Building and testing a new water cooling system for Peltier coolers
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- čas přidán 3. 10. 2020
- In this video, I show you a new water cooler setup for my Peltier cooler experiments. Previously, I’ve been using a water-cooling kit for PCs. The biggest change is in the radiator. In the new cooling system, I use a radiator which is actually a car part, it is an oil cooler. The fittings are perfect for the hoses I already have so it is easy to match them with any PC water cooling parts (i.e. 8 mm hoses). The surface area/contour is nearly two times larger. The thickness of the unit is the same, however, the older cooler (the dedicated CPU/GPU) cooler has more dense lamellae.
The experiment suggests that this cooler has more potential, but due to the poor airflow, I could not create a significant temperature drop between the inlet and the outlet. The difference was only around 2-3°C. However, the maximum temperature of the water was around 45°C which is very nice if considering the amount of heat pumped into the system.
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This is awesome. Was just going to do this project myself. Stay awesome out there. 😊🌎✨
Great! Hope you'll enjoy it!
Just a suggestion to this, build a shroud for the fans instead of having them sit directly on the radiator cooling fins, same as a vehicle radiator system. You want the fans to pull out as much air through a the entire radiator. By putting them directly in one spot you only cool that spot but you inadvertently create hot spots on the radiator where there is no air flow.
Thanks, this is a great idea! My original idea was to cover the whole radiator with fans, but unfortunately, I did not have enough fans in the correct size for that. But that shroud would make an excellent work for sure! I will keep this in mind for future builds, thanks!
One of my absolute favorite videos.
Thanks!
Very nice! Might suggest adding more wattage peltier modules. Built and working on similar to work off solar power trying to keep wattage under 300 for better solar panel. Copper is better cooler on hot side too. Good work! Saw another video where person is stacking peltier modules got temp really low was surprised.
Thanks! I also made a video on stacking Peltiers and reached -45°C.
Such videos bring in people with ideas, here it is one.... Power your Peltier with solar panel, the pump too, put at least 4 pcs and a fan,and recirculate the water from your outside pool. You warm the pool and cool your house.Not for free because the solar panel, panel voltage converter and etc cost some.But maybe it worth. If you work from home, put the cooler near you, at 1-2 meters but not to blow in your face :)) avoid wind-eye problems. Also if you don't have a pool, use a plastic water container, 50-100L or more, insulate it a bit (to avoid escape heat from container to the room) and heat that water to use it for washing dishes or take a bath/shower.
Hi! Problems with the idea (at least for me): I live in a small apartment. No pool, no roof to place solar panels, no place to put a 50-100 L water reservoir. By the way, if you just keep recirculating the water into an insulated tank, you Peltiers will get hotter and hotter and their efficiency will be worse with time.
This is the best peltier cooler system I've ever seen
Thanks! There will be further improvement coming in the future!
The “coolest” around :D
I see what you did there. ;D
@@CuriousScientist that is the fastest response ever, if I could sub twice I would!
Haha, thanks! I receive the comment notifications on my phone and it was in my hand when you left the comment, so I quickly responded.
Looks like so much work.
For a so little return. That's why I don't encourage using Peltiers for such applications.
Nice experiment! My thoughts would be to thermally isolate each side of the peltier. Styrofoam? Glass? Insulate the cold side a must! It's all delta T so isolating sides is critical.
Thanks! Of course, insulation and isolation would be a must in a real system. Styrofoam is a great and cheap option, it is also easy to cut to shape. Furthermore, you can buy those nice polyurethane foams with a self-adhesive layer on one side. They are also good and I saw them in professional applications.
That heat exchanger is optimised to condense gas into liquid & visa versa, the tubes can withstand pressure, the usual water radiator is optimised to reject heat from water, there is no pressure so the tubes can be flat & therefore are the optimised shape to reject heat. But I think you realised that with your experiment ;-)
Yes, I realized that, but nevertheless your comment is very valuable because of the small details you mentioned! Thank you for that! With Peltier coolers, we will never boil the water (hopefully, haha), so I never intended to use it the radiator "properly". I just wanted to look at it because it is much cheaper than the regular water cooling radiator and I wanted to see how it performs.
@@CuriousScientistI am a refrigeration / airconditioning engineer by trade & had access to the exact same type of heat exchangers & came to the same conclusion when I started experimenting with Peltiers 10 years ago. I now use the off the shelf water radiators as they are optimised for what we are doing & don't cost that much anyway from Ebay China ;-)
Hey curious scientist? Dont know if you will see this, however, im thinking on buying all the components to basically water cool the hot side of the peltier module to a tank, and also pump the cooled side of the peltier over a small fan. what inverter do i need? Power is my main mystery but i also need to power any pumps i use (these are expected to be small component pumps). Thanks.
Hi! Many people try to do the same as you - transfer heat to the cold side with a water cooling loop. Please, don't do it! Peltiers are not efficient and the whole cooling becomes even worse if you add a bunch of thermal resistance (the water cooling loop) between the cold side and the object to be cooled. Ideally, the cold side should be attached to the object that you want to cool (a microchip, a laser diode, a silicon detector...etc). Also, I assume that you will try to build something which would act as an AC. It won't work very well, you will need a large amount of Peltiers which then will need a lot of power and a lot of cooling. To answer your question: It depends on the Peltier. Check their datasheet. Typically, you will need around 13-18 V and anything between 6-15 A per Peltier cooler (if you are using the TEC127xx-series which are really popular).
