710 HP Massey Tractor Team Pulls a 20 Bottom Plow

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  • čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
  • Learn More about the Half Century of Progress Show @ www.halfcentury...
    In this video viewers will see a tag team of two Massey Ferguson 4wd tractors pull a 20 bottom International 800 series plow. The 710 hp pairing includes a 390 hp Massey Ferguson 5200 and a 320 hp Massey Ferguson 4880. The tractors are taking part in the Half Century of Progress Show which features 200 acres of harvesting and plowing.
    Connect with Big Tractor Power @ www.bigtractorp...
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    Share this Video: ➜ • 710 HP Massey Tractor ...

Komentáře • 264

  • @dougk5456
    @dougk5456 Před rokem +2

    Spent many hours on tractors. All were small but it gets in your blood and I love watching these monsters.

  • @leahmarvel4033
    @leahmarvel4033 Před 5 lety +3

    Tim's dad here, a little more information on the MF 5200. We purchased the tractor in 1998 from the Taylorville, Illinois Kuhn's store (now closed), we were the third owner, and the current owner didn't buy the tractor directly from us but from the dealer with whom we traded in 2015. Also, the tractor had a Twin Disc 12 speed transmission with a Detroit Series 60 engine that originally had 390 hp but the ECM had been flashed before we bought it to 425 hp (this was commonly done on the early Series 60's). The engine and transmission were both factory options and weren't common in these tractors so it is a rarity among a fairly rare tractor. I have always thought that for it's time (1990) and with it's features of an electronic engine with a full powershift transmission, that it was as advanced as any 4wd tractor on the market in North America . Tim is bummed since he was too young to have driven the tractor in the field before we traded it :)

  • @SkitterstheMarmot
    @SkitterstheMarmot Před 5 lety +16

    All the gators and rangers out there reminded me of Rodney Dangerfield in Caddyshack. "What is this, Hell's Angels?" 😂
    Love the videos

  • @markreetz1001
    @markreetz1001 Před 5 lety +8

    When Earthquake throttled up--Holy Crap! That was some screaming power. Thanks for the vid and the narration. It was a cool demonstration.

    • @bigtractorpower
      @bigtractorpower  Před 5 lety +2

      Thank you for watching. It’s fun filming and sharing these machines.

    • @khadrtrudeau1662
      @khadrtrudeau1662 Před 5 lety

      Did sound great.

    • @andyharman3022
      @andyharman3022 Před 3 lety

      Yep. I chuckled when he throttled up. Those Detroits really bellow.

  • @JohnDoe-jq5wy
    @JohnDoe-jq5wy Před 5 lety +3

    This gathering looks like the epicenter for ag history, love it.

  • @bradh7472
    @bradh7472 Před 5 lety +7

    That is some serious plowing there! Some major forces going on there.

  • @ginggur17
    @ginggur17 Před 5 lety +2

    Had a ride in one of these big Ferguson’s at a Tractors at work demonstration approx 1983 ish here in the UK. Had a Cummins 903. Was indeed the 4880. That’s where my love for a 903 began.

  • @danlowery3235
    @danlowery3235 Před 5 lety +7

    One of my fondest memories from grade school was watching DMI test their 21-bottom plow across the street from my school back in the late 70's.

    • @danlowery3235
      @danlowery3235 Před 5 lety +1

      @Mgtow Farmer I honestly don't remember what pulled it when I first saw it. I was stuck on the fact that the plow was huge.All of the CZcams videos I can find have a Big Bud pulling it.

  • @markstengel7680
    @markstengel7680 Před 5 lety +3

    That was a cool demonstration of 20 bottom ploughing using tandem power Enjoyed🚜👍

    • @chrissummers1955
      @chrissummers1955 Před 5 lety +1

      Mark Stengel that wasn’t a Wagner. It’s a Rite Earthquake.

  • @johncook3125
    @johncook3125 Před 5 lety +3

    Fantastic I love the big massey fergusons.
    I have seen the mf 4880 in the UK but I have never seen a mf 5200. It makes my mf 698t look like a mf 135.
    I'm jealous.

