Dial Combination Safe Lock vs Digital Electronic Lock with Dye the Safe Guy
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- čas přidán 5. 10. 2011
- www.safeandvaultstore.com
Hi, Dye the Safe Guy here to talk about dial combination locks vs electronic locks. Everyday we get calls from people asking us, which one should I choose? Either a dial combination lock as you see here or a digital electronic lock with a keypad.
The purpose of this video is to explain the pros and cons of each lock and let you make up your own mind. First, the pros of a digital electronic lock are that its quick. You can get into it a little faster. You save about a minute. It also has larger numbers as opposed to the dial numbers which are here in a spy-proof dial. Difficult to see if you are elderly or have vision problems.
Another advantage of a digital lock is that you can change the combination yourself. You don't need to call a technician in to have it changed. On a dial combination lock its going to cost you anywhere $60.00 to $80.00 if you take the door of the safe in. Or if its a large safe and you have to have a technician come out, then it will cost you anywhere from $100.00 to $130.00 to have a technician come on site and change the combination.
One of the great advantages of dial combination lock is this technology is over 175 years old. It works every time all the time. You don't have to change any batteries. Where on a digital lock, you will have to replace the batteries every year or so depending on use. And there are failure points on a digital lock, let me explain that next.
If a digital lock fails, and the keypad is defective, a safe technician can replace the keypad. However, on the backside inside the lock is a circuit board where your combination is stored in a non volatile memory chip. If the connector here fails behind the steel door, or the connector fails anywhere where the technician can't get to it, then they're going to have to drill the safe open and its going to cost you somewhere in the $300-$450 range to get into your safe.
I'm not telling you about this to scare you, both locks are very reliable, however, please understand if you need the most reliable lock a dial combination lock is going to be your best choice. There is a small failure rate on digital locks but they are electronic and someday they will fail.
With every digital electronic lock there are instructions on how you can change the combination. So this is an advantage. There is no added cost to you. It's very simple and there is only 6 numbers.
One of the questions I get asked is about memorizing the numbers for a dial combination lock and how difficult it can be. Think back to when you were in school and you got your first lock on your locker. The first two weeks it took a long time to dial that open. However toward the end of the school year you were spinning that dial and opening that lock really quickly. It's the same thing with a dial combination lock. Once you practice it 15-20 times you will be going just fine and you will get it open almost as quickly as a digital electronic lock. The good thing to remember is that if you need the best reliably a dial combination lock is the way to go. But if you're not concerned about that tiny tiny fraction of percent of less reliability, a digital electronic lock is your best choice. Either way it's not a bad choice. You have to make that decision on your own.
If you have any questions about which lock to choose, please give me a call, Dye the Safe Guy or any of the safe consultants that work for us. Thanks for listening.
Call us 1-800-207-2259 with any questions.
A friend of mine has a large gun safe with electronic combination and the solenoid failed, he was getting ready to drill it. I took a hard rubber mallet and started to strike the door near the solenoid and at the same time pushed down and released the handle, I quickly developed a rhythm and within thirty seconds the door handle clicked and it opened.
The entire safe, no matter how robustly built, is prevented from opening by a tiny solenoid pin held in place by a very weak spring. By hitting the door with the rubber mallet I set up vibrations that when properly timed with the handle movement allowed me to open the safe.
We ended up exchanging this model for the slimmer version czcams.com/users/postUgkx0jZ_lGlDVJhDnmagEU8gn47cmfPNlLQU because it was too wide for the only door trim area that made sense to mount it on. However, we should have just noted the dimensions prior to purchasing. Otherwise, we love the doorbell. It works perfectly, and the video is very clear, even at night.
Holey smokes a safe salesman that has a correct video. Thank you for not covering up the faults of the E-lock and just trying to upsale. Congrats to you DYE the safe guy I (the Locksmith) agree with what you have said.
Safe Lock - Mechanical Dial VS. Electronic Keypad
This is a very objective and factual comparison....thank you for your professionalism in your approach!
Excellent video! I have been a locksmith & safe tech. for 24 years now and every word of what Dye said is true however I feel digital locks fail more then he is suggesting. I have digital safe locks fail on a regular basis and usually only thing to do is drill the safe open. Although rare, even when a mechanical lock fails I can usually get the safe open without drilling. More common then any failure is the user forgetting the combo or entering/dialing wrong.
