How Does Patchbay Normalling Work? With Examples
Vložit
- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- There is a lot of information out there about audio patchbays, and seemingly just as much confusion. After all, patchbays can seem pretty daunting at first. For those looking for a short, to-the-point explanation of how patchbays work and the differences between each normalling mode, this video is for you!
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:44 Non-Normalled Example
01:35 Fully-Normalled Example
02:58 Half-Normalled Example
04:20 Wiring Explanation
05:53 Wrapping Up
This deserves a million views. It is by far the best explanation I’ve ever seen on normalling in patchbays.
agree!
same here!
Agree!!
I teach audio recording and this is the patch bay video I’ve been looking for. The animations are incredibly helpful for illustrating the signal flow to-and-from the connections. Thank you!
low key i’m kinda glad this video is underrated because this what basic “producers” will never learn. great information thank you!
Best explanation I've seen on youtube. Especially the internal mechanism part.
After spending hours reading I bumped in to this video. You just literally saved my live.
One of the best videos on patch bays period!! Please make more content like this. Your page will blow up 🙏
Very well done! So happy I came across this video after going down the youtube patchbay rabbit hole. Best video for folks who need a refresher or are new to patchbays. Great visuals, pacing, and explanations.
The best explanation of patch bays I have ever seen! in less than 7 mins... Awesome job!
The animated-visual representations really helped me out with getting the most out of my patchbay and what the most useful setup of it would be
Excellent video. I wired 96 way normalised times 7 bays many years ago, I remember all that soldering lol
This is really, really, really good! I'm learning about this, but this video just clarifies it through great visuals.
My studio operations professor showed our class this video this break down patch bay normally and it is immesely helpful. thank you for such a clear and concise video on the topic
Best explanation I've seen showing the 3 modes for patch bays. I dug out some old Neutrik patch bays which I could never utilise correctly and I am now ready to connect my old analogue mixer to my Apollo 8 interface with 8 direct out from my mixer along with 8 returns from my Apollo and finally my outboard gear will utilise the remaining 8 available slots on the Patchbay using the half normal mode. Thank you so much for a brilliant tutorial. Regards
Alan
Finally I get it ! Well explained. My head no longer hurts :)
Wow, as others have said, this is an outstanding informational video. Well done and thank you. 🙏
A proper visual aid. Well done
I have a couple of Switchcraft patchbays I got for free but the cables were just brutally cut so I have to figure out how to solder them. This video helps a lot to figure out what I want and how to do it. Thank you!
Simply the best video out there, when it comes to helping you understand how patchbays work. Thank you!
Thank you so much for making this video!! The animations are top-notch! Will be sharing this with all my fellow newbie audio engineers :)
Best patchbay explanation I've found so far! thanks!!
Awesome! Visual representation as you've made it is just the best way to learn patch bays. Many videos out there lack some clarity. You've nailed it. Thanks so much!
I have seen many patch bay videos, but this is the best one. Thanks!
Incredible. No other explanation of the topic out there like it, hands down.
Best Patchbay Video! Thank you so much for this!🔥🔥🔥
Very well done, it was a joy to follow your explanations.
Fantastic explanation WITH animation!
This is so fantastic.. Revealing & Demystifying the normalling concepts. Thank you
Finally! An explanation I can actually understand. Thank you!
Best video for learning how patchbays work. Thank you!
Wonderful job, I do believe after watching this. That other people people videos I should see purposely make it look like it’s hard complicated. Thank you so much for showing us much appreciated and it is the best video I’ve ever seen.
Thank-you! You are a true master of explanation.
Brilliantly explained! Hats off to ya!
Well done there! This is by far the most informative, clear and super easy to understand explanation on how patchbays work.
this was a fantastic video!!! extremely clear explanation, but what sets this apart was the clean, clear and simple graphics. great job!!!
Thank you very much for these explanations and illustrations!
Really well done!
This video was very appreciated! Thanks!
One of the best explanations! Well done, thank you.
Perfect video. Thanks!
This is by far the best patchbay explaination on the entire internet! Thank you! Like and subscribed! I just set up my all my old rack gear with a Samson S-Patch Plus 48 Point Balanced Patchbay, and this video helped tremendously!
THANK YOU!!! So well explained!
Amazing explanation. Thank you. 🎉
Great video!!! Thanks for the examples 🎉
This video is amazing!! I had no idea what normaling is even with so many videos and peoples explanation. This cleared it up so much
This video was extremely helpful, your way of illustrating the signal flow was very clear. Thank you
Thanks thanks thanks!! The best explanation about patchbay
top video -super easy explanation!
Thanks very much! This is the best video I've seen!
