How Forced Romance Hurts People
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- čas přidán 6. 08. 2024
- Airing my greviances against female love interests in male fiction and how these stories may hurt people. To avoid putting certain people off, I somehow manage to dance around the word "heteronormativity" (though patriarchy does slip through).
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Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
01:42 Adam and Eve
03:30 Mary Magdalene
04:42 Romeo and Juliet
05:43 Boy Meets World
08:42 Sunrise: a Song of Two Humans
11:00 City Lights
12:34 Taxi Driver and Megamind
16:09 I Dream of Jeannie
18:53 Urusei Yatsura
23:02 Scott Pilgrim
26:10 ShawnGela and Schroeder
30:20 Oyasumi PunPun
36:34 Peep Show
44:05 Conclusion
Tracklist-
Matrimonio All'Italiana suite - Armando Trovajoli
Sospendi il Tempo - Ennio Morricone (ft. Edda Dell'Orso)
La Lettre de Rosalie (instrumental) - Philippe Sarde
Girl Theme - Trevor Duncan
Instellar Romantic Escape - Piero Piccioni
Bayybe 3 - Bilo 503
I Dream of Jeannie Intro 1
Urusei Yatsura BGM: Koukyoukyoku 'Douran' Dai'ni Gakushou Yori
Puppet (instrumental) - Tyler, The Creator
Suggestione - Bruno Nicolai
Bitches Brewin (instrumental) - Tyler, The Creator/ Odd Future
I Don't Wanna Waste My Time (instrumental) - Joji
When Vanishing - King Krule
Perfecto Miserable (slowed) - King Krule
Watercolors - John Daley and the 41 Players
Via Veneto E I Nobili - Nino Rota
La Station Service (instrumental) - Michel Legrand - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Bruh a narrative where a man almost kills a woman and then they fall back in love is truly so disgusting that it’s hard to believe.
And you think it would have at least taken place over more than a day! I was thinking months at least.
Oh you'll have a field day if i told you how many toxic korean romance manhwas story lines are exactly like this.
Oddly/sadly enough it is realistic. Tho it shouldn't be portrayed as good.
Stockholm Syndrome: The Movie
it's not hard to believe
Megamind is ALWAYS a credible source for serious media and literature discussions, I will die on this hill
FACTS.
Yes!!!
you and me both brother
@@youre_totally_right_but_ megamind is the model man more men should strive to be (the character development I mean)
Yeah that's my favorite animated movie, it's so perfect
"I can fix him" romances are so gross the lesson should be to fix yourself, and yes Megamind is one of the best kids movies ever
Overated af movie
@@joegambitt7414damn bro you really got them with the contrarian opinion, destroyed their whole claim even. Truly are the memelord.
@@joegambitt7414 I completely disagree, but okay.
“I can fix him” more like “I can manipulate him to suit me”
@@WindVillageeveryone manipulates people lmao
To all the men out there: you’re not your relationship with a woman (or whatever), you’re ken-ough!
mens value doesn't change when he gets into a relationship. historically it's the woman's value that's based on whether or not she has a husband.
men will be fine
@@daphys_computershow2054 totally agree! …although my comment was a Barbie movie inside joke ;p have a nice day!
@@daphys_computershow2054I would argue than men also struggle with that historically, it’s just not as difficult due to women also having to deal with misogyny on top of it. Men (speaking from the perspective of countries like the UK and Australia since I haven’t got much experience outside of that) were and in many places now are expected to marry a woman and have children to continue the family bloodline, those who fail to comply for whatever reason (such as being queer, not wishing to have kids, uninterested in a relationship at all etc) were ridiculed.
None of this downplays the very real blame that gets placed on women for this ofc, more to show how much this model hurts everyone involved
As an ace person I tend to not like romance, but after I got home from watching the Barbie movie, I sort of wished Barbie and Ken end up together in the movie, or at least say that they’re taking a break from each other until they figure each other out until they’re content with themselves.
its ironic cause I think the movie was the only one where they don’t romantically end up together, or one of them confesses not to have any feelings for the other. Its also ironic because I never even like Barbie/Ken, because they never had that much personality, but in the movie they were given a personality (or a chance to) have a personality outside of their partners, I think that might be why I like them from the movie specifically. Not that they need to end up together
@@steampunk-llama these are very good points usually people from many sides are not ready to speak about… to me patriarchy is not so much about men rule just because they are men (that would be an androarchy to be precise) but powerful men who historically used coercive tactics to undermine others (men, women, anyone really)… maybe you don’t fancy using the word patriarchy (neither do i to be honest) but yep, everybody gets messed up because of these things in their own particular way ;)
The pressure and focus on romance is so disturbing. It shouldn't be seen as a flaw when people (or characters) are single and uninterested in romance
disturbing?
War crimes*. I sleep!
Ppl holding hands* Oh no?
Romance is a base desire. You can say the same about the pressure / obsession our culture has with sex, beauty, eating, protection, belonging, power, etc. Romance is a base desire as much as independence is. Barbie is also disturbing on her own, she just swings to a different side of the pendulum. Maybe think why you are disturbed by Ken being so desperate for a relationship and what that says about you and how you see the world. I personally found Barbie more disturbing than Ken, and I am sure that also says something about me. Art reflects life.
^ Replies with zero reading comprehension
What?
@@jesterdays The dude had a pretty reasonable and well thought out take, most human beings seek romance. Most human beings seek a ideal life.
There is no real pressure to focus on romance, it is just something that makes characters easily relatable for most human beings.
Now in real life that pressure comes in the form of empathy (my relationship makes me happy, without it I would be sad, you need the same thing)
Can you engage with the subject beyond a cringe meme?
I always find it funny how so many people never realized that we were supposed to view Scott and Ramona as bad people lol
I think the concept of the antihero is largely entirely misunderstood.
People always think that having someone taking bad decisions as a protagonist would either somehow glorify those decisions or something like that, when in reality these kinds of shows or books try to shade light on the shades of grey that is human decision making and instead of "justifying" bad decisions it just wants to protray the way people got to make those bad decisions
I mean, just look at the controversy around the Netflix show "You" for example with there apparently being some kind of cult thinking Joe would be in the right or something (despite it literally being the point of the show that *he's not*)
It feels like people need to project themselves onto protagonists and aren't able to view stories outside of how they personally can relate to them...? So of course antihero protagonists don't make sense to them.
@@prisleI feel like show bojack horseman was better at this tbh
@@skromnyashahave you actually read the Scott Pilgrim comic?
I guess, I was one of few to see that Scott and Ramona were actually the same - flawed, egoistic people who hurted everyone around them.
And do you remember Roxanna Richter, one of Ramona's "evil exes"? Ramona literally queerbaited her just for experimentation and then dumped the poor girl and treated her past romance with Roxanna as "just a sexy phase".
As a bi woman, I felt bad for Roxanna, and didn't like that Ramona treated her that bad. Roxanna had a full right to hate her.
@@peachesandcream22 "one of the few" including anyone who has finished the comic where it's very clear and the main focus of both of their character arcs.
three decades of immersion in a media that tells the same story over and over again and only just now after watching your video have I realised that "fairly average man meets Pretty Girl who talks him into taking risks and going on adventures, destroying his safe-yet-boring existence yet giving his life Meaning" is just the Fall From Eden with a coat of paint...
Works also for women and bad into good guys trope
It's a damn good story idea then to survive so long.
the ultimate misogyny flavored trope
this also just boils down past gender roles
Manic Pixie Dream Girl trope
In Jewish writings Adam is at fault because he told her not to touch the tree when he was only commanded not to eat from it. So when the snake was like "well you touched it and you didn't die" she thought Adam had lied to her. So the lesson is don't talk down to a woman and give her all the facts, also extremism breeds sin.
I like this concept very much. The concept of that one who gets taught an unnecessarily heavier version of the rules becomes more vulnerable to temptation to break them.
I wish more people realized this! It's my favorite narration of the Fall precisely because it's the only one that doesn't blame the woman, and I hate seeing it misrepresented so often
Editbecausenowmultiplepeoplehavemisinterpretedmywords: I like this story because Eve isn't the scapegoat for Adam, nor is Adam's curse afflicted on him by anyone but himself. It also doesn't make women out to be evil/stupid/etc.
Interesting. In the Qura’n, the fault is theirs both.
@@callieanderson644regardless, they were both at fault. It is has always been both of their fault. Jewish exact translation/interpretation or Christian version. Whew! What a relief! 🙄
The point behind the Jewish interpretation is interesting and gives another take on a deep meaning though.
