You Might Not Need a Gyro (But It Really Helps)
VloĆŸit
- Äas pĆidĂĄn 29. 06. 2024
- Today we're going over RC plane gyros and how they're useful. We're also speaking out against the people who drag this hobby down by equating flying with a gyro to being less skilled as a pilot. If you want the hobby to grow instead of die off, you need to be welcoming to newcomers and help spread awareness of how positive the joy of flight is. Be your best self and help others reach their own dreams.
We take donations if you'd like to help contribute to the channel, or if you really have a model in mind that you'd like to see me fly, set up, and put through its paces: www.paypal.com/paypalme/JonSynRC
Be sure to check out Hangar 18 Hobbies on social media - and please consider ordering from them now that their website is live! They're a growing local hobby shop and I'm proud to be their demo pilot.
www.hangar18hobbies.com
/ hangar18hobbies
/ hangar18hobbies
/ hangar18hobbies
đ„ ------ 5280 RC ------- đ„
Be sure to pick up a BlueFire or TrueFire đ„ afterburner for this jet. Larry's afterburners look amazing - brighter than what you can get elsewhere, and cheaper too:
fiftytwoeightyrc.com/products...
đââïž ------- Social ------- đââïž
Consider following us on social:
â Tiktok: / 2brosrc
đ· Instagram: / twobrosrc
đ·đââïž: âȘ@EscapeLifesGravity⏠& CiarĂĄn
đŠ-------- Products We Recommend -------- đŠ
Receivers:
Spektrum AR10360T Receiver: bit.ly/3SuAlPv
Spektrum AR8360T Receiver: bit.ly/3QBdgtc
Spektrum AR637T Receiver: bit.ly/3dCjiuO
Transmitters:
IX20SE: bit.ly/3BI3eBD
IX20: bit.ly/3BQvB0u
NX10: bit.ly/3Qm6BSR
NX8: bit.ly/3bA4dcA
NX6:
Servos:
AGFRC B13DLM: tinyurl.com/B13DLM
AGFRC B11DLS: tinyurl.com/B11DLS
Hitec HS-85MGs:
Batteries:
4s 30c 2200 Smart packs: bit.ly/3SsoUrB
4s 50c 2200 Smart packs: bit.ly/3dcdBU3
6s 50c 5000 Smart packs: bit.ly/3A0jVY2
6s 50c 4000 Smart packs: bit.ly/3JANxOL
#radiocontrol #flight #rcplane
freewing, motion rc, freewing hornet, freewing f/a-18c, freewing f-18, freewing f18, f18 hornet, f-18 hornet, f/a-18 hornet, blue angel, blue angels, blue angels hornet, landing, flying, radio control, rc, jet, edf jet, 90mm edf jet, fms motor, fms 1950kv, spektrum, spektrum ix20, horizon hobby, horizon hobby products
0:00 Introduction
0:30 Gyro Basics
1:30 People Who Talk Down To Gyro Users
3:09 Trolling and You
4:25 The Benefits of a Gyro on the FW F/A-18
5:35 Pushing the Limits While Keeping It Stable
6:09 Gyro Priority on AS3X
6:54 Key Takeaways
8:04 Be Welcoming, Not Hostile - ZĂĄbava
No gyros are for weak flyers! Build your skill set! Donât use a crutchâ man up
And you're exactly the kind of person we're talking about that brings this hobby down and leads to people saying "The hobby is dying". Gyros do not make someone a weak pilot. They aren't a crutch. And they definitely do not replace your skills. We've pinned your comment not because we agree with you - it's so you can serve as an example of the kind of snobbish behavior that turns people away from radio controlled flight.
Gyros? Itâs ailerons that are the crutch. Rudder, man. Rudder.
Oof. That's like saying you don't need insurance cuz you don't think you'll be in an accident.
@@robieosborne7369
Your comment or mine?
WOW, I'd rather learn with a gyro stabilizer then a trainer. I'm someone that can speak from the experience, I started about 15 years ago amd no matter how much I tried to keep a plane in the air without a gyro I couldn't in the beginning of course. Took a break cause I was breaking the bank on planes, then got back into once gyros hit the market took me 6 months to learn to fly without gyro on my own and no trainer, now I have a fleet and I don't think they are a crutch, they are a tool to make the flying experience better. Catch up to the age of technology old timer or you do you and let others do what they do!
Jon as you know I'm not typically a user of gyros, I learned to fly, correct for wind, and set up a good airframe without them. That said, many models like some F-18's and F-16's for example are a bit unstable (like their full scale brothers), and no amount of skilled "set up" can make them fly as good as they are capable of flying. Gyros make the experience of flying those much more enjoyable. Then again some planes in my opinion fly fantastic without them. I help a lot of people, teach a lot of people...some in the gyro camp and some not, so there is a need for me to be able to extract the most out of a plane without one if necessary depending on the individual. Setting up and flying planes without them a lot keeps my skills sharp in that department.
As it relates to a newer pilot learning - there are some things in my opinion that you can't learn with a gyro. Setting up an airframe really well (just airframe set up) is difficult with a gyro as it masks some issues that the pilot would otherwise feel, and some of those issues can be addressed with balance, throw, expo, thrust angle, etc. The absolute best flying planes with gyros I've ever flown were first set up to get the most the airframe had to give, and then the gyro was brought in at extremely low gains and adjusted from there. Kind of like putting the cherry on top of the ice cream. Basically as it was explained to me...a gyro can shine up a turd, or refine an already well set up airplane. In other words you can just put one in a plane that doesn't fly very well with no set up, and it will fly better, maybe even very good, but if you put one in a very well set up plane that already flies very good...the result can be spectacular. Learning what you're feeling, what to feel for, and how to correct that with airframe set up has to be learned with the gyro off. The other thing is wind flying skills. While a full scale F-16 pilot has a flight computer, a J-3 Cub or Edge 540 pilot doesn't. Learning to correct for wind...and making all the corrections yourself, has to be learned with the gyro off. It is much harder, but it can be done, and at times I find that skill set useful.