You helped me so much, the explanation with this animation made me learn how it works, cuz sume times a book isnt enough, u got a new sub
This was incredibly informative thank you
Excellent explainer, so much easier than wrapping my head around static diagrams. The close-up footage of the jacks is great too. The humble patch bay is a pretty clever invention really!
This is insane !! thank you so much !
Thank you, this is very helpful.
Great examples! Great video
I agree, best video for the topic! Thank you.
best audio and video explanation, i have ever seen
I've seen plenty vids on patchbays, but this one is superior, thank you!
Perfect thank you very much for such easy explanation
Nicely done and you have great potential as a voice over artist or this is the best computer AI voice thing I have ever heard. :)
Great work!
best explanation on youtube... thank you.
Best video on the subject by far.
Very thorough!
Great video!
Amazing thank you, really clear!
Wow amazing work
Great information
Great visuals.
There is no better video explaining how a patchbay work. 👍
That random dolphin cracked me up 😅. Great explanation 🎉
Unreal, spent a good 3 hours on gearspace summing up all the possibilties of how these works. This summed up my conclusions so aptly. Wouldve been good t o go into the problem areas of a patchbay and how it can damage gear .
Now I finally understand lol.Great video!
Thankfully thanking you
Thank you!
AWESOME 👍🏼
Thanks a lot!
Fantastic Video. Sub. Thanks
Thx for amazing tutorial video, however I do have a doubt somthing not clear for me, whatever outboard gears let's say I have one type of compresor and aslo eq, only I can get connections from the out puts from and can't do input as well, which mean not allowed to make in and out each simultaneously.
I hope me question is cleared.
Thank u
@TeDubbs Thanks for the great video. What about the impedance when using half-normal (splitting the mic signal into two)?
The input impedence when running two or more pieces of gear in parallel will be lowered, but input impedence of these devices is normally so high it doesn't present an issue. As long as you aren't splitting the signal 10+ times, you should be just fine.
Do note that you shouldn't be be splitting the raw mic signal, only the line level signal post-preamp. Mic and instrument levels are so low to begin with that splitting them isn't a great idea.
@@TeDubbs Thanks!
Just one quick question. When connecting microphones to the patchbay, presumably you would have to use some kind of XLR to balanced TRS cable/adapter if so, how would this allow the use of phantom power?
I wonder if its possible - I think is not - to connect the "combo ins" of an audio interface, via some sort of "cable patch" (if this would even exist) or something like it or whatever other method, in a way that said combo jack in its connected separately into two inputs of a Patchbay, making this way available for separate both ins connection, a microphone and a line connection in order of not having to reach behind the interface fitted into a rack, as needed?
I have thought about this myself a lot actually. The interfaces with combo jacks process the signal the same regardless of weather TRS or XLR is plugged in, so you could get identical behavior by, for example, always using TRS, and plugging microphones in via an XLR to TRS adapter. The issue with doing that or your idea is phantom power. It's never a good idea to run phantom through TRS, even though it would technically work. (This isnt only because phantom isnt expected over TRS, but also due to the fact that you can short circuit phantom power when plugging or unplugging a TRS connector - there is a good reason why XLR is 3 separate pins)
I think the best way to go is to divide up your inputs based on what you for see yourself needing. If you mic everything, only leave one or two TRS inputs accessible on the front of your patchbay. If you're recording 5 synths at a time direct in, then you probably want most of your inputs to be TRS and only a leave a few XLR.
Is the out/in swapped on the rear panel? Like the output coming FROM the microphone is feeding INTO the top on the back side, making it technically the input? In the case of the norm/hnorm are you getting the OUTPUT of the connected mic from the bottom and feeding that cable into the preamp input? (still from rear of patchbay?)
Yes you can think of it like that. The outputs vs inputs do get a bit confusing, but it sounds like you have it right. The 'outs' on the front panel have something plugged in to them on the back. The 'ins' on the front have a cable run from the back to the input of something else.
This is a great visual representation for those of us who need to be shown rather than told, thanks! However, as I try to wrap my head around this still I have a stumbling block…
In your second “normaled” example you have the IN of COMP 1 going to a blank row next to it on top, and picking up two spaces later on the OUT side. How does that IN of comp one skip over a space in the bay to the out of comp 1 without any patching? The same applies to the spacing between comp 2. I thought I had this understood until I saw this. It looks like In “normal” mode all connections between devices need to be zigg-zagged but this threw me off and now I’m confused again 😂
The Comp 1 IN & OUT may look like 2 separate units in the animation, but in reality they are the input and output of the same compressor. The INs and OUTs represent a cable connecting the IN or OUT of the outboard gear to the back of the patchbay at that location. Where you see an IN in the animation, that signal is being passed into the compressor. The compressor processes the signal, which is returned to wherever the OUT is plugged into the back of the patchbay, which could be anywhere.
