DC20 Kickstarter Q&A #3
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2024
- I wanted to start these up to answer some questions about the DC20 Kickstarter and make sure everyone knows what is going on ASAP! ⏬ More Below⏬
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#DC20 - Hry
I saw a Comment on one of the Thousands DC20 Videos that said : DC20 are probably not the DND Killer but a Love Letter to a Toxic Ex. I think it’s only partially true. DC20 is a Love Letter to all ttrpg. Please keep up the good work and thanks for what you create already.
Nice, good to take a moment, that was wise.
Hey my dude. I backed the Project! Good luck to you! Looking forward to seeing DC20 grow!
I’m so pleased Alan, that you, Sara and the kids got away for the camping 🏕️ trip. Love you guys ♥️
DC20 is and will be the premier Fantasy TTRPG of 2025. Alpha has been amazing and Beta is going to be a critical piece of the mix. And the game will be a huge hit in the TTRPG marketplace. ❤
This game is the best piece of news in the TTRPG community since BECMI came out
I had a dream a couple of days ago where I came home from work and my DC20 book had been delivered. The deluxe cover looked incredible and it was 344 pages, looking forward to find out if I can see the future 😂😮
For the ALGORITHM!!!
Love how well the Kickstarter is doing.
Looking forward to getting my sticky mitts on that realio truelio hardcover book 🖐️ 😁 🤚
💜🐲💜
Can't wait, game is looking good.
Love it coach!
Beyond excited for this new chapter of TTRPGs.
Missed the live (meetings at work), had a couple questions:
1. Will DC20 be at PAX West?
2. Will DC20 magazine only be available for patrons or can we purchase issues a la carte? Finances too tight for monthly support, unfortunately, but happy to be able to do PDF core rules on Kickstarter.
Enjoying watching the growth, can’t wait to see how much it gathers and excited for the game!
A Skill Thesaurus that mapped other system’s skill names to DC20 skills would be a welcome addition to the manual.
Regarding Paladin and Spellblade, having Paladin be a subclass of Spellblade maes a lot of sense. That is how I was doing ot for my Savage Worlds adaption.
Might, Agility, Spirit, Mind.
I was just at Game Con Canada sharing the Kickstarter with anyone that I could.
Thanks for that! It’s people like you that help grow this community! You rock!
That is Grievous (multi-arm)!
I can’t believe people have been donating $100+ on average. Truly show how amazing this project is
I do think there is a bit of an Acronym Overload. AP, SP, MP, PD, PDR, MD, MDR. For simplicity, use the Heart with the letters “HP” within it strategy. For example: for the Mana and Stamina symbols just have a M and S with a circle around it. I know a lot of people find it difficult when people try to replace the entire word with just an image. Using a letter and a similar image between both resources helps new players. Circle would mean “Oh it’s a class resource” while the letters within give specifics. a Shield image with a P and M is “Oh that’s means defense”. I would keep Action point just the letters AP though, it’s basic, and a focus for everyone. As for PDR and MDR idk, but keep it simple. You don’t want to force players to memorize 10 unique images each representing a different thing because that doesn’t solve the problem, it just moves it.
You could always take a negative stat point from a race to lower the 3 by one for extra ancestry points and to make the character more middle of the road, if that's what you want ;)
Just hit 1.4!! Get those minions updating the Kickstarter woot woot!
Will it have a different system to rank monsters (CR) and a way to balance combat?
48:00 How I would do attunement is to have Attunement Points that vary by item (so it is not binary, one might be 1 point, another be 2 or even 4, dependent on what it does). A character has a Maximum Attunement Points.
Love this idea! 💜
Attunement Points = charter level (said without any testing or anything) seems an intuitive and simple way to do this. Limits powerful magic items to higher levels, and means you may have to choose between attuning to a 4 point item or 4x 1 point items - which is better for you?
Maybe max 10 at level 10, and probably item level max 5 points.