  • @Naviss
    @Naviss Před 5 lety +38

    Anyone else want to see all those little golf carts & ATV's pull it next? :D

    • @lukebecker1959
      @lukebecker1959 Před 5 lety +1

      Ya i wonder how many it will take

    • @farmermatt629
      @farmermatt629 Před 5 lety +1

      I’m sure there are enough there to do it

    • @get__some
      @get__some Před 2 lety

      start with 500 golf carts. let me know

  • @bobcrone6151
    @bobcrone6151 Před 5 lety +7

    Yeah but it looked like the yellow Chevy pickup was pulling the Earthquake🤣

  • @stephenjones4339
    @stephenjones4339 Před 5 lety

    What a treat fantastic site pure power no computors .

  • @ksr9t
    @ksr9t Před 5 lety +1

    Masseys are good tractors especially the older models with Perkin engines . Used them all my life. First 135 with 152 perkins. Started discing orange groves with 165 while in junior high.

  • @jw8848
    @jw8848 Před 5 lety +6

    Best tractor pull video I've seen in a long time. lol.

  • @hairlesscat6458
    @hairlesscat6458 Před 3 lety +1

    That soil looks nice. Nice and dark.

  • @GosselinFarmsEdGosselin
    @GosselinFarmsEdGosselin Před 5 lety +11

    Two tractors, two plows, two opporators..... May as well split them up....
    Still pretty cool!!!
    Thanks for the video!!!

    • @fjboumboum
      @fjboumboum Před 5 lety +1

      Gosselin Farms Ed Gosselin yes ! It would be easier 😀

    • @billylindauer3636
      @billylindauer3636 Před 5 lety +2

      That's what i was thinking, it looked like 2 plows to me

    • @johngreasamar7730
      @johngreasamar7730 Před 5 lety +1

      That's exactly what I was thinking, and why do this

    • @Zero01k
      @Zero01k Před 5 lety +3

      It's a show, they are just playing around

    • @GosselinFarmsEdGosselin
      @GosselinFarmsEdGosselin Před 5 lety +2

      @@Zero01k I would hope so...
      They should have gotten the plows dialed in first, but hey... Fun is fun😎

  • @TroyaxHD
    @TroyaxHD Před 5 lety +2

    What a sight! Whoever came up with that idea is a genius

  • @johnwoods7577
    @johnwoods7577 Před 5 lety +20

    definitely quantity over quality with the ploughing I think:)

    • @claytoncoker6489
      @claytoncoker6489 Před 5 lety +3

      I bet that feilds all janked upby the end of the demonstration after all those different plows and operators have all ran across it.

    • @feelnrite
      @feelnrite Před 5 lety

      It will take some doing to get it level again.

    • @SirFatboy97
      @SirFatboy97 Před 5 lety

      Ploughing?

    • @jmurphy1973
      @jmurphy1973 Před 5 lety +3

      @@SirFatboy97 Its the British spelling. Like color vs colour.

  • @wallacegeller2111
    @wallacegeller2111 Před 5 lety +1

    Wow, amazing. We had a 2 bottom row plow pulled by an Oliver 70 on our farm mid 50s outside Fort Wayne, Indiana .

  • @Nicolasdu5
    @Nicolasdu5 Před 5 lety +1

    That 5200 is nice 👍

  • @wallacegeller2111
    @wallacegeller2111 Před 5 lety +1

    Love the old Olivers in the video.

  • @heatmoon
    @heatmoon Před 5 lety +3

    Those Massey 5200 4wd tractors are definitely top of my list for older 4wd tractors. Either underappreciated or under produced, I am surprised they didn't take off, now, just FWA from Massey. They did have some not as reliable v8 tractors, but the 5200 is a big 6 I think. I like this guy looks to have put metrics on his, so he knows this will be a show piece, nice example. Be interesting to know how much fuel that Earthquake uses in gallons per hour. I think Challenger is headed the right way, throttle is controlled electronically and bigger engines are used taking advantage of torque and lower RPM's, basically under-working it. Big still have their uses, and you'll see the old guy out there doing what he's done all his life, but its not good for the soil, its heavy to pull, and an endless job even on a quarter of land. Implements have gotten so dang expensive, plows out of fashion, you can get your moneys worth in metal.

    • @seisix6
      @seisix6 Před 3 lety

      I worked for an SLH (Same/Lamborghini/Hurlimann)dealer back in the 90's and they were one of the first if not the first to use electronic engine governing on their 1000 series engines. They were very economical,excellent for constant speed jobs and really would pull for a 1ltr per pot motor. They would spin up to 2700 rpm and still had good torque backup....just a shame being Italian they couldn't make an oil leak free motor. The noise from the air cooled Same version was as near a 4 stroke comes to a detroit.

