Three Reformed Evangelical Ministries on Christian Political Involvement
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
- Three Reformed Evangelical ministries recently addressed political questions during election year 2024. Topics like Christian Nationalism, voting, the church's political involvement etc. were all addressed. Jon reviews Mark Dever, Jesse Johnson, and Ligon Duncan's opinions about church/state relationships and Christian political involvement.
Note: Jesse Johnson did give a presentation at Shepherd's Conference this year on Christian Nationalism but it has not been released yet. The presentation I critique is from Feb 3, 2024 but is the same talk that Johnson gave at Shepherd's Conference 2023.
#ChristianNationalism #ShepherdsConference #TheGospelCoalition #9Marks
00:00:00 Introduction
00:12:24 9 Marks: How Should Christians View the Government?
00:20:33 (Same Presentation at Shepherds 2023): "Coveting Cesar's Throne: The Case Against Christian Nationalism"
01:32:21 TGC: What Does It Mean to Be a Christian Nationalist? - Zábava
All nations are either more-or-less based on Christianity, or more-or-less based on some other religion, be it paganism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Marxism, secular humanism, or what not. Why would anyone calling himself a Christian not prefer the former?
Humanism is not a religion. It is being human without primal ideology about things, places and beings no one has seen.
@@Zxuma-- You have too narrow a definition of religion. Religion does not require a holy building, or named deities to whom one makes sacrifices and offers worship. Secular humanism worships Man, either each individual worshipping himself, or all worshipping collective Man in the form of the State. It has its own laws, expectations, codes of behavior, acceptable and unacceptable beliefs, etc, just like all other religions.
P@@gregb6469
The main form of Buddhism according to my understanding is atheistic but nobody disputes that it is a religion so I would consider Western humanism to be a religion also
So many pastors, who could and should be clarifying things for their people, seem to constantly be muddying the waters.
I attended the coram deo conference this week and the panel discussion on “pastors and politics” between Kevin deyoung and Jonathan leeman was just an hour of dodging the actual conversation. I did not know any other attendees whom were impressed with it
One of my pastor friends was at the conference. I need to ask him about that.
How many cult conventions do reformers calvinists have each month??
Rigid , reprehensible , and exposed this day like never before !
Thank God!
It was still a great conference! The panel said there were straight and jagged lines between political issues and the pulpit but did not elaborate except for abortion. Jonathan leeman essentially admitted that he cannot preach certain things on abortion or say certain things because he ministers in a blue district. In other words, sounded like compromising the word of God.
Any recordings of that panel?
The panel was on Wednesday and there were cameras set up so I hope there will be recordings soon. I’d want to listen again myself and see other people’s commentary including Doug Wilson’s
I would just like to point out that for anyone who thinks we weren't a Christian nation at the founding, there is a book written in 1832 by Noah Webster: History of the United States...which should make it very clear all who read it, that our nation was founded as a Christian nation. This book is available to read online. Our public school system was a Christian school system up until after WWII when the government decided to take Christianity out of the schools and slowly did so. And, our political system was Christian as well, along with all the systems in the country.
I agree as an educator retired that when they use the Freedom of Religion in the Constitution they say the founding fathers meant u could go to Muslim churches or not church or Buddist.. Or IDK... I know that the one true God in England's church.. Which was wrong in adding the Crown and still do but we left and churches were different in early days.. But I'm pretty sure they meant denominations.. Protestant or Baptist or Methodist.. Not Buddist and don't go that wasn't acceptable I don't think. It was the one true God. Plus if you look up Congress now and their religion. A true Christian or not. 82 % or over 80% still affiliate with a church denomination Prototest , Catholic, a few Jewish people , and 2% or 2 or 3 Muslims now. So ONE Nation Under God... The rules we have do not steal, murder, .. from 10 commandments..
Oh and the President still every year swears in on Lincoln's Bible and their own...Bought new or already had. The Holy Bible. The courts still swear people in on the Bible. One Nation Under the One true GOD. . But some in the Nationalist movement have stated things that are absolutely not true and blasphemy of our Savior. They need prayer and salvation. BOgert's entire if Jesus had a gun, he woudl have shot the ones arresting them. That is so wrong.. She doesn't know the GOOD NEWS... I don't want her teaching all our kids..
