Why I use PEX B and not PEX A
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- čas přidán 25. 10. 2022
- Maybe I'm just a cheap skate, 😄
But I still love Pex B for bathroom remodeling!
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“Knock on wood”
Knocks on drywall
dumb old spooky spook superstition.....knock on wood so tree spirits wont get you....just foolish.
*knocks on drywall in shower* whole wall crumbles apart
🤣🤣🤣
Definitely knocked on framing bum
Looked like he hit the stud
Honestly, a lot of times they won't call you back, they just won't come back.
That's exactly why I make sure whatever warranty I give is in writing.
Water squirting
out of the wall,,, They call.!
the most logical explanation I have heard anyone say...
love this guy's videos
Robin Williams before he got into show business
Several reasons to choose expansion pex (Pex A) over Pex B. The fittings are larger inside diameter so there is no flow restriction. The value in ease of installation is something people who aren't using Pex A frequently underestimate. Lastly, the rings are always contracting to hold the pipe on the fitting, unlike crimp rings which squeeze on to a point and stop. As a side note, the brass fittings for pex b are low quality and pinhole easily from the chlorine in the water supply - always use the plastic fittings whenever available.
Good points 👍
Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing. Also, because you're dealing with rolls you have WAY fewer fittings in most applications.
Only downside to plastic is you can harbor bacteria, brass like copper helps prevent bacteria
Expansion pex isn't easy to install in extreme cold. We had to use a heat gun to heat up the pex to expand it and we had tons of issues with pex plastic Expansion rings busting due to stretching in the cold. Cold weather makes almost all plastic brittle. Metal fittings can withstand the heat, cold and the pressure. Plastic isn't good unless you use proper insulation and have a way to guarantee it won't Crack, freeze or leak. If your water isn't contaminated, you shouldn't have any bacteria on a metal nor plastic fitting. I used Expansion pex for a few years, commercially and they had major issues on parts quality. I switched to crimp connections instead of crimp rings and in 5 years I've yet to have any issues. They crimp perfect every time. Don't leak. Easy to replace. Easy to use. Single or double hand tools. Strong crimp rings. Stainless steel and they outlast the fitting.
@@jordanharvey2163 Freezing cold definitely adds some work in most aspects of our trade. Unfortunately due to the restriction in flow caused by pex b fittings, they are not permitted in my municipality despite freezing winters. If you're installing water piping with a risk of freezing it should be insulated regardless of what material you're installing anyhow. I'm sure that you're well aware that brass has a propensity to crack open when frozen also. I can also say that I have not had any issues installing expansion pex in sub zero temperatures. Then again the vast majority of the work my company does is with hard copper - sweat the old fashioned way.
DeWalt expander is a great tool and it's attainable at $299
People need to actually break down the cost of the tool. The Milwaukee set comes with 3 sizes for heads, 1/2, 3/4, and 1 inch. To buy a crimp tool for those 3 sizes is around 80-100 cdn each. So it's really not that much more expensive.
Hes fine with what hes using. Maybe somebody just starting out should get into pex A system. But then again it is more expensive and parts are not yet readily available at big box stores.
absolutely!
You can buy a Ryobi stainless steel cinch ring crimper, battery and charger for around 100 bucks, they also have a copper crimp ring crimper that's the same price.Also any stainless steel manual crimper will do everything from half to 1 for around 50 bucks, and most copper crimp tools I've bought over the years do half and 3/4 in in one tool for 50 bucks, but if not come in a set of replaceable heads that goes up to 1.IDK what brand you're buying but you're getting ripped if a set is costing you over 150
My one pex tool does all ring sizes with changing anything.
@@phillipkirby502 exactly, you can get all kinds of tools with or without multiple sizes for not much more than 100 bucks.
My expander gun paid for itself on the first job. It’s faster and easier to use. You also don’t have choke points at every connector because the ID of the connectors is the same ID as the pipe. That means better control and consistency in your water pressure.
