The Stolitz Problem: A Show-Endangering Ship
Vložit
- čas přidán 6. 02. 2023
- It's the month of love and lust and I'm coming in to break the Helluva Boss fandom's favorite sex toy because the Stolitz ship is so bad it's making exisiting problems with the show worse.
Just Stop's Review: • Helluva Boss is So End...
HezuNeutral's Review: • Helluva Boss Continues...
Vanitymoth's Review: • The Newest Helluva Bos...
Cartoonshi's Review: • The FATAL Flaws of Hel...
MrEnter's Seashorse Seashell Party Review: • Animated Atrocities 01...
MrEnter's Screams of Silence Review and Extra Thoughts: • Animated Atrocities 09... and • Further thoughts on "S...
Want to send me some monetary kudos? You can donate to my Ko-Fi here: ko-fi.com/F2F6K5WA
Streaming whenever I can! Check me out over at Twitch: / analyticeruption
Join the public Discord server: / discord
Please read the rules and post an introduction so we can get your permissions granted.
CZcams, this is a Fair Use video that uses clips of existing media as a way to illustrate points being made about it. Leave it alone. This video is absolutely not for children, don't even DARE try pulling that card.
#helluvaboss #helluvabossseason2 - Krátké a kreslené filmy
With 4 more episodes out at time of writing this comment and more coming, the next time I talk about Helluva is going to have to be a "Year in Review" or second season retrospective since I don't have the time to review each episode as they come. I have other matters to attend to like work.
Love the use of panty and stocking music
It didn't get better.
The show is faulty in so many ways this is one of the most glaring it's basically a relationship based on SA
SA, abuse of power, retcons that just make everything worse, the list goes on.
It’s a shame because this show has talent here same with the gorgeous animation but story or characters can be rough at times.
@@erikbihari3625 It has to be abbreviated because it triggers CZcams but SA in this case refers to assault of an intimate nature and intimate referring to the things in your pants.
As a sa victim i can back this up its like some weird ass mutual assault?? Maybe statutory??
@@DishonorableMentions452 Statutory applies to cases of an adult and a minor as minors cannot consent. With Stolas being drunk and Blitz tying him up, biting him, and pity fucking him, I don't know the proper legal terminology or category of SA that would apply. Though I do diagnose the scene with bad writing.
Stolitz is literally just a relationship built on coercion. The power dynamic is too imbalanced to /not/ be non-consensual.
also it was just plain weird bc of that one scene in the circus
I think Helluva Boss ran into the same problem as Frozen.
Halfway through making the damn thing the creative team changed their minds on what the project was about.
For most of Frozen's development, Elsa was the villain.
Then 'Let It Go' happened. It was such a hit song that the team had to scramble to massively re-write Elsa into the tragic protagonist. What you are left with is an incoherent story that doesn't make sense. Why doesn't it make sense? Because when Hans is introduced, the new main villain, half of his actions actively go against his goal of seizing the throne. Example:
Hans is never shown behaving or looking suspicious (even when he's alone), so him being evil happens with zero foreshadowing.
Hans decides he won't kiss Anna so she will die from an ice shard in her heart (but he makes very little effort to detain her.).
Hans goes to kill Elsa whom has run away from the kingdom (and is the reason Anna is dying in the first place), but when he has multiple chances to kill Elsa, he doesn't.
Because Hans was not meant to be the villain and scenes that kept his former, good portrayal were kept in.
Same thing happened with Stolitz in Helluva Boss. The chemistry between Stolas & Blitzo is nonexistant but the show is trying to gaslight you into thinking it's there as of Season 2. This is why the show starts off being about I.M.P, but as it goes on it becomes more about Stolitz.
I was already planning on addressing this in the Helluva 2023 Overview video I've got planned but holy sh1t, you nailed it dude
@@MagmaPaint Thanks, just some of my own observations I came to while watching (Though a few HB Analysis videos did help I admit).
It is for this shift in focus and case of slopping writing from Viv & Co. thay I really fucking hate the episode *The Circus* , for how it strips away every last shred of moral greyness that Stolas had going on to justify his actions in Season 1. How?
Stolas roped Blitz into a transactional relationship which is textbook sexual coercion? Well turns out they were childhood friends and Blitz (who actually loves Stolas but cannot admit it) fucked Stolas out of pity when he was escaping with the Grimoire.
Stolas has trouble connecting with his Daughter Octavia? He had a shitty Dad who was never there and only saw Stolas as a means to an end. Loona outright tells Octavia (and by extension us, the viewers) in *Seeing The Stars* to give Stolas some slack...Because?
Stella is pissed at Stolas for cheating on her? Turns out she was always abusive and the cheating never actually hurt her. So despite Stolas' affair having caused Octavia deep emotional pain and destroyed her home life...We cannot be mad at him because Stella is an evil abuser. She's like a reverse Elsa. Stella got the Hans treatment.
In one fell swoop the Spindlehorse team absolved Stolas of every bad thing he's ever done so the audience will excuse him still being a shitty person.
You made a Bojack comparison and I think it is *very* appropriate for why Stolas doesn't work as a character. When Bojack does wrong the writers (and characters around him) call him out. When *Stolas* does something wrong there is *always* a caveat to make it seem less of a dick move. Such as is the case with the above examples.
@@PlanetZoidstar The cheating not hurting Stella in a romantic way could still work. Just remove the overly nasty behavior she had to Stolas. Because it doesn't make any sense with the way she is now that Octavia wouldn't have picked up on how horrid she is. Instead it would make sense that Stella always remained cordial with Stolas, with a bit of verbal bite since she just doesn't love him. Then having her actual reason for being mad is that Stolas ruined all her efforts to keep up appearances with him. Her motivation for wanting him dead can still be shit while also being reasonable.
@@rutyqutykandi1361 I agree, that would be way better than what we got. The only reason Stella is so cruel and abusive to Stolas is to justify the steamy, forbidden love affair. Without that then Stolas would be the bad guy and Viv won't have that, he used to be morally grey in Season 1 but Season 2 undid all that ambugity. We still don't know why Stella is so pissed considering the affair didn't *actually* hurt her....She's purely an evil bitch for plot reasons. Nothing more.
@@PlanetZoidstar I almost want to rewrite things. But I'd be better off just making my own stuff since that's usually what happens when I go to rewrite. The characters take inspiration then go an entirely different route as they become fleshed out.
There comes a point where story writers lose the plot of their own narrative, so fanfic writers step in to save it. It’s like Uno. Thanks for the cards, we’ll take it from here.
Well, I did a kind of rewrite of The Circus in another comment section and it got a good amount of people saying "Damn, why couldn't we have gotten this for an episode?"
@@MagmaPaint amen
The best part probably will be seeing fanfics reewriting.
@@platinumg.8614 real
Ahh, are you familiar with Homestuck too?
Never understood why Stolas didn't just become the villain. His attitude with Blitz is disgusting, foul, vile, but I'm supposed to feel bad for him now because of daddy issues?
Fans can't pretend this "not-even-a love triangle" speaks to those with dysfunctional families or parents when its real purpose is to drive the protagonist into their designated love interest's arms.
Pretty much. It's a flimsy justification for a flimsy character to be in a flimsy romantic relationship because of flimsy and horny writing.