There is nothing special about where each piece of gear is plugged into the bay. In these examples, the signal generally flows left to right, but it could just as simply flow right to left, or zig zag back and forth depending on where each piece of gear was connected. The patchbay only controls connections between vertical pairs of INs and OUTs. There are no internal connections made between adjacent columns.
Hopefully that helps.
@@TeDubbs I think I’m 90% there, I’m sure when my PB shows up I’ll botch something getting confused at least once or twice but I got a diagram drawn out so hopefully I’ll get it right haha. I have a pretty simple chain for now so should be good, thanks again for this it wound everything down in a much more concise way 👍🏼👊🏼
What I can't seem to find an answer for is where the mic out is sourced from in the case that you need phantom power. Generally, I rely on my interface for phantom power, but in this case, the routing implies the mic should be powered at the point it reaches the patch bay. Do you have to run the mic through the interface and route the signal back out using an output, or are you using a separate source to provide phantom power to the microphone?
Or can the phantom power pass through my patched compressors/preamps with phantom power engaged?
That's a good question. The mic preamp would be providing the phantom power, and there is nothing stopping you from running that phantom power through the patchbay to the mic. There is a lot of debate about whether or not this is a good idea, and in my opinion, it really isn't. In practice you would probably just plug the mic directly into the preamp. (Rather than patched in through the bay)
@@TeDubbs gotcha. I suppose in that scenario, I could get an xlr patch bay that connects to my preamp xlr inputs to quickly patch in mics? In that case, i’d still be able to keep the trs connections to the preamps, and patch in a mic when needed. Does that sound right?
@@BackWhenFM Yeah, that will work. Its how I would handle it if I didn't have easy access to the inputs of the preamp.
Excellent visuals! I've always wondered though, what the case is with phantom power when using TRS patchbays? In this example we're talking about a mic out going into a patchbay (as it's a very very common example seen everywhere), but I find mixed opinions and views on wether or not patchbays are able to carry phantom power and if using 48V through a TRS connection rather than an XLR one is in some way dangerous or not recommended. Thoughts? Cheers!
That's a great question. Electrically speaking, TRS and XLR are identical. They both have 3 conductors (wires), and so can both carry the same signals, including phantom power. However, because on TRS connectors, all contacts are axially aligned, the possibility exists for a short circuit when plugging or unplugging the connector. This isn't a problem on XLR because each conductor gets its own pin, and there is no possibility of plugging a pin into the wrong socket or bridging two sockets with the same pin.
Phantom power should be off when plugging or unplugging any connected gear, which means this wouldn't be a problem in a perfect world. But since we aren't perfect and sometimes forget to turn off the phantom power, it's best to only use XLR cables to transmit.
@@TeDubbs thanks for the quick response, you’re awesome! yeah, that’s how I imagine it too… so the patchbay itself isn’t the problem, but rather the danger or messing up when patching things in the front of the patchbay with phantom power on, right?
In that case it’s probably okay to have a bunch of XLR to TRS cables (XLR end for the mics, TRS for the back of the patchbay) conected at all times for easier routing so long as one doesn’t change the signal path on the front of the patchbay whilst having 48V engaged?
Or would you just recommend an XLR patchbay and how would you incorporate that in conjunction with a TRS one for the rest of the line level gear patching?
Cheers!
Great
Just to clarify, is a “non-normal” connection the same as a “thru” connection? As far as I am aware there are three connection types: normal, half normal and thru so I am guessing thru and non-normal are the same (but would like to know for sure). That makes sense to me.
Great video. Clearly explains how to use the different configurations and why you would want to. Patch bays seem so simple (and I guess they are) but it’s taking me a while to nail it down and get my head around it properly. They are incredibly useful and exactly what I’ve been looking for to make my outboard gear more accessible.
Yep, you're right; thru and non-normalled refer to the same thing. The connections are wired straight thru, front panel to back, without using the normalling switches on the jacks.
The initial setup can be daunting due to the sheer number of options available, but once you settle on something it really does improve the workflow. Much less energy needs to be spent changing signal routing around.
