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High Performance Bedding for Pavers | Why We Use HPB Instead of Concrete Sand
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- čas přidán 16. 08. 2024
- On today's video, we talk about HPB or High Performance Bedding, what it is and why we use it as our bedding layer instead of concrete sand.
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I've been useing 3/4" clear and then used HPB before paving any patio stones for a little over 10 yrs and I recommend it to my friends who want to pave their walkways and backyard.
Definitely a great base!
What's the advantage with that over 3/4 recycled and hpb?
Man thanks to Mike and his/this video it saved my bacon today. I originally bought a load of HPB from a well known local building supply store (no not one of the big box stores). I ran out do went to another supplier very close to my house and picked up another load. BUT, after watching this and other of Mike's videos, while not a pro, I've done enough homework and research to know 1/2 of the garbage I put down was not the recommended material. Too many rounds and it felt like I was walking on a pebble beach with my feet slipping under me.
After checking in with Mike, he graciously advised Absolut don't use that material. So my instincts were right.
That $150 of material could've ruined my entire patio. 😢 But as we all learned in Star Wars; trust your instincts, you know it to be true.
Thanks Mike 👍
Thank you Carl! 👍
@@iamahardscaper It's important to give credit where credit is due. 👍🏻
I called several building supplies... they never heard of it in los angeles area. Just sand. Checked prices😲
yeah I've heard that it is a little more difficult to find in your area down to the South as well
Awesome video. I am using this for my 24"x24"x2" cement Pavers and Masonry sand for my flagstone. Thankjs
Thank you!
Great Content learning a lot from it, down here in the Niagara region I use what we call screening for laying the pavers, but I really like the HPB and I will definitely try it out.
Definitely make the switch 👍
I'm going to be putting in a 12 x 16 patio. I finally found a materials company that has this. Very hard to find in Denver. Thanks 😂🎉
Amazing!
Thanks for the video. Super helpful! This is the kind of info that helps the industry as a whole
Really appreciate that!
Using sand to grade is the worst possible choice cause it's to soft and easily disturbed and it can get washed away easy by heavy rain and ants will dig up your bedding . The only issue I don't like about high performance bedding is that it can scratch the surface of your stones and it's not fine enough to grade prefect . I have to lay plywood and tarps underneath plywood when I'm using high performance so we don't scratch and destroy our interlock
Yeah I can definitely see that problem if it tracks on top of your pavers
Thanks this video is very helpful. Just made my job much better.
Glad it helped!
Been stonescaping for 20 years. I’ve always used 3/4 clear under all my armour stone walls and natural steps. Not one complaint of sinking (over 900 jobs)
HPB is the best for paver projects
Nice! Great to hear
I've got a large patio with 3/4 clear because I thought I was going to pour concrete. Could I simply add HPB as a top layer over this and use pavers? Thanks for your help, 1st job! lol.
@@robvendetti technically you could but I’d use a plate tamper on top of the hpb to vibrate tue hpb to fill in any voids in the 3/4. Once you feel confident there won’t be any sinking start setting your scraper bars.
@@room1271 Okay, got it! Thanks for the tip... appreciate it!
Great thumbnail!
Thank you!
It looks identical to the cinders they use for track and field from school.
👍👍
I am just about to screed a small patio in my yard. This video has convinced me to use the HPB over a concrete sand. You mentioned it would sink a bit, but I am assuming for a small patio, this would be negligible?
No, you just need to account for that when you are screeding. That it will go down less than a 1/8” per 1” of bedding. You want to screed a little above your final height
Amazing Content, thank you so much for you contributions to this community! Would #9 limestone Gravel be similar to HPB? I can't seem to find HPB in my local area. #9 Gravel is a size of crushed stone. Each grain is approximately 3/8" and angular in shape.
Thank you! Yeah #8 or #9 👍
It’s a wealth of information, to a novice like me, it’s coming at me too fast, almost overwhelming..
Turn the video to .5x speed
90% what are the other options and what are there %-S , pavers are crazy, we use 53's w dust for concrete. I like your way, but if I lose 10%s for concrete u will have to much settling for later, it's always a cat and mouse game
Yeah this is more so for a setting bed for pavers definitely
Discovered your channel a bit too late and have already installed 6” of dense graded base, the 3/4”-1” minus. The area does get water runoff as the yard has a slight grade toward where the patio will be located. Planned to use sand, but would you recommend using this material as a screed layer instead even over the dense graded base? After watching your videos, realizing this may not have been the best choice for a base layer, but it’s already in the ground and hoping to get things right for the next step. The pavers will not be permeable, if that matters-using Unilock Beacon Hill smooth pavers. Thank you!
Also located in an area with freeze/thaw cycles.
i like to use it on my screed layer regardless of the base material
Woah, this is an awesome method!! Absolutely love it. I would love to try this, nobody does anything like this over here in Australia. I would love to be able to sell this to high end clients. I would be a little bit worried about the top layer being that soft?
