Did Ancient Soldiers Get PTSD? DOCUMENTARY
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- čas přidán 19. 07. 2020
- We discuss ancient warfare and the question of Did Ancient Soldiers Get PTSD? Get Surfshark VPN at Surfshark.deals/invicta and enter promo code INVICTA for 85% off and 3 extra months for free!
This history documentary asks the question: Did Ancient Soldiers Get PTSD? To answer this we first begin with the modern definition of PTSD and examine the history of its development within the medical community. We then take a look at ancient warfare to discuss examples of soldiers and civilians who appear to display symptoms of PTSD. These include passages from the history of assyria, the history of ancient greece, the history of ancient rome and the medieval era. Specific examples are drawn from famous events like the Battle of Marathon or the Second Punic War. We then finally conclude by seeing what conclusions we can draw from these examples.
#History
#Documentary
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You really put out the dumbest question I have heard in a long long time, wtf is wrong with you man
Ww1 tool place in the early 20th century, please look it up
do vikings!
Did warriors who had the chance to call out their opposition on the battlefield, shouting out their forbears names and their lists of victories inviting a worthy warrior to come out for single combat suffer PTSD as theirs was the choice to do so and weren't constrained by commands to 'hold the line,' or 'over the top now.' I feel much of the problems is about not being in control in situations so would also ask does the alpha humans who expects to be able to control their environment around them suffer more than us lower betas lower IQ plebs who expect to be abused in one way or the other?
Just asking.
Also the assyrian medical quote is clearly speaking of sleep paralysis, hallucination, cognition, unable to move or speak out. How does that sound like PTSD? It doesmt even cover any of the symptoms you described in the video??
“Uncle Aquila, calm do- “
“THE GAULS, THEY’RE IN THE TREES!”
“ARGH HAVE AT THEE, FOUL GAUL!”
“UNCLE STOP! THAT’S MY CHILDREN’S SKULL NOT A GALLIC WARRIOR!”
@@SteveSmith-ty8ko "Uncle...talk to me...I understand. I still remember... the punitive expedition after Teutonberg Forest. I still see Centurion Heraclius' face at night. Telling me I let him down. They may not have been Gauls, but the Germanic barbarians were not a joke either."
Charlie's in the tree, maaaan. Funny enough, as a trucker in the US, we use that phrase when referring to cops on bridges w/ radar guns...they have runners post-bridge to chase down the speeders. "Copy southbound, you got a charlie in the tree at the exit".
I laughed far harder at this than would be acceptable in polite company
The trees talked maaaan
Trojan Veterans at support group: "They were hiding INSIDE THE HORSE, MAAAAAAAN!!!"
They'll never look at horses the same way
If I remember the Odyssey correctly...there were no Trojan veterans.
@@BoarhideGaming Romans claimed to have been the descendants of Trojan refuges according to the Aeneid. It's why the Romans had a weird hatred and respect for the Greeks.
Josephus the Scholar It was a joke, because 99.9% of Troja was looted, burned, murdered and torn down
Guess that's why Rome used the eagle instead of the horse.
It’s been suggested that a lot of the myths of Heracles reflect an ancient understanding of what we would call PTSD-the ultimate soldier, who can’t function in city life. Heracles has no proper place in a non-war setting, he frequently goes into fits of rage and madness when he tries to settle down to a family.
Perfect point i think people back in the past would've really struggled to fit in to city life, especially with soldiers being gone for years at a time, death and destruction constantly on there minds. The people from let's say WW2 had it bad but i can't imagine someone from Roman times trying to come back from a 5 year campaign where he saw 50 battles and killed probably over 100 people. That's if he even survived at all. You would've had people that couldn't care and would've loved dying for the Republic/Empire seeing as most were bought up this way to be taught that battle was a glorious thing from birth.
There might've been a handful every year however that fit perfectly into the category of PTSD and never spoke about it or when they did were just a crazy person.
Nice observation about the myth of Hercules.
@@dontcare9462 10 battles a year what a busy army
@@dontcare9462 1 MAN 100 PEOPLE? stfu
@@stahleis Yeah, even a highly experienced soldier always in the thick of battle is unlikely to have killed more than a score of people in their entite career. Can't fault OP for his ignorance, though.
"The Odyssey" by Homer literally is the description of a returning Greek veteran with PTSD.
This! I wrote a thesis just on this!
@@alanspaulding8283
Hey dude, could you share or e-mail your thesis to me? I’m very interested on this subject and I’d love to see what others have written about it!
@@alanspaulding8283 could u also share the thesis with me? U never expected people to be interested in it hahaa
@@alanspaulding8283 yes, please share it with us if you can
@@alanspaulding8283 I would also like to read your thesis.
Actually, Euripides wrote about what we now call PTSD in his play "Ajax" in the Fifth Century B.C.
Next to Achilles, Ajax (The "Telamonian" - the archaic, pre-classical name for the island of Salamis) was the greatest Greek warrior during the so-called Trojan War. After the Greek victory, he began to have nightmares where he believed that vast numbers of the enemy were bearing down upon him and, in one such episode, slew a flock of sheep believing they were enemy soldiers. So embarrassed and distraught was he when he awakened from his nightmare, that he fell upon his sword and killed himself. Probably the first recorded PTSD warrior suicide.
That’s clearly a story idiot, there’s no such thing as ptsd for people of that time period. Killing was something normal thought from early age, you have to be mentally insufficient to believe in it.
Ajax actually slew his companions believing they were a flock of sheep. The most probable explanation is manic depression
@@iasonprifti3899 How does this relate to bipolar disorder?
@@BattistaInvicta it doesn't relate at all. Bipolar is a mood disorder, possibly caused by chenical imbalance in the brain. It can be treated by medication like SSRI's. PTSD is a reaction to mental trauma and is most closely related to personality disorders. It can be treated with traditional psychotherapy, though there is growing research showing psychotropic drugs may be a useful addition to therapy.
@@iasonprifti3899 wrong
Giant war elephants turning your friend into a pancake shoud do the trick.
Jasson Reyes are u talking about the theban sacred band
@@thomasbrady3827 I think he is. Its the only one I know of with that rumor behind it. Or truth. Idk
@Jasson Reyes that's the sacred band of Thebes, and I thought it had been called out as fake rumors spread by the Athenians
@@Johnny12575 people like to make gay headcanons of everything. Like people from victorian eras or war being close to each other is immediately gay. They were brotherly but not to the modern notion of gay and gay sex. Its annoying how they disregard context like that. Especially in the sense of submissive and weak
@@ceroew4239 it's all about context. In ancient Greece, the Sacred Band of Thebes was not an army. But a unit, composed of 150 pairs of men. One older, veteran warrior, the "erastis" who acted, and one younger, the "eromenos".
"Erastis" and "eromenos", in modern English can be translated in a single word as "lover", which easily causes this misconception. "Erastis" is actually the one who loves, and "eromenos" is the one who is loved, but not in the sense of sexual love. The Erastis was the teacher, who loved and treated the eromenos as his own son, and the eromenos was like a disciple, the student of the erastis.
The misconception of gay acts in the Sacred Band begun somewhere in the 1960s, but if you study several historical scripts that refer to the Sacred Band of Thebes, never is it mentioned, with any form of certainty, that those 300 men had any sort of sexual relationship. Some historians only mention specific rumors spread out by the Athenians about Thebes due to a mutually negative atmosphere between the two cities, something they'd consider "slander" back then.
Look, I'm not against gay people or anything, because I'm sure someone may hurry to say something like that, that I'm being subjective and trying to alter history. History is history. People want to believe that ancient Greeks were pro gay and stuff, but the truth is they weren't.
The Athenians considered gays to be unnatural. The Athenian politician Solon, who wrote the most famous Athenian Laws of Solon, wrote laws that said that: if a citizen was gay, they'd lose all their rights as a citizen, and in cases where a gay wouldn't comply to the law and "stop being gay", they could even end up being exiled away from Athens. And remember, the Athenians were considered to be the most "civilized" towards those people when it came to dealing with them, you can imagine what it was like in Sparta for example.
That alone must make some people realize that, unlike what it's being said today, homosexuality was definitely not something widespread or even approved of in ancient Greece. If you were gay in ancient Greece, you could easily end up in exile far away from home, or in harsh cases even worse dead, for your sexual preferences.
When it came to dealing with gays, the ancient greeks would make the most intense conservatives of Mississippi look like softies.