This is really great!! I'm looking to build a small unit of peltier system but the degree drop from ambient is around 4 degree. The conclusion to this experiment was the fan is not efficient, do you think that if I use a small radiator (120mm) with 2 fans front and back, would it be able to sustain the 4 degrees drop?
Also, does the placement of the pump has any significant differences between doing the pushing the water or pulling the water before restarting the loop again?
Thanks! Well, better pump would increase the waterflow which would have a positive impact on the system. So, if you are willing to pay more, I would recommend a better pump of course! The fan coverage can also be improved, so I also recommend you to use better fans than I did (I only had these available). Also, check the comments under the video because quite a few more experienced viewers left very informative and useful comments. I at least learned a lot from those.
@@CuriousScientist 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. You need a duct to send out the room the warm air from the hot side.
Looks like you do not understand physics. Please do your research if you want to be a scientist.
Stop being a kid.
Peltiers are drawing a lot of electricity. You know that.
So don't lie poor youtubers without thermodynamics laws understanding.
You will never get to finish a project with peltiers. Because you need to spend 5 times the price on electricity.
So all your money from youtube will go to the grid power.
We appreciate your effort but please be mature and learn proper physics about TEC coolers. They are very inefficient.
Check my previous answer. :)
Which of your videos is the follow up one to this, I'm curious to see how the improvements work. Thank You!
Hi! As far as I am concerned, there's no real follow-up video. What information are you looking for, maybe I can answer your questions.
Firstly let me say your video has given me a Layman, great insight of Peltiers, however, can I use Peltier system to cool running water ?
Hi! I'm glad that it helped. Regarding your question, it depends. What is the flow rate of the water, what kind of temperature drop you expect and finally, what is the budget? But typically, it can be a challenge to cool running water.
Great video!
Thank you!
Any links for the parts used in the video?
Thanks. It is in the description.
Nice vid! Im just wondering how do you make your peltier modules run efficient enough for it to actually be worth it?
Hi! Thanks! You cannot make them more efficient. The efficiency is "coded" in the material they use for the Peltier coolers, so as long as the researchers don't come up with better materials, everything stays the same. But, you can find specific applications where Peltier is more preferred.
@@CuriousScientist thanks for the quick reply! I didnt know it was coded in! Becouse ive read that theres a 33.3% efficiency in generating cold is that compared to other cooling techniques/componements?
Peltier coolers are around 10% efficient and compressors are around 40%, if I remember correctly. So, there is a factor of four between Peltier coolers and compressor-based coolers. This is why it is not worth to use Peltiers instead of compressors in ACs for example. Efficiency is usually the ratio between the power output and the power input.
@@J_A-_ If you havent seen it check out LTT, he tyries to use these a couple times and its not very efficient but its cool.
@@coolarrow9127 thanks! Ill do that
So funny ...I had the same ideas, with one exception...have you considered running a sec water cooler on the cold side also. This should cool the water running though the system and create a mini AC / heater, depending on the polarity you feed the pletier. The problem is watts. Which was the reason I didn't build mine, as you have 4 fans, 2 water pumps and the peltiers, which you can stack the peltiers on top of each other. You could mitigate the watts by having a thermal switch with a set temp to turn on and off the peltiers. Youd have a small solid state AC/ cooling unit, but at the cost of high watts.
Of course, the problem is the Watts, it is a super inefficient device that should not be used for AC purposes. It is not impossible to build an AC with them, but it is not feasible in an economic sense (maybe also in an engineering sense too). Like, you can still have steam engines and use them for transportation, but it is not an economical way of doing it...
The thing you describe (the second water cooling loop) just adds extra complexity and losses. Your throughput is still limited by the cooling capacity of the "final loop", so adding another stage of Peltiers in-between does not improve anything for AC purposes.
Stacking Peltiers is also a bad idea for AC. Stacking them only changes the achievable max temperature gradient. The heat transfer properties (Qc) are still determined by the final Peltier stage.
I made multiple videos explaining why using Peltiers are not a good idea for air conditioning. I even did experiments and measurements.
@@CuriousScientist thank you sir i understand... I will say that they do seem to work in an encloser. My job threw out a mini fridge...i took it apart looking for the compressor and was shocked that it was a peltier device. So ive been toying with the idea of making a mini ac, but came to the same conclusion. It's like a rail gun, it's a stupid idea based on efficiency. It was funny to me that i also thought of a cpu cooler and then thought of trans cooler, also. I also considered putting the cooling side on the trans cooler itself, a series smaller ones on one side of the cooler, just enough to drop the temp, but not freeze, then one high cfm fan. Towards the other side. Perhaps with an Arduino to turn them on and off, but again is it worth it? No. I have another crazy project, which is a cooling suit. Perhaps in that application peltiers might be better suited, pardon the pun. I might use them for that instead of the mini ac. With all the respect in the world, sir, technically... we are still in the steam age. Gas, coal and even nuclear use steam turbines. Perhaps there could be a technological leap in peltiers that could convert the heat directly into electricity in a fusion reactor some day. I think there's something there, it just needs to be further developed. It was a pleasure chatting with you Sir. May the good Lord keep you and those you hold dear through these crazy times we're living in.
Oh one last thing i forgot. What do you think of an automotive application. On a intercooler for incoming air, or for the gas lines. In that application, watts don't really matter and dropping the temp by even a few degrees makes a huge difference. The Hot side could be cooled easily too by incoming air. What do you think?
Hi! Yeah, mini fridges (like super small ones) or even wine fridges can use Peltiers. But it is a small, well insulated volume, not a whole room with a lot of heat sources and bad insulation.
