Jetboil is a Waste. Here's Why.
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
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The Stoves in this video:
BRS-300: amzn.to/45KGUV2
AOTU: amzn.to/45M3ahm
Camping Moon XD-2F: amzn.to/4d08gJt
Soto Windmaster: amzn.to/4eMuwba
Jetboil Flash: alnk.to/5FaD1iF
Jetboil Minimo: alnk.to/dLhu8PV
MSR Reactor: alnk.to/6bUTXMn
MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe: alnk.to/9T8OyVr
Toaks 750 ml pot: amzn.to/3XKr0YY
My go-to backpacking gear list:
Tent: alnk.to/dewIvwL
Backpack: bit.ly/3wyt9eD
Ultralight Quilt: bit.ly/49DyIqm
Sleeping Mattress: bit.ly/48q8re7
Pillow: alnk.to/2uGpU7b
Adventure Hat: bit.ly/43LodQ9
Camp Chair: alnk.to/2uGuTWj
Water Filter: bit.ly/48NaAAR
Headlamp: bit.ly/46iEsE1
Trekking Poles: bit.ly/3Q9QlGk
Hyperlite Camera Case: bit.ly/3QCa3MF
Cookpot: bit.ly/3OnddkO
FlipFuel Canister device: bit.ly/3EcUsvP
First Aid Kit: bit.ly/455arrv
Baselayer Top: bit.ly/4bfNZ26
Alpaca Wool Midlayer: bit.ly/3QjbKgb
Alpaca Beanie: bit.ly/3InQItv
Puffy Jacket: alnk.to/clWR5Ik
Hardshell Jacket: bit.ly/45t77X1
Hiking Belt: bit.ly/3KBHFXf
Hiking Pants: bit.ly/3ULaK8s
Hiking Underwear: bit.ly/3s7bett
Jetboil is one of the most popular stoves on the market. But they cost a huge sum compared to much lighter and smaller options. Before you buy your next camping or backpacking stove, make sure you watch this video.
Most of the links above are affiliate links, which means I earn a small commission on qualifying purchases at no extra cost to you. It's a great way to support creators you enjoy!
Want to collaborate with me? Send inquiries to erichanson@thestation.io
Glad to see a lively discussion in here! For those who say it's not a fair comparison, towards the end I bring up that a pot is needed with the small stoves. I found a $26 Toaks 750 ml titanium pot. So for about $45 you can nest a fuel canister, stove, lighter inside and is much smaller than the Jetboil.
To me, the biggest concern with the cheap stoves is the potential for labor ethics. I'm not saying they're made with questionable labor. It's just that if it's made in China it's very difficult to know one way or the other. Without visiting factories I can only speculate.
The price of backpacking gear can be overwhelming, let alone figuring out what's good and what isn't. I think stoves are the first place backpackers who want to save money should save money. As a $13 stove will perform approximately equivalent of a vastly more expensive option. The same cannot be said with most other pieces of gear. So if budget is a barrier for you in backpacking, just get a super cheap stove. My hope is that backpacking can be as accessible as possible to as many people as possible.
Thanks for coming to my TEDtalk.
I think that's a fair assessment 👍
Well said Eric! I agree. The wish for all of us, is to share our love and passion of the outdoors with our loved ones. Unfortunately price is a barrier to outfitting a group so continue on in your preaching of good affordable gear that will get more people into the backcountry!
This is a slightly better way to say it than saying they are a SCAM in big letters in the thumbnail. Those “big fancy brand names” put in the R & D to develop these products, just to have their IP stolen by bargain basement brands operating in places where they are shielded from the consequences. I agree that camping is expensive and people need affordable options, but those of us who can afford to support the companies who are innovating (and likely have much less horrible labour records) should do so. Making budget gear recommendations for beginners is one thing, but shit talking the companies who have been making gear for and supporting the outdoors community for decades and calling their products a scam is just bad behaviour, and is particularly hard to swallow from CZcamsrs who recommend absurdly expensive beds that cost $1000 +. Will you change your mind about Zenbivy and call them scam artists too once the real scam artists rip them off? You can do better than this.
The investment bias is strong here.
It’s like with heaters. Heat is heat. It’s just physics. You burn gas and it produces heat equivalent to the calorific value of the fuel. There isn’t a lot you can do to change that. If it’s windy you might spill some of that heat away from the pot. The sleeve on a jet oil probably contributes the most efficiency and then likely to be pretty marginal.
Size and expense are important. But I'd be upset if I designed a good stove and the Chinese ripped off my idea. I don't like supporting thieves.
Not just China. Primus was the first to allegedly infringe on Jetboil's patents. Jetboil decided to not pursue legal action which seems to have opened the door.
I don’t find a whole lot of difference between chinese ripoff or made in china by American company that then inflates the price 6 to 100xs what it cost them. I see this as ripping off the consumer. Maybe if they only charged double what the Chinese ripoff charges I might buy from the American company. Now if it’s 100% made in America or Europe and they charge 3xs what the Chinese ripoff does, I would buy the American or European made one.
So…. You don’t pay taxes?
@@lisaphares2286well put!
I agree with you. I bought the BRS because it was original and innovative. I bought a 3FUL Lanshan 2 tent because no other tentmaker made a tent with quite the same features. But I won't buy a Chinese knockoff of a good, original product, even if it costs me three times as much. That's why when I was looking at twig stoves I wouldn't buy the Solo because it is a rip off of the Bushmaster.
I've been a JetBoil user since 2002. It's gone on virtually every backpacking adventure. Considering it includes the pot, stove, windscreen, cup and everything in a small compact piece it's worth it. Everything in one place instead of searching through my bag. I don't trust those knockoffs, and you still need to bring everything else. Put the real savings to tents and other gear where the markups are ridiculous.
