V4R Slower Than V4? | Dyno Power and Torque Curves
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- čas přidán 14. 11. 2018
- An engineering overview of the Ducati Panigale V4R from the 2019 Ducati World Premiere including a calculated dyno power and torque curve comparison between V4R vs V4, as well as the V4R price. Part 2 will contain an explanation of the V4R wings and Ducati's computational fluid dynamics (CFD) presentation.
Music we make for these videos:
Intro Song - Getaway itunes.apple.com/album/id14402...
Checkout the other great youtube channels from this video:
Ducati World Premiere 2019: • Ducati World Premiere ...
Akrapovic exhaust fabrication: • Racing exhaust system ...
clem is roaming V4R 360 • *NEW* DUCATI Panigale ...
Flipsidelongboard tuna canyon longboard run • Raw Run: Tuna Canyon 2.0 - Auta a dopravní prostředky
LMFAO techno viking, this is why I love your vids.
Peter A was I figured the strobing stage lights would have triggered some nasty moves....nothin'.
@@FancyAnimal ROFL
love your videos dude.
love your stuff dude.
Lot of work went into this video thanks.
Congratulations on hitting 30 thousand miles 👍🏻 so glad you restored that beautiful bike
Just bought a 2012 Panigale 1199 and stumbled across your channel...hilarious, I love your commentary.
Seth Kaiser may the force be with you.
Dude, post more often! Some city riding too, please! Love your stuff!
Peetseetso i just need to start stripping so I can quit my day job, and post more.
@@FancyAnimal Haa, no, don't strip. I just figured maybe when you ride somewhere casually you could film it and make a vid. But I totally understand your point. This stuff takes time too.
Techno Viking lol. I just read a story about him. He was only 18 in that video and had been awake for days high on drugs. I know; shocking. Great channel and I like the new intro.
There's no way he was only 18 years old.
Another great video Fancy. What is your line of work if you are able to divulge. Oh, and more importantly, thank you for bringing back the beach intro. :-)
Excellent video, I was thinking about getting the V4R but I think I will go for the V4S, more torque and I might also put on a bigger rear sprocket for even more wild acceleration! What you think, 1 or 2 teeth more?
My suggestion to you would be -1 +2 I do this to all my street bikes with 520 conversion best mod you'll ever do for street.
Awesome breakdown. Would love more on other model differences.
Mark Hess will do chief.
Hey man what's the canyon road where at the end, as you approach Malibu, you see Pepperdine? It's a cool road, to take! I don't know just throwing it out there for next time you go on a ride!
Just out of curiosity do you know if they are solving compressible or incompressible NS? Motorcycle racing is very much subsonic, but compressible effects start showing around 230 mph (in 68F air). The top speed of the road going V4 can probably crack 200 (www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/ducati/panigale-v4s/2018/ ) how much faster could a World Superbike spec Panigale V4R go?
Yikes...can't for the life of me understand why this channel is the best out there...
Well anyways you make some great stuff.
Even the sort of crappy music grows on me :D
R Andersson remind me to buy you a hot mcapple pie.
HI
PLEASE HELP ME , PLEASE LET ME KNOW .
WHAT ABOUT DUCATI PANIGALE V2 ?
THANKS .
KURURU .
You call it.. in the mid range perfectly.. damn your a genius
Diffinetly a different style video love it, well done. Far from a copy cat
Great explanation THX.....(Ducati Zombie Voice)"More please give me More information MORE"....LOL
Did you actually memorise all those specs and relate them whilst night riding? Am in AWE....
Mark Bullock I'm good with numbers, but can't remember the guy's name attached to the hand I just shook.
remember that the v4 is 1103cc and the v4r is 998cc ... obviously low-mid range lost than v4 normal or another bikes with v2 cilinders... and remember that on track the most important is the power on mid range to high range ... and remember that on track too much mid range power is bad for pneumatics life ... the next year this v4r will be a killer on the sbk category
Ok.... sorta feel it's a step back...but I'm new to this....less CC more money? WTH.....
the R version is for homologation in SBK championship and for people with a lot of money for spend, obviously for road and track i buy a V4s standard ... @@staceyhiis9961
@@lametraserillos1 Thanks
Your prediction has become reality.
Nice video...As an Engineer with a large American defense contractor and a former two class AMA Expert License holder and a guy who has ridden a few SuperBikes in anger, I predict in a professional's hands the lower torque of the V4R will actually be beneficial around all but the slowest of tracks and with the higher revs and higher H.P., lighter weight, superior aerodynamics and with the manual Ohlins properly setup, that the V4R will run away and hide from a V4S on a typical WSBK/MotoGP track. p.s. I put a deposit down 11-30-2018 to reserve a V4R at my local Ducati dealer here in central Fl. Price quoted was $46,595 with Race Kit installed. Delivery is scheduled for March 2019.
