How does a dominant F1 team lose their speed?
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2024
- Mercedes used to win everything but now they’re well off the pace more often than not - so how exactly do dominant F1 teams like them lose their way like this?
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#f1 #formula1 #formulaone - Sport
PLEASE keep making content in this style and save WTF1
Ur the best in the best in the game
The zoom call videos can go too.
The fundamental reason for the lack of speed is due to the centre of gravity and the rest of the team can control the power of the RB14 electronically that gives Redbull the edge as a result the technical team should replace the side pods.
This type of content is much better, it's definitely the type we want to see.
It's no different than it used to be
@@chrisjohnson3253 exactly, just a different voice.
@@chrisjohnson3253this is fine.
Informative, with a bit excitement.
The guy doing the Lance stroll video, is just hard to listen to for an informational video.
0:44 The W11 was also the fastest car in F1 history , laptimes today are still quite a bit slower than what it could achieve
Three reasons why Mercedes are where they are right now:
1. They lost their PU advantage (2021)
2. They lost their budget advantage (Cost Cap)
3. They lost key personnel to other teams
Every team faces issues at some point. Back when Red Bull had their 4 title run, it was difficult to imagine that they would spend so many years without winning it again. It's true some of their problems were more engine related which they didn't control 100%, but point still stands
They lost a lot of good staff to other teams, mainly RBR.
James Allison Left.
The cost cap, meaning they can not spend money to fix their mistake.
He’s back now to help aid mike Elliot as technical director
Because of the cost cap most teams have farmed out key personnel to other divisions temporarily (removing them from cost cap) and only bring them back in to F1 when needed. It's not unique to Mercedes.
@@thatasianridez9513 I sure hope Mike Elliott drops Mercedes for another team.
@@mintgoldheart6126 Its not that Elliott is bad, Adrian is too good
@@kovarikristof3754 you didn't get me. I just don't want the guy to work for Mercedes after the letter Mercedes dropped which practically put all the blame on him.
Good video Dre. Think you guys are on the right path.
i don't know. Ground effect is a whole new ballgame, and considering how much ahead red bull are of the curve and how fast aston martin caught up, i would say is not about resources and fancy new wind tunnels but just great minds at work. The technical team just needs new specialized personnel in this aero philosophy. Respect to aston martin for recognizing that.
Bahrain shows that the issues are deeper than the zero pods. The zero pods are gaining the most attention because they are the most eye catching.
Ironically the 2022 one-two in Brazil was the death knell for the 2023 season - it gave false hope that the “concept” was worth furthering. And so we are where we are, nowhere - head scratching. You’d have to say the budget cap is working for F1; Merc can’t simply spend their way out of their current woes.
Great vid and a really nice perspective into how the regulations do work at holding back top teams.
It’s pretty obvious that things aren’t as easy when they can no longer throw unlimited $$ to solve an issue. Then lose some key staff and things start to slide pretty fast
The short answer, they can’t spend their way out of trouble anymore. Compared to RB or Ferrari, Merc was spending 30 million more each year to have the fastest car on track
30 million, when all 3 teams were spending 300-400 million is nothing, that might be the catering budget back then.
@@Sr68720 nah it was something despite you wishing it wasn’t
30 million each year. Where did you get that information from. It varied by year. Example
2015
Mercedes $527.6M
Ferrari $474.7M
Red Bull. $532.5M
Aldo Costa leaving in 2019 has also played a big part imo
As much I love Mercedes I can't wait for Ferrari and Williams to catch up again.
Don’t hold your breath. 😂
Ferrari have more pace. But we all know The Great Ferrari Master🅱️lan
It only takes one small miscalculation with regards to the regulations for a formerly dominant team to lose their way. Take Renault in 2007, the switch from Michelin to Bridgestone tyres rendered the aero concept they had used since 2005 obsolete, going from double champions with 8 wins in 2006 to just 1 podium and 3rd in the constructors championship in 2007
I am a lot more interested in this content..keep it up!
