Judo History Part 1: What came before Jiu-Jitsu? - School Time
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- čas přidán 1. 04. 2018
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There is a really good short documentary called "Judoka" that is about Doug Rogers (Canadian) training judo in Japan in the 1960s. It is on youtube and is less than 20 minutes. It is worth watching.
Just watched it because of your comment
Thanks for the heads up. Just watched it really enjoyable.
Whaaaat? I thought Helio thought up all the armbars and chokes. At least that’s how my instructors made it seem.
Do you realize that without Jigoro Kano there would be no Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu? Dwell on this for some time. There would be no Mixed Martial Arts and the UFC, as it was started by Rorion Gracie. There would be no Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu schools throughout America. I remember reading some of the history of Judo and its development and just breaking down in tears. What that little Japanese man gave the world is beyond words. I'm nothing.
MrBluemanworld lol
It's always possible, and perhaps even probable, that if Kano had never existed, someone else would have come up with the idea to pit martial arts against one another and we would have eventually had some form of MMA. In fact, when you think about it, it almost seems inevitable. There's just too much money to be made. Not taking anything away from Kano, of course :)
:rollseyes:
Lets just ignore 2500 years of human history...
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration
what gave he the world? judo has all his throws from shuai jiao ( chinese wrestling)
@@Supermomo2007 Does Shuai Jiao had ground game like Judo did?
Currently a beginner Judoka. These videos are so helpful in understanding and appreciating Judo more.
How has judo gone for you? I'm a beginner boxer (22 y/o) and I'm considering taking up judo after a year or so, once my foundational boxing skills are proficient. Do you think I'd be starting judo too late? I probably wouldn't want to compete, just do it for fun and self defense.
I love these history lessons and how they are presented. I'm relatively new to Brazilian jiu-jitsu but I want to be a good student of the game and these videos are definitely helping.
In regards to Kosen Judo, there are accounts of Kosen Judo competitions in 1898 between Tokyo High School and Sendai High School.
It wasn't until 1914 that Kosen Judo became officially formalized and championship competitions were held between high schools throughout Japan.
What is important to know is that "pulling guard" was quite a common tactic that was used in judo competitions from the early 1900's to 1924. Pulling guard was just an easy transition from stand up to ground hence why many newaza specialists pulled guard. Pulling guard is known as Hikikomi and closed guard is Hasami Yaku.
In 1925, Jigoro Kano put a ban on pulling guard, and leg locks, because Kano did not like the direction that judo was heading. Kano thought that pulling guard was making judo too sportive and judo was losing its self defense aspect. Kano also believed that Judo should be 70% nagewaza and 30% newaza. Kano only allowed pulling guard in Kosen Judo to continue because he thought that the development of newaza was important to Judo.
After WW2, General MacArthur banned all martial arts that was used by the Japanese military. The Butokukai was shut down in 1946 as a result because it was the Jujutsu schools headquarter. It was a few years later that General MacArthur uplifted the ban and allowed martial arts to be practiced.
In 1952, the 7 Imperial Universities of Japan adopted the Kosen Judo ruleset to keep it alive.
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu - Basically Just Judo
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu looks just like Judo, because it is Basically Just Judo. When Mitsuyo Maeda, a.k.a. "Conde Koma", began teaching Carlos Gracie in Belem do Para, Brazil in 1917, he was teaching Jigoro Kano's Jiu-Jitsu direct from the Kodokan in Japan. The name "Judo" was not popularized until 1925.
Mitsuyo Maeda was a Kodokan Judo instructor whose specialty was ground fighting (newaza). This type of ground-only fighting is often referred to as Kosen Judo, or High School Judo, because it was popularized in Japanese High Schools as a form of interscholastic wrestling. Kosen Judo rules allowed direct transition to newaza, enabling scenarios where one less skilled competitor could drag the other down to the ground (a tactic now known as "pulling-guard" in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu).
There is absolutely no question that the Gracie family demonstrated great skill and marketing acumen by promoting "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to the masses. Helio Gracie's loss to Kodokan Judoka Masahiko Kimura was advertised as a "moral victory". More importantly, the Gracies sponsored the original Ultimate Fighting Championships when the world was begging for a professional combat sport with more depth than Boxing and more realism than the WWF. However, there is now a generation of Jiu-Jitsu students who only know half the story. Worse yet, they are often paying enormous prices for the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu name only to learn a subset of Jigoro Kano's original Jiu-Jitsu techniques and teaching methods.