Just like Cinderella, but edgy and gay. How ridiculous.
Helluva Boss got off to an interesting start, but has since wasted a lot of potential.
Stolas is now just a Mary Sue whose actions have had barely any real negative consequences on his life. Be it through his relationship with his daughter or his reputation in the Ars Goatia family.
The kidnapping by Striker doesn't count, as he was rescued after a short time.
In general, the conflicts in the series are resolved far too quickly. The big conflict between Blitz and Fizzaroli is resolved with a one-off "Sorry it was an accident!" conversation. Similarly with Octavia and her fears of abandonment. A quick "Ah, I won't" from her father and she's no longer afraid, seriously?
Especially in the second season, the central theme is completely lost and gets lost in subplots like the mammon episode. What is the central conflict of the story? I don't know, everything will be resolved in some episode anyway. Helluva Boss has now reached the level of a morning soap where all the characters degenerate into one-dimensional extras so that the writers can pull some nonsense plot out of their asses because they can't push the show forward any other way.
The hell aspect itself has also degenerated into a minor matter.
Ultimately, this show will go nowhere.
I have yet to get caught up on the new episodes (I have this really funny thing called a job) but the next time I talk about this show sticking a hot poker in its foot over and over again is going to be a year in review.
@@MagmaPaint Ah I know this funny thing too well :D
And I'll look forward to the review.
Stolas isn't a Mary Sue lol why would Stolas' relationship with his daughter get ruined? She may not completely understand why her dad did what he did but she wasn't angry with him after talking about her feelings with him. the guy almost got killed by Stella twice and his relationship with Blitz isn't going so well. Before Blitz he was depressed and developed a drinking problem to cope with his life and takes anti depressants. The guy was gay but he was forced to marry a scary woman like Stella. The only reason he stayed with Stella was for his daughter to have a normal life even though he was extremely unhappy. His childhood was neglectful, his servants were the ones that took care of him and his father hardly visits. The guy's life is a mess so how is he a mary sue? "He never suffered any consequences for his actions" what?!? Stella tried to kill him twice for what he did, Via doesn't live with him anymore, and his relationship with Blitz is unrequited. So Stolas is suffering enough lol plus, Stella isn't even mad that he cheated, she's mad because it ruined her image. She didn't give a fxck about him and despised him. She wanted him dead and wants him to suffer in any way possible. The guy wants to escape a terribly abusive arranged marriage but people want him to pay for it with his life, how stupid.
@@Claudia_Crimson_585 The copium wafting off you is palpable
@@MagmaPaintit's false information lol why are you getting so irritated for? If you think Stolas is living a perfect happy life, you're delusional because he never was happy once in his life. Before Blitz, his daughter was the only thing that brought light into his life.
Season 1 ep 6 and 7 still worked for me because it looked like the show would their complicated relationship. During the hallucination sequence Blitz was crawling on hands knees with **golden chains** around his wrists and ankles seemed to suggest that he felt trapped in his relationship with Stolas and alluded to their unbalanced power dynamic. To me, it looked like he was crawling to Stolas because *he had nowhere else to go.* When Stolas called Blitz his plaything during the rescue made the kiss at the end less romantic and more like Blitz was returning a favor.
Episode 7 made it painfully clear Blitz only agreed to the date idea because he wanted to stalk to Moxxie and Millie and him telling Stolas off felt cathartic.
It seemed like, while yes there could be something romantic going on, the show was at least willing to call out Stolas’ behavior and the writers would put in the work to make a healthy relationship between the two believable.
Then the season 2 premiere happened.
Hard agree on everything you’ve said here. Just everything. I want the show to be good again so badly but Stolas keeps pushing his obsession with Blitzo to make it look like actual love and like. I might have literally gotten to the point where I actually want Striker to kill him.
And kill Andrealphus for good measure/so Stella can get _some_ compensation and a chance to be a better character. Then she and her cowboy hitman can go riding off into the sunset while Blitzo joins Fizz and Ozzie’s relationship. _Helluva Boss_ Good Ending achieved.
I agree
The kiss thing comes off in context to me as a "fawn" reaction to trauma. Victims of abuse and rape will flatter and cater to their abusers as a way of getting hurt less.
My main problem with stolitz as a ship is that the show hardly if ever calls Stolas out for how he treats Blitz, and even when Blitz calls him out for his behaviour the show frames it like he's in the wrong, regardless on how you feel about Blitz as a character, he has every right to not want to be treated like a toy. It feels like the writers thought people wouldn't like Stolas being a morally grey character so they try their best to make excuses or outright ignore it
I think it's this reason why Asmodeus and Fizz have grown to be one of the most loved couples in the show. Asmodeus never treats Fizz the way Stolas does with Blitz and never tries to use his position as the prince of lust to manipulate Fizz, he's always respectful and supportive with his partner when they do have their disagreements it's never to the same extreme as Stolitz and they always find a middle ground (prey that they don't screw with them like what they did with Moxie and Millie)
I don't generally think Vivziepop or any of the writers had Ill intentions when writing these two, but I do feel like they should've realised that how they're portraying their relationship isn't healthy and could give mix messages
I can’t help but notice that this forced attempt to convince the audience that Blitzo and Stolas would be a good couple reared its ugly head when Brandon stopped writing for the show.
Also hearing you complain about how Blitzo and Stolas don’t have any real chemistry made me feel so validated. “Oops” and “Mammon’s Magnificent Musical Mid-Season Special (ft. Fizzarolli)” may not be perfect, but come on. There’s no denying here that Blitzo has way better and more convincing chemistry with Fizz than he ever did with Stolas.
Wait when did Brandon stop writing and why?
@@blade1hunter100 I don’t have the why, but aside from story credits, he’s evidently not been involved with writing directly for the entirety of Season 2 thus far; it’s always either Viv, Adam Neylan, or both. Although it did also sort of start with “Ozzie’s”, also an episode written solely by Viv.
It’s really unfortunate, too, because if you look at Brandon’s own many series on his channel (like “Stuff n Sam”, “Blame the Hero”, all of his videos with Blah Blah the Clown, etc.), it’s clear that he _can_ make really engaging stories with his fucked up and bizarre-ass characters that are also hilarious, so why Viv chose to stop taking advantage of his expertise is beyond me.
@@HannahBaninaAlso his sketch "Grandpa versus Blitzø", that was the funniest Helluva related thing I've seen in a good while. IMP stuff needs to come back.
@@MagmaPaint FOR REAL I signed up for a Brandon Rogers-vibed murder comedy, not an inter-class romance drama. I’m not exaggerating when I say Stolas is the primary reason I’ve decided to just quit the show. Fuck, man.
@@HannahBanina I'm only staying for Moxxie and Octavia because they're my favorites and if the leaks are to be believed it looks like they won't even let me have that (storyboards of an episode where Millie is coerced into game-ending herself and notes about Octavia fully siding with Stella and possibly becoming a villain were part of the leak)
I have been saying this exact thing for so long, and I got insulted by a fairly well-known Hazbin/Helluva theory CZcamsr in his Discord server for simply saying Stolitz isn't executed well lmao. And honestly, for me, personally, Stolitz isn't just "show-ruining", it's also character-ruining, because up until S1 E5, I actually liked Stolas, him and Blitzo were my favourites, but as the show progressed, I've just come to dislike both characters, and almost the show itself. I know the pilot isn't exactly "canon" anymore, but I still feel as though the pilot promised something and then never delivered. I don't want "toxic yaoi", I want demon assassins killing people. This is not the show I signed up for lmao.
