather minor. The first EU series I read was Jedi Apprentice, which had Qui Gon facing off with a former padawan turned dark jedi. Red lightsaber right on the cover. I only see a problem with mask guy referring to himself as what the Jedi would call a sith, which shouldn't be the case unless he is one. Even in Disney's lore, I'm pretty sure dark jedi are a thing. So, unless he's actually a sith, the description was pointless. If he is a sith, erebody gotta die by the end.
It's because the writers don't know star wars lore (literally, they bragged about it). People that don't know star wars just call everything a sith. I do a star wars roleplay and so many people create sith characters to be their characters rival. Bad fan fiction always throws the word sith around for no reason.
â@@viperstriker4728I mean, it could be the same case here. A wannabe dark force user wanting to be a Sith. Probably studied a Sith holocron, but isn't true Sith. A strong force user at least from what we've seen.
â@@viperstriker4728 this is kinda inaccurate. They talked about having a few writers in the writers room who weren't fans who could give an outside perspective. I don't see anything wrong with that. Also Lesley headland has said in an interview that she is a huge star wars fan. She personally owns a bunch of star wars lore books and says she goes online to watch monthly lore update videos. She also has stated about having a deep respect for the lore.
"But she hasn't because she did this thing I don't like!" Writers are gonna piss off lore heads no matter what. But I'd rather advocate for someone like headland who at the very least respect the EU than other writers like Dave filoni who have literally said things like "only the shows and movies actually matter, the books and comics are less important" (still love you Dave)
@@pirateregaler7709 you mean the woman who said when asked which is her favorite star wars movie: "all the star wars!". that woman knows exactly jack about it. she is a poser and she should have a neighboring cell to good old harv!
The show suffers from writing and plot inconsistency, and that cant be denied. I know Iâll get rogue squadron in the future, and thats all I care about⊠also the Mando movie đ
No matter how true it is, they will still always deny it.
After season 3 of mando, I don't know if I really want a movie now
It's a mystery show that reveals more information every episode. How do you know there are inconsistencies yet?
@@sirmarshall9521Because there's no mystery as they reveal them both in the first and third episodes. So whatâs the mystery that needs me to solve?
@@sirmarshall9521 Because the writers are just as in the dark about what is happening as the audience. There are so many shows where the mystery is going nowhere and there is a curtain feel to them, this show has it.
Just as an example, in one of the earlier episodes when the ship crashes.... count how many days the main character was unconscious in the wreck. I guarantee you the writers didn't consider the logistics involved here. They filmed the crash, they filmed the conversations elsewhere, then someone else edited them together as if people can teleport across the galaxy instantly. Worse part, maps and models of the galaxy already exist, the hard part was done for Disney yet they still ignored it.
Another series (world trigger) I heard created a physical model of the city the heroes are in so when one of them heads home, he would bike off in the right direction. And when another character offers to give him a ride, they actually lived in the same direction. Because instead of thinking the little details are mistakes I should just ignore, I know they are clues about the plot. That is the sort of stuff that makes good writing, that series mysteries will pay off.
I'm just waiting for Disney to pull the dumb move and reveal that the sith is in reality a teen Palpatine...knowing the writing room I wouldn't be suprised for that nonsensical unhinged twist.
I was right when I assumed that The Acolyte will be a lot better viewed all together, all 6 episodes. If the last episode is also decent, I'll feel vindicated. This is just a really stretched out movie cut up into episodes, maybe someone some day could make a movie cut out of it.
About the lore questions it is obvious many people don't pay attention. The dude told Master Sol that the Jedi would call him "Sith" but he also stated he's just himself wanting to be free.
This entire thing in both current canon as well as Legends is about the narrowminded ignorance of the Jedi Order and the harm it caused.
#AskEck So, I wonder, could we return to Star Wars/ sci fi vs series, ship breakdowns, and battle breakdowns? I miss them.
I have been very disappointed in this fan debate as I thought it was a clear point. I had a lot of hope for the show because I liked the Plagues book and wanted more hidden sith stories
Legends? Canon? No, no.
Retcon is the Disney way. It's their shtick, all the way back to the 40's. They'll do whatever they want to the story as long as it sells.