Now...those things are not a necessity...no one has to learn that if they don't want to, I simply want to. If a person wants to start with AS3X/SAFE and then continue to put that in everything they fly...there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Whatever makes the individual happy is fine. That is why I'll teach either way. You want to use them, I'm in...I'll help you. You don't want to use them, I'm in...I'll help you. My only condition for everyone across the board is you have to be safe, and not risk the hobby for the rest of us by doing stupid stuff that puts others or their property in danger.
I try to make my points both for and against inclusive and as intelligently as possible. Gyros...like anything else, have good points and bad points depending on the mission of the individual. I could easily stand in either camp and make my points in a kind, informative way. I agree. Anyone who belittles another modeler because they use a gyro is just an asshole. I don't give a damn what you fly or how its equipped. If you're safe, and having fun...I'll fly with you.
And this is one of many reasons why we love you and the work you're doing, Adam. You're a good guy who recognizes that there's more than one way to approach flight.
Cameraman here. So here's the thing. These models are based on the real-life airframe counterparts, so they share a lot of the same characteristics as the real ones. In reality, a full-scale F/A-18, F-16, F-22 whatever you want to use as an example, simply couldn't fly stable at all without the digital flight control computer that drives the control surfaces. It's not like pre-1970s fighters where control surfaces were manually linked to the flight controls, it's all digital fly-by-wire. You're just telling the jet what to do and the computer extrapolates that and then moves the surfaces however it needs to to give you the desired output to your command. They fly solely on computers and gyros, so why wouldn't the scaled-down RC versions benefit from that? Saying they make you less of a pilot is completely false, the real jets would be completely unflyable without them.
Yes! Iâd love to see someone fly an X-29 (most unstable aircraft) that has all moving canards without a gyro. It wouldnât last long!
Yep bingo! Some folks simply don't think deeply enough. Usually stubborn old farts when it comes to anti gyro comments. But hey, who wants to use a smart phone when instead you could use a 1990's Nokia flip phone right? I bet you not a single person who complains about gyros drives VW Bug still or uses a Macintosh computer still or watches TV on a black and white TV using bunny ears for reception.
EVOLVE
@@dandanthedandan54321 LOL
Yes you are 100% correct. In 1972 an F8C fighter employed a computer to allow its pilot to fly an unstable aircraft. see NASA paper. www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/182985main_dfbw_rev1.pdf
An easy example is about what happens when the center of lift moves towards the trailing edge as speed increases. This creates the tendency for the plane to pitch down at high speeds thus requiring UP elevator trim....which creates major increases in drag above Mach 1. So by building the plane with up pitch and with a computer to give the pilot neutral feel , he can fly the plane at sub Mach speeds in a stable feeling plane. Once the aircraft passes through Mach 1 the plane can be flown with neutral elevator. a big savings on fuel. This is just an example. For RC aircraft it is irrelevant but it helps new pilots to keep their plane intact long enough to get rewarded and stay in the sport. For planes I built in the 1990s with my son when he was little, I upgraded them to new radios , lipos and brushless. The Safe AS3x is just cheap insurance against when some other pilot (or myself) does something stupid, lose sight when scrambling to avoid a mid air , and I am put in a very compromising situation and I can save the plane at the last second.
"If you want this hobby to grow then you have to welcome the new members, not make it hostile" - unfortunately that's how it is with a lot of the elderly men who dominate or flat out own the flight clubs. They don't like anything new, gyros being one of them. I've had every officer at my club tell me I'm not flying the plane, the gyro is. When in reality I'm just 10x better of a pilot than they are because of my hand to eye coordination they lack.
Additionally, does anyone really believe the real planes don't have flight computers/gyros? Are real f22 pilots not flying the plane?
All current gen fighters are like really expensive babysitting adventures. $500m per aircraft nets you a fun adventure for your cute cuddly pilot who throws a big temper tantrum if he has to fly the airplane at all. That's why we put a computer in it, so the pilot can eat donuts and sleep like Homer Simpson in the cockpit.
So freakin true. At my club they sit there and have all their planes set up but I never see them fly they just sit around and talk crap to the new people and wonder why memberships are down most of the new people are going to the club 4 miles away because they don't have the old guy sitting there talking shit all the time. I like it though because there's not that many people and I can fly whenever I want:)
@@RubyS.1 brooooo you're right they never fly!!!!!
On my first day at a club I was practicing 3d and some old dude in the back said "does that look like a real plane? Those g's would f*cking kill a pilot" and then "f*cking sloppy" He was like 10 feet behind me!
Saw the dude like 10 times after that and he only flew once. Took an hour to "set up" and had many bouncy landings.
Idk how the hobby attracted so many of these guys :/
I feel you. Have started the hobby 6 year ago because I really liked planes. Obviously I couldn't fly so I had to learn it. Went to a club and literally nobody wanted to teach me how to fly. Yes, you could try simulators but it's completely different if you fly your first time in real. Well, after I made that bad experiences I had no interest anymore in flying (I was 12 year old at that point). 3 years later I decided to try it again because I was suddenly really in the mood to try it again after flying on a A380 for the first time. Went to the same club again because it's the only one within 40km from my home. By that time the club had been taken over from other rc pilots who after the old owner wanted to get rid of it. Thankfully this time the people were a lot more friendly and really wanted to help me to get into the hobby. Started by flying a little sail plane with my teacher. We stood side by side with 2 controllers and he gave me control whenever the plane was calm. Today I'm flying a lot 3D and if the weather is good enough also sail planes.
To conclude it, there are sadly still a lot of people who have no interest in growing the hobby. In combination with the fact that it's quite expensive there's literally no attraction to try it. But luckly not all people are that way and you just need to find a friendly club.
Great video. Funny thing, âback in the dayâ a gyro was some exotic thing that only expert pilots used. Feel better.
It's amazing how it's now become a tool to bludgeon people over the head with, isn't it?
By making this video you've take on all the people over 70 who said they didn't have gyros in their time.
Congrats and thank you.
This is the nice version of the vid. The less filtered version is coming up soon. Thanks!
@@TwoBrosRC I'm looking forward.
