Very good video. My biggest issue with brands is they're so secretive of their discontinuations. You have to almost dig to find out if a fragrance is discontinued or not. I really wish these brands would have some respect for their paid customer and let them know when they discontinue one of their products. I.e open public statement on record. So that price is just don't go through the roof based off of a few people on CZcams or Reddit forms saying it's discontinued.
I wonder if its because they want it to stay in stores til the last second. If they said it was discontinued would Macys pull it? Do frags get to the discounters sooner if itâs officially discontinued vs quietly dissapears? (No idea)
Its about shelf space and inventory mgt. If something is discontinued then something needs to fill that space. That product has to have marketing and supply chain ready to coincide with draw downn of inventory. Theres a lot of management there.
It's a long term game of "if you want it, get it now, or risk paying more aftermarket after we discontinue it". When you know a fragrance will be there, you tend to go for the brands or fragrances that might not be there in 2 or 3 years, so it's a bit of a punishment/incentive to buy now or be sorry later.
Wow Justin, your killing it lately - Iâm loving these thought processes. Really makes you think about exactly what we are buying in to. Keep it coming đ
Until rather recently, you could take any designer fragrance and recognize its DNA. I think IFRA and ingredient costs and availability really changed this. Caron smelled like Caron. Guerlain smelled like Guerlain. Chanel was instantly identifiable. I think things shook up a bit when the really âloudâfragrances hit the market: Giorgio, Poison, Opium and then the creativity was unleashed. Marketing also changed and it became clearer that designers could make more money from fragrance than Couture or Ready to Wear.
This is why I'm pretty much done buying fragrances, almost, if not, half of my collection are discontinued frags. What's funny is that most of these discontinuations occurred within the last 5 years or so. It's frustating since now I can't wear them as often as I'd like to without my bottle(s) running out. If I do buy it will be strictly from Acqua di Parma, Tiziana Terenzi, and Bois 1920, since they have interesting frags at prices similar and sometimes lower prices than high end designer fragrances.
You are spot on, it is down right to the economics... I believe the fragrance houses are behaving like the music industry nowadays. Once an artist has a hit, they want to put out as much music from that artist as they can so they can capitalize before the masses find the next best thing. That's why even the fragrance houses have so many flankers from one release and if they don't sell well enough, they pull them off their catalogue.
My guess is maybe simpler. The designer houses have to make a ton more bottles to get to retailers. I wonder how many bottles of ADG are made vs. and Bond etc. so if they want to continue investing in a fragrance, thatâs a hefty investment to get the bottles to multiple retail outlets across the country. Niche houses can alter the number of bottles they may produce if those particular fragrances arenât moving as many units, and hence still offer them. But yes, money over everything as they say đ
So apparently Amouage is the niche exception to the rule, for not only discontinuing Bracken Man, but also Fate Man, Figment Man, Beach Hut Woman, Imitation Man & Woman, Journey Woman and Myths Man⊠Also, some grief for Tom Ford here. *Grief!*
Definitely. But Beach Hut Woman is not continued! Itâs still on the website, as per the screenshot I put on screen. đ I meant to mention this, but their discontinuation is a bit of a special case-they experienced a drastic change in creative direction. So I think that has something to do with it.
@@stayfreshproductions I think that is part of the annoyance: no transparency about the end of life of fragrances. The grapevine was certain Ubar was discontinued but the scent was on the Amouage website like forever. I does not make sense. If you announce EOL, Iâm pretty sure you give a chance to get rid of your stock at full price fast, hence no dumping to the discounters, more profit for the official vendors, and a chance to stock up for the loyal customer base. Why the bleepings all this secrecy?
I think you said in the opening statement it all comes down to" Money" in the designer brands and Niche if a person is paying $375.00 for a bottle they expect that bottle to have the same smell they have become accustomed to.
5:21 This is a really good perspective. I've already decided to stop shopping for designers because of the lack of creativity or performance but now I run the risk of liking a designer and never being able to get a second bottle once I finish my first one. If it's a really good discontinued designer, the prices for the fragrance are going to skyrocket and then at that point I would rather buy another niche fragrance then spend money on an inflated designer.
This makes sense but it's frustrating to fall in love with a fragrance get one bottle and when that bottle is about to finish go to the store only to find out that it's disconued and there's no similar alternatives.
You could write a book on this subject. I feel that one reason why the designers create so many flankers are as follows. Normal people donât keep multiple fragrances like us collectors / niche snobs. They may have 2 or 3 bottles on their dresser. And fragrance actually lasts a long time. So if the normal person is entering a mall and pass by the Dior sauvage they already own they wonât stop to look they have it they know it. But if something they love and use comes out with a new flanker it may catch their interest. Also a designer is looking for the next banger or cult classic if you will and if itâs not working it goes to the trash. A fragrance Such as Rive Gauche which by many consider to be a cult classic has been discontinued because of the ifra refs on Oakmoss and also as good as it is or was it is a very specific scent for a very specific Audience. Once it was sold and sales slowed down it became obsolete. Itâs not until possibly a few years later that the normal person looking to re purchase their favorite Rive Gauche finds out itâs discontinued that they now look for a replacement and hence CZcams is where they go to find a replacement for it where they find this community and then fall into madness looking for unicorns and the next epic scent.
@@mrrob4590 I went to buy a new bottle of Rive Gauche some time ago and saw people trying to make $400 off a bottle. I couldn't believe it. I love Rive Gauche but it can be replaced by Azzaro or Paco Rabanne and it's similar. I've found Opium pour homme to be a good oriental replacement and it's made by the same perfumer. Did you ever find something similar to Rive Gauche?
@@moustachio334 so I have 2 bottle of rive gauche I wear it frequently but a great replacement for it is Duas river fougere. Itâs a perfect replacement for it. In fact itâs better. It lasts significantly longer as itâs an extrait. I highly recommend. I really love it. Also try Mercari and save Rive Gauche on that page and they will notify you when it comes up for sale. I see it come up at the 175 mark.