It's a very simple situation. In TPM Qui-Gon *assumed* the assailer with the red lightsaber was a Sith. Whereupon Ki-Adi Mundi replies that the Sith have been extinct for a millenium. It just turned out that Jinn was correct.
Cue over 80 years prior; the Jedi encounter a red lightsaber-wielding Force user intent on killing Jedi. Why would they not also assume it was a Sith? It's the same situation! So either Mundi PURPOSEFULLY lied, or, Occam's Razor ftw, the writers of this show don't know anything about Star Wars, and just suck.
I honestly wish the Sith, or at least Sith adjacent or aligned, werenât involved in the show. Not because it âruins the loreâ but I would have preferred seeing the Jedi fight against a new enemy or different threat. The conflict between them has just been so played out and thoroughly explored, it would have been refreshing to see a new faction or group that opposes the Jedi or Republic.
If the Sith absolutely have to be involved, than just have them be the shadowy puppet masters manipulating everyone and slowly paving the way for Sidious.
But then that contradicts not only the prequels but the high republic setting itself as thereâs not supposed to be some random Yuzon Vong-type threat piping up during this period of peace.
Honestly, this should have been set back during the early days of the Republic before they discovered the Sith.
It doesnât have to be some galaxy spanning threat. Maybe thereâs just a renegade planet causing trouble or a crime faction thatâs being more aggressive than normal. Not enough to break the period of peace, but just loud enough that the Jedi have to deal with it.
@@nunouno001 True enough. That would be a fun show.
Have it be more of a political thriller as it has more to do with maneuvering delicate situations and trying to solve problems while maintaining the Jedi Code.
Eck: "Star wars fans are lying to you!" đ
Tomorrow's youtube thumbnails: "Eckharts Ladder; a cautionary tale in self-awareness" đ§
The bigger picture is that the lore breaking (even if this isn't an instance of that), an obvious agenda that supercedes the story, and just...well horrifically bad storytelling all add up to a show that basically helping to destroy a beloved IP. The fans are upset because entertainment they used to love is in the hand of an executive, who has no real talent, who self inserts, who hires writers, directors, and actors who care less about the franchise than she does and have even less talent. And this executive seems hell bent on poisoning the IP so that the upset fans will leave and she can remake the IP in her image for some imagined MODERN AUDIENCE who will never materialize. Even if we all just accept that the Jedi see a sith in this series and then in the clone wars the Jedi forget that they saw a sith as huge plot holes kind of like the federation forgetting they had holographic communications when moving from STD to the original series, and everyone promising to keep the spore drive a secret, it's a symptom of a larger issue, the state of Star Wars and the clowns running into the ground. Arguing that the siths existence in this show doesn't break cannon is kind of like arguing that someone reporting a crime as arson is wrong because the reporter said the criminal lit the fire with a lighter when it was a match. You are focusing on semantics and missing the bigger picture.
I think when people discuss fallen Jedi, dark side users and then sith they need to actually describe what a âtrue sithâ is compared to someone who just uses the dark side. For myself I know there is a difference but I couldnât outline it. So my question is what is the actual difference between a sith and other dark side users
I think people would look past lore changes if the quality was better.
And Disney's statements attacking fans doesn't help either.
@@viperstriker4728 Its gotten worse than just fan attacks. Have you seen what Elon Musk posted on X? Ngl, I tried for so long to give the company the benefit of the doubt and took the stance that Kathleen was the issue, not the company. Now I think I am loosing my faith in Disney. Before I could ignore a few poorly made attempts at a show or movie. The issues with the Sequels were explainable too. But the business practices Disney is permitting in their company is just... disgusting.
How exactly would the Jedi fight a force user with dark side powers and a red lightsaber and then go, "Nope, just a dark jedi." I mean how exactly did they define a 'dark jedi' in order to differentiate them from a sith?
The people making star wars don't give a crap. Fans are stretching backwards to make it make sense.
Leave the dead franchise behind.