I'm a Navy Veteran with 2 suicide attempts due to my PTSD. Thanks to adventure and wilderness therapy I was able to manage it more successfully as time past, due to getting outside and finding a new sense of self. PTSD took over my life, and at times it still does. There's no cure, but there is management. Take care of yourself, and seek help if you need it. You're Not Alone.
The community is lucky to have you!! 👏👏
@@feefee6889 hey thanks you’re awesome for saying that
@@epycadventures we need people like you! You’re so important for everyone 👏🙏🏻
Much respect sir!
@@runningthor1999 cheers friend
Short anwser: yes
Long anwser: YEEEEESSSSSSSSS
ROMA INVICI!
Incredibilis
It says a lot about Spartan society and warfare that a way for some to cope with potential PTSD and the stress of war was by waging more war
They waged continual war on their healots
Hair of the dog, I guess
"Waging more war" isn't specific enough. Waging more war wouldn't help if you lost, your comerades died, and you got your butt kicked. If you went in and kicked the enemies butt, saved your comerades, and everyone was fine (on your side), then it might help.
And giving their children PTSD from the start. You can't get PTSD if you already had it!
As someone who had PTSD, I'd offer it was because combat was the place they most felt at home. Being a civilian becomes too difficult to contend with-everything seems phony and shallow and layered under unnecessary BS while you walk around half-expecting the facade of civility to crumble at any time, but it doesn't (Except for when it does and guess who's ready!). You feel alienated because the few people you trust don't understand this kind of overactive ennui mixed with suspicion. This also leads to difficulties with the civilian environment and its people because you're always ready to go full on attack, which can lead to extreme overreactions (either externalized or internalized) that scare the shit out of the normals or else you hold it in and that can lead to other problems without learning or developing healthy coping skills. But in violent situations, the reactions lead by the circuits of the rewired brain are entirely appropriate. For all the chaos and horror of war, there's a kind of simplicity and honesty that can be missed. This isn't the same for everyone with PTSD, but that's how I interpret the story of this Spartan through the lens of how my own PTSD manifested. I agree that it says a lot about Spartan society in that, being so focused on warfare, it's almost as if it was largely set up for and by people with PTSD (which is probably close to the truth) and to prime people who aren't prone to develop PTSD for function in that environment.
If an alligator in the Berlin zoo during ww2 can get ptsd, then I'm sure ancient soldiers did too
Man of culture I see. =)
Was the Alligator enclosure next to the elephants or something?
Haha somebodies been watching Mark Felton
Really ? Explain please
@@maximederak Said alligator was in Berlin zoo during WW2, and survived Allied air raids and Battle of Berlin. It was taken to Moscow zoo. When in early -93 there was coup attempt against Jeltsin, tanks rumbled by the zoo, and shot the Parliament. Caretaker said alligator made distressed noises, like it was reminded of Berlin.
He, Saturn died 22.5.2020, aged 84. Almost double normal lifespan of alligator.
Edit: Few fixes to info and dates.
PTSD, anxiety, and depression have always existed. We just have names for them now.
I dont think it was common back in the days, now everyone is depressed
@@gamingthisera6339 it's just more widely expressed and talked about now, where as before it wasn't
@@gamingthisera6339 idk i thought everyone was depressed so extreme depression and ptsd was just seen as being "sad"
@@gamingthisera6339 it’s trendy now lmao
Thought your comment said, "we just have memes for them now." and now I feel like kinda a bad person idk
Next: Did ancient marines also eat crayons.
Coloring sticks*
@@crimsonhawk4912 crunchy, colorful treats*
Ink?
They drank paints.
arya31ful eka
Lead based paints. It’s why they were so aggressive.
TIBERIUS THE GAULS ARE BEHIND THE TREES!
It's all bread and circuses until the trees starts speaking Germanic.
Calm yourself Marius, it's just Quintus playing with his toy sword.
It would make more sense about the romans vs the germans, but teutenburg forest had few if any survivors.
*strumming Fortunate Son on lyre*
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 there were a few survivors, thats how we have the commentary on the disaster. I think they were mostly cavalry, the ones that weren't Germanic traitors of course.
There is something very important: The term used before the Viet Nam war for combat stress or ptsd then -- was DELIBERATELY removed from the DSM. As a result, Viet Nam vets could NOT be diagnosed. No diagnoses means -- no payment or medical coverage. No one talks about this. This is partly why returning Viet Nam vets could not get the help they needed. There was no diagnoses basis per the DSM
Battle fatigue is another name used as well.
@@AngloImperial I'm just adding another name that was used to describe PTSD before/during the Vietnam conflict.
As a non American, Man, your Vietnam war sounds more and more fucked up. And my country was a puppet country of USA during cold war
Fun fact: many disorders in the DSM are only described so a prescription can be made. They aren't "actual" illnesses.
I mentioned how I wrote a paper about this a few months ago and how this guy talks about almost everything I did, he however didn't have an exact take on it as I did. My conclusion was that "Personally, while I strongly disagree with the wars the US has undertaken, I say without a doubt in my mind that those who truly fought with death need to be admired, integrated into society, and financially supported."
I think it's a shame that modern soldiers don't get the spoils of war as in other times soldiers were given wealth. Now only the rich get richer with their own private slave army.
PTSD was known to the vikings - they called it the 'foot terror'
why did they call it that?
@@jamiel6005 because it gives you foot terror? Duh
Because the fear follows you/walks with you.
Interesting
Cuz If you don’t wash ur feet then the smell terrorizes everyone
Grandson: Grandfather, what was it like when you served as Centurion during the wars in Germania.
Grandfather: *(FlashBack to Barbarians Slaughter legionnaires)* You will know soon my child. When its your turn too enlist in the legions.
I don't think barely anyone would live long enough in that period to become a grandfather, let alone a grandfather to a child who is old enough to talk.
@@davecullins1606 You would be wrong to think that. People had children at a fairly young age and could very well live to age 60 and older. The often mentioned life expectancies or 30-40 in ancient times only hold true if you consider that a LOT of people died during very early childhood. Once they were ~6 years old, they could expect to live a fairly long life.
@@Saufs0ldat Ahh. So their grandfather is like 40 - 45 at this point.
@Ahmed El-Mhemadawi Ali is savage.
@Ahmed El-Mhemadawi Ali is savage because he'a ruthless enough to beat the shit out of a 97 year old.
Thanks for the story though. It sounds like something out of 3 Kingdoms novel. Awesome.
Next up: Were ancient soldiers human or were they rocks?
ROCKS! It only makes logical sense, obviously...
Hahaha
Why do we have statues then, huh? /s
Nice 😂😂😂
Did ancient humans exist at all? 8OOO
It bewilders me that some of the comments are already dismissing the entire video and dismissing the spectrum of PTSD. Tbh, it’s sad that people genuinely can’t seem to grasp that these ancient humans were HUMAN.
I’m glad it’s being talked about and understood more.
I imagine medieval PTSD would have been like so:
Blacksmith: *forging weapon* Da da da da dee dee dee....
Grandpa: *hears the sounds of metal hitting metal*
Grandpa: *thinks of swords clashing*
Grandpa: FORM SHIELDWALL! IT'S AN AMBUSH!
There is evidence to support that PTSD is most often related to an event of self-perceived powerlessness, often prolonged. One is more likely to develop PTSD when they experience a terrible event in which they were powerless to affect the situation as opposed to standing a fighting chance. For example: the difference between being an active aggressor fighting your equal vs. experiencing the feeling of being hunted with no way of defending yourself or having been useless to save a friend or loved one. Or the difference between being a passenger on a crashing plane vs. a pilot fighting to save their plane.
i dont think it has to be a physical threat, i think prolonged emotional trauma can do it too
@@soodanoon4813 it can. Im physically a strong individual who thrived in violent situations.
But emotional manipulation and abuse from the ones I loved and then a month in which several friends killed themselves made me snap.
Was diagnosed with ptsd 6 months ago. After 3 years of therapy
Wow, interesting. It makes sense, many soldiers (modern or ancient) were struck by fear, shock and that sensation of powerlessness, seeing how they friends died by their side while they couldn't do anything. It was probably terrifying
I worked in a slaughterhouse, PTSD in those places is off the chain, though it's not officially accepted so trying to get a diagnosis is impossible. We didn't get any kind of support from the company, no staff welfare either.
Decapitating 1000 animals a day, killing day old bobby calves, gutting dry dairy cows only to find they're in calf, or watching them abort on the killing floor, killing 10 week old lamb. Running for your life when a 1 tonne steer gets up off the floor in a rage after a failed stunned. Plus MANY more violent and disturbing things I don't even want to talk about. It all takes It toll.