How the hell did you come to that conclusion
What I hate about most romance content is that most relationships are toxic! They romanticize abuse. And it's all fun and games until it wraps your sense of love and you end up in bad relationships.
Healthy couples are harder to find.
It's because we've been conditioned to lie in even casual friendships and then shame people for not meeting our standards. Like we can be outright awful to each other. Not realizing none of us had it figured out when we were younger.
The kissing booth in a nutshell.
Malheureusement cette vidéo le fait ironiquement aussi car elle applique le double standard.
Another lesson people need to learn is how to separate fiction from reality in general. You can learn important themes and messages from stories, but you should never view them as step-by-step guides on how to live your life and develop your own personality. Fiction is always far more exaggerated and unrealistic than any actual real life scenario.
This right here is facts separate Fiction from Reality, a lot of things are exaggerated in Fiction because it’s just that not real, the people that act like oh I should live my life like a Cartoon or an Anime and let’s be honest both are just for entertainment that’s it I don’t even think their necessarily to learn lessons from because how many people act like how Spider man does when he has problems or an MC in an Anime talking about the power of friendship and saves the day and gets his girlfriend.
So I think people need to stop applying things they see from TV to real life I would expect that from a child who doesn’t know any better, not older people who should know better than that and know how to act.
This is why there are a lot of "nice guys". Who think kindness towards women is transactional and that if they are "kind" once they owe them. But it isn't really kindness if you expect something in return and most of the time their version of kindness is not beating them. and when it doesn't work out for them they turn to insult and all of a sudden they thought they were ugly all along and them begging for sex was somehow a service to them lmao. Or even worse the stalk them.
This 💪
Hetero relationships are almost always transactional because of patriarchal our world is, esp white patriarchal brainwashing.
Wait till you meet the real nice guy....... - hang in there, nice.............. but cool.... *_the hero of legend._*
@@yourknightmanny I don't need to "hang in there" lol I'm married and calling him a hero of legend would make him cringe so hard he'd vomit lol. dating wasn't hard for me because it is very easy to weed out the truly good people form the "nice guys/girls" if some one expects something in return for their kindness they aren't actually kind. because real kindness is just doing the right thing because it's the right thing and only needing the satisfaction of knowing they did something good as payment for it. most normal people practice real kindness everyday it's kind of not hard at all to find a decent person.
@@faithhelsel4473 What naivety is there in not knowing that most incels who called themselves that are old farts by now and the ones now who do not know of the origins of the phrase are troubled by that since they themselves do not fall into its bigoted origins seek to make less out of human desire to get rid of desire that is understandable but lacking social cues to get over their hurdle? Some didn't have friends; some were friends with girls but didn't have the courage to put their feelings out there.
The thing about Yatsura, too, is that it's damaging to spread the idea that men love the hunt and not women.
Exactly... Or that guys don't actually love girls or women for who they are, they love the idea of them existing next to them.
@missstranger7697
It's stuff like this and the glorification of abuse that really makes me eyeroll at romance, honestly.
I always saw it as a critique of it. Because you're constantly shown this happening and how much it affects it.
It's pointing a finger to it, not saying "this is how it should be done"
@@jusa297 But it doesn't givr anything constructive it feels like "it is what it is"
C'est vrai, mais les femmes font d'autres mauvaises actions aussi dans cette série.
26:04 the fact that you didn’t say, Scott gets off scott free is infinitely upsetting to me
Thank you, I actively sought out this comment to like it.
This is why I like studio Ghibli films as it doesn't have forced romances. ( I'm hopeless romantic but sadly a lot if romance tropes are harmful and warp your perspective ) And Hayao Miyazaki never creates two dimensional women tropes but as self sufficient people with lives and goals and may need a friend but never a savior.
I also love that he made girls, girls. They were self-sufficient, and feminine, and amazing and beautiful for so many reasons that don't detract from their femininity, and all this without needing to sexualize them! One of the women I always looked up to from childhood was Sosuke's mom from Ponyo. A total badass, the best mom in the world
Fr. Hayao Miyazaki knows how to write women and characters in general. My favorite example of this is in his first movie (before the creation of Studio Ghibli), Lupin the Third: The Castle of Cagliostro. In the manga and anime series of Lupin the Third, there's this girl named Fujiko who was created in the image of what the creator and men in the studio wanted her to be. In the early days of the series, she was a girlboss dont get me wrong but they did her mad dirty with all the sexism and misogyny. And yet, Miyazaki in 1979 (who also previously worked on a few episodes of the anime) created a version of Fujiko that wasn't written to be Lupin's partner (in fact in the movie she states that they are no longer together and that it was her that left him). And even the "damsel in distress" character, Clarisse, wasn't even that much of a damsel in distress. She liked Lupin probably because he saved her but I'm so greatful Miyazaki didn't make them end up together. And on top of that, the manga and anime usually depict Lupin as a terrible guy but Miyazaki made him actually likeable (although I myself like a few versions of Lupin in the anime). If you haven't seen it, I definitely would recommend it.
@@callieanderson644I mean Anna from "When Marnie was there" was still more tomboyish and couldnt relate to girl typical things but I like that depiction of not fitting into a gender role as well once in a while since such girls exist too.
Maybe that's the reason why I actually loved some romance in some studio Ghibli movies, but romance in most other movies and TV-shows very rarely appeal to me...
Also his Ghibli boys has the most respectful and competent roles on the film too. They are flawed but they have conviction and open to change for the better.
Edit: just realized that the thing that differentiate them to most male leads was their softness. There's just something gentle about them, not the usual 'gentle men' but something soft, safe, and warm.
I've always had a bit of a disdain for how most shows have the main female character and the main male character end up together, and the whole notion that men and women can't just be close friends but HAVE to have romantic feelings for each other.
The reason for this is that i, a girl, am best friends with a boy. We've been friends since kindergarten, sat next to each other in nearly every class throughout middle school and were generally very friendly with each other, though it more had a vibe of siblings picking on one another.
Our school mates took all this as evidence that we were dating, to the point that one boy, who was two years older than us and who i didn't know basically at all, gave me the nickname "[friend's] woman". "[FRIEND'S] WOMAN". I was like 11 or 12.
It took me actually getting a boyfriend and being seen with him in public for these idiots to leave me and my friend alone.
I get what you mean, even tho Sometimes I really like when the main characters who are close friends fall in love and get togheter after creating a deep bond first, because I think that’s how you build a Healthy relationship (IMO) and it goes against the “love at first sight” trope, wich I personally hate.
I think it works well As long as they also have other close friends of the opposite gender without any romantic interest involved.
I think that’s a good compromise, best of both worlds, that way you can show they can also have a healthy platonic relationship with the opposite gender, without wanting to get togheter, while still having a healthy, more believable, not rushed romantic relationship with their love interest.
@@rebecca_rh ye, i agree.
Just write your own story.
If you don't like a writer having two characters fall in love.
@@lephinor2458 Oh shut up, you know exactly what she's saying, and shes allowed to express an opinion of something thats very common in media
Yeah your right, I'm also pretty sick of this, it happens in a lot of games I play. Male and Female character EXISTS, and then they HAVE to love eachother because they are male and female, a lot of the time the romance isnt even built up, they jsut start saying they love eachother and I dont know why theres no flirting, its just the guy was nice to her or she was nice to him, or they are both "nice" people or whatever. It sucks
Man, this is so well articulated. The way these stories perpetuate unrealistic ideals and expectations to men hurts men as well as the women in their life resulting in lonely angry people. We need more stories about self love and self fulfillment where men don't base their worth on the woman having into their arm.
It's a story!!!! Sorry that everything isn't realistic.
@@lephinor2458 Unfortunately some people take stories too seriously sometimes, just look at the disappointment surrounding high school musical vs actual real life high school experience. The number of people who are bitter and complain how their teen life isn't like the ones in tv and movies is sad.
The problem is that people have been raised on stories since the tv entered the average home. You have hours of input that repeat certain patterns in your head that ultimately shape your perspective.
There’s a reason beyond hum-buggery that our ancestors used to consider people always reading fiction to be ridiculous and air-headed people. If your fantasy experts is much greater than your real world experience, the former becomes the direction.
Knowing the stories are fake doesn’t change the fact that your internal logic is being compromised to accommodate what you’re regularly hearing/seeing every day.
@lephinor2458
Attention everyone this person is clearly biased and is in multiple comments being defensive and arguing in bad faith.