Honestly we cannot use EU (legends) to answer what is going on in Disney canon Starwars anymore. Its is it's own thing now, what these new creators do now is just fill in missing pieces of their new timeline. Even though they bring in famous EU characters like Thrawn Disney changes their history and origins so we can assume this happens to Bane as well, meaning we are in a point where everything canon wise is up in the air. And knowing Feloni fetish for retcons i wouldn't be surprised they change everything here again lolđ. Its reason no one takes this new canon seriously.
Yoda knew the sith still existed, and had clearly run in to them, likely multiple times. Or if not Yoda himself, other jedi he heard from. There is no other way he knew of the rule of two.
The Jedi had the biggest database in all the galaxy of course people like joda knew what was a sith and also all Jedi needed to be though that because that is how they educate their padawans to not use the dark side of the force and to knew that they needed to tell them about the sith
@jesusgaston3457 so you just don't know the lore, could have said so.
Their data base wouldn't contain anything about the rule of two. That didn't exist before the sith wee wiped put and went into hiding. That was the entire point of the rule of two. Anything in their databases about the sith would predats the rule of two. It simply wouldn't be there. The only possible way to know about it is for them to have run in to sith after they were supposed to have died off. You people complain n about the lore breaking, while not understanding the most basic stuff.
@@zogar8526 in the Plagueis novel he says there was a sith that turn to the Jedi side he could have been the one who said it to Yoda
@jesusgaston3457 that is legends, and still shows the jedi have en countered the sith, and knew they still existed, proving my point, and showing how none of this is lore breaking. No matter how you slice it, the ji have seen the sith in the last 1000 years.
@@zogar8526 at the end they break lore because they broke the rule of two because by the time of the acolyte Darth Plagueis and Darth tenebrous were alive you are accusing me of not knowing the lore the showrunners should have made their work and learn that at least what it was canon not trying to change it
5:20 Most fans donât actually read the books they refer to, merely watch yt videos about them, so they miss the subtle details
Ah disney money makes people forget canon they loved
Yoda didn't know about the rule of two in episode 1, he obviously learned it between moviesđââïž
The problem with prequels is they often make other films feel suddenly weird. The Acolyte makes Mundi's exclamations in the Council seem weird. Like, with this new information, you'd expect him to say something like, "The Sith Haven't been seen in a millenium! However, we did have those Force-using assassins a hundred years ago. Remember that, everyone?"
Tbf, Mundi was retconned to be in the Acolyte. The original lore has him born long after the the timeline shown in the series. That being said the lore breaks and way more of a minor nitpick than the other problems.
@@colbunkmust âââ ââ ââ there was no retconning lol. His birthday or species lifespan has never been established in cannon.
As for the op, we literally know almost nothing about this time period but we know for certain the Jedi are not the only users of the force. Quigon even says that if Anakin had been born in the Republic they would have identified him quickly meaning that in the outer rim where there are likely billions of people thereâs plenty of room for other force sensitives beyond the witches of Dathomir and this new group of witches. The idea that this is a one in a thousand year thing for the Jedi to see is just so blatantly ignorant and ridiculous
But he wasnât there. If nobody was alive to tell him of the sith then he would never know
Not to mention it makes them look dumb that they're as unprepared against Force-wielding opponents and just combat in general if they're dealing with even dark-side users 100 years before the Prequels.
Should be hyper-vigilant for any sort of Sith as well as probably try to bring back the Republic military on the chance they do return and attack the Republic.
It would completely change the prequels and Anakinâs fate.
ââ@@danieltravelstead I forget what their called but the star wars cards that were released literally has his birthday on it so this was retconning to some degree
Appreciate you being one of the few Star Wars channels out there actually discussing lore instead of resorting to culture war garbage. Hope you start calling out other youtubers too who do that
What's the lore say about if pineapple on pizza is acceptable?
The bots are strong with this one...
@@Coconut-219 bots? wat
Somebody please send this video to StarWarsTheory
I think Yoda knowing about the Rule of Two is explained well in the Darth Bane trilogy. They briefly had people telling the order that the sith were still alive and stories of Bane reached the Jedi. But through clever trickery they were convinced they had killed Bane. So they are only somewhat convinced that the sith were extinct
seems to me like the show writers know more about lore and canon than the people who claim to know more about lore and canon than the show writers đ€·ââ
Actually the show writers openly bragged about not knowing the lore because they wanted the show to make sense to those who haven't seen other star wars shows....
