Twitch Is Going 4K AND They Promised To Pay Streamers More
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
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Chapters:
00:00 - Twitch CEO, Dan Clancy, made a very specific promise
00:58 - 65% off stream designs at Own3d.tv (sponsor)
01:39 - What is Enhanced Broadcasting?
02:45 - Automatic Stream Configuration
03:13 - 4k60 Streaming
03:52 - Higher Quality Streams and Transcoding for Everyone
04:32 - Will Twitch actually start paying streamers more?
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Description tags, yo: Twitch, CEO, Enhanced Broadcasting, transcoding, news, updates, promise, Dan Clancy, changes, NVIDIA, OBS
Thanks For Watching!
#Twitch #Streaming #4k - Jak na to + styl
I hate when I film a video about Twitch's financial model and then between filming and posting TWITCH GOES AND LAYS OFF 500 EMPLOYEES.. right??
I mean twitch mo is give something kinda good and bad at the same time, its there playbook at this point
@@CaiRobinsonKinda seems more like Amazon cutting costs in this case rather than a Twitch led decision.
That is nutty. Amazon is such a shit show.
This is why I think it would be difficult to "hold Dan/twitch accountable," because there's no telling what the future holds. Although it looks like Twitch is doing well, it could shut down tomorrow... Don't put it past Mr. Bezos...
@@IAmMightyMikeagreed my man. I’m sorry but twitch is just not it anymore. CZcams is the way to go.
"Plus it will eventually remove Twitches largest financial burden, which is transcoding"
checks notes
or lay off over 30% of its staff..
35%, and 20% in March, and around 30 people from Support in October.
Going to a much higher resolution while firing 35% of your workforce is going to be interesting
How else you think they gonna pay for the higher resolution? It’s a money decision at the end of the day and it truly sucks for the employees! Twitch say they care but in truth they only care about how much profit they make, everything else is secondary
5:38 - Nvidia 4000 series ain't the only ones with AV1 encoding. Intel and AMD have them too.
But Twitch is testing AV1 with nvidia cards first
Twitch has also sent out early sign ups for enhanced streaming so be sure to check your creator dashboards for the opportunity to sign up. It’s first come first serve from what I understand.
Unfortunately, if you look at the small writing, it says you MUST have a 4 series GPU to participate in the Beta... sure
I hope twitch implements a feature that lets affiliates know when transcoding is available for them so when i start my stream i will know if i have to do my own transcoding or not.
Everyone will be getting the free update to OBS studio in the coming months!
Thanks for covering all this. You're a legend
I wonder if advanced broadcasting will eventually be available to someone using an AMD GPU when it eventually gets released, and whether or not it'll still just be a partner thing or for affiliates as well.
Auto stream configuration is going to be so nice!
ayee our stream guide king is here :D
I didn't know about this feature, thank you for telling, Harris.
Lets hope that lot things change for twitch and they can figure out stuff financially. It does make you worry about the future of twitch, I wanna see them be around as long as they can.
I know some people have been quick to hate on Twitch for this update with transcoding saying that they are lazy for putting the "fix" for better streams on us and our hardware instead of fixing it themselves. However, I am with Harris that this new update is a GODSEND not only for streamers who just want better quality streams, but the fact that Twitch will no-longer have to pay for their own transcoding servers which in turn could lead to higher payouts to Twitch Affiliates and Partners.
Yes, you will need a better PC in order to take advantage of this, but I would be willing to bet that 90% of all streamers right now have a PC with a Nvidia GPU that's a 2060 or higher which in this case would be enough to take advantage of this new update.
Great video as always Man and I am excited for the future of Twitch!
P.S. I also am very sorry to hear about all the layoffs today from Twitch and I hope for the absolute best to all the people who lost their place of employment this morning. I have a strong feeling this is also another measure being taken to potentially raise that 50/50 current split. Only time will tell.
I wanna be optimistic about all of these announcements. Like, I really want to... but it's impossible to not bring some counter arguments:
Twitch's owner is the absolute king in web services and servers and stuff. So how is it possible they're not capable of doing the investment on servers that allow transcoding for everyone and the adoption of new (old because AV1 exists since 2018) tech?