@@bethprather9241 Also, before the Revolution, in some colonies the men had to take oaths of allegiance to the King of England and also to renounce popery. There were only people from three religions here. Protestants being the vast majority, A few Roman Catholics and a very small number of persecuted Jews who were brought here from Latin America. We also have ship records of where the people came from before and after the Revolution. And we have records of their religions.
@@bethprather9241 Here's more history. Look up Richard Somers of New Jersey, Sep 1778-Sep 4, 1804, and the Barbary War.
Jesus said, "which one of you when his son asks for bread will give him a snake?" Mark Dever, Jesse Johnson, and Ligon Duncan all raise their hand. LOL
Jon- you are definitely a kindred spirit with me. I have thought the same thoughts since at least 2004
Thank you Jon for your analysis
Good commentary Jon, strong objections to the points they were making
Your reasoning is right on and can't fathom how those leaders think. In Australia everyone has to vote and get fined if you don't. Voting for good pollises protects citizens against i.e abortion, transgender , forced marriages to name a few. I'm 75 grandma with grandson gone ove to Texas to play basketball so worried for him with all illegal aliens poring over the border. America needs Trump to change laws.
I live in Texas, about 150 miles from the border. Problems with immigrants are minimal here. Your grandson will be fine.
Leaders don't care what you are going through 😢
100% !
They are now disconnected Ivory Tower Elites, I call "Ecclesiocrats" !
That's why they despise Donald Trump and his inherent identification WITH average working class, typically CHRISTIAN & Patriotic Americans .
Trumps energetic defense of "We the People", and our Founding Principles of Western Christian Civilization & American norms, EXPOSES their utter failure to do so.
This, they won't lift a finger to defend us from Religious & Cultural barbarians, and CRITICIZE us for noticing such.
Heck, Jon / Conversations That Matter - the bulk of his work is dissecting & uncovering the work of these "Ecclesiastical Termites".
Im thinking of those early woodcut cartoons Martin Luther drew of the pompous prelates of Rome, if we switch the labels the drawings STILL apply now 500 years later.
Oh, this should be good...
I’m with you on Duncan. He is a weasel at best.
Word sandwich. Thanks for exposing Jon.
Thanks!
So glad your intro music is back!!!!
Hehehe... me too!
Sample some: Bruce Cockburn, David Wilcox or Richard Shindell. Or the folk group Herrod and Funk.
Thanks Jon for watching the videos in full and giving us just the important video snippets. I started to watch TGC video, and it was long and full of a lot of fluff, as you said. You are right to be angry with Ligon Duncan for his foolish arguments against Christian Nationalism (CN).
Timestamps and my summary:
01:33:50 Ligon Duncan's from TGC argues against CN because he (falsely) claims that there are no politicians advocating for CN and CN won't have any influence on public policy. Duncan slanders Christian Nationalists as people who are only going to cause division in churches.
01:37:00 Politicians who identify with being a Christian Nationalist incl Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert & Dusty Deevers. There are many voters who don't embrace the label Christian Nationalist, but want to bring some semblance of Christianity into society. Christians should vote for politicians who support a Christian influence in society.
01:39:37 Andy Davis from TGC is uncomfortable with Christians having "the sword" of govt power/authority, incorrectly thinking that Christians shouldn't just use the sword of govt authority to legislate godly laws. Davis seems to think that Christians in public office should only to seek to persuade, exemplify godliness, pray for people and be willing to lay down their lives in order to change society.
TGC doesn't address the issue of who to vote for in this election year, when many Christians are under pressure from the authorities using LGBTIQ+ legislation to make it hard for them to live according to their convictions, and can even get sacked from their jobs for not affirming LGBTIQ+.
TGC doesn't have a well-thought-out theology on how Christians should use their authority when they are in positions of power and can wield the sword. TGC doesn't seem to want to use the OT Law to guide Christians who do have the sword, in how to use that power. Is this due to their Eschatology and Fundamentalism that sees the Christian's world/kingdom as separate from the physical world and doesn't influence the physical world's culture and values? We need to get back to our Protestant roots, which says there's an invisible church, and there's also a visible church.