It gets locked in when you lay your pavers and then when you install the jointing compound and compact 👍
Final Height question: do you get any paver settling during poly compaction with HPB? Like with sand for example, it compacts about 1/4".
yes, less than 1/8"
Final question for you (appreciate all the responses). I got a supplier that has 1/4” chip with no fines. They call it high performance bedding stone. I don’t see the word angular, but I’m assume chip means angular? The company I’m looking at to supply this is fisherforestproducts in Richmond, on. Let me know if you’re able to check for me I’d truly appreciate it!
Yes HPB is what you want
Thanks for the info very helpful as I’ve been agonizing over HPB versus lime stone screening as that’s what’s here at my house on this job of 1250 ft.² in the GTA area in Ontario Canada. With this being said, I have to let everyone know that I did ask for three quotes for this job on my old 1965 bungalow that I got in 2010, and all three use lime stone screening. So that’s interesting! Also of note, the lime stone screening and the actual interlock was an amazing shape. The only reason why, I am changing it is because it’s a very old style probably 30 years or so. With this being said, and the big question that I have is what type of screening rails should I purchase for the job. I don’t want something that’s going to flex or bend and I don’t mind spending a little bit extra. Thank you in advance😁
Also in Toronto. There are still contractors that will use limestone screenings even though it voids the manufacturer's warranties on their products. Most people get stuck in the way they do it and it is difficult to change. We use black iron gas bars 3/4" inner diameter from any hardware store.
@@iamahardscaper Thanks 🙏
What would you choose: 1/4 clean crushed rock or 3/8 clean crushed rock? These are the options available where I live. I'm planning on using a synthetic base for our backyard pavers under our deck cover
Either one works. Probably the 1/4
For a walkway/patio extension.
Weed barrier
HPB (tamped or no tamped?)
Synthetic paver base
Pavers ?
Does that make sense? Sorry first time DIYer
Compact subsoil
Nonwoven geotextile (it’s a bit thicker than a weed barrier)
HPB, no need to tamp
Synthetic Paver base
Pavers
Then compact pavers when sweeping jointing compound (protect pavers by strapping a pad to compactor or laying protective layer on top of pavers)
In my area nobody uses the term hpb. Can I use crushed granite, # 8 granite?
Yeah it is a term in Ontario that got spread some places as well. #8s or #9s is the same thing
Excellent presentation. From Ontario Canada. What is the standard depth required for base using hpb for bedding? Is a sub base of granular of 4-6” needed? How deep does the base excavation need to be for a common residential patio, walkway installation?
We go 1" to 1.5" of HPB as a bedding layer. Definitely still need a base, we go 6 to 8" for our base for residential patio, walkways. Because we are dealing with so much poor clay soils here.
@@iamahardscaper In my part of Toronto it's primarily "yellow" sand, which results in amazing, for the most part, drainage as opposed to the clay I was accustomed to in Scarborough.
I am doing a walkway with concrete flagstones. Would you recommend the same base as the reply above?
I'm trying to find that in my area, but haven't yet. We have some permeable baserock, but that's the closest I've seen. I'm here Near Palo Alto California
Yeah I have heard it’s not quite available everywhere. Figure out where that supplier gets their base rock, make a connection, and request this. Then get a bunch more contractors to do the same.
It's called #8 chip stone.
Yup 👍
I tore up a concrete walkway and will be installing pavers. I will be installing pavers and want to know if HPB can be used as base layer and bedding layer.
No, only the bedding layer
Your videos are well done and informative. What is your opinion on using the plate compactor to set the poly sand on products like 60mm permacon slabs that say not to use the plate? Do you do it anyway with plywood?
It’s best to use a roller. We have done it with a plastic pad. Never with plywood on those big slabs.
I'm in the process of preparing the install of an 8x10 Lifetime shed, and my old man is recommending using HBP as the base for the shed to sit on, although I've seen 3/4" gravel recommended pretty regularly. Could I get away with using HBP?
Are you laying slabs on top of the HPB? I would still opt for 3/4" with a screed layer of HPB.
Must have watched this video 100 times and finally settled on using HPB under my synthetic paver bases. So I’m at the stage of laying 1/4” clean bluestone about 3/4” thick under my paver base and then placing porcelain pavers on top with about 3-4” spaces in between. So my question is tamping bedding isn’t required? And while I debate what to use in between spaces of pavers, is there a ‘poly metric’ blend for large spaces in case I decide to use marble chips or fine bluestone in the 3-4” spaces between pavers?
No need to compact the bedding layer if you’re using 1/4” chip. But we do a final compaction of the pavers once we poly. There are polymeric sands that do joints up to 4”. Each manufacturer should have one
We plan to fill in our inground pool and lay a patio which, when finished, will extend just a few feet into the shallow end of the pool. Our landscaper suggests using HPB to fill in the void in this area, but we aren't convinced it will be enough to prevent a significant sink. Three feet of HPB?? Also in the GTA. Is it as good as all that?
I personally wouldn’t. But it is also something I have never done before and I would rather fill in the inground pool one year and then do the project the next year depending how things settle
@@iamahardscaper That's pretty much what we are thinking. Thanks for the reply!
