Justified: City Primeval Destroys Raylan Givens
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- čas přidán 3. 09. 2023
- No, the fan service at the end of the season did not redeem this thing.
Sorry...but it just made it worse.
Feel free to follow along on Twitter (X) at: / middleagedbaby2 - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Hi all! Just you fellas talked me into watching the final three episodes and, well...um...I hate you.😉
No, seriously...I'm glad I did, but it did really suck and only made me hate the showrunners even more! Given how the story wrapped up, what seemed incredibly anticlimactic given how often we've seen Raylan shoot bad guys for faster than he got around to plunking Mansell, and the sad fan service in the last 15 minutes I was just left wishing that they'd made two different shows. The first would have been an actual adaptation of Elmore Leonard's novel WITHOUT Raylan being shoehorned into it for no reason other than pandering to fans, and/or an actual Justified revival that honored long time fans of that show and characters. Instead, we got neither.
Thanks to those of you that have found and enjoyed the channel and if you're here and like it, please consider subscribing and taking part in the conversation down here. It actually goes a LONG way in helping build the channel, and I'd certainly appreciate it.
Thanks, MAB
I quit watching when he slept with the NFL linebacker. You don't go from beautiful women to that without realizing the show was gonna suck.
My disappointment was Raylan's daughter having goo goo ga ga baby voice and then finding out its Timothy Olyphant real daughter.... I mean you got to love your kids no matter what but holy shit it's like nails on a chalkboard when she talks.
Yeah, I'm not sure is she actually speaks that way or if it was a character choice but either way...wow. It was hard to listen to. But, she, like Raylan, wasn't in the novel so everything involving her which made no sense was also things they yanked out of their asses and inserted into the Leonard novel. Thanks, MAB
I agree Vivian gave absolutely nothing to the experience. The girl really needs some lessons
I had hope that they would develop Willa into some sort of little badass that was going to end up being a cop somehow as well. Much to the dismay of Rayland ...
Jwokefied. It's really sad that they're destroing all the heroes.
All this show did was make me want to watch the original series again...
Had I not just done a rewatch earlier this year I'd agree. What it REALY made me want to do is read the novel it was "based" on, so I'm eager to start that when it shows up this week. Thanks, MAB
The FX Network ordered the last 15 minutes with Boyd added after terrible audience reviews. The show was supposed to end in the kitchen when he kill that jag bag. They tried to save Raylans legacy but its too late. They admitted to making Raylan woke and Olyphant also was a part of that but people that age set in their ways don't change. Im 59 and while I respect the opinions of others I have never become Woke. I'm the same man I always was and so would Raylan Givens. It was all forced. They made sure to cover every pronoun and sexual preference in this show just for the sake of the critics love. It was a steaming pile of crap! Thats a shame too because the original was a great show.
Yes, I'm still left wondering WHY Timothy Olyphant agreed to do this garbage and crap all over the character that he had so beautifully crafted over five seasons of "Justified". What, had he lost all his money gambling or something, so he NEEDED a multi-million dollar payday??
And I also think that the writers must have been really mad about something - so they intentionally wrote the most terrible scripts that they could come up with. Seriously - "Justified: City Primeval" looks like a product of people who were purposely TRYING to make the most awful TV series that they could. If THIS had been the first season of the series, "Justified", the show probably would have been cancelled halfway through season one.
I don't think I've ever been so totally disappointed by a sequel.
You get an up-vote AND a new subscription for being so right. This thing was disastrous. Not one thing worked. Nothing. I tried to make excuses during the first episode but after that, there was no denying it. Didn't care for one single character, not even Raylan. Kudos to the costumer tasked with camouflaging Carolyn's belly...those high waisted dresses had a fight on their hands...
Thanks, really appreciate the kind words and the sub. I hope you go back and find some other things you enjoy now that you're here!
Yeah, the high skirts were doing ALL kinds of work, but occasionally she'd wear something lose fitting and you could see her protruding stomach arched out. The entire thing was absurd. haha
Thanks, MAB
Thank you for agreeing with me. I was afraid it was just me but NO, IT WAS AWFUL. What was with the dark, morose lighting, I strained my eyes so bad just trying to see who was who. And Raylan’s hair was the worst, it looked like a container of grey paint was just combed through it.
No! Thanks for agreeing with ME! This is a lonely position to be in, honestly, and it's always great to know others think similarly. But that's the thing...it shouldn't be. The more people feel comfortable saying what they think, the less strange it'll be to hear similar views. One of the main reasons I started the channel was because I thought that I could bring a slightly different perspective to these things...hopefully a little bit deeper? But I always assumed there were plenty of people who agreed, and so far that's been the case. I get VERY little negative feedback, honestly...ad that's great and goes to show you you're viewpoints are not alone. Biggest issue has been getting CZcams to get it in front of enough people so that more can see them, but...I don't have a ton of control over that.
In any event, I sincerely thank you for taking the time to say that and I couldn't be happier that you're here.
Oh...Olyphant's hair. hahaha Well, he's been almost fully gray for a while now, so I guess they just decided to let it stay that way to help show age? Dunno. I mean, I get that Raylan would not be the type of guy to color his hair, but Olyphant barely looks any older, so the gray really ages him more than he probably needed to be. ;)
This is why I hate all current TV.
Understood. The only thing I've REALLY liked recently has been The Bear on FX. Absolutely fantastic show that's not touched with "current thing" politics at all, and I'm super bothered by that so I'd notice. It features all the things you'd need from a modern show, but it's done within a show where that makes sense. Set in a restaurant in Chicago, so a "diverse" cast makes total sense and it all feels organic. The acting is out of this world and the writing is top notch.
If you're looking for something running now that's worth it, this is a sure thing. Two seasons in and it's been perfect thus far. Thanks, MAB
@@themiddleagedbaby cool. I'll check that out. Thanks!