Depends on which connectors you use but unless you’re piping over 250ft the restriction is negligible. Both are fine
I never called back the plumber that fixed my plumbing job like this and failed because it flooded my basement
What happened with your install? Was it a forgotten crimp? I’ve never had a problem with pex B in a lot of connections installed, unless I forgot to crimp a ring.
The plumber used Vice grips to make the crimp. Baaaad
@@barrystevens2780 Jesus Christ 😂😂 that’s a pretty good one
@@barrystevens2780 - lol... that would make for poor connections.
@GameliEL Auceps I’m living inside your basement
Honestly this is the thinking that holds back a lot of smaller outfits and one man shows. 2k is *not* a large expense for a business. I spent more than that on secure storage for tools. Reinvesting in tools and equipment cuts into your profits in the beginning, but it always pays off. I can repipe an average size home in 2 days, working solo. With a helper or two, I can do one every day of the week. Plus, investing in specialty tools lets you take on jobs that would otherwise be impossible or not cost effective.
@GameliEL Auceps I mean, the cost of the pipe is actually less than copper, and the fittings are only slightly more expensive. While it may be "plastic", the tooling and machinery to produce cross linked polyethylene pipe with a sufficiently low failure rate aren't exactly cheap.
@GameliEL Auceps It's also slightly more expensive than cheaper PEX options, but performance and resillience are miles ahead. Uponor has a piece of test pipe that has undergome regular freeze/thaw cycles for *decades*. You just don't get that with other piping.
Explain to me how spending $2000 will make bathroom renovations faster and more efficient for the plumber…
Agreed some people just don’t get it. Same for a pro press machine. Time is money. I don’t care how good of a solder guy you are I could have 8-10 pressfittings finished before your pipe is hot enough to melt the solder
@@calvinleslie91 Just saw this. Were you unaware that humans use tools to accomplish work more efficiently?
About 10 years ago I worked for an outfit that used pex b and brass fittings. A lot of brass fittings in a 60 unit building. Used to get pin holes in the fittings 5-6 a building 🤷🏻♂️
That is caused by the chlorine in the municipal water supply. I have found that to be very common to see on brass valves and fittings.
Water PH causes the brass fittings to fail as well.
Sounds like having smaller, localized points of UVC LEDs for sterilization, might be a better way to keep our waters fresh and clean, than by adding chlorine to pools of water on a daily basis. At any rate, better options always exist. 😊🌎❤️
There was a problem with the alloy used. Don't recall what brand was the problem. It shouldn't be an issue with brand name fittings anymore.
@@DeanTheDoctor 100% true. Cl wrecks a lot of stuff and the Cl gas they use at municipal water treatment plants is deadly.
I bought the tool 7 years ago to re-do my plumbing. Absolutely worth it. If you do it right it makes it much faster and easier.
Propex tools expensive? Have you seen the prices on Propress tools?
I just spent $1700 on the 2" pex gun, I also have about 4k in propress and megapress
And the price of the press fittings
I love this guys work ethics. He’s honest and if anything a Master Troll!!
I wonder how many people are afraid now because he knocked on Sheetrock. 😆
I recently got into using Pex A and I tell you what,initial cost is high but it’s a higher quality product. Same inner diameter as copper, can bend better than Pex B, and the Uponor manifold is an awesome system.
If B works for you, and you install it properly especially with correct tube sizing then you’ll continue to do great work.
I still use the simple ring crimp fittings. Never have had a leak in 20 years of using them. Have fixed multiple expander fittings that leaked during that time.
I have been plumbing for about 43 yes and never have I used a pro press or the pex a
Facts
Knocks on sheet rock, everything leaks now
Pex A is way better it doesn't restrict the water flow and the only complaint I get is people have too much pressure and there not use to it. I also converted my whole house from galvanized pipe and don't have to clean out the aerator every day anymore.