So at lvl 10, 2x 5point, or 2x 4 + 1x 2, or 1x 4 + 2x 3, etc…
Obviously items would need to be balanced, but liking this idea as a starting point.
I am not sure if I would go 1 or 2 per level. It depends on how the values end up. I would think that any item that is not a consumable would need attunement, so a very minor item would be worth 1. With that in mind, I would think that 2 per level is good. I saw the Dungeon Coach say, it might be in this video, that an item would do up to a talent. Say a talent is 4, how much would it affect game balance to have two, or even three? I guess it depends on how detailed the value can be versus simple classifications. DC20 seems to be more for simple levels of 1 to 5, so that is probably the way to go. With that in mind, 1 per level is probably a good way to do it, and matches other math in the game.
As a thought on damage scaling...the most important thing it imo is time to kill (TTK). If at level 1 an equivalent enemy takes on average 2 rounds to kill, but at level 10 it's 5 rounds and at 20 it takes 10 rounds because HP scales way higher than damage, that makes high level combat a slog. It doesn't need to be as fast as level 1, but it should be in the same general area, however that is tweaked.
So one rule I’m not keen on after reading it, is that heavy/brutal/etc hits bypass Damage Reduction.
As someone who often plays a tank, I find it super limiting, as I can’t stack DR yo make a cool damage soak tank that soaks all the incoming hits.
I’ll be forced to play a high ac class instead and avoid getting hit.
My solution to the problem is instead of heavy/brutal/etc hits bypassing DR, only Crits bypass DR.
I think it also makes more sense.
For example, yes you get a perfect dead centre hit on the rhino, but still, its thick skin absorbs some of the damage.
You still get the +1/2/3/4 for the heavy hit, DR 1/2/3 is not going to negate how awesome the hit is, but the player who has the DR also gets to think, thank god for my high DR, that would be so much scarier.
And Crits would be even cooler, and more special.
Anyway, I hope you agree with my tweak, would love to hear what you think.
I think crits and Brutal is ok . Heavy really should not bypass DR thats how i am running it and feels a lot better.
symbols for Mana, Stamina and Action points also makes Translation to other languages easier
There was a blurb in ancestry about having secondary ancestry traits being a magic item.. I like the idea of creating magic items based on points from ancestry
Example lame hammer of Dragon’s breath where you can use the Dragon breathing feature but you have the short legs penalty so the total point value is +1
Heres a way you could put two of the great classic d&d feats into your game:
Expertise: you may elect to get advantage on an attack, however your heavy/brutal increments are 7 instead of 5
Power attack: you may elect to make an attack at disadvantage, in exchange, your heavy/brutal are increments of 3.
I think this is a potentially great way to make increase/decrease hits with inverse gains/penalties to damage.
I'm not against the idea of the system but on a surface level, it seems to need revisions.
(Dis)advantage is roughly worth 3.4 on average for a d20, bringing disadvantage from an average of 10.5 down to 7.1 and advantage from 10.5 up to 13.9.
With this in mind and no other factors it would seem taking the bonus damage loss and hit with advantage is generally better than taking an accuracy loss, risk not hitting at all and the damage increment is not that significant.
Lets take an example:
Target AC: 13
Your attack roll = 1d20 + 3 (the primary attribute bonus, which the example rules say a level 1 character should have +3)
Without any dis- or advantage, you need to roll a 10 or higher to hit ~ 55% hit rate
With advantage that changes to ~80% hit rate
With disadvantage that is ~30% hit rate
Quick reference: statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2014/07/12/dnd-5e-advantage-disadvantage-probability/
For the advantage to grant +1 bonus damage you need to roll 17+, ~36% chance
For the disadvantage to grant +1 bonus damage you need to roll 13+, ~16% chance. To grant +2 bonus damage you need to roll 16+, ~6% chance. +3 damage ~1% (although right now they have it stop at +2).
If we consider critical strikes as a natural 20, that's 0.2% chance for disadvantage and 9.8% for advantage. The current available rule samples says critical hits apply a static +2 bonus damage. Thus it would seem a lot more beneficial to roll with advantage than disadvantage, through this system.