@@JC_Chappy You got it! I'm thinking about doing that as my next video for Monday. Things have been pretty negative here for a bit and I'd like to really rave about a thing I love for once! 🤣 Thanks, MAB?
Justified was one of my favs. Happy to see it come back and spent the summer rewatching all the first 6 seasons in order. Just started the City Primeval and on episode 5 and IT COMPLETELY SUCKS! They destroyed all the good stuff about the original. I live near Cleveland and been to Detroit many times and this does not even remotely feel like Detroit.
Throwing up after seeing episode 5.
I'll never get that tub scene out of my head. All I kept thinking was, "Why did you clowns have to show us THAT, but not ONCE did we get to see Winona or Ava in a damn tub?!?"
Seriously...just amazing. Thanks, MAB
They just had to cut off his balls didn't they ?
Why do they all have the same trope? Broken marriage moody delinquent of a child that only barely puts up with the father. These writers are so dry with talent they all Ctrl c - Ctrl v.
Why can't they see a guy, you know, HAPPY!
It would be nice character progression from one season to the next. We had 6 seasons of the angry a'hole. Now we could have had the love and support of a good wife and the responsibility of his adoration of his child (who appreciates his care) mellows him to be a less angry a'hole. Give him something more to live for than just doing the job. But that would require something lacking in todays writers............ Quality, ability and talent.
This is a great point, and I think it's because most of these writers are simply writing from either their own shitty personal experiences or because they themselves have no traditional homelives either. They also simply don't have the life experiences of the great writers they're leeching off of.
Elmore Leonard was born in 1925 and served for three years in the Navy in the South Pacific during WWII with the Seabees (which is a construction unit.) He'd lived a life before ever becoming a writer. And the people adapting his work? I'll go out on a limb and say, "Significantly less..."
There's a reason there's no gravitas to much of today's writing...the writers themselves have none. Thanks, MAB
My problem was Mansell. He was a character that could've been solved in a two-parter at most in the original series. He wasn't smart enough or wild enough to deserve the reputation that was built up in-universe or by the showrunners. Every victory he had wasn't due to how deadly he was, but because of how stupid the people around him were.
Yeah, Mansell - especially when compared to Boyd Crowder - was a pitiful excuse for the master villain of a cops and robbers show.
Justified just doesn’t work outside of a place like Harlan. Kentucky and its denizens and Raylan’s relationship with them is made it an interesting show. There’s already a thousand cop shows set in urban environments, this is such a generic “big city” vibe. The “modern audience” pandering also certainly doesn’t help.
Agreed. Much as I like your preferred version, there is no way they bring back Nick Searcy as I assume he's been blacklisted for not being in the woke club. Too bad because he was one of the main supporting characters I enjoyed watching.
Yeah, Nick Searcy was so good in the original and so underrated. And yeah, he's one hell of a follow on Twitter and I'm actually stunned he was part of the original show. Can't imagine he sat around and had any long conversations with Patton Oswalt when he was playing Constable Bob. haha
Thanks, MAB
That's where they went wrong in my estimation. Should've changed the title when Raylan and Crowder left but kept the same cast together, kinda like The Closer changing into Major Crimes. Same personnel changes you suggested for the Harlan office, but let Art do private eye work after retiring. If anyone could do a proper version of Jim Rockford, it's Nick Searcy. Man, I would've followed that show anywhere...
1. The final episode resolved the first 7 episodes in 10 minutes and was anti-climactic. That was terrible pacing so I agree the final episode did not save the show.
2. I agree with you that the actual protagonist was Carolyn Wilder and I think a video on whether she is actually good would be worth watching. She never actually helps anyone in the show. Sweetie looked out for her and Raylan looked out for her but who did she look out for besides herself? She made a deal with the Devil to become a judge despite her judgment being terrible eg. duped by her usurious, womanizing ex over and over; representing a man who would later break into her house etc. And how does she say she makes her living? By defending killers she knows are guilty of heinous acts like murdering innocent young women.
This show encapsulates the identity politics of projecting a person as good because they are not white or a man despite zero acts contributing to humanity- a scumbag lawyer getting rich by defending the worst people in society is good because she is a non-white woman. This is who should be a judge- someone who is lenient on the killers of women and the innocent, and who views that representation amorally for profitability. Did she smile once in the whole show? Express any warmth? Look out for anyone else?
You know Raylan half-way calls her out on this when he shows up at her house after the sting with the prosecutor in the park goes bad and Mansell walks again and he tells her something to the effect of, "I'm not sure what YOU got out of that, Carolyn, but all I got was a bruised ego and a monster back out of the street that thinks he's even more untouchable." When she gave him that name, she didn't bother to tell him WHY.
Further, she helped set yup her OWN CLIENT, an act that would have 100% had her disbarred, and yet she ends up a judge. haha Thanks, MAB
But Mike, I’m sure the writers would say she’s a girl boss. She doesn’t need any of that caring about others, adding value, or likability…. It’s too bad because I think the actress was good but the role just didn’t make any sense and was terrible… if I really had to guess I think they were hoping to get 2 shows out of this. She could have a Detroit show and they could milk another Raylan season.
I think the new series was a little goofy. Before it seemed closer to reality. It seems that the producers forgot the concept of target audience, trying to please everyone.
Totally agree with this video essay. At best, it was like bad fan fiction. And even that is giving it the benefit of the doubt. This mini-series had almost nothing to do with either the original source material or the original series.
And I like your pitch for a much better series. For me, this one, J:CP is better left forgotten. If I can.
I was actually digging the fan-service: until it was over and then I just felt ripped off. For me, it undercut the original ending and while it was cool seeing the Boyd and Winona again, it didn’t add anything to the original and if anything, it took away from it.