The only issue with pex b is flow restriction with pex a you dont have that problem. But ive heard all kinds or reasons not to use either a or b or pex at all. Im personally a fan of copper and solder or braze. But in a situation with really hard water i prefer pex and i use pex b.
I had a guy install Lord and he broke a clamp in the process. 3 years later, after draining down thru a hole in the slab, it built up enough pressure that out rotted and flooded four bedrooms and a hallway. Thanks for your great advice!
They make a manual expander for under 200 FYI
It’s a joke and a great way to get carpal tunnel syndrome.
@@nickkirschner3719 so will hand crimping rings but u just cant be a weak b1tch about it. Remember when men were men and werent afraid of hard work💪😆
Great video! Just reached the very end of my project using PEX B and copper rings for the first time and ugh… the last little bit I struggled to fit the tool in a tight space and get a good crimp. Had to cut out and redo some sections of the job. If I were to start over again I definitely would’ve gone with the cinch option.
I'm finishing my basement and have been using PEX B. I see lot of comments about flow restriction. Can someone tell me how in practical way that affects anything? Does my toilet fill up slower? Does my shower head not get enough water to it? Honestly, I don't know what people are talking about. These fixtures are flow restricted anyway. I just don't see where I would actually notice a difference.
Completely agree. Been using Pex B for 15 years or longer and never had anyone complain of low water pressure.
A good example of flow restriction is when you are running your washer and your shower loses pressure. You will notice it when you try and run a lot of fixtures at once. You should be fine as long as you don’t have a ridiculously massive massive house or you don’t have a bunch of pex 90’s right next to each other.
@@michaelkiley5658
No complaints??? I must have installed it wrong because the water pressure sucks after I used it. And yes, I follow my youtube education to a "T." I even took the time to meticulously run the pex "staight" to my manifold. I also don't know how pex could possibly be cheaper. I needed 65 fittings just for that one line. But gotta say, there's not a single bend in that pex anywhere .
Have to oversize the system to increase water flow pressure with pex B
@@mackslaughter5078Thanks for that explaination. My house is a mix of 100 year old Galvanized pipe and copper. I get kids yelling "Don't turn on the dishwasher/washing machine, I'm taking a shower!" so we plan out the machine usage anyway. I'm guessing the galvanized 3/4" pipe might be full of mineral deposits it might be like 1/4" by now!
Real plumber here.
So his reason is because its a “$2000 change”. I just spent $2400 on a pro press last week. Why? Because with the amount of work i do its going to essentially cut my work time in half. Doesnt matter that i spent a full week or two weeks check for some on it because its investing in my craft. I understand we all have bills to pay and families to feed but a real tradesmen should always be trying to improve their work. These jobs he does cost THOUSANDS
"never REALLY had an issue, knock on wood" [knocks on drywall]
You can buy a manual expander tool for about $100.
I started out using PEX-B because that's all I knew about, and I bought a high quality McDonald crimper for it. Problem is that it won't fit in tight places. I like PEX-A better because you can pull the tubing out, expand it, then slide it into tight spots before it shrinks.
I use Pex B and I have never had a problem with leaking or pin holes in the fittings but I am not a plumber by trade and I have done over 30 remodels with it so far. I used it in my own home remodel when it first came out and nothing has leaked so far and it has been many years since I did it.
He’s like an old person with their first smart phone. Change is scary. I like my old outdated stuff
That’s how I roll. I’m no pro by any means but I’ve done MANY crimps on my house fittings, friend’s and family’s houses and I’ve only had one issue. It was totally my fault because I didn’t get the whole crimp ring in the crimpers. I’d hate to say it was the best $80 I’ve spent but it’s up near the top.
“It’s fine becuase it’s not failed yet” and “I don’t do it because the tool is expensive” is the exact opposite of what a true craftsman should say about his work.
Our company built thousands of houses in the 90s with pex . Not a single call back since the 90s . “They haven’t failed yet” !!! How long should we wait to determine if crimps are good ?