Blud, I am so sorry you got grief from that person. It appears that the show has gaslit the audience so hard about these two characters working as a pairing that the audience in turn is trying to gaslight the ones that see right through it.
@@MagmaPaint That's so real.
Let me guess,It was Cartoon Universe,wasn't it?
@@abuttnugget6753 Not gonna name any names. (It was Carton Universe).
@@atreecalledivan [sigh] God damn it. I had hoped it wasn't him,but just from the few videos of his I've ever watched he just kinda REEKED of being one of "those" people. I hardly had to know anything about him to pick up on those kinda vibes from him,which is absolutely sad!
This video perfectly explains explains why i slowly started to hate the shit more and more as time went on. Even Taking Stella into account Stolitz is still shit. IMO it took until oops to get good characterization for stolas. S2E1 set up a good plot where stolas was starting realize that Blitz maybe didn't actually love him only for it to be completely undone in s2e2. plus in s2e4 Even When stolas is close to death ALL HE CAN THINK ABOUT IS BLITZ! To add on more shit to the shredder, a lot of people like to claim that Fizzmodeus is what blitz and stolas could have if they just talk. How i process is it is that fizzmodeus is what stolas will never have because of how classist he is.
please, writers, dont favor giving a socially recluse character a relationship for fun before developing them in that aspect, let alone a relationship with the main character.
1:05-So it's a "didn't we used to be a delivery company" syndrome? I love Futurama but I think this quote is applicable
I think so, yeah. Plus I think Futurama handled the gradual change from premise A to premise B a lot better because the ingredients for premise B were present from episode 1
@@MagmaPaint God I hope the Hulu run sticks the landing
I feel like what would've been better would be if Blitz and Stolas were like in a situation where Stolas regularly hired Blitz, lent out his book under the agreement that Blitzo basically worked for/with him (took care of problems for him), and the two just happened to fool around on the side. Begin with no feelings attached. Stolas is a villain (maybe even a shunned royal), and Blitz is his for-hire righthand man when he needs one. But then, maybe, the two start to bond into something more during this dysfunctional dynamic.
I feel like this could work in a few ways. First, the sexual and romantic stuff would NOT be transactional, but something the two just occasionally do because why the hell not. So, if they did eventually develop feelings, that aspect wouldn't be as tainted. Sure, Stolas is still hiring Blitz for something, but the dynamic is shifted. And speaking of which- having Stolas be a shunned or exiled royal could put them on a similar level. Both he and Blitz are stuck in their current situation due to their own decisions, and maybe they could bond through that. Heck, Blitz might take a weird thrill out of somehow being the one who's higher on the totem pole.
Plus, I feel by having Stolas as a villain or anti-villain instead of a victim would force the show into acknowledging his behavior... Or at least make the show less defensive of him.
DING DING. A much more fleshed out and not so creepy plot.
Fun fact, Viv has stated the original plan was for stolas to be a villain but over time she and Brandon thought it’d be cute to have stolas and blitz fall in love and not just fuck.
In other words Viv and Barron in an attempt to make a cute uwu couple made a situation where one party is basically exploiting the other just cause he “always loved him”, and the other is basically forced to peg him simply so he can do his bloody job and provide for his daughter and his friends/ employees (really wanted to say IMPloyees but chose not to”.
Also hi Mrs notatall
I love that idea! It would be awesome character development for Stolitz. Stolas starting as an antagonist using Blitz for his own personal gain to a genuinely good person that begins to fall in love with Blitz. I think it'd really give Stolas this personality of someone who's changed as an effort for the one he loves. Amazing comment! :)
The main issue I had with Helluva Boss was that it lost its premise way too quickly and completely undermined itself.
The show was supposed to be about a dark office comedy about an assassin group fueled by a shaky and taboo relationship between royalty and lowly peasant.
And now the show has been reduced to a confusing fanfiction of itself that’s all over the place and lacks focus.
Vivzie already got bored with the main selling point only halfway into the first season, that's a record.
Stolitz felt like it had so much potential in the beginning tbh. I was here for the toxic relationship when the showrunners weren’t rewriting their characters to try to force the ship in a healthy direction. If anything they managed to make it LESS healthy in the process, too. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I can see the bias of the writers in a BAD way.
I don't think this ship could have ever worked; even with the pilot having its canon privileges revoked, season 1 until Ozzie's/Truth Seekers' asspull ending still had the foundation for Stolas to operate as an antagonist that could make or break Blitz's operations and it should have stayed that route.
THANK U. God I can’t stand them anymore! Threw out the ENTIRE season 2, Stolas is made the “Owowooo I’m the herrroooo victim” no! It’s just so one sided now! I HATE how Stella was written from this “I can’t spend another moment with u!” To this “WHaaATTtt AaA PPpAAaTTTHETtIC FUCKING MAN! *slaps*” 😑😡 And I used to like the ships potential! But the show confused potential for canon! (Heck even the “new” Stolas song is just another Blitz love me! Song. And if u listen to the original song (yes it’s a remake form like 3 years ago) you’ll see the writer had Stolas act pompous and snobby, asking if all lower class where this frustrating. But through the song he grew to understand what he did to Blitz…WISH WE GOT THAT INSTEAD! The song now (remake) is just a pretty birthday card at Walmart!!! (Oh also, apparently when Stella abuses Stolas it’s serious but when Loona attacks her dad it’s funny. Ok)
I just got off of another internet video about Helluva boss and the Stolitz stuff. I'm glad people are getting better at articulating the issues with Stella. When she first dropped on the scene I could pick up they weren't that happily married but I still thought her reasoning at being mad at cheating was justified. I figured we would learn that while she could never love Stolas and found him a spineless coward, she never imagined he would cheat given all she did to hold up appearances. So him being so blatant about it, even if it was only from the imp pissed her off, especially since the first episode he tries to placate her. It was just another point in her true beliefs about him.
The correct term for the series' tonal shift is "Cerebus Syndrome" not Cerberus. It was a term coined by Eric Burns-White after the indie comic book series Cerebus the Aardvark that, like Helluva Boss, started off comedic but then slowly moved to a more serious storyline.