01:46:44 Stephen Wolfe's CN book teaches that the government can create conditions to help advance the kingdom of God, but it cannot save people.
01:48:46 Duncan uses "the perfect to argue against the good". I.e. he says that because a Chinese person is unlikely to be able to see China become a Christian nation in its laws, then it's pointless encouraging the Chinese Christians to work towards that ideal. Duncan also uses "the perfect to argue against the good" when he says that CN won't work because you'd have to work with other political parties or people who don't share exactly the same theology as you. Christians can be fighting against a common political enemy, like pro-abortion legislation, using the help of (e.g. Roman Catholics). That doesn't mean you can't keep doctrinal lines separate, and work toward not needing the support of other parties you don't agree with on major issues.
It would seem that TGC are mostly crypto-Democrats. We know that for certain about Mark Dever and Tim Keller.
Thank you Jon for your analysis😊
One other comment concerning the Christian leaders speaking to correct us “plebs.”
Be wise as a Serpent, but harmless as a dove.
In the book, Lord of the Rings, the chief city of Gondor is preparing for a battle. One of the main characters, Gandalph the wizard is explaining why Gondor has declined and without a king at the moment. A steward is currently in charge. The steward has been deceived by the main villain. Therefore the steward’s deception is just a result of error committed by earlier kings of the past.
Instead of being on guard, they have been lulled into comfort and ease. Therefore a lack of vigilance threatens the entire West. So this quote from the book I believe sums up the move of Christian leaders speaking about these issues.
“Kings built tombs more splendid than the houses of the living and counted the names of their descent dearer than the names of their sons. Childless lords sat in aged halls musing on heraldry or in high cold towers asking questions of the stars. And so the kingdom of Gondor sank into ruin, the line of kings failed, the white tree withered and the rule of Gondor was given over to lesser men.” - J. Tolkien
So stay humble and vigilant. “Leaders”quit publicly debating seminary lounge philosophies. Quit lengthening your tassels. Quit patting yourself on your back for your wisdom. Quit making compromising with Sauron.
On MacArthur’s response to Faldwell- I was in fundamentalism for about 10 years. They only spoke of things in two categories: secular and sacred. There was constant confusion among laypeople as to what to do with “secular” things. Very muddled.
Older theologians, however, spoke of three categories: secular, sacred, and carnal. Much clearer and easier to wrap my head around.
“If only we had a book or something…” LOL. Exactly.
These are not shepherds. They are hirelings who want to look respectable to the wolves devouring the flock.
I’ve lost a lot of respect for Ligon Duncan. Loved his series on the theology of worship from RTS, but it goes to show you that being on point in one area doesn’t mean you aren’t compromised in others.
Am I the only one distracted by the fact that Jesse Johnson sounds like Tim Mackie from The Bible Project?!? 🤣
On a serious note, great feedback on all this, John. Love the podcast! Keep up the good work and congrats on being a new father (I know your son/daughter is born yet but you understand…). Recent new father here as well! Definitely life-changing-in a good way-and a true blessing from God 🙌🏻
I taught PUblic school 28 years and I live in the top of the Bible belt. If you think God was taken out of school for one moment.. Then You dont understand Gods ways and Christians do teach in public education. I shared donated Bible books and kids can pick. Kids can talk and telll about Jesus to others as long as it isnt a large sermkn taking up class time or something. PRAY my christian friends prayed over every kids desk and I prayed without ceasing, often. Bathroom.. talk in my head to Jesus. Noway I couldnt. I know it is different in other states . But laws were passed to protect my rights too. I have freedom of religion too. We all have one JOB. whatever way God leads you ... But 1 job? Do you know what it is.. The great Commission... Dont underestimate Gods power. All people need Jesus
"Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people he chose for his inheritance." - Ps 33:12
With Christian "leadership" like this, it is no wonder that our nation is in such turmoil. One would expect that if we, as Christians, cared at all about our fellow citizens, we would be politically active to help create a better world for us and our fellow man, seeking to be good stewards. As believers we should know that God laws benefit mankind and when followed create the best outcomes for us. Wouldn't we also want the best outcomes for our neighbors? Wouldn't be want Christian principles and laws to influence our national laws? These men are not shepherds at all. I suspect that is why more and more people are rejecting what is supposed to be our earthly religious "leadership. " Thanks be to God that we have a heavenly Shepherd and He provides us with people like Jon to discuss the false teachings that are occurring.
