Council Tool Boy's Axe After Cutting 1/3rd Cord of Firewood, Review
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- čas přidán 16. 01. 2017
- After using the Council Tool Boy's Axe to cut about 1/3rd Cord of wood, I have a few things to say about it for this review. It is a good bargain and a nice axe.
Council Boy's Axe: amzn.to/2izcOiZ
The Axe Cordwood Challenge Playlist: • Cordwood Challenge
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Standard gear I recommend. I either use or have used all of it.
Council Tool Boys Axe: amzn.to/3z0muqI
Bahco Farmer's File: amzn.to/3Hbdhij
King two sided sharpening stone: amzn.to/32EX1XC
Silky f180 saw: amzn.to/3yZzM71
ARS 10 foot long reach pruner: amzn.to/3esETmM
Victorinox grafting/floral knife: amzn.to/3Jki1E9
Wiebe 12” fleshing tool: amzn.to/3sB0qSl
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I got the Council tool Boy's axe recently and used it quite a lot to cut firewood. It needs a little work out of the box. The bit is much too rough and blunt to chop effectively and must be ground or filed and polished to cut well. It took me about an hour to file the axe. The handle was very nice, but had a varnish that has to be scraped off. I also thinned the axe handle quite a bit until it suited me. It is a little bit light for a firewood axe, but it is good enough and is also enjoyable to use. The thick paint over the head and onto the bit has to be partially removed before filing or sharpening. I think this is an okay axe to use for the cordwood challenge. Again, it is a light axe, but that means you can lift is over and over without fatigue. Short axes may be considered a little more dangerous than long ones, but they are also more accurate. Light axes are generally also easier to be accurate with, but they do require giving the axe head more momentum. I'd prefer to recommend an axe between 2.5 and 2.75 lb for a beginning firewood axe, but they are uncommon or expensive. This axe is cheap enough that you don't have to be super careful with it.
Really great video. You're my favorite hipster lumberjack youtuber.
ha ha. Well, sometimes you need a nice red wool shirt so you don;t get run over in the crosswalk. And it can be chilly work sitting in a cafe for hours on end.
True Story...
Deer can't see green or red very well. The checkerboard pattern breaks up a hunter's outline. It's the original man-made camo that's worked for years before Mossy Oak & Realtree came down the pike.
You'd be even more hipster with a matching Elmer Fudd hat.
Deer see green very well....
LOL!
Love your philosophy on just getting an axe and getting to work. You can read and take other's opinions all day, but nothing takes the place of experience. Just do something! Thanks for keeping it practical SkillCult
EXACTLY.
I have kind of an agenda with the cordwood challenge and putting this stuff out, which is to force internet axe and tool content in that direction. It will happen anyway as the userbase and creator base both become more experienced and sophisticated and start to naturally raise the bar. I just want to force it forward faster. I think it will work honestly, judging by the comments here, even if my viewer base is low. I also don't think it will take that long, since people improve very fast with just a little bit of consistent practical chopping, or take that many CWC participants to have an impact. Just providing a small amount of contrast will probably have a pretty big effect ultimately. If there were a bunch of people on youtube at the level of say Mors Kochanski and Dudley Cook, I'd feel like I had to up my game or just stay out of it so I didn't look like a dumbass. Hopefully that is where we're headed.
You should do a Q&A series. It would be called, of course, Axe Me Anything.
just came across your channel. I like the way you present the information in a real world format. nothing flashy.Thanks for the info.
Lovin your honesty. It's very refreshing in this day and age. Keep up the great content, advice and guidance. Thanks for sharing. John
I'm ordering The Axe Book from your store. You have dramatically increased my interest in axes. I spend a lot of time with the Scouts and I want to keep them safe and productive. Thank you for all your work. I used to think your videos were too long, but now I appreciate your brain and analytics.
I struggle with the video length thing. Can't please everybody, so I just do what I think I should do and see if it sticks. You'll like the axe book :)
That opening rant speaks to my heart.
I want to thank you for explaining this axe. This was very helpful. Keep it up
I got the aluminum wedge out last night. Just had to whittle the shoulder a little, jump the head on another 1/8 inch and get in there with a cold chisel. I jumped the head on about 3/8 further than original total, so hopefully the weakened wood is more covered up now and the handle will last a little while if I'm careful.
Thanks for the update, keep us posted on how it goes for you. I am kicking around the idea of one of these or a forest service version to go with my vintage plumb, kinda see how they compare
Thanks for the update
Is this the 24 or 28 inch handle?
How I got mine out was to drill a hole in it. Screw in a tapping metal screw half way in then simply pulled the wedge out with a claw hammer.
Thank you for the wisdom you spread; Amazing job! Looking forward to more videos to come.
They're coming!
Great video. Keep them coming-- I need more skillcult. More axes, more splitting, a few more hemp rants, more day-in-the-life of Mr. Skillcult videos.
Noted!
Concur. I enjoy the 'rants'; interesting. Too many use words to ill effect.
Thank God for you and your great channel. There are few BS free channels left. Keep up the great work!
Another excellent video. I liked your explanation of small axe vs. big axe.
Thanks.
appreciate the research on head grinding. I recently found a council tool 3.5 lb head at a hardware store for $27-$35 depending on the handle. For some reason the best haft and handle was the cheapest so I couldn't pass it up. I am mostly cutting oak, and most of it was standing dead, so i'm hoping the extra weight will help bite through it. Will attempt to film, but for your sake wont pretend to be good at that. Good stuff as always, thanks.
Dry oak will make you get your act together! Just adopt a system and go about patiently executing it as well as possible. You can't fight that kind of wood. Just peck away at it. Not only will it be more efficient, but it will be a lot more enjoyable to adapt or humble yourself to the work. Read comment that Larry Duttry just left here czcams.com/video/lBgKcivSqdw/video.html Very few new axes chop well out of the box and need major shaping and finish work. It's hard to find good info on it. I don't understand it that well.
The Boys axe that I have had for 40 years is a True Temper Boys axe. I had to put a new handle in it a few years ago and hung it with a nice hickory 27” handle. I did give my daughter a Council Tools Boys axe a few years ago. It has served her well. I do have aGFB Scandinavian Forest Axe. I use my True Temper and Scandinavian Forest axes as wedge bangers for my chainsaws. At 79, I don’t do a lot of tree cutting with an axe, any more. My favorite felling axe is my 50 year old True Temper 4# axe. It has had many handles in it over its life time.
when I worked for the Forest service in the Bob Marshall wilderness in Montana, we could only use axe's be and cross cut saw's. the old boy that showed us how to sharpen an axe told us to lay a file from the pull to the edge. the file should make contact with the head for 2-3 inches for a felling axe and 1-2 for a limbing or camp axe. the edge should have a steeper grind than the body of the axe just for longer use before touch up. just how I was tought 27 years ago. works well for me. Great video.
Very interesting. So was that whole area flat then for two to three inches back of the edge in the plane extending from poll to bit? Also, was the very end near the edge still rounded off? still rounded off to a convex? Also, what about convexity from side to side?
SkillCult the flat was up to near the edge. the axe edge was sharpened at a different angle. are dubbel bit felling axe's were sharpened this way, you could sink the head almost to the eye on pine. two people could cut down a 18 inch Lodge pole pine in about a minute. you would have to pull the axe out at times. but we were felling with crosscut and axe. the axe was to make the wedge meeting with the cut from the cross-cut saw so your chip always broke out. even with out the saw, the axe was deadly.
Was the second small bevel at the edge rounded or flat ground? Sounds awesome. I'm intrigued. Were you working pretty much in soft woods all the time?
SkillCult it was a flat grind done with a fine stone to shave sharp. the cutting edge bevel to the edge was about 1/8 - 3/16 inch wide 20 - 25 degree. the he edge was easy to damage if you hit the ground with the edge, but it was sharpened to cut wood not dirt. Yes the wood we cut was mainly soft wood pine, fur, spruce, hemlock, cedar, some hardwoods like Birch, Aspen and some ash. But mainly soft pine. the limbing axe had a much steeper edge that was stronger so it could hit the dirt once and not be done in for. I enjoy your videos, hope to have a chunk of land with a tiny house and small farm on it in the next few years.
Man trail work in the Bob was a good time. Its awesome having horses carry all the tools though.
Really great work Steven!