Agree. Plus, you can pack the Jetboil can itself to the top with the gas canister and other cooking essentials such that the "bulk" issue is negligible. In addition, the Jetboil heats water very efficiently, saving precious gas. Focusing so much on the price is wrong-headed. My Jetboil has lasted for years.
@@psyched901 It's ruthlessly efficient when it comes to cooking - one small cannister lasts for a long time, so less fuel is needed.
I agree, Jetboil has been the best for me, burnt myself twice with the BRS and Toaks pot. I’ll carry the extra weight with the Jetboil for the features and comfort.
Just because it isn't jetboil doesn't mean it's a knockoff
You sounds like a tin foil hat person. You have missed the point of this video entirely! It’s about how ridiculous expensive these products are and for what? Nothing!
Comparing like for like:
Weight: Pocket rocket+titanium pot = about 6oz, Jetboil zip: about 10oz
Cost: Pocket rocket+titanium pot = about $80, Jetboil zip: about $100
So sure, the backpacking gear is lighter and cheaper, but not like ridiculously so. The Jetboil is more efficient so might let you carry less fuel. It also works well in wind without a windscreen. So, I wouldn't call it a scam. It seems priced about right for what you get.
Thank you for making a more direct a fair comparison than a lot of the conversations that gloss over the fact that one price includes a pot and one doesn't. I was glad that Eric brought that up. There's also something to be said for the pleasure of using a better built tool as well.
@@RebeccaCoffeeAndCatsbrs 15$ toaks750 25$ I have 100 bucks left and you can’t tell me quality is not there… we all like to justify our purchase, me included…
Also have to take into consideration the fact that the jet boils cup mates with the burner and won’t slide off. If you’ve been backpacking for a while, you’ve definitely have had that happen on the backpack style burners.
Exactly this
@@matt_w brs 15$ toaks pot 25$...
I have a Jetboil Minimo, Soto Windmaster 3flex, and BRS. The details of the trip dictate which one I take: what area I'm in, my itinerary, if I'm with other people, how long is the trip etc. They all have their pros and cons, and have a place in my various gear lists 🙂
If I can get 24 boils off one 110g can with a Jetboil but only 8 - 10 boils with the BRS stove, you need to add an addition can and a half of fuel to the BRS to get the same amount of boils making the BRS a heavier stove now. Also know that the little canisters aren't cheap, the fuel inefficiency cost adds up, so the BRS is also more expensive. Plus add a pot of equal volume to the lineup there, a stove is no good without the pot, Plus canister support, with Jetboil I'd argue that a canister support isn't necessary, and consider your pot sliding off the stove and going hungry for the night, jetboil is a much better deal, or a jetboil knockoff.
Hungary? 😂
I can get 10 days easily out of a single 110 canister and a BRS. Just a 550 pot a BRS a mini-bic and a canister is all I take so it all nests and it’s super light and tiny. So that’s always going to be better (and lighter and smaller) than any jet boil set-up for me, as I’m never going out for more than 7 days any more! Depends what your needs are in the end!
@@dcaudwell true
@@dcaudwell100% right on. If out longer I resupply anyway w/ food.
Pretty sure a direct comparison ( as opposed to mfr claims) would reveal not that great a difference. Heat is heat. It’s not that much more efficient - and I’m skeptical it’s any more efficient. Plenty of new hikers on the trail a bit disappointed their jet boils came nowhere close to the claims.
I love my Jetboil. It has served me well for the last 15 years. I don't usually cook, just use it for heating water. If I heat on low, I can make one small canister last 9 or 10 days. They were made in the USA back then. I try to buy my gear made in USA, ethical, or USED.
I'm old school and have never bought into the idea that the newest great idea is the way to go. There is no way I would ever carry disposable or even refillable canisters. I carry my Seva 123 that has been around since about 1960 based on technology going back to 1898. The only problem is that every 50 years you have to replace the gasket in the tank lid. The Seva 123 fits in my one-quart Sig pot with room to spare. If they group is two or three I can nest the two quart Sig pot. Runs on white gas and is bomb proof. I have used it on backcountry cross country ski trips at minus 20 F. Built in gas tank, no canister to screw on and take off. When someone talks about their lightweight stove and does not include the filled canister, they are being very deceptive.
Eric, videos like this are the exact reason I subscribed to you. You bring up the ethics of buying cheap (and sometimes not!) and bringing healthy skepticism towards popular products. I have really enjoyed seeing you continue to evolve your channel, making it unique and stand out from others while also doing some of the same. Thank you genuinely!
I left Jetboil about 9 years ago. I shifted to a Pocket Rocket 2, and then a BRS. I ran with those for about a year to 18 months. Then i discovered alcohol stoves. I started using a Zelph Fancee Feest stove exclusively until about 3 years ago. I still carry it, but 4 years ago I started using debris stoves. I dabbled with puzzle stoves briefly, then found the Firebox Nano Ti and it became a constant in my kit. 2 years ago I bought a Firebox Freestyle and it is my standard now. I still carry my alcohol stove, but as a backup for my Freestyle.
I love the free fuel, and quiet cook. I'm not in a hurry, so boil times don't impress me. That's all Jetboil has to offer for that price.
Plus a fast boil wastes fuel! So Jetboil doesn’t even work in real life from that point of view either.
I wanted to comment the same thing; but comments are turned off now?I agree; free fuel in a firebox is best, but in rainy Oregon here we need another option for fuel. Looking at titanium alcohol stoves to use with the firebox.
Also if in an area that is under fire restrictions you can sometimes only use canister stoves so those stoves are out including alcohol stoves.
@@pyronymph-868 That's what I carry the Fancee Feest for. I also sometimes take my Trangia, since you ca store fuel in it ... and they are inexpensive.
@@erniewill You can use alcohol in TX during a burn ban because it's a controlled device. No to the Firebox during a burn ban, but alcohol still allowed.