Thanks for sharing your take on this.
Appreciate the kind words and glad you enjoyed it! Thanks, MAB
Your idea for a better show is pretty on point.
Justified- City Woke- eavel
ROFL! - Awesome comment! - SO true.
Ahhh…yeah that makes sense. It’s about the show having a Black love interest and Black characters that aren’t just filler criminals that everyone is up in arms about. We all know “woke” means Black when it comes out of racist white ppl’s mouths. 👀
@@2kooldancin OK Skippy. I guess they met the quota then so the ESG and DEI numbers are good?
I just watched the first episode and...
I hated it.
Glad to confirm I can just treat this like Star Wars...
Sequel? What sequel? You must mean the books...
How TF did Olyphant go along with this Bullshit??? He HAD to know that it didn't fit the character.
So Stupid, it’s Baffling. The people behind all this. All I can say is what the Hell were they thinking.
He gets to put his kid who can not act in it
This isn't the first time we've seen an actor allow a studio to fully wreck a character he'd made iconic with his full support.
Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Indiana Jones, etc. This idea that we want to see our heroes humbled and made lesser than we remember them is crazy. Only actor that seems to grasp this is Tom Cruise, who fully avoided this with both Maverick and the Mission Impossible franchise. No one wants to see Maverick turned into a has been who has to be saved or put in his place.
And if fans don't want to see this, and it's clear we don't, then why does it keep happening? hmmmm...
That is the million dollar question!!
Maybe he just ain’t that smart, I watched some of his other stuff wasn’t that good, just run of the mill.
Once in a lifetime opportunity with this role and in my opinion he has blew it.
This show just pissed me off. I don’t know what they were thinking
"Hey...people loved Justified, and they loved Raylan. I know! Let's take another Elmore Leonard novel since his novella was what Justified was based on, and jam Raylan into it...and call it Justified 2, Electric Boogaloo." haha
I would have been 100% against a Justified revival. It's SOOOOO hard to end a great series well and they knocked theirs out of the park...so anything after was going to ruin that "ending." But, they could have made a quality revival that was ACTUALLY Justified. Instead, they decided to still Raylan into a story he was not in, City Primeval, and in doing so had to alter his character so much he became a shell of his former self AND they ruined the entire point of the novel. Thanks, MAB
When the show started I was all in with Holbrook's Mansell villain. From the start I was looking forward to that final showdown ... and man what a disappointment.
Mansell taking out the entire Albanian clan in a few minutes was another big letdown
And yes I had the same problem with him hooking up with Carolyn. I can't get past that IMO it was more of a political commentary than anything else. Zero chemistry together, never made sense.
Yeah, I like Boyd Holbrook as an actor and thought he was solid here. I just wish there was some obvious motivating factor we got from him. Maybe there was some in the novel...I'll have to see when I read it. But all of the main bad guys from the original series had some obvious motivating factor that animated them. I think why it was a let down for me is because old Raylan would have forced that confrontation way before then. We saw him do that before with guys begging to throw down with him. Granted, Boon came after him near the end because Markham was dead and he was off the leash, but he was only on three episodes and was dying to draw down with Raylan, who was itching to oblige him.
Don't get me started on Carolyn...I'm trying to forget that bath scene. hahaha Thanks, MAB
Your assessment of the series City Primeval was sooooo spot on! They wasted Raylin in this waste of film. Was so looking forward to this, but they just gutted Raylin. Thanks for your outstanding insight.
Raylan didn't leave Harlan alive. :(
So let me disagree a liiiittle bit and agree a lot more.
I actually think this was a totally logical direction for the character to go.
So Raylan's arc originally was about whether or not he would be ruled by his anger or if he would overcome it and be a better lawman. This is why the climax of it was Raylan NOT shooting Boyd.
Raylan's moral code is that if the other guy draws first, it's justified, and now ten years on having learned some lessons he's trying to do things the right way - like how he ultimately got Boyd.
But as it turns out, the system is broken. Wendell is resigned to it, Beryl becomes harsh in response to it, Maureen goes corrupt, and even the incorruptible lawyer plays some tricks. Raylan's attempt to do things "right" leads to a lot more deaths and him shooting an unarmed man.
And then he's praised for it by the Marshal's service, which is all he needs to know. The system doesn't reward cops who do things right. It's broken on a deeper level, and he wasted his life.
My problem isn't that this is out of character. It's that it's DEPRESSING. Is there anyone who wanted to see this? Anyone?
I finished the original novel. You know what's crazy about it? THERE IS NO CORRUPTION SUBPLOT. None. Zip. Nada.
The critique of the novel is actually about - let's be honest - bleeding heart liberals who make laws that help criminals and keep cops from being able to do their jobs. Mansell thinks Cruz won't shoot but Cruz proves that he can manipulate the law to his advantage just as easily as Mansell can, waiting for a moment where he reaches into his pocket so he has an excuse to take him out. Poetic justice.
This was a terrible adaptation of the book and an incredibly depressing Justified sequel.
Oh and Sweety is straight, and a born again Christian. Just saying.
My hardcopy of the novel should be in this week. Got another book in the queue first, but this one's after that. Thanks, MAB
The book is short, and I'd love to see a video comparing the original novel and show
@@anthonymarchetta8796 Yeah, that would be fun!
8:41 To be honest, that does sound pretty perfect. That sounds like an awesome return to Justified. I kinda feel bad that you said, cause now I know we'll never get it.
Thanks, man...I appreciate that. Truth is, I'd have preferred they just let Justified rest since they ended the story so perfectly, but a much better Justified story was certainly out there floating in the aether that could have been given to fans. Instead, they bastardize a classic Elmore Leonard novel and force Raylan into it, so fans of Justified and the original novel are both left pissed. Dumb all around...