Thanks for the information. I was recently debating about changing our amsec dial combination lock to a digital lock (mainly to make it easier for my wife), but there's something about a mechanical lock that I have always found appealing. It feels a little more personal maybe. So I think we will stick with the tried and true system. And my wife is ok with that too. :-)
Thank you for confirming my concerns about digital locks. It's that little bit of anxiety that worries me...the fact that eventually that safe is not going to open..and when it doesn't open is probably when you need it it the most. However, I can probably live with it as the digital lock will probably last for decades.
What an excellent video; well explained, short and to the point. Well done. I have a question: Is a two-key safe as secure as dial lock?
Keep in mind, the cost all depends on the level of security of the safe. The cost of $400.00 is pretty normal expense to open the safe (we drill open safes all the time here in our showroom). The safe is not completely ruined if the safe technician is a good one. Most can drill open the safe and repair it to be like new so that you don't have to replace the safe.
How to choose a Gun safe lock Dial vs keypad. Good info here Dye the safe guy!
Gun Safe Lock Electronic VS Combination Dial
Ft. Knox now sells safes with both E-lock and a dial on the door. So you have the ease of the keypad, but if it fails, you can get in with the dial and it's non issue.
Great Video and the info I wanted to hear. I just had the electronic lock replaced on my safe with the "old fashion" dial lock. Electronics are sure reliable but when they quit the quit. inside the lock i believe there is some other electrical component that has to work also and that is a failure point. I truly loved the convienence of the electronic lock, it was nice. But I have no trouble dialing numbers when I need too.
Lisa Johnson i need to replace my digital too....with a manual. Did you do it yourself? If not, who did it for you?
The safe was still under warranty and the repair was to install the mechanical dial lock so a locksmith came out to do it. But it was a very simple and straight forward process and could be easily done with simple tools. Now it's been four years since I had this done and I believe the new lock came with the "key" to change the combination to anything I wanted and I still have that key. So you can buy a new lock and look at the process of changing it and if it's something you feel comfortable with then I would do it. I would just try it manytimes before you finally close the door and lock it just in case.
I wish I had seen this earlier. I just bought a Liberty from a reputable dealer locally, and he didn't even bring this up. I am now locked out of my safe as the electronic lock has failed, and Liberty is taking forever to send someone out. He is right. Just buy a dial if you keep things inside you have to get to often.
I now open my dial, 3 wheel, group 2 lock in 8 seconds timed, its about the same as a digital. It's possible and not that difficult.
In researching safes, both fire and burglar, mechanical and electronic, I came across a video where the locksmith demonstrated opening up a consumer electronic safe with a magnet.
My recommendation: Buy from a locksmith and discuss your needs and the purpose of the safe.
It doesn't matter if you can bolt the safe to the floor if a burglar can use a strong magnet to open the safe.
In terms of security are the equivalent to one another? (Group 2 dial and up)
He said it saves you about a minute. A minute in a security situation is a lifetime. I keep my guns locked up because I have kids and I have tested both locks. My safe originally had a combination lock. With the combination lock I actually had a time I was under pressure to retrieve a rifle and it took me 3 tries to get it open why? Because I was in a panic. Normally I'd get it open fairly quickly first try, but I also wasn't tense and in a hurry. After that run in i took the lock off and replaced it with a digital lock. Now I can get into my safe in seconds. I haven't had to test it under pressure yet but I already know I want have to go through that feeling again of needing something in a hurry and can't get it.
I have a Cannon Safari safe with an electronic lock and i can't open it and i've changed the batteries.I wish i had bought a safe with a dial lock.
Both are rated the same security wise. I would say electronic locks might be a little bit better though considering most have a "lock out" function. This means that if they input the wrong code 3 times, it will lock them out for 5-10 minutes depending on the lock. This would take them a long time to "guess" the combination. (trying to guess birthday dates, phone numbers etc) I would recommend not using numbers people can easily guess.
My electronic Keypad failed. It was after years of daily use, but it did fail. Constant pressing caused the number 9 on the pad to stop working. Normally when you enter your 6 digit code on each press a beep is heard. That suddenly stopped working just for my number 9, and unfortunately the combination code I had chosen included a number 9. The safe could not be opened. We had a lot of time-lockouts before we figured it wasn't just a flat battery. $300+ in repairs.
I have been using the rather small "File Folder" style firesafe. Lately I have become concerned about how effective these fire safes actually are. I use mine to store paper work, Hard drives, and spare key fobs to my car. Will these safes actually protect from a fire. Lets say there was a fire. Will my belonging still be secure inside? This Honeywell latch looks to be made of some sort of hard plastic which would mean the safe would be wide open after a fire. I do not need a large capacity safe but what would you recommend?