YoU MaNiPuLaTe, CoNsTaPiLaTe, mom's spaghetti. Armpit sweaty.
Power! I am giving serious consideration to the new V4s Corse.
Courtney Ricks Luke, let the V4 flow through you.
30 thousand miles holy 💩😱
A lot of changes on the V4R at the official track test they all said it felt like a different bike compared to the V4
MOTOUK not different enough to make it a cooperative bike to ride. I watched the MCN review, and it confirms my predictions.... engine has less grunt down low and in the midrange.... and that it's more than an engine story; which it is. But you always have to let the launch fever subside a few months before you get the truth. Irrespective, I'd buy one if I had the cash.
Every up range bike coming out is the very best. Then things change after time. The 1299 SL , The BMW HP4 Race , the V4S & now the V4R Ducati needed to do this, but this bike & the race bikes will be miles apart.
Nice work on the graphs there! But to be honest, the average guy will not tell, if there are 210 or 220 hp available. ;)
The average person can't tell a difference between most 1000cc bikes, unless you really know what you are doing, they bikes makes no difference if you as a rider can't use most of the power and handling of the machine.
mbtfp ya, plus not too many long straights on the way to the local Starbucks.
@@FancyAnimal I'm gonna have to mention this to my friends, two guys I know have ducs and they always wanna stop at Starbucks lol
@@FancyAnimal don´t forget "The Reving" of the cold engine into the red line after the caramel Latte! ;)
mbtfp quad venti iced skinny half soy hazelnut macchiato, extra shot, sugar free syrup, light ice no whip.
Just wanted to point out that the black one is the V4RS which Ducati is entering in wsbk next year and it's not on sale for the general public..
Ya I missed the title right above the photo. Thanks for the correction chief.
Mines ordered!
RicViperMoto does it come with astronaut training?
Your channel is my favorite channel of all on CZcams.
In fact, your videos encouraged me to take the Ducati plunge and buy an XDiavel S.
Hell, you have even inspired me to make some Ducati riding videos. Thanks
TODD P. HOLLANDER ya heard your XD. Sounds fabuliscious. Keep making the vids. Cheers!
Advice needed. I have the V4S with $15,000 in upgrades & a 1299 S I bought for $18,500 with 1204 miles on it & $11,000 in upgrades . It now has 8500 miles & the V4S 3500. I'm thinking of selling both to get the V4R but I don't think I can get $50,000 need for the V4R with the Ark. exhaust. So both bikes for a stock (if you can call it that ) V4R .
I thought the V4R was sold-out? Where are you going to purchase one? If it were me, I'd keep both bikes unless you are a track God and can take advantage of the V4R goodies. If you have to have it, sell the V4S. Just remember, it has less torque so you'll have to keep the revs up to get similar pull as the V4S. I don't blame you for being irrational. The bike looks unbelievable in person!
There is several dealers getting in 3 to 4 bikes. So there sold out from Ducati but the dealers orders are not all spoken for. There is even some 1299 SL not sold. Detroit Ducati still has a new Zero time . I'm thinking like you & would like to keep the 1299. @@FancyAnimal
Eileen Pitman well if you get one, I'll be happy to make the trip out there to review it. 😉
You got it. Anytime.@@FancyAnimal
Have you seen any of the dyno charts for the lower gear fuel maps? People don't ever post them but it's really REALLY interesting to see the output results from the streetfighter V4S compared to the Panigale V4S. I can't find the lower gear maps for the panigale V4 posted anywhere, but on the streetfighter, there's a huge flat spot (we're talking a 24 hp dip) that wouldn't you know seems to coincide with idle and pass-by limits to noise emissions. HMMMMWEIRD. what's even more bizarre is the full "race" akra system and factory akra tune that costs like $5,500 eliminates the flat spots in the lower gear maps, but it also reduces overall top end UNTIL you get to the top gear map. I found that really curious because it seems like they're just nerfing the streetfighter compared to the Panigale. I was looking for tunability in the ECU to remove that flat spot in the lower gear maps because I want a streetfighter V4S and I don't care about noise compliance, but, now I've fallen down the rabbit hole and it seems like sadly tuning the fuel maps on Euro 5 bikes seems to be a complete loss. The super duke R is even worse.
