I need therapy after *WHIPLASH*
Vložit
- čas přidán 8. 04. 2024
- Thanks for watching!
PATREON: / nataliegold
OTHER CHANNEL: / nattiegold
INSTA: @nattiegold - nattiegold...
TWITTER: @natstaygolden - / natstaygolden
TIKTOK: www.tiktok.com/@natalie_gold?...
MERCH: crowdmade.com/collections/nat...
This video was edited by Cameron Marek: / cameronmarek
GEAR I USE:
(As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases from using the links below.)
Sony A6000: amzn.to/3g7LDKU
Sigma 24mm Lens: amzn.to/3CXz51K
HyperX Cloud Flight S Wireless Headset: amzn.to/3SVO9SS
RODE Microphone
Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen USB Audio Interface: amzn.to/3TfJjAh
Tripod: amzn.to/3yci4yH
LED Lighting Kit: amzn.to/3y8jrOU
LED Color Changing Light Bulb: amzn.to/3LK3r9F
Original Movie: Whiplash - Zábava
What an absolute powerful performance by J.K. Simmons. Definitely deserved the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor.
He has a music degree from the University of Montana :)
J. K. Simmons was so terrifying in this role. It's truly one of the best Oscar wins of the past 20 years imo.
Bwahahahaha! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
… you serious?
As much as I love his performance, I personally feel that Ethan Hawke in BOYHOOD deserved to at least tie with him. His story arc in the movie incredible to be honest, and the fact that the movie was actually shot over 12 years actually helped here.
Especially when he was playing main character.
J.K. Simmons has some serious range. His character is incredibly intimidating but also electrifying
I didn't realize it was him at first in Baldurs Gate 3, he f'n nailed that role too
crazy how he can go to beeing one of the most despicable characters ever to the most lovable person ever
Why didn’t yell for more pictures of spider-man?
At the end, Neimann has basically turned into Fletcher.
@@Renoistic No, Neiman has turned into a Charlie Parker calibre of virtuoso. Fletcher is Jo Jones.
Fun fact: in the "rushing or dragging" scene, Neiman was actually on tempo, J.K. Simmons applied the same tactic he used with the trombone player.
Gaslightiiiiing
Oh dang I didn’t catch that 😮
No he wasn't. He was definitely rushing.
@@jasminmujezinovic324he was on tempo before, but fletcher telling him he was dragging a little or rushing a little pressured him into actually being off.
@@jasminmujezinovic324not quite my tempo
As a matter of fact, the film was made on a shoestring budget in 19 days, and the director Damien Chazelle even suffered a concussion due to car accident at the time of filming, but nevertheless managed to get the movie done on time.
Are you serious? This is like one of the best films I've ever seen
i bet that's why Neiman met with a car crash stopping his debut.
@@Mark_yet_again The script was finalized months earlier so I doubt that they're actually connected
19 days is fucking bonkers for a movie this dense. If you've ever done filming, it can take a whole day just to get 2 minutes of finished film; damn impressive rehearsal and planning.
@@samwallaceart288 speaking of efficiency in filming, Sidney Lumet, Clint Eastwood, and Steven Spielberg were/are all champions of that. It still boggles my mind how Lumet made SERPICO and Spielberg made WAR OF THE WORLDS and especially MUNICH back-to-back, all with such insanely tight schedules and short filming-to-theatrical release windows. To give perspective, SERPICO began filming in July 1973 (with Lumet being hired right before filming start as a last minute replacement) and released in December that year; filming start to release for WAR OF THE WORLDS spanned 7 months, and MUNICH began filming on June 29, 2005 (the same day WAR OF THE WORLDS released) and released on Christmas Day 2005.
This was done in the era without digital cameras too!
i believe the expression the father gives at the end has a much more melancholic connotation then at first glance because although it must feel great to see his son truly succeed at his passion the way he’s been talking about for forever and even smiling while doing so, it’s also a moment of loss. Seeing the countless terrible decisions Neiman made throughout the movie for this goal just for all of it to be validated is probably terrifying and if he knew anything about how Fletcher was treating him, he’s essentially witnessing himself lose his son to the art and his abuser in that one moment.
When you strive for your teacher's approval over your father's.
Actually that was the last time he played drums, he was at peace. He got with the girl, made his father a granddad and they all go on camping trips every year
You're over thinking it
@@matta2738 How? It's a completely valid reading of the film. Just because it's not outright ex0lained to the audience doesn't mean someone's "reaching." Media literacy these days, man.
@@thenewinquisition2392 That would be nice but in truth he will burn himself out trying to push himself harder and harder until he dies by his early 30s from a drug overdose. What is worse is Neiman thinks that is a good thing because Fletcher manipulated him into believing so and his father is watching this knowing he has lost his son to this.
This movie triggered me as well. I grew up playing the violin and from age 8 to 16, I was both physically and verbally abused by music teachers. Classical music is so strict and I hated it. My mom was pretty controlling and wouldn't let me quit. I had teachers telling me I couldn't do this or that because I might break my fingers. I was about 9 or 10 when I tried to break my pinky with a hammer. I really hated it.