I know that turbines use steam, but I was referring to the locomotives. We use diesel and electric locomotives but not steam-powered due to known reasons (e.g. efficiency). Same with the Peltier vs. compressor-based cooling. Even though the compressor-based solution is noisier and it has moving parts, it is at least 3-4x more efficient than a Peltier cooler. So the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Of course Peltiers also have their niche application area (portable XRF device, X-ray detectors in electron microscopes, coolers for diode lasers...etc), but these areas are typically not areas where a lot of heat needs to be pumped.
For intercooler, in my opinion it is not feasible. I could be wrong, but there's a huge amount of air within a short amount of time passing through the intake, so it would be very difficult to build a Peltier-based cooling system to achieve even a few degrees drop in temperature. If it was feasible, people would already use it, especially in racing.
@@CuriousScientist Im enjoying our conversation so much. Sometimes you get bad people on here. I'm sorry about the steam comment. It wasn't meant to insult or be a smart A...it was just a realization I came to a while back. Outside of solar hydro and wind, were still in the steam age. I had a few ideas i wanted to run by you on increasing the efficiency of a Peltier AC. Perhaps the fan blades can be a tordial design. That would give more CFM out of the same electrical output. I also think that having a water heater radiator system that uses a reciprocating syphon system could eliminate the need for pumps. An Arduino could be programmed to control the peltiers and cycle them like in a real AC system, where the compressor also cycles on and off. Air to air is not that efficient, but water to air is better.
I should probably mention that I am currently sleeping in my Caravan. I moved to a new city, where I didn't know anyone, my roommate died, and the family kicked me out. I had no place to go, so I did my best. I have a job and can get another room mate, but I figure, if i can keep this going for a bit, I can save some money, so it doesn't happen again. It sucks, but I have a Bluetti power station, solar panels and cooling fans. Its like jumping in a cold pool, you might cry at first, but you acclimate. I shower at the gym and have to be disciplined to the extreme to make it work, but i have a routine that works.
My problem is i live in Orlando Fl, so it gets hot, really hot. So a peltier AC blowing directly on me would be heaven sent. I have a storage unit where i keep some of my stuff but can't sleep there. I can't order stuff cuz I don't have a mailing address and dont have a work shop to build things. Plan B is to get a 12v mini fridge, have a water reservoir with anti freeze inside the fridge and run lines to a few 120mm radiators with fans mounted to the top of the van. Like this the fridge would be dual purpose.
I wanted to tell you that despite my current predicament, I have faith and hope. I've grown closer to God and it's that faith in him that will get me through this. Made me a more grateful and humble person. I plan to make a vid of my van conversion and things I've learned in the hopes that it can help others in my situation. I was an MECP certified tech at best buy and C city, back in the day, so im not a stranger to custom car installs. Remember always to believe in the good Lord because he always believes in you. I thank him every day for the things i have and those that I don't. The key is to never give up hope. Take care my friend and may the good Lord bless you and those you hold dear.
Hello. I am very inexperienced in this type of system so I apologize if my question doesn't make sense or has been answered.
Is it possible to circulate water through the block not to cool the block but to cool the water so that cold water is flowing through the radiator so that when a fan is blowing air through the radiator it cools the air coming off the radiator? If so, what is the air temperature coming off it?
Hi! Check my other videos because I made videos where I answered your questions. But if you want to build an AC with the above described thing, you'll have a hard time achieving a good cooling.
If you had the Peltier the other way around, as in the water block in contact with the cold side, would cool air be pushed through the radiator?
If you cool the water loop, of course, but you should not expect a very cold air unless you use a lot of Peltier coolers to cool the water in the cold loop. Also, you still need a similar radiator cooler to keep the hot side properly cooled.
Seems very good want to to try it but I don't have the dimensions of the oil cooler, do you have them ? Thanks
Have you watched the video?
I saw the other video you made about peltier air cooler, maybe you can try with this bigger radiator, use 1 or 2 peltier with big heat sink and fan, I believe it can lower the temperature by 8 to 10 degree celsius.
Unfortunately, believing is not sufficient in science and engineering. 1 or 2 Peltiers, even the 12715 won't be able to do that. There's not enough cooling power for such a drop...
Honestly, i'm not sure you are right about your radiator. Yes, the outside dimensions are bigger, but it is made for oil with higher viscosity than water. You can't just compare the outside dimensions, you also have to consider the internal surface area.
What i think woul'd be a better choice is another car part, the hot air coupe radiator.
They are designed more like PC-cooling radiators, but bigger. They have two chambers, one on each side with smaller channels running between them thru the fins.
That's what we used "back in the days", before you could buy purpouse built pc-cooling kits.
Also, build a shroud around your fans and put a little distance between the fans and the radiator sou your two fans can cover the whole surface area of your radiator.
Thanks for the valuable input. Yes, it is probably not the optimal solution for this application. But why I tested it is because these radiators are much cheaper than the PC components. So I was curious if they can do as good a job as the PC components.
I checked the hot air coupe radiators, but they seem to have a similar price as the PC radiators. Then there's maybe not too much benefit to it for this purpose.
Building a shroud (I could print it!) is also a great idea, thanks!
@@CuriousScientist Back then when i was messing with water cooling (Just as Pentium III 450Mhz was the thing, LOL), there was just one brand making ready to buy kits. That kit was very expensive and not very good. People used Eheim Aquarium pumps, home made cooling blocks and reservoirs.