2020 V4 is a turd across the board. New for 2021, race mode gets A and B options. Switching to Race -A- mode on 2021 V4 Panigale eliminates torque limiting in gears 1,2,3. All US motorcycles have the 30-40mph noise emissions cork, from a Z400 to an S1000RR, so any worthy tune will eliminate that valley in the torque curve. As for StreerFighter V4, from what I understand the bike is unrideable with unrestricted engine power. I think they should give you a hooligan mode much like the 2021 Panigale....unrestricted. I wouldn’t go near that bike until they do. V4 Panigale will be all new for next year anyway. Hopefully it incorporates some of the new GP electronics and they ditch the monocoque frame. Cheers!
Hi, tweaking the v4R torque curve to allow for its lower gearing is very interesting. The V4r revs to 'only' 16000 except for 6th gear, whereas the V4 goes to 14500. The basic gear ratios are the same, and the R has a lower reduction: 2.8 versus 2.56. So for every 100 kph the R can do (at 16) the V4 does 101.0 kph. in the mid range the R seems to average maybe only 1 % less grunt on average as a result, with a stronger top end. if the R has lighter wheels, or the rdier was 3 kilos lighter, this would tip the balance at medium revs. it is that close. And this only matters above 180 ( a guess) where power is a limit rather than wheelies :)
Ducati lost 100cc's & thats ok but the reason they came out with the 1103 was for the performance gains the 100 cc's offered. The only way to make up for displacement is to spin it faster. That's great for top high end hp but like you pointed out the bottom suffers. there is nothing free when building hp. Every hp added at the top end is a hp lost at the bottom end.
I thought the black one was race trim only? 🤔
Javon Kirkland you are correct sir.
Ducati 🔥😍
Tech Viking on Ducati stage LOL
- Hey GiGi, we found this guy in the pits of European Raves...he loves bikes, pills and dancing! - Sign him in!
You are forgetting it is designed for the race track. The 1103 is going to always be a better street bike that's what it's designed for. On the race track the v4r will probably never drop below 9k rpm. The bottom end the bigger motor has is pointless on the track.
You said it right there !!! GREAT ANSWER !!
That why i would want R-looks, but with that normal V4 engine, because torque...But lets wait and see how that superleggera will look. When 1299 superleggera is best looking panigale ever, of course i love more like AR silencer setup, so those akrapovic in superleggera should be like AR is...
I see this as a marketing gimmick. Couple of months prior to unveiling of V4, some website gave out all of this information, that's some 2, 1/2 years ago! They announced that there will be a V4 Ducati (the same time as when Domenicali was denying any plans for a V4!), and it will come in two flavors, one regular and another one with WSBK specs.
"Bmw S 1000rr & Ducati v4 News" on facebook has taken your vid and uploaded directly in facebook without reference.
Thanks for the 411. I made the mistake last year of posting the V4 vs 1299 plots I created in the V4 forum. Someone stole them and removed my logo, and past them-off as their own. They ended-up all over the internet and forums in Italy. Probably why Ducati made this year's plots cryptic.
This is pretty much how the Tuono 1100 and RSV4 in 1000 cc interact. The Tuono makes more torque/power compared to the RSV4 all across its rev range but the RSV4 keeps going and thus has more top end. The Tuono has the better street motor and is supposed to be a street bike not a track machine. Now with the new 1078cc RSV4 coming out I am guessing that motor will have an advantage over the Tuono throughout most if not all the rev range and will be geared taller as well.
The rpm is higher revving in the R . But if you change to a larger sprocket to get back torque , you will loose the benefit of higher reving . RIGHT ??? Higher revving is so you don't have to change gears & can stretch out the engine. Putting larger sprockets & your back to where you was before.
Not exactly. By increasing the V4R final reduction with a bigger rear sprocket (or by altering gearbox ratios), both V4 and V4R engines will generate their maximum power at the same vehicle velocity. For example, they'd both hit redline at 100mph in 1st. However, the V4R will still be generating more power at that velocity. As long as you keep the V4R in the 12000rpm+, you'll gap the V4. But below that, the V4 is going to be tough to gap for the average V4R rider. In the hands of a pro, the better chassis and tech give the edge to the V4R. But torque goes a long way. Check out this video if you don't believe me. This guy on the RC51 is down 100HP compared to the V4 Speciale, but he's got that Vtwin torque!
czcams.com/video/cnwZiQMWKkE/video.html
I see what your saying & I agree , BUT It's just how many riders with there Ducati 4VS & V4R's , even on the track will be above 12,000 rpm & for how long ?? Just watch the video of the V4R & see how long it's above 12,000 rpm ?? I watched your link but riders play to much of a part to do a comparison . Hell give me my 91 TZ 250 Yamaha & I would smoke most !!