I'm 72 and have been flying R/C since 1963. All 16 of my EDF's and several of my propeller planes have Spektrum AS3X/SAFE receivers in them. I learned how to reprogram AR636's with SAFE mode almost 4 years ago and was using AS3X long before that. EDF's can be tough to see at times due to their smaller size and military paint schemes. I've never had a gyro crash one of my planes, but having SAFE/Panic mode has probably saved a few. I enjoy tinkering with gyros. Having been in the hobby for almost 60 years, having something new to play with keeps it interesting. I have to disagree on the 150% travel though. I never exceed 125% travel because I want to leave a little room for subtrim and trim. Plus, I don't want my servos to rotate more than 45 degrees either side of center. Traveling further makes them take longer to get to where they're going and the movement of the linkage gets more non-linear. (I do adjust my linkages so that my trims are as close to center as possible.) I rarely exceed 50% expo, but then I don't use 3D throws on my control surfaces. Rates and expo is a personal preference thing and depends on the type of flying you do. You'll mostly find me flying the old AMA pattern or some of the IMAC stuff. But yeah, I do get ragged about my gyros and how they fly my planes for me. It's ok, they don't know what they're missing.
It's honestly really refreshing to see an older pilot not talk down to other pilots about gyros. It happens so often that it's turned many people away from the hobby.
150% rates doesn't change trim in our experiences. The servos will use the PWM signal that's given to them. Adding trim in 150% just reduces the amount of travel that's possible on the opposite side of the trim - e.g. trimming up elevator will reduce how far down the elevators can travel by the amount of the trim added. This would be the same even if you kept it at 125%. So for example, trimming 10 points of elevator up would reduce total travel to 140 down.
We usually make a point to mechanically trim models that need more than a couple clicks of trim to avoid limiting the surface travels. Like you said, it's a personal preference. We still don't understand why people feel the need to lord their choices over others. If you don't like gyros, don't fly with one. They don't make you any less of a pilot.
@@TwoBrosRC With the travel set to 125%, 50 counts of subtrim uses 15% of the travel. If I add 28 counts of trim in the same direction, that uses another 10% of travel for a total of 25%. So with my travel set to no more than 125%, I most likely wonât have any servos stop moving before a stick hits the stop and my servos will move the full 45 degrees in each direction. I donât recall how a Futaba handles overrun due to subtrim and trim, but my RadioMaster TX16S apparently doesnât have any overrun area. If you use any subtrim or trim, your servos will quit moving before the stick hits the stop. And that bugs me.. ;-)
That's why we mechanically trim after electrical trim unless it's super minor!
@@TwoBrosRC On the other hand, I see people use long servo arms, the inner hole on control horns, turn the travel in their transmitter down to 75% because their control surfaces are binding, and they wonder why all of their planes fly like crap.. ;-)
Gyros for me has been more of a tool for my scratchbuilt aircrafts, I often turn the gyro down first and fly my models to see what they like to do. Some models I've found love high rates, others hate the existence of any stabilisation on, example being a parkjet of mine hates gyros on yaw axis because they fly so slow that that it ends up being a hindrance than useful. I also started flying with gyros more often as I wanted to do some lazy flights, but have the option to turn them off midflight when, say, I got intercepted by a friend and challenged me to a dogfight, then we do the stupid stuff with the gyros off.
My friends and I are also increasingly adding more tech to our platforms to give our models more purpose then just flying around. FPV, autonomous flights, more motors than the model should have, etc. Elder pilots from where I come from are surprisingly welcoming to newcomers, so it's not uncommon to see an all depron glider floating around with a big 90mm EDF somewhere higher, and a parasail minding itself in-between. End of the day, have fun in the hobby and do what you like responsibly đ
Your absolutely right!! And the analysis
Is nothing short of spot on!! I even learned a couple of things I wasn't aware of!! Thanks đ And đ
Totally agree with you, and thank you for bringing up this subject!đ
Thanks for the demonstration of the gyro effected stability, this is exactly what I wanted to see. It would make flying that plane much more fun!
I'm a newbie jet pilot and I put a stabilizer in my jets all of them I have 3 64mm edf it helps a lot and great video keep it up !!
Great video guys. Your channel has really been standing out. I bet you make 5k this year with the quality of videos you are making now. Keep up the great work and we love seeing that F-18 đ
Thanks guys! This is just part 1, haha
I have been flying for like 30 years on and off. It was harder to fly back in long wire days with a bit of wind. Now I love to put even say a Hobby eagle in my aircraft to help with flight conditions. One can always switch off the gyro when confident with a new plane. I use gyro a lot and know that loss of orientation or bad manoeuvre kills a plane. Would love to get a response from someone trying to fly a new generation type model edf without a gyro. A rant but dislike folk that preach with distain. We should help our kids to learn this great hobby let them crash as we all have but not be afraid to have another try.
Thank you for the video guys :) love your content!!!
Totally agree, I flew my F/18 without gyro recently in strong crosswind and feel so hard to keep it stable in the air.
I tried flying without a gyro for a while, but I switched back after I got a Freewing F-8. It did technically fly without a gyro, but I only started really having fun after I got an Aura gyro set up to help with keeping the plane steady. Now I can spend much less time fighting the plane and much more time doing the flying I want to do.
I believe a gyro makes a model plane behave like a larger version of itself. It stops the model being knocked about by every little gust that wouldnât feel as severe if the model was bigger and heavier. I learnt to fly with a typical foam high wing trainer, no gyro, only a few years back. Knowing how to fly using only the basic controls, is an asset.
Most of my planes donât have a gyro, but my 850mm Pitts does! If the Pitts didnât have gyro I would not be as confident flying it, and if it didnât have âSafeâ it would have crashed more.
Iâve heard of the âTraditional Flyers Rantâ⊠âNo gyros, no safe, no control mixing, no expo, real models are built from balsa with a proper engineâ.
If thatâs how they wish to fly, good for them. I donât understand their need to harass other RC pilots, who learn how to use the technology the hobby possesses. Unless these Traditionalists are watching and commenting using only an abacus, they know itâs modern electronics, not dark magic.
GREAT explanation it's a conversation we have at out club all the time. I never used a gyro in the past until recently and now would not fly without one.