I appreciate you sharing your in-depth & informed opinions.
Any chance you will review the scythe in 2017?
Ihope to start using a scythe again this year, but I really have to make a new snath first. I don't know enough about them to review one. I would recommend looking at the Vido's website, scytheconnection and at Fourty two blades youtube channel. I love using a scythe, they have to be well sharpened and tuned though.
Thanks for the tip. Hoping you find some scythe time this year....!
You really are a night owl. When do you sleep? :)
I'm glad it served you well!! I think Boys Axes are way under utilized and under appreciated these days... but they are making a come back...especially with videos like this that encourage people to try them out... Now we have to get you the shorter 24" version of the Council Boys Axe..
Peace, Rooster :)
I like this axe. I'd like to find something like it that has more of the old American fat factory bit so I can play with different grind strategies and compare them side by side. I just got the Snow and Neally boy's axe, and it's very disappointing handle-wise. I don't think the head is worth 70.00! The grind is already fairly narrow too. I'm thinking that those old American axes were left fat as a grind-to-suit approach. The council could almost be that. There was plenty on the bit area, but it's ground pretty hollow just back a little.
I start to feel pretty limited and uncomfortable doing general work with anything over 30 and under 26 inches. I'm not sure I've ever owned a 24 inch axe though. I've used 25 a lot and I am comfortable enough with it, but it always feels a tad short. Still working out my ideal length, but it's going to be around 29 to 27, which is around Kochanski's arm pit to fist recommendation.
That shirt is awesome, for sure.
And that haircut, ready for you and Ragnar to go out for a weekend of pillaging. Viking power!!!
Council tools make great products, I have their woodcraft axe and it's a great little axe, looking to get their Jersey pattern next. The "knob" at the end of the handle is the Palm swell, thanks for the video!
haha. Awesome intro! I grew up hunting with my dad and we all wore red and black plaid so I know what you mean
Dan, I living the State of Wyoming USA and might like to get 2 burner assemblies! I'm going to be building a new gas forge as the one I have was given to me by a good friend MANY years ago and though, I have relined it with KAO Wool it still doesn't give me the heat I want! The new one will have more room but will be MASSIVELY insulated so, also, the one I have is a single burner and I want double burner forge!
I love the burners you ar making and if you can get the venturis down on price by buying more, I'll help by buying 2!
Thanks! I always love your vids and I ALWAYS learn something! I'm 69 and disabled but I van still make some knives and Mountain Man Rendezvous items and sell them, there! It gives me a reason to go and do something love!
Best wishes for contiued success!
BTW, below is a rant about getting unsubscribed! Not your fault, I know but if you can bitch at CZcams, please do! I'm sure it's THEM that keep unsubscribing me!
Love your videos
Great review man. Thanks for all the information well put. Could you recommend a smaller 18 to 20” hatchet or axe to compliment this boys axe?
That is a size of axe I'm not too fond of, so I really can't. I like light/normal weight hatchets on a 16 inch handle, but they are hard to find. Or I would go with something like the hults/husqvarna/gransfors forest axes which are basically all around compromises, but with a decently long 25 to 26 inch handle. If you can carry that length, it buys you a lot in comfort, effectiveness and safety. Actually, you might look at the council woodcraft back axe. I think it's closer to a boy's axe size than a hatchet. I've never seen one in person, but I think they make a short one.
Thank you for this very informative video. ☺💛
I'm happy to hear you're not a hipster!
Great video, with plenty of good information. I understand why they use those absolutely useless aluminum wedges, but I still think if nothing else they are a waste of resources. If my head comes loose, I drill out the old wedge and reseat the head and rewedge. Out of several that have came loose on me only one was able to be removed, saving a beautiful handle. So if you can't get it out, and you cut the handle and rehaft it, there was a waste of aluminum and hickory, when a hickory or ash wedge would have held better to begin with and is repairable. More people need to contact Council about it, because all of the tools I have gotten have had the head slip in the first use. Again, a very useful, informative review about a tool that hasn't had a lot of good, real world, heavy use reviews.
It must be cost/efficiency. It certainly doesn't do a better job. I should have jumped the head on another 1/8 inch and taken it out immediately, but I got impatient.
I'm not having any luck finding a 2-1/4 bit close by, and I've been thinking about CT. You've helped, thanks.
It's a good axe and the seem reasonably consistent with the handles. Hard to beat when it frequently goes as low as 30.00 on amazon. It fluctuates all the time, but the cheapest seller seems to be baileys. If they dont' have it on Amazon, you might look on their website. They probably get them cheaper for buying in quantity since they are such a major player. That's my guess anyway.
$25, and free shipping. Already thinking of how to get the wedge out...
A while back we had discussed your book (and saving me a copy). Mad money in my pocket, how do I buy a copy?
Wow, that's so cheap. Is that amazon or baileys? Make sure it's the 28 inch model though, there is a shorter version, I think 22 inch. It's best to just order my book off the paleotechnic's website. That is the only place it is probably for sale unless someone on amazon has a stray copy left. www.paleotechnics.com/catalogpages/tanningbookspage.html#Anchor-BUCKSKIN-42335
..I value your opinion on steel quality very highly... thank you very much for that..
Been a while since I stopped by. Great video! I sure wish I were in a position on some land and in my youth again to do the cordwood challenge with all you guys! I did the cordwood challenge when I was no older than 13 but it was with a piece of crap splitting maul and there was no CZcams to prove anything.... so, it didn't really happen. haha! 😆👍 I use to split wood for spending money for all the neighbors.
Well, there's a time and season for everything I guess.
So far... That would be Both of you guys!
Respect for the buffalo plaid... 😉👍. Subscribed!
What I like the best about your posts and the threads, is that all are centered on use. Ultimately that should be the focus of the discussion .
As I mentioned in your Husqvarna post, I'm looking for a Boy's Axe to do some close work, and to fell and limb a number of butt ugly, grid planted red maples that interfere with my ability to plant grain crops. I'll take a peek.
That is the idea. I'm very encouraged by the discussion here being toward practical stuff. Just what I want to see more of on the internet.
I bought a boys Axe a couple months ago that I'm thinking is an old council tool one , handle should be shipped later and it should do well
I have both the Council Tool Forest Service Edition Boy's Axe and their Velvicut Bad Boy's Axe. You thinned out the handle just like the Velvicut's handle. I have tons of hours on the FSE, but no time on the Velvicut and I'm not trying to preserve the Velvicut or anything like that, but I already have a Velvicut Hudson Bay by Council Tool that I use as my main camp axe. Besides, I LOVE using my FSE for heavier than Hudson Bay rated work.
I really have to use that Bad Boy's Velvicut. I love the FSE. I want to get one of the standard Boy's Axes and sand the handle and strip the head (like I did with my Council Tool camp axe). I've seen them as low as $27, but generally they come out to $45ish/shipped and it's well worth it considering Council Tools warranty service.
It's just a great working axe and I'd put it up against any boutique axe from across the pond any day for typical camp chores (splitting light chopping & felling, etc...).
I'd have to say that the FSE is noticeably better than the standard Boy's Axe because it's built to the Forest Service's standard, but like you said for most homeowner/camper use, the standard is more than enough. Homesteaders, farmers or more heavy users would be better served by the FSE.
As for the Velvicut Boy's Axe, it was shipped to me by mistake when I ordered a Velvicut Hudson Bay, but I ended up keeping it because it felt so sweet.
BTW, I totally agree with you regarding the forum rabbit holes and overglorification & deification of the Swedish boutique axes. Those arguments are usually had by people who don't actually use axes for a living (like I did for a couple for a couple of decades).
Nice observation on that standard Boy's Axe. I usually don't look at talking head videos (videos with more talking than field use), but I knowing you, I knew it'd be good stuff. Thanks chief.
--Yankee
BTW, see if Council Tool will warranty it for you.
My buddy did and he got a new one quickfast, no questions asked.
That's good input. This thing comes pretty rough for sure, but it stays sharp well enough to work and the handle was great so not much to complain about except the thick gooey paint and the annoying metal wedge. I read reviews of the forest service version on omaha knife.com and they weren't all that favorable. At least they didn't make it sound like much of an upgrade.