The thing with those car heater radiators is that they come in all shapes and sizes. Maybe not cheap, but very efferctive.
Also, i didn,t realize that it was a several years old video i responded to. :p
Wow, the age of Pentium III was quite some years ago! I did not even have a computer at that time, I received my first in 2003, if I remember correctly. It seems that people had to be more creative in those times because there were not too many off-the-shelf solutions.
Regarding the response, I keep my eyes on literally all comments and I try to respond to them, even if they are related to an old video. Funnily enough, this is one of my most popular videos, so I try to be even more active here.
Hii bro good video 👍👍👍
Thank you! :)
Hello, the Universal cooler is so awesome. You did a nice application with it,
Trying to make a personal table cool air blower. I have a simple 200mm x 40mm water cooling alluminun block. Will it be enough to cool down 4 peltiers of 6Amps each? Without attaching fans on it? I am going to use 3 litres tub of water for it. I will use those bigger heat sinks with fans in the front, as cool air blowers. Whst else should I do?
Hi! Thank you!
I do not entirely understand your idea, so let's discuss it.
How do you plan to use that water tub? If you use 4x TEC12706 Peltiers, you will have around 500 W heat to dissipate? Where do you plan to put that heat? 500 W heat can quickly start to heat up the air in the vicinity of the heat sink that you use for cooling the hot side. Also, I think that 200x40 mm heatsink will not be sufficient especially without any fans.
@@CuriousScientist
Thank you for replying. I am not building computer cooler. I am building cold air blower. Like mini AC. Cold air blower for dining table.
I have water block of 200 x 40 mm.
I will attach inlet/outlet water pipes to it.
Pipes will go to 12v Submersible pump, in a water tub or jar, placed outside the box.
For cold side I will use 4 inches heatsink with fan.
The cold part will be enclosed isolated in a cardboard box.
I will get cold air from the 4 inches fan from the box.
@@CuriousScientist
Look I have 4 peltier DIY kits like these. czcams.com/video/kL-j2qaw_OI/video.html
If you see the big heatsink, it is supposed to go to hot side. And small heat sink goes to cold side. But I plan to use it reverse. I will use the big one for cold side, and attach water cooling block on the hot side.
Oh, I know these, I have a few of them. :)
So, I assume that you are going to use 4 of these. It might be enough to blow a somewhat cold air, but it will never work well as an AC. So, it will only provide a very local cooling effect. The water tub is not a good idea because you cannot dissipate the heat from it efficiently. You will need a radiator to get rid of the heat. As I said, you will get something around 500 W heat. After a while, it will make the water warmer and warmer and the performance of the Peltier cooler will drop because the hot side temperature will increase. I assume you haven't seen my video on this topic: czcams.com/video/_F6XFvycpRg/video.html
@@CuriousScientist Ok I saw it. I understood. I have another idea now.
I will use the DIY kit as it is. Big heatsink and 4 inches fans on hot ends.
and then I will use the 200mm water block on the cold side with small tank.
I will place this whole unit outside window.
I will bring two cold water pipes from the window to a indoor box with another 200mm water block and fan. This indoor box will blow cool air.
I dont want to cool the room. I just want local cooling effect for one person.
How is the idea? 😀
Hi my guy. The temperature differential between the inlet and outlet of the radiator is not very important. The performance of a radiator is measured by its ability to remove heat from the system overall. The liquid is moving rapidly, so a big differential between any parts of the loop is not expected. That's why it's conventional knowledge in PC watercooling that the order of components in a watercooling loop is unimportant. If you want to know the relative performance of this setup compared to a conventional PC watercooling radiator, you would need to compare the average temperature of the loop with this radiator, vs a traditional radiator. It would be advisable to do this with lower and higher heat energy inputs, because different radiators have different efficiency curves as temperature increases. Thanks for the interesting video!
Hi and welcome! Since the temperature difference between the inlet and the outlet of the radiator is proportional to the heat removed from the system overall, I think it is a good approach for a comparative study.
@@CuriousScientist really? in most loops, the difference for in vs out is 2-3 degrees max, so why did you consider the ~3 degrees difference you saw to be "bad"?
@@eggnogsaber Bad, as compared to my dedicated CPU cooler radiator.
I wonder if you can use this in reverse for the purpose of cooling evaporative coolers water storage
If you want to cool the water that you want to evaporate later, it does not make any sense. It is more difficult to evaporate cold water.
Hi, sir,,thank u so much it so informative,,,, i understand the system u expalined with experiments,,, nut i have a question that i need to know how heating will be done,,,,,,
i want to know heating & cooling both in system
Hi! Sorry, I don't understand what you mean.
I wonder if we can use car radiator coolant instead of water??
Will it give better results or not?
Cars use water for cooling the engine.
If you have solar power at home, this is definitely worth it. If you do all the other stuff like CPU lapping, liquid metal and a large external heatsink radiator combo, it's gonna idle at low room temperature easily.
Solar power for what? Also it is very bold to suppose that people have access to solar power.
@@CuriousScientist Huh? Many people have solar panels for their homes. Solar power to power this thing for long periods of time? Often times, with off grid homes, there is an excess generated by solar energy and some people choose to sell it to the grid while others use it for purposes like this.
Well, for example, I don't have solar power. And many people who live in apartments cannot install solar panels. Also, it is quite an investment to have solar, I don't think it really worth it for just this purpose.