What it really comes down to is "fly what you're comfortable flying". Some models we own are OK with minimal gyro inputs or no gyro at all. Some, like the Hornet, are so unstable that a gyro is necessary to get the jet to fly correctly and perform the kind of maneuvers we want to see.
Thank you for supporting new pilots..
Awesome video, super educational. Thanksđ€ đ
Jon. I'm not that guy. I put gyros in every chance I get. I've had that guy comment on my videos too. And he usually has no videos of himself flying a plane or showing any skills at all except his skill to run his mouth. Feel better friend đđđâïžđ
That's why we have to speak over people like that so everyone knows the RC flight hobby isn't just full of cranky people who hate newcomers. Thanks Roy!
hahaha nooo gyros for me,34 years flying,screw them
Excellent video! Thank you for taking on such a controversial subject. Old guy here, flown a lot with gyros and more without. This issue reminds me of when proportional radios came out in the mid 60âs, when âreedsâ radios were the norm (literally toggle switches on the Tx front to make control surfaces move). Imagine showing up at an AMA contest back then, with a new proportional radio, and being told you canât fly with that, unfair advantage, so go away and come back with your old reeds radio!
Spot on! To anyone that says âyouâre playing with your toy wrongâ. You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity.
Hey Jon well said brother. I am with you 1000 percent on all you said, well thought out info and properly presented. I am especially in agreement with people being argumentative with anything that has to do with this hobby, and for those who want to troll or talk out your fourth point of contact need to just do a self evaluation. The world is full enough with negativity and I'm sure I speak for all and date to bare the cross and say " WE DONT WANT THAT VIBE OR PERSON CONTAMINATING THIS AWESOME HOBBY WITH YOUR NEGATIVE NONSENSE!" Keep up the awesome content Jon you have my support as a viewer, my likes, my sub, and I slapped boogers out of the notification bell!đ
Happy to have you onboard with our crazy little quest to help this hobby reach new limits!
You guys are awesome thank you for all that you do
Our pleasure!
Great video!
I use gyro all the time and I hear the same words about the gyro all the time as the persons saying them don't understand what it is and how they work.
If gyros performed our flight routines for us, why would we even have a transmitter?
As a newbie, my opinion on gyros is that they are a great tool to expand my skillset in a safe way. I am not lucky enough to have AS3X yet, so to get out of my comfort zone i just have to deal with fully manual inputs. i can say that yes, going manual sometimes is a great tool for expanding your skillset in the most rewarding way, but using a gyro either in AS3X or SAFE is totally ok! keep the great work up!
Users who enjoy this cool hobby, are exclusive to new things. It was the first time I realized that this is not a problem unique to Korea where I live.The problem is that they don't welcome new users either. Please welcome new users and hope that the related industry will develop as well.
Spectrum safe got me back into flying without destroying & spending tons of extra $$! Personally, after my 'skills' returned after a 2 decade break, I no longer use any type of gyro. (Like Jon, I play video games on a regular daily basis, to keep my hand/eye coordination as best as possible.) & I'm 57!đ€·ââïžđ
Thanks for your post about gyros. I have recently gotten back into trying to fly r c helicopters and airplanes. I am of the old school when there was no stabilization out there. I now use it. My big downfall with it is between my ears. For some reason. I fight the technology in my mind. I'm trying to get myself wrapped around it, but it's hard. As the song goes "I'm an analog man in a digital world."I do believe the stabilization is a good idea.
Jon youâre right my opinion at the end of the day if I get to take my $500 model back home in one piece itâs been a good day. I donât care what helped me lol
I used to be that person because I didn't have the full understanding of the technology. Now I have a Jeti 12 and a couple of Assist RX I am going to start to dive into this new to me aspect of modeling. I have been modeling for 42 years it just took me a while to get used to the more complex setup with there newer radios
I am a new pilot I have F5 Tiger ii and I am excited to enter this hobby of flying.. I also have Baja gasoline and electric cars..(ŰŽÙ۱ۧ ÙÙ) (Thank you )
Both my planes dont have gyros. But one of them ive been having some trouble so a gyro for that one is coming this week.
Hey Jon, love your videos! What camera did you upgrade to recently?
Sony AX53
I like your description about recovery from Corona virus.
While I do agree with you Iâd just like to add that there are instances where flying with the gyro off is fun or adds to your knowledge base.
For instance, practicing cross wind landings recently with the gyro on its almost impossible to get the aircraft to crab during the side slip, the gyro prevents the weather vane effect and I need almost no contrary rudder to regain my centerline before touch down. Flying the same approach with the gyro off, the plane naturally crabs and I have to modulate aileron and throttle during the decent then straighten out with rudder just before my wing low main gear touches.
Having the gyro off added an extra challenge and helped me with a skillset I would absolutely use as a full scale pilot.
Just wanted to point out that there can be a fun factor either way, gyro off or on, but that largely depends on the pilot and the aircraft being flown. Thanks for another awesome video
đ
Try reducing your rudder gains if you're unable to hold a crab on your current settings. We've personally never seen this behavior. All of our models with gyros will crab in a crosswind.
@@TwoBrosRC I need to learn how to flash my bind and fly receivers, the gains are high for my liking (almost to the point of small oscillations especially on rudder). Right now I only have two PNP aircraft where I have adjustable gains and an off position.
Great explanation and great footage. I learned the hard way to max out my travels for low speed agility. Is this something you do for all planes? Iâve got an 64mm A10 where the travels are about 3x what the manual states - I backed them off a tiny bit and used a bunch of expo hoping the travel is there when I need it but not overwhelming at all times.
Yep, it's what we do with all models. No reason not to, really. Once airspeed drops past a certain point, control surface throws at stock values produce little or no effect at all. Full possible throws allow a model to perform even with airspeeds as low as 5 to 10 MPH.
Hope you're feeling better today Mr Jon!!!
Getting there, slowly.
@@TwoBrosRC That is good to hear, you and your Brother will be in our prayers!