And in case anyone is wondering, I went from first chair to never playing again. I was amazing but I hated it.
Thank you for sharing! It’s crazy how common this experience is.
@@Forev3rYoung1947 Yep. Music school made me stop playing for years. They absolutely destroyed my love of music and I had to get it back on my own. Worst part is that everything I learned about playing and theory I could have learned on my own from books, which I came back to on my own, later in life. I learned a lot about myself, but it absolutely destroyed my creative spark for many years.
Terrible leadership. Sorry you went through this.
@@NatalieGoldReactsI just got to the part where you plug your streaming live stream channel, I don't know if you noticed but you're a thumbnail became a meme for Elden ring. I forget where I saw it but someone took the thumbnail and said something like " average first from soft players game" I thought to myself " hey I know that Creator"
the ending scene at the surface looks really hopeful, and it looks like he finally won against Fletcher. but it's actually the opposite, he lost. Andrew had took so much abuse just to get Fletcher's approval, and Fletcher has now pulled him completely. Andrew will never be satisfied and will keep on pushing himself. basically, the abuse "worked", and Andrew is now broken.
iirc, in the script, the shot of his dad seeing Andrew was meant to imply him realizing that he had lost his son to his abuser
I saw an analysis that compares this movie to Black Swan, and now I can't unsee it.
Disagree. Andrew has arrived
@@user-oq9mv8pc2g I think both
@@user-oq9mv8pc2g Agreed. They both won. Andrew wanted this from the beginning. His entire goal was to be a great drummer that everyone knows no matter the cost. People don't have to like that goal. They don't have agree that people should want that. But Andrew DOES want that and at the end he got it. He's been recognized by his mentor figure as having what it takes to be great. Fletcher got his Charlie Parker. Andrew got his affirmation that he has what it takes to truly achieve his goal. The relationship is toxic and most people won't ever understand why Andrew wants this so much, but at the end, they both are getting what they want out of it.
I don't really think that is what that scene implies... I think it just means that the father finally understood why it meant so much to his son.
I think the ending is a lot more sinister than a lot of people realize. The ending isn't Neiman triumphing over Fletcher, it's him selling his soul to Fletcher. He could've walked off the stage and joined his dad, but he instead chose to play out of an insatiable need to prove himself. Sure, he hates Fletcher to a degree, but the thing he wants more than anything is Fletcher's approval, and that's exactly what he got. Neiman's dad sees this, which is why he looks so horrified at the end. Neiman has become another one of Fletcher's pawns.
Even if the director said otherwise, I think there would be a fair amount of "death of the author" to apply to this. Is the talent worth it when it blossoms from such a unhealthy place? Well for some people their health isn't a factor when it comes to the meaning of their life.
very good point
It’s up to interpretation that’s the beauty of it
i think is up to interpretation as well, for me he doesnt care about fletcher that much, he does this to save his career and for the public. At the end of the day, the public decides if he is a good drummer or not. Also this explains why the other music players follow him and not fletcher, because they realize about this vendetta that could damage their image. His father looks with horror because he realize how important and good his son is, remember that for him being a football player was better than playing the drums. At the end, fletcher and Neiman approved each other, neiman understood that all that pain was necessary to become the best, and fletcher was happy he made a true drum master.
Oh boohooo.. turn my pages
I always saw Andrew's father's look at the end of the film as one of melancholy. He is proud to see his son and finally recognized his artistic talent, but also realizes that Andrew is now a slave to the approval of Fletcher and the pursuit of greatness to the detriment of your social life and mental health. It could be interpreted both ways.
No easy way to become great. 'Sacrifice' is needed in case of the film
Whiplash and The Social Network is imo top tier film editing ever!
Also both great examples of a character delving into "The Dark Night of the Soul" as Nat puts it. Being great at something often has its drawbacks
It's a crime that both those movies didn't win Best Picture the years they were individually nominated!
What his father told him about dying alone at 34 and the tragedy of Sean Casey is foretelling what will happen to him.
Yeah, maybe he's on the same level as Charlie Parker, but at what cost? His father knew the moment he saw him playing like that at the end.
Such a powerful movie.
The price of greatness at the end he became a new Charlie Parker. A legend but his life is gone. The son is gone.
Sorry, don't know the language, but you are not smart. Your position without sense. "It will happen to him..." - your words. You know nothing but you sure that it will happen with him too. No. Neiman stronger than Casey. Neiman now is a legend, who love music. No alcohol in his life, no drugs. Only music and way to stars. He is young, but he is smart and he is great. He have strong mentality. He is an artist, he is truly leader now. You said that he have the same level as Parker. No. Parke is Parke. Neiman is Neiman. Cost? He is not a child now. He is an adult and he lose his chilhodd. He lose nothing. His father still love him, but now he will respect him more, because he knows about his talent. I don't remember his respect to son, when they have a family-dinner. He was against him and not support his son. Another guy write: "His life is gone. The son is gone". I have one question. You was drunk when you write about it? Andrew is a fighter. You forget scene with car accident. Nothing can stop this guy now. He destroy his teacher and he create his future. Fletcher can work with Neiman in future. This two guys can write a book about their story. It's much stronger story, than story about Parker and plate. They can made a autobiography-movie. They can repeat the show many times. Fletcher was a villain in the movie, true, but he create legendary Neiman. Teacher-traitor finally find his "bird". Smile in the end. Terence is happy. Andrew is happy too. Sorry, my english is a trash, but I hope that you will understand my position.