@@lephinor2458 Stories dont have to be realistic, but when the same tropes keep playing over and over thousands of times with not nearly enough variation to counter it, its gonna affect many people on a subconscious level and start to affect how they see the world, what they expect in life and find important. It doesnt have to be realistic, but the norms for romance should be broken much ofter than they do. Like showing more unreciprocated love for characters that are actually good (which Im sure happens a lot in real life) and having main characters not end up paired at the end of each movie, but they can still find happiness regardless.
I'm a girl, but growing up I always related to Schroder. The feeling of wanting to work on your art, but constantly pestered by someone wanting to "love" you.
16:53 I'm so glad that Johnny Bravo subverted the "I Dream of Jeannie" trope and had the genie imprison Johnny in the toaster because he kept trying to sexually harass.
Lol yeah. She actually has a personality other than generic pretty girl
Johnny Bravo is a weird case, because he bothers women a lot while also being disdainful of people who try to take advantage of women. There's an episode about a guy who talks about how he lies to women to get them to implicitly sleep with him, and Johnny tells the women he's dating to keep them from being taken advantage of.
@@TheAzulmagiadoesn't make him less predatory tho lol. Just because he has disdain for other men who harass women doesn't excuse his behaviour at all.
@@pussydestroyer69285 Oh, I wasn't saying it did. I was just commenting on how strangely he's handled.
@@TheAzulmagiayeah in The Sensitive Male episode
I don’t know which is worse, the manic pixie dream girl or the born sexy yesterday girl😂
The born yesterday one ... That one is insulting, they want a KID, a dumb easy to manipulate KID with great body
I mean they're frequently the same person.
@@KartarNighthawkThis exactly. They usually use the “childlike wonder” of the born sexy yesterday girl to fuel the manic pixie part. It’s super gross and weird.
Are there really THAT many dudes out there who fetishize naïvety that they can take advantage of?
@@jacksont9455 Sad reality of cute is new sexy.
@Nobodyinparticular000 Whoo boy. That's also it's can of worms.
you call this forced romance.. most people call this historical misogyny..
Couldn’t it be both
Two things can be true at once
"You're a VICTIM."
Whatever you tell yourself bud
@@Joeeyyyyy its both
18:40 I love that when Corbin tries to kiss the sleeping Lilu she pulls a gun to his head. She says "Never without my permission." It's a perfect illustration that sleeping women cannot consent. Corbin, in his poorly socialized male way, discovered that something he thought was cute, was actually assault.
Also depends on boundaries. I personally wouldn't mind a small kiss or peck but anything more when I'm asleep is a NO. While other women (and men) would be the opposite and not like it.
@@rainsnowfall220Let’s just also specify the VERY important detail that is:
A welcomed kiss in your sleep from your FAMILIAR ROMANTIC PARTNER, not some random stranger.
@@rainsnowfall220 Yes! And in the case of Corbin/Lilu they were total strangers.
I gave you the 69th like lmao.
That doesn't happen at the timestamp you put. Was this in the video or are you talking about something else?
Most people, especially young but not only, don't even know who they are, what they want and they don't have established values. They only know what society expects from them (usually based on their sex) and they think following it will make them happy. I see the majority of relationships as pointless in a world like this.
"Kids these days" is recorded as far back as Socrates
By young people I didn't mean kids but like people 18-35.
banger video. you really nailed it with this one; depictions of romances like these can be harmful to the way our brains develop. not only can they cause idealization of the people around us, but they can cause devaluation of ourselves when we can't be in or don't want to be in relationships. it's important to go out and experience life by yourself to fully identify what it is that you want in life. if you're depressed and demotivated and feeling unhappy with yourself, a partner will not fix you. especially because you're not broken in the first place. finding yourself is a natural part of growing up.
(very glad i found your channel, thanks youtube algorithm!)
I remember I got my period one night. I started vomiting, shitting my guts out and even wetting my pants from intense pain. It smelled awful. I almost fainted. I'm pretty sure this would shatter a guy's image of me. Women are always expected to be perfect beings that fix men. In short, I feel like my vomiting and intense pooping episode would convince a guy to breakup with me pretty fast
Have you checked that out? It sounds like you have some issue if that's happening
@@iexist1300no man, that’s just periods. I never vomit but I do faint.
@@iexist1300are u a man? 💀 Periods are painful,, some people just have it really bad
@@eden5243 I am a guy, but from what I've heard alot of actual medical problems are ignored because people act like it's just normal.
Things like vomiting and what's mentioned here sounds a bit more extreme than just being painful.
@@iexist1300Periods can be really bad but also completely tame. You can tell the difference because the symptoms are specific and contained. It could be perceived as rude to suggest that someone’s period anecdote is based on ignorance of their own body. Important reading note might be that the event in question is described as more singular than chronic.
Also, as a woman recently being a sexual/ideal fantasy of a man, then turned on me just because he used me, got bored of me etc and me being a hopeless romantic... The green haired anime refrence is helping my spirit heal.
So you didn't save sex till marriage, then got surprised when he didn't commit. Lol
Just keep sleeping with men until one stays. Good luck not waiting till marriage or at least a long time deep into the partnership.
@@christiantaylor1495 victim blaming isn't right bro, what about the one who keep pressing women to have sex with them and then keep telling them they will never meet someone who will marry them becauce they don't want to have sex before marriage? Do you know how manipulative some people can be to get what they want. How ignorant to comment such thing, how old are you?
based@@christiantaylor1495
@@christiantaylor1495 they never said they had sex. Look at how quickly you turned on this person
@@christiantaylor1495 Bruh, ya don't even know their story and you're bitching at them like this? You're not helping in the slightest, only being an asshole.
As an asexual aromantic person, I approve this message
Thanks for all the support! I'm glad to be joined with at least 40 other AroAces. Let us fight as one to take down forced romance!!
seconded by anouther ace/aro entity
Thirded by a fellow aroace being!!
Fourthed (?) by another aroace creature
And fifthed by another fellow aroace.
Sixthed! Love my fellow ace/aro peeps!!
I’ve also noticed men who like “fantasy” or subservient women tire of them fairly quickly. Which is not only painful for the women discarded, but borderline dangerous.
Yeahh!! bcz ultimately a human cannot function on fantasies neither can they properly belong witha person who isnt their equal. And the concept simply starts to crack.
Man made laws can only go so far, natural laws prevail.
they truly do only like the ‘chase’ of getting them, not the actual women themselves
Judging roughly 3. 5 billion people (minus how many of them are kids) by........ anecdotes? is completely ridiculous.
@@thotslayer6946 they’re not talking about ALL men here, only about a specific group of men that enjoy fantasizing about these kinds of women and how they usually grow bored of them and discard them like dolls
@@N30-LUCIF3R They're talking about all men that prefer a certain type of woman. Quite the unjustified broad stroke, don't you think?
How is her statement any better than "Girls love bad boys until they ditch them during pregnancy."
oyasumi punpun is such an incredible work of art. i read it a few years back and felt nothing but crippling loneliness and emptiness after reading it. loved this video!!
Weakness
What I’ve never been able to understand, in both media and life in general, is why it seems like a man and a woman can’t just be friends and have to be together. It never applies to two men or two women. One of the greater examples I’ve seen of this in my life was when two of my past teachers (male and female) were close. Almost everyone I spoke to straight off the bat thought they were a couple. When the female teacher announced she had a partner and they were getting married, people were actually mad that she and the male teacher weren’t dating. Ridiculous.
Romantic relationships are quite adjacent to the construct of marriage, which is a societal control device. The whole culture around it is shaped to nudge people into conformity. Those absorbed in it tend to view non-compliance as an invitation to nudge harder, converting any frustration they experience whilst doing so into irritation, outright bewilderment or even hostility.
I always thought my contempt for a lot of anime, even when I was a preteen weeb, was because I’m a girl. Like “of course I don’t like these problematic trope, I’m a girl and this is for dudes.” So hearing you talk about it really caught me off guard. I haven’t heard many men speak negatively on anime’s problematic tropes, especially eechi harems, is so refreshing.
Right?! Honestly I was just amazed by this man's empathy the whole video.
"ItS jUSt FaNTasY! DoN'T tAkE iT sO SerIoSlY!!" - The usual justification we get
@@mittenista 🤢 Especially in regards to those 100+ year old lolis. It’s so gross.
As a girl who loves anime (not the ecchi ones ofc) it's very saddening how poorly represented women are in anime!