@@viperstriker4728 I know their publicity has been terrible. They are trying to bait people and providing them with expectations before seeing it, egging on a prejudiced reaction. But if you watch it closely and know the lore and canon, itâs pretty consistent. Iâve been vocally opposed to their w0ke nonsense since TFA. They are using all that hate to pull a switcheroo.
They actually put KAM in there to take the blame instead of the entire Jedi order. Cortosis. The tracker thing. They know their lore and canon better than most fans. They have all the resources at their disposal.
The writer (who Iâm very wary of) supposedly was really based. A lot of people under the rainbow actually hate the messaging coming from the rest of the rainbow community. But at the same time going around saying itâs the gayest Star Wars. They are trolling people.
If you e seen Star Wars and know it well, this fits in perfectly with the rest of the saga. Lots of rhymes. Itâs very layered and people are missing a lot of clever connections because they are expecting trash. You go looking for trash youâll find it everywhere. A real Star Wars fan doesnât give in to hate, controls their emotions and looks for the good in things and people.
Sorry that was long, I just took a huge dump.
@@viperstriker4728 Yet they included stuff like cortosis...so I guess if the showrunner don't no the lore that means the fans REALLY don't know the lore.
After the last two weeks...I hate to say that kind of tracks.
@@viperstriker4728they included writers that enjoyed different parts of Star Wars and then one that hadnât seen any of the movies until they started working on it. Youâre really overblowing things
Agree to disagree. This show's writing has been awful whether or not there are canon inconsistencies which there most definitely are. The gymnastics that people are going through to excuse this terrible story is mind-numbing.
Donât worry in a few weeks they will do a complete 180 like usual. The franchise is in a really terrible spot and the cope isnât helping.
Most people agree that the writing has been bad. But the hate is at a extreme. The writing is bad the acting is meh the fights are great and the visual effects are decent. But how does this equate to a 1/10
People continue to abuse the Eu for their own goals in hating on Disney. Most of the anti woke CZcamsrs have probably never even read more then one book on the matter but they still continue to miss use it
â@@davidfrederiksen3185 my thoughts exactly, it is nit the best star aars show of course, but i fail to see how people can, with a straight dace, act like this show is worse than kenobi and bobf. These stories' fights were lame and they had way more detours that derailed the olot
Regarding 2:15 -- I believe that Drew Karpeshyn tried to reconcile the inconsistency in The Phantom Menace by asserting that Revan promulgated the Rule of Two during his Jedi Civil War, and Darth Bane rediscovered said rule in a holocron that Revan recorded in his evil phase.
Although Yoda can't be as certain as he sounds at Naboo, it was likely (assuming Revan shared his knowledge to Bastila Shan) that if the Sith had survived Ruusan (or more likely to Yoda, been restarted by some cultists), they had likely embraced Revan's tradition rather than Skere Kaan's. Which matches what the audience knows in the broad strokes, though the details were conveniently clouded.
I donât see why the Jedi canât think heâs a Sith for now as long as thatâs disproven to them at a later time
Even if the sith was outed. That would have been recorded that the jedi encountered a sith, and master kit would have said it's been one hundred years since the last encounter, not extinct for millennia.
He hasnât been outed though so why bring that up? 1 single Jedi is still alive that knows him and will likely not be able to tell anyone.
Not to mention if they were only dark Jedi, it would make the Jedi Order hyper-vigilant against all rogue Force users and combat-ready against them as well.
The first battle of Geonosis wouldn't have happened and Palpatine never would have gotten into power.
@@angryjoe98 Doesnât matter.
They have nearly a dozen Jedi murdered by hostile Force sensitives capable of killing Jedi Masters with no issue.
This should have sent the Jedi Order into a frenzy as they ramped up combat training and quietly informed the Republic that the Sith may be returning.
The Republic shouldn't resemble what we see in the Prequels. It should look more like it did on the eve of the Great Galactic War.