@@DDC77 I'm not reading all that, specially when you open insulting my intelligence.
I shared my point of view and I don't care about some random anonymous internet stranger that starts a reply with "You're not smart" so piss off
@@DanReyesB Classic: I don't want to read your text, but I want to write text to you... He is 100% don't care about some random anonymous, but he show me his toxic reaction on my text. Nice logic. Like I said: genius. First moment I thought it was my mistake, bcs it was 1 wrong-sentence from me, but now I understand that it was true.
@@DDC77this is dripping pretentiousness and it's hilarious
The last sequence of this film is so intense and anxiety-inducing I almost can’t watch this film again. JK Simmons puts on a showcase in this film and Miles responds in kind. Hell of a film.
That final performance is just exceptional, a masterful display of acting, directing, editing, sound and cinematography, legitimately one of the best endings to a film that I've ever seen
As a drummer and as someone with mild tinnitus, I NEED you to watch the sound of metal.
Ooo I’ve heard great things about that one! I kind of had the plot spoiled for me though but still would love to watch it
@@NatalieGoldReacts It's definetly worth it, great movie, would love to see your reaction
Amazing movie
Outstanding rec.. imo.. I suffer from tinnitus as well. I listen to music and white noise constantly to drown out the ringing and buzzing. The movie Baby Driver is pretty good also..
@@PastaDon_ yes tinnitus gang rise up (I loveee baby driver too))))
Might be the best acting I’ve seen in a movie
Try There Will Be Blood if you haven't yet. You'll love it.
Last King of Scotland.
It's a film where you think he wins at the end but he actually loses. His father summed up what will happen to him, dying young and alone, because of that obsession. His teacher will continue on, vindicated that his methods found the next Charlie Parker.
That look on his father's face at the end of the movie is a look of horror. In that moment he lost his son.
@kingbrunies yeah, not sure how Nat misread that so badly...
@@havok6280 its not misread . its up to interpretation. I personally think bittersweet
Even if his father is right and that's how Andrew ends up, it's what he wants. He's been warned it can happen. He even saw it close up with the story of Sean Casey. But he still wants it. So did he lose at the end? Just because what he wants isn't what most people would want, that means getting it is losing? No. Andrew is winning at the end. He's getting what he wants, what he explicitly tells his father he wants ("I'd rather die young and have people talk about than live to be old and no one knows who I am"). That may not be a life you'd want, it may not be a life I'd want, but it's the life Andrew wants and he's getting it at the end, he's getting affirmation from his mentor figure that he really does have what it takes to be truly great. So many people think he's losing because what he's winning isn't a reward they'd want. But Andrew does want it.
@@havok6280 I don't see it as a misread. Andrew got what he wanted so the end is up to interpretation.
We need a lala land reaction after this one. Same director, same theme of music but drastically different
Same theme of cutting the movie when you dont want it to end
YES
All people who were involved in the arts know the pain in this movie, as a viola player all my list I'm getting war flashbacks. My high school orchestra teacher would rip up my music sheet so I would memorize the music and threw a stand at me before for playing a wrong note. It's definitely not talked about enough which is why I'm glad this music exists. Also I loved your reaction and your thoughts at the end!
Jesus Christ dude why didn't you memorize your music? 😂 jk ... (Simmons).
Now you HAVE to go through a 2014 Best Picture nominees marathon. WHIPLASH was one of 8 nominated, and all of them incidentally won at least 1 Oscar (WHIPLASH was one of only 3 movies to win multiple awards that year, with THE GRAND BUDAPEST HOTEL and that year's Best Picture winner BIRDMAN being the other 2).
I loooveee Birdman, such a fun movie
Never heard of those movies. Were they really that good?
@@BOT_JERRY I heavily recommend all of them. Such an eclectic bunch nominated that year. The others nominated were SELMA, BOYHOOD, THE IMITATION GAME, THE THEORY OF EVERYTHING, and AMERICAN SNIPER.
THE GRAND BUDAPEST HOTEL was my personal favorite of the bunch, with BIRDMAN and BOYHOOD tied for 2nd and WHIPLASH right behind.
@@axr7149 I'll check Selma out this weekend. Thanks for the recommendations
that was such a banger year for film. 2018 was also packed with incredible best picture nominees!
The end when his dad is watching him through the door says so much to me. Not only awestruck but also terrified.
I relate to this movie a lot too. Honestly this was only the second time I watched it and it's tough. One thing is certain, they captured well the absolute stress and perfectionist obsession of the main characters (I remember it's inspired by the director's own experiences), and you feel that. And if you've gone through something similar, you REALLY feel that.