What's your take on the hudson's bay as a chopper. I don't remember mine fondly. I think it was my first axe and I got rid of it because I was tired of broken and loose handles. I'm sure a lot of those breaks were my fault, but I finally decided that the small eyes were not only causing the handle to be loose a lot, but contributing to breakage. I also just don't remember the balance being great for chopping. They sure look cool. I wanted one as soon as a I saw a picture while reading some camping book. By the time I got rid of mine I pretty much was left with the impression that it should be assigned to the scrap heap of history as a missing link between wrapped eye trade axes and American poll axes. I've been thinking I should revisit it now and see if my impressions hold.
Know anything new that is affordable and closer to 2.5 lbs? I haven't seen much. Helko has one, but they are too expensive.
Thanks. I got my FSE "after" 2 (that's two) Swedish wonderaxes failed me. I bought it at 1/2 price for $29 (SCORE!) and put it to work while I waited for my 2nd replacement boutique axe. I told them to forget it. I kept the Council Tool and never looked back.
When you read reviews about the FSE, just remember, you can't know the skill level and/or experience of the user and on top of that, how many "real" woodsmen to you know that run to a computer to talk about their axes (guys who depend on their axes for a living?).
I've seen great reviews on them, but even those I took with a grain of salt until I personally handled mine in 4 seasons. Never failed me and I tried to make it fail.
As for the Hudson Bays line, LOVE THEM for camping. I don't try to pretend that I have a felling axe, so they never fail me either. I use axes as intended. You won't see me trying to chop down a 12"+ tree with a 1.75# head on a 20" handle and make excuses as for why it can't get the job done. Right job/right tool.
Hudson Bays aren't for chopping (at least not anything bigger than it's head is long). They are camp axes, not land clearing axes or cord production axes. They're for clearing campsites, processing firewood for a night, quartering game (deer, furbearers, etc...), etc... which is what I've used them for and again, they've never failed me personally.
For chopping, I'd stick with the Dayton head of the Boy's Axe.
[But that's just my humble greenhorn opinion.]
I'm not a pack axe kind of guy. I too like them heavier myself with longer hafts (26" minimum). I don't know of anybody who's making a head bigger than 2.25#. They seem to just skip up to felling weight, UNLESS you check out a longer handled Council Tool Miner's Axe which are heavier than Boy's Axe heads on shorter hafts. Since Council Tool plays with lengths all the time, I don't know where they're at right now, but IIRC, they had a 24" version with almost/around 3.5#.
I'm going to make mine own with a 3# Connecticut Vintage Plumb that I have on a straight 26" handle for a winter project.
I do have a custom Liam Hoffman Camp Axe that comes in at 2.37# for the head on a 26" handle and that thing is sweet on big stuff. It thinks it's a felling axe and you don't feel like it's underpowered with that weight & length combo. After 2.25#, every little ounce counts and it's noticeable. I swung both my Velvicut and my Hoffman side by side and there's a much more noticeable difference.
One thing on the Hudson Bays, their eyes do require a special talent in rehanging. I had to rehang mine a few time after I first bought it as a freshly re-hung Norland with a 20" haft.
I gave up on that handle, bought a Council Tool Velvicut Hudson Bay handle at 28" (nice and thin like the old school axes were!) and rehung it from scratch instead of trying to work with someone else's hot mess. It took on the first try and is right as rain.
I just re-read and most of the complaints were about fit and finish on the stock FS axes. They will hand select one for an extra 10.00 making it 70.00 Still, this seems like a bargain at 38.00, though there is always the gamble of buying sight unseen on the internet. I got lucky.
I wish I'd collected more vintage heads over the years, but Im a cheapskate and I don't have the collector mentality. I'm already thinking I need to design a firewood axe. Need to set up my forge. I'm glad to hear good feedback on Liam's axe. I agree, 26 inch minimum for me too. I can get by on 25", but I'd really rather not and shorter than that would start to become annoying. 30 inches was a little long for me last year, just because I like to work up close on small wood especially. I'm about to make a locust handle at 29 inches for that soft swedish axe that I mentioned to see how that goes. It is 2-3/4 I really liked using that axe last year weight wise. My Council is actually 27", I might have forgot to say that.
It seems like council does a lot of putting the same head on various handles to make it look like they have more product. the jumps are big though, in handle length and weight. It's unfortunate that they have mostly very small or large axes and only one of what might be the best all purpose axe in this model, but running on the light side.
Wish I would have watched this years ago , Great video
Greetings. How does the Council handle profile compare to the Husky you were working on? Has the Council replaced the Husky? Getting lots of rain?
Way better. Thinner, more flexible, longer. I haven't used the husky since testing it out of the box. I don't like it. Until the handle is changed I won't use it. Probably wont' use it really until I mess with the head too. The council is quite a lot heavier too, closer to what I want for general use around here. Plenty of rain. Woke me up in violent torrents last night.
I've cut wood with my dad and brother good part of my teenage live hard work but I'm one who grew up using cheap axes and cheap wedge and muals that's how we heated are home but now we are older I use a pellet stove but I do have a fire place so I'm thinking on cutting to have firewood for that and my fire pit out back but I really like a fat handle cause that's what I grew up with now I just like having that feel of knowing I have something in my hand that I can grip onto and I do like long handles I think cause I also grew up using so many long handled tools I guess cause there cheaper to buy not much thought put into them but also now I like it short handles just bug me kinda irritate me but to each there own methods. love your videos gives me more to look for in a god axe I thought just Any axe would do the job till watching you talk in great detail about them I have alot to learn but getting good info from your videos thanks buddy
Definitely a lot of our preferences are from familiarity. I feel funny with long axes for general work, especially bucking.
and thanks :)
SkillCult I've never bucked anything in my life you brought to life new skills I could be using another reason I got back into axes is what if the gas pumps quit working well back to assess we'd go so I know they have many uses and wondered why I didn't have one was told if you found something that had at least 4 uses you should own it well that's true with the axe thanks again for all your knowledge you share it changes peoples life's gives someone like me that's grown up seeing one method Manny more options on the table and I really enjoy you being so thuro that means you care about three info your putting out to the people not to many out there like that so your one of many thanks.
I love the video and review. I ordered one to see, let's hope it's a good one. The videos you recommended show cutting a notch then starting again at 45 to get large chips going across to the original notch. Seemed like the best way to buck.
If you mean for bucking, you have to do something like that for large stuff, but for small stuff it's not necessary. Anything probably 8 inches and down I go straight for the full notch, sometimes more, but at some point it's less work to cut a smaller notch first. At least that's now I do it.
The axe came. The handle was awful. Horizontal grain at the end and almost all heartwood. Sending it back to try again.
The pinnacle of hipsterdom is when a hipster realizes hipsters are mainstream.
How did the hipster drown?
He fell into the mainstream.
How much does a hipster weigh?
An Instagram.
Thank you for sharing. Would you change your recommendation of 2.5 lb x 28 in for pulp wood if the user was 6’3”?
Probably a little. maybe 30" handle . Weight, not as much, but up to 3# maybe if you want to try a heavier axe. I think you still might do okay with 28" handle (really 27 when it's mounted). I can use a 25" handle, but it's not ideal, so 30" is probably good. You might hvae to make your own though.
that does look like a really comfy shirt. you get a lot of snow there? how much of the cord have you used so far?
Not much snow, but we've had quite a bit of freezing this year. It's still a pretty mild climate. We do get snow, but usually light and rarely sticks for more than a day. I've used most of a cord and will be out scrounging for standing dead trees to cut more for this year. That's because I don't have a door though. I need to build one. I just have blankets over the door right now. Normally I should burn far less than a cord most years if I had a decent dwelling. Hoping to upgrade soon. Mostly a matter of priorities.
like the way you swing an ax.accuracy is the thing,keep it in the groove and watch the big chunks fly.seen to many people on herewith chops all over the place.good job.
Definitely important. Between the strategy, tool, accuracy, technique and efficiency, I'd say the first three are probably tied as most important. czcams.com/video/zive7-DNyEA/video.html
Ordered through your link for Amazon. Arrived yesterday. Tested it out by splitting knot free firewood into kindling. I used a rubber mallet to get it started and then used the mallet to drive it through. Supported by a clean stump. After 10 minutes, I noticed a chip in the center of the edge that led into a 3mm crack that extended along the edge. Also, the handle grain orientation was perpendicular to the edge (the worst orientation per my understanding) Anyway I'm sending it back, but thought you should have some feedback as to quality control on this product. I'll get another one and hope for a better result.