I use a Jetboil Minimo, but have certainly looked at other options.
Jetboil includes a stove, pot, pot lid/strainer, pot cozy, bowl, and fuel canister stand.
It's not all that expensive when you consider what is included.
My main moral qualm with buying really cheap options off Amazon is that they were likely made in sweatshop-like conditions where workers are in hazardous environments and not adequately paid for their work. I would like to believe that the costs of Jetboil is going toward good working conditions and more ethical business practices (regardless of the actual location they are made), but it still is more expensive than I am willing or able to pay. The MSR Pocket Rocket seemed like a good, reliable middle ground where I can have some assurance that it wasn't built in a sweatshop without breaking the bank.
I’ve had the MSR pocket rocket for a while now and I love it. If carrying a lighter puts you off you can get a handheld MSR piezo ignitor for another 10$ (I got mine at REI).
The thing about that is, I bet reality is, that the choice is that, or no work at all. At least they have something. Not saying it's right, but I reality is, is that or nothing.
I've visited outdoor product factories in China and I can tell you they are not sweat shops, the workers are treated as well as any factory in the west. Often they are not allowed to work for more than 6 days in a row, often the maximum they can work is 10 hours at any time and I know here in the UK and probably in the US people often work more than this.
The manufactures realise to get a good product their staff have to be well trained and treated pretty well. I'm not sure about other countries or clothing factories but in the tent, equipment factories they are way more western in their standards than you would ever realise.
A lot of big brands are worse. Just saying.
You don’t think the same conditions apply for these high priced manufacturers. They may claim the assembly in U.S. or with socially responsible off shore assemblers but I bet the materials or the machining or some part of the process is with unknown labor.
Quality assurance does cost money. I've seen plenty of people post about the BRS deforming from the heat. I've never seen anyone post a deformed MSR or Soto stove with such damage.
MSR Dragonfly. It may be bulky but it works year round and there's no waste created. Simply add fuel. Multiple types too. Works great for all kinds of cooking, self repairable and just the way to go. Especially in winter. Not something for thr-hikers but it's the bomb for us weekend warriors and winter campers. For long summer hikes, I'll just take a little alcohol stove. That's all that's needed to heat water anyway.
After traveling overseas and not being able to find canister gas, I bought a MSR Whisperlite Universal, and I carry it everywhere. Weekends, through-hikes, you name it, it's gone with me. It's heavier/bulkier than most, but I've never had an issue with it, and I can use it anywhere in the world.
Great points, but don't forget that for some of us who bought the Jetboil years ago, KEEPING it and continuing to use it costs less than buying ANYTHING new.
Excellent point. There’s a lot to be said for using a quality product for years and years, rather than falling for consumerism sometimes
I got my MSR pocket rocket before it went up to $50. Dehydrated meals have improved so much it’s just easier for me to repack meals, heat and add water.
Got my attention. I needed to hear this from a person I trust. I was hung on the top wire. If I had the opportunity I would determine how the stove might fail then determine how it can maintenanced or repaired. Ideally, disassembly and simple repair parts would be the cats meow. I'm a solo extreme remote ultralight hiker who needs the confidence that one water heater will suffice. 1-2 Oz is the new maximum mass limit now. Quite frankly ideal stoichiometric range of lpg is somewhere between 14.7:1 - 15.6:1, Air to fuel ratio.
However, with the altitude increase it's not possible to achieve this without increasing pressure back up to standard atmosphere. I know that forcing air works perfectly. I sometimes wonder if compressed oxygen would be much benefit or practical. Those little 5 gram cylinders can easily hold 700 psi of oxygen. A simple regular adjustable in 3000' increments up to 15000' msl would be the cats meow. Be interesting to hear from a real BTU heating engineer. 😊
I am glad to see your reasoning. I make the same transition. I started with the MSR Wisperlight back in the 90s, bomb proof but extremely heavy. Jetboil purchase was in the 2000s. Then in 2010s I went to the PocketRocket to eventually got myself a BRS 2 years ago. The only problem I have found with the BRS is the wind. I almost had a bad experience when I ran out of fuel. Fortunately it was for breakfast on the last day and it was for my coffee. Lets just say it was lukewarm.
I have found a solution to that. I saw a video from the GearSkepic on stove efficiency and he said that based on his tests that the BRS combimed with the FlatCat Ocelot BSR windscreen is lighter and more efficient in the wind that the Soto Windmaster. I can attest that this is true based on my last backpacking trip with it. I only used about 6g of fuel to boil 16oz of water. Also I found a sticker to place on my Toaks mug that tells the temperature of the water because GearSkeptic pointed out that the temperature for re-hydrating freeze dried meals doesn't need to get to boiling to re-hydrate it. I found this temperature sticker from a guy who sells them on his website call Rex-Creations. I hope that this helps in your cook system evolution.
I took a trip a few weekends ago out to the pacific coast and I was the only one in my group without a jetboil. One person even had a French press for his jetboil. I think it’s mostly marketing hype. But my tiny stove and fuel canister did exactly what I needed it to do.
You bring up great arguments and show there is no best ever stove. Each has a place and each person gets to choose something that fits them best. I used the MSR Windburner for years, but decided I was over the size/weight. I changed to a titanium pot with the Soto Windmaster and could not be happier.
Despite the size of the JetBoil, few things bring me more joy than having French Press on trail. That reason alone is 80% why I still hike with a JetBoil Java.
Hard to clean, makes everything you cook in it coffee infused, makes you coffee food infused if you cook food in it. I feel it's better simply to bring an aeropress or quality instant coffee.
@@DyceFreak Personally I’ve never found it to make my dehydrated food coffee flavored in any way. The pot doesn’t really have a scent at all after being washed out.
Regarding cleaning though I don’t find it particularly troublesome to wash out properly. But I’m also not in a dry climate, so water consumption is less of an issue.