I can guarantee you that if you look outside the US, there's A LOT of folks streaming from their 1650s, 1080s and the like which don't have access to AV1. Heck, even the 3000 series cards don't have AV1 encoding, only decoding. Those folks like me will have to use only HEVC.
It boggles my mind that people are already alienating themselves into thinking this has a direct relation or will surely increase the split payouts and balance. Can we be optimistic and think this could happen? Sure. But people are already assuming it will be that way and that is just not true. And that's without considering the layoffs that just happened.
This is a godsend for the top streamers that can afford the hardware and the internet or even already have them. For the smaller/non-partnered streamers, they'll have to pay up to get the benefits of most of this stuff. If you're an affiliate that for some reason has fiber and a 4000 series cards, great on you because you won't have to depend on Twitch's system of transcoding for non-partners but I'm pretty sure that's an exception.
@@estebangardila I'm still using my 1080 because graphics card prices are ridiculous and I can't afford an upgrade. I think this will definitely impact smaller streamers a lot more than they think it will. A lot of us can't afford new components since streaming is a hobby at best and not profitable at all.
Well I fall into that last section you mentioned so for me it's a win. But also if you listened to the video you would know that this new feature will work with ANY GTX Nvidia GPU newer than a 1060. If you are streaming in 2024 more than likely your build fits that profile. @@estebangardila
@@VicariousNick55 But you would only be able to use HEVC and not AV1 because those cards don't have the chips/processors to encode/decode using AV1. As I said before, not even 3000 series can encode AV1, only decode. So if you wanna get the full benefit of this you gotta pay up which is something a lot of small people are not able to because streaming is still a hobby, they're not doing it full time or they have not reached the point of economic balance that allows them to make such investments.
@@VicariousNick55For the Automatic Stream Config and 4k60 is available for everyone but not the AV1 encoding, your hardware need to have AV1 encoding which not that much GPU have yet (especially since twitch might have partnered with nvidia which might mean it only limits to Nvidia's AV1 and not Intel's or AMD's), only the latest 4000 series RTX, Intel GPU and the latest AMD GPU have it, and for most people like me, we only have the AV1 decoding that let you watch AV1 encoded broadcast but not stream it
As someone that was one of the first folk to get affiliate back when that program launched I'm very excited to see how the enhanced transcoding goes. I live in Bumblef**k Oregon, connection isn't great, and while my PC is pretty decent, I KNOW the transcoding will make it look better. No more having to futz around with the transcoding will be an absolute godsend.
So question about the automatic stream adjustment thing.
How will this work for dual pc setups? Are they just gonna look at my streaming pc and set it up like its a single streaming/gaming pc or will they have some sort of option to let them know 'Hey, this is my streaming pc for only streaming!' and adjust from there?
Yeah I don't like removing the control from the user in this case.
So, my one big concern - With Twitch in control of the settings, I don’t want to see Twitch deciding to throttle down smaller streamers to lower bitrates ‘just because they can.
CZcams does not throttle down smaller streamers to lower bitrates unlike twitch does and that's why CZcams is better. smaller streamers on CZcams can stream at 1440p or higher resolutions.
@@ClayBenTreeceJr.Yes that's true, but with twitch being more streaming focused, it's easier to build a community there (idealy people would be using both)
This is cool from a tech side. It does mean you just need more processing power to even stream 720p now as you have to transcode as well, and you’ll need more bandwidth to transmit 3-5 video streams at once.
Think of it this way: if you were streaming 1080p, you’ll now also be streaming a 720p and 480p video. Before compression, that is a 60% increase in data as you’re adding a few million extra pixels. Once you add in 4k, it’s going to be a lot of bandwidth and processing.
Now, it’s not likely to cause issues unless you were at the absolute limits of your rig and internet bandwidth, but it could significantly effect a lot of small streamers who don’t have the money for an upgrade
Yea, they are saving money, by moving their work to our PC's. Nice!!