@@moustachio334 I can also add that in the mall by me on Long Island there is a kiosk in the center of the mall that has has a few bottles of Rive Gauche intense. Since your most likely not on Long Island perhaps you could google search scents of time in the bayshore mall and try to contact the owner. I believe he was asking 175. Still high but not 400 dollars. Perhaps he will mail it to you. And check similar Kiosks in malls by you. Sometimes they have new old stock of discontinued frags.
That is the million dollar question? Why? JC!! Great video!! I don't mind the discontinuation of frags, that way if I don't have, I can save my money! Lol...But in fragcomm, your recommendations have lead me to some amazing purchases!! Thanks fam!! Miami Duppy, TOB, Ganymede, Noir Ambre just to name a few!
This is why I've learned to stick to the classics that have survived twenty or thirty years. The day YSL L'homme and LaNuit are discontinued is gonna hurt. I'm hoping I will be able to buy into the Les Vestiaire line but I just know. I just know.
I just wanted to understand why Juicy Couture discontinued "Sucre" and thiscame on time. Thank you for your research because it gave me alot of clarity
My thing has been, since I've been in this industry and have made observations, is that a lot of discontinuations have to do with either a) testing the waters of a new fragrance profile and cutting it if it doesn't sell (as you mentioned) or b) letting go of a "older" formulation scent to make way for a stronger flanker or "newer" version of a scent based upon what is currently in the market, ala Montblanc Legend and Legend Intense (which was discontinued), but later making a Montblanc Legend EDP, for example. As you said, it is based on money. Plus, nowadays, the market is flooded with flankers and "higher concentrations" of fragrances just for the company to make another dollar. Just look at the range of Sauvage, Bleu de Chanel, Versace Eros, and One Million fragrances, for example. I'm telling you now: 2023-2024 is going to be the period of the "Elixir" fragrances because Dior started it and now everyone wants a piece of the "Elixir" pie because it "sounds attractive." It's just too much to deal with with discontinuations, yet they keep releasing all this new, half-watered stuff into the market just to get some dollars. It's just upsetting, personally.
Also, I'm starting to notice some "niche" brands starting to take more of a designer / mass-appealing approach to their fragrances somewhat, based on the brand. I think it is like the video game industry with all of the "Dark Souls"-like games and other titles that kind of take the "safe route," in which companies can no longer take risks on games or else they are afraid that the games won't sell and the company will be out of revenue. That's why indie games are so popular now, like Tango Gameworks "Hi-Fi Rush," for example. Same for fragrances in which some brands don't want to take creative risks for fear that the mass market won't like a fragrance and then it's like money down the drain.
Great content as always, my brother. I definitely agree with almost every point you've touched on. The only thing I'd add is that I've found some Designers (like YSL) tend to Discontinue a fragrance a lot more than others.
Imagine if Giorgio Armani discontinued Aqua Di Gio, or Creed discontinued Green Irish Tweed early when they first came out. You would think these other fragrance houses would learn something from some of the best selling fragrances of all time. The reason those fragrances were able to becoming some of the best sellers was because they werenât discontinued after only a couple of years being out. It also is a good indicator that these brands are not listening to consumers about what fragrances they really like. When you look at the list of some of the great scents that have been discontinued, itâs mind blowing. Smh.
Some great points. And itâs not that brands arenât listening to consumers, is that theyâre not concerned with the CZcams space. Although growing in number, we are still the minority in relation to the average buyer population.
@@stayfreshproductions Thatâs a good observation. Most people are not on the youtube frag space educating themselves about fragrances. But for the ones that are, we have to speak louder to these designers and let them know that there are people actually paying attention to things like reformulations and discontinuations. And for the brands that are popular, really making an effort to let them know there are consumers that miss items theyâve discontinued. I truly believe that the frag community can have the influence to resurrect some lost gems if we do.
Another thoughtful and well-presented analysis. Admittedly, I do not follow many designers very closely because I have been buying fragrances for decades and I now tend to appreciate qualities like blending, uniqueness and note authenticity. As far as guys go, I have to wonder if the designer market tends to cater to a younger and/or less discriminating market. Niche brands tend to - but not always - understand their market, also. People who seek a more individual frag persona, who are likely to have discretionary income and who will become brand loyal over the long haul. The gateways are faithful indicators. I can think of several niche brands off the top, e.g., Nishane, Memo Paris and Roja Dove, with which that was my personal experience. Not so much with designers now but in the past, i.e., mid-70s through early aughts, much more so. I would blind buy anything produced by P. Rabanne, C. Klein, Cartier, Van Cleef, etc., but that was when they were consistently creating icons not disrupted so much by IFRA.
You just said it, there is a scientific financial and economic factors - major one is something called economic of scale - that niche brands managements aren't fully aware of. Overall, it's all about supply and demand mechanisms/laws that linked to the production and operation costs.
I see what you mean Justin. However, I don't understand the discontinuation pattern that for example Gucci has been following since the 1990s. Gucci Nobile: one of the best Fougere scents I have ever smelled, Gucci Envy: a beautiful plethora of fruits and flowers backed with sandalwood, Gucci pour Homme (2003): a beautiful elegant and sophisticated scent that probably set the bar for modern sweet ambery perfumes, Gucci pour Homme II: an amazing mix of spices, resins, tobacco and that citrus opening that stays wafting though that sweetness. They were all big hits as far as I remember and surely had strong and unique character as well as being quiet easy to wear. I do understand why they would discontinue Gucci Guilty Absolute because it is polarizing and not for everyone (I love it). Other perfumes that I really miss and don't quiet believe that economics was the reason are: Ricci Club, Memoir D'Homme (both from Nina Ricci) and the Classic Van Cleef & Arpels pour homme. One that I do think was polarizing and probably didn't do that well is Beyond Paradise from Este Lauder: citruses, a ton of flowers and amber, very unusual, never smelled anything like it, but I went through 2 bottles of it before it was discontinued.
In some surveys I had checked recently, the US is a lot low on the charts when it comes to countries that really use fragrances. That might also be a reason why some fragrances are sometimes hard to find in the US market.
