As a convert from papism to Orthodoxy Ss. Photius and Gregory Palamas are very near to my heart! More people need to know about the 8th and 9th councils, they are chronically ignored and vast swathes of peoples are completely ignorant to this history. Thank you for shedding light on this Frs. ☦️🙏🏻 May God bless your ministries! I pray we get more translations into english of the dilligent work Fr. John Romanides did researching the history around the 8th council and the ceasaropapism being pushed by the Frankish kingdom onto Rome that eventually leads to the invention of a new religion in rome which sadly persists to our day. Fr. Paul's advice about reading the lives of ancient saints and modern was where my doubts with papism really began, dipping my toes into the Desert Fathers and seeing next to no continuity between them and modern roman catholicism, but when I read about St. Seraphim of Sarov the lightbulb went on.
This is almost the exact same story as my own. Even with the route of the desert fathers and ancient saints and comparing them to modern saints in RC and EO. EO modern saints have the same Spirit, mindset, etc... as the 1st millenium saints. Definitely not the case with RC modern "saints." Gregory Palamas and Photius are near and dear to me as well
It was a privilege to go to the Eighth Oecumenical council conference that Orthodox Ethos put on this year. Many received a copy of the acts there. Our group read much of it on the way back from the conference. I highly recommend it. Thank you Fr Peter and all the Orthodox Ethos staff for working hard to publish it. I look forward to your next conference.
The final, complete edition of the ACTS of the COUNCIL is forthcoming, including much more material: The commentary of Patriarch Dositheos of Jerusalem The introduction by the same The introduction by the editor of the modern Greek edition Copious footnotes God willing, soon... within 40 days or so... Prayers coveted.
Great interview Fathers. Reading about the life of st. Photius the First of Constantinople was instrumental in my conversion. We need to restore commemoration of the 8th Ecumenical Council in parishes.
To all those who persist in judging Fr Peter Heers on account of not being claimed by a canonical bishop, know that you could bring condemnation upon yourself. Only Christ knows the hearts and minds of all men. If his faith is genuine and Orthodox, then he is Orthodox. For those who, at best, are dubious, and, at worst, choose to slander without knowledge of full context; ask yourself. What makes someone's faith genuine: your belief, or what jurisdiction you belong to?
Very sad to read about the outrage and envy of the poor soul of Nectarios the subdeacon. May God be merciful to him. May he repent before it's too late. 😢 Lord have mercy!
Father, I had heard that Father Peter Heers was condemned by ROCOR for operating without a bishop and is thus a person others should not go to for guidance at this time. Am I misled in this? Has this changed? I just want to make sure I am receiving direction from good sources.
If he is condemned by ROCOR, why is he able to celebrate the Holy Mysteries with H.G. Luke of Syracuse (ROCOR)? There are some accusations and misunderstandings among laity and clergy, but no condemnation of Fr Peter by the ROCOR synod. I would encourage a review of all sides, a sweet disposition, and praying for God’s will to be done.
Well no, the problem isn't that he doesn't have a bishop, the problem is that multiple bishops can claim him. Craig tertulia has a good video and paper on it
@leopistis3560 I heard from an eyewitness that Fr. Peter had disagreements with Bishop Luke about the Greek Old-calendarists. Bishop Luke (who is friends with GOC Metropolitan Demetrios), keeps the ROCOR traditional view concerning the zealots. He learned it from holy people. You can't blame him.
@@tekzadok8413 I'll preface this by saying I've appreciated most of what I've heard from Fr. Peter. However, I remain unclear on this point. While many could, do any of them claim him? Does any Bishop anywhere say "he reports to me"? If not, that ambiguity seems problematic, no?
Please see the lecture by Fr. Filotheos on THE ORTHODOX ETHOS CZcams Channel posted a few weeks ago where he shows that much of the WEST stood opposed to the Filioque (contrary to many's opinions today) even up to and after its IMPOSITION in ROME in 1014...
Seventh Ecumenical council got that elevation because council with complete representation of all Patriarchates held in 879-880 AD did it. However, that council is so far only deemed to be 8th one, is still pending such title, as only 9th one can do it and 9th one did not happen yet. Simple.