The Judo world has not been without fault too. High ranking judoka often looked down on the new popular MMA world due to Judo's Olympic status. As a result, most Judo schools have been over-emphasizing the throwing techniques within Judo due to pressure from the International Olympic Comittee to increase ratings on TV for the brief moments when Olympic Judo would receive air time. Similarly, there is a generation of Jiu-Jitsu students, and now instructors, who incorrectly think Judo is nothing but a standing sport.
Fortunately, the phenomenal success of Ronda Rousey, 2008 Olympic Judo Bronze Medalist and UFC / MMA Champion has brought attention back to the accurate history of Judo and its rightful place in the Jiu-Jitsu grappling world.
Source: judokai.net
Great history lesson, extremely well put together. Will be waiting for the next video
I personally learn jiu jitsu....I really love that judo side pin though. Awesome video. Very cool martial arts.
Thank you. Really enjoyed that!
Great presentation on the roots of judo and the creation of its sister schools.
Great lesson. Keep it up
Thanks for doing these videos!
Very broad explanation but loads missing, the Jujitsu schools in Japan challenged the Kodokan for the right to keep jujitsu within the police for self defence, there were approx 100 fights.Because of the disorganisation of jujitsu and no definitive fighting style Judo won 99 and drew one, These were fought to submission with no time limit. It was then that Judo became dominant but remember it wasn't the sport orientated Judo we see today, Just adding to the history. Peace.
ann hoang wait for part 2
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu - Basically Just Judo
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu looks just like Judo, because it is Basically Just Judo. When Mitsuyo Maeda, a.k.a. "Conde Koma", began teaching Carlos Gracie in Belem do Para, Brazil in 1917, he was teaching Jigoro Kano's Jiu-Jitsu direct from the Kodokan in Japan. The name "Judo" was not popularized until 1925.
Mitsuyo Maeda was a Kodokan Judo instructor whose specialty was ground fighting (newaza). This type of ground-only fighting is often referred to as Kosen Judo, or High School Judo, because it was popularized in Japanese High Schools as a form of interscholastic wrestling. Kosen Judo rules allowed direct transition to newaza, enabling scenarios where one less skilled competitor could drag the other down to the ground (a tactic now known as "pulling-guard" in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu).
There is absolutely no question that the Gracie family demonstrated great skill and marketing acumen by promoting "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to the masses. Helio Gracie's loss to Kodokan Judoka Masahiko Kimura was advertised as a "moral victory". More importantly, the Gracies sponsored the original Ultimate Fighting Championships when the world was begging for a professional combat sport with more depth than Boxing and more realism than the WWF. However, there is now a generation of Jiu-Jitsu students who only know half the story. Worse yet, they are often paying enormous prices for the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu name only to learn a subset of Jigoro Kano's original Jiu-Jitsu techniques and teaching methods.
The Judo world has not been without fault too. High ranking judoka often looked down on the new popular MMA world due to Judo's Olympic status. As a result, most Judo schools have been over-emphasizing the throwing techniques within Judo due to pressure from the International Olympic Comittee to increase ratings on TV for the brief moments when Olympic Judo would receive air time. Similarly, there is a generation of Jiu-Jitsu students, and now instructors, who incorrectly think Judo is nothing but a standing sport.
Fortunately, the phenomenal success of Ronda Rousey, 2008 Olympic Judo Bronze Medalist and UFC / MMA Champion has brought attention back to the accurate history of Judo and its rightful place in the Jiu-Jitsu grappling world.
Source: judokai.net
It wasn’t 99 fights it was more like 10.
Very good explanation. TKS oss
I decided to become your latest patron, even though it will be a while before I take up a JJ class. Thank you for this channel, sir! :-)
Thank you for your support! We really appreciate you!
I am 1est dan in judo.What you show us about the beginnings was excellent...congrats .
🥋👍 good history lesson, Kama Bros. !!!
Awesome video
Excellent. 👍
Great video
The ancient Egyptians had a martial art called Montu which was very Judolike.
Thank you for all the knowlege
real good information . i my self know that , but its good for all bjj practitioners to know the real roots of bjj . wonder if the Gracies would approve .....
Another point that he is missing (by a mile!) is with the name Judo.
He is right about the fact that both Judo 柔道 and Jiu-jitsu 柔術 (or "Jujutsu" to be precise) have the same hanzi/kanji 柔, which means "soft". However, the latter character of judo 道,,which means "a path", wasn't actually meant to be a spiritual connotation (although it was an added bonus, that had a nice ring to it! ). It actually refers to the belt ranking system developed (or actually borrowed from game of Go) by Kano Jigoro.