There are A LOT of reasons, I could probably give 10, but I put some thought into it and here are some that I came up with: 1. Poor margins on the final product due to higher input costs. 2. Lack of sales success relative to either the top offerings from the brand or even top sellers in the same line (think L'Heure Verte vs. Angels' Share) 3. Change in consumer trends, e.g. currently we appear to be trending towards calling everything unisex and trying to actually have scents that smell like it. 4. Competition bringing improvement, e.g. Erba Pura to God of Fire/Nocturna, Aventus to Hacivat/Morning Chess, even Spicebomb to Rehab.
I think the current trend has a lot to do with this as well. If you have 4 competing designer houses who are all trying to come out with the next great blue fragrance, one of those houses may very well discontinue their offering if it's not selling and move on to something else. Where as niche brands most times tend to be less concerned with what's popular, and can be (and should be) an escape from the current trend. From 2014-2016 alone, you have the releases of Blue de Chanel, Y, Sauvage, and Dylan Blue - while at the same time, you have the release of Zoologist's Bat.
Personally I think good is subjective. A lot of the loved discontinued designers like Bleu Electrique, Luna Rossa black, LâHomme ideal cologne, I find to be quite overrated. But yes I agree that designer houses have way more fragrance turnover, itâs due to their resources and demand. So much money is around to spend on new creations that old ones need to go away, with so many eyes watching these huge brands for their next release. They have a market to fill
Even though I like lhomme ideal cologne and Luna Rossa black I agree they are overrated. Bleu electrique is so good, though, I just donât get it unless itâs supply chain issues
Designers def do it more often... now I've debated if it's because of lack of certain ingredients after a while or they are trying to bring out something new and they wanna create a big boom with that. I've noticed designers in particular will water down the EDT/EDPs when they bring out a flanker that's 1 up for the concentration... which I think is dumb because usually they do smell different but to the casual fragrance buyer they need the "it performs better" reason to really pull the trigger over the EDT or EDP - not "it smells different and/or better"... It's frustrating as a frag head but I understand it from a business model standpoint. This is also a reason you see less niche brands discontinued fragrances because of the demographics they are targeting - usually more wealthy people who dont mind buying each new flanker or concentration due to money not really being a factor for them when buying fragrances. The other demographic is us, collector and/or people who truly appreciate the quality, artistry behind it all, and those of us who don't have rookie noses and can appreciate the differences even though it may have the same DNA. Slightly off topic - Do you know if they are discontinuing or have just run low on ingredients to make Creed Royal Oud? I've noticed it becoming significantly more expensive and harder to find this year. My fav from the house but not at the prices they got right now.
Great points. đđŸ Iâm not sure about Royal OudâŠas long as itâs listed on Creedâs website, it should still be in production (I havenât checked).
Great video and I agree with you 100%. Great video though. I also think designers like to make that fast money off flankers then discontinue them once sales slow down.
Another element is when a new creative director comes in they look down on a popular line just because it wasn't theirs, and they want to include rolling out a new fragrance as part of their campaign and the brand will only support production for X number of fragrances.
Thereâs more consolidation happening in the beauty market than ever before and all that matters to them is making the acquisition accretive so they can justify the transaction cost. The easiest way to do that is to reformulate and be brutal when it comes to individual fragrance sales numbers. Not performing at a certain level then cancel it. Most fragrance buyers are not sophisticated fragheads and therefore are not generally aware of these issues. We feel it more because we care more.
It's just a big shame that in the fragcom that some of the darlings are discontinued due too IMHO they are not as popular in the mainstream market which comes down to sales eg gucci guilty absolute, aqva amara, l'homme ideal colonge
It'd be awesome if a content creator with some pull phoned up a couple of brands or conglomerates, asked to speak with a rep or business manager and cleared this whole thing up n'est ce-pas? đ A good sit-down interview on camera would be even better! But then a part of me wonders whether or not we'd get the truth, or just a standard noncommittal PR response to placate the audience and "assure" them that everything is wonderful. đ And they have their best people on it. Still a lot of haughty secrets in the industry I'm sure.
Good video for considering a topic that not alot of reviewers talk about. Discontinuation is very frustrating for the consumer. I was wondering Justin if you agree with me on this: do you think that some discontinuations occur with future re-release in mind? What I mean is that some fragrances like tobacco oud from TF are very popular. TF discontinued it. Now if they re-release it this fall I could only imagine the hype and high sale volume that would occur. I understand if a fragrance isn't making money to discontinue it, but it seems that all to often popular, loved fragrances are being discontinued.
Tom Ford famous for it! Tobacco Oud intense, stunning and guess what??? Pulled! Just think in general if they ainât making money on it, they ainât gonna keep producing it!!
I think there is a big disconnect between what the fragrances enthusiasts like vs the fragrances the masses like. Since the enthusiasts represent a small % of the fragrance buying population, it's highly likely that any fragrance that enthusiasts like will be discontinued unless the masses can appreciate it as well.
This is why I don't support Perfumes Absolute/Extreme/Intense, Elixirs and all the whole other 'flankery' of today. Just sticking with the original EDT or maybe the EDP concentration. These products have the longest life expectation because they are often cheaper and kinda timeless. Many of the Elixirs will be gone and forgottwn in a few years. Stronger With You EDT > Le Male Elixir, 1 Million Elixir, Invictus Victory Elixir...
To me the discontinuations and reformulations look like an attempt to herd the masses into buying the new thing, which has yet to recoup its production cost at the moment it's released. For instance, UltraMale was reformulated into something not much stronger than cucumber water when Le Male Le Parfum was being developed, and many other examples exist. I could be wrong, but it's something I've thought about. As far as what i buy, I've taken the 'fewer, more expensive scents' approach. I have 3-4 that I use a lot and I just pay more for the good stuff. They smell great, perform well, and should be around for a number of years yet. When i run out of a bottle, I investigate alternatives just to keep things from getting boring.
Look what happened to Fahrenheit edt when they released the Parfum. They really made the Edt weaker to make the parfum stronger. Now that the parfum is impossible to get, I'm never buying Dior.
@@thetutta4 Tom ford should to a scent that smells almost like Gucci Envy. Maybe call it: shove it Gucci, I made my own. I would but it . He can even make a flanker: Shove it Gucci, I made my own Sport. Ha ha ha
I always think designer brands do it to themselves when they go flanker crazy. They are making their own overlap then see what sells and cut anything that doesnât. Personally i think it just shows that the designer brands in pushing the envelope. Niche brands seem slightly less interested in the trend of the moment (overall). They have more riding on the success of their fragrances so theres more incentive to leave them on the market. Worst case is they unload a trucks worth to a reseller on the gray market.