@@Lobsterwithinternet lmao wow that is not how it works. You seem to miss the whole point that the Jedi are failures. Why do you think they went extinct? The point is the consistency fail to take action they cover things up they dont take threats seriously. Itâs been a consistent theme throughout Star Wars for the last 20 years and it seems like you people are missing it. You also felt to understand that there are dark Jedi in the university Jedi still have other enemies. The obvious assumption that they would make is that the evil twin killed them not a sith lord.
@@angryjoe98 Failure is one thing. Complete stupidity is another.
It makes the fact they lasted a thousand generations look like a lie and puts everything they did into question.
And if there are so many dark Jedi and rogue Force users running around, how can the Jedi cover them up if they're simultaneously this incompetent? There should be whole armies of force users and dark Jedi conquering space and toppling the incompetent Republic.
What you're describing and what this show and legends say are incongruent with what we see in the movies.
I haven't heard anyone make this complaint. As the the main complaint I've heard about the acolyte is a change to ki adi mundi birthday.
Pretty sure his birth was only in legends tho? I could be wrong but I thought that in the new canon it hadnât been defined yet, especially since we donât have that much info on that time period in new canon other than high republic books and the acolyte?
Why does it even matter though. Itâs not like making him live longer changes his character or anything.
@@Jack-gh9xb I don't know I'm a casual fan of Star wars and I'm just saying that's what I've heard most people complain about. I also doubt it's just a Legends thing and probably Cannon. As creators that create these massive franchises like this usually like to go in fill in background details like this as a character's birthday is very a common thing for a creators to fill in especially for character like ki adi mundi. If he was the less notable background character I could see it.
Star Wars Theory and his fans keep droning on and on about it and complaining in various channels' comments. If you have not seen the complaint, it's because you have not been looking to begin with.
@@mikd157 well that's hard to explain. But usually small changes lead to big changes and people get invested in lore and if you can just change the lore of any fictional universe at a whim there's nothing to be invested in. As the lore is basically regards to how the universe works and its history. Ask yourself though if you want to know the answer to your question how would you feel if your favorite franchise started changing around the established lore or facts about whatever franchise it may be.
In the Plagueis novel, it is brought up that that around 200 years before the Phantom Menace, some Sith Lord screwed up and the Jedi felt that disturbance. He tells Palpatine that if their secret is discovered by the Jedi, that those Jedi must die.
In another story (Iâd have to look it up) thereâs this Jedi (a Jedi Sentinel) who was on a secret mission to follow a lead as to a possible Sith. He of course meets a tragic end before he could send his report.
In another story, the Jedi discovered that some Sith had survived, as well as Darth Zannah (Baneâs apprentice). Some used to make the point that the Jedi likely learned of the Rule of Two back then.
And there is the Jedi rule against genocide and the freedom of other Force using traditions to practice the Force (even the Darkside), so long as it doesnât risk destabilizing the galaxy. So in the past, the Jedi just demilitarized and exiled the trouble makers (including dark Jedi and Sith), rather than wiping them out. Once, after the Hyperspace war (I think it was), the Jedi held back what it considered to be an attempted genocide of the Sith by the Republic, because the Sith had already been beaten down to the brink of that. Of course the Sith believe otherwise, which was why they keep bringing up having their revenge.
Meanwhile in this show, Ki-Adi-Mundi seems fairly adamant that Maeâs (or Osha since not all them seemed to be convinced that Mae had survived since Jedi report of that incident, including Solâs account claimed that they saw her die) and convinced that her Master must be a Jedi. And they will only have Solâs claim that there was a Sith Lord, unless Mae, whom again they might be inclined to believe her to Osha, also claims the same.
But since they wonât be able to find any evidence of a Sith and that they other surviving Jedi from 16 years earlier had issues, including mental issues over what happened 16 years earlier, they might be inclined to reason that there was no Sith, and maybe no Mae, but rather that it was instead Master Sol and maybe Osha since he had trained her. Doubly so, since Mae will tell them that the 4 Jedi that played part in what went down 16 years are actually guilty of a crime and covered it up, as a way to get her justice, which she had brought up a few times now was either through revenge or outright revealing their crimes to the Jedi Council so that they can be arrested.