The belt systems we have today in many Japanese oriented martial arts originate from Kano's idea of ranking his students based on Kyu (~amateur) and Dan (~professional). Kano felt like many jiu-jitsu schools at the time were too disoriented, and just taught techniques in random order which made no sense (e.g. learning 'High-flying Throws' before ever learning 'Safe Landing'). He decided to organize the teaching and make it more systematic. By adding belt-system to his jiu-jutsu curriculum; which btw. at the time was known as "Kano Jujutsu", he offered a clear path for his students to follow in order to be come masters of the art.
Now here's an important point: Judo 柔道 is actually an abbreviation of the words "柔術大道" or "柔術道", which literally means "The grand path of Jiu-jitsu" or "The jiu-jitsu way"; i.e. it could be thought something as "a systematic path for the gentle art". Hence, Judo IS NOT a new term or alteration of the word Jiu-jitsu, and it was never meant to be. It is only an abbreviation, where one takes only the first and the last characters to form a shorter version of the word (which is fairly standard way to shorten words in Chinese/Japanese), and refers to Jiu-jitsu itself. However, this point was totally missed by western practitioners and scholars, due to their inability to read hanzi/kanji, and lack of knowledge of Chinese/Japanese linguistics.
PS. Actually the word Jujutsu 柔術 itself is an abbreviation of the words 柔和武術, which means Gentle Martial Arts.
PPS. Thus full name for Judo 柔道 is actually 柔和武術大道, which is a real tongue twister in everyday normal conversation, and further goes to prove the point of why it needs to be abbreviated.
“There were various reasons why I chose not to use the term jujitsu, which described what was ordinarily practiced, and instead employed the name judo. The main reason was that do (way) is the major focus of what the Kodokan teaches, whereas jitsu (skill) is incidental.” -Jigoro Kano, Mind Over Muscle, page 19
hmmm... Sensei Dean cited his source. Cite yours?
"It actually refers to the belt ranking system developed (or actually borrowed from game of Go) by Kano Jigoro."
Utter nonsense. Where on Earth did you get this notion?
"柔道 is actually an abbreviation of the words "柔術大道""
Total BS.
I would also like to see a source for this. If it were different, I’d expect Kano’s own words would be different. He spoke and wrote English.
Cool vid
Aloha, awesome vid! Mahalo.
Good video
Practice which is fun for you or both!
Random comment. This guy has really good handwriting for working on a blackboard.
😂
So goddddddddd!!,!!!
Finally someone that mentions Fusen Ryu, Mateamon Tanabe....
I hope that the true history of Jiu Jitsu and MMA come out instead of the Gracie mythology.
What’s the true history of MMA?
Kama Jiu-Jitsu- for starters HElio was not a small, feeble and sickly man in his youth, but a chiseled athlete, a champion level swimmer, and rower on a winning row team. Many pictures exist depicting HElio in Athletic postures and athletic attire from this era. HElio wasn’t the family champion, George Gracie took on all comers. George was fierce but he wasn’t undefeated. He lost many matches. George was easily the toughest of the brothers...etc. George Mehdi( Rickson’s Judo coach) has many stories like this, as well as other elders. There are also newspaper clippings and other records available from this time. Antonio Inoki is more legitimate in the history of modern MMA than HElio and he was a pro wrestler of mythological proportions.
Both of Kano's first masters die after he starts training with them.... sounds like the plot of a sith lord novel... only two there are, a master and a apprentice.. and when the apprentice learns all the master knows, the apprentice kills the master and assumes the role of sith lord 🤣
I train both judo and jiu jitsu at a Carlson Gracie affiliate school near me
yes, so long as you realize many of the throwing concepts will change/disappear without the "handles" of the gi.
My dear sir, a correction is in order. The Island of Cuba is located in the Caribbean Sea not Latin(South)America. I am giving a minor lesson in geography. However the video is a great one.
Thank you for the correction.
@@KamaJiuJitsu you are welcome. Please continue producing great content.
Wonderful video. =)
Sorry, this clip doesnt answer the question what came before Jiu Jitsu. Because it starts its timeline with Jiu Jitsu. Did you meant: "What came before BJJ"?
I first started practicing Judo when I was 17 back in 1987. Unfortunately, my parents could not afford for me to attend a school that also had a wrestling program. Needless to say I still wondering what would have happened if I continued training....