@@TeDubbs - Excellent. Thank you. Just about to have another go at deciding how to route everything with my new patchbay. You’re right, deciding how I want it by default is the trickiest part. However, I will be able to change it if something isn’t working for me. So handy and I can’t believe I didn’t think of doing this earlier.
great vid - the animations were a good idea, thanks so much! So this may be a silly question. Since the typical 48 point patch bays are 1/4 inch, is there any negatives to running a TRS balanced 1/4 inch out of gear as opposed to XLR? I know technically they are the same cabling but ive heard weird things about some outboard equipment performing different when using XLR vs TRS. My guess is no difference but. you know. Also, with this in mind, is there any problem running an XLR output form outboard through an XLR>1/4 input on the patchbay? I have some equipment that only has XLR outs. thanks man, im sure ill be back with more questions, but you seem like the right dude to ask :)
As you said, there is no electrical difference between a TRS and an XLR cable, just different connectors. If the gear outputs a different signal depending on which output is used, you would want to be aware of that - I wouldn't be shocked if there were cases where that was true. Some outboard gear can select between -10 dBV & +4 dBu input & output levels, so maybe something similar could apply depending on which output is used.
Nothing wrong with using an adapter to route XLR through a TRS bay, but be careful with phantom power. The standard rules apply - make sure power is only turned on after everything is patched and turned off before anything is unplugged.
@@TeDubbs great thank you so much! I actually just received the ART 48 1/4 patch bay and its great for my outboard gear. only problem is I wish it actually had a pure non normaled option. wanted to run some guitar pedals on the right side of the unit just for easy access, but if nothing is plugged into the front of unit, the ART defaults to the "waterfall" regardless of normal or half normal, and I dont want that with pedals, seems like a mess. I wouldn't be able to use top and bottom columns together. guess ill have to purchase some straight through non normal 1/4 connector boxes for that right? unless you have anther thought for the guitar pedals. Thanks so much man.
@Robert Wilson yeah thanks man, I did indeed go that way. were all set up and rocking. great patchbay, love this thing.
It may have already been stated, but be aware that 1/4 TRS cables do not allow 48 volt phantom power to pass through, so you can't use phantom from the preamp to the mic over a TRS to XLR cable.
There is nothing preventing phantom power from passing through TRS cables. Whether or not it's a good idea is a separate debate, but it will work just fine. Both XLR and TRS have 3 conductors, and electrically speaking they are identical.
I can produce $100+ worth of TRS to XLR cables that won't pass 48 volt and the manufacturer said that they do not let it pass through.
@@TheHithirteen Like I said, they are electrically identical, only difference being connectors. There are dangers associated with plugging and unplugging TRS cables which have phantom power turned on, due to the connector creating a short circuit when not fully plugged in. (This is why XLR has 3 separate pins).
These dangers are likely why manufactures say it will not pass phantom - they don't want to be liable for broken equipment. Just to be clear, passing phantom through TRS is not standard practice nor is it recommended, but it will work. I have done it.
Hi. Can I connect the mic to the input of the compressor, and then connect connect the output of the compressor to the input of the interface?
You can, but the level entering the compressor will be very low. Microphones use preamps to boost the very low microphone level output to line level before further processing, as outboard gear is generally designed to operate at the higher line level.
That being said, I have used a mic going directly into compressor in a pinch to act as a preamp just to get the mic level signal up to something loud enough to be heard through a PA system.
How would you connect your microphone to the patchbay? if it needs 48 phantom, or has an xlr?
Your mic would typically be connected through a preamp, which would accept an XLR input and offer phantom power. Its output would be hooked into the patchbay.
Thanks@@TeDubbs would you be able to run a mic that has a power supply directly into the patchbay? Like say a warm audio
Is the out of the mic the physical mic cable? If so, would that mean that it's and xlr to 1/4 inch cable?
Yes, it could be. It would be XLR to 1/4 TRS or a smaller TT (Bantam) connector depending on what style patchbay we're talking about. In either of these cases the XLR signal would remain balanced.
It could also be that the output of a microphone is exposed on the patchbay, I.E. from a snake, or input located in another room, etc. This is how my patchbay is set up and was what I based this video on.
@@TeDubbs Oh I see. Thanks so much! Your video does an awesome job at explaining patchbays. I have seen too many patchaby videos only to be left unsure of connections.
I wish that I understood how to connect to interface db25 i/o
Some people patching half normal to output, essentially using it as a mixer. In my opinion crazy as you in theory can damage your gear.
Does it matter if patchbays are normalled or non normalled ??
This video it´s not helpfull, in fact this is THE definitive guide to patchbays. And the illustrations... OMG, what an amazing job.
Wish I had seen your video first....
I'm asking why don't you show what and how to set the rear part of the patch bay as well as the front
Because the rear is literally a mirror of the front. Outputs cables from your equipment go up top. Inputs on bottom. The front jacks are just a mirror. Google image this and you’ll see.
I know this is a a good explanation of patchbays, but damn it's still confusing shit
It's a complicated item