J.K. Simmons
Obliterates as Fletcher 😂😂
I love how this movie explores so many things. How far should a teacher push a pupil to achieve greatness? How much is too much to where it becomes diminishing returns pursuing your dreams? Also the dynamic of getting the approval of one's teacher and someone you respect. That's something you pointed out quite early that some other people don't as easily. The fact that yes, Andrew was driven by a desire to be great, but just as much he was driven by his desire to get Fletcher's approval. That smile and nod at the end to Andrew made everything to that point worth it for him. That was his "Mission accomplished."
I remember watching this movie on theaters by accident cause I got late for the movie I went to see originally and this became my plan B without knowing much about it. This was hands down one of my best experiences in a movie theater, when I got out I was so pumped, I wanted to just scream.
I played soccer since 8 to 16 years old and I had a coach just like Fletcher, and this movie felt like therapy to me. I love it, one of my favorite movies of all time.
Some of the best movie experiences are the random pick you didn't know about
Yup, I relate to this movie a lot. I went to college on scholarships for vocal jazz, and while i can't say i was physically abused by my instructors, i had many experiences that shook me and made me lose a certain love for the art. I dropped out not to go back to college years later to become a wildlife biologist. Im very proud of my decisions and the career I have now, but it is a shame that it is just becoming more and more common to hear stories like this
Brother it is easily becoming less and less common idk what you’re talking about
@@GiveMeTheRice: My impression is it’s becoming more common to hear stories like this, and that’s making it a little less easy (but in no way impossible) to get away with abusive behavior like this.
The more we talk about a culture of abuse the more people will be in the lookout for it.
@@GiveMeTheRice factually Incorrect statement
@@evanmiller4502 Link a study then, friend
My favorite film of 2014. It's aged immaculately and never gets boring on rewatches.
I never thought about it like that, but your take that the editing itself felt 'jazzy' is such an interesting analysis and it just furthers my love for cinematography and what's achievable in the medium of making movies.
I was pleasantly surprised that you hadn't done this one yet. Thank you for sharing your feelings so honestly. You thoroughly enhanced the experience of re-watching the film.
Loved your insight, Nat. What’s funny is there are so many people that get joy from your videos, so wouldn’t you be considered great, anyway? There’s more than one way to greatness, to meaningful connection to an audience.
Back in the 1970's , I played in a top notch touring jazz band in high school randomly stacked with musical talent. And we were all partying degenerate teenagers. If our band leader tried any of the crap seen in this movie, he would have had his tires slashed every week until he learned how to behave. LOL. Almost 50 years later, I'm sure any of my old band mates who saw this movie had a good laugh like I did.
I think the excellence of this movie is its ability like you said to transport you back to a moment in our own lives. Anyone who has performed at a higher level in anything to any extent can relate to this. For me it was baseball. The scene where the three drummers practice for hours to the point of their hands bleeding and not receiving feedback, takes me directly back to a particular night of my life. It is true. The next great would not be discouraged. If you want to be the one you have to be willing to put aside everything else in your life to get to that point. It’s something I did and wasn’t willing to continue doing so. So good.
Nat, I can't believe you nearly have 500k subscribers. I remember watching back at the beginning of the MCU reactions! It's incredible to see how far you've come. Thanks for making my days happier
Didn't think it would leave me as shook as it did, the abusive dynamic is so authentic. It is a pathway to great art but it is not the only pathway, or even a good one.
Honestly, I don't think it's even a pathway to great art. It's more like a sifter that only let's a fraction of great art through.
Hi Natalie,
This is the first time I'm leaving a comment, but I felt it was almost necessary to do so! This was one of the best reactions I've ever seen for this movie. Thank you for being so open about your personal life and for sharing so much with us, your fears and anxieties.
Also, I have to say, I like to watch reactions in order to improve my English (I'm from Brazil), and your accent, the way you stress the words, sounds so clear, It's so relaxing, so good to listen to... I really like it!
I saw this in theatres and legit had to leave, take off my shirt and go back in with just my hoodie on cos I was sweating so much from stress.
I love how you pointed out the exceptional film editing and cinematography, especially concerning the climactic performance at the end. Some of the sharpest and most precise film editing I’ve ever seen, and I’ve watched close to 1400 movies. This film was nominated for the Oscar for best picture, and won for best film editing, sound mixing, and supporting actor for J.K. Simmons.
Since Jk Simmons also voices Tenzin, someone edited Tenzin verbally assaulting the new Airbenders during their training using lines from this movie. 😂
Edit: the breakup monologue is one of my go-tos for auditions.
omggg 😂
Theres a video with omni man beating the shit out of Invincible but they use lines from here as well😂
@@NatalieGoldReacts czcams.com/video/lmUi8YkPTxE/video.html
This is one of my favorite movies. I am so happy you're finally watching it!
This was one of my favorite reactions from you because of your familiarity and personal experience with this type of environment. I enjoyed your commentary and monologue at the very end. Good work! Keep it up.