But that mostly happens in shounen, seinin and male audience targeted animes. There are plenty of good female leads and romances in shoujo and OF COURSE STUDIO GHIBLI ❤
@@junainahrahman4156 Sadly, I see less and less shoujo these days. It's mostly harem or harem adjacent. Even genres that were once primarily targeted towards girls, like mahou shoujo, are getting ecchi-fied :(
“The anti-reptilian racism is wild in the Bible, man, idk what to tell u”
😅😂😂
Can I just say, I’m really tired of the “love at first sight” trope.
It feels so shallow to me.
You ‘aint loving that person mate. You are infatuated. Love is about building a connection, pretty much a really strong friendship with feelings of romantic attraction and affection on top of it.
Case in point, despite what crappy media might make you believe, 2 in 3 couples are born from a friendship, with an average span of 2 years before evolving into a romantic relationship, some of wich even spanning for more than a decade before blooming into love. And guess what? They are the HEALTHIEST ONES as well. There’s more than one study backing this up.
That’s how me and my boyfriend got togheter. And as a demisexual is also the only way i can feel attraction even. So I feel even more strongly about this.
I need more slow burns thank you very much 🙏❤️
not tryna start anything, buuuut demisexuality just sounds like someone WAITING to give it up until there's a bond and actual commitment. I just don't see how that categorizes as it's own sexual identity. you CAN become SEXUALLY attracted to someone just by looking at them, but not wanting to actually do it until you know 'em is what I'm hearing. (which is good, btw) you got some damn sense, IMO.
The whole "love at first sight" is only physical attraction, cuz their looks are the only info you get in that moment. literally impossible to fall in love with someone you don't know.
@@B0BBYJ4CK hi! Sorry if i made a bit of a long text, i hope this clarifies some stuff : )
First of all, I absolutely agree that “love at first sight” isn’t love, and that applies to everyone, since the only information you have of that person is litherally just their appearance.
I’m well aware that you Don’t have to be Demisexual to wait until you know someone well, I 100% still would do the same if even if I wasn’t, because like you said, is just good sense really.
(Heck, as I mentioned, 2 in 3 people choose to do this, and most of them aren’t demisexual.)
“Fully sexual” people can either feel primary sexual attraction from the get go, or secondary attraction after a bond has been created and romantic feelings blossomed like a Demisexual would. They have both options.
The main difference is that for me, as a Demisexual, i’m litherally unable to feel said primary attraction to people I don’t know.
unless there’s someone I’m really close with, I’m basically Ace.
I can only experience that secondary attraction i mentioned.
Even when they are super “hot”. I can appreciate their appearance visually as an artist, platonically, but i never got any desire unless we were VERY close.
So that’s different from feeling sexual attraction from the get go but choosing to wait, get what I mean?
I hope this clarifies stuff : )
Yes and no. In my case I’ve never dated any of my guy friends. Either I was not attracted to them sexually or our life style/ personalities would horribly clash in a romantic context. All of those guy ‘friends’ dropped me when they realized I didn’t want more. So they were playing the ‘friend’ angle to get close to me in hopes of sex or a relationship. Most got pissed and their true colors came out. It was quite hurtful and shocking. So I don’t usually have close male friends anymore.
@@LT-et5rr they say the older you get, the harder it is to have close friendships with the opposite sex. I feel like you CAN have platonic friendship with the OS only if you're not attracted to 'em.
I'm kinda in the same boat. I don't think I'd waste my time being 'friends' with a dude that I'm interested in and he's not into me. Chances are, I'm gonna be looking for a shot...if there is one 😂
I can conferm that friendship can lead to romance. my parents knew each other since elementary school and are still married
I'm not that familiar with Peanuts, but as an ace person, I resonated with Schroeder quicker than _any_ explicitly asexual character 😂. Heck, this whole video gives aro/ace vibes & I love it. Great essay.
Hell yeah dude, I'm regrettably very allosexual but the part of me that never wanted to be that way identified with Schroeder immediately, he's still one of my favorite characters in all of media
May I add that folks need to stop believing the lie that there’s someone for everyone
Yep, as a woman with a physical disability from birth, I think people need to get comfortable with the idea of being alone and building a fulfilling life outside of a romantic relationship. I've had to because legally if you marry or even live with a partner you lose the income you need to survive. Aside from that, I've learned that many people who are able-bodied don't want a romantic partner who happens to be disabled.
@@happyascheese Yep. Cause they see disabled people as "unnormal", "sick", and "a burden". Ableism is still very popular in many countries.
I don't think the problem is being a romantic. I think it's that people expect love to be effortless as long as you're with the right person. But true love is a group of choices rather than a feeling. Half the act of falling in love is the willingness to fall in love. If you look at it through that lense, there is someone for everyone.
@@peachesandcream22 Well now hold on, they are objectively not normal, maybe not 'sick' but still a burden. And being a burden isn't a bad thing, it's just a thing we all have to deal with, as we are all a burden on each other and that's part of being in a healthy relationship. You're acting as if having a preference for people who aren't disabled is some kind of 'ism', when in reality, there are people who do fall in love with disabled people despite their burdens, and not finding them desirable isn't prejudice or nefarious, sometimes the thought just never occurs to them that they would even fall for someone who's disabled in some way.
Yup. Lots of people are not interested in relationships at all. And on top of that, it’s literally statistically impossible for everyone to find a match anyway because there’s a disproportionate number of men, women and people in general that would be compatible.
this was an amazing video essay, its always so eye-opening to hear how misogynistic ideals have affected men and you illustrate/verbalise your points so well!
IT'S TWO PEOPLE IN LOVE WITH EACH OTHER AND TRYING TO FIND WAYS TO UNDERSTAND AND SHOW IT. If you don't like it don't watch it
@lephinor2458
Okay, but for often than not it's shown it very toxic ways.
Also this toxic romance stuff has absolutely saturated all forms of media, so there's not many places to NOT see this.
@@JDReC100 All of these are stories the romance shouldn't be ultra realistic and fit the norms of today's world.
@lephinor2458
Attention everyone this person is clearly biased and is in multiple comments being defensive and arguing in bad faith. Don't waste your time on this troll. This is a repeat message because I value people time. Continue to call out patriachy bullshit ✊
@@asterya6913 someone can be biased and still have a point. for example, I can call you out for having a bias for the side this essay takes, does that make your opinion invalid? And about arguing in bad faith, isn't it natural for someone who is in the 'devils advocate' to take strong anti positions to the points made in the essay? Nothing about what he has done is 'bad faith argumentation', which is actually when you hold a pretense for arguing for something you believe when in actuality you hold no true feelings on the matter at all. And also being in multiple comment threads has nothing to do with the credibility of his points. That just shows that they are engaged with the video.
When you brought up Urusei Yatsura I literally shrieked! It’s one of my favorite anime/manga ever, it’s absolutely wonderful!
Urusei Yatsura is so wonderful not just because of the nuance you bring up, but because I think Lum is *far* from the perfect girl. I mean she’s great, don’t get me wrong- but part of what makes her such a fun character how her charm mixes so well with her flaws! She’s incredibly short tempered and insistent on things going her way, often to obsessive degrees. Of course she has every right to be angry at Ataru for leering at other girls… but she’s also incredibly stubborn. I mean the girl is a princess after all, she is used to things going her way. The anime doesn’t really showcase this as much, but the manga gradually showcases more of Lum not just caring about Ataru, but other humans as well (there’s an episode/chapter that’s all about Lum training to fight against some girl’s bullies without her electric powers, iirc).
Ataru is also incredibly nuanced, especially in the manga. Yes, we are supposed to be angry at his skirt-chasing tendencies and general jerky attitude… but we also kinda see that more than anything, he’s incredibly lonely. He has bad luck, his parents have always kinda been crappy towards him… it’s very easy to analyze that Ataru’s desperation for girlfriends is out of this “quantity over quality” because if he disappoints one girl (as he seems to disappoint everyone)… he can just move onto the next one. Lum, to him, is the embodiment of genuine love and commitment- which is incredibly scary to him. Over the course of the manga, he becomes less and less of a skirt-chaser, realizing he genuinely loves Lum and wants to spend his life with her. We also see the more positive sides of him, such as helping random aliens (even if it’s to get them out of his hair sometimes), and a ghost girl pass on.
Tldr, UY is so good not just because of how it deconstructed the harem anime trope before it even started, but because the two leads aren’t just your ideal tropes- they’re actual characters with a lot of layers and complexity if you dig a little deeper.