@@dtm7909 I'm betting if you were using PEX in the '90s it was PEX A. We ran miles of it from '88-'93 and "B" was not even available here... No pipe no fittings... Nada. It was all PEX A . I didn't see a piece of PEX B until after '98 or so and it was strictly at HD...our legit supply houses still were not stocking it.
Whatever pal, you could use upvc and it could end up lasting 40 years without a leak, or you could use copper tube and sweat every fitting and it could last 80 years. Maybe one of your uponer fittings busts in 5 years maybe it last a century, who knows man. Grow up
And what about the supposed cancerous risks of using pex A.? Or the fact that, in some areas, the chemicals they put into the water leeches into the pipe causing it to deteriorate prematurely.? Or should we just run out and convert our equipment over because YOU shamed us into it.???
Im a homeowner that is redoing his plumbing at home. And i even splurged the 500 for the tool. Ffs
To me it’s old style fitting for pex is reduced in size (flow) compared to new. Well worth the initial cost
I agree. I prefer the mechanical fastening of a pex B ring. 1200 psi before the pipe burst....but ring doesn't move. Have never had an issue with pex B in 11 years.
We use the expansion pex/crimp style and the only issue i had was my fault. I accidentally re used a damaged fitting I cut off. It must have made it back into my parts bin. It was cut just enough to leak but not make noise. Found it after losing 10psi after a day under air test.
Bigger thing is that home owners can service their Pex B way easier. Add an outdoor spigot or laundry room sink for short change. If it’s Pex A, they’re calling you back and dropping $1000.
I have Type B, “Vanguard Vanex” PEX. (White in color)
Hoping it’s a good product, came with the house, installed in 2010.
Knock on the inside of drywall?
When you're a general contractor..
I'm a GC, and I have all the new tools. Buy once, cry once. I am able to perform more jobs in a faster timeframe, completing more jobs throughout the same timeframe as everyone else. The cordless tools pay for themselves.
I'm not even a licensed plumber, nor do I perform a ton of plumbing jobs, but I have the ProPex on my list of tools to buy in the near future.
Without the water hammer arrestor installed at every end of the run is it more prone to failure?. Im getting ready to install all pex and my washer hook up has it built in. Should i also install it at the dishwasher and sinks?
I use both.
I prefer Pex A expansion pipe especially in colder areas such as a basement or crawl.
Pro
Hand tool is about $20-70
Cordless power tool is about $500
Uses one type of ring
500 psi
Less likely to miss a connection cause it 1 and done system
Cons
Harder to find parts in some areas
Can be finicky on tight areas especially the larger the pipe, less forgiveness in bending. So you have to think it out on tight intricate spots so it's a smooth situation
Pex B crimp or clamp
I prefer crimp over clamping rings
Crimps can be clipped off easy, clamps... not so much. Crimps seems cheaper here.
Pro
Crimp hand tool is $50-80
Ryobi makes cordless for $140
Crimp rings are stainless
You can slip in pipe and crimp clamp at your own time leisure
Cons
Clamp copper corldless tool is over $700
Clamp hand tool kit is $80-120
Clamps rings are copper so hope the plumber isnt dirty and ties copper to it i hope no flux lands on the ring. Ive seen a job with flux spatted on it was eating the ring.
Chances are higher forgetting or miss crimp or clamp a ring and have a blow out.
Pros to having both. Coming into a home you may run into either or now days and its good to keep it clean and consistent out of professionalism. I have the milwaukee propex and ryobi crimper/hand crimp for back up.
I don't use it because I'm cheap is really what you meant to say. Tool paid for it self in one job. They're not even close to a grand.
The expand ability for PEX A in sub zero climates like Alaska is great. You can have a line freeze and you might only have to replace a brass fitting. The PEX A pipe itself won’t be damaged. Unless you melt it while trying to thaw it out.
Same for pex B
That install in the wall could pay for a better tool and material 😂
I’m with you brother pex with the rings seems a better way
For me I look at it this way I’d rather put tools in my toolbox than to take tools out - meaning it would like all options available to me to make a repair!