@@vitallink4830 Fuck mate that sounds shit.
Have you got anyone that is or has been in the same job to talk to?
Iv got my mum an ex trained Nurse herself and my colleagues/work mates so just a thought.
Though we are also offered staff counselling at the hospital.
You gotta find your own healthy way to cope, I talk to to my mum as a debrief after work and did go airsofting (abit like paintball) before the pandemic as a release.
Sometimes its good to just scream and cry aswell.
I've experienced a terrorist attack and didn't think much of it at the time. However, as time moved on, I've grown more uncomfortable in settings similar to the incident or to sights and sounds and smells that I experienced on that day. I do not claim I have PTSD, but permanent psychological damage can linger and take hold over time as you slowly process the information and realise your own state of vulnerability. I truly understand why war can be described as "Hell on Earth" by veterans or why victims of trauma really never can shake off their experience.
Really, it's a nature part of being human. If you're getting into a situation that closely mirrors the one that the trauma happened in, your brain is automatically going to prepare you in case that event happens again since we're hardwired to recognize patterns.
@pyropulse Enjoying it can also be a symptom of PTSD as odd as that sounds. But it's fairly common for survivors to try to seek out similar situations to gain a sense of control. This can be both good and bad, sometimes it can be a form of self harm where you intentionally trigger flashbacks and distress which only hurt you, sometimes literally as physical pain can in fact be triggered by PTSD though that is more common in C-PTSD, other times however it can be a healthy outlet, if you can find a situation which is similar but harmless it can be a safe way to deal with feelings that could otherwise hurt you. It can also happen because a situation can be both psychologically traumatic but physically pleasurable, sexual assault is the obvious one since we have no control over whether we orgasm or not but in all traumatic situations you're also likely to experience an adrenaline boost, which is a high that does feel good in some way just like anything else. It might lead to you having conflicting feelings where the memory of the event will make you cry but it's also exhilarating. It's especially common in survivors of childhood sexual abuse since they obviously have no prior non-traumatic experience of sex and as such this is the only form of sex they're familiar so they might seek it out because of that, even if they're consciously aware what sex is supposed to be like it wont truly register before they experience actual consensual sex. Trauma at a young age can also change the neurology of your brain, and really young age can mean anytime before you're fully grown up which only truly happens when you're around 25 so this includes young recruits, it can result in the pathways that give you rewards being weakened and as such you might not feel all that much from things that usually make people happy and instead the pathways for fear and danger can be reinforced making those feelings a lot easier to feel and more common. This can also result in repetition since that might be your only way of really feeling anything and as anyone with depression can tell you, even feeling bad feelings is better than feeling nothing.
All in all repetition is a fairly common behavior in traumatized people and whether it's good or bad is really up to the individual and it can also change over time, a coping mechanism (things you do to function as a human) can start out being helpful but become maladaptive over time and hurt you but you can also find a healthy outlet for something that used to hurt you.
It's worth mentioning that PTSD is far from the only disorder caused by trauma, Anxiety, Depression, OCD, Borderline Personality Disorder, Complex PTSD, Dissociative Disorders, Bipolar Disorder (both type 1 and 2) and a lot more can all be caused by trauma. PTSD is just one diagnosis, which probably due to it's name has received the most attention but reactions to trauma can manifest themselves in many ways and all of them should be taken just as seriously. I think it'd be worth it for you to talk with a professional about it because you've already noticed these behaviors in yourself and you can probably start to reign them in before they get worse, in general with mental illnesses it's always true that the earlier you do something about it the less serious it'll get.
@@hedgehog3180 No no no! Don't you get it?! Pyropulse is the BADDEST ASS HUMAN TO EVER WALK THE EARTH! Once, when he was a teenager, someone pointed a gun at him! His friend cowered but pyropulse VALIANTLY laughed it off! This was his VERY FIRST EXPERIENCE WITH VIOLENCE NONETHELESS! Since then, his life has been like the Highlander! Just looking for violence everywhere he goes to set things straight because HE isn't scared of being murdered like the rest of us pansies! He didn't even need to pass BUDS or any similar grueling test, he taught himself in his parents backyard with no prior violent experiences, how to be such a badass! Pyropulse is a National hero and should be regarded as such!
My suspicion is that PTSD is actually a few different things or has subtypes
“Did Ancient Soldiers get PTSD” Augustus: Is Varus a joke to you?
If only varus gave back his legion
Armenius:splish splash off with your legions head
German speaking trees: yes he is
Where’s my centurions?!?!
GIVE ME BACK MY LEGIONS!
“War doesn’t ennoble men, it poisons the soul” -Terrence Malick
PTSD is rarely looked at in our cultural and sometimes I wondered if my father has it, he lost both his parent during a civil war (which is ongoing) and joined the KNU (a group of resistance that fought back the Burmese invaders) gorilla army at the age of 13 and was exposed to brutality of war very early and his hatred toward the Burmese grew. He retired at 40 in 2008 and brought us to America because he didn’t want me growing up through war and get involved in that lifestyle. Going back to the story... he didn’t leave the army scarless he was shot and wounded 7 different times and one of them was a headshot (which he got very lucky) and what’s even more amazing is that there weren’t medicine like here because in the jungles of Burma/Thailand it was very hard to bring in foreign medicine and let alone have a hospital to tend to your wounds. He rarely talks about what he went through but every time I take him to the hospital his Physician always ask about the scars and his x ray results and he still has fragments of bullets in him which was poorly treated due to lack of medication but he never showed any sign of trauma and he seems to speak fine and his memory is very sharp. Sometimes when he’s on the phone with his buddies and he talk about it here and there but never to us.
Holy shit, hope he had a long life and whatever he’s going through goes away, I can’t imagine being part of an invisible war the world doesn’t care about, being shot over and over, and living in the jungle with no medical care. I have lots of respect for him.
Fun fact:
Some Iraq war veterans who were diagnosed with PTSD, actually were experiencing the effects of brain damage caused from malaria medication they were forced to take that didn’t even fight the strain of malaria in the Middle East
Same with irish soldiers. Theres actually court cases going on atm. Because the officers where given one type of malaria medicine and the enlisted troops another type
Source? Thanks.
Mefloquine and Anthrax vaccines; helluva drug!!!!
@Pasha Staravoitau All over the world Governments experiment on their soldiers. When you sign on the dotted line, they OWN you. Not a joke. US, UK, China, everyone does it with standing soldiers. Conscripts as well (during times like Vietnam in the USA for instance). There is a lot of problems with the concepts around PTSD. For example your average war-torn sub-sahran african child soldier would be rated as certifiable and insane by most western measures, but it's just another day at the office for them. Over all you amygdala decides your responses to threats. If you grow up IN violence your response to it will be "same day, different shit". Western doctors would ascribe you as having PTSD, but that's just normal for you. The larger and more jarring the experience the more "damage" it does to people. Going from peaceful Theme Park of the Western world to war-torn hell, that's going to leave a mark in you psychology but most deeply when you get home after "adjusting" and realize everything you lived before was a lie, a "life on rails" experience in a "theme park" and now everyone is telling you to go back into it like it's not a huge lie, that conflict often eventually leads to many soldiers just killing themselves because they cannot "re-acculturate". To use another analogy, they cannot be "reinserted into the matrix" after having "woken up". For nearly all humans for all of mankind's existence "normal" was akin to Sub-Saharan Africa during a war. The Western First world is largely just a theme park that exists because everyone likes the "disney magic" of it all.
Damn. You really can't win as a soldier.
i have read in an article that the ancient assyrians may "knew" some of the symptoms of ptsd (the were "reports" found about assyrians warlocks who were saying that the saw the ghosts of those who killed, returning to this world to haunt them) or that some of the medieval knights when they heard the sound of clashing metals (from a local smith per say) they would scream and weep. some even hypothesize that the chilvaric code was a short of a warnings or teachings about avoiding crimes, kinda like the anti war movies or better documentaries. there's more example but the are too many and pherhaps doubtfull to some.
Interestingly enough, modern vets of the War on Terror are saying the same thing. Dreams of seeing the people they killed around their bed at night.