Thank you for reporting back. I've heard quality complaints about the council budget line axes from other people as well. I hear they are good about returns. The grain orientation is controversial. I think whatever the case, it's not ever the major cause of handle breakage.
I really like my Council 3.5# Jersey. There are times when the axe head is already plummeting back towards the log before the chips from the prior swing hit the ground. Thinking hard about picking up a Velvicut Hudson Bay pattern from them. I enjoyed this review man, consider me subscribed.
Thanks. I don't like the hudson bay pattern myself. I had one for some years and finally gave up on it and moved on. They are really sexy looking, but the eye is too short and they are not the best choppers ever.
Hey have you seen the new Council Tool Flying Fox hatchet?
1.65lb head, 16" handle with a hardened hammer poll, proud hang/large hatchet eye, unpainted and council tools is marketing it as a camp hatchet/throwing axe, made in America and its backed by Council Tool's 20 year axe head guarantee.
They run for just $70 CAD so probably like $40-50 USD.
Would love to see you review one of them, from what i've seen council tools is doing some great things with the new "sports utility" axe line (I believe thats what its called) they also have a decently priced 25" dayton pattern axe but it doesnt have the hardened poll and the handles seem to be vary nicely made like vintage design ques right down to the thinness... from what i've see all the axe handles seem to be thinner then the head width and not overly curvy.
You should maybe try contacting roaster from axe junkies since hes involved with Concil Tools axes now from my understanding and with your platform he maybe able to send you some to test out free of charge and if hes at all familar with you and your channel he'd know your gonna give him a full hearted and honest review of the products no matter what!.
but even if you have to go out of pocket I think the new Council Tools Flying Fox Hatchet and Council Tool Dayton Axe
would be well worth the expense to review for your viewers as they seem to be some of the best axes being made right now at truly amazing price points/value for the money.
Im a vintage axe guy myself and have never owned a new store brought axe, having always choose to get used heads and instead restore them in the past... but the Flying Fox Hatchet is the first new axe/hatchet im seriously considering buying... the gransfors and hulks bruk both being a bit pricey/still needing handle mods out of the box. Council Tools new stuff seems to really be nailing it! and personally I mostly use a axe/hatchet camping so a hardened hammer poll is ideal for me and the FLying Fox hatchet is basically what ive always wanted to see mass produced by a modern axe company, having always wondered why hardened polls on camp hatchets phased out, Im truly happy to see council tools bringing it back since the used market for vintage hammer poll axes has gotten ridiculous in recent years.
I got the sport utilty verison of it. Love it. I actually was cutting up a tree branch missed hit a cinder block broke it in half, btw i didnt put any force in the swing, and it just dulled my edge alil and it was still sharp and i kept working. Love that axe rips chuncks out better than my really thin cold steel trail boss, btw i do love that axe as well plus hudson bay axes are beautiful tools. Idk route of the story its a good axe for the price lol. Amazon i paid 70 with a sheath. Trail boss i paid 50 with the sheath. Recomend both just know you'll havw to thin out the trail bosses hand if u get it and it dont like to split wood compared to the counsel tools boys axe.
I love any boys axe for feel
How thin did you make that handle.
I can't remember all the measurments. I think the thickness was 3/4" it's more about the feel than the dimensions. I like the two finger flex test. czcams.com/video/MtycSBUtP0o/video.html
Okay, seriously, I've never owned an axe. I have already consumed a large quantity of your content but so far this is the only positive thing I've heard you say about a factory fresh axe. You've made me want to get an axe and use it (so, mission accomplished there) and would you say this is your recommendation for a first axe? What about economy? I'm only 4 minutes in so if you answer that in the next 18 minutes don't worry about repeating yourself here. I know this must sound crazy, but since the last time I commented and I'm now already up to my neck in thinking about self reliance, animal husbandry, franken trees, horticulture, and like all the other shit I've absorbed but don't even know I have yet. I hope I've made a good impression because this information is so valuable, and you are so forthright and genuine about sharing it, I feel an obligation to be here learning and supporting you in any way that doesn't involve money, because I'm poor. Even if the only thing you ever need is someone to help if you get stranded in my city you can trust that I already feel indebted to you. Sorry to get mushy, but... you know, these are important things I could possibly have never learned without you doing this. Keep on rocking in the free world dude.
You're infected lol. I probably should make a video about first axes, because there is a lot to say. Short axes do have the added danger of directing cuts toward your feet and ankles vs. long axes, which are more likely to land in the dirt just shy of your foot. That is pretty huge. They also offer more control though. It is much easier to hit your target and control angles with a short handle. Light axes require more velocity for a given amount of work, which could affect accuracy and ultimately safety, or lead to impatient behavior. A large axe, you can let the weight do more of the work. I think heavy axes lead to fatigue quicker. A normal healthy adult will probably never tire of lifting a 2.5 lb axe, but a 3.5 lb axe will certainly come to be a burden to lift at some point. All in all, because of ease of handling, accuracy and no lifting fatigue, I'm inclined to think that a 2.5..lb axe on the classic 28 inch handle is a good place to start, with caveats of course and strong warning about safety. Other people will disagree and prefer a long handle, and I can't say they are wrong and I'm not saying I'm right. I'm very partial to small short axes and always have been, so I have a bias there. As they go, aside from being 1/4 lb shy of 2.5 lb, I can't find much fault with this model or this company. They do have specimens that are substandard, but 3 out of 4 that have passed through my hands have been between good and excellent with one being too crooked and a questionable handle. it's cheap and you can beat it up and learn on it without worrying about it.
I'm basically hear to infect susceptible people with information and ideas that might grow into some new interest or way of seeing the world. It's part of my overall evil plot lol. Also, there is a world of possibility out there that most of us are missing. The things I see that most people don't are hard won by diligently living my life in a certain direction. As much as anything, I want to offer people a look at the world through my eyes to start seeing more possibility everywhere. If I can effectively communicate or transmit by whatever means the excitement and interest that drives me to do and understand this stuff, that might be as valuable as anything. I'll hit you up if I'm ever in your neighborhood. Not likely, but I appreciate the offer and the props. :)
I'll be honest, I have what could be called by school psychiatrists a learning disorder. I cannot on the fly interpret numbers very well. I know this writing is contributing to the larger archive of material and no less valuable because it's not in a form easy for me to understand. But, for me I would just want a straight forward recommendation upfront so if I had the opportunity I could just get an axe that I was sure would be worth it from a technical standpoint. I don't really need the specs and it's more like I'm asking for your respected opinion. I'm already hooked, but I can't afford to spend the time weighing options; I just need to get the thing and start swinging. I hope this doesn't sound anything but a productive critique. That's something I'm practicing on you.
Oh, and I really believe I intuitively understand your motivation here. I even relate to an arrogance that comes from your kind of independence. I find your abrasiveness refreshing because I can be a very abrasive person as well. It's a way of establishing some resistance to weed out as many stupid, ignorant, naive, damaged, manipulative, predatory people up front. It's a very mild acid test to see if who you're talking to can handle, determine if they're worth the effort to know, and be able to shut them out the moment it's clear they could be a liability. I know I'm projecting, but that's the presumptive basis of empathy and sympathy.
The short answer may not be the best answer when it comes to dangerous tools. With the caveat that short axes are much more dangerous, yes, I think this may be a good beginner axe.
Thanks for the recommendation. I know that it's got to be hard to figure out how to clearly communicate some of this stuff since it's a vast, multidimensional, body of knowledge. It's hard to figure out where one concept ends and the next begins.
I'm definitely intrigued by a boy's axe. I have pretty much only used full size 3.5- 4.5 lb axes because that is what I have, mostly because that's what I've bought at the fleas and garage sales to hang. I do have a boy's axe head that I picked up somewhere, so maybe I need to hang it and see what they are all about. I am really glad that there is a good US made axe that is reasonably priced and well made, even though I'm unlikely to ever buy an new manufactured axe, honestly. And it is good that you are making a positive review of it from a functional, work-done standpoint vs the standard YT axe review. If you get all your info from YT it would be easy to come to the conclusion that the only axe worth owning is a Gransfors Bruks.