🤷♂️my (single) mom couldn’t afford it either. So I got a job…
@@KamaJiuJitsu I didn't grow up here in the states. Things were very different back there and back then. The wrestling school was 40 minutes away and not transportation. Getting a job at that time was not going to make it possible either. However, I am now 52 and I have been looking around for a good BJJ or Judo school around where I live here in Western Massachusetts.
I get it. I’m 55 now. So close in age.
Did Kano study Daito-Ryu Aiki Jujutsu? Great video, thanks!
I don't know if he studied Aikijujutsu, but he was a friend and contemporary of Ueshiba. Kano sent many of his senior students to learn Aikido.
Very informative video. Did Meada ever train in Catch Wrestling?
mosey69 Yup. It's not known how many matches were worked though but he did compete in real matches.
Martial Life- they weren’t fake like HElio vs Vladek zybizko.
@EarthlyBeing and jujutsu did learn submissions from kung fu grappling
@EarthlyBeing china na fa
@EarthlyBeing that are no lies, jujutsu was brought from a shaolin monk to japan.
Love your channel.
I have a question: Can doing BJJ for many years cause back problems? I know Rickson Gracie has a lot of herniated discs and I remember Eddie Bravo mentioning on Joe Rogan’s podcast that he has back problems.
It can.
As can driving a car, jumping out of an airplane, being a couch potato.
In other words, don’t let potential back problems stop you from doing jiu-jitsu.
I have found that doing proper warm ups, stretching and proper self car has made BJJ make my poor back stronger and better. I started BJJ with a bad back and my health has improved all around since and my back is in better shape.
here are some tips i've been given by physical therapists, power lifters, and various other types of athletes about preventing back problems:
1) perfect form, always!
2) warm up
3) strengthen your abs and glutes. a weak core and weak glutes (see: interior and posterior pelvic tilt) can cause excessive shearing force and damage your spine
4) mobility! part of what keeps people in bad positions and bad ranges of motion is their lack of full mobility. kelly starrett has a book "becoming a supple leopard" that is often recommended. i also find that warmups done in karate, taekwondo, and kickboxing help because they often times NEED to be able to highkick, which requires much much more flexibility and mobility than most people ever need.
5) do your best to avoid being slammed or spiked into the floor, but if it's unavoidable it should be on a soft surface like a mat and not the concrete.
most BJJ practitioners realize that they can only improve if they have people to train with. It is in their best interest that you are health and able to perform at your best. If you let the people you are training with know of your concerns they will most likely be accommodating so you can reach your potential without paying an unreasonable cost to your own health.
Right . We Brasil8ans know jiujitsu ; judo and ninjitsu...
Judoooooo
That's actually not true what he mentioned about the competitions with other styles. If you look at the records outside the judo schools (which could be argued to be a little biased), e.g. news paper articles, gambling records, posters etc.) Judo did indeed do well against western boxers and other striking styles, but they had a very hard time with wrestlers (which at the time meant Catch wrestling; since current Freestyle wrestling was not born yet).
Not only the western wrestlers were larger (no weight categories at that time) and more athletic, but they also had superior competition oriented techniques due to the fact that wrestling at that time focused solely on competition, while judo tried to focus on both competition and self-defense aspects (very similar to today's competition oriented JJ schools vs self-defense JJ schools).
As a result judo lost so many matches against wrestlers, that at some point Kodokan actually forbade it's representatives to take on challenge matches against wrestlers. At one point there was even a wrestler by the name of Ad Santel who became the unofficial "Judo champion of the world", which really pissed of a lot of judokas, and sprung a lot of challenge matches against him ... to no avail.
is it true that judo took a lot groundwork from catch wrestling?
@Mitchit is not clear, we should not forget that chinese martial arts have bigh influence on jujitsu
@Mitch but i did mention it , because your knowledge is wrong about catch!!
7:02
Kosen judo
8:50
You forgot the 3rd part which is: Kumite! Kumite! Kumite!
Quach7 judo doesn’t use the term kumite. That’s karate.
Quach7 as frank dux said the judoka didn't do very well in the kumite
Lol, Dux was a fraud.
You mean randori
Frank Dux is a conman.
5:05 Why do you keep saying and writing "jiujitsu" when talking from an historical perspective about a Japanese word that does not contain 2/3 of those syllables (jujutsu)? "Jiu" is a common Western misspelling: the first character of jujutsu (柔術) is the same than judo (柔道) and is pronounced the same.
because JIU-Jitsu is what we learned and what we do and teach? i didn't learn jujutsu, just like i didn't learn BJJ or karate.