Great video! Very informative
Do you have a recommendation on a brand?
Thanks
Thank you! A brand for pavers? If you contact your local landscape supplier and see what they have in stock, they likely will be able to steer you in the right direction 👍
@@iamahardscaper thank for your answer! I meant the brand of the clean crushed stone you use. Since you mentioned that there are some that have rounded pebbles. Thanks 🙏🏼
It totally depends on the supplier and what they stock. As long as the aggregate is fractured and angular and stands up to a hardness test, should be good.
I just want lay few pavers in my front yard and stop stepping on my lawn grass but i want to do it right! A little advice please
If you go back to one of our first videos, it is a 20 minute video on installing pavers step by step
I used to build interlock patios from a pool company and we always used 3/4 clear as base with hpb as top layer.
I am doing a patio for my own home now years later and ivd been told by someone who sells the material that the hpb will wash through the 3/4 clear and to use 3/4 crusher run and hpb as my 1" bedding. Does that make sense?
No, 3/4 clear does not have gaps larger than the 1/4" HPB for it to wash through. That being said, we have used 3/4" down to fines for our bas with HPB on top for some scenarios.
@@iamahardscaper awesome, appreciate the replies! Solid page. Helping out huge. I'm at the point now to put polymeric down. Worried about tamping and possibly moving interlock too much. Looks like it needs to be done.
If you sweep in the sand and then compact it, they shouldn’t move. Make sure to use a pad to protect the pavers
very helpful!
Thank you!
I'm looking to lay pavers on my own and my understanding is to put down 4 inches of 3/4 inch crushed gravel and 1 inch of concrete sand. My question is: could I just put down 4 inches of HPC and then polymeric sand to cover the gaps between the pavers? Thanks!
No unfortunately HPB is for bedding / leveling and not for the base. Depending on where you are located you may want to increase that 4 inches to at least 6 inches.
When laying HPB under a synthetic base, how deep is your HPB layer?
1”
Awesome channel, just subscribed. A previous video you used sand as the base for paver overlay over concrete. Thickness of sand was only 1/4". Would you use HPB instead today or stick with the sand in that application?
Thank you for subscribing! I wouldn’t use HPB unless I had at least 1/2” for it. A 1/4” space will lead to inconsistencies especially with the chips that are at that 1/4” measurement. There needs to be a good bed of chips for consistency, so we opt for concrete sand in those cases.
Hi ! I love your channel. Very detailed. I had an inexperienced contractor who messed up my backyard. He didn't dig very deep and put about 2 inches of limestone screening. How should I fix this? Can I put hpb on top? Or dig up all the screening?
If he hadn’t dug deep enough you likely need to re-excavate. Remove and maybe use a synthetic base.
I'm using Gator-base panels how deep should I make the HPB open grade agulet be under the panels? What size screeding rail should I use?
About 1”. You’d be looking for 3/4” inside diameter pipes which have an outside diameter of 1”
I’ve been trying to find hardscapers in my area who will use open grade base as I think it’s the best application especially for our house. Bottom of a 1000’ ridgeline that has a lot of water draining through. All the guys I’ve talked to so far have pushed back saying this method will cause the pavers to move and buckle over time and want to use compacted road base. What’s your take on this? I plan to keep looking to find someone who’s methods I agree with…
I'd have to know their reasoning behind why it would cause it to move and buckle to be able to respond. My first thought when someone says something that doesn't make sense is they are either stuck in their ways or they have never heard about open graded. I personally just try to use the best base for the application.
Would non woven fabric between the pavers and hpb prevent joining sand from falling into the base?
There is such a small loss of sand into the base that it isn’t even worth it. I think I use like 5-10% more sand when using HPB.
Hello, about to start a DIY backyard patio and your videos have been very helpful. Keep up the great videos. One question for you though, can you use HPB as the entire base or would I need a 3/4 clear as the base and then use the HPB as the bedding layer? I've been getting mixed answers regarding this. The yard that I'm purchasing my stone from is saying that I could use it as the entire base layer directly on top of the fabric.
You definitely can only use it as the bedding layer. I used to work at a yard that said the same thing and even myself installed some on only HPB. But it is not a base material, it just does not have the bearing ability that a larger aggregate does. There are no manufacturers or the governing body of interlocking concrete that specify it to be used as base.
@@iamahardscaper do I need to compact the HPB above the 3/4 clear aggregate?
nope
Great videos, Very helpful! I am about to start a hydronic heated walkway using Pex tubing laid in Amvic Ampex insulation board topped with 2 inches of sand mix concrete, then an inch of concrete bedding sand and finally the concrete pavers. I’m looking to do all of this over open grade base of 6-8 inches of #57 and 2-3 inches of #8. The walkway will have a 10-12% grade down to a driveway so surface drainage shouldn’t be an issue. Can you offer any suggestions or advice on this approach? Thanks!
I actually could not, I would consult with the heating manufacturer to discuss this approach and see what they would recommend or say. Hope that helps
So i can use on pool....