Itâs great that you are pushing and publishing gyro, advanced mixing, and flight control innovation integrated with flight test. It makes your channel different. RC is decades ahead of full scale in this respect, for obvious reasons, and we need to take advantage of our lower risk lab to help advance aviation. A lot of RC innovation is being sucked into full scale. Itâs an amazing time to be alive.
We'd be amazed if NASA ever reached out about our configurations, honestly.
@@TwoBrosRC
Yeah, as a government bureaucracy NASA isnât really allowed to innovate, ironically. Every major contract award includes a Past Performance evaluation to prove contractor technologies have already been successfully fielded and are not risky. Itâs the private sector thatâs sucking up RC tech and incorporating it commercially, often at the edge of performance. A lot of what we do is accelerated in near real time via global collaboration and that also lets it seep its way into all kinds of product designs.
I have an aero degree and lots of full scale time, and Iâve worked for every major US Tier 1 military prime. I didnât know much until I flew RC. Most chief engineers for $100B aircraft developments have never switched a prop or a fan, then compared. They donât know what adding a blade, or changing prop pitch does in terms of performance and efficiency trades. They havenât tested and refined fight control mixes to improve high alpha controllability. They havenât been forced to optimized weight versus performance trades hour by hour, flight by flight. And they sure as hell donât understand Lithium. They have no clue, tbh.
Gyros are useful, I like them on some aircraft but not others however it won't keep your plane from falling out the sky, so you still fly the model yourself!
âGyros are for weak flyersâ last time I check most irl plane have all sorts of gyros and stabilization systems on them
Thanks
never used one ,,, now some planes come with one , flex innovations rv-8, have it minimized , also have fms beaver with reflex ,,, like things simple ,,,,but like your vids including this one , thanks
Great video and fully agree. We've all heard guys like this: "No foamies, no electric, no gyro, no simulator". The old-school, self-righteous purists who signal to the world how awesome they are. I say "your loss, pal."
Hallo
I tottally agree with you. Minds are shifting i think but The most important thing is that you enjoy flying/building rcplanes. Gyro can help you with That. With me it helped me to start with the hobby and offcourse you must learn to fly. Now i am enjoying the hobby.
Greet Gerard
I put it on a large glider with only 1° dihedral and it makes it look like a scale glider full scale....very smoooth
I fly freestyle and race quads. I'd like to see some of these naysayer experts try and fly those without gyros. Maybe just have each of the four stick axis mapped to a motor and let them see why gyro are needed. As others have said, some airframes need a gyro. Surely multirotrs are the ultimate evolution of an unstable airframe. Watch a good FPV pilot filming extreme sports and tell me they don't have skills.
I ran into these types. All the time when I first started when the apprentice came with safe2013. Joined ama. Found a club paid my dues. I went to the club with my plane. One of the officers and some of the old guys told me take my plane home and get on a simulator and fly a umx piper j cub. I left and found a logistic that's a abandoned with a paved road to learn to fly I flew that thing until the Dallas doll came out with as3x and retracts. I flew that bird for two months. Until I got everything right and went back to the club. They were surprised to see me and dragging a p51 mustang. At the flite line for take off I can hear them heckling if I was gonna crash. One of the old guys came standing beside me as I did loops and rolls telling me I was going to hard. The landing was smooth as butter. Now I fly there all the time not a péep out of them.
And they undoubtedly say that the hobby is dying without realizing that they're the ones killing it.
I have to laugh at these people that say stuff like â youâre not really flying the modelâ if you use this or that. Or âback when I learned to flyâ. I have only been flying RC for a little over a year now, but being 67 years old I can remember that same crap being said about automatic transmissions in cars, and the people that bought them.
Listen Sonny, I still drive only manual vehicles! đđđ
But everything that I (and all my old mates) fly now has to have a gyro in it! đ±đ
really love the vid I myslef strat off in gyro mode with some of my planes then go to manual mode.my real problem is i cant fly los so i have cams on all my planes bc i come from 10 years of flying fpv
iNav 5.1 is a great option, I have it set up in 4 different fixed wings, not only does it give various types of stabilisation but also return to home and autolaunch
I saw a guy with a cub do that and maybe he was using inav. It was the craziest thing i had ever seen. Deffinetly wowed by his ability to program something like that.
@@jared6072 Ive been building and flying quadcopters for a few years so it wasn't too different from betaflight that we use on the quads. The autolaunch feature is so helpful, literally does all the hard work and then you can just set it to loiter once its at a certain height while you get ready to take control. If your interested in trying it there's some great tutorial videos by Painless360, Mr.D - Falling with style and PaweĆ Spychalski.
@@mbezik sweet! Thanks for the help
I have some with and some without as3x. Some of my planes are inherently stabile in the air and find the gyro doesnt really do much and some get the wichita waggle (cause its usually windy and turbulant here) that the gyro helps to keep from getting knocked back and forth. You pointed it out that the gyro doesnt prevent the plane from crashing and it also turns the gains down to all the way off when at full stick range. Maybe some guys are thinking when you say gyro, that all they think is safe mode. In that sense, yes, the gyro is doing more towards flying the plane and keeping you from crashing it. Ive heard of some that have been able to set up a gyro to have head hold in a position and could take over control for a prop hang and you just have to make sure the throttle is there. Either way, to each his own and i agree to let people have fun and stop the ego trips to tear down someone. Fly gas, fly electric, gyrp, no gyro, fly jets or only props, foamies or balsa, scratch build, large scale, micro, spektrum, fitaba, frsky, old 72 mhz, lipo battery, life, nicad. I mean ive been around in the hobby long enough to hear someone get critical of all those points and then some. My buddies and i joke that being a dick is their true hobby and happened to be able to fly rc planes.đ€Łđ€Ł
Funny enough, the fellow we singled out here on FB accused us of flying the Viper in SAFE mode until we rebutted and explained that the gyro is basically inactive because of the mixing we're using. That's why he responded with "Vipers can't do that without a gyro" - we ended up blocking him and usually just block anyone with similar responses. Life's too short to deal with people like that.
For real brother.
Ive even put gyros on nitro planes and an as3x worked with the vibrations and all lol
Hey Jon, whats your as3x gains for this bird? What did you start off with
Check the maiden video for the model, it's at the end.