I'll stick with a combination lock. Thanks for the video.
I've had a digital lock on my stores safe more than 15 years and it's never had issues.
If you are holding against a real emergency, how does the digital lock respond to an EMP. In a hopefully never to happen event like this, how would you gain access to the safe. I assume this also applies to print recognition or any other electronic device.
I have the combination to my safe but I still need to change it. I have brain cancer and I had to let someone else open my safe thinking that I could change the combination but I don't know how and I can't find any information about it. It's a digital Gardall safe.
im 61 and still have my jr high school combo lock, still using it
I just need to know if Gardall safes are reliable at preventing a burglar from opening it. About to buy one tomorrow. A Gardall H2 safe with a dial
How can I change the dial combination myself?
How can I be sure that i'm the only one who knows it?
from what you said i can understand that even a dial combination lock can and will fail if not properly maintained.
so i don't see how they are so much more superior to the electronic ones, as you say.
emp would melt the electronic ones
GREAT!
even worse, the push against lead in solder has caused a huge increase in the incident of "tin whiskers". Tin crystals grow in a few short months or years and usually do irreparable damage once they short out a trace or component. I'm a dial guy all the way
Damn it. Wish I had known this before I ordered a safe just a few days ago.
What did you get, a digital lock?
M P - Yes I did. Safe Is being delivered Wednesday of next week so it too late to change. It’s already shipped. I only went digital because of the convenience, but had I known or seen this video before that I’d go with the dial instead.
ya and if you have curious kids in the house , they may push and break the plastic buttons, you wont be able to get in for a week before a your part is replaced
Question. Do the keypad safes have a key backup?
Yes they do
Take his advice go dial, my 6
yo esl10 amsec digital lock is dead. Now I have no access, no passports no cash. I get to drop $ 450 on drilling my box. Lovely.
what about Fire? a Save with a Key or Dail Combination Lock u can still open - but doesn't the Electronic melt?
can you replace the Keypad after a Fire without drilling assuming the electronic inside is still intact?
Yes, after a fire, the combo has melted and the wires are toast. What then?
Don't go for a digital lock. I got a Fort Knox safe w/ one and the lock digital lock doesn't work.
Go for the dial one.
@beswick1111 the dial on my safe at work is dated 1969. I know it's never been serviced.
Dial all the way, electronic is pretty and sleek but it’s inconvenient when the battery dies after a year of it sitting around.
how would the E locks hold up through a fire? would it just be a melted mess?
Yes, the electronic locks would melt in a fire, but so would a dial combination lock. Either way, you would need to have the safe drilled open to get access to your contents.
I have a E-lock on my safe and it has failed and then something inside went wrong and now the thing does not work right. I will now go out and buy a larger safe with a Combo lock so I don't have to go through this again. I will not take a chance on a E-lock for at least 10 more years when the Tech has gotten way better!
For a few hundred bucks, if you take the safe door in, they will change the lock to a mechanical lock.
David DeCourcey when you say “take the safe door in”.....where are you referring to take it to?
Wouldnt it be funny if you could just replace the digital dialpad with your own and open the safe with your dialpads combination? I know he said the combo is stored within the safe body but of all the safe makers there had to be an issue of this.
Or go redundant locks and get both in case one fails.
Don't they make safes with both and are they better?
They do make a "Redundant Lock" which is both the dial and the digital lock together. You use your digital lock as your everyday lock and if something happens to it, you can use the dial to get in your safe. Companies such as Lagard, AMSEC, Securam all make this type of lock. If you really want a digital lock but are worried about the reliability, I would recommend a Redundant Lock.
Which is easier to crack, an electronic one or a dial one?
MrMilanoLau unless you buy a really expensive safe someone could simply use a torch or grinder to open the safe by force both electronic and dial are equally difficult to crack without leaving any trace of entry. method 1 is to use a computer to try all the possible electronic combinations of the electronic safe yes it can be done but the average safe isn't worth the effort and many electronic safes can prevent such an attack by shutting down after a few wrong tries method 2 for combo lock you have to either listen to it with a stethoscope and find the combination or try every possible combination
I agree with you that he isn't telling the truth. My safe did in fact cost me about $1500.00 but if the electronics fail I have a key to open it. The location of where to put the key should that happen is known only to me, and anyone else that owns this model safe. I doubt they know where I live.
Which one is easier to crack? Just read a blog how a guy forgot his code. For the fun of it he was able hook up a few wires to his laptop and have it automatically try combinations. After 5 days his laptop emailed him with s successful combo!