I wanted to reply regarding this point in a separate comment, but since you mentioned it, I will do that here: I extremely highly doubt that the cases involving ghosts or similar visions have anything to do with PTSD. In Eastern cultures, the phenomenon/entities called Djinn are well known, and widely believed among millions. It's a cultural thing (so don't attempt to evaluate it with your Western views). Suffice to say, such experiences do happen (personally happened to me) and are not induced by any kind of anxiety or stress, but rather by certain kind of mental state. E.g. heavy metal music like that of Prodigy band or similar are heavily discouraged by many people in East because it's been observed to induce such mental states if you give into certain trance-like state while listening to them. Overall, with this example I just wanted to mention the fact that such states of mind are not induced by stress, but by rather different type of experience. My personal experience wasn't metal-music related, but a friend who went through similar, yet quite different type of it was induced by such music in front of my eyes. Thankfully people around me were quite knowledgeable about such things and they managed to wake the victim up effectively via strong odor (perfume) and taste. Otherwise it is extremely easy to swallow your own tongue and get permanent physiological (and possibly mental) damage.
@@focumQuariumwell, a posible, but not necessarily acurate fact.
Hehe ass
@@focumQuarium Evaluating things that do not exist will not change dependent on the place you're from, European, eastern and western scientists alike will say the same things about djinn.
Using knives and swords is a lot more personal and gory. Slicing someone and watching their guts spill out is a lot different than shooting someone from a distance.
It,s much easier to pull a trigger than kill at close contact; this is a good point against guns; let,s imagine executing prisoners massively with knifes and swords as Islamic state, talibans, boko haram etc
@@sergiofernandez4566 but do islamic state fighters got PTSD?, Cause like they're different from other military personel cause they're fighting for something they believe,they have no remorse to the people they're executing
@@axell1730 Maybe you are right, religious brainwashing can be a high wall against suffering remorse, I Heard somewhere that usually believers were, on average, better soldiers and killers in war, but to what extent?
@Jonathan Joestar Yes, I have heard that too, a kind of anphetamines that has not only a energetic effect but also a "euphoric effect" ( as the blitzkrieg soldiers in world war II), the religion when is fanatical has also this euphorical side. By the way the war has brought lots and lots of addicted to these anphetamines within the refugee camps and all the region.
I think it's worth considering training though as well. In order to fight properly with a sword, you need to be a well trained professional. Armies in the late 1800s and early 20th century had the power of industry and conscription.
Think of the Roman Legions and Greeks etc. I think training your whole life prepares you for those moments - battles that are a day of horror. Then compare and contrast that with the men in WW1, or Vietnam conscripted against their will, given the bare minimum of training and stuck in front line meat grinder battles for weeks at a time - to get a few days rest - and then back in the line. Rinse and repeat for years.
PTSD absolutely has always existed but its now at the forefront of our modern conciousness because of the sheer number of ordinary people that were forced through hell in the last century.
"Uncle, please steady yourself!"
"By Mars, The Alpines and the Mediterranean spoke Phoenicians damn it!!!"
Phoenician*
Phoenicio-punic
@@hoolioh3721 Punic literally means Phoenician.
What is more scary that both Samnites, Gauls, Spanish (I know), Numidians, Punics (and few Greeks) were in Hannibal's army. It's like everyone vs Romans.
@@hannibalburgers477 Phoenicio-Punic-Carthaginian
The mechanisms of PTSD surely would have been quite the same in antiquity as they are today, and my speculation is that it's actually an adaptive behavior to traumatic experiences/dangerous environments. Hypervigilance is an advantage if one is in an environment chock full of predators and enemy tribes, for example, which would enhance an individual's likelihood to survive and produce offspring--there's a pretty obvious Darwinian path for the evolution of PTSD.
That being said, I also believe that PTSD in antiquity tended to be of a less intense variety than we see as the consequence of modern war. Casualty rates for most battles were pretty low, sometimes below 1%, since troops would typically (but not in all cases, as the Peloponnesian War was very bloody) retreat before mass casualties took place. Additionally, the implements of war were of a less destructive and terrifying nature vis-a-vis modernity. World War 1 could be called the first "war of the machines" in which armor, aircraft, and long-range artillery bombardment became the decisive factors in victory, and naturally such force multipliers have devastating effects on infantry. Men were gunned down by machine guns en masse, at constant threat of being obliterated without warning from bombardment by artillery pieces many kilometers away, always under the threat of sniper fire, and so forth. In contrast, antiquity was characterized mainly by hand-to-hand warfare at close range, or archer volleys from limited distance. Though it was always dangerous to be a soldier, one would typically at least see his enemy before he perishes, whereas the modern soldier must constantly be vigilant and cautious, cloaking himself in camouflage--controlling his movements and lying low to the ground--to avoid death from any number of possible approaches.
The modern enemy is unseen, the ancient enemy is seen, and the constant paranoia that a modern soldier must have in such an environment of invisible death surely worsens PTSD because he is already essentially embodying one aspect of it: Hypervigilence. Combined with the true terror with which modern weapons are capable, this is a toxic combination never before seen in history.
Pitched battles were not overly common, but they were often bloody when they occurred. The actual situational awareness of an individual soldier on the line in battle was quite low. This is why most battles ended in routes (fear of the unknown is contagious, as is panic in motion), which were themselves often far more bloody than the battle itself. Surviving any pitched battle (up close and often hand to hand) has to traumatize someone.
Hyper-vigilance is good but not everyone with ptsd has that, I would assume if you were a battle hardened soldier/ warrior or whatever your probably gonna be more vigilant.
But ptsd makes some people break down.
Meh shooting someone at 300 plus yards seems alot less severe that literally impaling a man death was just more common it wasn't a big deal to see a corpse or violence back then we are very sheltered from these things now
Depending on the time and place (as in everything) combat took different forms and grinding 24/7 fighting wasn't unknown. The vast majority of western European mediaeval fighting tended to be raids that could strike out of nowhere at any time leading to hypervigilance and obsessive concerns. In long term bloody conflicts like The Hundred Years Wars people in north eastern French-speaking areas might be in immediate danger for literally months on end. They would hide at night in narrow tunnels dug into banks and hillsides that the soldiers wouldn't venture into.
Yes, modern combat is more intense and destructive but there's other forms of mental pressure. Towns or fortified places under siege might be under combat pressure for years at a time. The warfare might be less refined but so where the methods of mitigation.
@@kevinsaltz7849 The psychological severity of modern combat is that in 99% of cases you literally have no chance to influence the outcome in your favour. In hand to hand combat your instincts will trigger your fight response, that has nothing to trigger if the threat is an artillery shell, a sniper or an air raid, you just die or see your comrades torn to pieces with you having nothing to do about it. And that is a 24/7 threat unlike anything seen in any kind of conflict before.
Generally soldiers / humans can deal with a threat better if they have even just the impression to do something about it.
That said the claim our ancestors were more used to death is on the one hand true, on the other hand there is plenty of indication that it screwed them up the same as us. That is why there are a plentitude of demons and demi gods in Greek mythology specifically about psychological trauma and injury. They just treated it differently aka via religious and spiritual means and considered it an affliction by supernatural forces. You find matching myths in other cultures.
WWI Young soldiers/conscripts: gets shell-shocked
British Officers: off to firin' squad ya go, lad
more like french officer
@@owenbunny4023 everyone really
Yeah but if a officer suffered with shell-shock they would be sent to a rest posting behind the lines !!
Probably saved them a worse fate.
@@pougetguillaume4632 Italian officers were the worst in this regard, especially under general Cadorna, nicknamed “the butcher of Italy”
There’s a framing device I’m aware of for PTSD which is something like “ptsd occurs when your mind encounters something which it can’t reconcile to such an extent that it breaks your values on how the world works, leaving you picking up the pieces”. So, it would follow that if violence was something which a society was far more closer to as a whole, then the rates of PTSD from the form our society is closer to, would also go down. Meaning, that ptsd in the ancient world from warfare may have been lower or less sever. The rates may very well be equal or greater, I am by no means claiming that my above statement is the case, but I think it’s something to consider.
There’s also the interesting trend due to our technology that warfare has become more and more impersonal, by this mean that if you’re in a hoplite phalanx, the threats are clearly visible in front of you, you can see and touch the threat and what you can and cannot do to survive, and even neutralize, is tangibly in your control. But since gunpowder and, especially in the last 150 years, artillery, the threat is something which you have far, far less control over, maybe not even be able see where the threat is coming from, your life is in danger from something you can’t fight - only survive. In my understanding in psychology, being in an immediate survival state for a prolonged span of time, places a heavy toll on the mind.
I’m reminded of “All Quiet o the Western Front”, it’s been a while, but I remember the depiction of stress of trying to survive artillery, because it was a threat which couldn’t be seen, had to be learned quickly, and any mistake resulted in death. But once it was learned, once the threat was reconciled, the stress became more so the physical act of having to do it and be vigilant, rather than anything about the artillery itself. The stress levels went down.