Definitely hang it - making your own handle can be very rewarding too (its taken me 3 tries and still mark3 needs more improvements in mk4. They are a joe to use in comparison to heavier heads - easily carried for minor tasks BUT as SC said the 28in handle can be more dangerous.
You'll have to adjust your technique a little, but nothing you aren't capable of adapting too quickly. Bad news is you have to throw it a little, good news is that's easy if you have efficient form, which you definitely do. What I'm probably going to do is move to heavier axes on short handles next year and do a whole season to get a good comparison. Those quotes I put up are interesting, but I don't believe anybody. Too many opinions and ways to get the same job done.
Council Tool handles are pretty great, I agree
Just bought this boys axe. Put the work and shaped and sharpened it. First swing. The axe handle broke. The wood in the handle look rotten. Handle was only held on with a metal wedge. After putting a new handle on it it work very well. Bought it new with shipping 35$. Good little axe. Going to use it this week to see how the edge holds up.
I just got a couple more for geometry experiments and the handles certainly look like quality wood. One has 90 degree grain orientation though. I would actually have taken that up with council. I've heard their customer service is pretty good. I"ve heard that complaint about other handles, pithy weak wood.
just a quick question. When you talk about the weight of the axe you mean the whole axe with the handle included or just the head? From the website of council tools, they seem to imply that the weight refers to the head only.
It always refers to just the head weight as far as I've ever seen.
thanks a lot. Actually, i am on a quest to look for an head that can be used with different handles. In spain and italy, some axes fit the handle like hoes and tomahawsks. That offers the possibility of using one head and a very short handle for carving, and then change the handle to a 50cm one for using with one hand and cut small branches, or put a 70 cm handle for bucking and felling. Of course, no one axe can do all well. But at least, i want to find the sweet spot for a head of an axe that could do carving, cut branches and occasionally fell small trees. Then again, the internet seems suspiciously quiet about anyone pursuing such a thing, so i might be looking for something impossible. Thanks for the help. I enjoy your discussions very much.
You can use a 28 inch handle one handed quite a bit. Much over that it becomes increasingly awkward and dangerous. I would think about just practicing with a light axe for that stuff. and using a hatchet when you can.
Say Heah, Earlier last year I was looking for a Lite Forest Axe so I went with the Huqvarna, But it came defective by the eye so I exchanged it for a Ochencofp OX 620 H 1257 with the Rotband Plus and Bingo Bango, Blip, Blap, Blam, Easy Peasy just like that it's my Camp Axe. ,, .
Great vid. Sorry about your axe. I’m looking at Boys Axes now and down to Council or Snow and Nealy.
I tried snow and neally and was not impressed. they changed hands. Too expensive for what you get.
+SkillCult I love your videos. I recently gave my vintage council tool boys axe I restored to my brother now I'm left without my baby. should I get a new one I need a good affordable Bushcraft axe.
Not sure. Might be a little light for a lot of use, but a little heavy for dragging around. No perfect compromise.
+SkillCult how well does it seem to hold an edge?
have you ever tried the Cold Steel CS90TA-BRK Trail Boss ax if so what were your thoughts about it ?
I'm not a fan of those hudson bay-ish type patterns in general. Otherwise, I don't know. Never used it.
thanks for the reply was just wondering
Nice axe. I'm going to buy similar axe from Hultafors but have dillema between 2 1/4 or 2 3/4 lb
I didn't know they made a 2-3/4. can you post links? I'm interested. There are very few models available between 2-1/4 and 3-1/4. It's usually at or above those.
thanks. I don't see any sources in the states, but it's about 95.00 US dollars in canada. Shipping must be a lot though. I'd probably go with the 2-3/4, depending on what you're doing with it. For me, I'd rather have the 2-3/4 most of the time. Looks like a nice axe, especially if you can pick one out in person. Unlike Gransfors, they seem to have a reputation for poorly fit handles and variable handle quality.
I've always wondered how thin you actually take your axe handles too, my axe handles tend to be in the 3/4ths-7/8ths range thickness. Could you measure around a couple of your axe handles?
After I dialed this where I wanted, I looked it up in Dudley Cook's, the Axe Book, and it is the same as the lightest handle he lists, except it's a longer handle, which makes some difference. That is about .75 x 1.2 inches. It is a joy to use, but I see Mor's Kochanskis point about extraction being an issue. I was splitting some rails with is and the axe sticks a lot, because it takes a lot of blow to make one long split and the handle absorbs a lot of energy when you're pulling on it to get the same amount of movement you'd get when pulling on a stiffer handle. Probably not enough to change my mind about it, though there could be other reasons to use a somewhat thicker handle too. Also, I've been trying to get into the habit of separating thickness, shock absorption and flexibility, because they interplay, but are not the same due to wood variation.
I should pick up Dudley Cook's book then. Concrete measurements and data interests me and when you mentioned in various times before I always had figured that it'd be more focused on intuition and whatnot as books about axes and hand tools in general usually do in my experience.
Thanks again for the reply, love your channel and will continue to share videos to others when I can.
It's a must read anyway. I'm more of a feel/intuition type usually myself. I like to be able to get by on that sort of thing and I just don't like measuring things that much. I've been using a handle bending test to start to get a rough feel for how flexible a handle it. I"m sure I'll show that soon in a video. Thanks for sharing and watching.
SkillCult I use my swedish army surplus axe as a kind of benchmark for thickness and I just measured it and that one is .7 x 1.3 inches.
Steven, have you lined up another axe to test next? Are you still interested in the Council Tool Forest Service axe or do you think it would be too similar to the boy's axe to justify trying? I'm also interested in your preference for axe sheaths, do you prefer a sheath that covers only the edge or one that covers the whole head?
I don't really, except for the one I recently restored. I think the forest service axe is going to be pretty similar and it's twice the price or more. This one can be got for 30.00 or even less if you're patient and wait for them to come into stock on amazon from the right people. I still have to invent the perfect sheath. Just covering the blade would be preferable as it's just lighter in weight. Most of mine are just super basic tie on masks. I don't like them, I just made a lot of them a long time ago and still use them.
I am looking at a council tool 2.25# boy’s axe; 28″ the newer model with no red paint vs Husqvarna's All Purpose Axe to purchase. Which one would you buy? Every one's thoughts will be appreciated.
The council is a much more capable tool. I would only buy the husqv if you are doing a lot of treking. either packing it, or just carrying it in your hand while walking around a lot. 2.25 is a good place to start with axes. See my recent video on best first axe.
You really wear the shirt, sir! 💥👊💥
COUNCIL TOOL axes are dang nice. I agree with you that their wood handles are uniformly awesome. That said, I did break one due to short grain. However, I will be replacing it with a fiber glass handle, since it is one of my heavy duty axes.
I really like this handle. 3 out of 4 I've seen in person had very good to excellent handles and only one was kind of funky. thanks for commenting
Just picked up the sport utility boys axe. Can't wait to bury it!!
I know you don’t care for the head shape of the Cold Steel trail boss but I just picked one up and gotta say for $26 the handle alone is worth the money. It came hung perfect with perfect grain orientation. At 2 3/4 lbs I really like it and was really surprised.
The total weight of the whole axe is 2.75 lb though right?
very informative video - you remind me to add another wedge in mine as its gone wibbly in the last use - de-ivying (its main task)
a question reguarding technique - when making the gob/face cut i find that one side will always be downhill slanted away from me (an extension of the handle) - Is there a way when standing to correct this Or is it better to take a knee at this point?
I always felt bad about making angled face cuts, but I noticed that in that cool video that axeman I saw one of the guys making an angled face cut and it made me feel better lol. It is kind of challenging to make level cuts low to the ground and I usually cut pretty low, so mine are sometimes angled quite a bit. It is possible though. A good way to practice is the cordwood challenge :) I will take a knee sometimes too, but prefer not to for the most part.
I finally got a copy of Mors Kochanski's Bushcraft, and he seems pretty adamant that the felling cut should be level. The frustrating thing for me is that he doesn't actually say much about how to accomplish that. I've chopped a lot of trees for the Challenge, 13-14 so far, and not made a level face or back cut. Its also really hard to cut low and to cut low AND LEVEL is not something I've figured out how to do at all. I was really trying hard these last few times and still slant them. Kneeling down seems like a solution, but you are then at the mercy of fate since you can't get away from the tree if it decides to go pear-shaped.