And how many "professional dial manipulators" are there in the world, a hand-full? Five, ten? Which would have to be physically present to crack it. Compare that to how many technicians have access to that factory reset database... how many of these guys are around, thousands upon thousands? When once one of these technicians leak the codes to anyone with an IQ > 80, this person too could then crack the lock with zero training. Then what about your average hacker or technically geared person able to interface his computer with the lock?... how many of these guys are around?
Numbers wise, as in reference to people able to crack one type lock or the other, its clear the E-Lock is much less safe imho.
I also wouldn't be surprised if big brother backdoored all these E-Locks like other stuff... I wouldn't be surprised that every PD in the country has access to these reset codes.
*****
I think it comes down to who are you trying to protect yourself from. Here's my personal logic; Most people (myself included) are not interesting enough to attract any attention from people with serious safe skills, My biggest concerns are the high school kids, local drug addicts or the daytime crew from Miami. These guys want to get in and out and I believe most will just focus their attention on easier targets when they encounter a big heavy safe, especially if the house alarm is sounding. If you're home when they come in and they threaten you get you to open the safe, then it really doesn't matter what kind of lock you have. If you're interesting enough to draw attention from any state sponsored agency, you might slow them down a little but they're going to remove you from the picture somehow and then get in to it eventually. That leaves everyone else in the middle; people with big enough collections of valuables to attract attention from professional thieves. The top 1%. That's so far outside my personal income bracket that it's not even a consideration. ;)
Or use a few Dollars and buy a change key for your mechanical lock and learn how to use it. It's not exactly rocket science. But you should after setting it verify that lock still opens if dialing a little to either side of the number depending on it's margin specification. Again not rocket science. I'm looking for a safe my self and I'll go with a mechanical lock - and a change key. I don't want some random guy to know my combo.
You take off the back, line up the dials, replace the cover, insert the change key and try again
he reminds me of someone in the 1970 movie catch 22
If I have a safe with a digital keypad, can it be replaced with a dial?
i just bought a safe and had them replace the electronic lock out to a manual dial lock, and im glad i did
What is the failure rate??
Failure rate for any electronics will vary greatly not only based on their design and construction, but also by region and use case. For example, I would expect a much higher failure rate for electronics in south Florida garages near the water where it's frequently over 100 degrees, 95% humidity and with a salt air breeze, than in an air conditioned bedroom in Arizona where it's dry and cool 24/7. I picked 2 drastically different environments to make the point, but you get the idea.
are key locks reliable?
Key locks are very reliable so long as your definition of reliable is something that works when asked. If you're asking if they are secure, different key lock designs have differing resistance/difficulty to lockpicking. The reason why so many safes utilize combinations/codes is keys can be found and/or taken by someone that wants illegitimate access to the safe. In contrast, the combination/code for the safe only exists in your head (ideally), which is a difficult place for thieves to nab things.
This safe can be opened by a professional in short order REGARDLESS of the type of lock fitted. It doesn't matter if the electronics fail at all. And unlike some people on here have said, it doesn't ruin the safe either
BTW, for those who are scared of trusting the electronics, the electronic lock is removeable/replaceable by the user from the outside and without the code - it's JUST a front end interface. Even the batteries can be replaced without opening the safe
so... y'know... quit whining
The problem with electronic locks is that they have circuit boards and other electronics in them. Just like your cell phone, it will fail someday. They cannot last forever. A well serviced dial combination lock can last forever. We have some locks that still work that are over 100 years old.
which one is better against attacks ?
Combination lock.
If there were a CME (Coronal Mass Ejection) or an EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse), A Dial Combination Lock will still work and open when you need . Where as a Digital Electronic Lock, made by our good friends the Chinese and produced for about $3.00 will most likely stay locked forever.
I initially was going to purchase a digital lock, but then changed my mind as I thought back on Murphy’s law.
It’s better to spin the dial then to get locked out and get robbed by a lock smith AND possibly ruining your safe.
Electronic locks can fail even though some last 21 years or more. Do you think in another 20 years your lock will still be working? All we are saying is that they WILL fail someday and it's better to go with something that when maintained, is 100% reliable.
$130.00 to put in a change in back ?
An important topic not covered here is vulnerability.
An emp will make access to your safe impossible
As to which is better, I think we should ask the real experts, i.e. thieves.