I'm glad someone pointed this out. Also, it's not like he wanted to be with her in the first place. It was through a misunderstanding that he was stuck with her and he had to deal with her possessiveness.
@@randyjake6226 Admittedly yeah- I think there were times that Ataru did actually sit Lum down and explain it was a misunderstanding- but she’s a stubborn girl.
Honestly part of me wonders Lum used Ataru to a degree to like- stay on Earth?? To learn more about it or something? There’s also the aspect where she just threw herself into the new relationship (maybe to get out of her old one with Rei???). Maybe she’s even using the ideal of a housewife to get away from royal responsibilities??
The interesting thing is that as UY started, Lum’s base character (her values and motivations) were… inconsistent and shallow. We never really get why she was so insistent on Ataru being her “darling,” especially with how much we see him being a lil shit.
You’re so right it’s so freaking amazing
I like Urusei Yatsura, because there characters are not what they seem to be at the 1st glance.
Lum is "perfect girl", who is actually a spoiled princess brat with short temper.
Ataru is a skirt-chaser, but he actually has a heart of gold he tries to hide.
Ataru's female friend is a typical "girl next door", but she's actually smart and very strict.
That black-hair guy is an elegant gentleman, but he's actually as same skirt-chaser, as Ataru, but more mannered to hide it.
Lum's uncle looks like a cute baby, but he's actually an adult who likes to torture Ataru and gets away with nothing cause of his baby appearance.
Etc.
@@peachesandcream22 Hold on do you mean Ten?! Ten is legit Lum’s baby cousin- idk where you got the idea he’s an adult
As a feminist but romantic at heart. This was such a beautiful video essay on some of the on it observations of the human condition. You also added to my Playlist or Wikipedia down the rabbit hole addition of movies and pop culture references. Thank you
Feminists will never really have romance in real life.
@@sonatestd2085 Genuinely bizarre statement.
@@megamillion5852 I must add that lesbian relationships might be possible, but you won't have any real relationships with men.
@@sonatestd2085Why because you said it. If someone have romance in their it has everything to do with two indivudual who fall it not one Patrachical man can control. Patrachical man never find love
@@learningisliving1161 irrespective of the man being patriarchal or egalitarian feminists won't find any connection with mentally stable men.
It really is a rarity to have friendships just stay that way. It can be so much fun exploring deep friendships between a boy and a girl, 9/10 it'll be written better than most forced romance out there if the mentallity on romance doen't change.
Heck, even same sex friendships are tainted by fanbases desperate for gay representation that they end up shipping them, even if they clearly show no romantic interest in each other (they could still be gay, but not with each other) or clearly one/both of them is/are hetero.
There's times I also am guilty of this, but only when I see something in the characters (and if I love both characters individually and with each other).
This is the type of stuff that we all need to learn. As a female, I had to learn this and I personally wouldnt want somone to be as enchanted with me as well. I want a friend that I can love not an attatched arm. Ive seen many people hurt by romcoms. We have to learn the differences between whats allowed in fiction and real life. Real life isnt a fantasy no latter what we do and thats ok, we just have to make the best of it.
About the Adam and eve thing. In the original translation it says: "God took Adam's other half to make him less lonely." As if taking a part of you you'll naturally be attracted to cause you deeply seek reunion with your other self. Adam and eve were so to speak 2 halves of one whole. And so I hate the translation cause Eve's signifigance was reducted down to a bone rather than the entire half of Adam himself. But then again that bible adaptation was written to reduce women any way it could so no wonder. There's many more aspects of wrong translations there mind you. It's very interesting.
There are actually two creation myths wrapped into one in Genesis. One where God makes man and woman in his image at the same time. And the second myth in which Eve is created from Adam‘s rib as a counterpart for him specifically. This has always fascinated me and is probably due to there being several sources that inspired Genesis.
@@FrozenAfricaPrincess That's the story of Lilith, Adam's first wife.
Oh yeah. And *ezer-kenegdo* (translated “helpmeet”) doesn’t mean servant; it’s difficult to translate the idea but it really boils down to “character foil and battle buddy all rolled into one.”
Moreover the tone in the Hebrew strongly insinuates that Adam was right there listening in when the serpent tempter Eve - like he was waiting to see what she would do. And then when caught, Adam not only blamed Eve for giving him the fruit: but blamed God did giving him Eve.
That being said, the traditional way the narrative has been presented to generations is what sets the tone for the stories to follow, as he said.
The bible as a whole is VERY problematic, so I personally don't value it whatsoever
@@zillvaThen you don't value Western Civilization whatsoever.
A common misconception people have about the bible is that it only blames eve and is therefore sexist but if you actually read it Adam is JUST as MUCH to blame as Eve for eating the apple during the whole thing when the snake was tempting Eve, Adam was just chilling there. People just suck at reading they just gloss over this part and only blame the woman when Adam was just there not doing anything, when he should've. They were both equally to blame.
Reference (Part of Genesis 3:6 she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.)
@@AmoebaInk Does this means that nobody can escape shipping?
@@Phantom86dabsolutely noone and nothing
Plus (I don't remember where, I'm not good with addresses, please don't hate me) where it says we inherit our brokenness from our fathers, and that's why Jesus was perfect because He didn't have a human father (obviously He was also perfect because He's literally God, but he's God and also human, but not a demigod because He's 100% both and it gets really difficult to explain and understand and I'm not entirely sure that I understand it completely myself)
Basically what I'm saying is that Adam and Eve were both at fault but if Adam hadn't sinned (which it also says somewhere was inevitable anyway but we're speaking in theory here) we would all be fine
Let's be honest, a lot of core Christian canon has nothing to do with the bible and comes from a dude 500 years later
@@crazydragy4233 If you're talking about Plato, and his ideas of the spiritual realm which influenced Dante Alighieri's writings (Inferno, Purgatorio, Paradisio, and the Divine Comedy), which then went on to fundamentally influence how people think about what the Bible says regarding what heaven, hell, angels, and demons are, then you are correct. If you're talking about anything else, I wouldn't say something like that lightly without saying which "dude" taught about that, why it's different from what the Bible actually says, and so on.
This is why I think the ideas of "leading someone on" or "being friendzoned" are bullshit. Women are allowed to be nice to you without being attracted to you, and being friends with a woman isn't a downgrade/loss.
This. Friendzone is such a stupid concept, like the girl just *have* to be with a guy because he likes her? Total bullshit.
@@henriqueabreu9706 Friendzoned is not saying the woman HAS to be with the guy. it means the woman isn't interested in a romantic relationship SO she wants them to stay friends. hence the name...
women get friendzoned too. hello??
Oh, the "friendzone" exists. It's just a boundary you need to respect. Bitching about it constantly is what makes you a "nice guy" and an entitled asshole
Being friends is not a downgrade, its just not what he or she wanted. if it can't go on, it's better to end it
FR. Being friends is NOT a downgrade. If you truly like someone, you'd enjoy their company and hanging out with them even if it's not romantic.
Friendship is such a beautiful thing, regardless of gender. I am genuinely convinced that people who see friendship as a downgrade are just salty that the person they're pursuing don't want to have sex with them. Which is most likely the very thing they were after all along.
I see a lot of young men these days talking about how men can "love" a woman so long as she's nice enough and attractive enough like it's something virtuous. "Men are simple, just don't be a bitch, that's it. We aren't complicated like women." That's not love... thats not a relationship. That's just wanting a female shaped cutout to take up the female shaped space you created in your life.
You got to think they jack themselves up to this predicament because sex is covering their true sight. A human being whos perishable is no different to you.
"you created"
lol. As though the desire to have a sexual/romantic partner is some concocted and invented desire on the part of those who have it instead of just a fundamental aspect of mammalian biology.
I think that's a pretty broad and one-sided interpretation of what the sentiment can entail. "Men are simple, just don't be a b****" sounds to me like it comes from guys who want straightforward interactions and a mature woman capable of communicating her wants and needs. There are so many guys who've been in emotionally abusive relationships and, if they don't end up indicting all women because of their shitty ex, they're going to look for women who actually respect them.
"We're not complicated like women" sounds sexist on the surface, and in many instances it definitely is. But if you look at male sexuality vs. female sexuality, male sexuality is much more an ooga-booga phenomenon than female sexuality. It's true that on dating apps women rate men more harshly on looks than men rate women, but that's not how women prioritize looks. A girl will pick an average-looking guy with rizz over the quiet chad, because there's nothing beneath that chad's rippling muscles. Women also tend to be a lot more discerning about potential partners than guys because
1. Guys are way stronger than her, and if she picks a bad dude, he can easily hurt her.
2. Women have a lot more options than men and can afford to choose because men come to them. Men in the overwhelming majority of cases have to approach women. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been hit on by a girl in my adult life.