Even in a movie reaction, Whiplash still makes my stress levels peak. absolutely incredible performance by JK Simmons & Miles Teller
Amazing reaction aside, Natalie what you said about how sometimes all it takes is "a little bit of talent and that extra level of work" was so real. I know you didn't intend to come off inspiring, but you inspired me! 😄
I just wanted to share this little story. But my father passed away in 2018. He was a drummer his whole life and was in a few bands, his last band was called the reckless kind. A little southern rock band. He had a heart attack on stage for a Halloween show. ( he always said if he died he'd want it to be on stage doing what he loves and even though he passed 3 weeks later, he himself was gone that night, it's pretty bad ass of him tbh)
Anywayss to the actual point of the story, he loved this movie so so much, and shared it with me. Years later when I met my beautiful gf, I shared the movie w her too. This movie is just so pure and raw. I adore it. And I can't help but feel like I'm spending time with him every time I watch it. Idk. Thank you for watching this, and sharing it with us aswell. I love your videos and watch them all the time. Also if you havnt seen fury (2014) you should!
❤❤❤
Thats a beautiful analyze and dissection of the final scene and character growth in Andrew that I didn't think about watching this movie . Really enjoyed that :)
The most personal reaction from Natalieeeee... love it!!!!
That drumroll / spinning chair combo 😄
Watched this movie for the first time with Nat over on her Patreon and it was unforgettable 😊
So interesting to get your take on Whiplash and, you know...sorry for the PTSD. Every jazz musician I've talked to about this film, and every one I've seen mentioning it in interviews, has *hated* it - said it was completely unrealistic and that Fletcher would have been thrown out of the conservatory long ago. On the other hand, I come from a classical music background, and it rang totally true. Not, by a long shot, about all teachers, and not reminiscent of any of my teachers, but there were definitely teachers like this, and we all talked about it.
My dad was a classical clarinetist, and one of the more pre-eminent teachers he had was a European emigre; this would be back in the late 50s. He complained that American students were treated like infants, and groused about the fact that he wasn't supposed to scream at them. The teaching tradition he grew up with involved breaking down students and then building them back up stronger. Which kind of sounds like the first half of Full Metal Jacket.
I think it's a brilliant film, regardless of whether it's representative of jazz pedagogy, but I'm also repulsed by it. From my point of view, by the end Fletcher is convinced he was right in his abuse, Nieman agrees, and I'm not sure Damien Chazelle thinks otherwise, either.
Great reaction. The personal connection for Natalie showed through and made the whole video extra-engaging.
One of my absolute favorite movies of all time. I can also resonate with it, and you finally gave it a watch!
This movie's ending really is kind of two-faced in a way, because on one hand Neiman kinda put Fletcher in his place, showed him he was talented, proved himself but also did it in spite of Fletcher's legitimate revenge-driven attempt to break him, he beat Fletcher at his game and got his approval....
But on the other hand he has just given in to the obsession, he physically injures himself for his art, pushed away people in his life that cared about him, proved Fletcher's point, validating him in his abusive ways, like that shot of his dad looking at him, like yeah there's amazement at how fantastic his son is at this thing he loves, but also distress at how hard he's pushing himself, no less for the very person who's been abusing him.
My only criticism of this movie is that I don't really know where it stands because of the ending, whereas I know where I stand and this has been pointed out by jazz musicians, and it's that art is not worth torturing yourself for. I know that while YES, it is possible for abuse to bring out the greatness in people, it shouldn't HAVE TO. In fact Fletcher's whole "the next Charlie Parker would not be discouraged" is only half the truth. Someone like that would not be discouraged, but people just as good as him absolutely have been discouraged by people like Fletcher, someone like Fletcher KILLS more Charlie Parkers than they create and even if they aren't as good as Charlie Parker, they don't deserve to be trampled in some maniacal scramble to the top, for all the good being at the top does you (Charlie Parker died at age 35 btw, the coroner mistook his body for that of a 60 year old...).
My only venture into art is there occasional homebrew D&D narratives, some short stories to go along wiht it.
But i felt that the end of the movie is like the "neutral" of the argument, the audience now sees both sides and can decided in which oen they're in. Sean could've died because of Fletcher, but there's the possibility it was because of his support group wasn't there and that's the cause (at least if you believe Fletcher was somewhat truthful when he lies about how Sean died). While Andrew only ever dealt with Fletcher doubting him, his support group was always there even if some didn't care about the matter
But these are still colored by the audience. In my case i have some experiences with a bully's parents saying "He's an angel, it wasn't his fault" and i was thinking "Your angel nearly made me go head first into a shard of ceramics embeded on a wall because he didn't like how i looked", so the family lying isn't out of the realm of possibility
One of the best takes I've seen on the ending to this movie.
For every Charlie Parker born from Fletcher's abusive, horrible teaching method, four other Charlie Parkers are born from encouragement, and kindness, and support
A good movie doesn’t tell you what the right answer is, it shows you a reality and lets you decide. You see how passionate this movie got you about its message? It caused you to think deeply about the treatment of performers by their lead and allowed you to formulate a strong argument against the philosophy these leads have, all because it dared to trust you enough to think for yourself.
@@doggo9388 okay, obviously. But films aren’t inherently neutral.
For example when the movie shows Fletcher physically abusing Neiman to the point where he’s in incredible distress, the movie is obviously framing that as a bad thing that he’s doing. If the movie framed it in a more comedic way it’d be telling you something different.