@@CuriousScientist Of course not just for this purpose. I never said anything about installing solar at home just so you can use a peltier module for your PC. Was a remark for those who already have one or are planning to get one, that this could be a fun bonus.😂😂
Okay then another question. Why would you choose to cool your PC with a Peltier? CPU is doing fine at temperatures between room temperature up to 70-80°C. Peltier would only make sense if you would want to cool _below_ room temperature. Otherwise it is a huge waste of resources.
Can we cool air if we apply a fan with radiator ,where water will continusely run through it like you did in the video? And apply running tap water which will not get stored or circulated in the same place in the hot side.
Hi! Peltiers are not so good for air conditioning (I assume that is your goal). Preferably, the cooled object should be as close as possible to the cold side of the cooler. If you try to transfer the heat to the cold side via a water loop, you will further decrease the cooling efficiency of the Peltiers. Also, the water can freeze in the cooling block... The cold side should have a fan and a large heatsink and the hot side should be cooled with a water loop. But once again, you would need a plenty of Peltiers to produce noticeable effect. It is not economical.
@@CuriousScientistare they good for refrigeration?If I use multiple 6 amp peltier will I be able to cool a small box, while using a huge heatsink on the hot side of the peltier?
They can be used, but they are not _good_ for it (efficiency). For example, you can find Peltier-based wine coolers. But it is a very specific application...
Hi, I know this video is older, and maybe you have made changes and / or already tested this, but wouldn't you have better cooling, if you put the hot water through the radiator first to cool off some and then through the petier cooler? Since a fan and radiator can not drop the temperature below ambient, it's possible you are actually warming the water up slightly after it's been cooled. I am no expert, just looking into using peltiers and viewing examples from people that have used them. So asking questions as I see useful videos.
Hi!
I think you haven't watched the video carefully. I clearly explained the path of the water in the loop around 13:30.
The warm water goes from the hot side of the Peltier to the radiator where it dissipates the excess heat. Then the now roughly ambient temperature water enters the pump and gets pumped to the hot side to absorb heat again. The water won't heat up between the radiator and the pump, so it does not matter if the order is [hot side]-[radiator]-[pump]-[hot side] or [hot side]-[pump]-[radiator]-[hot side].
Goog way
if you same radiator atach cool side with 1 fan and 4 pelteir with 12volt 15 ampair
I think you will get good result
Thank you!
If I would want to build a mini cold water recirculation system (similar to cold water aquarium) how will the line up and instruments different would I need to consider using the similar layout?
I need to preserve my food in a air tight bottle to submerged into the cold pool of clean sanitized water because I don't want to buy a large fridge in my rented apartment.
A mini fridge would be simpler, and cheaper both regarding the initial investment and a running costs. I built a Peltier-based cooling box and also different water cooling setups. Look around in my CZcams channel.
@@CuriousScientist I found a new way. Hot and Cold water dispenser. A used one with 9L blue water bottle at USD20. Using about 100w when activated. All I need is to make an opening on to allow my sealed beverages or food to submerged into the blue 9L water bottle.
Thereafter do a circulation pump drawing the inlet from the cold water dispenser to supply a waterpump and recirculates it back into the that blue 9L water bottle.
This would keep my sealed food or bottled beverages cold and fresh.
On the other hand, those condensates on the blue 9L bottle concern. I would use some sort of PP Foam to isolate it and having a small drain hose to the nearest bin or floor drainage in my kitchen.
Good job, i just wanted to let you know that your pump is so quiet because its junk. I have the same one, cost like 20 from china. It doesnt circulate enough volume, i used two pumps and i was able to fill my loop.
I had no problems with the pump, it circulates enough water for my requirements.
It is nice video
Please reduce pumps flow as well for improvement in reduction of temperature 🌡️ at radiator out put
Thank you! I will check it with a different flow rate too! But I think it is also an issue of airflow. I will check both in an upcoming video.
@@CuriousScientist Which of all your videos follows this one? I would like to see how the improvements worked. Thank you!
The cooling fan motor creates heat, not much, but creates heat. If you pulled cold air through the radiator, you remove the cooling fan motors heat as well. Just thinking.
They don't produce enough heat to become noticeable.
What if I want to go in reverse, I want to have cold air coming from the fans, by running the water line through an ice cooler and then feeding it to the radiator cold, so that the air in the room would cool down. Just don't know quite how to do it all...
There are people out there who do some similar stuff. They fill up a huge box with ice, then they run a duct into the box and out of it as well and they direct the air with the outlet duct somewhere where the cold air is needed. They make the ice in their freezer, so it requires some time and logistics. What you would like to do (as I assume) is to cool the water with Peltier coolers and run the cold water through the radiator that acts as a heat exchanger. Could be done, yes, but it would need a lot of power so the system would not be too efficient.
i want to cool a cabin sized 6 feet × 4 feet × 2 feet with five 12715 peltier modules. i just want 25°c inside the cabin enough for a person to sleep at night. the temperarure difference i am trying to achieve is anywhere between 7 °c to 10 °c. Can I achieve that temperature inside the cabin or is it a waste of time and money?
I think it would be a waste of money. 5 units is probably not enough. And I'd you really would run them at their best potential, each unit would consume about 250 W or so, and you would also need to get rid of this huge amount of heat. It's definitely not a cheap idea. I would not struggle with it.
Is it possible to create a peltier cooling device that delivers drink-safe water?
Of course, but you have to match the cooling power and the flow rate of the water carefully. Also, keep in mind that Peltier coolers do not make the water "drink-safe".
Also increase water in circuit to reduce the water 💦 temperature
The amount of water is limited due to the size of the tank and the length of the hoses.