Thanks, appreciate the comment! MAB
SPOT ON review!!! nuff said.
Awesome...thanks, I appreciate you saying that! MAB
Great review.
There is one good thing about this serie. It made me took a break at episode 6 and rewatched the whole original series this summer.
Thanks showrunners.
First, thanks...appreciate that a lot. Second, it's always a great time to rewatch the original!
What this show made me do is buy the Elmore Leonard novel because there was a clearly a great story underneath this crap they produced and I wanted to read it for myself. Hardcopy will be in shortly! Thanks, MAB
Justified season 2 was a masterpiece, best season hands down. The entire series had some weak moments but all together one of the best shows.
Mags Bennett is one of the greatest characters in TV history and when you do a rewatch you realize she's WOREFULLY under used, especially in comparison to the amount of screen time Darrell Crowe, Jr. got in season 6. Thanks, MAB
I would watch your version. Even if it was hate watching 😂
Take my basic story layout and give it to a quality writing team..."Gold Jerry...GOLD!" Thanks, MAB
The short cop chewing his gum was just a poor impersonation of Josh Browlin in Saccario. Also, no man with Raylan's boudoir resume falls for Ving Rhames with a wig.
Imagine how much better it would have been with Rachel as the love interest
There’s a reason why ur comment didn’t get any likes. It’s not about how “pretty” Carolyn was, it’s about the fact that she was Black at all. So even if Rachel was the love interest, they still wouldn’t have liked that bc she’s Black.
I think both of you are wrong- doesn’t matter if she was pretty or black, she wasn’t well written and the the audience could tell. Just like the plot, the characters were superficial and uninteresting- the only reason they brought Raylan (and the fan service of Boyd and Winona) in the mix was for a hype that couldn’t deliver bc it was dead on arrival. The script didn’t justify (get it?) a production. Even worse they butchered well established. characters, effectively poisoning the well they tried drawing water from. Rachel dodged a bullet by not being in the show and I wish that were true for everyone else involved.
i think raylan was more suprised mansell had a tape and a gun and thats why he looks that way
This was not a show worthy of a name title of Justified in it. I hope that if there is a season 2 that it will have ORIGINAL SHOW WRITERS.
It really wasn't. Part of me would like them to fix what they've broken, but honestly I'd be afraid they'd make it even worse. haha Thanks, MAB
I'm glad I never continued after the first episode.
I love the original show too much to continue with what was obviously going to destroy the character and put him in a setting to call him a racist and degrade him for being a LEO. The original is as close to perfect as you can get.
And I agree wholeheartedly about Micheal Rappadork as Dale Crow, I like that season and the idea of his character. His accent came off as a parody of the accent from where he's portraying, but I don't believe Rappadork is smart enough to understand parody, so it is solely his bad acting. If it had been cast differently, then I believe it could work better.
Well, I've never seen it but I heard about it and I like the actor from the few roles I've seen him in. Plus his appearances on Conan o Brian and The Mandalorian. I always figured if I ever have access to it I might check it out. Is this one of those "Make your own franchise" situations where I shouldn't bother to go past the original series?
Yeah Rob...the original series is DEFINITELY worth the watch. Really an absolute classic and easily a Top 10 show for me. Tim Olyphant kills it and Walton Goggins is otherworldly as his nemesis/alter ego Boyd Crowder.
And yeah, the series ended with one of the most satisfying endings you could ask for, so there was NO reason to do this. 100% stop after the final episode of the original.
Typical Hollywood. Can't leave well enough alone. I'll check it out, thanks!@@themiddleagedbaby
The Original Series and this pos miniseries are literally 2 different shows. The original series is my personal all time favorite show. Fantastic writing / acting. This show is just ... ugh. BAD.
I just found out about the remake? Continuation? Was gonna binge it, cuz I love Justified. But thank you for sparing me from watching Raylan get the Indy treatment from South Park.
I watched two episodes and I didn't hear any of the wit or wisdom we had i Harlan County. I was out.
Crazily enough, I think the best "Raylanism" we got the whole season was one of his first lines to his daughter. She was stalling wanting to get taken to school and said they didn't need to hurry because they were on time.
Raylan hit her with, "There is no 'on time.' You're either 'early' or you're 'late.' Where you're going, you're gonna' be early."
I can't image there are gonna' be any iconic quote gifs that will be spawned by this show, can you? Thanks, MAB
@@themiddleagedbaby I remember that one as well. You are correct.
As a kid I was obsessed with justified and Raylan givens. I would watch the show over and over again. I even made up a dance for the opening song lol. So I can say with 100 percent conviction, that this shit broke my heart and I will never. Ever. Watch that shit again.
I've been THIS CLOSE on numerous occasions to tracking down the Stetson Raylan wears in the show for my 16 year old son who loves the show like you...except as it turns of there were a bunch of them in the series and they're all slightly different (weird, right?) and the official maker I found is crazy CRAZY expensive! haha
I'm pretty hard on shows that ruin their predecessors, but thankfully this didn't do that for me when it comes to the original series. I'm sure I'll do a rewatch sometimes in 2024... Thanks, MAB
the show was pretty tame compared to the original series
While I agree about Carolyn being ugly, I don't think City Primeval destroys Raylan. Raylan felt bad about killing Clement because he wanted to kill him before he reached for the cassette tape. Note how Raylan didn't try to arrest Clement after he broke in to Carolyn's house. He was waiting for Clement to pull on him and felt guilty about the shooting because it wasn't a clean fight like with everyone else he shot. And if you recall Raylan's character arc in the regular series, he wanted to be better than his father. Now that he has technically murdered a man, he realized that he can be as bad as his father.
I would absolutely watch your Justified revival!!
I love some Team America, f$%k yeah!!
Great review MAB!!