Redundant electronics would be nice
It's better for a redundant system (whatever it is) to function differently than the primary system. The idea redundancy to an electronic system is a mechanical one. In the off chance that a bolt of lightning should strike the safe and fry the electronics both primary and redundant electronic locks would be destroyed but if the redundancy was mechanical in nature it would not be fried like the primary lock.
EMP + electronic lock = your screwed. Not so with a manual dial.
Three words: EMP safe lock
@@killer2600 EMP isn't a word, it's an acronym for 3 words.
It's an acroword, sound it out with me - emp. Same with NIST and NASA. :D
There's 2 kinds of electronic locks, those that have failed & those tat are about to!
It surely will not be a bad idea to have a little money stashed in a safe just in case our wonderful government shuts down like they did in Greece today. A dial safe is the ONLY way I would go.
Lol $60-80 to change a combo. I can do that myself for free. I have the tool and knowledge on how to do that
You forgot that dial combination locks are unsafer than they seem because of tolerances. A bit to the right or the left, and the lock will open, something that dramatically reduces combinations. And if the lock is built without that tolerance, it will be more expensive and will take more time to open. And in any case, they're easier to brute force as it's easier for a machine to rotate a wheel fast than to press buttons fast, and no rate controlling can be imposed. Finally, a fail safe can be put in place in case there's a failure in the electronic lock, so that you don't get locked out. So overall, electronic locks are superior.
It's just the nature of electronics. Electronics don't last forever. They might last your whole lifetime, but maybe with your kids, it will fail. Probably best to replace it every 20-30 years I'd assume?
Electronic entry is nice, but can and will fail by corrosion or other means--just google and read the reviews. Lifetime warranty by the manufacturer--until the manufacturer goes out of business or the unit is a discontinued model? What happens in 10 or 15 years down the road? Today's gun safes are made by smart engineers that don't think like unforgiving burglars. When burglars broke into my car--they weren’t forgiving and neither will they be when they break into your house or attempt to crack your safe. The electronic keypad entry (brains) is connected to the functional safe (body) by a small wire--burglars can pull this wire and you have an expensive and nice 800-1,000 lb garage/room decor--especially if the wire is disconnected inside the safe. Cost to you? A $350 locksmith bill. Burglars can't get access in and neither can you or the manufacturer. Engineers must come up with a second entry access. Until then, don't buy electronic entry locks that can and will fail. Buy a traditional dial combination gun safe with backup key entry.
Erh ? Why bring a safedoor to a locksmith to pay $60-$80 for a combination change ??? Lol .. You just insert the changekey in the back
how about a key lock lol.
S&G 6800 series
The man in this video forgot to tell us that almost every safe with digital lock comes with special key (KEY OVERRIDE) to open it if digital system fails. I bet he sells safes with dial combination locks. :) People, don't be afraid to buy safes with digital locks. It is easier and faster to open, you can change password as many times as you want etc.
This isn't necessarily true. There are safes that have a digital lock that features a key override. The issue with these low quality locks is that they are typically very cheap and will fail 100%. This is why they have a key backup.
The digital locks that Dye is talking about have been tested by UL (Underwriters Laboratory) and cannot feature a key override. The reason why is that keys are easily picked and it becomes a liability to the safe. These locks are higher quality but still can fail. This is why if someone is concerned about reliability, I would 100% recommend a dial lock over a digital lock.
You know your safe is shit if you can take the door off and take it to a locksmith.
Security is an illusion, with enough time, money, and desire any "security" system/measure can be defeated. The only safe guard one has is the hope that the perp finds the effort/cost/risk too great for the possible reward.
That said there's not a person on this planet that can steal MY Rolex or Ferrari. It's been proven you can't steal from someone something they don't have :D
Also I think the guy said if you take your entire safe in, not just the door (something one can do with portable and smaller size safes).
This guy aint tell the full truth, if a digi lock fail costing you to have to get it drilled by a pro, it will cost well more than 400...keep in mind if you had to "force" the safe open, its ruined. a new quality safe will cost 1500. soooo, yea. il get a dial/digi hybrid. if not, il use a dial only
An electronic key pad is the best as long as you have a double sided key by-pass,, Steelwater safes offers this option.,,, anything less is stupid.....
www.steelwatergunsafes.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=vmj_naru.tpl&product_id=31&category_id=21&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=64
(1) Double bitted emergency bypass key included
Man, you are so full of it. I've had an American Security safe in my office for 21 years now and the electronic lock has never failed me. Why would you tell people that an electronic lock "WILL" fail. You don't know that it will fail at all.
electronics are what I can tell not time resistant. Its like milk.