12:03 Hard disagree here. In that same hallucination, Blitz is going to Stolas *in chains.* He probably only sees Stolas as this heavenly figure because he’s the only thing that keeps his business afloat. He feels trapped with Stolas because if he doesn’t sleep with him, he loses the mode of transportation to the human world and therefore his job. So he has pretty much no choice. In the harvest episode, Stiker even says that an imp opening a business is impressive since imps are that lowly treated. Blitz feels trapped in this arrangement. The very next episode after Truth Seekers, Blitz makes it openly obvious to Stolas that this relationship is purely transactional. It’s only the big issue in season 2 where they introduce this nonsensical Childhood crush thing.
im very biased in that i dont like "you complete me" "you make me a better person" tropey romances, especially not "romance is the only way this/these characters can be fixed" kinda vibes. it's why i dont really like most shows and movies as much as i'd like to. secondly, i've been up all night. im a mess and this sure as hell wont be coherent lol.
honestly im hoping/expecting that the shows narrative regarding blitz and stolas will be that they dont work as a romantic couple, and that's okay, not only that but they shouldnt throw themselves towards the first/next person they see who will rely on them and not leave or be a possible suitor, that these two need to work on themselves and maybe they can help eachother out that way in a very platonic sense. i want/expect the narrative to be "blitz you can't have your entire life be revolved around someone you use as a distraction" (he literally adopted a late teen as a distraction from his mental health lol) and "stolas get out there and learn to be a person unsheltered and get more in touch with the world"
maybe then they'll find that "exciting dramatic relationships" arent really passionate or fun in the long run
maybe they'll find eachother later after this arc or maybe they'll find someone else, or not, and that would be okay.
we already have the m&ms and ozzie&fizz who act as foils to the flaws of blitz&stolas, we already have those relationships to enjoy and they dont need to rely on fanficcy tropes.
and before anyone says that would be queer baiting, no it wouldnt. stolas and blitz have been explisitly shown to be interested, they're giving the old college try even if they are very stuck in their ways, scared, broken people. the show and the viv universe are very queer and frankly im sick of shows tripping over themselves to excuse all the blaring issues in a relationship if not just ignore them outright. good representation isnt just about the relationship happening for the sake of it, it's also acknowledging that not all two queer people are automatically compatible just because they're both queer. we're queer even when we arent or havent ever been in a relationship, yknow?
like, i really dont have anything against people who enjoy and are routing for the ship, it's fictional, the characters are literally in hell, they're adults. if it scratches an itch for people and it doesnt actually hurt anyone, then that's objectively a net positive. i just kinda wish i could find something that scratches my itch too.
Your problem
@@dulcemendoza3526 well, apparently it's more yours than mine. i'd entirely forgotten i made these comments, yet you thought it important and emotionally provoking enough to respond. funny that..
I really wish they did more with Stella, it really feels like theyre trying their absolute best to justify Stolas and make her the bad guy
nvm i didnt see the video fully
Trying to focus on the essay but getting distracted by the banger soundtrack
the pilot was so fricking funny and i genuinely enjoyed moxie being a foil to blitz - thought this was wayyy stronger characterization than the mafia au backstory we got. also the female characters are always the weakest writing wise for vivzie which is so disappointing - i have a feeling she doesn't really enjoy writing female characters. Vaggie and charlie were very funny in hazbin's pilot tho. As much as the premise for both shows revels in the moral bankruptcy of both heaven and hell the writing tends to fall back on some pretty conventional good guy bad guy tropes to garner sympathy from the audience for certain characters...
I mean Viv said she cares about Millie & shows she feels bad for Millie not focused on and we were promised an episode just for her and/or the sole focus but we got UC so yes, that's exactly it.
15:09-And I wonder how Viziepop was able to get well known singers and voice actors like Christina Vee, Erica Lindbeck, David Horvitz, Johnathan Freeman, Alex Brightman, James Monroe Iglehart, Norman Reedus and Edward Basco.
Finally a video that addressed how i feel about this ship, and i do hate how whenever the show focus on them it kinda feels like the show becomes a official Wattpad fanfic of itself
Also i love the psg ost on the background
Funny enough, one of my friends and I talked about this show recently. She told me that she used to watch this show and came back to it during some time during season 2. She was totally lost, and went like, "Wtf is going on anymore?" She dropped it. To be honest, I don't blame her. Hell, I did the same thing at the start of season 2.
This show was supposed to be about a bunch of imps running a hitman business. It somehow slowly devolved into only focusing on Stolitz telenovela drama style bullshit. It would be one thing if this was a well written side plot in the first season, but it really isn't. It's inconsistent and all over the place. The show treats Stolas as this uwu sad boy and ignores the messed up aspects of their relationship or his actions. I heard somewhere that the show has the same problem as Frozen where it bent over backwards to turn a villain into a more heroic one, and I can easily buy that. It's ashamed too since that toxic dynamic has so much potential if it was treated as such, but in execution, it falls flat on its face.
On a related side note, I'm still annoyed about how Stella's written. The show glosses over her side of the story to reduce her down to "angry, screaming bitch" and makes her so cartoonishly evil. She clearly doesn't want to be in this marriage either and is trying to make things work for her daughter's sake. Her being upset with Stolas for cheating on her is understandable. Hell, I would be pissed off if my partner cheated on me, too! But the show never explores any of this, and that's so annoying to me, since that has so much potential.
Season 2 is garbage, Viv got bored with the initial premise 5 episodes into the show's lifetime and instead of Season 2 being the cleanup to a messy start it instead brought in the 4 horsemen of the show's downfall in record time, back to back. That'll be the next Helluva video I make since 50 hour work weeks don't make larger retrospective videos easy to work on.
Edit: clarified that Viv's boredom arrived in Season 1, not at 205
Blitz getting dragged up to stoliz I think is showing he’s trapped. That he’s desprate to get away but can’t because he thinks if he leaves no one will ever love him, but this is a good video!!
Everyone: Screw you Charlie we don't care if you're Lucifer's spawn
Everyone: Omg, it's one of those noble Owl people demons!
To be fair Charlie is talking mostly to Sinners so they probably don't really care about Hell's Nobility System. While Stolas interacts with mostly Hellborns who grew up in this environment.
@@silverguy9605 oh yeah that makes sense, I guess sinners'd just reincarnate even if they pissed off a hellborn demon who was stronger than them. Although you'd still expect to see some people at least feign being starstruck the same way randos who don't even live in the U.K. are obsessed with their royalty so I'm still not entirely convinced
15:40 I'm so glad someone mentioned this, because whenever I watch a video about Blitz and Stoles. They just ignore almost every terrible thing blitz does.
Blitz literally tried to kill Stoles and uses a him to get the Grimoire, A book that is technically Octavia and he barely protects it.
Why does nobody mentions this? Yes, Stoles not is not innocent in this relationship. Compared to Blitz, I'll argue that he's kinda a victim to Blitz abuse.
Here's the thing, of the two the WRITING gives shit for regarding their actions, BLITZ gets the lion's share of it. Blitz is more active in his cockery and it comes to bite him in the ass, even taking why he's such a bulgereek nookstain into account. Stolas is so passive that the writing rushes to baby him and makes it obvious that Vivzie and crew and the hormone riddled teenage girls who cream their coulottes over BakugoXDeku Wattpad fics are too attached and horny for this bird to actually address and properly punish his wrongdoings.
Honestly I never liked this ship mainly that it was already abusive from beginning only retcon that strips away what was established earlier and absolves Stolas of guilt and pretty much the show is SVTFOE again
I supported this ship at first, now I'm against it which is obviously for good reasons but what Stolas has done with the Grimoire and the recklessness of what Blitz is doing with it, Blitz damaging the natural order and giving Sinners control to kill those that killed them, example why it is really bad is giving Thugs and whatnot the ability to kill innocent individuals doing the right thing. That is also just irresponsible as a prince and why I've came to respect Stella more and believe Stolas is definitely an embarrassment to his family name even though Stella's just the most evil, she doesnt have a heart or even cares about Octavia.