Sorry i woke up 5 minutes ago and on top of that English is not my main language so i'm not really sure if I got everything right... We will be able to transcode the live on our end by using a 4000 series gpu (which i have, RTX 4060), but when are we going to get it? Some, or all, twitch partner already got it? Is there a way to ask for this feature if i am a partner/affiliate? Do i have to update OBS in order to do it? (if it's available right now)
Sorry for all the questions ahahahha and thanks for your time
The client-side transcoding seems like it will compete directly with the multi-platform streaming (going to YT and Twitch simultaneously). Since it sounds like Twitch will provide the stream settings, it won't work with something like Restream. Any thoughts on the cost-benefits there?
You can use SoraYuki Plugin and set different settings for YT, for example. I hope it will work on OBS versions, which Twitch deliver to us
I'd still prefer to manually configure OBS but we will see. I wonder how this will impact say those that use something like Restream services?
@senpai
Harris, this is prolly an out there question, was there any mention of SLOBS being able to use that functionality as well, or is it just a thing that twitch is doing with nvidia and obs?
Does this client side transcoding mean that it’s going to take more system power to stream than it used to? For competitive high speed type of games, any sort of strain on PC performance is a hinderance on personal performance, would hate to see that get worse
Yes, it will take more system resources. Since the encoding is primarily a video card thing, one option for single PC setups could be a secondary video card to handle encoding plus a few other system things so the primary can focus on gaming. I really, REALLY hope each of Nvidia, AMD, and Intel roll out single slot cards geared towards the encoding end of things so we can have more options for how to build rigs.
Twitch really gives zero fucks sometimes
In a way, this new change could also bring back dual PC setups and make them more prominent once more. What I mean with that is if you stream something that's intensive, like VR, for example, I'm not sure that the GPU on the PC will be able to run the VR system, Encode the data and then transcode it. But, if you did stream using a dual setup, the secondary PC could be used to encode and transcode the system easily without affecting the Streamer. I'm saying this without knowing much yet on how much transcoding will affect the GPU, but I doubt that it would be something that can be ignored easily
And boom, additional costs, plus running two rigs is pretty daunting expensive electricity wise
Correct me if im wrong, but by the way you explained this, if the transcoding is being done streamer side. Won't you need a absolutely massive ISP Upload? And by extension, this will only reward twitch and streamers who already make money & punish streamers with low to zero viewerships.
You practically go from upload streaming 1 resolution to twitch, to restreaming 5 resolutions to twitch simultaneously.
All that aside, keep up the good work Harris 😎
Not really. I have an ISP upload max speed of 25mbps and I am able to stream to CZcams, Twitch, and Kick at the same time ALL at a 6,000 bitrate without much issue. I don't think the upload will have to be very high to take advantage of this new update thankfully. It will mostly depend on your GPU.
@@VicariousNick55 So if you continue to stream to multiple platforms as you're now. You will go from 18,000 bitrate to adding another 4 extra streams on top for twitch's new streamer side transcoding.
If your upload is only 25mb, you wont be able to do everything with the remaining 7,000 bitrate. This is in no way a good thing. Twitch is not doing this to improve the experience, they are doing it to cut costs. Falls right in line with them cutting 500 staff.
Yeah this only seems like a lose lose to me for anyone not already making decent money from streaming. Not to mention the massive increase to barrier of entry with the increased hardware and bandwidth requirements. Well I guess it really depends on how much it impacts those two things, Maybe it's rather minimal or maybe you can split some of the work between CPU and GPU
That is not how that works at all. You're not sending 5 separate transcoding profiles to each stream. It would be ONE per stream (excluding Twitch). So you would be sending one to CZcams, one to Kick, and the other 3 to Twitch (to have 3 different Quality options) @@Propa_Ganda_Panda
@@Propa_Ganda_Panda LTT made a good video about how AV1 encoding and streaming works. It gives better quality at the same bitrate or the same quality at a lower bitrate.
Wut do we gotta do too get 120FPS at 1080p or 1440p? Would be MASSIVE for eSports streams or for anything with fast action.
And yet Twitch had to lay off so many staff this month, so no idea what Twitch is really doing.
Do you happen to know what this implies regarding the streamers PC performance?
With it constantly changing through the auto configuration, will that impact our FPS?
It will impact your FPS. If you stream with your GPU, it already does and it will even more once they do this. It's a great change they are a doing but it is going to cost performance to the streamers.