So Vernestra and Mundi nor the Jedi High Council and the Republic Senate will ever learn of the existence of the Sith who was/is behind these incidents. Which was already confirmed by the writers.
So I donât know what everyone is crying about.
Another PERFECT example, Kylo Ren's lightsaber is red but he is no sith lord
I look at it this way, if a guy showed up claiming to be a Byzantine cataphract and killed a dozen Turkish cops while shouting about how heâs come to restore the Roman Empire no one would believe he was what he claimed to be. After all, we all know that Byzantium has been rendered into the past tense and who calls themselves a cataphract anyways. Master Sol was traumatized even before this case and I can see the Council thinking heâs cracked. Misreading the signs of whatâs going on is what gets the Jedi wiped out and that pattern of behavior starts somewhere.
It's kinda a weak argument. I agree that canon has not been broken yet,but if sol manages to return to corusant and actually inform the council of what he saw then canon would have been broken
@@davidfrederiksen3185 Only if he tells the Council and the Council believes Qimir is an actual Sith. Regardless of whether or not he actually is.
@@GM_MorganV I must disagree. But I don't think it will happen. But since the season is not over let's wait till then
@@davidfrederiksen3185 thats fair. Only way to find out is to wait and see.
Problem is they blew a LOT of Fan Capital on sequel series and some of their press events and Kenobi.
It is 10X harder to regain trust than to lose it
Why kenobi specifically, everyone always says that.
Boba and mando season 3 were arguably much worse written, especially with regards to fan favourite characters, but it seems like there's way more hatred for specifically Reva than nearly any other Disney characters or stories
â@@HappyGingerWolfprobably because she is easy to meme
The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker did most of the damage
@@HappyGingerWolf Because Reva was a terrible written character. If you look at it, fans weren't hating on the actress portraying her because she actually played the part well, it was just a poorly written character that did fit in to the story in any way and thats why people hated Reva.
@@mdm1271 Wrong. That isn't why people hated Reva. And you know it.
No one is saying the sith didnt exist. They are saying the Jedi cant know the sith have returned and they would/should know if you've got a dark force user with a red lightsaber killing jedi masters. It's not up for debate, it's simple. If they couldn't write a story that fits that bill they shouldn't have made the show.
this is the reason Lucas sold off the Franchise..he literally said i can't stand the crazy Fans anymore.
Itâs literally a Sith Lord. He said he was.
as well all know villains never lie
He said they'd call him Sith, not that he was Sith lmfao did you even watch it
I was on the fence with the Acolyte but tbh the fights in episode 5 are really good. There hasnât been a lightsaber user as physically dominating since Maul
Forgive me, but how are we actively justifying canon with legends content? This seems flawed.
If fallen Jedi were so common, why would Qui-Gon assume an enemy trained in the Jedi arts is immediately a Sith?
If such a brief encounter immediately rings alarm bells that it's likely a Sith, why is the Acolyte not treated with the same suspicions?
There 'can' be dark Jedi, the sith 'can' be active behind the scenes, etc, but nothing about the way characters treat the force users in the acolyte makes any sense.
Difference of opinion. Just because Qui-Gon made that conclusion does not mean others would have.
There are some notable differences that should be considered.
Qui-Gon was not just any other Jedi. He was offered and refused a seat in the Council several times over. He was well known and had a heavy voice in the order. It was not like they were talking to an average master. And given how Qui-Gon acted, I am also willing to bet that his assessment was not based on Maul's looks or the saber, but sensing the strong focus of the Dark Side in him. Jedi and Sith can sense each other. But this isn't just a trait they have by default. And it can also be masked. Palpatine fooled everyone, EVEN Qui-Gon.
So I get why this is brought up as an argument but I am going to stress that Qui-Gon is ONE Jedi and is not a representation of the common Jedi.
Secondly, there was no mention of a Sith being involved. The whole investigation, while it was aimed at a known Jedi Killer, was on the expectation the one who trained May was a fallen Jedi who was using her to do their dirty work. May was not using a saber either in her efforts, which further distracted them from the nature of this plot.
@@christopherpoet458 Qui Gons assessment had nothing to do with looks, a red saber, or anything.