    • @mikeymcmikeface5599
      @mikeymcmikeface5599 Před 3 měsíci

      Amazing tractors!

  • @arandomfarmer
    @arandomfarmer Před 5 lety +2

    Always nice to see some red iron working ground

  • @kevinfox9916
    @kevinfox9916 Před 5 lety +3

    Many thanks, great video, there I was thinking I was a boy driving a international 634 some 40 years ago
    Kevin fox, London UK.

  • @AaricHale
    @AaricHale Před 5 lety +1

    That was pretty awesome to watch !

  • @markgroth4380
    @markgroth4380 Před 5 lety +6

    I have seen pilot cars for wide loads on the hyway but never in the field. Lol

  • @oscarrosales7494
    @oscarrosales7494 Před 3 lety +1

    Genial.
    Bendiciones para todos.

  • @johnmccall8788
    @johnmccall8788 Před 5 lety +2

    We had one of those 10 bottom IH plows. Biggest pain was having to get out and adjust the hitch and the center tandem wheels from road to field position (when in road position it was narrower than the tractor). I always assumed that later models could be adjusted hydraulically. IH made up to a 16 bottom plow and anything over 9 they were two frames connected together where the tandem wheels are. JD made a set up similar to this 20 bottom when you got above 9 (you can see this in the video from the other day here). I myself would love to see the Wil-Rich 18 bottom in action (three 6 bottoms hooked together as one as these 10 bottom's are). The soil in this field must be a bit gumbo the way it looks. We could pull our 10 bottom with a 240hp tractor with no issue.
    I always liked the look of the later MF 4wd's but by the time they came along, MF was not doing well and dealers were hard to find. I'd be willing to bet the last 5 or so years they offered a 4wd that MF didn't move very many, so that newer one in the video could be a rare find.

    • @heatmoon
      @heatmoon Před 5 lety +1

      We used a DMI 12 bottom, single frame, just a heavy beast, even trying to pull down the road. Road with at night bringing it into a field and my dad kept getting the end caught on the edge of the ditch, a very deep ditch, no way to be pulled in, but scared me to death. We pulled it with a Allis 8550, which was turned up a bit with those 2 turbo's, actual engine HP was rated at 350hp by Allis, which we turned down, torque converter would blow. The owner of the DMI had a Steiger, same HP, but much heavier, and traction was an issue. It was in teh best conditions a heavy pull with a significant loss of traction, not so significant to move down to a 7 or 9 bottom. A guy thing I suppose, my dad was not going to let the old Steiger out pull him. Better tractors if they had the cummins I will concede though, so much power loss in Allis transmissions. Stieger has held its resale value as well, but I cannot find much for DMI plows. I miss farming, where an man could be a man, and not have human resources up my but for a curse word from my cubicle.

    • @BigJfan
      @BigJfan Před 5 lety

      Massey Ferguson sold the 5200 series tractor to McConnell as a last effort to stay in business. The tractor was claimed to be years ahead of the competition at the time. I saw one at a farm show years ago. There was a line of people waiting to climb inside to use the sattalite telephone to call home.

    • @fredbrowning6831
      @fredbrowning6831 Před 4 lety

      P but I'm

  • @SFtruckerWolf
    @SFtruckerWolf Před 5 lety

    What a bottom plow just normal plow. Done every autumn.

  • @chuck7476
    @chuck7476 Před 5 lety +1

    Why do they not use 10 furrow plows like this any more , Mighty tractors great video to see and listen too ,

  • @WiedemannPhotography
    @WiedemannPhotography Před 5 lety +3

    My kind of red! :)

  • @toushhog
    @toushhog Před rokem

    Glad to see the guy wasn’t riding the plow when the 2 tractors were hooked together. If the cable broke that could have been bad.

    • @bigtractorpower
      @bigtractorpower  Před rokem

      The man that built the plow that was riding also owns the 4wds.

  • @nolanmacdougall1154
    @nolanmacdougall1154 Před 5 lety +4

    Now THATS a screaming demon

  • @joeroy02
    @joeroy02 Před 5 lety +1

    Awesome video. Great big plow.