Williams: *First time?*
Great video
they've said so many times that the sidepods are not the problem so I don't know what'd be worse, if the car improves after changing them or if it remains
What went wrong? Budget cap went wrong. If this would have happened in 2019 Mercedes would be up the pace by race 5-6. And before any twitter trolls throw the argument into the room:”But Red Bull ChEaTeD tOo.” Sure 1 second a lap faster equals their little overspend in 2021. In 2021!
I find it rather confusing when people attribute to 2022 as the cap cheat year when the cap was breached in 2021and also 2022 was a year or new regulations. The breached amount I believe would barely amount to a tenth advantage per lap. Both the safety car breach and budget cap breach were done in 2021
Two things, which may all be one thing: They developed a new design that turned out not to be the winner they thought it would be. Coupled with being too far up their own to admit it, punt, and move forward. They were never going to be competitive in 2022, so that should have been their "do-over" year. And they discussed mid-season the possibility of scrapping the new design, which they admitted didn't work the way they had believed it would.
Now they're at risk of losing 2023 as well, while the other teams evolve their relatively ordinary designs forward.
Don’t forget about Ferrari’s fall from grace in 2020 as well, and how quickly they bounced back from that after just 1 or 2 seasons
The end of the 22 season and the one-two in Brazil gave the Mercs hope... Basically the worst thing that could have happened to them. It would have been better if they lost those races as well
I think the effect of the regulation change is being heavily downplayed here. While it's true that Merc stayed dominant in a prior regulation change, the shift to the extreme aero was not the complete paradigm shift the 2022 regulations were. The 2017, and the prior 2009, regulations were ultimately still built around the exact same aerodynamic concepts that has been governing F1 since 1983 - the first year of the ground effect ban. They were big enough to shake up the order, obviously, but they were still small potatoes compared to 2022 where EVERYTHING changed. It was a fundamental shift in how car design needed to be approached, and caught out a LOT of teams, not just Mercedes.
It is frankly not at all surprising that the one designer in F1 with prior experience designing championship-winning ground effect racecars is the one who built the best car in 2022(and quite possibly 2023). We really should have seen Red Bull's 2022 dominance coming when we look at Adrian Newey's history.
F1 should have hired Newey as a consultant and each team get's Newey time just like wind-tunnel time. If F1 really wants fans to be happy and have an entertaining sport, the last thing you want is the sole expert in a very relevant field being snatched up by a single team. But here we are, looking forward to 8 more years of Red Bull. yay! 🙄
I think Mercedes should fix the car again which it did last year
Earlier wasn't a budget limit. They was spending much more than anyone else. Thank u for that
The competition becomes hungrier after a couple of years.
A better content really, keep it up 👍🏻
The best car should win and cost capping only stops the technical advantages from motor sport.
How does a dominant channel lose their viewers
They seem lost. They keep saying that when they try other ideas out they don’t seem better than what they already have
It was time. No real fan wants to see a decade of dominance, even by their favorite team.
Hate to break it to you but it's starting to look like it's about to be a decade of Red Bull and Christian "Pearl-clutcher" Horner.
@@LeCharles07 depends if Aston gets it right or not.
@@LeCharles07 I dunno about a decade. 23, 24, and possibly 25, but with the 26 regs we’ll see a new team on top. Part of the reason Merc was able to dominate is bc they outspent everyone.
Mercedes went from being able to spend $400 million a year on the team, to $140 million a year with/under the new cost cap....😂. It's a no brainer what happened..
Didn't the same happen to Red Bull before with Vettel, he won 4 years in a row and was untouchable.
i feel like wtf1 is getting similar with The Race, just with a shorter video length....
I think main reason why Merc dropped is because of PU . Their engine was superb all those years, when they lost their edge there they lost dominance
Feel like WTF1s content has gotten alot better with the new hosts
engine vs ground effect
perhaps they concentrated more not on technical side but more on the 'social' side...
Another question with the same amswer: how does a dominant channel lose its status? By losing the wrong people.
Easy, the base development for the completely all new regulations wasnt done by Ross Brawn, Honda, Schumacher and Rosberg.