Kitteh!! I wonder how much of a role the discount market influences discontinuations. Maybe a significant portion of the market waits for a fragrance to hit discounters to make a purchase. Retailers lose money. Fragrances get discontinued. Thoughts?
I think in most cases, the stock that hits the discounters is the minority (unless the fragrance completely bombed on the retail market). The majority of fragrance buyers in the designer market is also the general population-not us fragheads believe it or not đ
The one and only thing that pisses me off about this topic is that there is no transparency for the customer. There is never an official statement from the fragrance House as to why the discontinuation happens in this industry. I obviously don't like being in the dark about things when there is no valid reason to keep that information hidden. It's not as if people are spontaneously combusting whilst applying a fragrance so they discontinue and also try to conceal the reason why it was discontinued. Just fucking tell us, we're not going to collapse into the fetal position and die.
Would you do another about why the hell do they destroy their existing perfumes? I mean first edition is so strong and projecting and it gets formulated and becomes $hit. Could be to make us spray and buy more? Well this only makes me lose trust and have sour taste in my mouth.
I'm still bitter about 1 million prive getting discontinued. I tried to find it for a year before it was officially announced that it was discontinued. So many cancelled orders. đą I figure it must have sucked up too much oxygen and they couldn't successfully launch the next 1 million royal elixir parfum++ flanker. đ
I was going to mention YSL Bleu Electrique, but you covered it. They also have Babycat that is a huge hit, but they aren't releasing that one in North America either. What the hell is up with that? Come on, YSL. Edit: Sammy W said, "It just doesn't make scents." I thought that was funny.
@@stayfreshproductions I wonder if it is some kind of distribution issue. Maybe YSL is withholding some of their newer releases as a negotiating tactic for better distribution terms, or maybe their currently trying to find a new distributor or something. Otherwise, this just doesn't make any sense.
Since I started watching videos on fragrances, I have always wondered why when they hold up the bottle, it's always held at an angle? Is it because of lighting, and or focus?
Yea Valentino Aqua is the one that I enjoyed the most for a designer that made me question whatâs really going on. Imo itâs the best release so what happened? I have no idea
Hello Justin, how are you? Great job as usual on the video and content. BEAR WITH ME đ "! YOUR SENSE OF HUMOR IS SIMILAR TO MINE BUT IT ADDS TO THE CONTENT. STAY SAFE BROTHER AND HI TO GRACE
Yo justin ive been watching you for a while and have rlly fallen in love with fragrances, yet i find myself in this strange addiction often resulting in stress or some sort of anxiousness, how did u come to have such a healthy relationship with this hobby? id love to know Preciate it
Itâs about slowing down and appreciating what you have. The addiction does not lie in loving fragrances, it lies in acquiring new things. Many of us go through this. Itâs the fear of missing out. You just need to realize that youâre not missing anything by not buying. Also, establishing a monthly budget can be helpful. You need to chart out all of your expenses in relation to your income, and section off a small part of it to fragrance. Or maybe not even every month, perhaps every other. This can keep you honest with yourself.
Hey Justin (or anyone else), this is unrelated but is there a good place to sample Timbuktu? I hear you talk about it alot and the note breakdown looks like my style but I can't find a sample anywhere. Please help
Discontinuation is much better than reformulating fragrances. Top brands now are reformulating their top sellers fragrances and consumers are deceived by buying for a Frangrance that used to be good. Such as: Aventus, Layton, Spicebomb, Tere D'Hermes, and many more :(
I think a lot of it can be legalities as well. Maybe a perfumer signed a 2 year sales contract and had no interest in doing business with the designer house anymore then took his creations with him.
Very good video.
My biggest issue with brands is they're so secretive of their discontinuations. You have to almost dig to find out if a fragrance is discontinued or not. I really wish these brands would have some respect for their paid customer and let them know when they discontinue one of their products. I.e open public statement on record. So that price is just don't go through the roof based off of a few people on CZcams or Reddit forms saying it's discontinued.
It's true, and sometimes fragrances are only discontinued in certain areas of the world and not others, it's never very clear what's going on
I wonder if its because they want it to stay in stores til the last second. If they said it was discontinued would Macys pull it? Do frags get to the discounters sooner if itâs officially discontinued vs quietly dissapears? (No idea)
Its about shelf space and inventory mgt. If something is discontinued then something needs to fill that space. That product has to have marketing and supply chain ready to coincide with draw downn of inventory. Theres a lot of management there.
Thank you. I agree.
It's a long term game of "if you want it, get it now, or risk paying more aftermarket after we discontinue it". When you know a fragrance will be there, you tend to go for the brands or fragrances that might not be there in 2 or 3 years, so it's a bit of a punishment/incentive to buy now or be sorry later.
Wow Justin, your killing it lately - Iâm loving these thought processes. Really makes you think about exactly what we are buying in to. Keep it coming đ
Thank you Mark!
Until rather recently, you could take any designer fragrance and recognize its DNA. I think IFRA and ingredient costs and availability really changed this. Caron smelled like Caron. Guerlain smelled like Guerlain. Chanel was instantly identifiable. I think things shook up a bit when the really âloudâfragrances hit the market: Giorgio, Poison, Opium and then the creativity was unleashed. Marketing also changed and it became clearer that designers could make more money from fragrance than Couture or Ready to Wear.
This is why I'm pretty much done buying fragrances, almost, if not, half of my collection are discontinued frags. What's funny is that most of these discontinuations occurred within the last 5 years or so. It's frustating since now I can't wear them as often as I'd like to without my bottle(s) running out. If I do buy it will be strictly from Acqua di Parma, Tiziana Terenzi, and Bois 1920, since they have interesting frags at prices similar and sometimes lower prices than high end designer fragrances.