Us guys can be dumb, and a girl can hit on us and we'll never notice until days, months, and even years afterwards. Saying men aren't complicated, and female sexuality is more complicated has truth to it.
@Leitis_Fella problem is the guys I see saying things like "men are simple" are NOT going after mature women, straight forward women, or even women that respect them.
Maturity, honesty, good communication, mutual respect, non toxic behavior are all wonderful things to look for in a partner and I'd encourage any guy to put those at the top of his list. "Female and nice enough" are not those things. That's the problem. Guys set their standards way too low and somehow think they set them high?
That's a fair point. I think on the extreme end of things, a lot of this toxic behavior is observed in both men and in women. Some things, of course, are more common for one sex than the other. However, that's a conversation for another day. I also find the gender war bs that gender-relations tend to fall into extremely unproductive, so thanks for being civil :/
When I try to understand the mentality you're describing, I can't help but feel sorry for those guys even under the layer of insufferable behavior. People are born as blank slates and are shaped by their environment. Ultimately, it comes from the innate desire to be loved, but their problem is they have a bad perception of love. I don't think films that the video describe really shape people, but the ideas and themes are absolutely a reflection of cultural trends and zeitgeists.
Six years ago, I kind of had the opposite problem to the guys you're describing, lol. I actively set out to find a high-value person, found a mature and sweet girl who had everything I was looking for, (or so it seemed). I got caught in a cycle of limerance and projected what I wanted her to be onto her, instead of seeing her as she was. I drove her away. It took over a year of self-reflection to realize my mental process was that in searching for a high-value girl, I found that framing someone with unrealistic expectations leads to heartbreak.
The biggest harm all these narratives create is making people believe in a perfect love. People have this idea that a relationship doesnt or shouldnt take effort, and that any annoyace means they arent "meant" to be together.
Bro made good points . There is also the thing about anime I find uncomfortable . It's where they portray girls exposed naked accidentally as cute and the male got slapped for it when he accidentally saw it . And sometimes they show the males like it even if he got slapped for it. WTF is wrong with that trope. As a man , I feel so uncomfortable and I believe it'd be the same for girls too .
PLEASE do a Boy Meets World retrospective! This show's contradicting heteronormativity has my brain cells in a chokehold.
Yeah, and the creators treated the black actress down bad, only because she was black.
As a woman, I see every man and rate them as how good of a partner they would be without thinking about it. I feel good when I see people look at me, especially men. I have also been conditioned by society to be defined by my relationship with men, so I’ve found value in this video. I’m trying to be more neutral when it comes to men, and see them as people with flaws who might be my friend before my partner. Societal pressure exists for EVERYONE!
You see, its not a good thing to do to rate people
The nice guy trope does so much harm for the young males because they think that if they did that they'll win the "hot" girl
Wrong, the trope doesn’t do anything. It’s women themselves that promote this in real life and tell men to just be nice.
@@ExpertContrarianlol, you still should be nice, not just to women but to everyone, and not to get something in return but because of high morals. If you don’t have high morals you’re just a bad person. Being nice doesn’t grant you anything, but being bad you can get punished one day
I loved it. The Adam eve analysis was so good!
Ikr. I'm currently agnostic, and idk if I'll ever stop unraveling the harmful social repercussions of Adam & Eve's fable to this day.
@@spaghetto9836 not to nitpick unnecessarily, but since you've expressed that you're at least passively studying it, you should know that it's a myth, not a fable. People think myth automatically means untrue, but that's not literarily the case, only proverbially. I only bring it up because, when judging the validity and claims of a writing, it's important to understand the genre so as to understand what it's actually saying (for instance, when people say "all you need is love," they're making a poetic and philosophical statement rather than a literal one, and because we understand that, we can then judge what we think it means and whether we believe it). I'm not sure what kind of agnostic you are, so I hope I wasn't being too annoying just then, I just thought it was important, since if the story was a fable, that would imply a lesson or moral, which obviously is neither stated explicitly nor implicitly (and also everyone in the story would be an animal)
As a woman, while I'm working, if my boyfriend refuses to do chores while i provide for him, I'm going to be p*ssed. It doesn't matter your gender, you shouldn't take a free ride on your partner that's working. Pull your weight.
First of all: please, for the love of GOD give into that little part of yourself that wants to make a Boy Meets World retrospective 🙏🙏🙏
Second of all: wow, between this and the Barbie video you have quickly become one of my favorite video essayists. I'm super excited for what you have to say next 💖
22:55 I mean i love that meme but I’m an artist so character design is just fun to me and I like seeing how you can take the same exact object give it to 5 artists and then be given 20 different character designs
It's generally more refreshing when they aren't all petite girls with giant titties, but I guess you take what you can get.
This video is so important, and so actually CRIMINALLY underrated. I feel like this will be so important to so many men who feel like they’ve been lied to by nearly all of hetero romance media in existence when they realize pursuing romantic relationships with women in real life isn’t anything like movies or tv at all. Our perception of romance between men and women has been warped for so long and the forced heterosexual romance partner is easily the biggest perpetrator in all of this. I feel like anyone who has involved themselves in the tiniest bit of feminist and queer theory would know how frustrating it is to try to constantly bring this up as an issue to anyone just to feel like their screaming into a void. So sincerely, thank you for discussing this.
OH MY GOD TWO CHARACTERS IN LOVE SO HORRIFYING.
@lephinor2458
Attention everyone this person is clearly biased and is in multiple comments being defensive and arguing in bad faith. Don't waste your time on this troll. This is a repeat message because I value people time. Continue to call out patriachy bullshit ✊
Basically the media is playing both sides. They setup the hopeless romantic boy, he either wins or loses his advances where it comes to those he fancies. The girl is taught to see everything as a threat as well search for "The One". So they will always clash negatively when really both want life experience and to simply be able to be "normal" with somebody.
Romcoms REALLY and I mean REALLY fucked things up.
@@lephinor2458🥺boohoo
@@asterya6913please stop, he is free to make comment
I like how you put a disclaimer on “Anime”. I agree with you universally no one can hate Anime as much as an Anime watcher.
The myth of creation falls on this mysoginist turn but the actual Hebrew texts don't make Eve out to be a servant or something from Adam. She was made to be an equal, made from scratch just like Adam. But when it was translated, of course it was distorted into what we know now.
I wanted Shawn and Angela to end up together so much. I get that it's more realistic that two people wbo were so good together can't work it out due to life getting in the way...the great "What If" person.
But I was so much more invested in Shawn and Angela than any other couple/relationship by the end of the show
Remember the episode where Shawn finds a purse and decides that the purse's owner must be his soulmate?
As a fellow PunPun fan. I’m so glad people are analyzing this series. I read this manga and felt existential for like a week.
(I know you didn't cover these characters in depth and I'm just nitpicking what amounts to a 3second screen grab but I'm gonna say this anyway) Clementine from Eternal Sunshine and Summer from 500 Days of Summer don't fall into the 'manic pixie dream girl' trope for me. It would seem that they do, given how the men in their lives treat them, but the overarching narrative doesn't justify those mens' perspectives. Clementine even gives a little speech basically laying out to Joel "hey, I'm not some magical being that's going to fix your life for you, I'm just trying to get by like anyone else." Whatshisface from 500 days has to go through this whole process of de-romanticizing Summer in his mind to treat her like a person and let her go.
Found this channel today, the algorithm is algorithming well for once. Loved the video
i completely agree about anime having unsettling and problematic tropes. never heard anyone else bring up these issues
Their are some that are unsettling or problematic but the one he was talking about with the romance doesn’t matter it’s exaggerated and hopefully people have enough common sense to not think that a cartoon portray’s how actual people would act
This is why I appreciate School Days's ending as I grow older.
@@Skye2993 from experience, they do not have this common sense. i dated one of these loser weeb guys. it was BAD.
@@katierobbins1961 I can’t really blame the Anime, I blame the individual that apparently couldn’t differentiate cartoons are cartoons and aren’t real or portray real life, I’m not going to stick a bomb in my mouth and think I’ll be fine like the Looney Tunes, that’s just idiotic thinking, he definitely knew better and chose to behave like a jackas* these are people that’s choosing to act like they do,
Trust me not every weeb or Anime watcher behaves like that ma’am or sir I watch Anime but I know for a fact that it’s cartoons and it’s purely for entertainment and fun not to act out in real life like some looney bin.
