Dual Membrane planar magnetic speaker - Part 7 Damping and a tune
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- Well i am still trying to find the best damping method. and its harder then normal. adding felt in between will damp to much (and uneven) i now tried fabric, it damps. but slightly to little.
anyhow i play a tune with normal instruments since requested. i used binaural mics since they pick up the low end the way it is in my room. so use headphones or it might sound to much roomy.
Song played : Anonymous , Grare : Paris Istanbul - Shangai:i. Nihavent
Never heard of this but sounds rather nice :)
DIRECT TO THE SONG GO HERE: • Dual Membrane planar m...
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High mass , a strong spring and low acoustic loading leads to a high Q. The easiest variable to change would be the panel tension. Look at narrowing the foil traces to lower the mass if. I guess you just look at the power handling of the coil to see if a narrow trace will still handle the power. Another great video. I'm working on a phono preamp today, but I'm way too disorganized to make a video. You're amazing.
well i was mostly thinking about , larger foil higher tension, it wont solve the resonance. but it performs better overall.. i still ned to think of damping then.... :(
A mass affects only Fs and SPL. Q is about an energy dissipation, and a “strong spring” sure rises it up. However “low acoustic loading” means a weaker spring, so reduces Q.
Tried for some years ago to mount a soft rubber along the side of the woofer under the membrane and over the membrane, that took away booming effect from the woofer membrane and gave a much more clear and controlled bas
It's an option in the end the main resonance remains the main resonance :) and the peak is there :(
Yes and I lowered that I believe
Sounds beautuful! The difference when you leaned forward was huge; the bass dropped considerably, but the soundstage became way more enveloping.
I do not have a place to listen to this kind of loudspeaker, but I’m very impressed by what you’re doing!
yes i agree. the insane room gain gets bigger when i move towards the wall. as well as leaning forward makes the sound more direct and having comb filtering at different frequencies then sitting against the wall.. i might rotate my setup for a change to avoid it somewhat. in the future , room gain remains an issue though :(
Sounds well balanced and transparent. Like your song too for testing! This panel is more bang for the buck than a panel that is 3 times the cost.
haha im not sure about the costs :) all depends on what i ask ;) but well it is a cheaper method , at the cost of efficiency :)
Hi Joppe! I was waiting for your new video! :) These are sounding beautifully! ;)
I've made some push-pull magnetostatic speakers, this design is the most ideal I think, but I know very well, that the construction has to be very strong...
I was thinking on a solution about the linear/symmetric magnetic field, and you mentioned that you don't wanna use twice the amount of magnets!
If you remove the north pole magnets from a single sided magnet circuit behind the membrane, and place these in front of the membrane facing north pole, between the south pole magnets you will have a north pole, on the other side of the membrane! The direction of the flux not will be perfectly sideways, but it is true at the single sided magnetic circuit too! But, the flux will be symmetric in +- direction!
Maybe a wooden frame for the magnets is enough, at this design, the front and the back magnets will attracting each other a bit, and not repelling strongly, as the "normal" push-pull design!
Maybe a FEMM-simulation can tell, if perforated steel or the wooden frame is the better in this case (the steel can "steal" from the useful magnetic flux)! ;)
you mean alternating the magnets ? i believe a few companies done that , but the field will more or less also be not straight forward. but a bit sideways :) there is no doubt a true PP contraption would be better then these, more output slightly more even and same xmax. and lower resonance :) to name 3 then costs area times 3 as well. it all depends. i mean if you would make high ends speakers and sell them market price 6K i would not mind going PP no problem :) for now i tend to make things as cheap as possible and hopefully get more out of it then just trowing money at it :) i mean if you get a good return on it. why not :)
@@joppepeelen I mean, that behind the membrane, there are only south poles facing to it. On the front magnet structure only north poles are facing to the membrane. The front magnets are between the rear magnets.