Or something close to it, right? All things being equal I'd have liked them to let it lie...but if they WERE gonna' dig it up, make it worth it! And yeah, Team America is an absolute favorite of mine. They marionette sex scene might be the funniest thing in the movie... hahaha
Thanks a bunch! MAB
Particularly slimey the way they dangled Boyd in the last few moments, so we will expect good Justified from any sequel, instead of more muddled garbage
F*ck man! That would been awesome! Just the made up synopsis got me all nostalgic! Thats such an awesome idea making boyd the opposite to Arthur! Walton goggins would kill it playing an older much more bitter cynical version of boyd instead of him going back to his faith they should have had him becoming much darker after how everyone he loved and trusted betrayed him and he was kinda heading that direction in that scene "the ballad of boyd crowder" where he shoots that innocent man and more or less says he is going down a darker road anyways, so then you have raylan trying to believe lorretta is just in over her head and is still mostly innocent and she plays that up acting like she is trying to help raylan take down the bad guys who are pushing the H, but then through something boyd told him earlier he finally comes to realize Loretta used him to take down her rivals making her the top kingpin in all of Kentucky and expanding into all the surrounding states, but when he realizes it, its to late and for the first time someone beats raylan to the draw because his guard was down and Loretta shoots him through the chest just like he did to boyd and so many others, he survives, like boyd also did, but Loretta gets away and at the end of the season he finds out that Loretta helped boyd escape because they had secretly been working together to deceive raylan and boyd is the one thats been teaching her how to be a kingpin and giving her all her connections setting up a season two show down!
Boom...you see! In the hands of a quality writing staff whose goal was to write something that would appeal to fans of Justified, there could have been a story there. Great additions and I love the idea of Raylan getting shot by Loretta who's been fooling him the whole time. Yeah...well done! Thanks, MAB
@@themiddleagedbaby oh snap! I've never got a reply from a youtuber before! This is kinda awesome! Lol thank you very much for the video and your reply! I'm definitely tuning in from here on!
@@jamesbrown6020 My friend, it doesn't matter how long I do this, and how successful it becomes (hopefully long and very) I'll never EVER refer to myself as a CZcamsr! haha I'm just a guy with some opinions that can toss them out here and hopefully people find something in them to enjoy, debate, argue about, etc. Trust me, I'm far more excited that you and everyone else decided to click that thumbnail and watch something I put together in my home office while my dogs barked and insisted they be let in and out 100 times a day. ;)
Truth is, this is "Message in a Bottle" type stuff, so the fact that anyone ever sees this stuff AND enjoys it still seems crazy to me...so no, thank you! I'm honored to have you guys here and I enjoy the hell out of extending the conversations in the comments when I can. If/when things get busier and comments come in faster and in bigger numbers this may be harder to keep up with, but for now this is great. My on-line history is mostly message boards so I'm used to having long form discussions with people, so this is right up my alley.
Glad to have you, JB...thanks, MAB
Yeah, this was a major disappointment. Justified was a fantastic show, especially season 2 to the end, because the writing just seemed to get better and better, the characters all had interested personalities or quirks, and man, the dialogue just was fire. Primeval just didn't live up to half of what the original Justified show was.
I'm going through my first binge and about to start season 6. I'm nervous about primeval. At least they had the courtesy not to call it season 7....
I envy you getting to enjoy the finale episode for the first time. Enjoy! Thanks, MAB
And that’s why no one cares that they’re on strike.
Precisely...
Such a stupid thing to say lol
Love your idea for how it should have been done.
Thanks...really just an idea of who was left in Harlan when Raylan left and what might bring him back.
It's just if you're gonna' ruin one of the greatest endings in TV history, there better be a damned good reason and you'd better make it worth it. What we got here was a slap in the face of that finale and the writers who wrote it. Thanks, MAB
@@themiddleagedbabyAgree with your point about Justified largely only working in KY. It’s the crazy hillbilly local characters and the fact that it’s 10x crazier and more dangerous than any big city that makes it interesting. Also, the fact that Raylan hates it there, desperately wants out, but seems to be comfortably in his element at the same time. It doesn’t help that 99% of Hollywood forgot how to write over the last ten years.
@@SR-ob3wn Yeah, I said in the second video, but there's something so true about Raylan's behavior while in Harlan. Anyone from a small town that left and goes back knows this feeling. And with Raylan, he clearly always carried himself above others there, even though he was exactly the same. And now that he's gotten out, the last thing we wanted to do was go wade around with "those people" again. Forcing him to go back there triggers that "angriest man I've ever known" thing Winona tells him he has and it's what keeps that tension running the entire series.
Thanks, MAB
it was a fine show. different because the material adapted but good. miss a bit more of action that is all.
But...Boyd 😂😂😂
Watched opening scene, fast forwarded through second episode and bailed when it was clear who was running the series. Returned for final 10 mins Episode 8 (incl Dwight Yoakam closing credits)
Yep agree w your videos, it was terrible… think there could easily have been a version of this that worked but they didn’t even try. I mean simple improvement. Scene at the beginning that Raylan is trying to follow the rules to make chief to fund the daughters college or something. So that’s why he’s doing this random thing in Detroit to get a big case and why he’s playing by the rules. But in the end he can’t do it and episodes 7 and 8 are him taking people out/down. Everyone would love it.
First, thanks...I really appreciate that.
Yeah, even few tweaks would have improved it...could have been so much better if they'd even TRIED. Thanks, MAB
I disagree this show amazing
Man, if they would only adjust the second season that includes Boyd into something that approximates what you just described in the end of your third video on the subject, I think it would probably redeem the situation... In fact, they could probably explain away a few things... That they got wrong in this reboot...
A "FEW" things they got wrong?? - Was there anything they got right? - If there was, I missed it.