@@katierobbins1961I've read a post once of a girlfriend who has a weeb bf. He literally thought anime hentai tropes were a real thing that real women do. It's sad.
THIS VIDEO IS SO GOOD!
I love urusei yatsura and DESPISE its contemporaries. In urusei yatsura, the stories in each manga chapter feel very unserious at heart. The characters are all so absurd and play off each other in a way where, even though they're all horrible people, you don't get a bad taste in your mouth about it. Their social power feels evenly distributed: Ataru is a sleazy perv, but he's always punished for it in the story! Lum is possessive and violent, but in such an absurd way that it can't be taken seriously!
This is what modern harem anime fails at. The characters social power is very skewed towards the male lead. Their pervy actions aren't punished at all and all the women in the story flock to him. Yuck!
Le femme dans les harems sont presque aussi peu des récompense que lum et les hommes beaucoup moins dominateurs que Atari qui est le personnage le plus dominé de cette histoire.
@@theoriesdelordre3515 I'm sorry my guy, I have no idea what you just said. Niinku kirjaimellisesti ei hajuakaan. :-DD
I mean lum is a curse and ataru a victim.
@@theoriesdelordre3515 I guess! They're both delightfully terrible people
Thank you, bless you! Its very nice to be reminded that I'm not the only person who feels this way real life v. fictional romance. I love romance but I've often seen what is usually portrayed in media (and thereupon acted out in real life) as "romance" as uncannily unromantic. I've always enjoyed Hayao Miyazaki's portrayals of relationships and romance because they can often just as easily be read as friendships. The Take does a really nice video on this specifically. Thanks again :)
omg i loved this video so much!! you deserve way more recognition
I haven´t realized how much I internalized this notion that I should be the perfect girl to fix the broken boy and damn...I've put myself in so much stress because of this.
It's making me think about my relationship with relationships too. Like in anime and media, love is always felt and felt strongly, but I'm demisexual which means I sometimes don't feel that attraction. So whenever that happens, I'm like 'is there something wrong with me?'
And just... listening to my gut in general when it comes to dating men, bc I have people pleasing tendencies.
@@lorettabes4553 im glad you are taking care of youself and listening to your intuition, im trying to do that too. amatonormativity is hard on everyone but is even worse for those of us who are on the aro and/or ace spectrum.
Agreed! Having been born in the early 2000's, even though I wasn't thinking about how to get guys to like me I'd still worry and fret about being the "perfect female specimen" because that's where I got my self-worth
Really good analysis. Amatonormativity really harms us all.
This video is great, thank you for making it! The more I see people recognizing and calling this stuff out, the more hopeful it makes me. Daniel Sloss's comedy special "Jigsaw" goes into it, and CZcamsr Tara Mooknee has a great video called "Amatonormativity" (the academic word for it) on her channel, too.
Not many people give Shrek 2 credit for giving a more realistic portrayal of relationships and the struggles that come with it
I definitely acknowledge my privilege as a cis gay male because it’s always kind of been a given to me that I wouldn’t have a normal life, I’d never be expected to raise children nor have the “perfect family” with the wife and 2.5 kids and a cute dog, etc. And as a chronically single person by choice, I’ve also never wanted to define myself by my relationship status or who I’m in a relationship with. So it’s just surprising to me that there are men out there who need to be told that they don’t need a girlfriend/wife to be happy. They don’t need to support a woman to be happy. They can have a wholesome life entirely on their own, and it doesn’t need to come at the cost of women at all.
you know what? you are so fuckin' right. you NEVER hear any gay guys talkin' about this stuff. it's always us heteros beatin' each other over the head about "the perfect lifestyle". dude, if you want a family, cool. If ya don't, cool!
everyone is not meant to live the exact same life!!!
There aren't any men out there who need to be told this. This is just some theoretical nonsense that has no bases in reality. Don't believe every thing you see in movies or in youtube videos.
@@treeforged9097yes, there are. Do you have any sources for that argument, or are you just basing that off of an opinion you decided you needed to have because the video itself felt like an attack?
In media, and in real life, I see men who are so hellbent on getting a girlfriend, or their families bringing up how they need a wife. Even the edgy and immature guys who say "girls icky" with big words center their whole lives around women, just in a different way.
And I hate that for them. As someone raised a girl, and had my parents joke about me having boyfriends from young to now, it was annoying. Especially when all I really cared about was my hyperfixation for that month and schoolwork. And though it's not often, women are more likely to be told their lives don't need to involve a man. I can only imagine how it feels to be a guy, constantly under the pressure of not even finding love at this rate but a ""mate"", and becoming increasingly depressed over it. Romantic love isn't and shouldn't be a requirement. Men aren't "sexual creatures" any more than anyone else. Men don't need women to be whole or happy, same for women. But apparently that's a controversial statement. See for yourself, comment that somewhere or maybe in real life, and watch the response you'll get.
As a woman dating another woman, i’ve heard of other bi women who ends up choose to just not date men because of how often men are immature and puts their while selfworth onto them. While i dont plan on ever leaving my sweetheart i certainly would not exclude them from my dating pool. Still, seems like more work than a homosexual relationship.
You still can 100% get a cute dog tho, it's not that bad of a life choice.
As an aromantic person I feel very validated by this, because any time I bring up how forced a lot of (fictional) relationships are, I usually get scoffed at, because I wouldn't understand. As if I never had any human interactions or cared about anybody in some way ever before.
You just proved that you don't get it, though. Romantic attraction is not just "REALLY liking someone". It can be borne from a friendship, but it's not the same as friendship. Not feeling romantic attraction isn't a personal failing, but just maybe it disqualifies you from being the absolute authority on it.
@@Snowie7826 And you just proved you don't get my comment. Please point me to where I said I was an absolute authority on romantic attraction? It's completely irrelevant what kind of attraction someone is having, if the underlying dynamics and conduct with each other are shite, the relationship is bad. Simple. That you want to exempt romantic relationships from that bare minimum of decency is damn toxic.
@@rainyhaze2053Lmao, proving my point again. I'm not making excuses for shitty behaviour. I'm saying if you're incapable of experiencing romantic attraction, you cannot properly understand it and therefore shouldn't be telling people how to write it.
@@Snowie7826 You did notice the video literally also makes my point, right? Cute trolling, buddy. Byeeee 💖
@@Snowie7826 Oh, yes, the wonder of wanting to copulate with that person based on sexual attraction adds that bit of complexity to the unconscious desire of wanting to have offspring. There is no great science, romance, couples, sex, even if unconsciously serve the will of nature although that is intended for it does not mean that it can't be used for the personal benefit of individuals. For example, there are people who have abortions but have sex...couples who never have children or asexuals who consider themselves to be in romantic relationship or desire them.
What makes you see it more complex is the perception of allosexuals with interests in being in a romantic relationship. Because that in itself is not what ironically makes a good partner-relationship, you said it yourself, it is friendship. Nothing ensures passion and perpetual sexual desire, in the end what remains in "good" couple relationships is the commitment, the friendship and the moments more than what the romance itself is, the passionate thing.
Is there your great complexity? You and most people are the ones hit by those hormones in the brain, not aro/ace people. And yet you give yourself the authority to say that we simply don't understand the complexity of it.
This is so true. Through my whole life I’ve never had a ‘crush’ or relationship and people don’t hit on me because I make it clear I’m not after that. I don’t understand the obsession with needing a partner to be happy, I have my best friends, who I love as my friends, and I don’t feel the need to have a partner to feel fulfilled. Furthering that I don’t know why people say ‘just’ friends when friendships can be so close and genuine. You expect nothing and you give and get respect and home and trust and good times. It’s my favourite kind of human connection.
you know it hurts when you're someone like Sachi in real life and it's so weird when you indirectly copying all the tropes she's been through 36:30
Oyasumi Punpun is a manga that i hold very closely to my heart, and it was one of the mangas that finally made this whole fantasy of coming of age crack for me. Punpun's love was never love, it was limerence, obsession and projected fears and insecurity.