I’ve never had an issue with pexB but then again we don’t do 90° turns or use a crap ton of fittings we just bend the pex around corners, and use manifolds when we get close to the bathroom or kitchen. 25 years ago I lived in the first building in my city that had PEX for potable water and they used pexA and back then that tool was like $2000.
I bought my Milwaukee expander tool for $400 after got a $4000 quote to do my house. Paid $1000 in parts and paid a buddy $500 to help me. The tool is phenomenal. Batteries held up really well and I can’t imagine using those large crimping tools in tight places.
They make much smaller crimpers for pex and to be honest, every plumber I know uses them and only them, I haven’t seen a bolt cutter style crimper being used in many years. Also, they get into the tightest spots imaginable. Places that an expanding tool can only dream about lol. There is absolutely nothing wrong with pex crimped fittings. The expander tool doesn’t really solve any underlying issues with waterlines other that more volume due to larger inside diameter fittings.. Which is easily avoidable by selecting the proper sized tubing.
Those stainless steel pinch (ear) clamps will hold 300 PSI with ease. Those are the defacto clamps we use on CO2 bulk distribution systems. They will never see pressure that high from ordinary house plumbing.
I have had the same experience and comments. I did switch to type A. Flow does increase evenly in the home that is the only benefit i see.
That’s quite a benefit. No?
@@scottm.9382 it is, and needs to be accomplished in the entire house. So one set of fittings in a bathroom remodel wont make that much of an impact.
The plumbers I've talked to use the clamps including the ones that have tried the expander.
Why did u I stall a air hammer arrestor on the top of the pex if it runs past the valve it's the same thing I've I stalled valves for yrs just runnin pex or copper10.inches past valve
I agree with everything you said.
I've never had an issue out of it and I use the same system as you.
I like his uniform.
What is the thing you are installing?
So... the argument is... its better... but im not gonna use it because the tool is expensive? Hmm. OK then.
Pex A and pex B fail all the time we do more repairs on pex then Cooper. I love it when new construction use pex on apartments. We get call all the time. Keep using pex and we will keep getting the easy money
Crimp is fine, but pex a allows for less flow restriction. Not something a client is normally going to call you back about, because they aren’t going to notice the gpm loss if they didn’t know they had it to lose.
I just did a building in uponor and the smaller stuff is relatively easy to work with. But when you start getting into larger water mains like 3” it becomes very expensive like 170 dollars a fitting and the the large uponor expansion tool in like 5000 dollars.
That's when you switch to cpv/corzan
What’s a good crimp tool brand?
I agree. The tool price for PEX A is ridiculous. I have not had any problems with PEX B. It’s easy to use as well. Good video Steve!
Stop being cheap and also stop using that home depot pipe it’s trash
Ok I dunno how this hasn't been mentioned yet...but in the beginning of this short, I would have thought Robin Williams was back from the dead.
It makes me nervous that it will stay secure. With the rings there is a physical barrier holding the PEX in place and I trust that more.
It'll still work very well but it hurts the pocket
The PEX A collar is a physical barrier
Pex A will forever continue trying to shrink back to its original position “supposedly” as long as the material is good. Pex A is actually also supposedly less likely to fail. But I’ve never seen any failure of Pex B when install was correct unless it was neglect or like I said installed incorrectly by some joe shmo
Best pex system is still the rahau everlock, expensive, but as solid as you can get. However I prefer crimped fittings, inexpensive, quick and since it is illegal to install non flow restricted fixtures by a licensed plumber in my area, the small restriction created by the fitting is minuscule.
Man, I agree with you.
They sell a manual expander that expands than you flip the tool over and press the brass ring feral on or is that type c?
Same here. Same here
Can't blame him. Can't understand how or why that tool is that expensive.
Love Milwaukee tools, but some of their stuff is insanely priced.
any opinion on the crimp sleves vs crimp rings?
reminds me of the phrase don't fix it if it ain't broken just don't change if its not needed
Everyone saying he knocked on drywall but it was pretty clear he knocked on the stud next to the one in the shot.