@@DyceFreakaeropress is easy to clean. Yeah it takes up space but it’s easier than my old percolator.
Stanley makes a great French press that is an acceptable size and weight (for me) for backpacking. Bonus that it can serve double duty as a general use pot. Certainly not going to keep the ultralight crowd happy but i suspect no French press in existence would 😂
Since 1997 I've used the same MSR Whisperlite for all my backpacking trip. When flying, I bring the MSR Pocket Rocket. Both great stoves.
The BRS is one of the few exceptions to the "Good/Light/Cheap - Pick any 2" rule. I love it. That said, I did get a Soto Amicus as a gift, and while not quite as small or light, it does seem to be more efficient in that it boils water more quickly, (though it might just use the same amount of fuel, but faster) and has decent wind protection. I get the appeal of the jetboil for people who aren't concerned about weight/bulk or price, but it was not in the cards for me.
I love my MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe with a small pot to boil water. That’s all I need
The setup missing from this video is the Fire Maple Petrel. I've never used a jetboil, but I suspect the Petrel is very close without the bulk.
I just took the fire maple petrel out and was amazed that it's light, very compact, and adjusted it to my AOTU to fit. It heat to boil was fast! 😮 I personally think the petrol is better than the jetboil.
I like my alcohol stoves quite a bit more these days and when I’m just boiling water I’ll use my caldera cone with a toaks 750 pot and when I want to do some actual cooking I’ll bring along my Trangia 27 cookset. It’s a little on the bulky/heavy side but it sure does cook a steak well!
Have you gone thru the Firemaple product line? I don’t have any stuff yet except the candle but it looks reasonable
I have the AOTU stove (under a different brand name - seems that one changes every few years) and it's great. Never failed me and it's what got me started in backpacking. One of my brothers has the Jetboil. It's a great system and boils water in about half the time of my little no-name stove. Is that 2 minutes a big deal? Nope.
I received a MSR pocket rocket 2 for Christmas this past year and it is SO NICE. Really nice upgrade. My son is now the proud inheritor of my original stove and I fully expect it to serve him well. People spend so much time obsessing over what gear is best when they could just get out there with something that works and slowly upgrade over time.
Nice video. What’s your favorite cooking pot? What's its size, material, etc.?
Both msr pocket rockets are currently made in Korea, FYI. I know nothing about labor conditions anywhere, just saying in case it's relevant. My 15 year old pocket rocket is still going strong so I can put off the decision for now.
It's great to see the Campingmoon get some attention. My cook kit is the Toaks 750ml and the Campingmoon stove. Never had any issues, the boil time is super quick, and everything fits in the pot.
I love how I never see a true size/weight/price comparison. I want to see someone find a stove, cup, pot, pot holder, and fuel can and have it all stored in a bag or container together and then compare it all. That is the only fair way. But the truth is that if they do, it may be $20-40 cheaper or a few grams lighter but never worth loosing the stability or convenience or fuel savings of the jet boil
When comparing prices you at least need to add the cost of a comparable pot along with the stove burner for a fair comparision.
I do exactly that towards the end of the video. $26 for a Toaks 750 ml pot brings the total to $39 with the Aotu stove, $43 for the BRS + pot. etc.
@@eric_hanson I was too quick. 😬
I just picked up the new fire maple with the flux ring for like $15 - it rocks! And with my Soto, I would challenge the fuel efficiency of any of the Jetboil systems.
I also have the OliCamp XTS, also a solid pot.
Fact: the JetBoil Micro Mo, has a regulator on the burner. I take the smallest 4oz fuel can on the Great Divide route and it will last almost a week. Since the Micro Mo simmers I can cook Knorr packs or Ramen noodles from a gas station. Plus the Micro Mo complete system is as small and light as a Pocket Rocket, Ti cup, extra fuel, and windscreen. And it boils water in 85 seconds. Hot enough for coffee in 60 seconds. Backpacker 50 years, started with a brass Svea in 1972, and have tried them all. ☮ Happy trails and pack your trash.
With the direct-from-China products (without the R&D, marketing or distribution overhead) out there, it’s certainly relevant to have them in the discussion. That said, I’d like to comment on three things that were not covered about the Windmaster vs. Campingmoon:
1. The Windmaster is a pressure regulator stove. The campingmoon stove has no statement about this function. Regulator stoves usually carry a $20-40 premium.
2. The Windmaster has a unique piezo design that has been documented by several online reviews to be the most reliable in the industry. It is also user serviceable and you can buy just the piezo from Soto, if needed. It’s visually obvious that campingmoon is using a more generic piezo component.
3. The Windmaster is made in Japan. I have a few knockoff stoves and the craftsmanship difference is noticeable with the Soto stoves. Labor costs are higher as well. And Soto has to support support distribution to both physical stores internationally and online. Plus they employ their own engineers to develop unique products like the Windmaster, rather than just copying other designs.
I have had the same brs stove for 9 years and its still going strong! Combine with my Olicamp xts pot for wind protection, it has been a great little system.
I just bought a "MSR PocketRocket Deluxe Ultralight Camping and Backpacking Mini Stove Kit" at about USD110. It is like the Camping Moon XD-2F+Toaks 750 ml pot, and the price is not too far off too. It comes with a cup and travel sack, so not too bad.
Let’s talk about alcohol stoves… Cheaper, lighter, quieter, smaller, diy...
I just don’t understand the world’s love affair with the gas cannister to be honest! 😜 I can spare an extra couple of minutes for a boil when I’m camping. There’s no rush
I have gone through a lot of stoves as well and settled on two. I use a Bush Buddy for long trips without a fire ban where weight matters because it's a wood burner. For everything else, I use my little BRS. And I have had those piezo lighters fail so many times it didn't make sense to rely on it and if you should carrying a way to light your stove besides that built in piezo. Outdoor Element makes a nice little carabine with a built in striker, they call it a Firebiner. Handy and multipurpose.