Now to give the idea some merit, in DC20 you can stack dis- and advantage sources, cancelling each other out 1-for-1, and whatever remains adds that many die to cast in addition and then depending on which end you either gleefully pick the highest or pick the lowest in sadness. Meaning 3x sources of advantage and 1x source of disadvantage leads to 2x advantage and the rolling of 3x d20, picking the highest result. In DnD 5e you don't do math on stacks and simply say "do I only have dis- or advantage sources? If yes, then apply +1d20 to roll. If not then roll per standard."
This idea for DC20 means you can effectively weaponize advantage to trade 1x d20 roll for easier access to Heavy hits, especially interesting for characters with already high accuracy and/or attack riders that triggers on a Heavy hit. On the other end of the spectrum a character with relative low base accuracy is unlikely to get heavy hits in the first place and would gladly trade their heavy hit potential for the increased accuracy to hit at all.
Without having much context in terms of what is available in terms of gaining advantage, Heavy hit triggers, or suffering disadvantage it is difficult to judge. But in a vacuum it seems to favor gaining advantage through this system.
@@m.r.r.2636 except your underselling the advantage disadvantage system. factors like Damage reduction make expertise potentially do no damage, and power attack could be combined with another way to gain advantage to negate the penalty.
The idea behind it is to make it dynamic, so sometimes normal attacks are best, sometimes increased accuracy but less damage is best, and sometimes wildly swinging with less accuracy to really do large damage is best.
@@hardcorehakon I don't believe I undersold it. I said the system have some merit in weaponizing advantage and for players with little chance of acquiring the necessary threshold to attain Heavy hits, gaining advantage on the attack roll seems beneficial. The reason I said it needed revision is because trading your only ADV for lower thresholds on Heavy Hit seems ill advised compared to attacking with ADV (aka not using the mechanic) which is more likely to hit the threshold and increase your ability to critical hit.
Basically you're only interested in trading 1x ADV, when you have multiple stacks of ADV (and don't have a reason to go specifically for crits). Depending on how easy ADV is to attain this option can be good or forgettable (I see maneuver Expose grants one ADV for 1 AP, skill action Feint may grant another for 1 AP - although that's AGI dependent).
If you don't have any ADV, you're mainly interested in gaining ADV and don't care about Heavy Hit, unless the target has terrible AC.
As for damage reduction I've only so far seen a 1 PDR on player accessible Heavy Armor and on the Monster guide it said to use PDR sparingly. So I wouldn't put too much value on Heavy hits bypassing damage reductions, unless it goes the DnD 5e route of non-magical physical damage reductions as a relative frequent thing in tier 2 play and close to common in tier 3+, AND that magical weapons are not as common to acquire, which would surprise me.
Hello Coach, I hope that your day finds you well. I feel a huge part that is missing in D&D I have always been wishing for. Have you ever given any thought to building a crafting system.
Attunement might be nice if its based on skill or other check to link to items powerful enough to have its own agenda/opinion ... and the mix gives DC to hold team together. Then have fun of magic users able to attack those connections as a debuff...
i guide for converting DnD moonster and moduels to DC20 would be so cool
and a subclass for Spellblade cut be captain a leader og for the fighter
Sorry I hade No time watching the stream so my question is maybe already answered. Are you planning to make any free Stuff like the corerule book in DnD beyond
I have only two questions for d20:
Are there gonna be a Blood hunter and a Witch class?
What races (sorry ancestories) are available in general?
1. Yes, bloodhunter is a subclass of Spellblade, witch will be the warlock (just check it out and I think you’ll love it)
2. Human, elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome, orc, giantborn, Dragonborn, fiend born, angelborn, beast born (and 4 more)
@TheDungeonCoach if you use symbols for Mana and Stamina, have a plan for how that will work with screen-readers for the visually impaired folk.