@@KamaJiuJitsu I am not sure I understand what you mean. The sentence in the video is: "Why does he (Jigoro Kano) changed the name from jiujitsu to judo". It is about how Kano branded his art (Kano jujutsu / judo), how is what you learned more than a century later relevant in this case?
Jiu and Ju were both common transliterations of the same character. Early books even referred to Jiudo. It wasn’t until later that Ju was standardized in Judo.
www.amazon.com/Complete-Kano-Jiu-Jitsu-Jiudo-Judo/dp/B00AL1VVSS
A little history from Brazil. There were many Japanese teaching ju jitsu in Brazil and all over the world at the time. Some raising the flag of ju jitsu some straight from kodokan dojo. The Gracies didn’t want to fall under kodokan umbrella and their structure. The Gracies had their own vision and needed the freedom to do whatever they wanted. Also they were using and training more as a martial art then a sport. Just like many other Japanese teaching in Brazil, they were teaching ju jitsu and marketing themselves as a ju jitsu, fighter and teachers at the time. Promoting themselves not kodokan dojo in Japan.
Ju Jitsu became Kano ju jitsu that became kodokan judo. All the modern stuff like BJJ, sambo, Olympic judo, submission wrestling are all amazing branches from the same tree.
When gracies took it to US they patented Gracie jiu jitsu. In Brazil it was always called Jiu-Jitsu only. With the competition scene of sport jiu jitsu growing in Brazil and the refinement of the techniques and growth of the sport many gyms and people were getting promoted and opening business. In the US the same thing people were migrating to teach the art after the boom from the UFC. So with the money opportunities in the US many people wanted to teach jiu jitsu but didn’t want to pay to use the Gracie name. So the need to created Brazilian jiu jitsu federation for marketing purposes, to create a federation and show that was the same art from the Gracies.
Peace ✌🏻 and please go train both modern BJJ + modern judo = real ju jitsu
Best of both worlds. Respect both sports because it is the same art. Respect all the pioneers that paved the way on both sides. Because of each person involved we today have all these greatness of grappling around. Osu !
That’s what I’M sayin!
Thank you for your well thought out comment and contribution!
@@KamaJiuJitsu man thank you for such great video and history. We need more schools like yours. This theory should be part of the curriculum to get a blue belt.
In my opinion two major things play a big factor when ju jitsu went to Brazil.
First, the Gracies and other lineages as you mention focused much more on ground fighting. The Sport league was created only in 1969 by Helio Gracie if I am not mistaken. The main goal was fighting and self defense.
Real challenges for promotion and for that you need a lil more then a few good take downs and more newaza against most of non grappling styles.
Secondly, I assume that they probably knew the Japanese were years ahead and couldn't compete with them standing so why not focus on what the Japanese were training the least and be able to compete against them bringing the same problem from the past. History repeats itself as kodokan had problems with Ryu ju jitsu years earlier.
Carlos Gracie was marketing genius.
All the fights against the judokas were either long or no time limit also had no points. They knew they would get thrown hard but always looking to bring the fight to the ground and find a submission. That’s why many these matches were considered “draws”
The Gracies somehow some way were able to maintain the old style alive as judo progressed more and more towards stand up as the years went by. Otherwise everything would have turned into judo if you think about it.
Many people forget that there were many Japanese fighter that were in Brazil promoting and marketing themselves as ju jitsu fighters and teachers as well, and not promoting the kodokan from Japan. Remember they were immigrants starting a new life in Brasil. Trying to make money. Of course there were some Japanese promoting the kodokan as well. That's why Brazil has a solid Olimpic Judo team and great judo schools there.
But history repeats itself again in the sense since later on we have many jiu jitsu schools all over the world and they don’t teach the “Gracie curriculum” if you think about it. Many different curriculums. Very interesting!
Going to check the second video now. Osu !
I’m sorry but calling it “Brazilian Jiujitsu” is just dumb to me. Yes the art has evolved from Brazil but to call it Brazilian is ridiculous. The art started from Japan and should pay homage to its roots. It’s funny when I see bjj practitioners walk around with the Japanese calligraphy tattoo that says JuJitsu and when I approach them and say oh Japanese Jujitsu. They tell me “no” it’s “Brazilian Jiujitsu”. GTFOH lol. It’s sad that tradition isn’t being taught in schools and kids are getting promoted to black belt and not knowing the fundamentals of the art and self defense. Just my point of view coming from a black belt in both styles