@@CuriousScientist due to limited water capacity temperature 🌡️ was at 44 degree
It will go down with air flow and increase water capacity in tank. I think you can maintain it 35 degree after the some smart change
Might try coper pipes
They do not sell this in copper version as far as I know, or at least I could not find it. Also, based on its size, I guess it would be very expensive as compared to this part.
Will the heat sink emit dew/water vapor?
What do you mean by emitting? And which heat sink are you referring to? Water can condense on the cold side of the Peltier cooler, once its temperature drops under the dew point. But that is not emission.
which one is better to increase the peltier Efficiency current or voltage
What do you mean? The efficiency is an intrinsic property, you cannot change it. But still your question doesn't make sense. You cannot feed just current or just voltage to load.
I want to share a few points from widely accepted and tested knowledge from the PC water-cooling community. I will give sources or trusted documented testing for each claim at a later point if asked.
Round tube radiators are poor performers because round tube are not restrictive enough to create turbulent flow. If laminar flow forms along the walls of the pipe, a slower moving layer of water is formed and drastically reducing the heat exchange. Another reason this kind of model is bad compared to your former black model is fin density as well as the material obviously. Less dense radiator will scale poorly with increased airflow. Be careful not to mix aluminum and copper parts in the same system or you risk galvanic corrosion.
Unlike someone else commented. Water quantity in the system doesn't change the effectiveness of the system but only makes steady state longer to reach. And, up to some point more flow rate is GOOD. Higher flow increases the turbulence at the two heat exchanges, water block and radiator. You don't want to see a drastic difference in inlet and outlet ports, what you want is lower steady stat water temperature in the system. The water doesn't heat up and discharges heat "in one seating" as it passes through the blocks and rad like tricks loading up and unloading.... Rather the water of the loop continuously absorbs heat at the block and dissipates heat at the rad. More water flow (up to a point) gets you better results.
Cheers!
Wow, thanks! These are the comments that I am looking for! I am always open for knowledge, so I am extremely thankful for your effort to share this information with me!
Yes, what I spotted as one of the main differences between the 2 radiators is that the aluminum one has round tubes while the other one has quite flat, rectangular cross-section tubes. Now I know the reason behind using the flat ones. Fin density is also lower yes, I also mentioned this in the video. I should do some measurements and estimate the total fin area to have some comparison between the two radiators. I also know about the corrosion, I saw some nasty pictures about this. Actually, I also saw some very bad example of this at my workplace in a very expensive instrument's water cooling system. I cannot understand how they missed it. But in my case, I drain the whole system after the experiment, so corrosion would be an issue after a veeeeeeery long time. But yes, for systems running 24/7, this should be considered for sure.
Yes, increasing the amount of water is just increasing the "thermal capacity" of the system (Q = c*m*dT). Larger mass (more water) would only delay the process of reaching the maximum temperature as you said, but it would not change it.
"You don't want to see a drastic difference in inlet and outlet ports" → Alright, I was not aware of this. For some reason, I had this thought in my head that we should have some significant drop. I was trying to think about this as it would be a refrigerator system where there is a significant drop/increase in temperatures at different parts. But I forgot about the phase transformation which "distorts" everything and obviously it is not present in this system.
I will try to do some tweaks on the system and run another test, I am really curious. Looking forward to see you in my next videos and have discussion! Have a great day!
Nice .. i want to build this peltier for air cooler fan .. my plan is use a radiator cooler oil for transfer water cool in input air flow fan .. and hot transfer just using heatsink dip in the water tub .. i use water pump and push water to water blok cold side peltier and flow to radiator .. how many peltier for cooling radiator 200mm x 400mm ? What this efficient for tub hot & cool water mix ? Thanks
Hi! Why do you want to transfer the heat to the cold side with an additional water loop? It will further decrease the already bad efficiency of the system due to the additional heat losses. Check this video and you will see that the thing you want to build will not be easy: czcams.com/video/3dmQDf3GcpY/video.html
@@CuriousScientist ok thanks
Can you try to make a AC with this setting by switching the + - ? To see how cold the air will be that comes out of the fans?
I would burn down the Peltier probably. That tiny heatsink cannot dissipate that much heat. Furthermore, one single Peltier won't make an AC. And I also made several videos where I actually made such an experiment and I proved that it is not possible with a single Peltier. Check my other Peltier-related videos!
won't that purposeless heatsink act as an heat absorber (from the environment to the water you wanted to cool)? also, it looks like it is thermally in contact with the hot side...
I am not sure, but you might have misinterpreted the video. The water is _not_ cooled by the Peltier cooler. The water cooling system is used to cool the hot side of the Peltier cooler. The purposeless heat sink is in contact with the water block which is cooling the hot side of the Peltier cooler. Since that part is above the room temperature anyway, it actually helps the cooling (but to a negligible extent). The bolts can transfer heat, yes. This is also negligible in this experiment. What people usually do is that they use plastic washers and/or sleeves to detach the bolts from the other metal parts.
Fans suck better than push and the fans are to small compared to the size of the cooler. Also pump the water through the bottom of the radiator so that the radiator will be full of water. But it does look like there are no air bubbles. So that's ok
I shook the radiator to make sure there are no bubbles inside. They can get stuck in the curvature of the pipes easily. Fans are small but I wanted to make it comparable with the other radiator, so I use the same number of fans.
The variable here is time. The fans are not helping I agree. But the cooler does not have enough time to produce a change in temperature.
Hi! What would be your suggestion then?