Will there be some sort of occult slayer? A martial who specializes in facing against spell casters. Are there talents in the game that allow this? 5e just had mage slayer feat, and later monster slayer ranger and watchers paladin, but 3.5 had special materials plus multiple feats and classes.
Do you plan on being at Gary Con 2025?
Was traveling fro Minneapolis to Washington DC, so missed it all. I am very curious if the Patreon will have more upper level slots available for membership soon(ie Gold or Platinum)?
💜
Symbols for each type of Points would be MUCH APPRECIATED 🫡
Dang! Missed it!
I saw something about how rogues get sneak attack damage when flanking or when hiding...or something like that.
Does it stackif both conditions happen?
Non-magic Rangers is the best way. I hate the class having magic by default.
So far I can tweak most rules to fit theater of the mind, but the falling/pushing into obstacle rules seem custom made for gridded maps. Any Idea how to adapt that one?
Does anyone knows if the strech goals that add content to PDFs (PDF Collection Addons PDF Upgrade) cout for the "All Digital Content" pleadge or only if you by the Addons?
33:00 wouldn't a poster (or mini) poster be cool for the cover art? It could only come in poster form with the limited time edition.
On kickstarter I see that there is a $30 tier with only rules PDF and $95 with monsters, magic items, etc. Does this mean that the core rules, unlike player's handbook, won't contain any items/monsters/crafting mechanics, etc? So $30 is basically a pure rulebook and if I want to get a complete collection this would be $95, correct?
What tier on Patreon will get us the DC20 Magazine each month?
Found the answer: At the moment, it is set to the Adult Purple Dragon Tier ($15) but the Dungeon Coach wants to bring that down to potentially the Egg tier ($5) or the Young Purple Dragon Tier ($10) to start to reduce the barrier to entry based on all the support he's received for the Kickstarter and since the first few editions will likely be lighter as he puts the majority of his effort into ensuring the core rules are developed and polished.
Wake me up when this man misses💤
Hahaha this made me laugh, what an epic compliment, thanks dude!!
Two considerations about skills and stacking temporary hit points:
Skill checks: are often not balanced out against each others, resulting in some skills becoming more a roleplay skill and not a gameplay relevant skill.
For 5e that's often the case for something like Acrobatics (and to a degree Athletics), Sleight of Hand, Animal Handling, Performance, and my personal pet peeve: Medicine.
I hope DC20 will do more to make them feel equally as valuable as something like Knowledge Arcana/Religion.
The reason I pick these out of DnD 5e's list of skills is because movement based skills are not often utilized in combat situations with the exception of Grapple - which often doesn't make sense for a PC compared to dealing a weapon blow. And outside combat you're often restricted by your party, so while it's awesome that the Barbarian (and not the Rogue) can scale a wall and escape, the rest of the party don't have that option. Later in the game spells cover a lot of the benefits of these movement based skills as well - often through Fly.
Sleight of Hand has a potency to provide too much value if unchecked around magical item shops and thus GMs very often heavily restrict what a Rogue can pilfer without being noticed. And if they do get a big score, the GM has every available ressource to have the robbed hunt down the players or the GM have them somehow lose the easy acquired power/wealth. In conclusion; it nets a little bit of extra wealth, but is hardly ever that relevant, unless the plot caters to it.
Animal Handling is... just very niche because mounts are not a core mechanic. Could have very big beast-companion synergies to make it relevant for DC20.
Performance has a very similar feel to Sleight of Hand. Not very scalable, so just adds a bit of extra wealth. Not a part of DC20's skill list but packed under Artistry. Wonder how that will work out.
Medicine is just inferior to magical healing both in and out of combat. A majority of the skill can be substituted for a healing potion.
I'll single out Medicine because I think it needs to be more of a major player in health recovery during rests, especially since long rests in DC20 is not an automatic full heal. In DC20 there's even restrictions on who you can treat (needs to be bloodied, or equal to or less than half health), the check is DC 10 Medicine with 10 on the check healing 1 HP and every +5 on check is +1 healing. A charge for a First Aid Kit costs 5g and a 2 HP Healing Potion costs 10g, requires no skill, can be used in combat for full healing effect, can stabilize dying creatures without the risk of failure. In short Medicine in DC20 is pretty poor, dare I say even worse than 5e, as it has been for most TTRPGs.