Jon going off on Duncan😂😂😂
Admonition to Dr. Duncan.
Hebrews 5:12
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
Does anyone remember a website that Jon has mentioned in the past that allows for someone to search for a church?
Doesn’t exist. Forming a new one. Will be done within a month I should think.
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast Kind of a shame that it no longer exists. I recall using it 6-8 months ago to search for a church. Other such websites exist, but I just can't bring myself to trust them.
@@bartandpocca1774 Yes, it is a shame.
HeartCry has a church search section. I would guess those are all Reformed churches so may not be what you are looking for
His poor wife. He is forced to participate in that marriage responsibility.....
On another podcast you talked about the Moscow mood, a term I've never heard before. I don't listen to Doug Wilson; something about his style puts me off.
However just listening to what Duncan and big Eva are saying about that group, makes me think I better start watching Wilson's channel 😊
There is a continuum from dispensational pretribulation premillennial rapturists (DPPRs) to amillennialists (Amils) to postmillennialists (Postmils) to christian nationalists (CNs). The two goal posts on the field are the DPPRs and the CNs. Attached to these eschatologies is also a view of what the church is in this world and how the church is to participate in this world. There are nuances along the field from one goal post to the other but the goal post positions are framed this way as best I understand.
DPPRs believe that the church only sojourns in this world. The church's destiny and home is heavenly. They believe that "not of this world" literally means not of this world so they do not attach politically to the system (the image of Daniel 2 and the beasts of Daniel 7). They have here no "lasting" city (Heb 13:14 NAS). They see it as very difficult to be a Psalm 1 person in this world system (in the sense of walking, standing, sitting) without separating from the system. They see the church's role in this world as ambassadorial. They do not expect anything like a christian nation until the King returns to take His rightful place as King (Rev 19: 11-21). Therefore, they tend to be far less politically active than their brothers at the other end of the field. Full disclosure -- I am one of these.
At the other end of the field are the CNs who take the great commission to mean something more that just preaching the gospel -- that it also involves exercising the "authority" of the King over the nations in His absence. The "nations" are to come under christian rule -- not just the converts to Christ. The gospel of the kingdom is to spread and the nations are to be christianized in preparation for the return of the King. Therefore, they tend to be much more politically active than their brothers at the other end of the field.
There is much more (including talking about the various positions between the goal lines) but I am just trying to set the end zones. Helpful?
You are one of which?
Why can't some Christians see the reality of the underlying push of forces to create a facistic one world government.
I think it was helpful. And it’s nice to see a premill not completely strawman the postmill and CN views.
While I wouldn’t plant a flag on eschatology, I do lean postmill now. I was raised dispy premill and didn’t even know there were other eschatological views.
Before the CN stuff started, I considered myself a CN but it was my normal, non theologian/philosopher version.
Nationalist - I want my nations leaders to lead in the best interest of my nation, punish evil and reward good.
Christian - Evil and Good are defined by God through scripture, and the govt is held accountable before God for what they do.
Simple enough and makes sense to me. But now, it’s been thrown in the “controversy” and everyone has a different definition. I think a large part of this confusion over the definition is the constant strawmanning and purposeful obtuseness of some of our “big Eva” leaders.
But I do think you did a fair job of summarizing each side. The only thing I would change is CN isn’t the extreme on that end. I’d say “Dominionists” (in the vein of Bethel, and “7 mountain” theology) are the “extreme” on that side, imo.
CN would maybe be the 15 yard line on that side lol.
I do think the postmill view does encourage building for the future, and considering that our great great grandkids might inherit what we’ve left and we need to live like that will happen.
Whereas when I was a premill, and many of the premills I know say things like “well Jesus is coming back soon…” when they get overwhelmed with the vast amount of evil and corruption we have in so many aspects of society now days. Almost a defeatist attitude like we shouldn’t worry about fighting back (other than voting every 4 years) because it’s all doomed and just waiting to end anyway.
I even remember in my early 20s telling my grandpa I didn’t know if I wanted to have kids bc everything is just going to get worse and worse and the antichrist was coming and the tribulation, etc.