  • @LyfovRyan51
    @LyfovRyan51 Před 5 lety

    Wow, listening to the Detroit was awesome. Seeing old school tractors, some inventions are genius.

    • @bigtractorpower
      @bigtractorpower  Před 5 lety +1

      Thank you for watching. This show attracts some interesting tractors.

  • @chadshafer8095
    @chadshafer8095 Před 5 lety +1

    This is a Alsome Video . Love these tractors.

  • @oukvantha
    @oukvantha Před 5 lety +1

    Awesome tractors!

  • @brandonthomas1298
    @brandonthomas1298 Před 5 lety +1

    That was just freaking amazing like all of your videos

  • @ginggur17
    @ginggur17 Před 5 lety

    Get in!!! My childhood, beautiful.

  • @chrismaas7192
    @chrismaas7192 Před 10 měsíci

    1. Let ‘em eat
    2. That ground is hard as fuck.

  • @minenotyours9031
    @minenotyours9031 Před 5 lety +4

    That's some nice kit there now put a couple of Oliver's on that plow

  • @karriefalon7779
    @karriefalon7779 Před 3 lety

    one of my greatest pleasures i ever had was driving Bob Dorfluer's Earthquake tractor. i pulled a 74 foot kellobilt DOW disc with it it was a fun experience i will mot foreget

    • @bigtractorpower
      @bigtractorpower  Před 3 lety

      That is a very cool experience to have. Quit a tillage implement. .

    • @karriefalon7779
      @karriefalon7779 Před 3 lety

      Wish you would do a fregment on dorfluer farms in oregon and on Kellobilt. I worked at kellobilt 11 years

  • @machinistbytrade
    @machinistbytrade Před 2 lety

    Hilarious seeing a pilot truck in front of Earthquake....as if you wouldn't notice it coming your way 🤣😉😄

    • @bigtractorpower
      @bigtractorpower  Před 2 lety

      You would be surprised. I have video from the safety crew in front and some people just don’t move.

  • @marlonpanganiban6505
    @marlonpanganiban6505 Před 3 lety

    Wow nice is saw beautiful

  • @switzerblitzer2701
    @switzerblitzer2701 Před 4 lety +1

    Interesting demonstration. I certainly, as you mentioned, wouldn't do this for regular farm plowing. Thanks BTP!

    • @bigtractorpower
      @bigtractorpower  Před 4 lety

      It’s a great event to see unique horse power demonstrations.

  • @dcw1540
    @dcw1540 Před 5 lety

    Keep it coming. Thanks again

  • @jankotze1959
    @jankotze1959 Před 5 lety +1

    Super video,

  • @tomkaraitiana6136
    @tomkaraitiana6136 Před 3 lety +1

    These Massy Ferguson tractors are my altime favourites. I remember way back when they were at the top and they priced themselves off the market, is that why they're not being made any more? I really miss them and the Fords.

  • @carterfarms5906
    @carterfarms5906 Před 5 lety +1

    Cool

  • @craigrasnic4178
    @craigrasnic4178 Před 5 lety +2

    I love watching the tillage videos from there,thanks for sharing it with us. Hey I just seen Eithan from Oliver66farmboy doing a drive by

    • @bigtractorpower
      @bigtractorpower  Před 5 lety +1

      I have a video featuring Ethan’s 1950T on the way from this years show.

    • @craigrasnic4178
      @craigrasnic4178 Před 5 lety

      I got one was very upset that he had to take his channel down. Once again we all have to suffer because of a couple of bad apples. I really enjoyed watching all of his videos and what he was doing and how he was doing the work on his farm.

    • @craigrasnic4178
      @craigrasnic4178 Před 5 lety

      I haven’t seen that video yet

  • @KRISHNATRACTORS.
    @KRISHNATRACTORS. Před 5 lety

    Massey is best

  • @robertlonsdale3826
    @robertlonsdale3826 Před 5 lety

    I,m guessing that Earthquake has a 2 stroke in it similar to the old terex bowl scrapers of the 70,s?, what a fantastic sound, I reckon the rear massey needs to lose about 10 psi from each tyre , common mistake by tyre fitters not lowering the pressure once the beads are seated, fantastic video again thanks.