On top of a pool? I wouldn’t
can the clean 1/4-3/8 crushed stone be anything besides limestone? we have a lot of granite here in the SE US...I can't find a limestone product.
Yup that’s fine
thank you! we're doing a flagstone walkway. Newbies. Wish us luck!
Hello! I've seen so many videos saying to use rock dust under pavers/stone, so I'm glad to find this info. Does HPB apply for not just pavers but a flagstone walkway as well, and then use the rock dust for between joints? Thanks!
Yup, I would use a wide joint polymeric sand for the joints preferably.
So your using the HPB instead of the 1” sand layer that would be right underneath the flagstone? Or are you using it instead of the 4” base rock?
instead of the 1" sand layer
Love your channel! Just about to use HPB for the first time in Pennsylvania for a porcelain paver install. Would you recommend compacting the HPB before laying the porcelain since we can’t plate compact after laying? Almost nobody is using HPB yet down here so not much local knowledge to go on. Thx!
Thank you! No need to compact prior to installing. I think you can still use a roller compactor on it. What are you installing for the joints?
Thanks! I’ll definitely look into the roller compactor. We are using the “Gator” spacers to keep a uniform joint width and poly sand for the joints. They are 24” x 36” slabs. We need to meet perfectly level with pool coping so I’m hoping that there is not a lot of settling with HPB… especially with such large format slabs.
Hello, I can only find a mix of 3/8-1/2" near me. Is that too big for the bedding layer? Thanks!
That is too big unfortunately
Thanks for the video! Could you substitute 1/4" crushed stone for HPB?
Yup same stuff as long as it is angular crushed 👍
I've been looking for this in California near Livermore (San Francisco Bay Area) and have not found a supplier of this. Anyone know where to buy this or the equivalent near zip code 94588?
It may be difficult to source it in California, but your best bet is to contact gravel pits in your area to see if they have ASTM 8 or 9 which is the american standard code for this material.
Hello, I'm getting ready to start a paver project in my backyard and hpb was recommended to me. They said I don't need a base and can lay the hpb on the ground with a fabric, after I remove the grass. The soil is clay based from what I understand. Then after that I can lay the pavers. Is this okay and how thick of a base would I need for 60mm pavers? I live in Ontario Toronto region. Thanks!
HPB is only meant to be a bedding layer, 1” maximum. It can’t be used as the entire base. You could install a synthetic base with fabric, HPB, then the paver base panels like Gator Base, and pavers. But for a traditional base you would have a minimum 6” for a patio.
Have you used HPB on a driveway where the pavers have a 2mm joint width and are filled with kiln dried jointing sand? ( not polymeric sand ) Is there a concern that the kiln dried sand would percolate down into and through the larger HPB and lock up would be compromised? Would love to hear your thoughts on this. Thanks.
I have not. But yes there would be some of the sand that would be lost into the HPB. I would assume that over time there would be minimal loss into the HPB as long as there is proper consolidation during the installation process. You might also look at installing a joint stabilizing sealer.
Here is a video comparing HPB to Concrete Sand for a project and why sometimes I would opt for Concrete Sand especially for a driveway application with tight joints:
czcams.com/video/eq0kQUSS__Y/video.html
Many thanks for the response. Another great video.
I have a small question, because I'm a bit confused, and I want to succeed in my installation next spring. For 3/8 rock bedding, is it better to compact it or not?! thank you a thousand times!
Compact after pavers are laid
I’m unable to find ASTM 9 stone in my area to use under my Gatorbase panel. I did find a clean angular chip in the 3/8 to 1/4 range.
Sieve numbers show it a little bit bulkier overall compared to ASTM 9. Can I still use it under the Gatorbase?
Yup that works, that is what we use.
Thanks. Your narrative style is thorough and understandable. Well done. Cheers
🙏
Do you happen to know any suppliers in Ottawa where I can get HPB delivered?
Not off the top of my head, but there should be plenty that can. Search landscape supplier
@@iamahardscaper found a few, but many say they do contain some fines. Or the stone is 7mm (not 1/4). Not sure if this will cause issues
Thanks again for this video! I swear it's on a loop on my computer! 😆 Thinking about how to use HPB to make some slight tweaks to my slopes... I typically see guidance for sand as not exceeding 1" of depth for a bedding layer, though I don't know that I've seen guidance around minimums in bedding layers, HPB/chip rock or sand, in terms of depth. For HPB, what is the minimum depth one could run?