You are spot on, it is down right to the economics... I believe the fragrance houses are behaving like the music industry nowadays. Once an artist has a hit, they want to put out as much music from that artist as they can so they can capitalize before the masses find the next best thing. That's why even the fragrance houses have so many flankers from one release and if they don't sell well enough, they pull them off their catalogue.
My guess is maybe simpler. The designer houses have to make a ton more bottles to get to retailers.
I wonder how many bottles of ADG are made vs. and Bond etc. so if they want to continue investing in a fragrance, thatâs a hefty investment to get the bottles to multiple retail outlets across the country.
Niche houses can alter the number of bottles they may produce if those particular fragrances arenât moving as many units, and hence still offer them.
But yes, money over everything as they say đ
So apparently Amouage is the niche exception to the rule, for not only discontinuing Bracken Man, but also Fate Man, Figment Man, Beach Hut Woman, Imitation Man & Woman, Journey Woman and Myths Man⊠Also, some grief for Tom Ford here. *Grief!*
Definitely. But Beach Hut Woman is not continued! Itâs still on the website, as per the screenshot I put on screen. đ
I meant to mention this, but their discontinuation is a bit of a special case-they experienced a drastic change in creative direction. So I think that has something to do with it.
@@stayfreshproductions I think that is part of the annoyance: no transparency about the end of life of fragrances. The grapevine was certain Ubar was discontinued but the scent was on the Amouage website like forever. I does not make sense. If you announce EOL, Iâm pretty sure you give a chance to get rid of your stock at full price fast, hence no dumping to the discounters, more profit for the official vendors, and a chance to stock up for the loyal customer base. Why the bleepings all this secrecy?
I think you said in the opening statement it all comes down to" Money" in the designer brands and Niche if a person is paying $375.00 for a bottle they expect that bottle to have the same smell they have become accustomed to.
5:21 This is a really good perspective. I've already decided to stop shopping for designers because of the lack of creativity or performance but now I run the risk of liking a designer and never being able to get a second bottle once I finish my first one. If it's a really good discontinued designer, the prices for the fragrance are going to skyrocket and then at that point I would rather buy another niche fragrance then spend money on an inflated designer.
Great video, you pretty much hit all the topics, it would be cool if companies told the consumer, that a fragrance was about to he discontinued.
I think the latest casualty is Dior Homme intense...ugh...
This makes sense but it's frustrating to fall in love with a fragrance get one bottle and when that bottle is about to finish go to the store only to find out that it's disconued and there's no similar alternatives.
If you are not in marketing/advertising, you should be. You have a good sense of awareness.
Thank you Justin đđŸ
You could write a book on this subject. I feel that one reason why the designers create so many flankers are as follows.
Normal people donât keep multiple fragrances like us collectors / niche snobs. They may have 2 or 3 bottles on their dresser. And fragrance actually lasts a long time. So if the normal person is entering a mall and pass by the Dior sauvage they already own they wonât stop to look they have it they know it. But if something they love and use comes out with a new flanker it may catch their interest.
Also a designer is looking for the next banger or cult classic if you will and if itâs not working it goes to the trash.
A fragrance Such as Rive Gauche which by many consider to be a cult classic has been discontinued because of the ifra refs on Oakmoss and also as good as it is or was it is a very specific scent for a very specific Audience. Once it was sold and sales slowed down it became obsolete. Itâs not until possibly a few years later that the normal person looking to re purchase their favorite Rive Gauche finds out itâs discontinued that they now look for a replacement and hence CZcams is where they go to find a replacement for it where they find this community and then fall into madness looking for unicorns and the next epic scent.
You summed up my life. Are you me?
@@moustachio334 lol no Iâm not you. But if your reading posts and comments on this subject we could be distant cousins lol.
@@mrrob4590 I went to buy a new bottle of Rive Gauche some time ago and saw people trying to make $400 off a bottle. I couldn't believe it. I love Rive Gauche but it can be replaced by Azzaro or Paco Rabanne and it's similar. I've found Opium pour homme to be a good oriental replacement and it's made by the same perfumer. Did you ever find something similar to Rive Gauche?
@@moustachio334 so I have 2 bottle of rive gauche I wear it frequently but a great replacement for it is Duas river fougere. Itâs a perfect replacement for it. In fact itâs better. It lasts significantly longer as itâs an extrait. I highly recommend. I really love it. Also try Mercari and save Rive Gauche on that page and they will notify you when it comes up for sale. I see it come up at the 175 mark.
@@moustachio334 I can also add that in the mall by me on Long Island there is a kiosk in the center of the mall that has has a few bottles of Rive Gauche intense. Since your most likely not on Long Island perhaps you could google search scents of time in the bayshore mall and try to contact the owner. I believe he was asking 175. Still high but not 400 dollars. Perhaps he will mail it to you. And check similar Kiosks in malls by you. Sometimes they have new old stock of discontinued frags.
That is the million dollar question? Why? JC!! Great video!! I don't mind the discontinuation of frags, that way if I don't have, I can save my money! Lol...But in fragcomm, your recommendations have lead me to some amazing purchases!! Thanks fam!! Miami Duppy, TOB, Ganymede, Noir Ambre just to name a few!
This is why I've learned to stick to the classics that have survived twenty or thirty years. The day YSL L'homme and LaNuit are discontinued is gonna hurt. I'm hoping I will be able to buy into the Les Vestiaire line but I just know. I just know.
I just wanted to understand why Juicy Couture discontinued "Sucre" and thiscame on time. Thank you for your research because it gave me alot of clarity
So true especially with Amouage..strong, smooth , super classy ,surprsingly wearable and versatile across the boardđđđ
My thing has been, since I've been in this industry and have made observations, is that a lot of discontinuations have to do with either a) testing the waters of a new fragrance profile and cutting it if it doesn't sell (as you mentioned) or b) letting go of a "older" formulation scent to make way for a stronger flanker or "newer" version of a scent based upon what is currently in the market, ala Montblanc Legend and Legend Intense (which was discontinued), but later making a Montblanc Legend EDP, for example. As you said, it is based on money. Plus, nowadays, the market is flooded with flankers and "higher concentrations" of fragrances just for the company to make another dollar. Just look at the range of Sauvage, Bleu de Chanel, Versace Eros, and One Million fragrances, for example. I'm telling you now: 2023-2024 is going to be the period of the "Elixir" fragrances because Dior started it and now everyone wants a piece of the "Elixir" pie because it "sounds attractive." It's just too much to deal with with discontinuations, yet they keep releasing all this new, half-watered stuff into the market just to get some dollars. It's just upsetting, personally.