That whole miniseries had a total of about 10 good minutes - when Boyd Crowder showed up at the very end. And Walton Goggins brief appearance only served to make it more crystal clear how horrible "Justified: City Primeval" was, as compared to the original "Justified" series.
Total opposites: "Justified" - one of the best TV series ever made..."Justified: City Primeval" - definitely in the running for "worst TV series ever".
I watched it through to the end - hoping it would get better at some point - actually thinking that it pretty much HAD TO get better at some point, 'cause it couldn't possibly get any worse. Well, I was wrong about that - it COULD get worse, and sure enough, it DID. Some kind of achievement there, I guess - I mean, pretty impressive to be able to start at the bottom...and yet somehow manage to sink lower and lower, episode by episode.
I enjoyed it, Raylan is older i think his daughter was miscast (i know its his actual daughter) - and the [spoiler] Boyd comeback at the end was expected and welcomed.
I always wonder how people will see me....I haven't grown at all..I also murder most things.
You know, until the final episode I kept saying "They forgot to make it entertaining". The producers were very specifically going against fan expectations. They also did not intend to show law enforcement in a positive light. They didn't want to have any shootouts. They also, I can't help but feel, didn't want Raylan shooting someone to be narratively satisfying in any way shape or form. How else do you explain that "showdown" where the guy was trying to be friends with Raylan instead of trying to kill him. So, I've gone from "forgot" to "They never intended to make it entertaining."
I think that's exactly right. The Raylan we used to know was a throwback lawman who did what needed to be done and skirted the edges of what was right, because the ends justified the means.
I mean this sincerely...people seem to forget that Justified was pre-2020, and the entire world changed after that, especially views on policing. Damn, there were calls to stop "glorifying" police in the kid's show Paw Patrol! There was entire shift made to stop making police look good in any way, and so many TV shows were police/law based. The tonal shift was obvious. Raylan...the OLD Raylan...would be entirely counter to that desire, so he needed to change as far as they were concerned. Fans LIKED what was now considered to be unacceptable. So, first scene in Detroit is Raylan being taken down for doing something we all liked and found perfectly fine in the originals series, which was put an unruly asshole in his trunk. That set the tone for the rest of the show, Raylan's demeanor, his lack of gun play, and his ultimate squeamishness for what would have been a perfectly justified shoot in the previous series.
They took Leonard's novel, which from what I'm told was far more Dirty Harry/Death Wish (in that the problems are a system which coddles criminals and doesn't hold them accountable and only a good man who takes matters into his own hands can get justice) and made it about police corruption and a law man who justifiably shoots a killer and then retires because he seems to feel bad about it... Just terrible...
Thanks, MAB
I had to skip the last 2 episodes , and skipped straight to the end , this was a hard watch
Yeah...watching this felt like penance for some unknown sin I must have committed. Whatever it was, it must have been REALY REALLY bad, though. Sure wish I could remember it... haha Thanks, MAB
@@themiddleagedbaby legit , I felt the same way ! Well I’m washing my soul after watching this train wreck and going back to season 1 of justified
I hope they do develope another Justified... maybe he could start out pursuing Boyd to Mexico,. but then Boyd finds out Rayland lied to him about Ava being dead n while he plans to hunt her down he goes full toxic Boyd when finds out Ave had a child by him. This could set up the real Rayland vs Boyd challenge from the heart.. Boyd out for revenge on Ava n Boyd's revenge on Rayland for protecting Ava n lying to him face to face when he visited him n prison.... Rayland could use Art to help hide Ava n the child while tracking Boyd .
I'm not sure I WANT to see yours or mine because I'd have rathered see the series end the way it did...but either would be far and away better than what we got, which was the point. ;) There was an organic, though unnecessary way, to revive the series...it just wasn't sticking Raylan into a story he didn't belong.
I do like the idea that Boyd would somehow find out about Ava...he'd be enraged at both she and Raylan. Thanks, MAB
It was terrible. 😂😂😂 The thought of these writers with a season dedicated to Boyd. Will be even worse.
The only good part of this show was his daughter. She even looks like him lol.
That’s because it’s his actual daughter.
Hey @@Noah-yw6uv, I know that is why I put the lol. She was great/
I was sort of interested until you had to bash Carolyn and insert the vomit meme. What is the purpose? I don't think there was good chemistry between them, but wow, what a stupid flex.
ur plot ngl woulda been sooo good.
Y'all commenting about women he's sleeping with, you gotta realize that he got older. Not every guy who is 55 year old wants to sleep with much younger woman. He's just not the womanizer he once was.
It's not about "much younger women" or being a "womanizer" - it's about the fact that, from five seasons of "Justified", we had a very clear, solid picture of Raylan's type when it came to women: tall, willowy blondes...which the love interest in "City Primeval" was pretty much the polar opposite of.
It was a good enough show, it just didn't loose Raylan Givens. I think it was the setting more than the character as Justified had a lot of family ties that could be worked through "we dug coal together".