I like this reply. Sure they might have been slicing guts open but they went back to their tight knit community and gutted and cleaned animals. There was still this primal living. Now we have smart phones and words offend people
Actually you bring up a valid point, that may argue against ptsd in prior generations. When shell shocked soldiers came back from World War I, this was a big deal because the trauma they experienced affected their day to day lives, and this was seen as a new thing. If ptsd had been a common occurrence among soldiers before, the change in the soldiers coming back from WWI wouldn't have been so remarkable.
I would argue that ancient warfare was less violent and intensive
I've struggled with PTSD for almost 20 years, I have never been in a warzone, I'm a middle aged woman from a third world country. But your first sentence makes a lot of sense to me. I was born and raised under a brutal right-wing military dictatorship, but, unlike my parents' generation, I wasn't directly affected by it. I was a child and very sheltered despite the horrors. But when I experienced in my early 20's, something that wasn't supposed to happen anymore, because "democracy" and "human rights" supposed to worth something, my view of the world I was living in, the country I was living in, the reality I was living in, shattered and I wasn't able to find peace anymore. I have close family members who are survivors of actual torture during the dictatorship but they somehow managed to overcome it and live a worthy life. My experience was nothing compared to them, but I was the one who got broken.
When you’re hanging out with your uncle Sir Raynault and he suddenly starts yelling about Saracens hiding in the sand
"NEVER TAKE ANOTHER MANS DRINK IN THE DESERT!"
"Sure thing, Uncle ReyRey. Keep your head on."
What is it a reference to?
@@arte0021Second Crusade, Saladin, and the untimely death of one Reynald de Chatillon
@@Mordecai9052 no i meant what movie quote?
@@arte0021 The movie Kingdom of Heaven is where the quote is from as written by Mordecai.
THEY WERE IN THE ELEPHANTS MAN!
SCREECHING WOMEN COVERED IN BLUUUUUUUEEEEE
To see a barbarian pop out of an elephants butt, screeching death threats and flailing his sword around... all ace ventura style.
sauce?
I see...i see them EVERYGODDAMN NIGHT THEY COME I CAN'T SLEEP I FKING SEE THEM.
I would love to see more on this subject.
I've personally found out that it depends a lot on the person, I knew a guy who had served in the French Foreign Legion who would sometimes wake up in the middle of the night and look out the window, one time he even got a knife and we just had to play along and say "we got them, don't worry, it's clear" then take the knife and lead him to bed again. He was in another world. Then I met a tank gunner who was a total bro, except she was a girl and looked like a stereotypical movie "sweetheart", she had no remorse and seemingly no problems from what she had experienced in Afghanistan and I'm not saying she should have, just the contrast. One was clearly hit hard by the war the other made comparisons about hitting terrorists with tank shells when she scored in beer pong.
that would be because she was probably never in danger, the legionary probably got shot at and saw brothers die, she just shot people.
@@napalmsticks6494 people who operate drones from complete safety also suffer from ptsd
@pyropulse That is not where PTSD comes from you're just making it up because you like that explanation better than the actually scientifically supported one. Making up shit to comfort yourself and then talking about it like fact just makes you look like someone who is unable to face the realities of the world and that it is in fact often cruel and seemingly has no reason behind the cruelty.
That's because whether or not you develop PTSD doesn't have much to do with what you experienced but rather what happened afterwards. PTSD can be completely prevented if you get help within a month of the event happening, the tank gunner was obviously part of the crew and they all experienced the same things and after any action would probably spend hours talking about it, this would prevent PTSD from developing. Meanwhile the Legionary could easily not have had the same experience, he wouldn't have had any safe down time to talk about it and due to the nature of the Foreign Legion he probably didn't know any of the other soldiers that well and as such wouldn't have that close a bond with them, he also might have lost some of the friends he could have relied on in combat which would both take away his support network and inflict the trauma or losing a friend. All of this means that he'd be comparably more likely to develop PTSD.
@@hedgehog3180 pyropulse is a NATIONAL HERO! He Once had a gun pointed at him and he wasn't scared! Ask him!
I went to a funeral in kosovo once and the women were wailing and screaming as a way of mourning. I was shocked to the core, and didn't want to get out of the car. Nobody told me that they mourned like that and I was horrified (I'm from England) and stayed a while out of respect but left as soon as I could. A funeral lasts around 10 days there, with all relatives staying in the deceased persons home, women and men separated, with a room where they can sit together. I went back the second day and stayed for the whole funeral with a new perspective. It was a big shock but I wasn't traumatised from it. It is their way to show their most naked, raw form of grief to their loved one which I found quite touching as the days went on.
They cry a lot, but after the deceased is buried..it's over...like non-existent after this 10 days of mourning..also a way to cope..no judgment what is better
Some cultures are expected to publicly mournful, regardless of a tual feelings. Some just the opposite too.
They were the ancient people. Their whole life was PTSD.
That made me laugh out loud.
more like TSD
@@mustysheep3977 or STD
Underrated comment.
Ancient life was not as brutal as we think and the idea that it is has more to do with us modern people wanting to think that our society is better than actual facts about ancient life. The stresses people experienced were the ones humans are well equipped for handling (natural disasters) while they didn't experience much of the ones we're poorly equipped for handling (interpersonal conflict). Modern society is the other way around and that's why PTSD is seemingly so common.
PTSD is just spicy nostalgia
oof
That’s cursed
I do like me some spice. They drafting?
You could describe it as that yeah lol
spicy take
I've always found it fascinating how similar experiences affect people differently. Among the greatest war heroes of Norway was Gunnar "Kjakan" Sønsteby. He was the most highly decorated citizen in Norway, including being the only person to have been awarded the War Cross with three swords, Norway's highest military decoration. He was a resistance fighter in Norway during World War 2, and survived several close calls with the Germans. Despite having been hunted by the Gestapo for most of the war, assassinating several people accused of being informants, and experiencing other wartime horrors, it didn't seem to have affected him much mentally, and he returned to civilian life after the war without much trouble. Max Manus was another war hero and resistance fighter during the war, and was awarded the War Cross with two swords. Unlike Kjakan, Manus suffered from nightmares, alcoholism and bouts of depression after his experiences in the war.
Imagine being on the field of battlefield and you see 30000 people dead, dismembered and disemboweled,you see people shit themselves right before they get beheaded,you hear their screams of pain and agony.No ,ancient soldiers didn't experienced PTSD.
Fucking separate agony and the point before the "no" idiot because it creates a link
@@rommelcandiani6358 did you just call a Full Stop a point while trying to educate someone else?
@@Shaz337 in cellphone writing agony.no creates a link and its very annoying so i am suggesting wrinting "agony. No" (theres a space bweteen the point and "No")
Which ancient battle had 30000 people dead. It was not comon. I think you have wrong impresion of warfare in those times
God the shit would really make me puke but disemboweled people is fine
I've really enjoyed looking at some of the human elements of ancient warfare. If you liked this episode, checkout our recent video on the truth behind the pre-battle speeches given by generals: czcams.com/video/IhnS4VVZHew/video.html
I would also like to see how different cultures approached the issue and if there's anything indicating that culture makes people more or less resilient to trauma.
Whats the movie on the thumbnail (0:42)? Thanks for the great content.
The human side of war is always fascinating, we often only think of historic wars in terms of battles, tactics, the leadership, etc, but none of it would happen without the human beings that were ordered to fight. I'd love to see videos about how the ancient ranks were filled; recruitment, conscription, being impressed, basically what made a person become a soldier, by choice or force. Thank you for making these videos, and thank you for those who can afford to donate!
What you suggested at the end of this video. Sounds really interesting. And I would watch those video's if you made them.
In the ancient books of Israel, even the soldiers were to spend days in the desert to "purify" themselves... I think it is more of composing themselves too before returing to society....
That "lover of war" passage was pretty rad.
Fr sounded pretty hardcore ngl
It sounds rad, but I’m sorry for that guy. He had a problem. I don’t want to call his problem rad because I’m sure if he could, he would have rather had peace in his life.
The true and real life Apollyon... Sad however, legendary in its own right... Some truly aim for war and breath it while others still hope for more. Regardless we are different within and can thrive in our own ways with our own scars to bare.
@@WrathfulShadow69 this guy was named after the destroyer called Apollyon/Abaddon. So he isn’t the original one.