Not romance fiction but a thriller novel that driven a similar point home to me (even to me as a girl -- we also get conditioned by those narratives to an extent, I guess) was "Out" by Kirino. It actually says on her Wiki page that she was at one point approached by a youngish male reader who said something along the lines of "I had no idea middle aged women have lives". Aaanyway, in the book, there are two plot lines, one led by a female character, a woman trying to get by, albeit in grim ways (it is a thriller after all), and the other by a male one, a yakuza-loner-sigma(?) guy. And in the course of the book he gets obsessed with the idea of her being THE woman of his (very sick) fantasies, he sees it as fate, so he hunts her down. And so at the end, when it comes to the clash between them, we have a chapter from his perspective, where he is fairly ecstatic, and then a chapter from hers, where she is fighting for her life with a strange and scary man. The rawness of her chapter made me think how the whole "fate" thing, in the sense that "this is meant to happen", which implies "you can't (shouldn't, don't even dare) fight it", it's also a male fantasy in a way, a male constructed type of narrative to justify their obsession. And maaaan that hurts people indeed.
Ive only read the title and liked immediately, awesome video!!!
Thank you for this beautiful, well researched and argumented video essay. It was a pleasure watching it.
That last line from you was one of the most unexpected and hilarious lines I've ever seen on a CZcams video. Absolutely brilliant, you've earned a follow.
I clicked when i saw Akane in the thumbnail. Always thought she and Ranma were forced together a bit. Still love the show though!❤️
10:24 tbf, at this time, it was expected to “work through” any problems. Even something as severe as attempted murder. Because…. Divorce wasn’t legal! So yeah, the way out was killing your partner. . Till your death do us part.
So seeing them work through this is “natural” when the alternative is… yeah
Romance can be such a toxic genre to tackle, but its also one of the best ones. I often wish that the female and male parings didnt end up togetehr purely foe how awful the characters created can be but in analysis of so many stories it can be a benifit to disect. Unfortunately more often than not people dont look to understand characters deeper than they would otherwise. I feel its somehow connected to the idea that tomance is for women yet the ideas are kind of made to push that women need to be a way. And if it has male attention its also that women need to be a certain way and approached a certain way to guarantee their affection and attention such as buying them things and posturing ect. Still theres a big piece missing in romance genre and thats the woman who isnt conventionally attractive. You have girls with odd personalities and charcters but rarely any that are older and loved, "ugly" and loved, sick and loved if so its unrealistic or included its a joke. Never treated in the same was as the "nice guy" who somehow wins in the end. The irredeemable momster who still miraclously ends up with someone, basic dudes with no personality who get heaps of women. I fogot the otmriginal thoit so i just ranted but also i dont wanna type. Romance is such an interesting genre and like barbie the boy and girl dont have to end up togther. They can exist as individuals no matter how "perfect" they would be together. Summary romance is dumb not in the way of idiotic but fucking crazy. Its ridiculous the pressure for it from birth. Either youre loved by a partner or you're useless and unlovable because thats what the story says. It hurts men and women.
I really like the idea of the concept pf someone and falling in love eutg that because thats what a crush is. Its so interesting
“If it’s important to you then it’s beautiful” is such a beautiful beautiful line
Another thing is how it is also very heteronormative, and expects that everyone is (or should be) straight. As a queer person, the whole “forced romances” in stories always gave me anxiety. When I was a kid, I was so anxious about being with someone of the opposite gender, because that was the only option in my mind. This was all perpetrated by the forced heterosexual relationships in media, and the expectation that straight love would suddenly happen to a person when they reached a certain age against their will. When I really came to terms with my sexuality, and realized that the whole heteronormative bullshit was just that, I felt like a weight was lifted off my shoulders.
This was a long winded way of saying that forced romance (especially forced straight romance), hurts not only straight people trying to get into relationships, but queer people as well.
As someone who’s asexual, this video hits hard
wow this video has so many various examples to back up the thesis! I’m so pleasantly surprised and really enjoyed watching
Thank you for this, there's a reason why romance is a guilty pleasure and i think you explained well enough why it is
Great essay, it was so filled with interesting ideas you could probably make an entire video just about Urusai Yatsura and the whole harem trope that was spawned off it. Also how the trope was removed of it‘s nuance and driven into the ground, bland MCs in anime and their harems, what myths that can perpetuate for the young men (and women) who consume this kind of content, capitalism that drives the production of these kinds of shows etc… a great topic that deserves to be explored. I recently took a wrong turn on Crunchyroll (who am I kidding the place consists of wrong turns) and watched season 1 of Classroom of the Elite. What surprised me was not how dumb (and comparatively tame) the show was, but how many viewers (in the comments) were absolutely rooting for the very bland MC and incel-tinged shenanigans in the show. This stuff has more influence on viewers than one might think.
Those the same people who consume lolicon content
Yeah I read Punpun when I had my first manga era after graduating college and I was frankly really disappointed by it (it's definitely a masterpiece but for my part i just expected something different than what i got lol). I think the depiction of depression is alright but also errs on the side of "pain is beautiful" when no its really not its just pain lol. Also in my heart of hearts I feel like the female cast was done dirty but I truly think Asano is already working that out in Dedededestruction. My choice coming of age manga is Bokutachi ga yarimashita (which I typically describe as Stand By Me on uppers)
best video essay ive watch this summer thanks for your effort and please keep going 💖
This is essentially a long way of saying your waifu doesn't exist, and I'm here for it.
On peut trouver son équivalent dans la vraie vie.
Absolutely loved the video and topic. Great work :-)
The word is amatonormativity, and yeah it's a hell of a drug!
This was such a good video and I enjoyed it immensely. Thank you for making this.
Just finished it, awesome video!❤
This video is amazing, thank you so much !! Will be subbing !!!
I love this so much! your editing and writing style is amazing, and the topic you choose are facinating- I do think you lack a bit of structure in the way you frame things (question, explanation, conclusion), but then again I've never written a video assay in my life , so feel free to ignore my critique. i cant wait to see more of your videos!!!
Went more experimental with the structure than usual in this one (if it feels disjointed that's why) but I always appreciate the feedback
Best thing I’ve watched in a while. Thank you
I can’t even put into words how blown away I am by this video. I love this video so much omg
Great discussion! I enjoyed your insightful takes. Well worth the time.
One thing to note editing wise, I totally felt it improve as the cuts slowed down and you just got on with your storytelling. The beginning felt like it could be cut together just a touch slower. I think you even cut off your own audio at one point. Precious seconds that could make your next video better.
The better editing is, the less anyone realises it exists. Excluding those hilarious wtf interruptive moments. (They also need to have enough seconds screen time.)
No shade though. You've done a heck of a lot of work and time spent putting this together, OMG.
Added this to my psychology playlist, it's that insightful.
I am editing my story so this added an extra thought in my head for when I get to the part where MC meets the damsel in distress. On edits you ask yourself about how much you need to push the weight of certain [character] factoids. How much do I really need to push X? This video assures me: not much! I had it right my first take. The question came because I know some people get irritated when you never declare your character's labels and only imply them. "Erasure" is their point. You remind me that the counterpoint to their argument is accessibility. If the reader subs in the authorial intent, I should be happy that they enjoyed it that much as to make it their own. That will happen much better for my imaginary target audience without labels.
Note to self: stay subtle! Min labels, max cypher, add more juice. Let's go!
Sometimes the YT AI gives me videos I actually need. This has been one of them. Thanks for the discussion. I will definitely be checking out your other videos!
My takeaway is that you shouldn't take what you see in fiction for granted, especially where "romance" in concerned. Some of these are stories are unapologetic wish fulfillment, others are merely optimistic and idealized stories where people get what the want because they wanted it enough, and didn't give up, but things seldom work that way in the real world. Not with regards to any pursuit, least-of-all love. All relationships basically have a random chance of both success and failure. Not to say that there isn't anything you can to make it work, if you like a person enough, and can reasonably see yourselves together for the rest of your lives, and if the feeling is mutual. There's no such thing as a perfect person, or perfect relationship, you have to fight to make it work, and that doesn't make it less valuable, it makes it more valuable. But success is never a foregone outcome, and people get hurt when you try to force it to be.
In other words, these stories are the best-case scenarios, often impossibly so, rather than the default reality. They can be fun, stimulating, or even a degree of inspiring, but you should by no means model your expectations after them. Get out there and find yourself something real...
This is clear as crystal and very well done. Please do more. It's important to call out where some very heart-warming and oft-repeated stories can lead real people, when we don't realize what in them is very specifically crafted to hit on desires and longings. A look at romance writing that fully humanizes women and stories of productive male/female friendship that help us see beyond the same old romance scripts would be welcome. I realize that's very challenging territory, but you write very well.
Dude, this was transcendent. Going to see what else you've created right now!
mY GUY U ARE SO COOL!!! im so happy that i found you!!! :зззз