What I’m talking about when I say I don’t exactly know where the movie stands on the issue is because of how it FRAMES the final sequence. It clearly frames Neiman taking charge of the band and impressing Fletcher as a kind of victory, a triumphant moment for him. BUT, it still shows that he’s physically injuring himself AND it includes Fletcher within that victory, allowing him to bask in Neiman’s victory by supporting him towards the end and admiring his performance. And then the final most important shot in this regard is during the brief pause at the end of his solo when he looks up at Fletcher again, sees Fletcher smile and nod at him, putting a joyous grin on Neiman’s face as if to suggest that winning Fletcher’s approval is his final victory, despite clearly depicting Fletcher as a real big piece of shit who drove another talented student to suicide.
There are some small confounding factors to this, but the fact that it allows the main antagonist of the film participate in the ending in this way without actually having grown as a character (he essentially just recognizes Neiman’s great talent). The film makes no suggestion that he realizes Neiman’s so great in spite of his methods and not because of them.
There is no such thing as a ”neutral ” film, there are only ones that don’t beat you over the head with its own biases, but it can’t avoid those biases. The reason this movie’s stance on the issue is unclear is because it sends mixed signals to the audience. Now that in and of itself as a concept isn’t bad, juxtaposition is a thing that can be very powerful, but this isn’t that.
For example: and spoiler alert for the movie ”Midsommar”
The film ends with the main character getting emotionally manipulated into an insane death cult, being so wholly screwed that she helplessly watches her boyfriend being sacrificially burned alive and yet smiles because she’s found a community that treats her as one of their own and the movie uses juxtaposition by framing it as a joyous moment through the lighting, the music (subtly) and the way her character reacts to it… But it’s obvious that the movie isn’t ENDORSING religious sacrifice and death cults, it’s a horrific film, and so the juxtaposition makes the ending more powerful because it heightens the clear tragedy of the moment, seeing her get fully integrated into this murderous cult of lunatics.
This movie isn’t able to do this, it isn’t able to fully depict Fletcher’s abusive methods as bad because in the end it seems to validate them, all it does is suggest he doesn’t realize his success and it briefly runs away from him as Neiman takes charge of the band before he gets on board again.
And so what happens is that Neiman’s falls back into his abuser’s orbit and the film really leans toward portraying this as a victory through its framing.
BUT. I will say that while it’s not enough, the reading of the ending does depend on how you read Fletcher’s response Neiman taking control of the band. You CAN interpret his response as a budding realization that abusing Neiman doesn’t work anymore (like how when he moves to threaten Neiman again he stares Fletcher dead in the eye and loudly hits the cymbal in his face, causing him to recoil) and then you see Fletcher start to approve of what he’s doing and begin to support him rather than verbally abuse him, especially in the moment when he fixes the orientation of the slanted cymbal for Neiman and starts properly conducting and getting immersed into his performance. You CAN interpret that as character growth for him if you want, and I choose to… but it’s not really enough for the above average viewer to discern growth and that growth is key to the whole thing.
It’s the key difference that determines whether this movie is a functional success story or a tragedy that doesn’t fully understand that it’s a tragedy. It all depends on whether the film is able to communicate that Fletcher understands he was wrong in abusive ways. The film is WORSE, not better, if it doesn’t take an implicit stance on whether abuse is a valid way of pushing someone toward excellence. No art is neutral, don’t make the mistake of believing that, it all has bias and that bias will come forward in the conclusion of the film.
Fun fact, Miles Teller is a trained drummer, though I believe he was a rock drummer and had to learn jazz drumming for the movie. He does all the drumming in the movie himself, and the final solo was about three days' worth of shooting Miles drumming in parts and then splicing it together in the editing booth. Absolute magic.
What a great movie. Your reaction popped up in my feed 3 days ago and honestly I was like no thanks, I’ve seen it once and it was great but I don’t think I can do it again. Glad I did, your reaction and commentary summed it up perfectly.
This is in my top 3 favorite movies of all time. Glad to see you reacting to it :)
I've been surrounded by tremendous leadership my whole life. This crap only happens in places that don't have a robust leadership culture. For example. in my decade in the military, leaders were very well trained. Even the poor leaders in the US Army had a support system to assist them. Abusive leadership and domineering leadership was not tolerated. And yet, that positive leadership pushed you to your limits of ability. In the private sector, leadership is sink or swim, and often the biggest personalities, regardless of ability, rise to the top. They didn't know how to lead without being domineering. Problems aren't addressed until the fire just gets too big. This scenario is utterly believable. I feel for all the folks hurt by terrible leaders.
Also extremely common in kitchens. When you think of an abusive chef, you think Gordon Ramsay, right? Wrong. Marco Pierre White, Ramsay's chef and mentor, would berate his staff on a good day, and throw utensils and pans at them on a bad one. Sometimes he'd go to a cook's station, call the entire kitchen to gather round, and say "look at this s***" without elaborating on why it was wrong. He was for a long time the youngest chef to ever obtain 3 Michelin stars, the highest honor a chef can achieve. To this day he says "yeah sometimes your chef will throw pans at you during service, it's not personal, just take it", when in reality it was this kind of attitude that inspired the next generation to change, teaching through kindness and leading by example instead of fear. Bad leaders can succeed at one thing: showing how not to act, and forming people who will do the right thing so they don't become the leader they hate.