  • @victormcfarland-m4w
    @victormcfarland-m4w Před 8 měsíci

    Two huge MF needed to pull the plow that most other tractor brands could walk with the plow. These are the same tractor using the McConnell-Marc yellow 4 wd

  • @alan2982
    @alan2982 Před 5 lety

    Crazy stuff

  • @brianthompson9729
    @brianthompson9729 Před 3 lety

    Rube Goldberg would be So Proud !!!!!!

  • @jacksak
    @jacksak Před 5 lety

    Fantastic !!

  • @We_are_the_light
    @We_are_the_light Před 4 lety

    They must be in a hurray 😜

  • @Redmallard
    @Redmallard Před 5 lety +5

    The earthquake is massive and loud.

  • @randykroells8049
    @randykroells8049 Před 5 lety +1

    Me and my dad plowed alfalfa with a D-17and a WD with a 3 bottom in tandem. We put a tire in between to absorb the shock.

  • @supraguy149
    @supraguy149 Před 5 lety

    That Earthquake sounds amazing!!! I just love the sound of a Detroit!

  • @henningsrensen2421
    @henningsrensen2421 Před 4 lety

    a beauty beast

  • @vanilakung7563
    @vanilakung7563 Před 5 lety +2

    Vultures / Lemmings everywhere lol

  • @12501980
    @12501980 Před 4 lety

    Nice ,Nice , 👍👍👌

  • @12501980
    @12501980 Před 3 lety

    Nice ! Greetings from Belium . MF fan

  • @Military-Museum-LP
    @Military-Museum-LP Před 5 lety

    Impressive!

  • @johnodonnell-pd2vv
    @johnodonnell-pd2vv Před 2 měsíci

    Worked at Massey combine plant when they converted the implement plant to build 7 of those then shut it down sent them back to where there were made . Just curious if one of those tractors were made in Branford prior to 1988 before Massey went under

    • @bigtractorpower
      @bigtractorpower  Před 2 měsíci

      Very cool. They only built 7 4000’s in Branford? I would enjoy hearing more about the history. Please email at bigtractorpowermedia@gmail.com

  • @mr.allnut650
    @mr.allnut650 Před měsícem

    The soil seems to be quite heavy!

  • @piperdoug428
    @piperdoug428 Před 5 lety +1

    There's an epic CZcams vid of a QT620 pulling a Gregoire Burgoyne 20 board roll over plow in Russia.

  • @leahmarvel4033
    @leahmarvel4033 Před 5 lety +1

    Beleive it or not my family used to own this 5200 before this owner and used it for many years before we sold it to him

    • @bigtractorpower
      @bigtractorpower  Před 5 lety +1

      That is neat. What did you go to after the 5200?

    • @leahmarvel4033
      @leahmarvel4033 Před 5 lety

      @@bigtractorpower A 2014 Case IH 450 and replaced replaced our IH 325 with a IH 400

  • @aparecidonogueira6536
    @aparecidonogueira6536 Před rokem +1

    QUE. MAQUINH
    A potente

  • @dirtthunder1638
    @dirtthunder1638 Před 5 lety +1

    At 5:40 was that Oliver66farmboy in the background which his baby Kinze cart? Great job Jason!

  • @ih1206
    @ih1206 Před 5 lety

    Was that oliverfarmboy66’s little kinze grain cart I spied around 5:47? I miss his channel.

  • @jeffharper7579
    @jeffharper7579 Před 2 měsíci

    Nice very nice I would love the have the earthquake, but look for a video of a case steam engine pulling a 50 bottom plow.

  • @RobertSmith-jr8bx
    @RobertSmith-jr8bx Před 5 lety

    I really like to see your videos I am from Mexico

  • @eastamericantrains589
    @eastamericantrains589 Před 5 lety +8

    I think you mean the half century of progress golfcart show.....

    • @bigtractorpower
      @bigtractorpower  Před 5 lety +1

      There are a bunch. With over 200 acres it’s the only way to see it all.

  • @bondoly66
    @bondoly66 Před 3 lety

    Charles Ingalls would be impressed.