Have we even seen any evidence she DOESN'T care about Octavia? She didn't even consider killing her when her bro pointed out Octavia stood in her way of the Goetia fortune, which implies either she cares or the writers are too dumb to breathe if they didn't see fit to address that.
The pilot sold me on the funny premise Blitzo fucked Stolas good, a demon let him go unscathed. Like Donkey rizzing the dragon. It's a miracle he's not dead. Much more use the grimoire on the clause he has to meet him every full moon.
I liked Stolitz because of the dumpster fire that it is. The ship could have worked by having Stolas take responsibility.
Cuz Season 2 absolves him of everything.
EP 7 shows us they are NOT in love. Make S2 refocus on IMP. At ep 2-3, have Blitzo say that the jackass (Stolas) has not phoned him. Boom, full moon on ep 4-5. Blitzo psyches himself up for their monthly deal and heads to the mansion with the book. Shocker, Stolas severs the physical transaction. No texts, calls, or sex. Blitzo must simply return the grimoire every full moon.
Have Stolas say this will be the case until he secures an Asmodean crystal for Blitzo's business. This would be his gift of good will. He has forgiven Blitzo for the date's events, and apologizes to Blitzo for the mess he roped both of them into. The crystal will formally end their deal and further contact. Stolas doesn't even have to do all this. Let Blitzo simmer in confusion for later eps over a royal demon who would apologize to him and go this far - a gift with no strings attached. Let this upset him because he does not like owing Stolas. Then season finale could be Blitzo saving Stolas and Octavia, his equal gift to Stolas. Now they are even. Imply they cut contact once IMP receives the crystal at the end.
If they really want to make Stolitz a thing, they can explore that on Season 3. But no ooh we have been in love all this time.
Let them actually develop good emotional chemistry, in contrast to the fast paced physical transaction they got in S1.
And most importantly, DON'T make them the hyperfocus of the show! I think even Stolitz shippers like me are also put off with S2 cuz of that.
(Note: wrote this is as a reply and now just really want to vent it out. I liked S1 so much that S2 EP 1 made me drop it hard.)
I was wearing headphones and that punch sound effect at around a minute and 5 seconds mark actually scared me
Stolis’ space cape is cool.
Eh, agreed. It's the only cool thing about him
See freaking Sonic and Amy have more chemistry then these 2. In the recent IDW Comics her and Sonic respect each other as Heroes/Companions. Amy is not that hyper crazy fangirl anymore as shes grown up since then. Stollace and BlitZ on the other hand Im not even sure why these 2 even like each other to begin with. So they had one play date together and that makes them wanna bang in a few years as Adults? Really Viv? Do u knw nothing about actual relationships?
I don't like this ship cause basically the creators copying fanfiction in order to make this ship canon.
@@erikbihari3625 the show is an official product made by the creators
22:08-At least with Empress Anabella from final fantasy 16, the whole part of her treating her eldest son Clive like crap is because he failed to awaken as the dominant of the Phoenix which made the other nobles of Rosaria laugh at her and believed that Clive was the son of a whore. She was a stuck up, selfish noble who carried about having the son that’s the most powerful dominant to combat the Blight which is slowly destroying their world.
And can this show not focus way too much on Stolas and Blitzo’s romance and develop some of its characters, like Millie and Loona. This romance feels like a fanfic couple spawned from either Deviantart or Tumblr where a married guy cheats on his wife who the writers turn into a bitch by sleeping with his male childhood friend. Plus they have to make the characters whiny, let male characters sexually assault each other and have them want the big fat d.
Example: Tokyo Ghoul, Naruto, Dragon Age, Fire Emblem (Awakening, Fates, Three Houses), Final Fantasy 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 15, 16, Tales of the Abyss, Symphonia, Grace, Xillia, Vesperia, Berseria and Arise, Kingdom Hearts, Code Geass, Avatar the Last Airbender, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Durarara and Full Metal Alchemist.
I started to dislike this ship as well and even more I see these videos and think yeah. Not way would be good to both be a couple.
I think there could be the episodic nature but a way to expand the worldbuilding of the world and also the characters (Like some episodes is focusing in one character and one flaw or introducing some guy)
Stolitz could be a good example
-How is the hierarchy
-How racism work (Stolas treating Blitz sometimes as bellow him even without the intent)
-How Stolas' isolation problems could explain why he is so hypersexual. Maybe Stellas isnt a bitch, but the sex was more a obligation than part of a relationship. Thats why he would crush Blitz at first sight as a kid.
If the show wouldnt focus in sex jokes in various scenes...
(I joking about a bit because isnt the primary issues just a consequence, but like there time they used part of the money for just focus in sex jokes like with Amodeus and Moxie's Dad, which the more you think is kinda funny)
Personally I like Stolitz I don't mind it, but I see your point. I agree with some even. Helluva Boss is pretty sloppy at times but I still like and enjoy Helluva Boss it could even be one of my favourite shows (but I don't watch shows too often so idk) but everything I said is just my opinion and you don't have to agree with it 😅
Tbh it is fun but a lot of the show gets sacrificed to it. Had they done a slow build up to them going to something more than a transactional relationship. But they threw any cool story building out for instant gratification and trash drama, instead of getting a nice slow cooked stew with carefully put together harmonious ingredients we get microwave nuggets with ketchup slathered on it
@@GraveyardMaiden well I wouldn't call it trash drama, Blitzo has always have trouble opening up and Stolas doesn't want to force Blitzo into talking and thinks Blitzo only sees their relationship transactionally. Of course I'm simplifying it alot but I personally, don't really mind much of the choices they made withs Stolitz but the part of them not talking about Ozzie's in Seeing Stars without any hints or clues of them just pretending it didn't happen and them meeting as kids I'm not really on board with. But I do like Stolitz and the show still, it of course could be way better but I still enjoy them and the show but I can see why people lost interest in it though. But I'm still pretty hyped for the next episode The Full Moon coming next month, hopefully they make good changes to Stolitz in the episode since it's been over half a year since both of them have interacted
@@Vexcited_ eeeh I doubt it will do anything that hasn't been done before in the show, and like over all the writing for the two have just been built up on lazy fan fic tropes and shallow predictable drama. Like sure it's quick entertainment but like it's really not that satisfying to watch when you know it's going to be rushed with little flavor
the worst part is that besides the story just focusing on this couple, they don't even have enough chemistry to be interesting!
Honestly i stopped watching helluva boss bc it just became a shitty Stoliz fan fic.... Like had they just focused on the gang doing their job the crew could of worked out on developing the main caste the show would of had a majority of it's problems ironed out. But hey Vizi knows that fujoshis will throw money at gabage gay ships, and she would be a fool not to cash in on that cow.
“ARE YOU FUCKING FILMING US RIGHT NOW???” That crossed the line beyond mere stalking… 🙄
I was never that interested in checking out Helluva Boss, though I might SOMEDAY. Also thanks for the tip about cerberus syndrome. If I get lucky enough to pitch my own Scooby Doo show, I'd want it to take a dramatic tone while still retaining my vision of what I want from it.
@@erikbihari3625 I have but I was thinking about taking it a step further, like maybe on screen deaths, more complex mysteries, and such. Kind of like a mashup of the first two live action films and Mystery Incorporated.