Hmm so what about the load on the client GPU for all of this? What is the load? Has it been worked out? I play DCS in VR on the Aero so higher than 4k.
If i stream i stream it to 1080p@60 only. So there has to be a hit on the client to this and potentially a high one.
Nvidia GPUs have a separate chipset dedicated to encoding so should be little to no performance impact to client side game perofrmance
so will this only work on obs or can it be used on streamlabs obs aswell
HARRIS DOING GODS WORK.
this is actually very interesting!
Intel Arc graphic cards also have AV1 encoding
Finally thinking about catching up to CZcams 😄
I've converted my Streaming Machine over to an M2 macbook because that macbook is designated as my creative machine and doesn't contain games or anything. Just creative tools. Will this tech to transcode be available for that platform? Or is it only Nvidia 40 series cards? I don't need 4k. I just want to do 1080 and lower really as an affiliate.
I really hope this comes to amd gpus soon
I just hope it comes out of beta soon and for everyone with any card brand. I hate being an AMD user and that my h264 sucks so bad...
Does sending multiple encodings not required more upload bandwidth on the streamers end? My download is 400Mbps but my upload is 11, I can barely handle 1080 with having a buffer for dips in the upload
Yes it Does
So the streamer will need upstream bandwidth for 4k+1440p+1080P+whatever other streams in addition to having the GPU screaming at full throttle? All to save twitch money? Or did I miss something?
Depends if they actually follow though with the pay split change or not. And id' probably re-justify some streamers to use dual PC' setups again.
It’s using the encoding chips. 3080/4080 and 3090/4090 have dual encoder chips. So will the new 4070 ti super.
Plus they’ll be testing out and hopefully pushing out AV1 which means you can drop the bitrate and still maintain quality.
@@giga_bomberBut if Twitch dont transcode, people Need Hardware Decoder in their devices
My 2070 Super is turning 4 this year and I was already considering upgrading to a 4070 Ti Super but this just incentivizes me more to do so. But as stated, if we're taking on all that transcoding ourselves on the creators end, should we be getting paid more? 🤔 It'll be interesting to see what transpires but somehow Twitch just laying off 500 people...I doubt this.
Keep in mind that AMD’s AV1 encoder is on par with Nvidia so if your on a budget go for a rx 7600 or 7600 xt.
Yes and no. Even though it will probably change sometime, I think Twitch's av1 transcoding only works with Nvidia cards currently
So if the transcoding will be client side doesn't that mean you'll need a beefer pc to stream?
A lot less exciting then I thought it would be, in my case using dual pc setup and technically already using hw transcoding before sending it to twitch already. Av1 is nice.
Hmmm, saying that 40 series Nvidia cards is the "only" cards that have AV1 HW encoding is not correct tho. Both AMD and Intel has HW AV1 encoders on them. The cheapest one I think is the Intel Arc 380. Adding a secondary card, like the 380, is way cheaper than a 40series card and would in theory give the same benefits, as long asa the OBS software isent locked to Nvidia.
I love that twitch continues to lead the streaming space. I love CZcams but its still very clear that Twitch is the big guy for streaming and CZcams for videos.
I honestly hope they make 936p a standard resolution. My PC cannot run 1080p setup [even if i had the bitrate for partner and such]. I also wish YT supported 936p. [936p is lowkey the perfect streaming resolution rn in terms of performance for streamer and viewer]
Bro I just said the same thing.What about small streamers that can't afford a 30 or 40 series GPU... .?Or have a pc that not a monster.I stream to youtube in 1080p 60 fps but now that Twitch will use your GPU and your CPU our pc's are gonna work WAYYY harder.....
You didn't tell me to leave my favourite emoji so I don't know what to do down here now
i feel like this will be a multi-year process to get to the point twitch wants to start passing savings onto streamers
1. all streamers will need access to it, non beta
2. there will need to be a lot of generations of cards with this ability on the market with differing price points (ideally one 3 years old)
3. after 1 and 2 twitch will need to go through a transcoder phase out process before re-evaluating their costs
4. twitch might be incentived only to offer the bigger split to those using local transcoding preventing all streamers from getting better splits (only those with enough capital to buy good enough components to build a computer that can game, stream, and transcode)
Great move by twitch, long time off actually seeing money and if they dont wana share it with streamers, they can easily just remove Dan and find a new CEO who didnt promise that.