I haven't had any problems with off level felling cuts yet, and most of mine are too. some turn out straight though. It is awkward to be sure. I don't like kneeling if I can help it, but it's not horrible. I think I'll start trying to make more of an effort to see if I can get it together.
Im coming at this from a trained foresters angle in that ive done all of the various neccessary chainsaw skill tests which are required in the UK and the shape of the gob/facecut is what sets up the hinge for safe felling direction - i guess why they moved onto axe and saw for the big timber trees.
I'm a little surprised, but my trees with slanted cuts seem to fall where I want them for the most part and haven't twisted or anything. Maybe I've just been lucky so far.
Practical common sense. Good lesson.
The video quality looks great here! And council Tools budget line stuff is on par with anything out there. I just don’t like the aluminum wedge; it limits your ability to tighten it up later on. Their Velvicut series use wooden wedges with round metal step wedges, which is my preference. Who sells a 2.75 lb axe?
I think hults might have a 2.75, but they are very uncommon if available. It seems European companies have more weight range. It's going to happen though. I'm going to push for filling in the gap. We need those in between sizes. Aluminum wedges are lame. I hear the new line they put out has wood wedges. Some of these red council budget axes are soft. I had one and I've heard from a couple of other people. Otherwise, they are a good deal.
I came upon this axe and came to almost the same conclusions. I have higher end axes, but I'm surprised at how much I love using this axe. My handle was good too, especially with a bit of work.
They are a good basic axe. Good handle design, no frills.
What are your opinions on the 24in boys axe with the same head? Also considering I'm a very small person
Could be fine. Im 5' 10" and could go up to 29 in the same comfort zone, but 27 total to 28 total is about right. 3 inches off that is quite a bit, but do the math. I can deal with 25 or so, but I don't like it.
SkillCult I’m 5’3” so would going with a shorter handle be more beneficial? I’m a relative novice
the classic 28inch handle is actually 27 when mounted. I can easily go up to 28 actual measurement and still be in the magic zone there. I think I ended up at least 1/2 inch shorter when I took out the aluminum wedge and remounted it. My guess is that you will adapt reasonably well to either, but I just can't say for sure. Using the 27 inch may be similar to me using a 30 inch, which I can adapt to, but don't prefer for general work. Also, if you aren't used to using axes much, you will proably just adapt to whatever you start with and feel like it's pretty normal. There is probably the potential to rehaft the council 3/4 or more lower, but I couldn't be sure without taking a look.
Couldn't I just put a steel wedge right through the aluminum one, cross wedge, when it loosens? It is probably soft enough to do so. Whats your advice if I try that. Mine came with a perfect handle this time. Thanks
Glad to hear you got a good one. Thanks for reporting back. No, the wedge is too hard. take it out when it loosens. Someone reported that their eye had no taper and was full of paint too, so keep an eye out for that if you dismount it. My new axe mentor is dead set against cross wedging BTW, but sometimes there may be no choice.
SkillCult The head is mounted perfectly, wood to every edge. My pole is a little crooked, but I'm not sure I'll fix that. The "grind", I'm looking forward to using your advice.
It's easy to file the poll with a decent file. If you don't have one you should get one anyway. Just take the paint off first. it will probably loosen sooner than later , but maybe not.
SkillCult Thanks. I have a file I purchased from Snap On. It has always worked well.
Same reason ive ditched the red and black
yeah, I quit wearing that shirt again. One day I went to a local resort and saw a dude with short brown hair, a beard and a lumberjack shirt. Then I was in another part of the building and saw another one and I was like wait, that's not the same guy, but they could have been brothers, 90% probability both were from deep in the heart of the same nearby hip metropolitan area. Then I saw them together and politely poked fun at them for looking the same and one of them was like oh yeah, I guess we're lumbersexuals and I was like damn, I really can't wear that shirt anymore. One of them was wearing sandals. I had literally just been out chopping down trees that day. If only I could have handed them axes and a tree to chop down.... I might hang on to it for 10 years though lol.
buy and review the velvicut boys axe version and tell us if its worth the upgrade
I'd probably try the snow and neally next.
those look goofy
You might want to check but I am pretty sure that S&N use aluminum wedges in their heads. I did talk to the owner of Snow & Nealley and he said he would be willing to mount whatever handle I wanted to the head on a 3.5#.. So if you don't like the wedge system maybe they would accommodate a special request, like wood or a hang your own kind of thing???
I can probably deal with an aluminum wedge next time. I just need to do it right off and jump the head on enough to get it out. If enough people give them feedback, they will change it. I want to get one and check it out and see how head is shaped.
Enjoying your videos!
I went to your Amazon store... The link for the Bahco file takes you to the one associated with Snap-On tool selling for about $122 EACH. Afters some digging I found it on Amazon for $19.60 but you'd get no credit for that one...
those links eventually tank. I'll see if I can fix it. thanks.
what do you think about the utility model?
Havent' seen it, but probably a step up in the reliability of quality control department.
Otherwise it is likely very similar. dunno though.
According to 5100-9D federal axe specs, the Federal Supply System Council boy's axe probably has slightly harder steel, tempered to 54-58 Rc. Aside from cosmetic differences as well as an expoxied plastic wedge, that's the only difference. Personally, I cannot justify spending twice the amount of a regular Council boy's axe for the Federal Supply System version. For that money I could restore a vintage boy's axe and have enough money to buy a leather sheath if I wanted to. I have used other FSS boy's axes before when I worked as a wilderness ranger for the Forest Service last year, but I preferred the larger double bits for bucking. We probably had 20 of them, most of which were True Temper western patterns, but there was a cool reversible pattern by Kelly (World's Finest), and an old Vaughn Michigan pattern. All were embossed with the Federal Supply System initials...I had no idea that Vaughn once took up the contract. My supervisor used a regular Council Jersey, and I must say that it was one heck of a chopper. Still, I must agree that shorter handles are easier to control and guide on target. 31-30 inch handles on a 3.5 lb single bit felling axe feels more balanced than having an extra 5 or 6 inches. Now if only manufacturers would make 31 inch double bit handles, everything would be golden lol. 36 is ok for a 3.5 lb double bit head, but 28 seems too short. I guess it's something that needs a custom-length handle.
I am enjoying your videos, but probably what I enjoy most is your humility. Seems to me that there are too many arrogant fools, or people who claim to know more than they actually do in a practical sense. That's one of the reasons why I started blogging...there's just too much BS and misinformation out there. You learn more practical skills in 1 month of work than one could ever hope to learn by catching up on forums and watching CZcams videos (no offense lol) in a year.
I'd do the cordwood challenge, but we don't use enough wood to justify it. Plus, I'll be leaving for my next job within a month or two.
Thanks for weighing in. I think I'm probably with you on that, now that I have reason to believe the two axes are ground about the same. I have around a 23 degree edge on mine and it seems to hold up fine. The only real problems I have with staying sharp is sticking the toe in the dirt when I'm bucking on the ground (virtually always) and cutting dirty wood that is rolling around on the ground. I still don't know what I want exactly in handle length, but I do know I want to get really good with small light axes and then move on from there. I think after this season I might move up in weight
Part of being a problem solver is understanding what you do and don't know and what is assumption. That is the basis of effective critical thinking and problem solving. It requires that we try to cultivate a certain degree of humility. If I encounter a problem solver, like a doctor, mechanic etc., that is really arrogant, I'm outa there. It's not always easy and sometimes it's good to rant and blow off some steam, but in general I think it's a good policy. I like to reveal my process to people to some extent, because there is a lot to be learned along the way to arriving at a conclusion or theory and that stuff might be more important than the conclusion itself or be more useful in solving the next problem. It's always a challenge though to bitch slap my ego and be honest :)
Book learning and input is great, essential even, but definitely application and actually testing or doing stuff is where it's really at. That is why the axe cordwood challenge of course. It's going to be interesting to watch how quickly people improve and how it ultimately affects the axe culture on the net. I think it will, especially if a bunch of people do it.
Hey mate how does your back hold up to all of that punishment ? I split around 12 m3 yearly and have suffered some serious sciatic nerve pain for my trouble in the past .
Your videos are a real inspiration and a reminder of what life should be about when we're so caught up in the rat race we forget !