@@CuriousScientist My thoughts would be more contact with the peltier cooler, possibly flat wide copper pipe, as wide as the peltiers, with several lower wattage peltiers maybe 4 or more. Place the the peltiers on both sides of the copper pipe and regulate flow accordingly. I would think that would give more of a change in temperature.
Think about flicking your finger through boiling water quickly, might be a little uncomfortable, but hold your finger in boiling water for a second, and it’s a whole new effect.
Sure, more coolers will cool better, it is pretty obvious. But in this video, the point is to test this car radiator if it works well as a radiator to keep the Peltier cooler cool enough. I did not really want to cool anything with the Peltier cooler.
@@CuriousScientist Fair enough, then flow control will certainly help even with the existing system.
what is the flow rate of pump and head used on video
The product is on my website under the parts & tools page. You can check it. I don't remember it from the top of my head.
One more thing is that please use 80mm by 40mm water block instead of this and reduce water pressure
I will look into this in the next experiment!
good advice.......including the data before and after it is also important like this video....czcams.com/video/tCNAAgT0850/video.html
Are both hot and cold tubes touching each other?
Yup, but it does not matter too much, there is virtually no heat transfer across those thick plastic hoses. At least not enough to invalidate the conclusions.
Hi long time since you posted the video but i was wondering, it is posible to do it on a car a/c? Replasing a compresor whit water pump and bypassing condensor.. the system is allready a close circuit🤔🧐.. i'm resershing the topic. If it posible doin it.
Thinking on a treple aluminum blocks 40*200mm whit 10 peltiers, coold center and heat out.. for fluid circuit from a Reservoir pump to cold center to in cabin radiator, out to Y to heat side, out to a/c radiator to reservoir.
Hi! Compressors are much-much more efficient than Peltier coolers. It does not worth the trouble to build a Peltier-based AC.
@@CuriousScientist yes i now, in my car condition bad ac tech sees 2k+ to fix so in the time i gader money i experiment🤓
P.S. car name is Frankenstain
The thing is can it work
It is not impossible to make a Peltier cooler-based AC work, however it won't be as efficient as a compressor-based. Therefore you'll need to use more Peltier coolers, more power and more cooling for the Peltier coolers to provide the same AC performance. In my opinion it doesn't worth the trouble.
Daria certo eu usar esse sistema para tentar resfriar o ar da admissão do meu carro visando ganho de potência ou não compensaria?
Sorry, I have no idea about what you wrote. Could you write in English?
Would it work for me to use this system to try to cool the intake air of my car with a view to gaining power or would it not compensate? In this case it would be a water cooler with a copper coil to cool the air. Thks
Thanks for the English! :) Peltier coolers are not powerful enough to cool the intake air. You would need tremendous power to cool the air with the Peltiers and then you also have to cool those Peltiers. It is better to use a proper cooling system from a car part manufacturer.
Hey. Can i use 12v 4.2watt water pump on 12v 10amp power supply?
Hi! Of course. If the voltages match, then you only have to make sure that the power supply can supply the needed current. Since you have a 10 A power supply, it will be sufficient, because a 4.2 W device at 12 V will need 0.35 A.
@@CuriousScientist wow. Thnks 😁😁
You are welcome!
Hey master i need your help
can i run my peltier above 12v?
explain it to me plss i dont know what amps is plsss help me..
Hey! Yes, you can run if you are using one of the TEC-series. In general, you will need 16-18 V to run them on the max current. But you don't want to run them at max current, because you lose the cooling ability due to the excessive amount of Joule heat. Watch my videos, I explain everything about Peltier cooling.
@@CuriousScientist your the best....
@@CuriousScientist last question ...
How many volts and amps are the best in peltiers? ...just give me an example of model of peltier and their best voltag and amps
@@samanheeliud294 it really depends on the application. TEC12715 provides the highest cooling power from the TEC-series, but it needs a very good cooling. I hope you are not trying to build an air conditioning system, because that won't really work.
@@CuriousScientist I already did
It coold my room about 24 celcius in 1hr and 34 mins. But my problem is to buy a new peltier that had lower watts but has a nice cooling
better to use AC freon compressor with custom connector CPU plate
I know, but many viewers don't accept it. :/
can add glycol to maintain the temperature transfer
How do you transfer temperature? I have never heard about that method. Also, glycol is toxic, why would you encourage people using it?
Would you be open to building a system for me that can cool a water system to a desired temperature?
Sure, drop me a mail and we will see if I can help.
Your setup is insignificant to any other radiator setup for PC cooling! Look at best you'll be able to inject a burst of cool liquid into the system. However, since your dealing with so little volume when the system stabilizes you probably won't see that huge a drop in temp.
To truly be effective you need a aquarium chiller. This uses phase changers to drop the temp of large volumes of water. It ranges from 40 to 80 gallons. Those large volumes of water would take a while to heat up meaning you'll see more significant drops in temp. The question then becomes can the aquarium chiller recool the coolant fast enough as it gets heated up.
The speeds these pumps usually cycles at are rather fast. Its very likely you'd be able to pull in the super chilled water from the bottom cycle it and have that warm coolant enter at the top. This would mingle with the cooler water reducing its higher temp and start to get colder when bam it gets sucked out again to repeat the cycle.