2:50 Didn’t the gay space lesbians become a grounded serialized show in the season 1 finale/season 2 premiere “Jailbreak”?
The sudden Gorillaz analysis is so good 😂❤❤
Looking back, I'm mixed on including the segment because on one hand, I thought it would be a good showcase of where I've seen two ingredients of Stolas' characterization and backstory done better even if not in the same character, but on the other I think I went on too long with it and it got clunky and poorly explained in the process. I'll still stand by my points that Murdoc growing up in an abusive environment doesn't excuse his behavior and he does worry about what his band mates think of him even if he's really weird about it and 2-D being as sweet as he is doesn't erase his idiocy and other unsavory habits unlike what the fandom wants to believe. And of course, Gorillaz being the dysfunctional found family they are is a better show of the guys being father figures to Noodle than Helluva Boss trying to keep gaslighting the audience into thinking Stolas is a good father to Octavia.
A month after this video aired and Episode 203 is out now. I have some thoughts on it.
Simple breakdown-
Stolas wants the transactional relationship because he craves attention and affection ->
That need for attention and affection ramps up, resulting in the events at Loo Loo Land ->
Blitza saves Stolas' life and then Stlas does the same, earning a bit of trust to go with STolas' prestated need for affection and company (Stolas phrases this as him saving the book, but he could have always just stolen it back later and also Blitz starts reflecting a tiny bit about his path in life in this same time frame) ->
Blitz agrees to help find Stolas' daughter in the human world, risk be damned, which deepens that trust.
They're both damaged, emotionally stunted, pining people with a lot of unhealthy stuff gong on. I look forward to you reviewing this later, annd hope you include STolas' song Look My Way for insight since it reflects the character so thoroughly Vivzie had it animated and got the actor to sing it. He REGRETS what he's done to Blitz and sees it as wrong.
Also, Stella doesn't love her kid at all. She's all in on the status. That's why she treats STolas as she does and neglects Via. I literally watched a friend of mine grow up through this and it's... NOt great.
As said, I do look forward to your future thoughts on stuff
Anyone here after the full moon episode?
That'll be a video for another time, don't worry.
Stolas’ back story should be done in the beginning of the series, not the start of season 2. The problem with doing the way they did is that anybody who isn’t easily manipulated can see what is happening and know that giving him a sad backstory isn’t going to justify the shitty way he acted in the start.
Metalocalypse didn’t wait until season 2 to explain why Murderface is a dick, they did that in episode 7 where they show that his dad murder uicide and he was raised by his horrible grandmother in the previous episode.
Even then I'd argue that if they went with that then they'd have to start Helluva Boss from scratch and make a better story to accommodate what's essentially become a malignant plot tumor.
Possible PASWG retrospective?
Might make that a Patreon goal or subscriber milestone
I would go as far to say this relationship isn't entirely consensual considering the power imbalance between Stolas and Blitzø and how Blitzø literally will not have a job if he doesn't go along with what Stolas wants. It's coercive and yet the show is pushing it hard whilst in Hazbin Hotel a similar relationship dynamic is shown as abusive (Val and Angel Dust), it's like the creators only see it as bad when it's with characters they don't like. It's genuinely worrying how SA and harrassment in this series is often played for a joke or excused when it's with characters we're supposed to like but then shown as serious and wrong with antagonists (more of a Hazbin Hotel problem but its made by the same people as far as I'm aware).
29:37 God I Love this Song. And you have earned yourself a New subscriber
I like the show, i just assumed the fucked up relationship was intentional an Doomed from the start.
Stolas gets childhood crush, Blitzø pity fucks stolas after stealing the book, Stolas clings to Blitzø using the book as leverage and stalks Blitzø's every move, Blitzo developes Stockholm syndrome while taking advantage of Stolis's status and power, Stolis reveals he is ashamed of Blitzo, Blitzo gets drunk and crys it out, Stolis lets Blitzo go by removing the book as a factor. Thats the story so far.
And it was all done with the grace of a drunk elephant after hijacking the original premise of hitmen from hell filling revenge commissions and snarking with each other.
that's true, the show does seem to treat IMP more as mercenaries that do anything for money. I feel certan charactor arks have been rushed a bit for the sake of world building. Mainly Fizzarolli in my opinion.
@@SkramDMburp
7:50 Moxxie is just Zim but replace his megalomaniacal need to appease his warlord idols with love for his country girl wife.
God damn it, you nailed why he's my favorite.
Always though blitzo and the tallest looked kinda similar lmao
I thhink you're badly misrading things. Sticking only to what was publicly known as of the time of this vid, we have several points of evidence that Blitz has feelings for Stolis too. In Ep 6 (?) when he's trying to explain his relationship to Stryker, he is *very* defensive about it, and clearly uncomfortable discussing the topic (on-brand for Blitz, who is emotionally stunted too) In "Ozzies", you can hear the naked pain when he tells Stolas that their relationship is transactional. Blitz wants more, but he doesn't feel endidtled to seek it, due to his actions. So he does what he always does--push someone close to him asay b/c showing just how vulnerable and lonely he is would
Finally a smart person on the comments
Completely unrelated to the script, bjt what song is playing at 12:50? It's an absolute BOP!! (Loved hearing your point of view about Stolitz. Because as much as I want to believe in it, the ship and writting is why too much of a mess for anything meaningful to come out of it)
7:20 Maybe I could buy it if Blitz, after being called in too many times, starts to actually self-deprecate himself into believing that a relationship with Stolas is more beneficial and way more fun than actively going against it, and so has been gaslighting himself into believing that the relationship is healthy. Oh, they did do that afterward, so I guess it is fine?
I have a lot of "Why didn't the Eagles fly the Hobbits over Mordor" questions in my head, and I would love for all of them to be answered. Maybe all of the rushed actions are intentional? Maybe this show should be crass and extremely fast because it is in hell and everyone should be suffering? I mean, I would not be surprised if the reason why everyone is the way that they are is to exclusively torture each other. They cannot break their own vicious cycle because of hell's rules and the environment around hell. Therefore there should be a character that directly attempts to intervene, a third party that is not subject to hell's rules and environment that can effortlessly Lupin the 3rd everything. Maybe, I do not know, The StoryTeller (my character) could be that third party?
They could have made all of this content in this episode into a prequel before flashing back to shoving it all in Stolas' face.
Maybe Blitz, who as we know could hypothetically have the character to pull something like this, would dig up Stolas' past to understand Stolas, and then as he finds out about Stolas' past, especially with the help of his coworkers he justifies his behavior of invading Stolas' privacy with "If Stolas won't leave me alone, I need to find a silver bullet to get him to leave me alone." It would have the appropriate approach to emotional baggage, it would be dramatic, and everyone would realize just how sick in the head and how completely lost Blitz is in handling relationships Blitz could have a falling out with his coworkers who each object to Blitz pulling off this crap. Actually moving the plot forward by forcing both Blitz and Stolas to have to give up a lot because they have both messed around with things they knew they should not mess around and yet messed around with anyway, and now the both of them must take responsibility for their actions.