Loving your work
From the great southern Land
Thanks John! I don't have much problem with my back. It was a little funky today, but more from working after sitting around too much the past week. I follow a posture method called gokhale that is awesome. I still have a way to go before attaining anything like a normal healthy posture, but I've improved a lot and at least I know what healthy posture is now. This video is a good introduction: czcams.com/video/mtQ1VqGGU74/video.html I think if posture is really good, there should be very little if any problem with activities like splitting and chopping. In fact, the point of Gokhale is the most work and rest both should be constructive, not destructive.
I watched her video and others , at 37 I think there is still time to correct a few things that have long been neglected , isn't it funny what we are led to believe is good for us isn't really the case .
A fellow tradesman told me that sciatica is caused from one side of the body being stronger than the other so I worked on using my left side more building strength and strangely enough the back pain hasn't reared its ugly head since .
You did a brilliant job on the slate roof BTW I am impressed …
Wranglerstar did a funny video about the whole "lumbersexual" movement LOL
thank you for this review.id sent you a message on Instagram but this video answered my question.
Take back the plaid shirt Steve. Don't let the hipsters get to you. Otherwise we'll have to shave our beards off too. Orderered one of these axes yesterday after months of unsatifactory (and half-assed/uninformed) attemps to straighten a warped handle I foolishly hung on a really nice old Kellyworks Woodslasher head a couple years ago. I'll probably have to cut it up into knife handles and start again, but it's been hard to find a handle with that eye size. Anyway, I'm looking forward to dialing in another ax and figure its a good size to have multiples of anyway. Thanks for the tips on handle improvements. I've thinned down the handles on a couple of my smaller axes and like it so much I can't stand to use the ones I haven't thinned yet. My 36"er feels like it has a 2x4 for a handle, and it pretty quickly starts killing my left hand. Thanks for the inspiration as well. Keep up the good work, it's appreciated.
Tell me about that handle straightening fiasco. I've straightened some pretty bad ones. Did you watch my video on it? I'm thinking about doing another one because I have several that need it. Cool on the handle thickness. It's hard to go back :). Only thing that has given me any real pause about thick handles is Mors Kochanski saying that if they are too thin, you can expend extra energy unsticking them. Makes sense. Always compromises though.
another video that is.
One can get into more problems with harder steels than softer fileable steels. My first test it to see if a head is hard or soft, by running a file on it. If I see it is hard or has hard spots I discard it, this is with used axes. I also gloss over the steel numbers. My favorite axe is soft and stays sharp even on dried spruce knots.
For smaller folk, like myself weighing in at 143 pound, a 4 pound axe will put me in the dirt much faster than an 2.5 pound axe on 26-28 inches of handle. Once you get into heavier heads it limits the use of the axe. A lighter axe has a wider use spectrum.
Great quotes at the end.
That is more or less my take on it, but I respect that there are differing opinions and I like to think I try to challenge my own opinion sometimes. Right now I'm establishing a solid baseline with light axes and working up slowly. At some point I'll contrast that experience against heavier axes, probably first on short handles. Just like reviewing axes, I don't want to say too much until I have more experience, which means cutting an asston of wood. Same with head geometry. And of course size has a lot to do with it. My friend recently sent me a picture of his lumberjack grandfather holding a crosscut saw. The called him bull of the woods. The dudes forearms were bigger than my calves! Holy shit, that dude was solid.
Oh, man. Virtually every Axe Wednesday I say to myself, "that's what's up with my xyz axe problem." This week: my handle is just too long. I think that mofo is 30 inches. Great for hauling into a standing trunk, but there's no way I can stand on a log and drop blows at my feet.
This is great because I was pretty sure I knew a thing or two about axes, but now I know I only know a thing. Getting there, thank you.
I used a 30 inch handle a lot last year and I can do it bucking small wood up close, but it's always awkward. That is the main reason I like short handles I think, though ease of use, accuracy and maneuverability are pretty nice too. My next handle is going to be about 28 to 29 inches with a small curve at the end for less wrist torquage when bucking. I'll see how that works.
SkillCult Oof. Just went out and measured - 35".
That makes more sense.
I feel a proper chopping ax should be ground like a Wetterlings: a broad head that is a continuous convex from the eye to the edge, that sticks the least and throws the best chips, hollow ground heads like the Husqvarna or Gransfors are good for limbing, but they stick a bit too much IMO when chopping.
That is more my inclination, but I don't know till I have a lot more comparative experience, which is why I don't talk about it a lot. Since I don't believe anyone, I have to test it all myself and there are so many possibilities that I'm already thinking I'd like 4 to 6 copies of the same axe to grind differently and compare all at once side by side. This would be perfect size and price wise if it wasn't hollow ground. I wonder that the old American axes were maybe left so thick because it was assumed that users would custom grind them to suit their uses and beliefs. But yeah, this sticks more than I'd like and the gransfors forest axe I have sticks enough to actually be fairly annoying, which is one of several reasons it's headed for ebay.. Until I test enough to decide what the best compromise is, and under what conditions, I only have so much to say about it. But I'm always interested in hearing what other's think about it.
SkillCult From my limited experience, my Wetterlings not only sticks less, but it also throws bigger chips since it better splits the fibres compared to my Husqvarna. One thing i am very curious about is phantom bevels, they look like they might help the axe stick less, or at least make it easier to unstick.
Steels, grinds, wedges, epoxy, grain, etc...here's a question: Do they work? If the axe performs, then it's it and that's that. Everything else is just conjecture and theory. :)
On this one, wedge and grind and varnish didn't work, but the potential is there for it to be a good axe, which is not true of some. I do wish they would leave more of the grind to me however.
I haven't received an axe that didn't need a little tuning up from the factory, except the one that cost me almost $300. I just think sometimes, some people get so wrapped up in factoids that they make up their minds before they even swing an axe.
I have a $5 vintage boy's axe that a lot of axe snobs would frown upon, but it splits the hardest hardwoods and got the job done. Sometimes, performing on demand is all an axe needs to do.
:)
Hey there. I just saw a video on the Gransfors Bruks American Felling axe and according to the axe book you recommended and what I've heard you say, this one might be perfect. 3.3 lb head, 35" handle (too thick of course and maybe too long) and the shape of the "perfect" axe. I hope you can get one. It might stop your quest. Adirondack Wilderness Co. does the video.
That is longer than I want for the stuff i'm usually doing. Not sure about the head weight. One thing I know I won;t like is the price.
Re: pulling the aluminum wedge
Take a tip from the guys who rip ignitions out of cars. Drill the wedge and thread in a sheet metal screw. Attach a slide hammer puller to the screw and back it out. Once you get a bit of movement, a straight back pull will have a wedge out in a jiffy.
I tried that once, but the wedge was already mangled up a bit and it didn't hold. I'll try it again on the next one with smaller holes and screws.
A technique to try: a vise-grip slide hammer.
Vise-grips use standard thread pitches for the adjuster screws. Back out the factory screw and replace it with a piece of threaded rod. Add a slide weight and a locknut and you can hammer out on anything you can securely pinch the grips onto. Be aware, the threaded rod is considerably softer than the factory screw, best to grind back the threading where the tip of the threaded rod bears on the cam, else it will be a bear to back out.
Another possibility: directed heating of the wedge.
Loosen the wedge by charring the wood alongside it. Drill the wedge, insert a close fitting copper wire in the hole, say two inches long. Play a torch on the copper wire, heat will conduct to the wedge with almost no heat delivered to the axe head. Just a bit of smoldering will loosen the wedge considerably.
Overall I love Council Tool axes because the handles are great, the head profiles are good, and they are very cheap. On one the head was loose, I hate the aluminum wedge. I drilled it out in about 15 minutes though a bolt and slide hammer might be quicker. I used a larger drill on top then used smaller drills as I went down till the aluminum wedge crumbled. I pounded in a wooden wedge and now it is fine. I really dislike how soft the steel is in that it loses it's shaving edge almost instantly. But it stays sharp enough to get work done, and at the price I can't really complain. I really like my 32 inch Jersey Felling axe with a 3.5 pound head. That size is very comfortable for me. I dislike the 36" but I'm not tall. Council Tools still offers the Jersey but maybe not anymore with that handle length but they offer a 32" replacement handle from their site though I wish that came with the axe still instead. The best axe I own is a 28 inch Helko Werk Classic Dayton pattern boy's axe. The handle comes fatter than the Council Tool's but is a pretty straight curved handle, the head geometry is good and the steel is excellent. I bought it for $55 shipped. Now it seems Helko North America realized these polished axes are too good for the price and now charges more than double for them... If I were to buy another 32" felling axe, it would be a Hultafors with a Dayton pattern. I'd need the work to justify splurging on it though and if I find a good head at a garage sale then that would be an option.