So picture our setup and lets say our starting temp is zero degrees. (I know its ice at that point lets say because its moving its not freezing)
When we turn on the pc it gets heated to 50 degrees, goes through radiator and loses 10 degrees. That 40 degrees gets injected into chiller and mixes with other cooler water reducing temp by half say 20 degrees. Now say its able to remain in the tank and get chilled losing another 10 degrees before its sucked back out. From this point on the temperature will have equilized, your able to maintain that injection of 10 degree cool water consistently. Note its no longer zero like we first started with.
Now this is just to explain it. These aren't realistic numbers and i lack the compentant math skills to even figure this out. Would 80 gallons of chilled water be enough to maintain that zero temp? Would you need a 100? Keep in mind the more water the longer to cool it. I've read some aquarium chats and most say it takes 15 mins to drop temp by 3 degrees. Our example chiller is moving 600liters an hour. Well if its 79 gallons thats 300 liters so you' get a half hour of chilling time and if 3 degrees @ every 15min is accurate thats 6 degrees. How much heat is being added? Is it more than the six degrees?
Look this would effectively cool your system down no doubt but even if you were able to run super cool temps through your pc may still thermal throttle because the IHS isn't large enough to dissipate enough heat fast enough.
Then there's the concern how long is my chiller having to turn on to chill? Am i able to play 30 minutes on an OC cpu and have it cycle on or is it always on trying to lower that temp down.
Look i get i used zero in my example more realistic goal is 20 C and is that feasible without burning out your chiller motor. I believe so. Some day i might try it but there is the whole of condensation to contend with as well
Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about.
@@CuriousScientistyour setup would have little effect of chilling PC components comparable to whats on the market. First your water volume is negligible 2nd the cost for the electricity for the amount of cooling means your wasting money. Like I suggested for PC cooling liquid a aquarium chiller would be more cost effective. For the same power your using I could set a aquarium chiller to 25 degrees C. Why would I not just do that?
@kazzdevlin5339 I have never said that this should be used for chilling PC components. Quite the opposite, I always try to discourage people from using Peltier coolers to cool PC components. It does not make sense unless you want to go below ambient temperature, which again does not make sense either. 😄
Hot side fan speedup then you can reduce more cool
Yes! I have a high speed fan for this! I will test it in the next video.
@@CuriousScientist i have done with 8 peltier 12715 + 70amp power supply
Hot side 8 heatsik
Cool side car ac condencer with 1fan 5 inch
@@shahhiddali I wonder how big is the heatsink on the hot side. By a quick estimation, you have around 900 W of heat from the Joule-effect and an additional 3-500 W from the heat moved from the cold side to the hot side.
How can we get this things
What do you mean?
Why not submerge the radiator into a large bucket of water so you won’t need the fans?
How would that help?
Is that radiator made of aluminium?
I assume yes.
@@CuriousScientist Not a good idea to mix copper and aluminium. Look up galvanic corrosion
I know about it. But where do you see the copper? Also you can add corrosion inhibitors to the cooling water.
@@CuriousScientist That's OK. But those inhibitors can wear down over time. You do know that copper has better thermal conductivity than aluminium and aluminium has better thermal dissipation, right?
Yes, I know. One thing that I know a lot about is by the way metals and their behaviour. ;)
where ru from?
It is in my profile. :}
I also want to make ak 12 v ac i have a layout for this system..
Good luck!
I'm using pc components for my car lol
As long as it works! 😎
Bro use indoor unit with this setting and use more politer
For what?
the peltier cell is an interesting invention but I think it will only work as a toy. Too much effort to do anything productive.
That's not true. Peltier coolers are not just toys. They are very useful in x-ray detectors, for example. But they are not useful for cooling large volumes of fluids.
just buy a 30l thermo electric aquarium chiller on ebay
It depends on the person's goal. Those chillers are usually lower performance than those that you can make with diy methods using the same budget.
@@CuriousScientist Look I like experimenting too, and yes it depends on the application, but at 100w, and 30L, its a complete package for this type of micro cooling. I liked your idea of using the oil cooler, I am now buying one, even bigger, because I need to cool two reservoirs with one chiller, that have different liquids types.
The results are almost no existent - something is wrong! You used too little radiators on TEC and also the 2 sides are not isulated! Strange that TEC did not burn - no heat decipation of the 350 W!
The TEC was doing just fine, its cooling water was below 45°C. However, I don't understand your other remarks. I don't know if you have watched the video but the purpose of the test was to dump as much as possible heat into the water cooling system and see how it copes with the load. It just happened that I used a Peltier, but I did not assign any role to the Peltier, other than generating a lot of heat for the test. I don't know what other results you were expecting.
Can yuo show the dates volt ampere temp longer?!!!
Pause the video.
You really need to organize your Peltier playlists better. It’s a mess.
If I could take the time to make the videos, you can also take the time to watch them if you are really interested.
Kurang lengkap vidionya
Sorry, but I have no idea about what this means.
Cara merakitnya tidak di rekam
@@mohammadamin4574 In English, please.
@@CuriousScientist captain here, first he said that your video isn't complete yet (according to him), and then he said that you didn't event show him on video how you really put your system together in step by step
Yea something like that
Thank you for the translation!
A bit dragged on in my opinion
I try to talk about all the tiniest details as people often ask additional questions.
Your are definitely getting sued
Could you explain why?
@@CuriousScientist sorry little bit of a clickbait comment but I'm also working on a hydrogen project and I've seen some of your work and I was wondering if maybe you would like to collaborate
@@CuriousScientist czcams.com/video/OR8u__Hcb3k/video.html
Think about these brother
Crazy heat dissipate.....get them running into the ground ....
Only if the project is worth to do. But I won't agree to do any collab without any details. My free time is really limited.