I think it’s important to keep in mind that for some disabled individuals (such as myself) the stability that comes with systems like the jetboil one’s are necessary to prevent injury. I’m autistic and I have some coordination issues as well as tremors in my hands. I’ve injured myself a lot throughout my life, and I don’t think I could ever feel safe using one of the lighter weight stove systems. Some might think, “if you’re just careful, you’ll be fine,” but trust me: if you have a disability that causes coordination issues like mine, no amount of being careful will prevent accidents from happening. (I once poured boiling water directly onto my hand while making pour over coffee. I was paying attention, my hands sometimes jerk uncontrollably as they did then). Of course, I understand for most people, having the added stability won’t be necessary, but if anyone knows of a stove system that is still affordable and as stable as the jetboil system please let me know!
One of the girls on the AT now just bought her 2nd can of fuel and she credits that to her Jetboil, however you could buy a few cans of fuel, and probably carry them if you got a cheaper lighter stove!
The issue when you compare jetboils to these smaller stoves is that you forget to include the added size and cost of your pot or mug. When you break down a jetboil, everything fits into that pot. Possibly even the fuel can.
When you add on the cost and size of a titanium pot, the difference between that and a jetboil becomes negligible. And if your pot or mug is too small, you have to store it separately from your stove, fuel can, etc. and suddenly you have a system that is as bulky, if not bulkier than the jetboil.
And then there's the argument of buying cheap things that were made in sweatshop-like conditions, vs buying something for a premium that you KNOW was made in a safer working environment, by people who are receiving adequate pay, but that isn't my main concern.
I totally understand the concerns of the labor ethics involved. I'm not able to know working conditions for anything made in China, whether that's a rip off or a Jetboil factory. Maybe it's great and maybe it's shady. That's why I bring up the ethics even though I didn't spend tons of time on that subject as all I can do is speculate.
However I do talk about the pot being a factor too, it's just towards the end. You can buy a Toaks 750 ml pot for $26 and the BRS and Aotu stoves nest easily inside with a canister and is much smaller than the Jetboil.
My Toaks pot contains 1 canister, 1 lighter, one jetboil plastic canister foot, one BRS stove in its tiny stuff sack, AND a Toaks folding spoon… plus a bandanna to keep it all quiet. Totally self contained cooking and eating and the lid still fits.
Hi Eric, I'm a Jetboil owner and agree it could be a bit cheaper. However to be objective, take the price of your smaller cheaper stoves and add on everything the Jetboil brings and does and add that to your pricing, wind proofing, burning efficiency, stability space etc. In Australia we don't have the competitive pricing you do in the U.S. The Jetboil ticks the boxes as against buying a small stove, a support, a titanium mug, and wind protection. Add it all up and the Jetboil is your all in one go to, that is very price competitive. Yes we could buy off Amazon etc, however postage is ridiculous. Carry on. 👍🏾
" cheaper exists " doesn't mean something's a scam.
When I am motorcycle camping, I use the Fire Maple knockoff of the Jetboil. When I am backpacking, I use the AOTU. I have had the AOTU for over 6 years and never had an issue with it.
When I'm backpacking it's the BRS 3000 with a reflectix wind shield/sit pad, when I'm car camping I use the same propane burner that I use to brew 8 gallons of wort for beer. Gets dinner done in a flash even with wind.
I got a Mini-Mo for $99.... the thing slays. That being said... I also have a $5 Chinese BRS type canister mini stove, multiple alcohol stoves Trangia, Alocs, homemade, a OG MSR Pocket Rocket, and they all are worthy in different scenarios. I just went on a bike packing trip for 3 days where weight isn't even that big of a concern and I brought my MSR Pocket Rocket 1, and that new FireMaple Petrel 600 mL pot.... THAT is a pretty dope set up..... but I am never giving up the Mini-Mo... it's a great piece of kit for sure. NICE VID MAN!!
Good points. I've got one of those smaller ones. They are all basically the same. I like playing around with my pop can stove the most. It doesn't cook fast, but I'm out camping and enjoying the day. It's like dehydrating my own food. Tastes better.
Jetboil is great for family backpacking. My 12 year old can use it. It’s very stable. The stand helps and how it locks in. If it’s just me…Soto and Toaks. I don’t buy knock off because they’re never as good. Maybe close but I just want something I can trust. Oh! Jetboils go on sale all the time.
Ultra light tents are another scam. Compare the Nemo Hornet and the Nemo Hornet Elite and you realise, the elite use the same kind of material but it's less dense, you have more mesh and its more expensive...
Great video. I got a brs3000 and use it all the time. All other stoves stay at home.
I use a Trangia alcohol stove because it’s SILENT!!!😊 And you can find alcohol everywhere.
Love seeing your evolution. I got the Jetboil Minimo as my first stove for camping and enjoy it for car camping and canoe camping, especially paired with the skillet. Frankly, most outdoor stores (REI, EMS and mom-and-pop shops) only sell Jetboil and MSR, so I didn't look much further. But last year I picked up the BRS stove for UL backpacking and love it too. It's all about matching the right gear with each use case.
I've seen many reports of that campingmoon stove just stop flowing fuel after 1 or 2 uses. I'll keep my confidence in the tried and tested Windmaster. Remember you get what you pay for.
When I first started looking at camp stoves watched a bunch or reviews on different stoves. Came to the conclusion jetboil was insanely over priced. Ended up picking up the BRS 3000. That being said i also like to cook in just a camp fire when I can to conserve fuel. So I use a stanley pot to cook with, be it boiling water, heating up my own dehydrated meals or cooking knorr sides I can do that separately while I drink coffee out of my gsi cup the nest inside the stanley pot perfectly. Speaking of coffee I picked up a steel tea strainer I can add coffee to sit in my cup than pour my water into and let it steep. The stove, strainer, gsi cup and a 4 oz canister "fit" inside the stanley pot. Its a little heavy for probably most people but it was a cheap set up that's pretty versatile and just about bomb proof. It does however take a learning curve to cook without scorching some foods. I apologize for the long comment.