As a bit of context, I have a front patio/walkway that has a 1/4" slope toward the driveway, though the last ~5 ft the slope is more steep in order to connect with the driveway. I've raked and compacted that transition as much as possible so my pavers don't have large gaps at the top, but am wondering if it is feasible with HPB to possibly go with a standard 1" depth at the driveway and then use a shallower depth at that break point between the slopes to help ease it a bit further. If that's feasible with HPB/chip rock, what is the minimum depth that would be acceptable?🤔
Worth asking... I was able to find 1/4" chipped granite locally as we don't have the official HPB that I could find. Your video shows some larger pieces than what I'm seeing in my material. If I have material that is closer to 1/4" consistently and not the range of 1/4" - 3/8" that you noted, does that change anything in terms of compaction rates to build into my final elevation? You had previously noted a 1/8" of likely compaction using HPB, while sand could be 1/4" to 3/8" of compaction. e.g., I imagine a smaller aggregate material would mean more compaction while larger would yield less? Your video shows you running a larger reversible compactor with plywood over slabs when tamping the HPB. This is a Techo-Bloc Blu 60 slab install and I will be using a lighter roller compactor (2,300 vs. 6,700 lbs of pressure used on the Class 5) and was wondering if that would change your estimate of compaction? 🧐
Lots of questions, I know, so thank you in advance for fielding them! Keep up the great work! 👍👍👍👍👍
You would need about 1/2" minimum for the HPB to be effective in levelling. No more than 1.5". And yes, you will see more compaction with finer aggregates. Really not a lot, but you may add about 1/16" per 1" of bedding layer to what we see with HPB. Hope that helps!
@@iamahardscaper Great! Thanks so much! So about 3/16” of compaction with an inch of consistent 1/4” bedding aggregate, even with a lighter weight roller compactor, just to be sure we’re on the same page? ☺️✌🏻🙏🏻
@@iamahardscaper Thanks again for the input! Are there any limitations or problems with using geogrid between my Class 5 and having the chip rock immediately over that for the bedding layer? e.g., will it mess with that small of an aggregate from locking up as we would want it to? I think I recall you showing it used in another video between lifts of Class 5 but I don't recall seeing it used between a base layer and bedding layer.
Yes, I’d probably lean closer to the lower end of 3/16” still though at 1” of 1/4” bedding. Yes, but the lower the geogrid is in your base, the more effective it is. Still some people use it between their base and bedding layer. Geogrid stabilizes the material on top of it, so the lower the better
I did my first DIY last year and used HPB for my backyard. I am glad I found this video now. We moved from that house and my wife wants me to do the front walkway of new house. I was not sure how the HPB held up, since we moved. So i started doing research again. This video puts me at ease with my decision to use HPB last year and now to reuse it this year.
One thing I can recall from last year is that my HPB shifted a lot while I was walking on it to lay the pavers. I found myself having to level and re-screed as I layed pavers. Could it have been the quality or type of HPB?
No, that happens. You never want to walk on any bedding layer. If you need to, lay a piece of plywood down or something to spread the load over a greater area.
Where to buy HPB?
Check with your local landscape suppliers and gravel pits
Is there a minimum joint width for the pavers or slabs that you need in order to use HPB?
I would say 1/8” is where I start to use it
So how exactly do you handle the jointing sand going down into the HPB? compacting and just keep adding more until it stops?
A very minimal amount bleeds into the HPB. Something less than 10%. So we don’t worry about it
@@iamahardscaper Awesome! thank you for the response. Keep up the great content!
Can I use HPB instead of granite dust or limestone dust for the top layer of an artificial grass with the base being 3/4 lime, area also gets a lot of flooding will this help for more drainage.
Yup, you can install 3/4" clean and HPB on top as well to improve that drainage especially if dogs will be using it.
What about in texas doing front walk way pavers and it slopes down to my street is HPB good to use?
Yeah, but i think it is difficult to find in Texas
Hey man, loving the videos! I’m in Toronto as well and wondering when you usually start your hardscaping season? I see some guys starting when there’s still heavy frost and I just shake my head.
Thank you! We don’t start until the snow completely melts and a little bit after that when the ground isn’t soggy. This year was early, I think we were going in early April. Year before was definitely in late April.
Where could you find this specific rock? I have been looking everywhere and cannot find it. Do you know any retail stores that sells them or a trusted online store?
Where are you located? I find southern states cannot find this stone
@@iamahardscaper Washington state, Seattle
Have you contacted landscape suppliers in your area. I would think you should be able to find it
Amazing video, thank you for sharing your knowledge. I'm in Toronto Canada and just dug out a 400 sq ft area to lay patio pavers. I have dug down 7 inches. My patio pavers are 2 inches in depth, so I need fill 5 inches for my base. Would it be ok to use high performance bedding for my entire base? I was originally going to do 4 inches of recycled crush stone and 1 inch of limestone screening. But my life would be so much easier If I could just to 5 inches of hpb followed by polymetric sand to fill the paver joints.
Unfortunately not. It doesn’t have the same bearing ability as a 3/4” stone or Granular A which would be your base.
@@iamahardscaper So then put 3/4 stone as my base then use hpd as the bedding? do you think 2 inches for hpd is sufficient?
We do no more than 1.5” of bedding material
@@iamahardscaper understood, so I'll be going approx 4 inches of 3/4 crushed stone with 1.5 inches of hpd
You do this for a driveway??
For a driveway if the pavers have wide joints. Otherwise we opt for concrete sand as the bedding layer.
Have you ever done a base for a swim spa? If so what did you use?
I have not. I’d contact the swim spa manufacturer to see what they recommend.