@@matheusmotta1750 Quote from OrthodoxWiki: "Sometimes also referred to as the Fifth Council of Constantinople, the result of these councils is regarded as the Ninth Ecumenical Council BY SOME Orthodox Christians BUT NOT OTHERS. Principal supporters of the view that this series of councils comprises the Ninth Ecumenical Council include Metropolitan Hierotheos (Vlachos) of Nafpaktos, Fr. John S. Romanides, and Fr. George Metallinos." If we look as to who wants it to be 9th EC - Greeks only. And Greeks are not pleroma of the Orthodoxy. Sorry. Pleroma of the Orthodoxy recognizes 7 ECs with one pending that designation.
Your take on it is rather legalistic and not essential. The CHURCH has embraced the teachings of the 8th and 9th Councils and this makes the council's teaching universal and thus oecumenical. Moreover, neither of these councils lacks IMPERIAL confirmation. And, finally, the 8th Council under St. Photios HAS been recognized by the CHURCH IN COUNCIL: 1484, when the false council was overturned and which considered itself OECUMENICAL. 1848 Council and Encyclical of the Patriarchs.
@@OrthodoxEthos Legalistic or not, outside of the Greek held Patriarchates, only 7 ECs exist and that is reality. One is pending designation as 9th did not happen to make 8th Ecumenical. 1848 Encyclical was signed by the patriarchs of Constantinople, Jerusalem, Antioch, and Alexandria... which confirms my previous claim that pleroma of the Orthodoxy is not in Greeks held Patriarchates only (signatures of other Orthodox Patriarchates are missing). Principle is principle and after 1000 years of one and the same way of dealing with the ECs' designations, inventions/pushes/wishes of Greeks do not stand as they simply do not have consensus of ALL. So, please stop spreading false information. Thank you.
@@johnnyd2383 no the only reason the 7 number got stuck in Russian catechisms is there was a period where the seminaries in Russia were basically entirely infected by Jesuit teachings, the same period when western incursions led to uniatism. Look into it. It's pretty easy to see. To claim there are only 7 is to fall entirely into papist propaganda. I would highly recommend the work Fr. John Romanides did on the history of this issue. Other 20th century catechists also were aware of this such as Fr. John Meyendorff. Many Russian scholars and catechists became acutely aware of the disconnect between these "catechisms" and the totality of the liturgical and prayer services in the faith (Read the Synodikon for the first Sunday of Lent for instance). Fr. Meyendorff's work famously brought St. Gregory Palamas to much revived interest in the modern world after a period of him being ignored due to suppression of his teachings in this period of history. Rome has long been absolutely terrified of how swiftly his teachings refute their scholastic heresies. Rome acknowledged the Photian council up until the middle ages when the contradictions between it and the later pronouncements on the filioque at Lyons and Florence were too problematic. It was then dropped and switched with the poorly attended nicolatian robber council in 869. It's easy to rewrite history when you are the only one in the room with no conciliarity to provide a check.
@@leopistis3560 (“If you have a Bishop or Priest that teaches heresy by all means.. The Fathers tell you to flee them in the sense of contact… Not communion”- Fr. Peter Heers ) “All the teachers of the Church, and all the Councils, and all the Divine Scriptures advise us to flee from the heterodox and separate from their communion.” (St. Mark of Ephesus) “Chrysostomos loudly declares not only heretics, but also those who have communion with them, to be enemies of God.” (St. Theodore the Studite, Epistle of Abbot Theophilus) “If your bishop be heretical, flee, flee, flee as from fire and a serpent” (Saint John Chrysostom) St. John the Almsgiver said: “We shall not escape sharing in that punishment which, in the world to come, awaits heretics, if we defile Orthodoxy and the holy Faith by adulterous communion with heretics.”
The fault isn't his, and it's not that he doesn't isn't in a jurisdiction, it's that multiple jurisdictions can claim him, educate yourself before making dumb comments, God bless
No Father Peter that Orthodox Patristic Witness did not take me six years to research, compile, and write. It took me exactly 11 months to compile that book. You cannot even be honest about the origin of how that book actually got created?