Oh, and Stella. She is basically an anomaly in my calculations, okay, how do I stick her in this equation? Maybe she could try to humiliate Blitz by allowing and egging him on this journey, especially in the first place? Make her the first thing that kicks off everything, and then just make her the constant pusher in making Stolitz into an unhealthy relationship. Make her into a homewrecker who should be taken seriously as a bad person, then make sure that she gets what she deserves by the end and split up Stolas and Blitz. I would not really care about maintaining Stolitz as much as I care about pushing it past its logical extremes in how it should work. I would not mind
Unfortunately for me, I'm a weak-ass sucker for sob stories, so I do sympathize with Stolas' situation. But even I admit that they do rush the Stolitz ship and they don't really develop *why* Stolas likes Blitzo, like as a person. Which I feel like is a larger problem with the show: the pacing of character arcs and fleshing out character motivations.
Like, I think info-dumping Stolas' backstory right after he gets "rejected" by Blitzo does make it so that we understand more of his character, but it also just comes off as a blatant demand for audience sympathy (which they got from me because, again, massive sucker, but even I thought it was an obvious technique and I'm pretty sure you usually don't want your audience to catch onto that when you do it). And it also doesn't really sell Stolitz as a *romantic* ship.
By that I mean, I could buy it as a toxic ship, one in which we're just supposed to be entertained by two messed up people ruining each other's lives because it's fiction and it's entertaining; based on what you just see from the show and interpret both Blitzo's hallucination scene and Stolas' focus episode, it feels like they're clearly using each other to "fix" their own insecurities/emotional baggage or projecting it onto the other rather than caring about each other as actual people (and also the obvious power imbalance). But the show is trying to sell Stolitz as endgame, like we are supposed to root for them to be a "good" couple, and the series goes into it too fast and doesn't develop it enough to make it work. From what the show sets up, I don't think it justifies how they've transitioned from a transactional relationship mixed with personal messy trauma baggage to feeling genuine affection for each other.
I think the best way I can explain it is that the show doesn't try to win over the audience to Stolitz, but caters to the people who already ship it and just want to get to the "good parts" already.
Which I feel like explains a lot of the show's problems with its characters in that it expects the audience to already love its premise and characters, so it doesn't try to actually develop them until it's time for a Big Emotional Scene and they just speed run the whole thing, or it just doesn't period (I can see why Moxxie loves Millie, but I still don't get what Millie sees in Moxie for her to choose him over literally anybody else, but they're married and so Wholesome and we just have to love them for that so I guess it doesn't fucking matter).
I feel like the show doesn't really depict natural growth of its characters and their relationships but just jump between major moments in their arcs and expect the audience to fill in the blanks. Which... okay. I think I can accept that mainly because this is an indie animation and they probably want to focus on getting the story out there at a reasonable pace instead of making followers of the show wait months or years for an episode only for it to develop an ongoing arc at a snail's pace.
Something I'll address or explain in better detail for the Season 2 retrospective is that Viv and her writing crew do a lot is something you should only reserve for idea journalling. I've had several instances of getting an idea for one of my own projects that's intended to take place further down the line but I haven't written up to that point yet so I'll write it out in full in a separate word document and save it as a draft, then go back and work on where I was. If the idea still holds up when I catch up to it, it can stay and I'd just have to tweak some things. If it doesn't, I may keep the doc around for records but it doesn't get anywhere near the final product, plus all this assumes I'm writing with progress in mind without any fluff that doesn't add to anything or isn't breather stuff. What Vivzie and her writers are doing is dumping all "the good stuff" in their own separate documents and forgetting to write up to that point and when it unsurprisingly doesn't go well, they have to mental gymnastics their way to justifying it and dumping some half-baked off screen explanation in bonus content that only the hardcore fans care about. Plus it just gives off the impression of making crew fanfiction canon; no one likes canonized fanfiction (note: some fanfics are actually pretty good and can be on par with their source material, there's just way more garbage out there that gives fanfiction its reviled status)
Cool video though I do wonder what’s your thoughts on Sonally since you said you didn’t like that ship either. I’m on the opposite side of that line but I would like to hear ya opinion
1:10 THANK YOU!!! Oh my God, you have no idea how much I wish other people would agree with that sentiment! I am the only person in my friend group who thinks that. The others all make excuses for the series taking the direction it did.
1:46 kinda like that for me except it was my girlfriend lmao
I just don’t understand how nobody saw this coming? It was obvious Stolitz would be endgame. It was obvious the story would shift from them being a murder for hire company to actual plot and backstory stuff. I literally don’t understand why everyone keeps complaining about this when it was so obvious from the beginning that it would happen.
No actually, cause Viv said she rewrote it to make stolas not a villain and because she liked the instagrams and fanfiction, decided to turn it romantic when it’s never meant to be
@@OpalGemstone33She rewrote after the pilot. Not like it was in the middle of the show lol. And it was for the better
While I do like the show I agree that the pacing issues definitely messes with it overall and with Hazbin Hotel out I have noticed the same issue. I feel like the show doesn't have time to breathe and actually explore the plot
my problem with it is that pilot established that blitz fucked stolas just to steal his portal book
and now he has to do jobs for stolas or return the book AND stolas is DTF
surprise surprise everything went sideawys they are openly fucking
yay
potential ruined
Came for the subject matter, stayed for the ranting and profanities. Subbed.
I will keep on saying it, but having trauma and having mental illnesses does is not a excuse to not be a shitty person, get therapy if it's that bad
It pisses me off even more knowing Vivzie said she was inspired by Bojack Horseman. One moral of that show says having a shitty childhood does not mean you have to be a shitty adult. HOW DID SHE MISS THE POINT THIS BADLY?
It especially gets bungled when you take that theme and apply it to Hell, the literal realm of sinners and evil. I'll address it in the Season 2 retrospective but if you can't use your setting to its advantage, don't use that setting. Not even for aesthetic reasons because it'll make it worse.
That double-edged sword of making cartoons with a classical emo edge is that you do all the problematic things you typically see in emo artwork, mainly abuse dressed up as sincere romance.
The music is way too loud
Stolitz deserved better treatment than this
And people have any doubts Hazbin won't be the same?
I already agreed and love this video but adding the Gorillaz example put the icing on the cake as a fan of Gorillaz since the beginning.
Wow....really took a lot of pot shots at me didn't ya?? I all seriousness though, yes you do have a lot of good points. This show is a bit of a mess, but looking for the needed lore is what it thrives off of. Vivzie's works are not fully story based, they're character based. It's what she does. Hence why the best way to understand them, is character analysis and rewatching for background storytelling. Idk, u just do what u want, and with Hazbin coming out this summer, we'll have to see.
I think with a major studio having a hand in Hazbin it'll kind of keep things in check but we'll see.
@@MagmaPaint still vivienne's story and dream to tell though. Also, there is a confirmed hierarchy by viv out there that has been referred to in the background
Think about what u just said. The Polt/Story is always important when writing anything. And yet constantly focuses on her bland characters who are just walking tropes.
@@erikbihari3625 I have and its so much better then what Viv made as she got jealous of it from what I heard. In that time period its set in makes sense as in that time period gangs and criminals ran rampant while in Helluva its supposedly set in modern times where gangs arent nowhere near as big as they in like the 1920s and 30s.
12:06 because of the chains it's more implied he feels trapped with stolas
I started watching Helluvaboss because I thought the humor was entertaining and the art was cool so when they started focusing on the romance I just couldn’t anymore 😭 pleaaasee where are the dick jokes where has the murder gone :( WAAAHHH
I have to ask why you hate Sonally, but overall the video is spot on.