Going to order some tomorrow - but local supplier said 7mm angular and contains some fines (but not much). Think this could be an issue?
3/16" to 1/4" chips is what we look for with no little to no fines. I would go and see it in person before ordering.
@@iamahardscaper gotcha. I found some other suppliers with 1/4 “ and no fines as well. Just a bit more expensive - but sounds like that’s the better route to go here
Yes, it will definitely be one of the most expensive aggregates
@@iamahardscaper totally worth it though! want to make sure this is done right. We’re also doing a base for a hot tub. Do you put this stuff over that as well? Or not really needed there
Where do hardscapers buy the paver sealer? Nobody has it in stock. I don't really want to order it online, but the big box stores don't stock it.
I can't believe that professional hardscapers order it online.
Thanks
Nobody buys hardscape products from big box stores. Just search for a landscape supplier near you. They will stock pavers, aggregates, sealers, anything you need.
@@iamahardscaper
Thanks. I called the supplier I bought my pavers from and he said he THINKS he has a 5 gallon bucket of sealer for $850. I assumed after that information that the professional hardscapers would never be buying it from them.
It has been a while since I bought sealer, but that seems expensive. Go to the Techni Seal or Alliance website and find a dealer near you.
@@iamahardscaper Now I'm wondering how many hardscapers go back to a job to seal it... I'm thinking they don't.
Thanks for your help.
most hardscapers stay away from it and it is a different company entirely that will do it. Kind of like asphalt companies that don't recoat the driveway.
It is difficult to invest a whole lot of money into equipment and then go out and do a bunch of sealing jobs that do not require that equipment and still make enough money to pay for that equipment. Not to mention you need perfect weather for sealing so you may be on a job and have to pull off of it just to go seal a project where you wont be making near the same amount of money.
What do u fill the spaces with once ur pavers or slabs are down
Polymeric sand or a semi-permeable jointing compound. We have a couple videos on our channel for those if you search Jointing Compound or polymeric
I am doing a DIY flagstone patio (about 14x14-ish). Originally was going to do 3-4" compacted base (settled on crusher run 21A - although has more fine than expected), followed by 2" stone dust to settle flagstone into it, and then use polymeric dust (allowed for larger seams than the polymeric sand). I heard that sand after base level can end up washed out or with lots of ants in my area so was not going to use paver sand (started getting some from Lowes). I am in Virginia where we have clay. I have half the base down (picking up plate compacter for ease) and was going to buy a truckload of the stone dust from local stone center when I was told NOT to use it due to lacking drainage. I am picturing water pooling under the flagstone (although there will be at least 1/8" grade) now that I have seen your videos. So alternatives? Still 3-4" of crusher 21A (is that enough?) followed by HPB (we have #8 bluestone washed = 3/8") and how much? (still need room to adjust the varied widths of flagstone and then put polymeric dust or sand in between. Thanks for your thoughts!!....
I would do at least 6” for your base and add geotextile to separate it from your subsoil (compact your subsoil too). Then 1” of HPB, lay your flagstones as tight as possible. For your jointing compound take a look at Alliance Nitro or EasyJoint by Azpects. It is semi permeable and may perform well if your joints are thin enough (check with the manufacturer for joint widths).
@@iamahardscaper Thanks!
Would you use 1" or even 0.5" of HPB bedding (over A gravel) for a driveway application? I may also put a geo layer between the two. Thoughts?
Check out our latest video talking about this. If the joints are small, I’d probably use concrete sand. If not, I prefer to use HPB. 1” is fine and not necessary to have a layer of geo.
When using HPB for paver bedding how much compaction are you getting with a plate complactor?
We lay pavers and compact after installing jointing compound. The pavers settle a very small amount. 1/16” to 1/8”
@@iamahardscaper Thansk for the info and great channel. I'm starting a project next week and you have all the answers I need. Super helpful.
@@iamahardscaper would you please give me your email address or phone number? Started a walkway pavers project and got into big issues. I really need a professional advice and would like your word on it. Love your videos! Thanks a lot!
Thank you! Glad it is helping
For that front walkway where you used hpb as the full base how deep was your base?
I don’t recommend that. We do our bases a minimum 6”.
Hi! Why do you not recommend using HPB for the entire base? You said you did for the one walkway, but haven’t since. Could you elaborate on why you do not? Thanks!
I did that because it was what I was told that you could do at the time. But in reality, the finer aggregates do not have the structural integrity to be able to bear the loads that the pavement will experience.
@@iamahardscaper so you can use 6" 3/4 clean fracture gravel and then the 1/4 inch right on top or always filter cloth first?
Thanks for your video. Is there a maximum depth that you'd go when using hpb? Is there any detriment in using 4"or 6"for that matter?
I wouldn’t go more than 1.5”. It is meant as a bedding layer and doesn’t have the bearing capacity to be a base material
@@iamahardscaper Right, but if I'm putting it on a base of 3/4 clear (6" deep) with landscape fabric in between, what will happen? Will it sag over the years? The pavers that I'm planning to put are pedestrian only
Why not use silica sand?