I know that’s not all premills, but most Christian’s I know are premill, and most will sigh with the “well we just have to wait for Jesus to come back” in response to the evil culture and politics we have today. And I think that attitude is how we’ve lost (and are losing) what we once had in this country.
@@MansterBearthe development of your view of eschatology reflects mine as well to a T. Grew up in a DPPR mindset and had no idea what it was until later on in life, and also am struggling to plant a flag between Amil and Postmil.
I think it’s a relatively fair generalization, but it most certainly has its outliers. Jerry Falwell would be a prime example as he DPPR (Liberty grad here as well), and he would likely be considered CN today if he were still alive.
Jon,
We are really looking forward to your upcoming visit to Boise.
We will be at the conference and hopefully can meet you in person.
You’re going to love it here.
What condescension! It is clear that Jesse Johnson has never been to Hawaii, or if he has, he never ventured beyond the resorts and other tourist areas all haole'd up to keep the money flowing.
Jon, you brought the fire at the right time, because Ligon IS a compromising, lily livered coward…..
How do I find you on X
Great job!
For every convert these shepherds gain by their teaching on this subject, they lose two by the fruit of that teaching. In my opinion, leave them alone.
i dont think any of these guys understand what the reformation was and is about...
That comparison to a family with a new convert, lots of problems etc. yet somehow you have to work with it. That was excellent. I like your fresh views-coming at everything free from baggage. I'm more baby boomer so I'm seeing these guys as loaded with cultural feelings, opinions, fears, ideas they have absorbed from the culture. Now with new challenges & disruption of the culture they are simply expressing unanalyzed reactions and judgements from the culture. They are behind the curve and just want to play it safe. They are not leading. It's like the tide has gone out and now we can see on the beach all the odd things assumed, wrongly, from the culture
I had always thought we should care and get involved. I just didn't like the idea of it being talked about in the pulpit but at this point everybody needs to warn people about what's happening. God saying what is Good and what is evil and our government going out of it's way to make what is evil legal and what is good illegal is a problem. I've always believed we should have biblical laws, but all legislation is based on morality so to say we shouldn't want Christian nationalism is to really say we want to live in an evil place. There's a video the HRC did six years ago called HRC's Grassroots Organizing Training and it's clear they're trying to get people in there way of thinking involved. They are trying to get people to go into the school boards. He says something about the FBI. I mean and it's public they're not hiding there forcing they're way of life on us. There is no neutral
Calvin just allowed/ agreed with the magistrates' punishment of rank heresy. This is good.
Thankyou for addressing because the name is being defined by everyones opinion instead of recognition of the many different types of Christian nationalist some biblical some unbiblical, If we don't define which is which then we just spew out asininity.
I wonder if 50-70 years ago the voting was a controversial topic among evangelicals, believe it wasn’t. Most current controversy is rooted in the desire of some leaders to apease the world, to avoid being labeled as Christian Nationalist or be associated to Trump. The decision shouldn’t be that difficult, clearly one opinion is mean and ungodly but the other is for wickedness, immorality and perversity, which one do we want?
So-called Christian leaders, especially those in the title have lived charmed lives in charmed neighborhoods and have no idea what the rough life is about.
mark dever over there barely fitting into his shirt. good grief
Duncan has been a woke social justice warrior for a while. A coward and compromiser that should be marked and avoided. Dever also.
From what I have read Lloyd-Jones would not have likely been in line with Wolfe. I have read in more than one of his books where he pushes the idea that Christians shouldn’t get caught up in politics. Unfortunately it seems Lloyd-Jones had a very similar view as John MacArthur, especially when he was younger.
4:50 ff. The reason that politics is treated differently from other things by evangelical leaders in terms of seeking to tamp down enthusiasm is because evangelical leaders are too much affected by the evangelical intelligensia which has a huge presence of Democratic party-preferring people like Mark Dever, Tim Keller, Russell Moore, and David French. There is an active effort to suppress the evangelical vote in America by evangelical leaders until such a time as they can manage to alter the political party preferences of the majority of evangelical voters. The latter is something they are working hard at right now, particularly with the project undertaken by Moore and French to bring their baleful political thought into local church small groups.