Temporary hit points: don't stack in DnD 5e and neither are they planned to stack for DC20. I would urge you to reconsider this, but disallow stacking from the same source. So if a character builds to gain temporary hit points from multiple sources to survive or tank, I'd say let them do it. In 5e terms lets say you get the spell False Life, add Inspiring Leader, add spell Armor of Agathys. If we say modifier is +3 and a Warlock then we're looking at (1d4 +4 // 8) + (1 + 3) + (5 x 1) for a total of 17 temporary hit points and the use of a once per long rest Feat, and two spells (lets say Warlock who has access to free False Life so only one spell slot). That's possible for a level 1 character (well in 5.5e, in 5e you first get invocations on level 2). Now lets take that same character at level 10 with mod +4: (1d4 + 4 // 8) + (10 + 4) + (5 x 5) = 45 temporary hit points, at the use of a 5th level Warlock spell slot or at the cost of not casting Sickening Radiance or Synaptic Static.
In comparison a 10th level Paladin has a healing pool for Lay on Hands at 50 health by this point.
Temporary hit points from multiple sources doesn't seem like an unbalanced mechanic.
I just saw that putting skill points into Knowledge skills grants you a bonus skill point to put into a Knowledge skill... It's already a very useful skill-group, to learn how to deal with enemies and to advance the plot.
I'm tempted to ask for every skill point into Medicine, you also get a skill point into Knowledge Nature. Every second skill point into Medicine also grants a skill point into Survival. Thus the medic knows about plants and they get a slight advantage to forage for herbs.
(1/4)
Next up, to make Medicine itself more interesting and less bad:
Current actions available:
In combat:
You can spend 1 AP to touch a creature and tend to its wounds.
Make a DC 10 Medicine Check.
Success: You stop its Bleeding or Stabilize it (your choice).
Success (each 5): The creature gains +1 Temp HP.
Out of combat:
Medicine
Medicine covers activities that involve medical knowledge and
application, such as treating a wounded creature, diagnosing
an illness, or identifying a cure to an ailment.
• Treat Wound: Attempting to mend or stabilize a wounded
creature.
• Diagnose Cause: Attempting to discern the cause or cure of a
poison, disease, or injury.
• Forensics: Attempting to determine the cause or time of a
creature’s death.
First Aid Kit (FAK):
A First Aid Kit is full of supplies and tools such as ointments,
tinctures, bandages, and other medicinal reagents. A fully
stocked kit contains 5 charges, which can be spent to
treat a creature's wounds or cure an ailment by taking the
Object Action.
Treat Wounds: You treat a Bloodied creature's wounds. Make
a DC 10 Medicine Check. Success: Target creature regains 1
HP. Success (each 5): The creature regains +1 HP.
Cure Ailment: You treat a Disease or Poison (of your choice)
afflicting the target. Make a Medicine Check against the DC
of the Disease or Poison. Success: You neutralize 1 Disease
or Poison afflicting the target. Success (each 5): The creature
regains +1 HP.
Refilling a First Aid Kit
The reagents and bandages contained within the kit can
be found in most towns and climates. Enough supplies for
1 charge can be bought for 5g at a general store or found
using a Rest Action scavenged from an appropriate climate
(GM's discretion) with a DC 15 Survival Check. Success: The
kit regains 1 charge. Success (each 5): The kit regains +1
additional charge.
(I have to divide this up into further comments or CZcams gets mad)
(2/4)
Comments:
In combat is not really a place where Medicine shines, but it could have some merit. It's a little difficult to know if you cannot take the medicine action to treat a non-bleeding/non-dying creature or if you could potentially just use it as a means to pat some Temp HP on someone.
Regardless a skill point into medicine grants 2/5th of a Temp HP on average, which is a terrible progression and seems to quickly lose its meaning due to lack of scaling into higher tier play.