Nor powered by an engine that was co-developed with the FIA years ahead of time and protected by the FIA which refused to let anyone try to draw level with an aggressive engine development freeze.
People just need to get over the fact that Max won in 2021. He was the more deserving driver all year, got screwed over multiple times, and finally had something go his way at the end. Lapped cars are supposed to get out of the way. If Massi allowed the last two cars to unlap themselves nobody would be up in arms about it. Let it go
FIA numero uno, forced mercedes to raise their car in 2021..gave the advantage to redbull...early 2021 max was winning everything... so excuse folks who feel pissed off. It was stolen by Masi and gifted to verspuking
When your ultra-dominant super driver says ‘they didn’t listen to me” THAT’S an important reason!
Lewis is not Michael Schumacher for someone to listen him. Schumacher was well known for all day and all night long staying at the Ferrari factory and working with mechanics and engineers about develop the car. Something Lewis is not doing. He is busy with his “superstar lavish” lifestyle…
It’s so sweet.
Max did win the 2021 championship. That's a FACT!!!
He "won" Because masi broke the rules that's a FACT
@@autograndeunlimited So at the end of the day the FACT is that he WON😃!!!
@Bejan Sulejman at the end of the day redbull had to break the rules and so did masi so it's an authentic win FACT
This time they could not engineer their power unit in advance like in 2014 :)
This video could have just asked the question. Showed a picture of Mike Elliott and then ended.
Did you know that in 2016 Nico Rosberg beat Lewis Hamilton in Equal Machinery.
Because of budgetcap 😌
How does a dominant F1 team lose their speed? Pride, Blindness, Egos
Once he is a 🐐 always a 🐐
What led to their downfall? Being entitled is what. As soon as cost cap comes in' they fail because they can't throw infinite amounts of money at a car. This came all the more obvious when Toto and Mercedes started protesting everything. As soon as they saw that they couldn't throw money at someone/something to fix their problems, they resorted to underhanded tactics like accusing everyone who was beating them of cheating or trying to get rules changed mid-season (something they complained about previously because it didn't benefit them). Toto is the biggest complainer in the paddock along with Hamilton on the grid. Always accusing others of doing "illegal" things, then doing them themslevs and getting away with them.
How are they being entitled? They didn't just blindly throw money they had to actually engineer a better car. And redbull did cheat. First you and them had the audacity to claim they never cheated and then after you got caught you downplay it. Lmao bc rednull didn't complain cough dough das cough. Ironically you have been complaining for over 7 years 🤡🤣
Nah merc is doomed to winning a couple races a season for the next 5 years
Oh! SEB!
Why are the views so low now?
I really do think that there is some truth in the statement Lewis made about merc ignoring his attempted input on the direction that he needed the car to be developed. Maybe now they will involve him. If so he probably will stay, but if not I think he might just want to scratch the ferrari itch that he has. Look out Carlos, you need to hope merc builds a good car quick. ✌️👍🇬🇧
What Lewis brought to his team were inconsistent and unreliable results.
Add that with the fact that Lewis tried various experimental settings with unclear outputs,
which made any data gathered from his car tainted and therefore were poor representation of the actual design performance.
George on the other and provided Mercedes with consistent and reliable results.
With little modification to his car, his output would be a better baseline representative in determining whether the original car concept they have actually have a potential or not.
The problem Mercedes had with Lewis is either they cannot made a ground effect car that is compatible with Lewis driving style,
or that Lewis isn't capable of adapting to the new regulation.
This is exacerbated by the fact that Lewis doesn't like doing simulator runs so they have very small data to work with.
Changing the concept would be risky, as it means starting from scratch.