Silica sand I believe is used for infill on artificial turf. Concrete sand would be the alternative to this. It is fine in some applications, but this stuff is easier to work with
When using concrete sand, do you compact the pavers before spreading polymeric? How much do the pavers usually drop after all compaction?
I compact after the first sweep in of polymeric sand. They will usually drop upwards of 1/4" per 1" of sand.
With damp sand correct? I should avoid using bone dry sand right?
I am not so concerned about the sand's moisture content when screeding it. Typically there is enough moisture in it once screeded to go ahead an lay on top without adding any more water.
One question? I'm working with soil that is very sandy and/or muddy and "squishy". I want to put pavers down in a way that they stay relatively level and don't sink so much. It's not a high end aesthetic kind of patio to entertain people, but more of a solid base to hold grills and a hard plastic wading pool of about 9 foot diameter and 300 gallons or so. I figure dig it down 6 inches or so? Layer of some kind of semi permeable fabric. Should I just use hpb or should I put down a first layer of #73 or #11 or something like that topped by HPB and then the concrete pavers? Will I need to get a compactor and one or more stages?
If it is squishy, I would wait a little for it to dry up if there was snow. And then do an amendment with 3/4" angular crushed stone and Portland cement, about 50lbs per 100 square feet just sprinkling it around. Give that a good compaction into your subsoil, but not too much. This will draw out the moisture in that soil. Then use a non-woven geotextile, 6" of base material (3/4" angular crushed clean or 3/4" minus) and 1" of HPB. Compact the base in lifts according to your compactor, 1" per 1,000 lbsforce that the compactor is capable of. Hope that helps!
@@iamahardscaper Awesome, thank you! What do you mean by compacting in lifts? Years ago I used to work in a business where we rented a lot of compactors, but I only ever used one once. Do I compact the 3/4 base and then the HPB on top of it or both together or just the larger stone?
No problem! If you have a compactor that can only do 2" of compaction at a time, only install 2" of base material and then compact before installing another 2" and compacting. Every 2" is a lift. That is if your compactor is rated for 2,000 lbsforce. Compact the base according to that, screed your HPB (don't compact), lay pavers, install jointing compound, compact to consolidate the jointing compound, top up jointing compound.
If you go to our Hardscape Installation playlist, there are videos on each of these steps in detail and an overall video that breaks it down step-by-step.
@5:30: Is it a Canadian thing to mispronounce asphalt as ash-phalt?
😂 no that’s a me thing
Can’t seem to find this in florida! Any tips on how to locate?
Florida will definitely be tough to find this. Call around to landscape suppliers, quarries, and if there is no luck, begin to request it. Talk to other local contractors and have them do the same. If there is demand for it, they will fill it.
Isn't this just an equivalent of 3/4" clean/washed crushed stone, aka #57? You mentioned it's a marketing term for a Canadian company, is "clear" just a Canadian way of saying "clean" or "washed"?
No the marketing term for it is HPB. It is 1/4” clean. Meant as a bedding layer on top of 3/4” clean
@I Am a Hardscaper ah gotcha. Layered approach, makes sense. It's similar to how we build water drainage under sand volleyball courts.
oh nice. So you would use 3/4" clear and then some sort of fabric on top to then install the sand for the court?
@I Am a Hardscaper pretty much, yea. A lot of times, places will just install a small layer of pebbles under the sand, but I always liked the drainage better with the layers. Lowest layer is larger crush rock, followed by a layer of smaller crushed rock, then the fabric, then the sand. Grade the ground to a corner as well, and you can put in an additional small drainage pipe from the corner away from the court.
Can’t find this
Where are you located? It’s harder to find the more south you are
@@iamahardscaper in Florida I know. Everything is sand set down here and I just don’t like it. (Moisture up against marble pavers) most I can find is 3/8 chip which might be tough to screed (mixer)
Thx for responding most appreciated
Hi!! We are trying to DIY our interlock and have a question. Do we need to place anything between the (3/4") base and the HPB? Ex. Any textile/mesh material
Nope
@@iamahardscaper Thanks!
Hi, i am extending my driveway by laying interlock. I did put some 3/4 gravel clear as base. Do you recommend to use limestone screening or HPB on top of gravel ?
If you used 3/4 clear you should definitely use HPB
@@iamahardscaper thanks for your prompt reply, I asked this question because in other video you suggest use dense materials if no joint between pavers and beside driveway for similar material. If I use HPB, what will be the minimum width of joint to ensure polymeric sand reach out to the bottom of paver and do you recommend to use edge restraint to contain HPB bedding ?
TIA
Yes for the edge restraint. You will want to use a concrete edge restraint or there is an aluminum edge restraint with wedges for open graded bases. You'd want a 1/4" joint or greater for the pavers to be properly seated into the HPB.
Do you compact the 1/4 or you compacte the pavers?
Compact the pavers with a protective pad
Can u use stone dust with concrete sand can u mix them?