J.K. is an amazing man and very nice and friendly irl pretty much everyone says, so him playing this much of an absolute a hole is amazing in a way
Watching this for the first time is wild. Thanks Nat
Loved this reaction Nat!
This movie is absolute proof that teachers like JK Simmons’ character that educate their students through fear, intimidation, humiliation, and abuse, don’t use those methods as a way to “truly” teach and improve their students, but really as an excuse to be an asshole.
People can learn and draw out their potential just as much with positive reinforcement as negative reinforcement. There is absolutely no reason for teachers, coaches, or trainers to treat anyone like this. People like Fletcher only do it feel better about themselves.
Yet, the premise of the film is that Nieman would never have gotten to that peak virtuosic level without fletcher pushing him. Just remember, cave men were not coddled. No positive reinforcement yet they survived. Suffering breeds greatness. Put your feelings away to recognize that truth before administering arm chair morality.
@@NA1c158 It's not arm chair morality. There is a universal right and wrong. But it's also about the fact that if Neiman didn't fit, Fletcher should have just found somebody else. I've been fired before, but recognize that my bosses didn't abuse me for not measuring up. You can't justify sadism.
@@NA1c158That is not the premise of the film. Niemann cheats to get into the band due to the intense pressure and engages in a self-destructive rampage to try and keep himself there.
He upstages Fletcher at the end after being accepted and loved by his family even after a failure.
😂
@@NA1c158 Yeah, that's why it isn't a good film. "Suffering" does not breed greatness; there's absolutely no basis for that statement. Hard work and dedication, as well as the economic opportunity to succeed creates greatness.
00:03
Me: ☝️ NOPE
Not my tempo!
Yaaas, one of my favorite movies! Wish more people would react to this. Glad you did!
I appreciate you and thank you for making content.
As someone who also dealt with this in college, it isn’t necessary for this type of behavior to help the cream ride to the top. The ones that aren’t ever going to make it will inevitable get phased out, and the ones that will will make it. He’s more likely to discourage someone from ever playing again than he is from finding the next Charlie Parker (which he never puts the pieces together why he never had one).
Yea, there's a bit of irony in his logic. He claims that the next Charlie Parker would never be discourage, implying that someone like Parker is going to have it in him to succeed through any kind of obstacle. Which begs the question, why would you ever need to put someone through that guantlet then in the first place? If the Charlie Parker's of the world are going to become the Charlie Parkers no matter what, you shouldn't need to psychologically abuse them just to get them to come to fruition.
At the end of the day, Fletcher's logic was to serve his own desire to touch greatness in some way, having never become a Charlie Parker himself.
If this film got Natalie so stressed, she wouldn’t be able to cope with Uncut Gems
Agreed. This movie is very stressful, but Uncut Gems is engineered to mimic a panic attack. It's a rough watch. Amazing, but not a very fun experience.
The universe is so funny because I had never seen this movie before and I just randomly decided to watch it literally 2 days ago and now here you are reacting to it as well.
One of the best films in the last 20 years here if not ever for me. Love it!
Fletcher is worse than Omni-Man
Yeah, Omni-Man, you can't physically hit. Fletcher, you can hit him but don't and you really really wanna.
"I can always start again. Make another band."
Now we know why JK Simmons was chosen to voice Omni-man
Yikes what an experience. This movie always gets me. Its inspiring in how serious their passion is taken, even with the abuse, especially when you feel you are lazy/not pushing yourself... but then its also disgusting taking it to that lvl.
Brilliant movie! But at the end of the day all thats needed is like minded hard working individuals/friends
Getting a bachelors and masters in percussion performance gave me horrific stress dreams. And this dang movie put all those stress dreams on the big screen. The missing sticks was a big one haha
Not quite my tempo :3
As a drummer, the movie cracks me up. There’s scenes where I’m like, “What are they doing?” Like some of the practices JK is having them do is achieving nothing lol
I never get tired of watching this movie, thanks for reacting
I'm so happy reaction channels are finally seeing this movie. I saw it 6 times in theatre it was absolutely phenomenal and is in my top 5 movies of all time.
Andrew breaking up with his girlfriend early is actually the most mature and smart thing in this movie. He knew he would choose his own success over her so he made the decision that made it easier on both of them.
He also assumed what all her responses would be, which is decidedly not mature
I’ve seen so many reactors slaughter him for that scene which confuses me so much man. Even if the roles reversed the woman would’ve been praised for pursing her dream no matter the cost
@@DecSteele she would've been called a bitch, stop lying
I agree. He cut to the chase and was honest with her right then and there. It would have been way worse down the line. Honesty is the best policy.
it was immature af, he let his ego get to him, and chose the obviously toxic response. he was abused to the point of making a mistake that even he truly didnt agree with. no matter your passions, you have time for others. this was a bad thing lol
Your media literacy is incredible, your thoughts at the end were really thorough and I hope I can do the same
This was a beautiful reaction 💙
I watched this movie after watching Black Swan with Natalie Portman and it's insane seeing the parallels but also the eventual differences between both movies with both protagonists going to the point of severely harming themselves to reach what they thing is their true potential , just for their true potential to be a tragic ending. I love both of the movies and I love seeing different people's interpretation of them.