And as pointed out it would not guarantee that the outcome would be compatible with Lewis driving-style
@@gelmir7322 source: trust me bro
@@gelmir7322 I can't agree with you on that. This new ground effect rule and floor design has changed the areo balance alot and with Merc bringing in the new rear suspension it through off the mech balance as well making setting up the car for Lewis, a driver they have years of data on, alot more difficult unlike George who came from a team struggling with such issues for years even with a Merc engine couldn't compete. hence how it would be easier for George to adjust according to any new set up thrown at him with a powerful engine in it. Even with the W14 the fastest times between the 2 are coming from Lewis but that comes with alot of oversteer if the balance is off which leads to tyre wear. Bahrain showed how quick Lewis went from catching Sains +0.339 all the way to +3.6... in just a few laps and thats why i also agree with him when he says the sidepods aren't the issue here because the speed is there. IMO to get the perfect balance of downforce, balance and tyre deg would be best to take the person who is driving the car's advice and not so much what the data says only.
Russell had the better pace earlier on.
He even asked the pitwall why Lewis was so slow because Lewis cause him to lock-up his tyre as he entered the corner while Lewis was ahead.
Pitwall replied that Lewis was actually struggling.
That lock-up pretty much destroyed the rest of his race.
As he already destroyed his tyres early, he also had to defend against alonso
He was complaining for a pit stop
but Mercedes prioritized Lewis first.
Hence Lewis ended up with the better strategy overall and put Russell within reach of Lance attack.
I won't be surprise if Mercedes enforced team order in favor of Lewis,
Considering that Russell didn't try as much to challenge Lewis when he had the better pace.
Probably the same thing that happened to WTF1 , the top people left
If Mercedes didn't get that Brazil 1-2 last year they would've changed their concept and had a better car this season
Depending on who you ask? Lol, 2 years later and still putting this? 😂
*_When someone who never heard about Juan Manuel Fangio call Lewis Hamilton "The Greatest Driver Ever"..._* 🤦♂️👎
GOAT! Sir Lewis!
Did Red Bull had a “less mature aero-package in 2021?”
Lol Merc crying since F1 isn't actually massively favoring them.
They aren't crying Meanwhile you were for the past 7+ years lol
They're still top 4 and capable of a win or two.
I was willing to give the new crew a chance, but it seems they're part of or trying to appease the teamLH cult.
Ferrari: I am I joke to you?
"2021 produced a title fight that Mercedes rivals eventually won".
Mercedes won the constructors championship in 2021.
You love to see it
Engineers and aerodynamicists got it wrong, simple. James Allison was better at downforce, Newey nailed it with ground effect. You can't expect a group of engineers to conquer every challenge that's thrown at them. Losing is a part of any sport. Hopefully they'll untangle themselves.
In my perception mercedes loose speed is bec of there team personnel, experimenting the car, lock of physics😜 approach in 2022 2023 regulations and budget cap.
Im still here. Im still watching. I dont care who is creating the content. Just dont become Lecler fan boys for gods sake!
The current Merc car is not at all competitive and now with the rise of Aston Martin OMG it's back to the drawing board time for AMG PETRONAS!
The Mercedes rolled the dice with their side pod concept, and lost. It happens…
The problem is that they are too stubborn to admit it doesn’t work, and they blame everyone else instead.
I always say we shouldn’t judge people based on how they make mistake, but how they handle that mistake afterwards. And Mercedes failed big in this…
Not sure which downfall is bigger. Mercedes or WTF1?
Your encouragement to the new guys is noteworthy.
They should just build a new car and label it “croissants” in their income statement
Exactly!😂
Who cares cost cap? Redbull had a minor breech andget away with it. It is still ok if merc end up with deleted points. Having a race winnig car and finishing p6 is way better then being slow and finishing p4 for the the next year.
That was the lesson I got from the Red Bull budget debacle. A minor breach is simply the cost of winning, it's all transactional.
When you've got teams like Aston who can make a huge leap in performance over the winter and having the bonus of full wind tunnel time, this might change the pecking order substantially.
Lol how did a dominant channel lose their view count?
Kane is just not about football if he stays at spurs
Lol at Hamilton being “arguably the best driver ever”. Dude had to beat his teammate to win and he didn’t even do that every year.
Yes he is the best. He beat his team mates far more times than they beat him if at all
@@autograndeunlimited the fact they beat him at all means he’s not.