What? I always can set any quality on any stream. Will this be removed? That would kinda kill a lot of twitch for me as I won't use 1080p to stream over mobile to my phone while outside... I see why they would want to motivate people to do the encoding... but I don't think this will happen. Let's ask him when he streams! :)
Did the intro sound better or was I always skipping it before
yoooooo what?!
So, here's an issue I just now realised I'm going to have.. dual PC streaming.
I run a 3080ti in my gaming rig and a 1080ti in my streaming rig. As twitch was doing all the encoding, my 1080ti was only sending video. I wonder have I inadvertently crippled myself amd should I upgrade to a 40 series card in the streaming rig
My upload speed is 40mbs with a maximum of 50mbs, my upload speed to slow for this when more than one person streaming at once...
soo harris, one feedback from a fellow EU human, i dont understand inches that well so when you show instructions on measurements on your merches, I'm there confused instead 😭Could you add CM measurements too? (writin cos i loved that hoodie lol)
So how many small streamers can afford a 30 series or 40 series to help twitch look better and save money?I stream to CZcams with a GTX 1650 no problem at 1080p 60fps and they do not use my gpu so they pay less.....But like always no one thinks of small streamers. Funny thing is I had my FIRST stream on Twitch yesterday and how will this now affect my small GTX 1650?Will I be ok or should I just end streaming on Twitch???
aint no way having your computer encode 5 streams or 4 or even 3 and upload it all will be good for the streamer - NO WAY- thats so much processing for the graphics card
Certainly a bummer that it's Nvidia only. Last gen AMF encoders came leaps and bounds closer to nvenc last year and their new AV1 is phenomenal. Yet another walled garden move from Nvidia.
That aside, really glad Twitch is finally improving!
It’s just business and it’s things like that as to why Nvidia dominate the market, amd might make great GPUs for the value but people will always pay more if they get access to better features! Now if amd did something like this with kick 🤷🏻♂️ could help both companies grow
@@SIrIvanErection Actually, there is Zero reason its limited to Nvidia if all that is needed is AV1 given both Intel and AMD can also do AV1. This smells like an "Exclusive deal" bullshit for nvidia.
Well then it's up to AMD to start working on their own version of this! Hear is hoping it happens soon
@@VicariousNick55intel had av1 encoding first…
@@_B.C_ no one is denying that but intel gpus had a lot of issues when they first launched! Hopefully the next release will be a lot more competitive from the off
Wonder if you could hack someone's computer and have OBS send twitch an encoded video that isn't what the streamer thinks they're streaming.
Also, maybe a much better quality 1080p stream? Right now with 6000 bitrate they kinda suck.
This might be a legitimately stupid question, but won't this also make the system requirements for the streamer higher? Won't we need better systems to continue to put out the same quality? Or will this not actually impact our end that hard?
If we push our system to the edge now, will this be the straw that breaks it?
WE NEEDED THIS THANK YOU TWITCH! ❤️
I can finally use my AV1 encoder on my RTX 4090 woohoo. CZcams is the only livestream service that allow to 4k and av1. I will say even tho 4k is allowed yt and soon twitch i would probably stick to 1440p 60fps using AV1 hopefully twitch will allow higher bitrate wirh transcoding cost coming down ibhate that 6,000 kbps is recommended and 8,000,kpbs is the capp after that stream will buffer allowing up to atleast 15,000kbps would be nice
For those wandering about AV1 encoder, nvidia did announce 4070 super and 4080 super will come with AV1 4070 being $500 and 4080 being $1000 or less still cheaper then 4090
Of course, if u need a lower bidget card, the intel arc has some for cheap. idk if AMD does yet, tho
Gimme that higher bitrate cuz that 6000 cap is cheeks
more processing on our computers? well that sucks, cause im running on an old 960 :-/
It's nice of Twitch to pass the cost back to streamer... Just update your graphics card to still be able to stream
CEO gonna CEO, He is NOT on our side. Do not forget it!