I see nothing wrong with basic gyros personally.
I do think it's important to fly one or two planes without gyros just so you can experience the difference.
I do see an issue with advanced gyros such as safe that aren't really gyros. Those DO fly the plane for you.
I get the concept of using safe to learn how to fly. But my opinion is that safe is a last resort.
I think there are 2 much better ways of learning to fly.
1. Get someone to help you. This is hands down the best way to learn no question.
2. Is the best option if you have nobody to teach you. Use a flight simulator. It will teach you to fly without safe and you won't end up wrecking your new plane.
That is just my opinion of course.
I also think that larger planes such as balsa nitro, gas, and turbine engined planes fly better without gyros for the most part. And no competition events will allow you to use gyros. Such as 3d events or pattern events.
Just my thoughts :). Great video Jon. Most of the guys who talk shit on gyros can't fly worth a damn anyways đ they need them more than anyone.
nice jet just that those jet cost alot of money right now i hope the price going down so i can order 1
f18 look so beast
Pattern fliers are the worst. They always point out how good they are and have no time for anyone who isnât flying pattern, Or a $6000 f3a plane. And donât try to fly when they do! God no, everyone must sit still and be in awe of their greatness at making paint dry.
Video hit the nail on the head. All my planes have AS3X & Safe ainât got time for those bad mind gate keepers, EarPods Iâm so let them talk, heavy wind and bad weather am the only one flying while they under the club shed mumbling abt wind đš đđđđ.
I used to think gyros were a handicap a crouch, but not any more, a friend and his son learned to fly with them, then they slowly transition to a no gyro all the time flying and is the best way to do it. The gyros are bringing a lot of new blood old and young to the hobby.
Everything new will always face people that would like to keep things the way they are.
Like when we move from 72MHZ to 2.4GHZ, people arguing about the range and nonsense.
In Ragnar words:"don't fear it embrace it ".
Wow. It is good topic! All my EDF jets have gyros, and I am always using hobby eagle a3s4, it is cheap, and #1 it has SBUS decoder, you can assign 1-14 channel output aileron elevator rudder, #2 airplane is more stable in the air #3 you can always turn it off. If that helping save my $800 edf model, why not to use that?
I have gyros in most of my planes just because of the reasons mentioned in this video. Some people at the club donât use gyros. The only reason they have is pride.
Sounds about right to us.
I had that happen to me I was on the Motion rc site I posted my birds and said I was a novice and the negativity began some were really nasty. But there was some nice guys but it's been almost a year since I last posted.
I agree, a good flying model is much more rewarding. Gyro or not.
You know, I actually did learn how to fly without a gyro (and that was in the modern era where gyros are more common than not.) On occasion, I still fly without them (as sport receivers are cheaper for my limited budget) But back to the point, I feel WAY more comfortable flying in winds when I have a gyro backing me up (although one time I was flying in SAFE in high winds and ended up in a tree due to the limited angles) I definitely like both types of flight, but stability is always better and makes for a more relaxing flying experience.
The Gyro/No Gyro debate is as old as the âbalsa is better than foamâ debate.
Balsa versus foam is an interesting discussion, but not one we're ready to hop into anytime soon.
@@TwoBrosRC For sure! Yeah, just know that balsa is easier to destroy than foam. I really appreciate all that you guys do on this channel!
Absolutely great video I totally agree with you . I've met some people saying I'm cheating using gyro. Load of crap they talk. I only have foam planes now .balsa planes break easy. I use to carry a dust pan and brush and a bag to put the rubbish in đ. . Keep using gyros they will save you a lot of money đ
In my personal opinion, yes, some plane really need it. It makes the plane more stable and the flight more realistic.
The speed a plane can be thrown off by a stray breeze makes a gyro worth it I find, I cant really afford a replacement
Lot of good info in this! Old heads can never just carry on with their day. Lol
On as3x.. question..I have as3x on f16 with flaperons setup on my dx6. But only one ail has as3x anyway around that?
You need to unlock the receiver and reprogram it so it knows the wing type is flaperon configured. It's set by default to a normal wing which means the gyro only sees one servo because it's expecting Y-connected ailerons.
@@TwoBrosRC thank you bro love you
The next plane i get im buying a gyro. Even though i was trying this hobby solo i had the self conscious of gyros being a crutch. After three totaled planes and over 500$ i wpuld say being able to casually enjoy flying with a lower risk of crashing sounds much better for a new flyer like me
Gyros aren't a crutch. They're a tool to help improve the way a model handles and stabilize its flight characteristics. Anyone who thinks they're a crutch likely has no idea what they're talking about.
i want to put a gyro in my plane. It has a spektrum AR620 receiver in it. Which gyro do i need for that, please?
The AR620 should come with an AS3X gyro.
Iâve had my Eflite F-18 Blue Angel for a year and itâs never left the basement. Subconsciously I must be thinking itâs too pretty to crash. I noticed Nate Saylor seems to land his F-18 in SAFE every time and he has the luxury of a actual full scale runway.
Iâm a member of a club an hour and a half away thatâs a 1/2 mile long and a 1/8 mile wide of flat grass. Iâll think Iâll maiden down there. (In safeâŠ. There goes my Polk County Manâs Card again)
Hope you and Tony feel better soon. Iâve had it twice, nothing more than an achie cold for a week. Some nurse told my being O positive was a plus. The rarer blood types Covid is more severe. Hoping you have the more boring RH like me.
Looking forward to this video.
Take care!
O positive is a plus in life, man. Congrats on winning the gene lottery. O negative is the best blood to have, O meaning âoriginalâ and negative meaning no Rhesus monkey factor. A and B have additional protein layers inhibiting oxygen and nutrient transfer. O is free to transfer at max rate. Us A and B minions can do anaerobic things as well, but itâs struggle overall.
Basically you have Queen Bee genes and Iâm a Drone Bee. Ha ha. Funny cuz itâs true.