@@JMrealgamer Ohh so there are more. Makes sense. 👍🏼
Thank you for touching on this subject. I have had PTSD for a long time. I often have wondered how ancient people dealt with what seems like an often traumatic existence.
At the end of the day PTSD is a mental defense mechanism against stress.
So yes. Those were very stressful times.
It isn't a defense mechanism against stress.
It is an overstimulation of the fight or flight response that already exists. When you live in dangerous environments, like a war zone, your brain categorizes a bunch of new stimuli as dangerous and your baseline anxiety is raised so you become hypervigilant. When you return from war your baseline anxiety takes a long time to come back down to your previous norm (if it ever does). You are safe at home but your sympathetic nervous system plays by the rules of "better safe than sorry". So any time you encounter stimuli that your sympathetic nervous system has previously established as dangerous it takes over. It's subconscious.
It's not a defense mechanism against stress. It IS stress. Stress that tries to help you survive a danger that you're no longer in.
I would know. I've been seeing counseling for PTSD for years after returning from Afghanistan.
@@aaronaxel4760 Dang. Aight, that's me told.
It’s al fun until the trees start speaking germanic
Or Celtic for that matter
if that happens all you have to do is make your general tell "come back cowards!!!"
@Stesilaus I cannot begin to imagine what these front rank soldiers were thinking as they saw the enemy line coming at them at full charge...if and how they would survive the sudden impact of men and shields. What was it like?
@Stesilaus hopelessness of their situation....2000 years ago.....and hundreds of miles from home. "Varus...where are my legions"?
@@varangiangaming7178 the Celts just got conquered by everyone though, from the Romans then the Germanic people. The Germanic folk at least kept the Romans at bay, and then conquered alot of their former territories
Of course they did. Why wouldn't they? PTSD is a modern label to a human condition. Just because it only recently has been given a label, doesn't mean it didn't exist before.
Exactly
Is like asking if people had depression in the past
Shell shock and other names had defined it in the past. Gone mad has been around for centuries. Lots of opium dens in england during the Victorian era because soldiers and often officers became addicts abroad on campaigns, wounded in battles, or just depression when they got home to a often hard times for most Britains.
@@Ivanmaradonaaa not rly. It could be that becouse of the upbringing that killing somone isnt somthing bad. Forexample Vikings did want to die in battle, and honestly belived that would get them to valhall. And maybe becouse of that they would not be affraid. And therefor not concider war a traumatic event.
Again it isnt, I mean you are correct, but it make sence to question it. :)
Hell even the epic of gilgamesh one of the oldest written sorces talks about how soldiers act diferently than the populaton that has not been to war.
I just can't get enough of these videos! Thank you so much! It really makes me happy to see such, unfortunately often very overlooked topics being adressed :)
Look at Napoleon's lieutenants, a lot of them went nuts although in several cases severe head trauma contributed
"My mother told me, someday I would buy. Galley with good oars, sail to distant shores." - King Harald Finehair
next time quote it correctly, why is there a comma after told me and a period after buy, it makes it incoherent. You damn nut.
@@SNIperofDARKness02 Go cry to your mom if it makes you so upset.
Egil Skallagrimson wrote that poem.
"Stand up on the prowl,noble bark I steer,stay course with the haven,hew may fowmen,hew may fowman.
I would be shocked if they didnt. I understand modern weapons may not be as "natural" as ancient or medieval weapons, but even back then, warfare could get nuts! In short, I would assume they do. Now to see if there are any documented cases as possibly shown in the video...
@Chase Moore do you remember the name of the video?
@Chase Moore The closest thing they would get to the fear of snipers is a few master archers or well aimed crossbows, otherwise you're right, and I WILL check out that video at some point.
@Chase Moore Well rested, really? I'm not disputing it, it's just that watching documentaries on the Roman wars gives the impression the legions were 5% soldiers, 45% engineers, and 50% marathon runners
Chase Moore there have been numerous times where an army’s camp were harassed every night leaving little sleep to the soldiers. Even more so when it comes to the likes of sieges. Maybe the continuous time on the battlefield away from home that many experienced in WW1 and WW2 might have led to a higher likely hood of PTSD.
AndorinhaIberica first of you need to differ between actual combating situation and marches and drills. First of difference between today and than is first of violence was much much more prevalent and common. Heck it was common to commit genocide and outright exterminate tribes. Which does effect completely different way unlike in a society we’re you’re safe, secure and experiencing an overall good life. However direct combative was short and never lasted for days straight nor even near overwhelming as of today. In fact war brakes was very common. The use of firearms change completely the method of warfare but also the mentality.
This was a really great video, thank you. Really appreciated the overview of extracts from past writers, it shows a side of history often unheard of !
I have often wondered about this. I'm not a sufferer myself, but as a vet I have a lot of friends who are. War is part of human nature, as much as our reactions to it. To hear descriptions of symptoms in soldiers from hundreds or thousands of years ago that match the symptoms of my friends today is astonishing and a bit vindicating. Thanks for doing this.
Just look at the eyes of war veterans when they talk about their experiences, and you realise that behind an often wrinkled and calm face lies a terrified man and crushed soul. I've yet to see a man without a certain cold and blank stare.
I know it's somewhat different kind of look, but I immidetely thought of this photo as I read your comment:
warriorgirl3.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/ww2-111.jpg?w=640
@@Vitalis94
This is what immediately came to my mind
i.redd.it/6x1c8u7nwmp21.jpg
Rex Galilae I hate this
The famous 1000 yards stare, or the modern pictures of "soldiers before, during and after"
@pyropulse
lol nerd
This was the best video I've ever watched in this channel. Really great, showing more than just history, but also going deeper in the matter and making clear that this is one view, but the subject isn't closed. Really, really great, congrats!
This was great. I don't see conversations like this often and I appreciate you making this video
Many personal journals also talk about hallucinations caused by trauma. Along with those hallucinations often came loss of interest for social contact, a fear of the dark, frequent panic attacks, insomia and being distressed by the sight of certain colors, objects and so on. They didn't diagnose it, but they did manage to link it to their negative experiences.
Back in the day, when public executions were the norm, many executioners were absolutely traumatized. One of the reason was that many heard their victims last moments, last wills. They would sometimes put their own lives in danger to prevent them from being lynched, only to kill them minutes later. Also, being surrounded by a hostile, potencially violent crowd and living in life-threatening ostracism would emotionally damage even the most harden of individuals.
This is a really fantastic video. A lot of what I've read about Richard the Lionheart indicates that he was probably struggling with PTSD in the last years of his life. What's interesting is that based on the evidence, it seems more likely related to his imprisonment in Germany for a year and a half rather than the combat in which he took part throughout his life, but the primary sources describe a rather distinct shift in personality after he was released from prison, with Richard displaying many of the symptoms of PTSD.
_walks nearby a castle wall guarded by hostile crossbow archers._
plantagenet guy: what could possibly go wrong?!
being locked up in these days wasn't a joy at all. even for upper class/high status persons a really tough and uncertain situation to be in. I read _Ivanhoe_ by walter scott during corona lockdown. I know it's a novel written in the 18th century, but nontheless what was written didn't sound that epic or chivalric to me.
PTSD isn’t so much diagnosed for the event but for the symptoms you experience after.
An event doesn’t have to be life threatening, but it can still cause PTSD (having enough side effects)
Exactly! Without even taking part in the cowardly brutalities of war, one can get seriously messed up just by watching his platoonmates rape and kill civilians at will.
@ i doubt thats a common cause in modern war
It doesn't have to be war. I wouldn't go so far as to say I have PTSD, but i almost died in a car crash a few years ago, but immediately after I felt fine and just went about life. But as time went on I got more and more nervous about driving and getting flashbacks and to this day I still sometimes grip the hell out of the wheel. So I think it's a lot more complicated than something bad happens and suddenly your messed up.
It's a general truth about mental illness that they don't happen but develop. Unlike a physical illness where you might just suddenly get infected and become sick a mental illness develops over time if left in the dark and untreated. That's why mental health awareness is so important because it's literally the best way for preventing mental illness from developing into something actually serious. With PTSD it's also important to remember that many life threatening events actually only rarely lead to PTSD developing while many things that aren't specifically life threatening can lead to PTSD. For example PTSD is exceedingly rare in survivors of natural disasters.
As a former Soldier I found this fascinating. Love the insight into the past. Would love to see another episode on this topic.
“THE PICTS, THEY’RE BEHIND THE WALL!”