Thanks for weighing in. I've looked at both the helko and hultafors boys size axes and they look intriguing. But with used stuff out there and the very serviceable council tool budget axes, it seems hard to justify. I Too bad about the Helko prices going up. They are also 2.5 lb which I'd prefer over the everyone else at 2.25 lb..
Yeah the thing was I paid 55 for the classic because it was polished. They had a line of axes with painted heads for like $35 and came with a sheath and had wooden wedges instead of aluminum like the Council Tools. At that time I would have recommended those any day over a Council Tool's equivalent although Council Tools offered straight handles too. Not long after I bought an axe and maul from them, they got rid of those inexpensive lines of axes and bumped prices on their other stuff. Now I would only buy a Hultafors with a coupon. Around where I live I have trouble finding used axe heads so my only option would be online but sometimes the pictures aren't very good or the description doesn't say enough. I hope Helko brings back that inexpensive line, at least here is the U.S., they might have it in Germany but then the shipping prices would get you.
The market is heavily affected now by the collector, boutique axe mentality. Companies are making show and collector stuff over practical affordable tools. You can hardly blame them I guess if that is what the market is asking for, but it's unfortunate for the rest of us. If axe culture can shift more toward use and less toward collecting and fetishizing, maybe we can influence the market in a positive direction. That culture has also driven up axe prices due to hoarding behavior. Oh well.
Yeah I'm glad at least someone else shares my plight. Luckily I'm good on axes for now. I've also ended up with a collection of American made wedges after splitting some slippery elm. Let me know if you want some insight to those and if you want a story and a word of warning regarding the Estwing's design.
This imposter is not Steven Edholm, its SKILLCULT !
you should wear that shirt around Ottawa Ont. you'll fit right in. Go Redblacks. BTW I'm really trying to figure out why a gransfors bruks axe is better then other quality axes ?
My gransfors is super crooked and asymetrical. It also sticks more than I'd like. It's headed for ebay.
What did you do for a sheath?
I just used a simple old tie on mask that I made a long time ago.
If you ever decide to make another one, with the Edholm logo, I'll buy it!
I don't like any of the axe masks and sheaths I've ever made. If I ever dig into that problem, I think I can come up with some great stuff. I have nascent ideas that are pretty cool. Just another project on the back burner.
Hipsters definitely have Amazon stores.
I have the Forest Service Model. Steel is technically better. (I had found the government specs online before I bought it.) Steel is hardened differently. Head Geometry is different than the regular boy's axe, and more to what I consider ideal for chopping. Plastic Wedge. Supposedly uses the velvicut handle. I have heard of complaints about the head loosening first use. Mine hasn't....yet.
plastic wedge - thats a first.
Yea. The Forestry service specified it. It also specified epoxy, but I don't know if they did that for the post govt contract runs.
Well, if the geometry is different I need to try one.
I found a decent pic of the head, looking down:
rockymountainbushcraft.blogspot.com/2014/11/review-council-tool-boys-axe-us-forest.html
Oh, and let me know if you think it is same or different. I bought mine a LONG time ago. I don't know if they've changed anything. At the time, the cheeks were thinner, i.e., less of a wedge.
excellent review bud I'm Joe
Thanks. A name to the hillbilly!
Nice shirt! Screw the hipster's styles.
Have you tried the Estwing 26" campers axe? I've used it to cut down trees, clear trail, and help with firewood cutting for more than 25 years on a remote trapline in Alaska and it cuts like a knife through butter.
I know that it's blasphemy to suggest an axe without a wooden handle. The reality is that wood breaks. When you are 100 miles from the closest road, you try to use the most dependable tools, even if they are a little less romantic. The only way I've destroyed an Estwing is to loose it. One a grizzly chewed part of the rubber handle, but I still used it with a little added honor. They are $33 on the web. We cut around 10 cords of firewood a year with a chainsaw, but the Estwing limbs every piece and is used as a handle on logs constantly. If you bury the head in the end of the log, the blade is so thin that it grabs very well. Then grab the handle near the head. Now you have a handle for dragging or carrying the log to the sled or boat, and you didn't have to bend over to grab the end of the log. Once you get the hang of it, it's like you added 26 inches to one of your arms with a wood grabber on the end. It allows a guy to work much more efficiently. When I'm cutting through bigger trees, I sometimes wish they made one that was just a couple inches longer and a few ounces heavier. Thanks for your great videos.
How is the feel of the steel handle on the Estwing? Does it have any spring at all?
I decided I didn't like the estwings years ago, both the hatchet and camp axe, but it's been a very long time since I've messed with either. My neighbor has the camp axe, so maybe I'll grab it and give it a spin. The durability thing is great, no doubt.
Lawman212
Despite being all metal and rubber, it feels a lot like a wood handle when the blade hits something. You can flex the handle quite a bit by stepping on it.
Don't get me wrong, I think a nice wood handle can be utter beauty. And developing the skills to make them right and use them is more important than buying a solid steel and rubber axe. I just wondered how it compares to the ones that skill cult has tested. The thin blade and handle principles that skillcult speaks of makes me think of the Estwing every time.
I found an old hand forged axe head at an abandoned homestead once that was only beveled on one side. I presume that it was for hewing flat sided logs for cabin building. I've carried it around for decades hoping to one day revive it with an honest wood handle and the hew some lumber. I still haven't done enough research on that kind of axe to build a proper handle.
I got one of the 26" Estwings, not an experienced axman by any means but have split at least a few chords with it and done some other work. I would say the big pluses are versatility (as far as I can tell with little experience) and durability. I've broken quite a few handles in my first couple years of swinging heavy/sharp objects at large chunks of wood but the Eswing was the first I picked up and it's still holding strong. The metal tube handle has some bend side to side but swung/wrenched on straight on there is no flex I can detect. Comfortable too. It has proven pretty versatile to me too. Being 26" it's just long enough so you can get some good centripetal force going and use it for pretty heavy work. But it's also light enough and has a thin enough head so that you can do some delicate work with it. If I choke up on it and one hand it I've got a serviceable 'hatchet'. I wish it was maybe a touch heavier in the head but I gather they were trying to manufacture a 'light' ax- but all in all I do like it. Not the ax I would necessarily choose to process loads of cordwood but as a carry along into the backcountry- hell yes!
Estwing's 16" camp axe has been my best friend for almost three years. People complain about the 1055 Estwing uses, but mine isn't too soft, I can use it for an entire week w/o sharpening it. It hasn't failed in any way. What do you think about Estwing?
I tried both the longer axe and the hatchet when I was young and didn't like either. One deal killer is that you can't choke up and use the hatchet up where I use it a lot for carving type tasks. Same with the axe. I use my axes one handed all the time. They are tough, but I think of them as a limited performance tool.
So replace the head, handle, and wedge, got it.
Handle is very nice, just needs some tuning. From stories I've heard and the ones I've seen I'd say you are at around 50% or more likely to get a very good handle, but some get just okay handles or duds. The head is fine, but needs work like almost any axes out of the factory. The wedge has to go.
SkillCult I don’t know of you’re missing the joke...
Flannel is super comfy and durable. Ignore the hipsters and wear it.
8:55 everybody is hung up on the latest and greatest steel. The sh!ttiest steel around today is far better than what was available before 1900. And they did just fine.
Yes sir
Yo who sells a 2 1/2 or 2 3/4 pounds axe? I haven’t found any :(
They are uncommon in the states. You might find one from European manufacturers. Check Hults.
Second comment: Better steel is better. I like your point that beginners shouldn't get in over their heads with high tech steels, etc. First learn to sharpen and haft your axe, preferably with something inexpensive. However, once you get decent at these skills, then the better steels are way worth their money. They hold an edge SO VERY MUCH longer.
Cool, thanks for commenting. I don't think about steel and with firewood axes I'm never thinking I wish this axe stayed sharp longer or anything like that. Just not a problem I've noticed.