It's way faster as well and I never had a fitting fail from a mis crimp or not getting it all the way on
I only use pex b as well
Just the fact that it's full port on every fitting should be enough for any professional to use expansion fittings whenever possible
I prefer the stainless steel crimp rings over the copper rings, theu are just better.
If the tool allows you to do one more job or get to one more job per week then it’s worth it.
If i have to turn down 2 jobs because i dont have the tool, the 3rd job should pay for the tool and the 4th should make money from it.
Yeah i gotta agree with you on this one PEX a seems cool but a little over rated people get their panties in a bunch about the "restrictions" but I've never seen any noticable issues nor do I know any plumbers that have seen any issues. If anyone at all on the whole internet has please show me a video or a comment
I'll sell you my Manual expansion tool on the cheap brother. I'm a crimpex guy myself but you do get better flow with wirsbo
Which band sleeve do you recommend?
I used the very first version of pex with hand expander you had at most 2 to 3 seconds to get it on the fitting before your screwed that was some 18 years ago yes each one has there place and time to use if you're going to bash my comment tell what happens if you over expand pex a
Why would it cost $2k to switch? the Milwaukee expander tool is like $350. Propex is way faster and better system
I was a pex b user, hated on pex a.when I tried pex a , man, it was fun, even tho its problematic more then pex b, pex a is for pros, and experts now I just do pex A
i tink same way i love en prefiero pex clamps
I'm not changing either.. wedding bands for life bro
My young auto techs ask me the same things about new tools or procedures. I tell them as long as this specific tool still functions, I'm not upgrading or changing, it makes me money now, buy a new tool won't pay until a year or two from now. (You don't use it every day or even every month) so no I'm not switching when it breaks maybe.
There’s also a hand expander that is much cheaper than the battery operated one
Most of your tools should be a tax write off...
All work tools for the business are a tax write off.
It is still an expense.
I would agree with you. The only reason I haven't switched over to expansion tools is because of the insane price. They're acting like hand tools are a new commodity never before seen.
Agreed, who the hell wants to use a Manuel expander? Not me 😆
In crawl spaces I'm still working copper, PEX just is not rodent proof.
Same
DeWalt has a pex expander. Much cheaper. I'd argue unless you only do rough ins, you're not prepared to do work. I have PEXA in my house from the builder. Show up to make a repair with PEXB and you're getting kicked out without any pay.
Stainless steel crimp rings on pex B. Only need 1 tool for all the sizes. Never had an issue with them over 10k connections. Just make sure you don't buy rings off Amazon.
Best benefit no need for multiple crimper, the ratcheting with the torque light is the best I've found. 60 bucks or so. Not bad.good for tight spots too
Bullshit
I hear about more failure from expansion pipe and fittings.
Anybody use uponor tubing with pex b fittings and rings/crimps?
The tool is like $149.00 if you buy the manual one.
The initial coast is high, but i bet you would be faster, and if you're faster, the same estimate for a job but more jobs. It would pay for itself in less than a month easily. So probably should switch if you like making money 💰 some people are not motivated tho. To each there own.
"Knock on wood"
**Fails to knock on wood
Future pex: 🌊
My main complaint about the crimp pex is the loss in flow.
Po-tay-to Po-tah-to… up until you have a heinously tight spot where you don’t have clearance to open the compression tool handles and a third appendage to fumble with rings. A battery operated Pex A expander tool can get into some pretty tight spots. On the flip side if you have a tight spot requiring fittings butted up tight, PexA cannot do that because of the length of the expander cone… for that pexB works better.
Pex had recalls decades ago. They fixed it. That's the end of it. Pex is a fine system.
And that was just the first thing that showed up, looking through there has been may lawsuits and payouts from different companies over pex. And all within the past 5 years. Note the Uponor is a current open lawsuit.