Editors: The Orthodox Ethos. A collective effort of the team. You were a part of that team, then. The idea and the beginning was years before your involvement. That is the truth. Why do you want to make sure everyone knows about your involvement so much when you no longer agree with the work, etc.?
@@BlindRdrJohn God forgive you and your slander... It will not be to Fr. Peter's detriment but it will be to yours and to others. It is generally not a good idea to judge clergy. It is a no win… really, according to Elder Ephraim of blessed holy memory: If you judge a worthy priest, you have a live, burning charcoal in your mouth. If you judge a priest who is unworthy, you have the black charcoal in your mouth. IN either case, you have a burning or blackened mouth.
@@OrthodoxEthos Yeah did you forget I have the original manuscript still (before you removed Archbishop Averky of Jordanville and replaced him with Romanides) and every original source for nearly every footnote in that book, every email from every library, and all communication that went into that? The research was a collective effort of what you call the "extended team" in Virginia. The collective was two people for 99% of the book. "Thou shalt not lie."
As a convert from papism to Orthodoxy Ss. Photius and Gregory Palamas are very near to my heart! More people need to know about the 8th and 9th councils, they are chronically ignored and vast swathes of peoples are completely ignorant to this history. Thank you for shedding light on this Frs. ☦️🙏🏻 May God bless your ministries!
I pray we get more translations into english of the dilligent work Fr. John Romanides did researching the history around the 8th council and the ceasaropapism being pushed by the Frankish kingdom onto Rome that eventually leads to the invention of a new religion in rome which sadly persists to our day.
Fr. Paul's advice about reading the lives of ancient saints and modern was where my doubts with papism really began, dipping my toes into the Desert Fathers and seeing next to no continuity between them and modern roman catholicism, but when I read about St. Seraphim of Sarov the lightbulb went on.
This is almost the exact same story as my own. Even with the route of the desert fathers and ancient saints and comparing them to modern saints in RC and EO. EO modern saints have the same Spirit, mindset, etc... as the 1st millenium saints. Definitely not the case with RC modern "saints." Gregory Palamas and Photius are near and dear to me as well
@@mathieuconklin3146 Glory to God brother, He is so merciful!
Awesome talk, please more with Fr. Peter
Very edifiying! Thank you, Fathers for this awesome dialogue. Much Love and respect for both of you. Fr. Peter and Fr Paul. ☦🙏💗
Thank God for these two wonderful and pious Priests!
Excellent conversation, thank you Fathers!
Two of my favorite priests.
Two of my favorite priests!
Two of the best
It was a privilege to go to the Eighth Oecumenical council conference that Orthodox Ethos put on this year. Many received a copy of the acts there. Our group read much of it on the way back from the conference. I highly recommend it. Thank you Fr Peter and all the Orthodox Ethos staff for working hard to publish it. I look forward to your next conference.
The final, complete edition of the ACTS of the COUNCIL is forthcoming, including much more material:
The commentary of Patriarch Dositheos of Jerusalem
The introduction by the same
The introduction by the editor of the modern Greek edition
Copious footnotes
God willing, soon... within 40 days or so... Prayers coveted.
@@OrthodoxEthoswill be looking to obtain copies.
Great interview Fathers. Reading about the life of st. Photius the First of Constantinople was instrumental in my conversion. We need to restore commemoration of the 8th Ecumenical Council in parishes.
Wonderful Combo!
To all those who persist in judging Fr Peter Heers on account of not being claimed by a canonical bishop, know that you could bring condemnation upon yourself. Only Christ knows the hearts and minds of all men. If his faith is genuine and Orthodox, then he is Orthodox. For those who, at best, are dubious, and, at worst, choose to slander without knowledge of full context; ask yourself. What makes someone's faith genuine: your belief, or what jurisdiction you belong to?
Thank you, Fathers!
Amazing cross over 🙏
Very sad to read about the outrage and envy of the poor soul of Nectarios the subdeacon. May God be merciful to him. May he repent before it's too late. 😢 Lord have mercy!