  • @petericyou856
    @petericyou856 Před 5 lety

    Love th grunt

  • @JEDI-MAQUINAS
    @JEDI-MAQUINAS Před 5 lety

    Ai q me refiro massey Ferguson no comando

  • @3maxin
    @3maxin Před 5 lety +1

    6:20 love the DETROIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • @jmurphy1973
    @jmurphy1973 Před 5 lety +1

    Team Wheel Slip

  • @freedomring4813
    @freedomring4813 Před 5 lety +27

    AOC surely will report this to her master.

    • @moneyandtimefreedom3352
      @moneyandtimefreedom3352 Před 4 lety +2

      Brian Swezey we should stop farming all together since the world is going to end now in 10 yrs🙄. We just need to stop eating.

    • @freedomring4813
      @freedomring4813 Před 4 lety +6

      @@moneyandtimefreedom3352 I love cows growing up on a dairy farm myself...I love BEEF...I love ice cream......screw AOC and the democraps.

  • @minenotyours9031
    @minenotyours9031 Před 5 lety +2

    The golf carts remind me of birds when you mow

    • @joseambriz3719
      @joseambriz3719 Před 4 lety

      Nice videos l love the farms Jobs my family had the best tractors the Massey ferguson!!

  • @Whiskey-is-life
    @Whiskey-is-life Před 4 lety +1

    Earthquake is awesome but he’s spinning yup

  • @leol.lariviere4049
    @leol.lariviere4049 Před 5 lety

    Now there's a thankless job jndeed...plow controller at 7:46. Oh the dust and noise !

  • @valentusslimroast6716
    @valentusslimroast6716 Před 5 lety

    nice

  • @johnblanchard1592
    @johnblanchard1592 Před 5 lety

    Great video any chance of bringing one of those big machines to the UK. Regards from Lincolnshire u k.

  • @geraldday1388
    @geraldday1388 Před 5 lety +1

    What Detroit motor Is in the Earthquake?

  • @alcobra88
    @alcobra88 Před 5 lety +1

    forgive my ignorance, but would a modern tracked articulated tractor pull the 20 bottom mull board plow with no problem?

    • @jayden4379
      @jayden4379 Před 5 lety

      alcobra88 Probably not

    • @bigtractorpower
      @bigtractorpower  Před 5 lety +1

      Yes if it was a top end 620 hp model I think it could run it.

  • @rustynails.8550
    @rustynails.8550 Před 5 lety +4

    I believe my ole Ford could pull that little plow, course I might have to lock in the hubs. LOL 😀

    • @offshorefisherman6935
      @offshorefisherman6935 Před 5 lety

      Rick Toles yup

    • @bustersmith5569
      @bustersmith5569 Před 5 lety

      Rick Toles maybe if you put a Cummins in it ??? No body swops a lot ford Parts in anything,, can you say junk !!!

  • @Royals_Fan
    @Royals_Fan Před 5 lety

    Anybody else see Ethan and his Oliver with the blue grain cart behind the earthquake?

  • @stoneyowl6164
    @stoneyowl6164 Před 5 lety

    Sweet

  • @lwilton
    @lwilton Před 5 lety +3

    That Earthquake tractor is up in the category of "repurposed mining equipment". :-)

    • @bigtractorpower
      @bigtractorpower  Před 5 lety +1

      It is a monster. It is the 3rd largest tractor in the world.

  • @JohnDoe-jq5wy
    @JohnDoe-jq5wy Před 5 lety

    Why do they plow today? The "hardpan" that the plow shere creates is production negative.

  • @trevorfout4759
    @trevorfout4759 Před 5 lety

    That was mr Oliver farm boy behind the earthquake with his grain cart

  • @dargaming379
    @dargaming379 Před 5 lety

    Were the 7200s with the Detroit Diesel even more rare then the ones with the Cummins? I’ve only ever seen 1 with a Detroit which is what made me wonder??

    • @bigtractorpower
      @bigtractorpower  Před 5 lety

      Yes. I think 3 got a Detroit. When it became the AGCO STAR 8360 a Detroit was an option.

  • @minenotyours9031
    @minenotyours9031 Před 5 lety

    Is there a detailed vid on the earthquake?

  • @NatureRecycleFlorida
    @NatureRecycleFlorida Před 5 lety

    cool

  • @boB7710II
    @boB7710II Před 5 lety +1

    Does the owner of the earthquake need to adopt any kids?

  • @ericlakota4400
    @ericlakota4400 Před 2 lety

    Hate to think of 20 plough where I live he could go 20' trip it an so on