I try to draw it here:
Front S S
magnets N N
Membrane ----*-----*-----*------*---
Rear S S S
magnets N N N
Leuk te zien hoe je je ervaringen en tests deelt. Dit lijkt me wel goede muziek om de luidsprekers te testen. Ik hou zelf erg van slechts een beperkt aantal instrumenten waarbij niet heel veel is geknutseld aan de opname. Ik blijf het altijd verwonderlijk vinden dat we als mensen in staat zijn een reproductie te maken waarbij de werkelijkheid wordt benaderd. Ik zag laatst een interview met de uitvinder van de magnepans die zijn eigen luidsprekers wel aardig vond, maar nog lang niet de werkelijkheid konden benaderen volgens hem. Hij maakte dan wel de vergelijking met een groot live orkest. Ik ben wel benieuwd wat het witte apparaat is boven op al de apparatuur.
haha ja leuk om te horen , ja dat rare apparaat is een short trow beamer uit 2012 :) toevallig gekregen anders ging het de container in :) maar ik dacht dat is toch leuk ik wil namelijk geen tv, wellicht later eens een kopen met iets hogere reolutie. vind het fijn om het uit te kunnen zetten en dan heb je gerwoon muur :)
The king of planar magnetics. ja ik had dat interview ook gezien, hij vind/vond dat het wel aardig was maar het komst niet in de buurt. wellicht gaat dat ook nooit gebeuren ben ik bang :(
always great content, also the song is really good
thanks, its not something i would listen to to often, but since people wanted some instruments i thought decent pick :)
This is nice, but I still think you should try a large surface area dipole bass with normal drivers as a bottom end. H-frame or M-frame alternatives with two drivers per side (one back-side and one front-side facing towards you) are both very capable and easy solutions... 10- or 12-inch woofers of good quality aren't that expensive if you go with brands like SB Audience or GRS.
For larger panels (I've had both planars and RD-75's) that solution is what I ended up with after experimenting with thousands of euros and hundreds of hours of playing around with all kinds of both very "standard" and very strange and experimental solutions. Two push-pull configured parallel dipole frame pro drivers per side next to the tall Bohlender-Graebener's.
well i dont agree :) nothing wrong with open baffle bass from woofers :) but if i can i rahter be able to do all. and you can add a woofer if you like :)
@@joppepeelen Still waiting for two big stacks of 8 inch woofers you've got as dipole towers on both sides 😊
Would like to hear it in person..Sounds very promising. I live near the Afsluitidijk;-)
kunt gerust eens langs op de koffie!, op facebook, indien je dat hebt heet ik het zelfde :) en anders een google search weg :)
I do not really care what classical subwoofer would outperform planar panels.
I care about transparency and speed.For high volume i have headphones. (also planars :D )
I really liked the music, do you have a link to the original recording?
I have been using cling film to enhance the midrange and hf on my ply dml panels.
This usually covers about 6inches or so of the exciter area, and used as a passive radiator .
You have made me think, maybe I should try to cover the whole panel area at the front or mabe at the back and see what happens.
It will probably just vibrate out of control when the volume is turned up.
There are old patents of large flexible panels being driven by cone drivers using air pressure.
Your panels are Always a joy to listen to , thanks.
Steve.
thanks, the song title is in the description, i dont know about using the same as DML, the principle is pretty different.
Thanks.
I did not realise that , Grate paris Istanbul, was the ground of musicians.
Lots of good music on that site.
Dml is only similar ish in the low end.
Steve.
Have you tried extending the baffle backwards to help separate the front and rear wave? Move the baffle step to the resonate frequency?
thats an option to get more low end for sure, moving baffle step to res would becomes a way to huge baffle @ 40-50 hz
When one membrane is further from the magnet the nonlinear effects from the material are stronger but since the air couples it to the other membrane that's near the magnet that lowers distortion, was that correct? I probably got it wrong
well the idea is , you got 2 foils one will be away from the magnet at high excusion, while thenother gets closer to the magnet. and sort of drives the other one along. that was the whole idea. and seeing then 2e order distortionj been lower, that part works to some extend. another reason why it might be interesting is.. having higher excusion possible with a single ended magnet structure.. because of its more linear behaviour. it will be inefficient.. but not so much possible int he regular single ended versions since the foils moves way to far from the magnet.. at least thats the idea behind all of this :)
in short inefficient high excursion and cheaper :)
@@joppepeelen ok
@@oraz. oh i forgot more linear :)
is your tweeter similar to bayz audio
No idea never heard of it
its more like a old carver planar tweeter
It is damp because there is water
It is damped because it is less resonant.
Sorry, I can't be helped. I've been a youtube commenter for too long and pedantism embeded itself in my DNA
i am not known for typing correctly :) so i might said damp as in water... who knows :) but its not what i meant.