I love the little plot twist "depending on who you ask " 😂😂😂
1:25 that their enemies WON. Say it. They WON. That’s it. Not depending on who you ask, none of that bs. Max is the 2021 champion.
He was giving the championship unfairly. Stolen from Hamilton
@@Maruman_man Nothing was stolen. He was the better driver over the course of the whole season and he won.
3 things imo were the downfall of Mercedes
1 - They had by far the best power unit
2 - unlimited resources
3 - use of "questionable" mechanical devices to keep the car in the best operating window.
All 3 disappeared
Did you ask Red Bull in 14 then too?
Answer: A regulation change
Here's what I'd really like to see at Mercedes. Lewis Hamilton not so goddamned dull all the time and quit saying, "Let's keep pushing" at the end of races over the team radio. I'm getting really sick of that
It’s a very small point, but you mentioning “let’s keep pushing” getting annoying jumped out at me. I’m glad it’s not just me that finds that statement and the predictability of it frustrating
It's called karma
This is some extreme British cringe.
Hamilton is the luckiest F1 driver ever - lucky to be in a team that had the dominant car for 7 years. That's it. He's a great driver...but the greatest? In the same car, beaten by Rosberg, beaten (sometimes) by Bottas, & beaten consistently by Russel. Getting spanked comprehensively by Verstappen now. When he doesn't have the advantage of the fastest car, he's just a driver.
You’re describing Crymacher
He was owned by Rosberg. Spanked by him in fact. Rosberg was given preferential treatment since 2013 and still lost and was desperate for luck to go his way in 2016 and it did.
Anyways #stillyoucry
@@AZBCDEE #stillyoucry cries the Hamilton fanboi 😝
Lewis is actually very unlucky sometimes. He just HAD to win in 2007, but his team had a bad strategy, and he had engine problems in Brazil.
He has lost so many points during the 2012 season due to engine problems and bad pit stops
He lost 2016 because of an engine failure in Malaysia.
He could’ve been 1st in Russia 2021 with Max in 7th. Another title in the bag.
He might have won this year in Spain, Silverstone, Hungary, and Brazil, but you know what happened next. He also should’ve got 5th in Abu Dhabi, but his shifts weren’t working. Maybe he could’ve won in Zandvoort. Probably not, but the safety car came into the pits for some reason, and he lost a podium, never mind a top 2 finish. Lewis dominated quali in Singapore, but he decided not to go again, and he lost 2nd and 3rd. He finished 9th in the race. If he was on pole, he would confidently be dominating the race. If he was the luckiest driver in f1, he would’ve been in a title decider in 2022.
Lmao no it takes skill to be picked by a great team as a rookie and leave that team for a at the time worse team.
Lmao nico only beat him once and that was because Lewis had reliability issues eg Malaysia that's why nico retired immediately because even he knew he was lucky to get a WC
Lmao he beat nico more times as he did bottas and George. Lmao is that why Lewis beat George in the last race? 🤡
Lmao how is he getting spanked? By that logic when Lewis was spanking bottas nico Alonso and max you didn't do anything but cry 🤣
Lmao so max is just a driver because without the fastest car he can't win
@@thelimatheou says the max fangirl 🤡😊
I want Mclaren and williams to get better !
Hello
hi there 👋
@@WTF1official big fan! Keep it up with the great content!
Mercedes lost some very experience aero dynamicist, this is why they having problems with the car. Mike Elliot is the only person close to what they had and apparently he isn’t good enough. they got a lot of new young inexperienced people new to F1 working at Brackley. Man Mercedes winning day is over..
Yo
yoooo
they dont hear their championship winner so the team is at fault same goes for ferrari
hiii
How??
Everything woke goes to sh!t; that’s how.
2nd here
Mercedes always over engineer their car, relying 💯 % on computer data..
I speak for everyone when I say that WTF1 is better with the new hosts.
Nobody speaks for everyone much less on such a subjective matter.
If I do say so myself….. hmm ha mmm ha ha
WtfL