Also, I'm starting to notice some "niche" brands starting to take more of a designer / mass-appealing approach to their fragrances somewhat, based on the brand. I think it is like the video game industry with all of the "Dark Souls"-like games and other titles that kind of take the "safe route," in which companies can no longer take risks on games or else they are afraid that the games won't sell and the company will be out of revenue. That's why indie games are so popular now, like Tango Gameworks "Hi-Fi Rush," for example. Same for fragrances in which some brands don't want to take creative risks for fear that the mass market won't like a fragrance and then it's like money down the drain.
Great content as always, my brother. I definitely agree with almost every point you've touched on. The only thing I'd add is that I've found some Designers (like YSL) tend to Discontinue a fragrance a lot more than others.
I miss Prada Amber Pour Homme. Good thing it wasnât too popular and you can still find it here and there online.
Itâs not the same now
Imagine if Giorgio Armani discontinued Aqua Di Gio, or Creed discontinued Green Irish Tweed early when they first came out. You would think these other fragrance houses would learn something from some of the best selling fragrances of all time.
The reason those fragrances were able to becoming some of the best sellers was because they werenât discontinued after only a couple of years being out.
It also is a good indicator that these brands are not listening to consumers about what fragrances they really like. When you look at the list of some of the great scents that have been discontinued, itâs mind blowing. Smh.
Some great points.
And itâs not that brands arenât listening to consumers, is that theyâre not concerned with the CZcams space. Although growing in number, we are still the minority in relation to the average buyer population.
@@stayfreshproductions Thatâs a good observation. Most people are not on the youtube frag space educating themselves about fragrances.
But for the ones that are, we have to speak louder to these designers and let them know that there are people actually paying attention to things like reformulations and discontinuations. And for the brands that are popular, really making an effort to let them know there are consumers that miss items theyâve discontinued. I truly believe that the frag community can have the influence to resurrect some lost gems if we do.
I think what's ironic about this is that in the case of Bleu Ă©lectrique, it was the best LNDL flanker in quite some time (IMHO anyway). đ€·ââFor a while it seemed like everyone was moving to the niche market out of boredom of the designer world and now the niche world is getting the same way at times with oud fragrances. Also, you mentioned "olfactory signatures", that's so true. I think that's probably where the controversy around Amouage these days stems from, the fact that there is such a departure from Chong's to Salmon's artistic signature; that cohesion you mentioned is replaced by pretty much schism between old and new rather than natural evolution.
I agree-the change in creative direction has had a substantial affect on their aesthetic.
Another thoughtful and well-presented analysis. Admittedly, I do not follow many designers very closely because I have been buying fragrances for decades and I now tend to appreciate qualities like blending, uniqueness and note authenticity. As far as guys go, I have to wonder if the designer market tends to cater to a younger and/or less discriminating market. Niche brands tend to - but not always - understand their market, also. People who seek a more individual frag persona, who are likely to have discretionary income and who will become brand loyal over the long haul. The gateways are faithful indicators. I can think of several niche brands off the top, e.g., Nishane, Memo Paris and Roja Dove, with which that was my personal experience. Not so much with designers now but in the past, i.e., mid-70s through early aughts, much more so. I would blind buy anything produced by P. Rabanne, C. Klein, Cartier, Van Cleef, etc., but that was when they were consistently creating icons not disrupted so much by IFRA.
Thanks for watching. Great points.
You just said it, there is a scientific financial and economic factors - major one is something called economic of scale - that niche brands managements aren't fully aware of. Overall, it's all about supply and demand mechanisms/laws that linked to the production and operation costs.
I see what you mean Justin. However, I don't understand the discontinuation pattern that for example Gucci has been following since the 1990s. Gucci Nobile: one of the best Fougere scents I have ever smelled, Gucci Envy: a beautiful plethora of fruits and flowers backed with sandalwood, Gucci pour Homme (2003): a beautiful elegant and sophisticated scent that probably set the bar for modern sweet ambery perfumes, Gucci pour Homme II: an amazing mix of spices, resins, tobacco and that citrus opening that stays wafting though that sweetness. They were all big hits as far as I remember and surely had strong and unique character as well as being quiet easy to wear. I do understand why they would discontinue Gucci Guilty Absolute because it is polarizing and not for everyone (I love it). Other perfumes that I really miss and don't quiet believe that economics was the reason are: Ricci Club, Memoir D'Homme (both from Nina Ricci) and the Classic Van Cleef & Arpels pour homme. One that I do think was polarizing and probably didn't do that well is Beyond Paradise from Este Lauder: citruses, a ton of flowers and amber, very unusual, never smelled anything like it, but I went through 2 bottles of it before it was discontinued.
Itâs definitely confusing!
In some surveys I had checked recently, the US is a lot low on the charts when it comes to countries that really use fragrances. That might also be a reason why some fragrances are sometimes hard to find in the US market.
There are A LOT of reasons, I could probably give 10, but I put some thought into it and here are some that I came up with:
1. Poor margins on the final product due to higher input costs.
2. Lack of sales success relative to either the top offerings from the brand or even top sellers in the same line (think L'Heure Verte vs. Angels' Share)
3. Change in consumer trends, e.g. currently we appear to be trending towards calling everything unisex and trying to actually have scents that smell like it.
4. Competition bringing improvement, e.g. Erba Pura to God of Fire/Nocturna, Aventus to Hacivat/Morning Chess, even Spicebomb to Rehab.
Totally valid, and I agree. However, do you believe that all of these reasons affect the niche market the same way they do the designer market?
Excelente contenido felicitaciones un gran aporte hablando con la verdad se siente la transparencia que enriquece tus comentarios de altura.
I think the current trend has a lot to do with this as well. If you have 4 competing designer houses who are all trying to come out with the next great blue fragrance, one of those houses may very well discontinue their offering if it's not selling and move on to something else. Where as niche brands most times tend to be less concerned with what's popular, and can be (and should be) an escape from the current trend.