I've done long distance backpacking trips and have used the BRS 3000, the Aotu, Soto Windmaster, first version MSR Pocket Rocket, Jetboil Flash and Jetboil MiniMo. I went through the trials of finding the lightest stove and lightest pot but nowadays I use the Jetboil Flash for the ease of setup and convenience. I mainly use it to boil water but will occasionally cook some ramen. What I love about it is the ease of use. Boils water fast, fuel efficient, and most importantly, no frustration of the pot tipping over. The one negative thing is that the Piezo igniter on both my Flash and MiniMo are not working anymore and Jetboil stopped selling them to Piezo Igniter but I always carry a mini Bic lighter with me.
Oh yeah, probably good to mention pressure-regulated stoves vs non-regulated for those that uses them in cold temps and high elevation.
To everyone saying that its not that much cheaper once you buy a pot. I personally bought a BRS and a large titanium pot- from a local outfitter, plus a fuel can and lighter for under 45 dollars. Bought within the last year no sales
Does the Camping Moon actually have a micro regulator in it like the Windmaster?
I think the budget options and alcohol stoves are incredible and have their place in most situations. I got lucky and was given a Jetboil Stash and it's nice, I like it quite a bit. No striker though.. and they are getting too expensive.
Ouch. Harsh title.
I've never had a Jetboil, and I will never have a Jetboil.
I still have my original canister stove system from 1981. It's really stable. Even the rubber fuel hose is still in excellent condition. It's heavy for such a stove, but it's still such a nice stove that I'll sometimes bring it backpacking anyway. I definitely use it camping.
I have the BRS. It's okay. My wife used it on a recent trip we did. It has poor flame control, but boy is it light, compact and convenient if you're going to use a canister stove.
I also have a Dragon Stove which is NATO issue. It's a neat little stove. It's versatile. It works. It folds up nicely. It holds fuel inside it when it is stowed. Still, it's on the heavier side. It's not unbearably heavy by any means. It doubles as a twig stove and it triples as an Esbit stove.
I also have a very old MSR Pocket Rocket. It works perfectly well today, just like it did in 1980-something when I got it as a Christmas gift. It's on the heavy side, again, but it works really well.
My favorite stove is my Trail Designs Sidewinder TiTri. It is a combination twig stove, Esbit stove and alcohol stove.
It's a little less bulky than a JetBoil. It's pretty light. It has a nice case that doubles as two plastic drink cups that you can use for hot and cold foods and beverages. (I myself don't like to drink or eat out of plastic.) if you're willing to eat out of hot plastic, those make up for the bulk. They're really large size cups. Probably somewhere around 900 ml each. They are light.
I can't tell you how many times I was cold, or wet, or cold and wet, and I fired that thing up with twigs and had a crackling fire going that required minimal time to start, minimal effort to fuel, and is virtually endless in fuel.
There are times I have sat for hours under a tarp playing Yahtzee in one of those all-day downpours at drive-in campsites. That little twig so saved the trips.
If there's a site ban against twig stoves, I switch over to either Esbit or alcohol, depending on which I decide to carry.
As far as wood stoves go, this is the grand champion. It is much more efficient than other twig stoves, it's more stable than other twig stoves, and I believe it still holds the record for fastest boil time for a twig stove.
If you have ever had a twig stove before, let me assure you that this one is better and different and you'll enjoy using it a lot more.
It holds a lot more fuel. It can burn wet twigs, as long as you can get that fire started. I'll use fresh paper birch bark swatches, dried pine tree needles, or alcohol to get wet wood started.
Once I get a fire going, I can just keep adding wet twigs, and it works perfectly well.
(Never peel the bark off of birch all the way around the tree's circumference - it kills the tree.)
That's my stove story.
I agree with Eric arguments. It's not the price though, it's just the product. Jetboil is too bulky/heavy. Windscreen do not add enough comfort to be justified (strong wind will still turn it off/make it loose heat) - it is so much better to find a spot with no wind for cooking instead of having a windscreen. The neoprene envelope doesnt make sense, it's just weight. The chemical flame that tells you when water is boiling is not making sense, it's just an added cost. The ingniter doesnt work when it's humid and you need to ignite with a lighter anyway.
I think like a lot of other brands, Jetboil tries to cover all the needs a human being can possibly imagine with a cooking system, and I fell for them myself. Truth is when you are out on the field you understand those needs weren't real and the only thing you need is something that bursts fire.
I think there’s the appeal for a lot of people that they’re buying a name brand product. Sure you can buy a cheaper product, a lighter product… but if you’re starting out backpacking, you want something that people have tried and tested. That’s not to say that the cheap off brand stoves are bad, but psychologically there’s a reassurance that there’s a company you can more easily reach out to for support, and can be trusted for reliability. I won’t say I’ve never seen issues with the major players, but they’re pretty infrequent.
Ultimately the best stove is the stove YOU trust to get the job done. For the kind of camping I do I would roll the dice on a BRS and give it a try, but if I was going for longer and bigger trips, there’d be a pocket rocket in my setup.
Disclaimer: I’m an outdoor retailer (who sells Jetboil and MSR products), but these are my own opinions, and doesn’t reflect those of the company I work for.
Eric, I have the $13 stove from Amazon coupled with a 650ml cup oz for oz the way to go over the jet boil. The jet is the fastest but the Amazon is like 15 secs slower! As far as carry goes it is not the jet boil. I have dedicated it to car camping or deck use. Hope this helps.