Nope
Thanks for the video! What's the guidance on the depth of the 3/4" rock? I've excavated at least 14" down to clear root mass for a patio and was planning to build up the pad with class 5. After this video, I'm interested in using the 3/4" base and HPB, but haven't seen what the height recommendation/limit is. Also worth asking, with a ~90% lock down, how does this compare with a sand bedding, which can usually be expected to compress 1/4" to 3/8" with a plate compactor? Also curious what the compression might look like for slab work that requires a roller compactor. Thanks! 😊
Depth is same as the class 5 base. This will compact slightly around 1/8”
@@iamahardscaper Great! Thank you! Given the depth of excavation, I'm considering building up the pad with class 5 and then transitioning to the 3/4" rock and HPB. If I end up doing 10" or more of class 5, is there any need to worry about using geogrid if each lift is properly compacted? Surrounding soil, which was also excavated, will be lifted as well in the process.
I also have step units and a paver platform to integrate and I'm having a hard time seeing how to use the rock for the step units that are supposed to laid on grade. Can we use the HPB over class 5 without an issue or should we stick with the typical pairings (class 5/sand vs. 3/4" rock/HPB)?
I still always like to add geogrid somewhere. HPB works on top of class 5
@@iamahardscaper Thanks again! Is there a similar 1/8" compression with the HPB over class 5 when compacted, or is there another number to factor into my measurements?
Yes, as long as the base is properly compacted prior to installing the HPB.
I currently have road crush which has been graded and compacted, would you put a layer of geo fabric over the area before the HPB prior to laying the patio stones? Or just use the HPB directly on the compacted road crush prior to laying the pavers?
I use it right on top, no geotextile
@@iamahardscaper the reason I ask is because initially I was going to go with an open grade and excavate down to 8 inches, because the area had about 4" of pea gravel over geo fabric, when the pea gravel was hauled away we realized there was already 4 to 5 inches of compacted road crush. My hard scaper suggested just leaving the compacted road crush and then top up with more road crush and then compact to mimic final grade. At no point was new geo fabric put down that's why I was asking about that before the HPB. Or should the compacted road crush be okay to keep down weeds???. Thanks for your reply
Weeds are not the problem. Weeds will grow from top down, no from the bottom up. The geotextile is for added stabilization and separation.
Great video! I've been using concrete sand on a compacted road base aggregate, and am thinking of switching to HPB (again on road base) because 1) As a DIYer I keep finding that I can't lay as many pavers as I hoped in a day, leaving my beautiful, level, fragile sand bed exposed to damage overnight, and 2) I keep having to match my pavers up to existing slabs and the unpredictable amount of settling on final compaction with sand means I don't know if I got the paver height right until I am basically done with the job. Is HPB indeed a good solution for these? Would HPB work as a bedding under pavers on a residential driveway?
Thank you! It is a good alternative for many reasons, but addressing your points.
1) it can still be damaged overnight if someone walks through it. But rain won’t affect it like it would sand.
2) you get much less compaction of pavers with HPB so it’s nicer to work with.
I’ve used it many times for wider joint pavers on residential driveways. If it is a tight joint residential driveway you may want to stick with concrete sand. You still want that bedding layer to creep up into the joints upon final compaction.
Thank you for your videos! Have subscribed and learned a lot. i'm about to start a small circular paver patio -about 8 feet in diameter- using HPB and the synthetic base (Brock Paver Base). You mention only using synthetic base on an existing grade...not sure what you mean. the Brock Paver video says to make a 1/4" grade per foot. If i create that grade over the 8 foot diameter, should it be ok? Thank you again!
Yup! 1/8" to 1/4" per foot slope for your patio. What I mean about being able to lay on the existing grade is that if your yard slopes significantly, you cannot lay your patio at that 1/4" per foot slope so you would have to build a raised patio.
@@iamahardscaper ah! Got you. Thank you so much!!
@@iamahardscaper Thank you again for your reply! Last question, you use quarter inch clear stone. My supplier only has 3/8 inch, number nine. Would that work by itself instead of the quarter inch?
Yup, 1/4 to 3/8 is good 👍
@@iamahardscaper thanks so much!!
Cheers from Vancouver!
What would you use under a wall?
Today's video covers this:
czcams.com/video/BFb8lZ_mGYs/video.html
What is your opinion of using the old pavers under the new pavers?
Can’t see that working as intended
As intended? The idea is that contractors don’t have to shift the old pavers off site and save on fill of course personally I didn’t like the idea or motivation.
it is a corner that is being cut. Gravel pits meet specifications on aggregates and that is why they are used. I would not count on a contractor being able to get those specs right on site.
I can’t found 1/4 hon Can I use 3/8
Yup, 1/4" to 3/8"
7:35 what about asphalt?
Asphalt for a bedding layer?
@@iamahardscaper will it work ? I’ve seen guys here in Texas use it even mix it with old bags of big big store concrete as bedding
There is a spec for asphalt as a bedding layer by ICPI. I’ve never used it or even seen it be used. But it can be used, yes
Nothing can beat concrete sand 😲
🤫😂
Can't understand half the words you're using
🫢