Double cause was also officially declared in the Council of Florence, wasn't it?
Father, I had heard that Father Peter Heers was condemned by ROCOR for operating without a bishop and is thus a person others should not go to for guidance at this time. Am I misled in this? Has this changed? I just want to make sure I am receiving direction from good sources.
If he is condemned by ROCOR, why is he able to celebrate the Holy Mysteries with H.G. Luke of Syracuse (ROCOR)?
There are some accusations and misunderstandings among laity and clergy, but no condemnation of Fr Peter by the ROCOR synod. I would encourage a review of all sides, a sweet disposition, and praying for God’s will to be done.
Well no, the problem isn't that he doesn't have a bishop, the problem is that multiple bishops can claim him. Craig tertulia has a good video and paper on it
@leopistis3560 I heard from an eyewitness that Fr. Peter had disagreements with Bishop Luke about the Greek Old-calendarists. Bishop Luke (who is friends with GOC Metropolitan Demetrios), keeps the ROCOR traditional view concerning the zealots. He learned it from holy people. You can't blame him.
@@tekzadok8413 I'll preface this by saying I've appreciated most of what I've heard from Fr. Peter. However, I remain unclear on this point. While many could, do any of them claim him? Does any Bishop anywhere say "he reports to me"? If not, that ambiguity seems problematic, no?
@@ServantofGod-zj3jdvladika luke only speaks positively about fr peter. As for rocor, there is no "condemnation" or any discipline.
👍👍👍
This is my Avengers: Endgame
FYI:
THE HOROS of the COUNCIL:
czcams.com/video/2qFIjMw0FEI/video.htmlsi=vEZ9wuL5d49FnFAR
Early adopters of the Filioque were Spain, Portugal and England, none of whom were represented at your Eighth “Oecumenical” Council.
Please see the lecture by Fr. Filotheos on THE ORTHODOX ETHOS CZcams Channel posted a few weeks ago where he shows that much of the WEST stood opposed to the Filioque (contrary to many's opinions today) even up to and after its IMPOSITION in ROME in 1014...
@@david_porthouse , neither did they represent the Church. If they were the only ones to defend this teaching, their position would still be rejected.
They were represented by their patriarch...
No popes were also present at any of the first 7 ECs...
@@Fac35437 legates were
Seventh Ecumenical council got that elevation because council with complete representation of all Patriarchates held in 879-880 AD did it. However, that council is so far only deemed to be 8th one, is still pending such title, as only 9th one can do it and 9th one did not happen yet. Simple.
The 9th Ecumenical Council happened, it was V Constantinople, the Palamite Councils.
@@matheusmotta1750 Quote from OrthodoxWiki: "Sometimes also referred to as the Fifth Council of Constantinople, the result of these councils is regarded as the Ninth Ecumenical Council BY SOME Orthodox Christians BUT NOT OTHERS. Principal supporters of the view that this series of councils comprises the Ninth Ecumenical Council include Metropolitan Hierotheos (Vlachos) of Nafpaktos, Fr. John S. Romanides, and Fr. George Metallinos."
If we look as to who wants it to be 9th EC - Greeks only. And Greeks are not pleroma of the Orthodoxy. Sorry. Pleroma of the Orthodoxy recognizes 7 ECs with one pending that designation.
Your take on it is rather legalistic and not essential. The CHURCH has embraced the teachings of the 8th and 9th Councils and this makes the council's teaching universal and thus oecumenical. Moreover, neither of these councils lacks IMPERIAL confirmation.
And, finally, the 8th Council under St. Photios HAS been recognized by the CHURCH IN COUNCIL:
1484, when the false council was overturned and which considered itself OECUMENICAL.
1848 Council and Encyclical of the Patriarchs.
@@OrthodoxEthos Legalistic or not, outside of the Greek held Patriarchates, only 7 ECs exist and that is reality. One is pending designation as 9th did not happen to make 8th Ecumenical. 1848 Encyclical was signed by the patriarchs of Constantinople, Jerusalem, Antioch, and Alexandria... which confirms my previous claim that pleroma of the Orthodoxy is not in Greeks held Patriarchates only (signatures of other Orthodox Patriarchates are missing). Principle is principle and after 1000 years of one and the same way of dealing with the ECs' designations, inventions/pushes/wishes of Greeks do not stand as they simply do not have consensus of ALL. So, please stop spreading false information. Thank you.