I am a Justified fan I watch the complete series, at least five times, on Hulu and I have a full series on DVDs. The difference between Justified and justified city primeval were quite a few things. One in justified Raylan was in his element. He knew the area he knew the people. It was even a different cinematography along with the TV show everything was bright Natural light and outside except the scenes in Boyd’s, bar and other places. And at that point, Raylan was the gunslinger as most of the characters in the show called him. Was Justified great hell yes. I’m not a big Wynonna fan. I don’t think she looks that great and I couldn’t stand her character. She put Raylan in jeopardy a few times, now if we want to talk about Ava Oh yeah, Ava was smokin hot. Now let’s get to city primeval. It’s a few years down the road Raylan is a little more season a little older, not so quick on the draw a little more weary, he’s not in Harlan County, and not so quick to shoot and ask questions later. The landscape and the cinematography was quite different. Everything was dark and seedy like you would expect in a big city. He didn’t know who to trust. I didn’t really expect him to be shooting up Detroit. And during the show I won two bets. One that he would sleep with Caroline, two it would upset some of Raylan‘s fans. To me, Caroline is an attractive woman seeing how you show she was in the bathtub more or less like a sauna, but it just proves my two points one Raylan still got that dog in him. They wouldn’t like him sleeping with a black woman. It could’ve been Halle Berry. It wouldn’t of made a difference and you just prove that. I am an Elmore, Leonard fan a Timothy Olyphant fan and definitely a justified fan. Yes you’re right they could’ve had him go back to Harlan but wouldn’t have been any different would he have been the gunslinger that he was before and what you brought up about Rachel running the office And Art showing up every now and then mentoring her or Tim being the Raylan type character now would have caused problems yes.. Having said all of that, I’d like the series because I got to see another side of Raylan Givens if they bring out a season two as he goes after Boyd I’ll be there.
First, I can certainly see a preference for Ava over Winona for sure. Ava in the last two seasons with that shorter hair constantly walking around in those tight ass jeans? Sure thing! Scene I'm thinking about is her staking out the pizza joint for Boyd and talking to Cho-Cho after she left.
Second, I think you're making that assumption in regards to Raylan behaving the way he did in City Primeval, because we were never shown this, told this, etc. Remember, Raylan wasn't some young Marshall in the original sewing his wild oats. He'd been in the Mashal Service for a LONG time and this is who he was. If he was going to have changed between the shows, then the show runners should have made that change clear and explain, briefly, why it happened.
Third, I'm gonna' take issue with the accusation that my issue was that Carolyn was black, since I'd literally addressed this complaint IN DETAIL in my previous video calling the show a Bait & Switch. My issue is that she was unattractive and clearly fat, both traits were things Raylan had never once shown an interest in. Not only did I address this suggestion in the video, but went into greater detail in the comments section explaining how there would have been no issue had she been as hot as the previous women he'd been with. Race had ZERO to do with it. Multiple hot black women WERE mentioned to make the point. Now, beauty is some cases can be in the eyes of the beholder so if Carolyn is your type, be my guest. But we'd seen Raylan's women from the previous show and unless the prerequisite was just "probably having a vagina," then there's no reason to think she was HIS type, and that's the only thing that matters.
Appreciate the comment, but your way off with this accusation. Thanks, MAB
In an interview, Timothy Olyphant himself said that he himself was the one who pitched the idea for a City Primeval adaptation with Raylan as the lead to Quintin Tarantino on the set of Once Upon A Time in Hollywood. So, nobody got him to play the part, he did that on his own.
As far as Rylan being different from the original Justified goes, the plot takes place 15 years after that show went off of the air. There is no telling what all Rylan has been through in that time. So, he can be different, that is character development.
So what if he fornicated with someone that you don't find attractive, most guys have. That's actually more normal than you would think.
Rylan only shooting one person in the series made that shot mean something. Sure, Rylan is going to be a bit off after that. Remember, we haven't seen Rylan in years since the last series. For all we know he may have not shot anybody since that series ended. In the original series, Rylan shot less people in the later seasons, from the best of my recollection anyway.
My only complaint is really Mansell. There wasn't really any depth to that character in this series. Maybe it's different in the book.
If you have a good idea of what you think it should have looked like, write a fan fiction. I'd read it
Hard disagree,
Yes the show is different to the original series, but Raylan is about a decade older canonically in the new series.
People change in that much time quite significantly, some traits stick around while others leave forever, think about the type of person you were in 2014 and what you’ve changed since.
If they had brought the exact same character back with no changes that would have been disappointing, you need growth.
A lot of people got mad at the new series because they don’t like change, when for the most part he is just a character which has grown older and wiser
Dude, Raylan is much older now, has a daughter that’s almost grown. People grow and change. Raylan always had a conscious and always had to make things right and tell the truth. Outing himself several times to his superior. This was treated as a mini series, not a season. And I thought it was perfect. Dude I wish there was more action, yes. But I understood where they were going with it. I just hope they continue with Boyd
I keep hearing this, but all I can say is that at no point do they address this...they just want you to assume it. Raylan wasn't a young Marshal in Justified. He was late 30's at the start. This was a guy set in his ways, and it's why Winona could never change him. It's why Art couldn't ever get him to get with the program, ya' know? The writers needed to either show or tell you WHY he was different, because simply having a daughter (which he largely didn't raise) and going from his 40's to his 50's isn't an automatic cheat button for maturity.
Again, the reason Raylan feels out of place, that is his character is so different than what we remember his form the original) is because they altered his to better represent the ACTUAL hero of THIS story, who was Det Cruz...the retired cop he met with at the bar who had brought Mansell in the first time. The personality and mannerisms Raylan was portraying were Cruz's...not Raylan's. Now, I have lots of issues with the various "updates" they made to the story to fit within the 2023 modern audience paradigm, but I'd have LOVED it if they'd have just made City Primeval as a stand alone one off miniseries as a period piece and left Raylan and the Justified name off it. And while I'd have preferred they leave Justified alone since it wended so well, there was a way to bring it back that kept it true to what fans loved about the original. Instead, they picked the worst of both worlds.
Regardless, I appreciate you taking the time to leave a comment. Thanks, MAB
@@themiddleagedbaby they say it at the end his daughter changed him and 30s is young compare to 50’s.
I liked the series they had to make changes, it can’t be same as the first one. I thought it was a cool way to bring the character back for the fans even if it is a one off
@@wifflehead5974 Are you talking about during the conversation where he's talking to Winona and he tells her he retired? If so, I'm of the mind Winona was referencing the woman she assumed sent him the retirement gift (the bottle of bourbon she asked abut when she arrived.)