This is one of the best movies ive seen. Surprising a film about music could also be one of the tensest things ive ever seen. But the end is amazing. The last shot of Simmon's eyes where he smiles just sent shivers down my spine, and i love the whole exploration of how far is too far in the search for perfection, but the end is so ambiguous. Like the end shot seems to end on a climax but then its like...was it really worth it? Absolutely fantastic film and an absolutely phenomenal performance by JK Simmons and Miles Teller.
Im sure i read somewhere that Teller actually did most of the drumming in this himself as well.
Most of the people in this movie were actual musicians and not actors.They were legitimately scared during some of the scenes. If you see the movie "Fame", about an art school, it is fantastic.
This movie is actually the movie I watched the most (20 times) and also my favorite reaction from any reactioners. I love to see people in whiplash reaction videos feel the same intense feeling that I felt in 2014 theater. It's like sharing theatrical experience together but separated at home (And that's what reaction vids do actually!)
Thank you for watching this movie Natalie like always! send love from South Korea ❤
It’s funny you should say that that it “brought you back to your past a lot and stressed you out” as I went to a top music conservatoire in London and this film always makes me cry. The pressure and sometimes abuse from the staff in these types of institutions are no joke! Obviously not as bad as the actual film (obviously they have to dramatise events for the sake of the film) but these sorts of this actually DO happen.
Finally Nat!!! I suggested this film a couple of times and it is absolutely a gorgeous film by Damien Chazelle
Nattie G doing Whiphy-P! Love the film and the stress levels. Thank you!
natalieee id love to see you watching anatomy of a fall, great video, love you
One of my favorite movies. I must have watched it like 20 times. The performances are incredible
When I performed with a certain east coast drum and bugle corps back in 2001 and 2002, this was exactly what the main brass instructors were like. There was no physical striking, but we ran a ton for mistakes and sometimes the mistakes of others. It was definitely crossing over the line of emotional abuse. I managed it fine, but I could see it affect others.
This is my nightmare. I've been here. The anxiety of watching this is over the top.
The acting was ... I had forgotten this film. TY
This is tied with Good Will Hunting as my 2 favorite movies ever. I don't go a month without rewatching either of them. It's an addiction.
Love your reaction,such a good movie.I was waiting for you to react to this,didn't know you would relat to this movie so intensively though.
The only reason Fletcher is happy at the whole final scene is because his own name will forever be a part of the Nieman story. To me, this movie is a tragedy even if the first time to watch it, it feels good to see Andrew play well at the end
I can't tell whether Whiplash is one of my favorite or least favorite movies. On the one hand, I have never seen artistic obsession depicted in the way that Whiplash does it. The pressure to succeed in such a technical field encourages near-robotic levels of ability, and can drain the soul out of performing without the proper balance and people to help tether your perspective. One of the most chilling moments for me is the look Andrew's father gives while watching him perform during the finale. I believe the expression he portrays is one of amazement at the heights that Andrew was able to achieve, as well as shock and dread concerning what his son has become. Throughout the film, we see Andrew isolate himself from his family, friends, and Nicole, all in the effort to exert himself further into drumming, his worldview getting more and more narrow. In pursuit of perfection, it is easy to lose sight of how far you progress along the way, and ultimately, it's a dragon that you''l end up chasing forever. Passion can easily slip into obsession, and even if there isn't a Fletcher in your life influencing the way you approach your art, that Fletcher can just as easily exist within your own mind. Always remember where you came from in your pursuit for success and remember that art is about love and connection
So ready for you to see this masterpiece
One of my favourite movies ever can’t wait to watch your reaction
One of my favorite videos on the internet is JK Simmons’ Whiplash lines overlayed onto his scenes as Tenzin in Legend of Korra.
I literally gasped when I saw the thumbnail lol. My favorite movie of all time being watched by one of my favorite reactors
This is literally one of my favorite films. Such a commanding story.
This is one of my favorite movies, that I hardly ever want to watch again... I agree with everything you said about this movie, and it needs to be more well known...
Your chair turn intros are amazing.
And yes this movie triggers me also I can't rly watch it but I did once and yep, it's a movie 😂 when business admin relatives try to tell art education is easy and bs I tell them to watch this and ask them if learning how to use Microsoft office is hard 😂
Ahh this is one of my favourite films to watch reactions too! Great film!...stressful as hell but 😂
The dad's Mix of awe(if any, I'm not sure after watching this reaction) and horror at Mile's character giving into his obsession is haunting. even the framing shows he's only going to get a tiny peek into the pain his son is going to go through pushing himself to constantly be better. I think he's afraid his son is going to wind up down the path he mentioned at dinner. What an insanely conflicting movie.
i really love that movie, so glad that my boyfriend recommended it to me a few months ago. I think about it often!