From 2014-2016 alone, you have the releases of Blue de Chanel, Y, Sauvage, and Dylan Blue - while at the same time, you have the release of Zoologist's Bat.
I have been wondering why fragrances have a 'DNA' of a certain brand. Thank you for clearing that up. đ€
Itâs one of my favorite things! đ
Personally I think good is subjective. A lot of the loved discontinued designers like Bleu Electrique, Luna Rossa black, LâHomme ideal cologne, I find to be quite overrated. But yes I agree that designer houses have way more fragrance turnover, itâs due to their resources and demand. So much money is around to spend on new creations that old ones need to go away, with so many eyes watching these huge brands for their next release. They have a market to fill
Even though I like lhomme ideal cologne and Luna Rossa black I agree they are overrated. Bleu electrique is so good, though, I just donât get it unless itâs supply chain issues
Designers def do it more often... now I've debated if it's because of lack of certain ingredients after a while or they are trying to bring out something new and they wanna create a big boom with that. I've noticed designers in particular will water down the EDT/EDPs when they bring out a flanker that's 1 up for the concentration... which I think is dumb because usually they do smell different but to the casual fragrance buyer they need the "it performs better" reason to really pull the trigger over the EDT or EDP - not "it smells different and/or better"... It's frustrating as a frag head but I understand it from a business model standpoint.
This is also a reason you see less niche brands discontinued fragrances because of the demographics they are targeting - usually more wealthy people who dont mind buying each new flanker or concentration due to money not really being a factor for them when buying fragrances. The other demographic is us, collector and/or people who truly appreciate the quality, artistry behind it all, and those of us who don't have rookie noses and can appreciate the differences even though it may have the same DNA.
Slightly off topic - Do you know if they are discontinuing or have just run low on ingredients to make Creed Royal Oud? I've noticed it becoming significantly more expensive and harder to find this year. My fav from the house but not at the prices they got right now.
Great points. đđŸ
Iâm not sure about Royal OudâŠas long as itâs listed on Creedâs website, it should still be in production (I havenât checked).
Great video and I agree with you 100%. Great video though. I also think designers like to make that fast money off flankers then discontinue them once sales slow down.
Acqua di Gio Profumo, Bleu Electrique, Code Absolu etc.
How to get them discontinued
Another element is when a new creative director comes in they look down on a popular line just because it wasn't theirs, and they want to include rolling out a new fragrance as part of their campaign and the brand will only support production for X number of fragrances.
Another well critically thought out piece. Hopefully consumers will come across this video to help balance out their diet of fragrances clips.
Thereâs more consolidation happening in the beauty market than ever before and all that matters to them is making the acquisition accretive so they can justify the transaction cost. The easiest way to do that is to reformulate and be brutal when it comes to individual fragrance sales numbers. Not performing at a certain level then cancel it. Most fragrance buyers are not sophisticated fragheads and therefore are not generally aware of these issues. We feel it more because we care more.
Great pointsâŠ
Doesn't make scents!..... I had to lol
đ
It's just a big shame that in the fragcom that some of the darlings are discontinued due too IMHO they are not as popular in the mainstream market which comes down to sales eg gucci guilty absolute, aqva amara, l'homme ideal colonge
It'd be awesome if a content creator with some pull phoned up a couple of brands or conglomerates, asked to speak with a rep or business manager and cleared this whole thing up n'est ce-pas? đ A good sit-down interview on camera would be even better! But then a part of me wonders whether or not we'd get the truth, or just a standard noncommittal PR response to placate the audience and "assure" them that everything is wonderful. đ And they have their best people on it. Still a lot of haughty secrets in the industry I'm sure.
Haha thatâd be nice.
Good video for considering a topic that not alot of reviewers talk about. Discontinuation is very frustrating for the consumer. I was wondering Justin if you agree with me on this: do you think that some discontinuations occur with future re-release in mind? What I mean is that some fragrances like tobacco oud from TF are very popular. TF discontinued it. Now if they re-release it this fall I could only imagine the hype and high sale volume that would occur. I understand if a fragrance isn't making money to discontinue it, but it seems that all to often popular, loved fragrances are being discontinued.
Tom Ford famous for it! Tobacco Oud intense, stunning and guess what??? Pulled! Just think in general if they ainât making money on it, they ainât gonna keep producing it!!
The deal with Bleu Electrique makes no sense at all. It is probably the most desired unobtanium in these parts.
Babycat is another unobtanium that YSL has decided not to sell in North America for some reason. What are they doing?
I think there is a big disconnect between what the fragrances enthusiasts like vs the fragrances the masses like. Since the enthusiasts represent a small % of the fragrance buying population, it's highly likely that any fragrance that enthusiasts like will be discontinued unless the masses can appreciate it as well.
Agreed.
This is why I don't support Perfumes Absolute/Extreme/Intense, Elixirs and all the whole other 'flankery' of today.
Just sticking with the original EDT or maybe the EDP concentration.
These products have the longest life expectation because they are often cheaper and kinda timeless.
Many of the Elixirs will be gone and forgottwn in a few years.
Stronger With You EDT > Le Male Elixir, 1 Million Elixir, Invictus Victory Elixir...
I didnât know braken man was discontinued đ§ i love that fragrance
I do too. Doesnât appear to be on their website!
To me the discontinuations and reformulations look like an attempt to herd the masses into buying the new thing, which has yet to recoup its production cost at the moment it's released. For instance, UltraMale was reformulated into something not much stronger than cucumber water when Le Male Le Parfum was being developed, and many other examples exist. I could be wrong, but it's something I've thought about. As far as what i buy, I've taken the 'fewer, more expensive scents' approach. I have 3-4 that I use a lot and I just pay more for the good stuff. They smell great, perform well, and should be around for a number of years yet. When i run out of a bottle, I investigate alternatives just to keep things from getting boring.
Look what happened to Fahrenheit edt when they released the Parfum. They really made the Edt weaker to make the parfum stronger. Now that the parfum is impossible to get, I'm never buying Dior.
Why oh why did GUCCI ENVY FOR MEN get discontinued??? WHY ?????????????????????????