-My great-uncle Octain
Also consider the Greek Epic Oddysey where the titular character and his soldiers, immediately after winning the Trojan War, proceeds to pillage random towns on the way back home, Odysseus lies to the soldiers under his command, his men abuse alcohol and drugs, Odysseus picks fights with people for no reason, spends years crying while standing on a beach, and finally upon returning home proceeds to lie to everyone close to him about who he really is, even beyond what one can consider ‘necessary’ for defeating the suitors who invaded his home.
Have you read Odysseus in America? It’s a book that actually makes a point very much like that one, drawing a comparison to PTSD symptoms. Really interesting!
Im sorry, but that doesn't make sense at all. Odyseus doesn't realy pick fights for no reason, the drinking habbits of his soldiers wouldn't have raised any eyebrows back then (when wine was treated like water, the only passage about drugs are the mushrooms, but there is no corrolation between that and PTSD. Also, odyseus doesn't lie excesively when you keep in mind that the suitors where ready to kill his son for no reason and would surely have killed odyseus instantly if they found out.
@@illyrian9976 You clearly need to read the Odyssey again. First, on the way back from Troy, instead of going directly home after being away for 20 years, Odysseus and his men raid various villages, killing, raping and pillaging. His misadventures begin after one such failed raid.
Second, wine was not treated like water. Just because everyone drank wine did not mean drinking to the point of drunkenness was socially acceptable back then. It was not. There are common ancient Greek sayings, like only madmen drink wine undiluted (they mixed wine with water back then for the obvious purpose of reducing its effects), which clearly point to drunkenness being not as accepted as you think. Not to mention, the Greeks' own religion casts sex crazed half goatmen as what drunks are.
After Odysseus returns home and has defeated the suitors, he goes to visit his father who is extremely old and lies about his identity to his own dad for literally no reason whatsoever except to troll him. He also lies to a shepherd after learning the shephard hates the suitors and wishes Odysseus would return. This is called lying excessively.
Your memory sucks, go read the story again.
@@BoxStudioExecutive None of the points prove that the Odysse was written with PTSD in mind. I hate it when modern writters project modern concepts to the ancient world. Drinking wine and pillaging was very much common for soldiers, it makes no sense that this has something to do with PTSD.
@@illyrian9976 you mean you hate it when modern scientists reinterpret history? Ok.
The title should have been "History of PTSD" since it takes 10 minutes to get to "ancient" accounts.
Question marks = $$$
I've been studying a lot about my Clan's extremely tragic history. You can hear the sadness in their writing, stories, and ballads. They were basically in a constant state of warfare. I can't even imagine the suffering.
Good points well made! I especially appreciate you setting the context.
when your whole life is struggle, death and clawing your way to survive, going to war isnt that big a deal i would guess. the more civilized we have become, the further from death we move, war and peace are so far removed from each other in the modern world that we are ill prepaird for conflict that would have been common place in the past.
So while i am sure there was some PTSD in the past, i think people were more accustomed to it then now due to us being so far from it normally.
Some truth but there was less wars in the mediveal Europe then in the modern world of the past 200 or 300 years, even the past 100 years we have more wars then the medieval Europe. Hell, in fact the United States of America has been in more wars then the British or Spanish Empires.
Yeah, I am real grateful for all the modern techs and infrastructures that makes me a "softie" compared to all the past generations without it. I mean just tuberculosis specifically affected so many in most parts of the world until the discovery of a vaccine. And infant mortality. Death was so much more an every day part of life.
Not completely true. People back then led much calmer and anxiety-less lives than your modern 9 to 5 bill payer does. Of course there were things like the plague or an invasion which eventually happened but the usual wasn't the blood bath you might think. Warfare has always been and will always be one of the most traumatic things a person can go through.
@@JC-fy8wh Yep & look were the softness has taking our civilization too.
Doesn't this look familiar in what's been going on the past 15-35 yrars?
czcams.com/video/0Z760XNy4VM/video.html
As Marcus Aurelius said the biggest threat to the Roman Empire is luxury and comfort.
@@JC-fy8wh As Parsya also said people back then lived life with way less stress, even mediveal peasants worked less then your average modern American & kept more of his or her's earnings too. Women where feminine & men were masculine & people wanted to get married & have kids & live life this was more true back then then today.
They also had a much tighter community were people often helped each other much more & people in European society had higher trust levels to their fellow countrymen with way less crime.
We also have more war & much more crime in modern times.
czcams.com/video/Cqzq01i2O3U/video.html
Modern society sucks really lol. No culture, God is "dead", boys shouldn't be boys, women cheat on you if you go to war, a huge population of sluts in big cities, lots of wars we get into, people hardly know their own neighbors, high crime in diverse communities, trust is going down hill, politicians care less about their own people than kings & lords do, and so on. I'll take mediveal Europe any day then this sh*t.
Clicked like cause I know it’s gonna be good. Back in the day folks were eye to eye with their would be murderers. Sure as heck they had ptsd
Idk whats worse though: actually seeing your enemy face to face or have the constant fear of dying from nowhere (snipers, RPG, landmines, etc.)
dragozal thats actually bin many times interviewed and studied between ww2 veterans and current veterans like afghan and Iraq. Interesting enough veterans from ww2 thinks that today’s war age is worse in experience than what they experience mainly because two main factors. 1 ww2 to them was much more personal and had an actual cause towards it. 2 it was much more up close and not near as overwhelming as of today’s war. Rarely today combatant ever face up personal combat experience and those few who has says it’s much more different. It’s easier to react and grasp a situation close range than a situation from afar or the unknown
That is actually easier to live with, since societies saw this as normal and you might have trained it all your life. Depending on your culture, the guy who died to you probably entered his "heaven". It is way harder to live with a constant possibility of getting shot in the back from 2 kms away, dronestriked, bombed, shelled, blown up by hidden IEDs etc. and there is nothing you can do. Not having control over your life is a major factor for PTSD. As long as you can fight in melee against an enemy, you are in control. Also back then due to the short range of attacks, you normally knew when the fighting starts, and after some hours nax it would end. Even a surprise cavallery charge was normally something you saw at least comming for some seconds before they crush into your lines. You would go back to your camp or flee and regroup somewhere else, and you knew the fighting for today was over. No artillery or planes bombing your tent, no sniper shooting you when you piss at a tree, nobody is circling above your head watching you with a drone.
@@amedicabg Id say that bough have their good and bad sides. Today death would likely come for your quicker making it less painless so less to fear, tho needing to go face to face in close combat ment you had no need to frear when no enemy was near.
"Would be murderers" uh no they wouldn't be murdering you. Killing someone in war who is trying to kill you is not murder. Killing your neighbor out of the blue is murder.
WW1 must have been so sad. Sitting in trenches for years. Horrible things we did to each other.
I agree. People are generally horrible to one another.
the segment at 9:25 and at the end are what mark this video as true quality. excellent work, as always. also, i would absolutely live to see the videos about what a medieval knight or roman soldier would consider traumatic.
Thanks for doing a vid on PTSD. I have it from my service, and sometimes, it affects me in the strangest ways.
i had (heard from) a RMC (CDN royal military college) professor mention more than once that Hebrew Men (ancient times - moses' time and under other Hebrew leaders) that fought would spend up to or a minimum of 7 days outside of the village this would be the first time i had heard of handling PTSD even though Hebrews had no name for the PTSD at the time //
i cant recall if the Levites that were used in Exodus 32:27, would also get the same 7 days ish off to not be in camp while handling the internal torment being apart of a friendly fire action is a mental as much as a physical challenge then add the after math of headaches // thanks for the upload God Bless, be safe during the Purge of 2020
Thank you! Glad someone else brought this up in a comment.
@@JamesRDavenport no worries,... too bad the Pentagon does not use the same Faith Filled Tactic.. // after all how can any man (they were all men doing the killing, no Joan of Arcs in Hebrew history) go all Col Kurtz and not need seven Long winded out of town days off from looking at any one?/ and if the Man survived that week.. the TSD may indeed be Post // God Bless, be safe and if U get a headache first determine what part of the skull its at.. if at the back of the head, danger but if inside and all around.. could be Major Karma need to grab salt and white candles and pray for all that have been trespassed be off and await later on to pass grief upon.... /
too many Mates did not know not to trust the GWBush baby, cocaine user, with their lives and without armor on the invading Humvees over 1100+ died just to that dumb mistake right out of the Gate../
Praying to end the headaches has not been proven.. too many variables as to why the aches might Well come..
so May Peace be in your Mind, and stay inside there are more dead on USA soil now than due to the wars of the last fifty +++ years.. // Be well
This is one of the best videos you’ve put out in a minute. More please!