You know Russell Moore and David French are not Democrats? Right?
@@beverlylewis3467 the Louisville newspaper 2016 ran an article by a man who used to be at Southern Seminary in Russell Moore's years there; I forgot the man's capacity. He said that Russell Moore was in the habit of boasting about being a Democrat there at the seminary.
@@beverlylewis3467 Russell Moore headed up the young Democrats at the University of Southern Mississippi and subsequently worked for a Democrat congressman.
@@beverlylewis3467 in one of his memoirs Russell Moore stated that his original plan was to become a Democrat Party politician and run for governor in Mississippi
@@beverlylewis3467 he said he hoped to marry a woman who would be like Hillary Clinton for him
People already don’t take these guys seriously. The one to really look out for is Canon Press.
I listened 3 x to the 1st pastor and agree he wasn't clear. I do think he stated something like of the social stuff infiltrates cities.. social? Not conservative it wouldn't work? Which show no hope either way. Ok still listening. HE was ok in telling two sides I guess but not clear, The word of God is true and he left out that all of us need to PRAY for discernment
You are correct in saying the church is the People of God.. Not a building
THE baptist church did ask Jefferson for a wall of seperation between church and state and I read it was because their was more Methodist, Presbyterians, idk.. Quakers.. Idk.
Where is Doug Wilson on these panels?
The truth is Biblically we see God use the evil countries and people to move His plan forward. We are living in Biblical times .
Sorry for all spelling errors.
Sense when do these mere men constitute emergency on my life or any brothers and sisters in Christ's mind. Read the Bible believe its God's word you can trust it, rely on it, etc. The Bible shows and tell you how to handle/deal with organizations/entities & those outside the church. Also read the Constitution of the United States of America, so get ready
Also men such as these and others with platforms need to be held accountable; I haven't heard any of these men/women like this with platforms encourage the members and attendees to hold leadership accountable whenever they were asked the question about looking for a healthy church. But non the less brothers and sisters that hold platforms are to be held accountable and called out on the rug, we're past youth group theology mentality. How much of their leadership shadows like Christ Jesus? I haven't hardly payed much attention to these men for around 15 years ago. Read the Bible believe, follow along while after you push the play ▶️ button. May we grow in the grace and knowledge of the LORD Jesus Christ.
It is preferable that this guy doesn’t vote because he is malinformed about his government. 1:22:52
Im trying to understand and pray. It is me Im sure but Im still somewhat confused at 48... well I dont agree what the preacher just stated. They were members of protestant churches , even in Jefferson was a deist and made his own Bible.. IDK.. He still has Bible vErses written in the Jefferson Library at the Library of
Congress.i saw on line.. Im really tired of digging up the dead . I agree with what you are saying now.. Jon. It was the one true GOD.
Those guys are dinosaurs. They just want a pension. Let the hirelings do hireling things
I grew up in an independent fundamentalist background, but I have been a five-point Calvinist now for about six years. It kind of makes a mixed bag of sorts. I do not think Calvinists/reformed have as much a heart for evangelism, although we are called to the Great Commission. I also believe the reformed side tends to be much more susceptible to CRT, social justice and the like, as well as being less interested in the political arena. Some really like to smear the independent fundamentalists for being more active in voting and thinking it to be an important duty as both a citizen and a Christian to vote biblically on issues and bringing it up in church.
Yes the vulnerability of Calvinists to the evangelical Left narratives has been the biggest problem of the American church in the 21st century.
Tim Keller has certainly been one of the most destructive figures in all of American church history. His influence has spread far beyond the Calvinists.
@ConversationsThatMatter you raise the "great tension" issue at 1:18:24 by first referring to the Great Commission of Matthew 28:19-20 as a Body of Christ-centric commandment ("we're supposed to favor, I guess, Christians more than our own nation") but then you go on to state that the very same commandment or principles might inform someone's beliefs about national border security, or immigration policy, or our response to unbelievers outside the country. We *should* favor Christians over our "national" brothers and sisters; Jesus even said that His coming would divide families and pit brother against brother, mother against daughter, etc. That is where the Christian Nationalist argument falls flat, is that it would strive to save a worldly system of government--no matter how noble the intentions or exacting the precautionary measures, a human institution will always be susceptible to the Rule of Man over the Rule of Law (and in any event we are not under law but under grace)--rather than rest in the finished work of Jesus Christ, regardless of the persecution around us.