Ten years ago I would have said the infamous slap from Issue 134. Currently, yeah, the slap factors into that but only as the final nail in the coffin. The majority of why I hate this ship is that Sally has garnered a status of being a fan and writer favorite to the point that her flaws have been eventually downplayed into erasure, more often than not at the cost of other characters (or even bastardization like in the case of Antoine in Season 2 of SatAM) and when trying to develop the relationship with Sonic, there's a difference between changing for someone out of caring for them and changing for someone and the changing party breaking consistency with a core aspect of their character. I know that Amy saw so much flanderization bordering on character assassination in Sonic X to the point of coloring audience perception, but she summed it up perfectly and in line with official presentation notes: Sonic is like the wind, wild and free. He belongs to no one. And in all other iterations, Sonic has shown preference for those who have proven themselves able to keep up with him. If the most flanderized version of a character that also crushes on Sonic can understand this and the romance-coded or romance endgame character can't even when written consistently, that's a problem.
@@MagmaPaint I agree the comics ruined Sally, which is why my preference for Sonally only goes as far as SatAM primarily as she still was a proper character then. Outside of that, comic-wise, my preferred ship is Soniona as she was a good character before Flynn assassinated her character.
@@erikbihari3625 Sonic x Fiona Fox Basically what was a really, really good Sonic ship before Ian Flynn came in and assassinated her character by having her pull a full 180 and become a irredeemable villain.
The video was really good until the Gorillaz part, I don't really understand the parallel you're trying to make to that show and especially the "murdock is a better father figure" line knowing how much he abused 2D in the past was a bit of an odd thing to say. There are probably much better shows to refer to than the Gorillaz' lore.
That being said, totally agree with you on blitz and stolas' weird ship. It has always seemed odd to me how people generally are so sensitive to abusive/toxic/red-flag behaviors in real life but at the same time ship the f*ck out of fictional characters that do the exact same things. They both have so many issues, how can people possibly think they can have a healthy relationship together? And the worst of all is this feeling that I get from the show that their relationship will get some kind of 'redemption arc' eventually. I'm very curious to how viv will let their dynamic grow and how she will conclude it, as it will have a great impact to how the show will be perceived as a whole.
Murdoc's the father figure to Noodle, not to 2D. Noodle in this case is the Octavia figure.
Anyone else think Magma Paint’s avatar is potential waifu material?
Calm down there, buddy, I'm either asexual or demisexual.
@@MagmaPaint Didn’t know that. Also it was a joke.
this is why i dont really like vivs writing
While i like a few of the characters, the show would do greatly if vivziepop would just take criticism and improve on the show. At the end of the day prideful creators make bad showrunners.
I certainly don't condone the jackasses that spew legitimate harassment at the crew--seriously, FUCK these people--but Vivzie actually lumping people giving genuine criticism about her show in the same bucket as the harassers really does not help her case. The three things she could absolutely use are 1) a continuity writer because lord knows how inconsistent she is, 2) more "no men" on her team to keep her reined in and step in and shut down ideas that will only be detrimental to her projects, and 3) a long, LONG break from social media because she keeps making herself look dumb responding to people.
@MagmaPaint agreed. Her fans also present a problem. Now, since she's hailed as "the future of modern animation." More specifically, indie animation. They take her work as gospel to certain points.
@@jaredgarcia8638Viv definitely is not especially with the juvenile and legit axx writing & logic of her shows, Edgerunners even shows that the episodes & their length given in HH is all on her and her team, 20+ minutes with 8 Episodes is plenty to do alot and it needed restructured and have things cut out like the excess time in Heavan, the War and characters like Carmilla.
I do love season 2
True some of the couples can questionable but still great season. Not great as season one but still great.
I wanted to watch and hear what you had to say, but the loud rbty tone you used has made me decide to click off
Can u like ...not scream 24/7
yeah I can't really take a review or essay too seriously when they're clearly screaming in an emotional upset about a ship they dislike. I can't agree on much of your points when I enjoy the tone shifts from comedy to serious, and I enjoy watching unhealthy people change and peel back layers slowly. Its engaging, far more so than only "positive" relationships. Which we have several awesome examples of with Fizz/Ozzie & Moxxie/Millie. Let character driven stories be messy, like the characters and like MOST humans.
Theres too many points that come across as moralistic grandiosity to take the screeching seriously. And we have too many other reviews with calm rational presentation of media literacy that is sorely lacking here. If you have a show from the start and the main ships....maybe save your mental health and don't hate watch it.
@@brigade7678 then don't watch their video.
2:36-Are you going to talk about why Dan X Sam, Sonic X Sally and 2d X Noodle and why you think they suck?
Don't hold your breath
And I said 2Doc, though all Gorillaz ships are a tall glass of NOPE
@@MagmaPaint Sorry about the 2d X Noodle and 2Doc mix up.
I don't think 2Doc needs explanation on why it's horrible/ that goes for every Gorillaz ship
You do know, this isnt a professional production, right? Its indie, so for me at least, same level of expectation as fanfic
And that puts it above criticism how?
@@MagmaPaint ah, putting words in my mouth. I did not say, nor even imply such. Merely implying it deserves a softer hand, and the mere fact that it's as good as it is, is extremely impressive. Helluva boss is not competing with professional shit, it's competition is Charlie the unicorn and llamas with hats, like, there's a baseline of respect it deserves
@@moeheil8839 That still doesnt excuse immature writing and the many other issues.
@@artistanthony1007 uh, no, it does
As an aspiring writer, these videos really help me realize my errors. I have a character who has a similar relationship to Stolas and his wife, but upon seeing this video dissect those two really made me realize my errors in my own familial trauma guiding my story beyond what was real and just a coping mechanism. This was a very enlightening video.
Someone sounds like a jelly peacock 🦚
Ooh, equating me to Stella, never heard that one before. How about stop gaslighting me that this ship is healthy and assuming I'm rooting for the sheet of paper pretending to be an actual villainous force.
@@MagmaPaint would you prefer the Adam lute ship instead.
@@colinbrown3170 No idea what that is and I don't care. Give me a ship with actual chemistry and wasn't made just for the fujoshis to cream their coulottes over or give me ass kicking demons like the pilot advertised.
@@MagmaPaint Ya know Vivzie pop being a Fujo might explain why she’s not very good at writing women despite being one 😂
@@MILDMONSTER1234 you're calling a queer woman a fujoshi? Sus
Please tell me you're over the age of twelve because a) you shouldn't be watching if you're under age and b) it would explain why it's making my ears bleed to hear you talk. Can you SCREECH any higher?!
Well excuse me for growing up in a mentally abusive home that makes me talk with a child voice at 28
@@MagmaPaint weird way to weaponize trauma dude.
@@brigade7678 why are you even watching their video if you're gonna be a viv bootlicker.
@@brigade7678You say that like I have any control over how I sound. I don't choose to put that kind of voice on, it's involuntary and happens whenever I go on a rant. Volume control doesn't come naturally to me either, I have to train myself to watch how loud I talk because I don't talk all that much in meat space and regularly being somewhere where loud or continuous sounds are in the background doesn't help.