Purely the fact that an enemy was trained in the Jedi arts (and possibly sensing the dark side) was enough to raise a strong suspicion of Maul being sith. I get that Qui Gon was hardly normal, but he wasn't crazy. It was enough to warrant such a possibility.
Meanwhile The Acolyte has a seemingly much more capable darkside force user, also trained in the Jedi arts, and nobody ever even raises the possibility? It's treated so significantly differently to Maul that the only explanation is a Meta one, so nobody says anything contrary to Mundi in the prequels.
TLDR: any explanation for why The Acolyte antagonists aren't treated as sith only makes Qui Gon less likely to have suggested Maul was a Sith.
â@@existentialselkath1264 "Qui-Gon's assessment had nothing to do with looks, a red saber, or anything. - Yes, I agree with this, and I mentioned it in my previous comment.
(and possibly sensing the dark side) - Again, I agree, and I highlighted this point as well.
but he wasn't crazy. - Absolutely, and I never suggested that he was. Qui-Gon was one of the best in the Order, evidenced by the multiple offers to join the Council, which he turned down. This speaks volumes about his capabilities and reputation.
any explanation for why The Acolyte antagonists aren't treated as Sith only makes Qui-Gon less likely to have suggested Maul was a Sith. - This is where we diverge. It's an opinion, not a fact. Not to mention everything I have said and pointed out completely disproves this statement.
Your response seems to repeat much of what I already said, then dismisses it without addressing the nuances I mentioned. Letâs clarify a few points:
Qui-Gonâs Unique Abilities: Qui-Gon was exceptionally attuned to the Force, which influenced his ability to sense the dark side in Maul. His status and abilities were well above average for a Jedi.
Context of the Encounters:
Maul: Qui-Gon had a direct, confrontational encounter with Maul, where he sensed the dark side strongly. This, combined with Maulâs skills, led him to conclude Maul was a Sith.
May in "The Acolyte": Mayâs abilities and actions do not match those of a Sith like Maul. She does not exhibit the same level of skill or certainty, making it harder for the Jedi to conclude that her master is a Sith based on limited interactions.
Narrative and Meta Considerations: The storytelling in "The Acolyte" has to align with the established lore that the Jedi are unaware of the Sithâs existence at large during this time. This results in a different treatment of dark side users compared to "The Phantom Menace."
Specifics of the Investigation:
In "The Acolyte," the investigation is aimed at a fallen Jedi, not a Sith. Mayâs lack of a lightsaber and the subtlety of her actions further distract from the possibility of her being linked to a Sith Lord.
Solâs interaction with May does not provide enough evidence to conclude her master is a Sith. The Jedi require more explicit proof to make such a claim.
Itâs important to recognize the narrative constraints and character differences that influence these reactions. I appreciate the discussion and hope this clarifies my points. Let's see how the story develops in the upcoming episodes."
@@christopherpoet458 I repeat a lot of what you've said because I feel like it specifically supports my argument and was confused that you didn't see that. Also, I'm talking about the master, not May.
"Narrative and Meta Considerations: The storytelling in "The Acolyte" has to align with the established lore that the Jedi are unaware of the Sith's existence at large during this time. This results in a different treatment of dark side users compared to "The Phantom Menace."" this is a problem.
@@existentialselkath1264 No, I do not see how is supports what you are saying. And I am now ever further confused because Sol's first interaction with the Sith is in Episode 4. He didn't know they were a Sith until then. And if we are talking about the moment with Sol asks him to validate who he is, my assumption of the moment was dramatic effect or complete and utter shock on Sol's part. A moment of disbelief.
And yes, yes it is a problem and I am not going to deny that. It also comes with the territory. Prequels are tricky for many reasons, that being one of them. Which is why they do not often work very well.
EDIT: Mistake on my part. they meet in EP 5 more officially. The Master is introduced as a cliff hanger in the end of Ep4. On that note, I think we really need to clarify what scene is being talked about.
I went into this on the assumption the argument is backing the supposed problem that the Jedi as a whole should now be aware of the Sith and that Sol should have been aware of it before the interaction with the Master between the end of Ep 4 and through Ep 5.
I apologize for completely misjudging that if I have done so.