@@FFE-js2zp Thanks for the info. I was surprised the nurse took the time to give me the rundown on what she had seen for those who had a rough time with Covid-19. Her other comment, and you might know the correlation, but from her experience African Americans and Asians back in late 2020 suffered the worst. I just sat there with my OCD trying to figure what those two groups had in common. She was African American and by August 2020 lost 3 grandparents, and 5 other relatives in the New York City area. And her she is working with those with Covid and very positive. Angel walking on earth was what I went with.
@@jeffhenderson934
Oh man, donât get me started. Blood types have always fascinated me. What Asia and Africa have in common is this, âAfrican populations have a 97-99% Rh+ factor. East Asian communities have 93-97% Rh+ blood.â
I think the reason blood types are avoided in academic discussion, teaching, and pop culture is because itâs a little painful to learn one may have an unchangeable lot in life. I donât care, I just wanna know the truth. Hereâs the bottom line IMO, itâs up to you to draw your own conclusions:
The closer you are to âOriginalâ blood, O-, which has no additional protein layers blocking cellular efficiency, the less your blood is âallowedâ by nature to be contaminated. O- must get blood from another O- donor or theyâll likely die. AB+, the most mixed up blood, letâs just be friendly and call it the Mutt, can take blood from anyone. Additional problems, if an RH- mother tries to carry an RH+ fathers baby, her body will reject the baby and miscarry. Thatâs why we get blood tests to marry. Modern medicine has work arounds, but history did not.
RH- is about 10 percent of the population, sort of centered on the Basque region to Norway region of Europe. Typically blonde/red hair and blue/green eyed. Most Queens are O-, thus, historically, she can only mate with another Rh-.
Africa and Asia are mostly (95% ish) brown-eyed, RH+.
This part is just me: if you were to have a marker for class, perhaps in our distant human past, what would be more unchangeable and obvious and unavoidable than eye color? Or, like Bees, maybe class systems are just natureâs way of structuring civilizations for max efficiency.
A fun experiment is to count the number/percent of blue/green eyed celebs. Sometimes you need a close up photo for dark green. The natural percentage should be around 10.
@@FFE-js2zp you need a CZcams channel on all of the above. Iâve never given blood type or eye color much thought. I do remember as a kid my father (ex-USAF fighter pilot and C-130 pilot) making the comment that he and I had green eyes, as did most of the best WWII American fighter pilots) Not sure where he got that info. And if I remember correctly only 2% of the population have green eyes. Genetics is a weird thing. Iâve got 4 older sisters, all brown eyes. Howâd I end up green?
I also never gave blood types much thought until I was in college and during a sorority blood drive contest with the American Red Cross I signed a form allowing the Red Cross to call me anytime they were in need of O+. I got a lot of calls and once again never gave it much thought, but as they were taking my blood it was going into 4 small bags vs the one bigger bag. (Fat, dumb and stupid is no way to go through lifeâŠ. LOL!)
@@jeffhenderson934
It is fascinating and maybe more fascinating is how little itâs openly discussed, being that blood is kind of important. There was a short time when I read a lot of articles about US presidents being overwhelmingly Rh-, but a little girl may have solved that mystery: czcams.com/video/HGrbJ4_jcc8/video.html
Itâs amazing to me that your nurse talked about it related to the rona. WRT to modern medical issues Iâve also read that Alzheimerâs is overwhelmingly skewed to the AB+ side of the blood spectrum, with something like a 90% chance for AB+ people.
From my anecdotal, jealousy-based research, green and grey eyes seem to be the most associated with our modern elite: Musk, Zuckerberg, Buffet, Bezos, Gates, Biden/Jill, Trump/Melania, the list goes on. Obama looks brown eyed, but is Rh-.
The physics of eye color is interesting, too, as there are no blue pigments in nature. So brown eyes result from a brown pigment on the iris. Blue and green eyes are an absence of any pigment. Blue and green eye color results from light spectrum scattering trickery, similar to why the sky appears blue, called Tyndall spectrum scattering.
I use gyros on some planes and not on others. 800mm warbirds i use a gyro. I have a 70mm Blue Angels Viper i don't use a gyro. 64mm Arrows Marlin was my first "big" jet, i was scared so i used a gyro, one day the gyro died on the groun, thank goodness not in the air, so i flew w/o it. It made a difference but i was fine and don't use the gyro for it anymore. Had a gyro in my 50mm Arrows Viper it did not fly the plane for me or keep it from falling out the sky cause i flew to slow, not i fly it w/o one, nomajor difference. I put one onmy BV-38 Horten Wing, flew it for years w/o one. Had a delta wing gyro form Hobbyking lying atoun. It flys smoother and doesn't flop as much doing Maneuvers. I put one in my Bixler 3 for A fpv platform its much smoother. Yhe 64mm Arrows F-86 came with Vector, i turn it off when i fly it, tried safe and gyro, but doesn't need it, but glad i had it to learn Jets. I use gyros on all my 1.2m Warbirds, But not on my jets.
Correct me if I'm Wrong but doesn't as3x cancel out at a certain point of stick movement?
It does! That's why the chapter called AS3X Priority (6:09) goes over this.
Jon, solid video, love the message.. I have planes with and without. All good. The whole issue is a joke. Who the hell should tell anyone they aren't having fun if they use or don't use a gyro.. We can take that stance right down the rabbit hole... example: Foam planes are for sissies, Nitro is for guys that like to tinker with their motor all day, Electric planes are for the lazy and park flyers are weak..... The guys that love to jump in and tell everyone they know best are sad, little men....
That's just how some people are. They need some way to have a caste system in their hobby.
I would use the gyro if I flew spektrum and the safe button too. Never know when a wasp is going to sting you and make you run around like an idiot and crash (may have happened too me in July :) but I'll never tell.
thanks for setting these nasty type of people straight about using gyros
Iâm just flew my rc plane for the first time (first time flying a plane im 13) and I didnât have a gyro because the cost was to much for me and I crashed 6 times but I fixed it with glue thatâs my rc story (so far)
I thought this was about sandwiches....lmao. Now I'm hungry. Good video none the less.
i dont like Gyros for beginners due to the gyro hideÂŽs the small signs the plane / wings give you. like stall tipping and other things. i think those signs is necessary to learn in the beginning to have a fun future in the hobby.
i often use simple gyroÂŽs on my own designed planes and wings first flight, and high speed balsa wing planes i build to fly fast as hell. often they are super hard to start / hand launch, and gyro can help in the start process.