Winona: "What's that?" while looking at the present opened on the porch.
Raylan, "That is a retirement gift."
Winona: "That's funny."
Raylan: "Not a joke."
Willa: "You quit?"
Raylan: "Like I said...retired."
Winona: To Willa, "Can you give us a minute?"
Willa "You guys gonna' fight?"
She walks in and they talk about paint colors for her room.
Winona: Looking disappointed "When did you decide to do this?"
Raylan: "A week ago."
Winona: "You didn't talk to me about it?"
Raylan: "I didn't think I needed to."
Winona: "You ok?"
Raylan: "Yeah."
Winona: With her head down at first "Why now?"
Raylan: "The question I've been asking myself...why I didn't do it sooner." Raylan is looking at Winona here and I'm getting that he's telling her he should have done it FOR HER years ago like she'd begged him.
Winona: "Well if you couldn't do it for me...(she then rolls her head to the side NOT towards the house where Willa is) I'm glad you could do it for her." Here, I think Winona is making it clear she understands a woman gave him that gift, and Raylan has finally retired...but for another woman.
They stare at each other for a bit then she says, "Don't muck it up." She's CLEARLY not talking about his relationship with his daughter.
They then stare at each other as she backs out of the driveway while sort of sad music plays. This reads for all the world like Winona is truly hurt that Raylan finally retired and he did it for someone else.
So, that's a long way of saying, "I disagree." 😉 Raylan was literally written to be like the actual lead of the novel, which made him distinctly different than the Raylan we loved, and fans have been forced to make it fit.
@@themiddleagedbaby well if it was for her or his daughter, it lasted one day. On the boat Boyd escaped and left it, as if he would be going back to get him. Either way the new Raylan wasn’t gonna last long.
@@wifflehead5974 I mean, that's kind of my point, right? The reason Raylan seemed different during the season wasn't because he'd had some profound life altering experience with fatherhood or because he'd gotten older. He felt different because he was literally a different character...the one that had been the protagonist in the novel which they replaced with Raylan. If he'd REALLY changed and retired for whatever reason, he'd maybe have taken the phone call and then told whoever was on the line that he was retired and there were other Marshals available. Otherwise...not changed.
Fun exchange...I appreciate your take. Thanks, MAB
Great series! I hope they renew it for a new season!
I watched it not for rayan because I knew it would not do justice to him but for the bad guy. He was so good as a bad guy and that’s my two cent worth
Understood...I just wish we'd have gotten an actual backstory that felt like a reason for the things he did. Otherwise, Holbrook did a great job with what he was a given. Thanks, MAB
I don't think u understand the raylan character at all. Yes raylan uses excessive force to get his guy, but he has never killed someone in a way that was "unjustified" that is the reason why he always let's his enemies draw first so it's "justified" but the final showdown didn't go that way and that's why he has that look on his face.
That's my point though...this shooting was JUST as Justified as all the others. Mansell had a gun in his back that you can see when he reaches back. The fact that he pulled out a cassette in no way makes him unarmed or negate that he'd ALREADY threatened the life of a US Marsal, something Raylan had told Jody (black guy he'd once put in his trunk and who he ultimately gunned down at the bar.) If you recall he walked in and told him he could shoot him right there since he'd already threatened him. The fact that he got him to stand up and draw was just icing.
Think of it this way...it's not that Raylan ever shot anyone illegally (probably) but that in many cases he did straight up goad them into drawing on him so he could end them. The first shooting in the show is exactly that. He gave the guy 24 hours to leave town or else he'd kill him, and CLEARLY Bucks thought he was gonna' draw on him so he drew first. But that didn't HAVE to happen...Raylan forced it to. That's unlike this season where Raylan never came close to forcing Mansell into anything. Imagine all the facts of the shootings we knew Raylan took on the show coming to light in 2023...baiting guys into drawing on him? Imagine if he'd had a body cam? People like Carolyn would have lost her shit, whether he/we thought he was good or not.
In this series Raylan suddenly grew a conscience, where he'd had none before and for no reason. The Raylan of old would have NEVER thought twice about this shoot...but the showrunners were upfront in their desires to have Raylan be "growing" and not to "cheerlead for law enforcement." When people tell you who they are, it's best to believe them.
Either way, I appreciate you taking the time to leave a comment and add to the discussion. Thanks, MAB
@themiddleagedbaby I don't think u understand my comment either this shooting wasn't justified😂😂🤦
@@alexcross7583 How exactly wasn't it justified?
He'd already threatened a US Marshal, something Raylan is on record in the show saying that he could shoot a man for, and reached behind his back...where there WAS a gun? A LEO doesn't need to see a gun pointed at him before he can draw his weapon.
Raylan shot guys in the show for less. He shot the gun thug from Detroit simply for taking a step forward after being told not to. He had his gun at his side and never raised it.
If you think the Mansell shooting was clean, you might very well be the target audience...so I'm actually glad you're making this point for me. 😉
@@alexcross7583 Bro, what are you even talking about? Of course it was justified.
You're a detective, you should know this.
@562wiseguy I'm afraid it wasn't, I mean I'm a detective I no this stuff.
All the hate in the comments are hilarious, it was great.... Can't wait for the next season
Thank you! People like to go on about how a certain show should be properly written but never put in the effort to be writers themselves. Truth is they're under the delusion their prejudices are justified (no pun intended) and their opinions are the only ones that matter. Pretty pathetic.
what a load of absolute Horse crap, the show was done well for something we haven't seen in many years
Racist.
I'm gonna' happily leave this here, what with it being such a thorough and well documented argument and all. I think it's important that everyone be able to see this level of discussion and exchange of ideas, and I hate to deprive everyone of such.😉😂