People in China need to feed their families too, I wish all of the workers well over there. I own Chinese products I don’t regret buying (Naturehike, to stay in the camping and hiking realm)). The real problem is when they steal intellectual property; there are whole companies that exist solely because they steal designs (*cough cough - DJI - cough cough). Chinese industry should invest heavily in educating a new generation of industrial designers and design their own products.
Thank you so much for the refreshing outlook on stoves! The camping merchandisers want buyers to think that more expensive is better. You have so much common sense to offer on that front. We all need to stop and think about what will work for our budget and our needs.
Part of saving money on gear is buying gear that will last a few seasons.
I believe the campingmoon uses a few more grams of fuel per boil than the windmaster, looks like a good cheap option if you occasionally need more wind resistance but normally use the brs.
Considering the jetboil flash is $130 and includes a stove, a pot, a plastic cup, and a stand for your gas canister, it compares pretty nicely to the cost of the other options, especially since the pot stands far more stable on the stove than other options here. I even own a BRS just like you do that I got from grayl, but swore off of it after two uses where it was a massive balancing act with the pot. I haven't tried the Soto, and I'm interested in comparing it, but I don't think I'll ever feel the need since I love my minimo so much. It's more worth it for me too because I get pro deals on them 😅
I bought a jetfoil knock-off for 79 dollar a few years ago. It has a bit more volume than the jetfoil. It's great for shorter hikes or for canoeing or biking where weight is not so important and convenience and ability to easily cook a good meal is more important. The ultralight small stoves (i also have a cheap version) are not as nice for short hikes. They only make sense when weight and size are the most important thing.
Great video Eric! My opinion is the Jetboil cook systems are one dimensional, meaning they can only boil water and yes are clunky, heavy and expensive. I too use the BRS 3000 along with the Toaks 650 Light Ti pot. I cold soak often and discovered the plastic lid from a Chock-full of- nuts coffee can fits my Toaks 650 pot perfectly with the Toaks lid in place. The plastic lid creates a good seal for cold soaking and I no longer need the pot sack to keep everything together.
SUCH an important video! I'll probably stick with the pocket rocket for my program and personal use, as I love MSR, and it's about the same weight. For car camping though, I use a big standing Camp Chef stove, and a small rocket stove for boiling water. ;)
I agree with you about Jetboil. Obviously they are quality pieces of kit and they have trail-blazed some unique features. However, apart from being too expensive, too heavy and too bulky to make ideal backpacking stoves, it's the Jetboil mythology that irks the most. They are heavily marketed as being the fastest and most efficient stoves and yet speed and efficiency are diametrically opposed goals for any stove. If you go "full jet" with a Jetboil then, as with any stove, you lose efficiency. If instead you run it at 35-40% throttle then, like any stove, you maximize efficiency. You can't have both at the same time, and yet this is what reviewer after reviewer implies, and what user after user believes. Kudos then to the Jetboil marketing machine!
In reality running a stove for fuel efficiency means even the lowly BRS (my favourite too!) can get a week or more out of a single 110 cartridge. That means it'll get me between almost any two resupply points, at least any two that I'm going to be attempting. Having figured that out (and only needing to boil water on all my trips), I've now got a Toaks 550ml handleless pot, a BRS, a mini bic and a 110 canister - these all nest together and I don't think you can get a smaller, lighter, more real-life-efficient , 1 person gas canister set-up.
Hi Eric, you should really try the firemaple Petrel 600ml pot. It has replaced my jetboil, I believe you will love it too!
I have a BRS knockoff that I use for most warm weather trips. I have an MSR Pocket Rocket Delux that I use in colder shoulder season trips and an MSR Whisper Lite for winter camping. I like the BRS mostly because of its size. Everything fits nicely inside my Toaks, and doesn’t take up a whole lot of space in my food bag.
Not a fan of companies that rip off someone’s ideas or designs. Also, not a fan of “race to the bottom” manufacturing. If you buy these kinds of products, then you incentivize this behavior. It inhibits the development of new ideas and the manufacturing of higher quality products. Just cause it’s made in china doesn’t necessarily mean it’s bad or low quality. Chinese factories build to spec, so if it is low quality then the company specified low quality. One issue not mentioned was pollution. Much higher standards in some countries regarding waste disposal and energy production. The power to build that cheep Chinese stove likely came from a very dirty coal plant.
If patents are expired is it really a ripoff or knockoff?
i have the jetboil zip. i used to have a smaller fold out stove. that u used mess tins with.
i changed to the jetboil because the stove clips to the pot. this made it far easier and safer for me. im disabled now and the jetboil i can fill with water light it and then put it down on the groun next to me from my chair. or i can safly hold it on my lap.
it would not be safe for me to use the old one on my lap. wish jetboil was cheaper
I do own a JetBoil MiniMo that I found in the used/returned section at REI. Picked it up because I figured, for $75, it was worth it. I agree that it's really nice to work with, and I do bikepacking as my main activity, so weight/size is less of a concern. But still, my go to remains the simple PocketRocket 2 and that same $25 Toaks pot. It's just SO MUCH SMALLER. I grabbed a little MSR piezo igniter for a few bucks and I always have a lighter as backup.
Love our Jet Boil flash!!
Quick, light, reliable, efficient, like anything hiking related, it was expensive but after you buy it, then it’s paid for. We use it reasonably. To heat water for coffee (instant) and oatmeal. Wind wasn’t a concern. Mindful of the plastic lid. We have no reservations on our purchase. Just watch enough reviews before you make that purchase.
Have my flash for 4/5 years now and love it, it’s convenient, reliable and fast … so at least for me … was a good buy… for the majority of things buy cheap items is asking for disaster in the outdoors
High priced stoves are a status symbol and not a need.
I use an alcohol stove and have never had any issues with it, even at -2F.
It's quiet and the fuel is as cheap as it gets. Plus you don't have to carry a heavy metal fuel canister.