Ask Collin Edwards !! @@FancyAnimal
Although your graph isn’t 100% accurate!
But you can still see the difference between the two and that is the “engine speed”... the V4R is putting the power down a whole lot quicker.
electric bikes are huge in Europe... that's why everyone is on the bandwagon.
I'm sure the gearing will be different so yea it's hard to say if the bike will feel much different... but it does look more track biased (of course). I sometimes wish someone would say ride the bikes under different conditions (fast tracks, tight tracks, and even sporty street riding for bikes like this) and publish a graph showing "area under the curve in the rpm ranges that are actually used"... that would be the most accurate way to show which bike will actually have more usable power. I suspect the R on the street will spend very little time over 12,000 rpm... so even with different gearing the street rider is going to feel a 'weaker' bike compared to the S (and maybe even compared to the FE twin pani's, which had nice fat torque curves).
AGREE 100%
Rumoured that the SBK version of the V4R will redline at something like 18-19k
Isn't there an RPM cap in effect that would null said revving advantage ?
@@GIGABACHII thought that too, so I'm unsure why they would rev so high, but many other superbike championships where these rules don't apply ;)
@@will_hyde it must be nice to have the capability if needed. 👌
At the Moment is only Ducati aneable to encrease the rpm that high,because in this is only possible with the Pneumatic Valve and Ducati can do the same with the Desmodromik.Thats the Reason why all other in the GP using Pneumatic Valve System and Ducati can use the Same System as they using on Bikes for Street.There is not a Spring on the Valve like other because spring has a physical Boarder and that the Reason why no Bike use the Spring they have to use Pneumatic Valve to make this high rpm like the Desmodromik.
16,5
Dude you can't say that the v4r is slower without riding it. The biggest complaint reviewers and track riders had was that the bike was difficult to handle coming out the corners. So sometimes less is more...
Peak numbers really doesnt matter all that much
2019 year of 1100cc V4's and Italian style carbon wings! Cough (Aprillia) Cough (Ducati). Now let's see some WSBK championships ffs. J.Rhea still mopping the tracks with his checkered flags, going on number 4!!!
what the fuck is a techno viking? Just that short clip was bizarre!
Anybody remember back when supersports hit $15,000 thinking it was outrageous? Look at us now
Agreed. We're ridiculous. Thank the credit industry and willing participants.
Ok my dealer offered $13000 for my 1299 S with Carbon fiber wheels,. SC project exhaust , Termi up-map ,Titanium every & $5000 in other upgrades , you name it , it has it . $11,000 WOW !!! It has 8500 miles on it. It has a dent that's not bad if your not looking for it in the fuel tank & he feels that needs to be replaced $3000 plus the time to install it. For my V4S with 3500 miles , ark exhaust, carbon fiber wheels, & $5000 plus in carbon fiber everywhere, titanium hardware everywhere front axel in both bikes $29500 That's the sell price but wants to go down to $28,500 is need be. I have over $45,000 in that bike & he offers after his 15% $24,500
17,500 rpm, panigale V4R.
Just a couple of things, it's 'testaSTRETTA' not 'testaSTRADA'. 'Testa' means head, 'stretta' means narrow, and 'strada' means road. It's a 'narrow head' desmo engine, not a 'narrow road'. lol.
And your summary of the V4Rs engine characteristics seems to be ignorant of the bike's intended 'race' application to say the least. The R is a homologation platform on which to base the WSBk campaign. It's not intended to rival the V4S as a road bike, its purpose is to produce Hp (when fettled by a comprehensive race program) where it's needed most on the track, in the top third of its rev range. The torque curve will also be matched to a close ratio gearbox specific to race requirements, with track specific ratios lending themselves to the higher engine revolution requirements of a race environment. Basically you are wrong in saying that "long straights" are the only places where the engine characteristics can be exploited.
Lastly, the engine's potential is/was NOT meant to be realised in the homologation version, a point I'd have thought pretty obvious given the massive engine output improvements gleaned by just strapping an Acro exhaust and chipping the bike. Consider the myriad of performance modifications a factory race program would implement.
In short, you're measuring a homologation bike which is purposely compromised by its intended race application with the yardstick of a road bike designed to forego outright pure speed in favour of a more 'allround road rideability' brief.
It's like comparing apples with oranges when the intention is to bake an apple pie.