I believe it has something to do with Tom Ford leaving Gucci
@@thetutta4 Tom ford should to a scent that smells almost like Gucci Envy. Maybe call it: shove it Gucci, I made my own. I would but it . He can even make a flanker: Shove it Gucci, I made my own Sport. Ha ha ha
Gucci Pour Homme II as well!
Iâm still upset straight to heaven extreme was discontinued
I always think designer brands do it to themselves when they go flanker crazy. They are making their own overlap then see what sells and cut anything that doesnât. Personally i think it just shows that the designer brands in pushing the envelope.
Niche brands seem slightly less interested in the trend of the moment (overall). They have more riding on the success of their fragrances so theres more incentive to leave them on the market. Worst case is they unload a trucks worth to a reseller on the gray market.
Thanks!
Kitteh!!
I wonder how much of a role the discount market influences discontinuations. Maybe a significant portion of the market waits for a fragrance to hit discounters to make a purchase. Retailers lose money. Fragrances get discontinued. Thoughts?
I think in most cases, the stock that hits the discounters is the minority (unless the fragrance completely bombed on the retail market). The majority of fragrance buyers in the designer market is also the general population-not us fragheads believe it or not đ
Great episode. Thank you.
Thank you for watching, Laura đđŸ
Armani Code A-list 2018
And this 1 year on the market 2019 discontinued
Youâre right
The one and only thing that pisses me off about this topic is that there is no transparency for the customer. There is never an official statement from the fragrance House as to why the discontinuation happens in this industry. I obviously don't like being in the dark about things when there is no valid reason to keep that information hidden. It's not as if people are spontaneously combusting whilst applying a fragrance so they discontinue and also try to conceal the reason why it was discontinued.
Just fucking tell us, we're not going to collapse into the fetal position and die.
Would you do another about why the hell do they destroy their existing perfumes? I mean first edition is so strong and projecting and it gets formulated and becomes $hit. Could be to make us spray and buy more? Well this only makes me lose trust and have sour taste in my mouth.
There can be many reasons why this can happen, many of which can be the same as discontinuation...but we can never know for sure.
Many houses sell their rights ..
Mugler went 2 L'Oréal and BAM, no longer the real Angel and no longer the real Alien.
Around 3 months ago TF selled his line 2 Esee Lauder..
I am so scared what will happen 2 Black Orchid eau de parfum and the parfum!
Still sad they threw away Orchid Soleil đą
Grtz from Amsterdam
I'm still bitter about 1 million prive getting discontinued. I tried to find it for a year before it was officially announced that it was discontinued. So many cancelled orders. đą I figure it must have sucked up too much oxygen and they couldn't successfully launch the next 1 million royal elixir parfum++ flanker. đ
I was going to mention YSL Bleu Electrique, but you covered it. They also have Babycat that is a huge hit, but they aren't releasing that one in North America either. What the hell is up with that? Come on, YSL.
Edit: Sammy W said, "It just doesn't make scents." I thought that was funny.
Lol I guess they donât trust us over here in NA.
@@stayfreshproductions I wonder if it is some kind of distribution issue. Maybe YSL is withholding some of their newer releases as a negotiating tactic for better distribution terms, or maybe their currently trying to find a new distributor or something. Otherwise, this just doesn't make any sense.
Since I started watching videos on fragrances, I have always wondered why when they hold up the bottle, it's always held at an angle? Is it because of lighting, and or focus?
It's to avoid glare on the bottle from our lights in front of us
For the stock holders
Is the whole Aqva collecction discontinued by Bvlgari?
I believe so.
Good riddance
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Yea Valentino Aqua is the one that I enjoyed the most for a designer that made me question whatâs really going on. Imo itâs the best release so what happened? I have no idea
I guess it didnât sell very well overall
@@stayfreshproductions it started my journey so it has a special place lol
Hello Justin, how are you? Great job as usual on the video and content. BEAR WITH ME đ "! YOUR SENSE OF HUMOR IS SIMILAR TO MINE BUT IT ADDS TO THE CONTENT. STAY SAFE BROTHER AND HI TO GRACE
Thank you Greg đđŸđ
đ„đ„đ„đ„
Dior Homme Parfume đą
Yo justin ive been watching you for a while and have rlly fallen in love with fragrances, yet i find myself in this strange addiction often resulting in stress or some sort of anxiousness, how did u come to have such a healthy relationship with this hobby? id love to know
Preciate it
Itâs about slowing down and appreciating what you have. The addiction does not lie in loving fragrances, it lies in acquiring new things. Many of us go through this. Itâs the fear of missing out. You just need to realize that youâre not missing anything by not buying.
Also, establishing a monthly budget can be helpful. You need to chart out all of your expenses in relation to your income, and section off a small part of it to fragrance. Or maybe not even every month, perhaps every other. This can keep you honest with yourself.
@@stayfreshproductions Thanks manđŻ
Hey Justin (or anyone else), this is unrelated but is there a good place to sample Timbuktu? I hear you talk about it alot and the note breakdown looks like my style but I can't find a sample anywhere. Please help
Iâm not sure đ
@@stayfreshproductions NW man. Be blessed
Discontinuation is much better than reformulating fragrances. Top brands now are reformulating their top sellers fragrances and consumers are deceived by buying for a Frangrance that used to be good. Such as: Aventus, Layton, Spicebomb, Tere D'Hermes, and many more :(
Too bad YSL discontinued Caftan.
Wait wait, Versace Oud Noir is discontinued? Gucci Intense Oud?! CH Prive??? Mont Blanc Individuel??????!!!!
MBi is overrated garbage.
@@magacop5180 Im not crazy about the scent, but to discontinue that is insane.
I donât understand that either. Tell me more.
#stayfreshsquad
so the killer of a fragrance is his next flanker
How does this title get you in trouble?
CZcams has cracked down even harder on profanity or implied profanity.
Not on rap videos they're not. Toxic and profane as you like.
They took my Soul! My Costume National Soul.đ«€ đ
I think a lot of it can be legalities as well. Maybe a perfumer signed a 2 year sales contract and had no interest in doing business with the designer house anymore then took his creations with him.