Yes! I agree 🙌🏼
I have never understood the worlds love affair with the gas cannister 😜
I learned years ago, by way of purchase, that Jetboil stoves are junk. The stove’s pin kept breaking. I switched to Snow Peak and haven’t had a problem in years.
possibly cheaper pots are more likley to leach metallic compounds into your food? ( corrosion / impurities in alloys etc)
I have 4 of those Walmart kits and I love them. for $12.89 they rock and I have a msr pocket rocket 2 that I have used many many times in the past 3 years, and it's never failed me . I recently got a GSI glacier camp stove and it seems to be the most stable due to the size of the burner. and it works extremely well if I took all the money I've spent on all 11 stoves I own I still couldn't buy a jetboil system. personally the type of hiking and camping I do, the jetboil system is useless to me. I'm sure it's a great stove but not for me.
Dwayne
I am a Jetboil fan. My only complaint is that when the igniter quits working, Jetboil's answer is to buy a new stove assembly. Yes, they offered up a 35% discount, but, a 3 dollar ceramic insulator would be the correct option. Too many companies today sourcing inventories from China should also source the poorly design stuff that will fail. The profit margin is surely there.
Just bought the Soto Amicus on sale because I didn’t want to get into the price range of the Windmaster. Now you pull out this Campingmoon stove😅. And yes while I would like to all in on my gear with the top of the line. I just don’t think it is feasible for a lot people to make that kind of commitment, especially when first building their kit. The cost of the gear is in my assumption the biggest gate keeper to people exploring many different activities.
I have a no-name Chinese stove ($9), a Jetboil Sumo ($130), and an MSR PocketRocket Deluxe ($70).
If in a bigger group (more than 2), I bring the Sumo. It's fast, consistent, flame tailor, and great in the wind; it's also heavier!
If it's just me, PocketRocket Deluxe is the go-to. It's consistent, lights every time, flame tailor, and doesn't spread on my pot or burn handles. Firemaple G3 Petrel 600ml pot has been a pleasant surprise!
The Chinese no-name usually goes to guests. 😊
Eric, I have been using the Jetboil Minimo for some time now and while the cost and weight are certainly important elements to any strove choice, the Minimo is a complete system with lots of options, I appreciate that more than saving a few ounces or a few dollars. Cooking is a joy with this system, as I have watched you do many, many times. Keep up the great work you do for us!
Thanks Peter! The Jetboil Minimo is satisfying to use. I mostly want people to know that stoves are a great place to save money as a backpacker. This is the first piece of backpacking gear I'd say going super cheap you will barely notice a difference. Going cheap elsewhere in your kit and you might really regret it.
I think there's sufficient comparison testing out there to suggest that the three best canister stoves on the market are the MSR PocketRocket Deluxe ($85), the SOTO Windmaster ($70), and the SOTO Amicus ($45). The cheap Chinese stoves will work, but they also waste an incredible amount of fuel compared to the MSR and SOTO stoves. The Amicus w/o igniter is my personal choice.
This is ambitious, but I would love to see a channel really explore the MYOG idea. For instance getting sponsored by Ripstop By the Roll and then making your own quilt to see how it holds up to a major brand.
Great video! Couldn’t agree More.. I use a lightweight stove with a stainless steel camp set from Gearland I found on Amazon. Well under $40 for the whole kit and light weight.
I'm still happy with jetboil and hanging kit, coffee press. Perfect solution cookset.
Not lighter than others but comfy.
Been rocking my BRS for 4 years now. It’s a little inefficient but if anyone is worried about quality, you’re better off worrying elsewhere.
I have an MSR Pocket Rocket 2. I have a brand loyalty to MSR and like American made. Over the like 10 years I've owned it the price point per year between it and China knockoff is very small.
I also gave up on windscreens. I have just gone with finding a protected place and augmenting with my hands if needed to protect from wind for the 2-3 minutes until my water boils. I don't turn the stove up all the way. If I do too much heat shoots out away from my Toaks and uses more fuel to do this. Also I started drinking instant coffee (Waka) so the water has to be just hot enough. I have a transfer valve so I always leave with a full small can and come back with fuel.
I love my flash. I only paid $40 for it at Gander Mountain when the chain was going out of business and liquidating their inventory. No way I'd pay $100 plus for any of those systems.
I have tried a Jetboil Zip. It cost me £59 on sale. It is small and light as a stove / pot combo. Fuel fits inside as well as the stove. Really a decent option as an all-in-one.
Other than that I love the MSR Pockket Rocket Deluxe.
Overall, the most important thing is that the stove cannot fail. I have tried a couple of Chinese stoves that have failed me. They were fine at sea level, but at 1km they failed.
Hamans ultralight stove with piezo. $14 two years ago. Works fine. No issues with igniter either.
In Have brs. Fine stove.
I want the jetboil mini...im always in windy spots it seems. And to be able to boil more water from 1 canister is nice. For a 4 day trip the jet boil is worth the little weight and space
Another great video, long time viewer here
I totally get what you’re saying and me, myself is currently trying to lighten my load, I’ve got a jetboil and hard as I try I just can’t find any reason bad enough to replace it, I want too but as I already own one, I can’t logically justify replacing it. Yes the weight etc and bulk but! But! Depends what you’re doing, if you snow camp regularly or venture out in all weathers then I have reservations about the brs! I’d be happy to hear otherwise and that might help me make a decision!! But if you want one stove that covers summer and winter then it’s the jetboil for me, I regularly have to melt snow for water or brew up in high winds, yes there are things you can do to mitigate this but if you’re mid traverse with a 3 day walk out in either direction, I’d rather have some security in my system.
Saying that, for summer or overnight trips in good conditions I’m totally considering a lighter less bulky cook system
I bought the BRS, it does feel like it uses a bunch of fuel - but coming from Coleman 2 burner camp stove that is either off or at max heat I'm used to this waste.