That's not entirely accurate. Models almost instantly stall at this scale. It's not something you generally get much warning for.
its my money, and how i spend it is my business
gyros essentially help with hand tossing my V900 and my Viper 50mm. if needing a gyro for those 9 seconds of start up makes me weak so be it.
ive learned to not give a phuk what other people think. its a shame we take other opinions so personal...
and much like everyone else's opinion mine is trash, because I am sure its different than most others...
In some planes yes.
In all planes to an extent. It all depends on what you're trying to do .
I see nothing wrong about embracing the technology and use it. It happens in so many domains. Such as: cooking, cars, computers and even in software development.
Itâs great to control and use the basics but I think that using the technology for assistance in some cases can be absolutely legit and helpful.
Would someone break the Nurburgring record without the new up to date technologies in the new Porches? Probably not..
Gyros are a tool and that is basically it. Training wheels to "rescue" a plane and reduce the entry level costs by helping the new pilot from destroying his plane and loose hope and give up. Chalk up one lost opportunity for a new member of our family of flyers. If it keeps them going for their first season good. They will sooner or later, on their own, turn off the gyro and become a hard-ass pilot like the rest of us. New thought for experienced good pilots, not beginners is this. On windy days, very nasty days when all the "Good" veteran pilots are standing down I will use gyro for the first take off. I turn it off right after I get away from the ground turbulance. Once I am airborn I will immediately turn it off and go surfing in the turbulent air. This type of flying really increases skills because mother nature is trying to destroy your plane. Once you are up there you will have the sky to yourself because all the non gyro guys will be watching you. Heart pumping you can land pretty good because it will be a relief! and you are filled with adrenalin! So Gyros can help you push your envelope for the takeoffs and landings on days that are too windy to fly. It is fun!
Try flying neutral or tail heavy with no gyro and see how long your airframe stays in the air.
I havenât been flying too long. I recently set up my avanti with no gyro.
And then WITH a gyro.
I can assure that using a gyro doesnât
fly the plane for you. That dude Juss a hater. A window warrior.
Do your thang Jon. Iâve learned a S*** ton from your channel.
Canât we all Juss get along!?!? lol
We'd love to get along, but there's a contingent of people determined to be miserable as you can see in the pinned comment.
As a relative new comer, Iâve experienced the âyour not a pilotâ if you use AS3X or safe. My first response is yes, Iâm not a pilot. Iâm flying a toy not a real plane. Iâll safe the term pilot for those who fly actual planes. But I will gladly hang my head in shame and bring a flyable plane home versus bringing it home in pieces.
I would caution against gatekeeping being a pilot - the anti-gyro crowd does it to you, but that doesn't mean you're not a pilot. A pilot is anyone who can fly an aircraft regardless of whether the aircraft is full scale or model scale. Flying radio control is actually much harder than being a full scale pilot. Far fewer checklists and regulation, much higher risks of crashing.
@@TwoBrosRC yea I get it. I was just trying to differentiate between someone who spent tens of thousands of dollars and hours to fly a full scale aircraft and someone who runs to the hobby shop and spends a few hundred dollars and throws a plane up in the air. But I fully get the higher risk of crashing.
@@TwoBrosRC but I ask these guys if they drive cars with airbags, power steering, antilock brakes, etc. Based on their arguments your not a real driver if you use technology to make you safer and a better driver.
Personally I use them as a oh s**t button but still its peoples money if they like flying chill with a gyro let them be. At the end of the day only scold people if they put others at risk and not for their skill level or preference.
Yes Jon there will always be some people are negative about everything. Bet you he is negative person in his normal life too just ban him we don't need people like that in our hobby. Well handel.
been expert pilot 37 years can gyro if i want......wont matter.... I've only tried it on an elevator so far on a large glider.....
Cool story, thanks for sharing!
Same old pilots did same crap with helicopters. While they were still flying same old boring pattern flying I was competing at the highest level with 3d smack. Using German made helis with incredible gyros
Fun topic: anti Gryo guys are Like the SNL Grumpy Old Man. czcams.com/video/5x7S2H-g60c/video.html "We didn't have no tech no lo gy!" And thats the way it was and thats the way we LIKED it! Enjoy!
Summed it up perfectlyâŠâŠ.. just be a decent person.
Unfortunately this bleeds over to my segment of RC aviation where grumpy old men think I don't know how to fly simply because I'm female. They quickly change their tune when I explain I've been an RC Pilot since 1987 and own several giant scale airplanes with high powered DLE engines đ€Ł
Grumpy old men tend to ruin a lot of hobbies for a variety of people, but it's not just grumpy old guys - it's a lot of insecure men in general. Sorry to hear you've had that experience, but it's unfortunately very common.
Two Brothers Radio Control I don't let it get to me. I also don't go out of my way to impress the guys I can fly just as good as them. I bring my airplanes out, have a great time then head home, simple.
I wonder if the anti-gyro club also drives cars with manual transmissions and carburetors. Also no power steering, locks or windows. Because assistance of any sort is weak and all that đ€Ł. I recently added planes to my rc obsession and without gyro assistance, I'd probably just stick with my bashers. And as someone who was against gyros in my stunt trucks, I absolutely love it in my speed rig. Negative Nathans are destroying the hobby... not technological advancements.
My comment made it into the video LOL
Wrong video.
@@TwoBrosRC 2:04
I use gyros in all my planes and jets. Why not use something that helps?? I can just never seem to find the gain sweet spot. Lol
the real jet has a flight control system that automatically moves the control surfaces... how this is not a good idea on an RC model is beyond me.
We think some people confuse "gyro" with "flies the jet for you with auto-leveling". While both use gyros, a gains gyro is not an auto-leveling "fly it for you" gyro.
gyros ,no comment? save mony.......
This comment doesn't really make sense. Could you clarify?
That fan sounds unbalanced
It's not, but thanks!
The real planes use also a gyro!