I guess thats why the 1199 pain R can smoke a 1299 S "NOT " The V4R they sell is miles away from the factory race bike including the cams, the electronics, the suspension, the swingarm , the fuel tank, the wheels. So your saying this 100 cc less displacement engine will have matched torque at midrange. I have a bridge to sell you. A close ratio box will not add torque. It will only help use that extra 2000 rpm. Strapping on the Acro exhaust on the V4 did the same gains in hp.
Your wrong , Titanium parts let you rev higher & even faster but that improvement will show up in the torque curve & there no way 1% apart.
@@paper____ Wow that's some some of comment you've managed to produce there Eileen. I think you disagree with me, but I really can't be sure. lol
Not only am I wondering if you actual read/understood my comment but I'm also wondering whether you read/understood your own before posting.
Have another crack at it if you like, or not. Whatever makes you happy.
👨🎓✅
Diavel* not XDiavel
V4r. Power. at Race kit 174.5 kw
1 cv = 735.5 w
1 sea hp =745.7e
174.5kw/ 0.7355 =237cv
174.5kw/0.7457=234hp
V4s. Power at race kit 168.5 kw
168.5kw/0.7355=229cv
168.5kw/0.7457=226hp
Yes engineering freshman year....unit conversion. 👏 See how my prediction faired. V4S makes 20Hp more than V4R through the midrange. It’s hard being right all the time.
czcams.com/video/OFeJEOxi-FY/video.html
Your the best. I loved the Don't sell your Panigale yet . Now that I own both the 1299 & the V-4 i believe your right. I swear the 1299 kicks the V-4's ass. I seen smackdowns But riding both & the 1299 scares the hell out of me. I use to road race so I'm no pussy. I been thinking on the V-4R but I rather go all the way & get the HP-4 RACE Shit I can make it road legal.
Eileen Pitman I'll take any V4 scraps you're not using :-)
Well, it's almost a race engine, what did you expect
wtf did u say at 7:58 lol
Serious Cagliones (cal-yee-own--ees)....meaning balls. I know balls in 12 languages.
V4 Speciale > R ..... just my humble opinion
Agreed
I really want a V4R....I have a 959 and I am a fast novice group rider and would be embarrassed to get a V4R and be in this group with a bike like this LMAOOO
Jose German don't live your life from someone else's perspective. Buy it and enjoy life.
but do make sure you financial circumstance are up to the chance its good to enjoy life but dont let i make your life a burden
Also if crashed while racing I believe you need special insurance ??
Eileen Pitman yes you need racing insurance. It's not cheap, which is why people find it cheaper to build a dedicated beater track bike.
Thanks guys I decided not to get the V4R ....quite Yet.....but I will later on just gonna sharpen my skills and considering getting a dedicated track bike for sure cheaper and smarter
This motorbike has been made for high rpms use. It doesn't concentrate on street use.Also let's notice the weight. 4 kg lighter than the s model and 7 ps more !I It's definitely faster on track!
Sakis Vak a 5% specific power advantage for the V4R vs the 1100 V4 is small enough that skill is the better determinant of success, especially on smaller tracks where the V4R can't stretch its legs. On larger tracks, the V4R will be tough to beat. Either way, it's a good problem to have.
poor 650ib is going to go back to using his s1000rr for racing
Yeah I was going to say the same as the V4S most likely is a better smack down bike.
Trilla BP lol
Rods are of Titanium
man on moon 1103cc uses steel, while 998cc uses Ti conrods....as video states.
daily ride v4 ., track v4r ., v4r isint slower its faster if you keep rpm above 13000 simple in elasticity at let say 6 gear from let say 60 mph v4 maybe be faster unlees v4r have much better gear ratio and at the same speed twist adequate more rpm .
This bike is a SUPERBIKE, not a super sport. Super sport is the 600cc bikes.
Hector Mariscal you've won yourself a fillet-o-fish and any size supersoft drink.
Would still choose 1299 over V4 just by looks. Performance don't matter to me, I can't properly use even one ounce of w/e is available. Lousy rider, a total chicken. 😁👌
JIGA BACHI have you tried a diet high in refined sugar and caffeine? It does wonders.
@@FancyAnimal LOL, it does . . . I normally have a sweet tooth, don't like coffee.
Performance don’t matter to you?
Might as well buy a 125 then
@@MrAckers75 Apparently not as much as to you.
this is me as well, except i prefer the v4 to the 1299 😂 good ol vice versa
V4r is not slower. It's Lighter, smaller engine and better aerodynamics.
ReerBaadia czcams.com/video/10czUKzpbgg/video.html
I don't know y people compare those 2. The v4r it's a racing bike and paying extra just 4 the looks it's pointless. Unless ur a poser with lots of money.
First like
ferdinanda alfatah YES!!!