@@johnnyd2383 no the only reason the 7 number got stuck in Russian catechisms is there was a period where the seminaries in Russia were basically entirely infected by Jesuit teachings, the same period when western incursions led to uniatism. Look into it. It's pretty easy to see. To claim there are only 7 is to fall entirely into papist propaganda.
I would highly recommend the work Fr. John Romanides did on the history of this issue. Other 20th century catechists also were aware of this such as Fr. John Meyendorff. Many Russian scholars and catechists became acutely aware of the disconnect between these "catechisms" and the totality of the liturgical and prayer services in the faith (Read the Synodikon for the first Sunday of Lent for instance). Fr. Meyendorff's work famously brought St. Gregory Palamas to much revived interest in the modern world after a period of him being ignored due to suppression of his teachings in this period of history. Rome has long been absolutely terrified of how swiftly his teachings refute their scholastic heresies.
Rome acknowledged the Photian council up until the middle ages when the contradictions between it and the later pronouncements on the filioque at Lyons and Florence were too problematic. It was then dropped and switched with the poorly attended nicolatian robber council in 869.
It's easy to rewrite history when you are the only one in the room with no conciliarity to provide a check.
Oh cool. What church or jurisdiction does he belong to?
xd
He belongs to the Orthodox Church.
Please consider bringing your jurisdictional concerns of Fr Peter to God in humility and prayer.
czcams.com/video/btdmfZwj-bg/video.htmlsi=9MAMed-AmIS5mNWC
@@leopistis3560 (“If you have a Bishop or Priest that teaches heresy by all means.. The Fathers tell you to flee them in the sense of contact… Not communion”- Fr. Peter Heers )
“All the teachers of the Church, and all the Councils, and all the Divine Scriptures advise us to flee from the heterodox and separate from their communion.” (St. Mark of Ephesus)
“Chrysostomos loudly declares not only heretics, but also those who have communion with them, to be enemies of God.” (St. Theodore the Studite, Epistle of Abbot Theophilus)
“If your bishop be heretical, flee, flee, flee as from fire and a serpent” (Saint John Chrysostom)
St. John the Almsgiver said: “We shall not escape sharing in that punishment which, in the world to come, awaits heretics, if we defile Orthodoxy and the holy Faith by adulterous communion with heretics.”
The fault isn't his, and it's not that he doesn't isn't in a jurisdiction, it's that multiple jurisdictions can claim him, educate yourself before making dumb comments, God bless
No Father Peter that Orthodox Patristic Witness did not take me six years to research, compile, and write. It took me exactly 11 months to compile that book. You cannot even be honest about the origin of how that book actually got created?
He has a long history of being disingenuous. It goes all the way back to when he was living in Greece.
Editors: The Orthodox Ethos.
A collective effort of the team.
You were a part of that team, then.
The idea and the beginning was years before your involvement.
That is the truth.
Why do you want to make sure everyone knows about your involvement so much when you no longer agree with the work, etc.?
@@BlindRdrJohn God forgive you and your slander...
It will not be to Fr. Peter's detriment but it will be to yours and to others.
It is generally not a good idea to judge clergy. It is a no win… really, according to Elder Ephraim of blessed holy memory:
If you judge a worthy priest, you have a live, burning charcoal in your mouth.
If you judge a priest who is unworthy, you have the black charcoal in your mouth.
IN either case, you have a burning or blackened mouth.
@@OrthodoxEthos Yeah did you forget I have the original manuscript still (before you removed Archbishop Averky of Jordanville and replaced him with Romanides) and every original source for nearly every footnote in that book, every email from every library, and all communication that went into that? The research was a collective effort of what you call the "extended team" in Virginia.
The collective was two people for 99% of the book. "Thou shalt not lie."
Are you old calenderists?
Comments should be disabled tbh