Buys intel gpu to gain access to early av1 twitch encoding…
Twitch makes it nvidia only first…
But early yet! Ppl need to chill on this a little
Intel Arc has AV1...But more waiting ahead🙄
so is my 3070ti enough or do i need a 4080? the ending confused me ...
You can now encode h264 but not in av1.
You need a 4080
So this wont be doing much for my old gtx 1060 then :( Exciting news nevertheless!
Good luck getting good gaming performance on single PC setups while transcoding multiple streams. Yes I know nvenc is hardware, it's still going to cost. You'd be better off using a dual PC stream setup for this.
Before I say what I’m about to say, I believe that you should almost exclusively use Nvidia over AMD when it comes to any kind of live encoding. With that said, Harris saying that the 40 series GPUs are the only ones that use AV1 is just not true. Both AMD 7000 series and Intel discrete GPUs are able to take advantage of AV1. Now if he is talking specifically about AV1 in the case of this twitch and Nvidia collaboration tech, then I can’t say if he’s necessarily wrong.
You’re right on both statements.
@@Senpai I hope it didn’t seem like I was just raking you over the coals, it just didn’t sit right with me.
not only NVidia gpu all amd gpus use av1
🙌🙌🙌
Don't worry... only the team in charge of passing along those savings was laid off :D (I'll go stand in the corner)
i don't understand the problem with the layoffs, it's 35% of people who worked at twitch but that is a first step to cutting costs, twitter fired a lot of people too, but it is still working.
Also i was thinking of a way twitch could heavily optimize streams. What if twitch did fake streams? 99% of streamers only have 1 viewer which is themselves. You could optimize this heavily. Don't send the stream to twitch if no one is watching and do like a ping every minute to use as thumbnail + to see if the stream is running fine. If one person is watching the stream, don't load it until they press the play button and if it is in the background with the sound on only send the sound. This way only people who have viewers will use bandwith.
I’d rather they get feature parity with yotube live… let us rewind and catch up at 1.5x
In order to do that they would probably have to remove the separation of VOD and Live, and so the live-only copyright music trick would stop working
How can kick afford to transcode for everyone but not twitch..
Niceeeee
Hey Harris, have you deleted a whole boatload of videos from your Twitch channel? Apart from your very latest one, they all seem to be missing, going back about 3 years.
me whos running a 6700 XT and started streaming this week
All while firing 500 ppl lol
A CZcamsr, a Tik Tok'r and a Twich'r walk into a bar... The youtuber likes it, the tik tok'r subscribes and the twitch'r team kills them all before going bankrupt
"ACTUALLY don't use code senpai, they have a way better sale going on right now" 🤣🤣
AV1 now for gods sake :D
This is good news
we'll stick with youtube but wash the crash from afar
What's the point of 4k? Even 1080p footage doesn't look like 1080p due to low bitrate. Even with AV1, there's barely a difference at higher bitrates like 8k. What's 4k at 8k bitrate gonna do for viewers?
AV1 encoding....soooo amd encoding viability????
Meanwhile... on CZcams... you can stream with any encoder for a looong time.
As Always 👍
1080/60 burn your pc down when you stream...
Now imagine streaming 4k LOL
not only 40's have AV1 encoding... you're missing the AMD cards, they all have AV1 encoding. and the intel cards have it as well iirc.
He the ceo you can’t hold him accountable if it’s not good for twitch them self
4k streams is twitch trying to go broke? 4k is a Ton of data
Twitch DOA
To be fair that was not a promise and it could be years, we need to let twitch be profitable or we wont have twitch anymore. They are a company and they owe us NOTHING they could just go under if they do not start bringing in the shareholders money. I want twitch and what it offers more than I want a few more bucks.
If video is fully transcoded by broadcaster, and broadcaster needs to desperately find a way to find and retain audience, what's left for Twitch to do then, exactly? Deliver video to viewers and show chat? Not like they're doing a good job on promoting/supporting small streamers
yeah baby i can watch 12 ads in 4k now... smh... whats that i can spend 1500 even tho i aint making any money of this shit... and i too can have decent videos... win!
The Biggest thing stopping Twitch is Amazon. Twitch doesn't make Amazon any money