This episode is so powerful, especially the closing part. I'd love to see a video on the topic regarding cultural differences' effect on trauma.
I remember reading some primary sources from the crusades period written by nurses. A lot of the knights who they cared for would have night terrors and panic attacks. In ancient/medieval sources, they tend to just throw around the term "battle fatigue" which lumps PTSD in with other trauma as well as literal fatigue.
Shakespeare has a character describe what sounds like lingering war trauma in her husband.
“O my good lord, why are you thus alone?
For what offense have I this fortnight been
A banished woman from my Harry’s bed?
Tell me, sweet lord, what is ‘t that takes from thee
Thy stomach, pleasure, and thy golden sleep?
Why dost thou bend thine eyes upon the earth,
And start so often when thou sit’st alone?
Why hast thou lost the fresh blood in thy cheeks
And given my treasures and my rights of thee
To thick-eyed musing and curst melancholy?
In thy faint slumbers I by thee have watched,
And heard thee murmur tales of iron wars,
Speak terms of manage to thy bounding steed,
Cry “Courage! To the field!” And thou hast talk’d
Of sallies and retires, of trenches, tents,
Of palisadoes, frontiers, parapets,
Of basilisks, of cannon, culverin,
Of prisoners’ ransom and of soldiers slain,
And all the currents of a heady fight.
Thy spirit within thee hath been so at war
And thus hath so bestirred thee in thy sleep,
That beads of sweat have stood upon thy brow
Like bubbles in a late-disturbèd stream;
And in thy face strange motions have appeared,
Such as we see when men restrain their breath
On some great sudden hest. O, what portents are these?
Some heavy business hath my lord in hand,
And I must know it, else he loves me not.”
I posted about Banquo's ghost and Lady Macbeth
This was a super fascinating watch, hope you dig into this more
Thank you for researching and presenting this video. It is greatly appreciated and promotes serious thought on the subject, only speaking from my own perspective. It would be marvelous for you to continue your informative exploration into this subject and present it as you have in a well designed format. Thank you again.
Channel: does a video including mental illness
Comments: let me bust out my crayon doodle psychology degree I got from Google and flex
Dirigo flat earthers maybe too
At least it'll hopefully be a teachable moment for some people, even if people on the internet usually prefer to cover their ears and scream that they're right no matter what.
hedgehog3180 cheers to that
The dunning-kruger effect in action
@@Herminipper Happens basically everyday, all around you, irl or not.
There’s records of ancient soldiers coming home with traumatic blindness from war.
You handled this very difficult topic extremely well. Thank you.
Looking forward to part two!
Very interesting, indeed. I'm specially interested in the last part, what's normal to some and could shock others? Cultural differences through time
Appertly my grandfather had ptsd so when he would go into it I being the kid I was thought we were playing so I would scream about what we should do because I thought we were playing. I guess that somehow always snapped him out of it and he would smile at me and we would play. So I accidentally helped my grandpa cope with PTSD.
That idea for a video of societal norms and its affects on combat, performance, and historical importance would be an amazing video. I hope you do it. Might be the best video on youtube if you pull it off. Looking forward to it.
Hey, thank you so much. I'm a warrior from ancient times and I still get flashbacks of those cannonballs.. those damn cannonballs..
Short Answer: yes.
Long Answer: watch the video.
As a Veteran, this is probably one of the best explanations of PTSD i have ever heard. Excellent and informative video thank you.
Doesn't include the other sources of PTSD however. Only includes events that cause physical violence, and possibly life threatening situations. Doesn't include any mental sources that may result from it. Mental torture comes to mind.
Immerayon very true, Still an interesting video
@@jamesosborne7007 Indeed. Suffering is apart of the human condition as he brought up. As our minds become too heavy with the burden of our past traumas, the body will have to carry the extra load. It's unfortunate.
Immerayon Very true, I just found this explanation at the start of the video really simple to Understand.
This was outstanding. Easily one of your best. Thank you.
Yooo!!! I always wondered this. Thank you for this video.
I have lived with PTSD for the past thirty years, but I've always thought that had I been born in a farm where they killed animals for food or for other things, that I would not be this messes up.
Modern lifestyle does not prepare people
I lived on a farm and hunted before I enlisted, friend. Would it have helped? Maybe. Would it have made you an emotionless machine? No.
@@fullfist i don't think anything really prepares people tbh. I think PTSD is literally just a maladaptive trait your brain develops to extreme stress. Some people don't get it, others can get it shockingly easily.
A lot of people interpret Thucydides to have had PTSD from the Peloponnesian war and the plague of Athens
I've PTSD and I appreciate this video! PTSD has been around for a long time! especially in the ancient world! It's a problem that I've dealt with as a young adult! Luckily we live in an age that has so much research like EMDR, CBT, etc. Thank you, Invicta for this video it brings to light what our ancestors had to deal with all those years ago...
Yeah, I've seem some comments in this video telling how most people in the past would've been fine with it because of the values of those old cultures, and while that may be the case for some of those ancient soldiers, probably a ton more of them had some sort of PTSD, from an Aztec hearing and seeing the results of a gunshot for the first time, to even the spanish conquistador that fired that same gun being exposed to the brutality of hand to hand combat for the first time. And that's not even taking into consideration the citizens who had their farms, the place where they grew and sustained their whole lives, burned down in front of them
@@renatob6123 Yes I agree a different time and I couldn't imagine what they had felt back then...
Invicta, thanks for another great video. I lived for years with a person who had PTSD, which for a long time I did not understand, and I can only attest to the truthfulness of the content you presented.
In terms of history - reading that quote from the Spartan commander in the video, it got me thinking: how viable do you think it would be to argue that Alexander the Great was suffering from PTSD?
Sure cutting and beating people to death, even for people that saw death everyday, had to be high. Even Alexander knew the best troops were guys that had been in some battles but after a certain amount of battles that sometimes lasted all day for days. Soldiers started to lose there zeal for fighting.
@pyropulse
you should filter yourself
@pyropulse I think it should be the other way around. Those with PTSD are less likely to enter another battlefield hence their survival chances are much higher compared to skilled warriors. Also considering that most of combat is/was done in groups so scaling walls, being showered with arrows, being attacked by more than one opponent at once if your rank mate falls etc. mean that often personal skill had little affect on survival chances. The point is PTSD can be considered survival mechanic to avoid such situations. War beasts who enjoy war are never liked after a war after all.
“Lose their zeal for fighting.” - Sounds a lot like the Germans on the Eastern Front in WW2. At first they got quite high on killing dozens of Russians as they rushed at their machine guns, but then they kept on coming, in the same old way. And then the next day the same. And the next. Before long they were quite disgusted by it all. The utter waste. In the end it was shortage of ammo that forced a retreat - “We ran out of ammo before they ran out of bodies to throw at us.”
It’s quite a well known fact in military science that soldiers grow weary of killing, so much so that it affects their efficiency in battle. I can’t recall the precise figures but scientists determined men were at their best at the front from the third or fourth day until something like the thirtieth, but declined thereafter. Also they discovered that moderately experienced soldiers were better in pro-active fighting than hardened veterans, though the latter were better at surviving battle.
@@sirrathersplendid4825 classic wehrboo nonsense
This is one of the most impressive presentations that I have had the honor of receiving via CZcams. Thank you so much. In Indiana, we are not yet required to provide pro bono legal representation. This has swayed me to immediately offer my 25 years of experience exclusively to US Veterans through our local Veteran Courts. Again, thank you for this eye opening presentation.
Very interesting. Keep up the good work 👏.
Excellent job, well done.
What the Assyrian quote identified sounds exactly like waking up while still under sleep paralysis, which isn't exclusively caused by PTSD. A person experiencing this can still be more or less in a dream state, which can cause hallucinations. Also (and I speak from personal experience here), waking up and suddenly realizing that you can't move is terrifying in and of itself, and can definitely cause one to attempt to cry out for help. But, being still under full or partial sleep paralysis, the cry is often silent or slurred.
Caesar: " I hear the gauls! They are in the trees, form the legions!"
*Caesar entering Senate forum*
Caesar let the Gauls into the Senate. He played himself.
Great video. Many thanks!
Was a documentary really needed to answer this
While not exactly related to the topic, there was a short exchange in the confines of The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim, in which an Imperial soldier starts to come to grips with PTSD-like symptoms following a brutal battle. When he asks if this is normal, the player can respond with: “Only a monster kills without feeling.”
Thanks for sharing
@Rolling Stone : Correct