That second clip was more of an argument from the absurd to the absurdest
Do I really want to watch this 🤔?
Nah listen on iTunes at 2 speed
@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast no disrespect to you sir.
I just don't expect much out of Duncan, etc
These guys are proud to say how much they lose and are persecuted and that’s how the church grows. But they’re afraid to enter the arena because they’ll lose. They do this because they’ve made a totem out of being liked by the world for evangelistic purposes. It’s a strange place for a bunch of supposedly reformed people. They sound Arminian.
Johnson is purposely conflating the two. He is playing on the ignorance of his audience.
I don’t think Jesse is Reformed…
I do enjoy your perspectives very much and benefit from what I learn. But if you call yourself conservative, why on earth do you use that rock music intro? Something from the heritage of great western music would be SO vastly superior, as well as actually meaningful.
That intro is more country than rock
Idk what this channel really believes in American Nationalism.
please share a reference to read please.
1:34:18
“LGBTQIA”
This term is a far cry from what the Bible calls it, but go off mate.
Listening to Jesse is reminiscent of a high schooler’s presentation; sophomoric at best. Even he didn’t believe what he was saying much of the time. It’s like he was assigned a topic to which he brought a passionate opinion but little else.
What is John MacArthur doing platforming somebody that mediocre and dubious?
A man of God as Paul says does not entangle himself with the affairs of this life. He is called to preach the word and shepherd the flock of God etc. Fulfillment of the great commission which is to make disciples. Like any Christian a Pastor can participate in politcs like any child of God. Our political participation must never take up equal time with our gospel priorities and calling. Seek first the Kingdom of God not the Kingdom of men. Make disciples of Christ before we even think about making good citizens in the nation we reside. If we follow the NT we cannot go wrong. Any political activism must always be subservient to our gospel activism. The ecclesia of God is not a political institution. It is this institution that is to be front and center of our redeemed lives. I vote and will encourage all around me to support the candidate that will do my neighbors the most good and policies that are consistent with the word of God and His law. We are living in evil times and our past Christian heritage and consensus is no longer. Nor will it ever be as it was. Definitely not in my lifetime. But so be it. In fact all true Christians are to expect the hatred and persecution of the ungodly. Look at where Canada is right now. There is no nation on earth that has a Christian consensus. Christians are surrounded by the wicked, the indifferent, the nominal Christian, heresy and false religions, atheism, agnosticism and political humanism. We are outnumbered by far. The sodomite movement is exploding all around the world. Trans wickedness is in every nation on earth. Europe is well on its way to racial and ethnic collapse under Islam. Therefore what ought to be our duty and obligation to our Lord be faithful to the truth and stand as a fearless and bold witness for Jesus even if it means our imprisonment and death. Look at what the persecuted church is undergoing right now? No political turn is comming their way either. It has never been more dangeous to profess Christ in many places in Africa and India as it is now. Other nations are seeing similar troubles. In our nation we are seeing reprobation not revival or anything by way of evangelical repentance that will turn our pagan hedonistic society around. Just turn on the TV? Evils once thought unthinkable are now commonplace. Homosexuals kissing eachother and many other disgraceful sexual perversion. Christians have never been more hated in America than they are right now. 40 years in Christ has shown me this. Woke now comming at us in spades? What else does God need to show us before we get the idea. However all is not lost there are still elect saints still to be saved because it is stil the day of salvation until Jesus returns. The light and witness of the gospel however large or small it may be at any given time in the history of the church. Our great hope is not in this life but in that world to come. Romans 8:28-32. 1John 3:1-3 2, 2 Peter 3:8-12. Revelation chapters 21 and 22. Political concerns play no primary or significant place in the lives of the faithful. The sins of our age are the occasions to preach Christ and him crucified. We work to build a spiritual kingdom not an earthly one. The NT is quite clear about this.
The ecclesia of God is not a political institution nor is it a sports institution. So does that mean that all Christians currently in sports leagues need to promptly resign?