Out of combat you get the usual disease treatment which often can be substituted or treated better through magic. I don't know exactly where that falls within DC20's mechanics, but I imagine Clerics can easily cure diseases just like how Paladin can easily cure poison/diseases in 5e.
You add the forensics roleplay aspect where you can determine a creature's cause of death and rough estimate on time since passing. Interesting bit of roleplay but neither very useful that I would argue a Survival check could also cover.
The First Aid Kit is where DC20 loses me. You put a restriction on who you can treat (bloodied /
(3/4)
Suggested changes:
- First of all lets get rid of the condition that you can only use a First Aid Kid (FAK) on a Bloodied person (
(4/4)
Consequence of these suggestions:
This means at level 1 with +3 INT and a Skill Point in Medicine, using a FAK during a Short/Long Rest you can heal: 1 - 4 (Roll for successes / 1.7 on average) + 1x1 (Skill Mastery scaling) + 1 (Having Skill Mastery) = 3 - 6 HP recovery during a Short/Long Rest, averaging at 3.7 HP.
During a quick rest with a FAK, you can heal: 1 - 4 (Roll for successes) + 1 (Having Skill Mastery) = 2 - 5 HP or 2.7 on average
Rolling 4 or less on the check will still result in a failed treatment, but the Skill Mastery baseline could still apply the 1 healing, so it at least have done something.
Medicine action during combat is mainly to cost-free stabilize or stop bleeding on creatures.
Medicine action as part of a Rest Action can heal: 0 - 3 (Roll for successes) + 1 (Having Skill Mastery) = 1 - 4 HP or 1.9 on average
A level 5 character with +4 INT and 2 Skill Points into Medicine, using a FAK during a Short/Long Rest you can heal: 1 - 4 (Roll for successes / 2.3 on average) + 2x1 (Skill Mastery scaling) + 1 (Having Skill Mastery) = 4 - 7 HP recovery during a Short/Long Rest, averaging at 5.3 HP.
During a quick rest with a FAK, you can heal: 1 - 4 (Roll for successes) + 1 (Having Skill Mastery) = 2 - 5 HP or 3.3 on average.
Medicine action as part of a Rest Action can heal: 0 - 3 (Roll for successes) + 1 (Having Skill Mastery) = 1 - 4 HP or 2.3 on average.
We're not stepping on combat healing Clerics and neither are we providing insane amounts of healing compared to a healing Cleric (which can be considered as 3 MP x Cleric Level x 3 Healing per MP). We're limited by our FAK charges (5x per kit), Rest Actions/Points (PC lvl + Might) and the amount of Rests we can benefit from per day (5 rests).
First Aid Kits can more easily be foraged for if you spec into a non-magical healer, making it at least less costly than Healing Potions, giving the Medicine skill more value.
You naturally get some nature knowledge when you invest into Medicine. That's considering that if you invest into knowledge you also gain a bonus skill point to put into more knowledge.
28:30 symbols are good in some places, but in the middle of text they are terrible
Agreed. They also present significant accessibility issues if you don’t think ahead. Like turn on the screen reader functionality in acrobat and see what it sounds like
What was the live play mentioned
Peak DnD? But they are doing Peak D20.
He talks about it at 21:00
19:00 So, he is not corporate scum, he is realistic and wise: putting money back into it is better than hoarding money while you put out a terrible product.
Dude I didn't read whatever license you're releasing this under but you should be aware that WotC won't hesitate to steal your ideas when they get scared of how successful DC20 can be and you probably should make sure they can't do that. I know this is a sensitive topic considering what WotC has tried in the past but stopping the BBEG from grabbing your loot while still allowing others to benefit would probably be a good idea. Just saying.
He’s said it will be released under the ORC license.
Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on your POV), game mechanics and basic mathematics can’t be patented or copyrighted. So a lot of the basic game mechanics can’t really be protected as IP. Descriptions and lore are very protectable OTOH.