The Best Super Shoe... for TRAIL RUNNING?
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2024
- Two trail shoes studded with super foam features. Who wins in this comparison of the Nike Ultrafly vs. Saucony Endorphin Edge.
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Doctors of Running aims to use knowledge of human movement, clinical biomechanics and performance to bring you cutting edge reviews, science and knowledge. Featuring reviews of the latest shoes and shoe technology from the perspective of physical therapy professionals. - Sport
The wife just won her trail race this weekend first time racing the Endorphin Edge, which is surprising because we are both flat footed who train in stability and could not wear the Endorphin Speed, but race in the Pro's. I can't wait to get them for myself!
Edit: it was a technical fast 11 miler on western states course, not ultra.
The much wider variety of terrain and weather conditioning such terrain makes it way more difficult to make a supershoe for trail running, let alone for the longer ultras. It is however possible that some brands want to specialize in mixed easy terrains and create shoes that make uphill and/or downhill more efficient. A 10 times more complex picture than road super shoes, but we love challenges, don't we? 😁
Have the endo edge and find it super quick over gravel paths, even runs the road pretty well but does start to feel firm, i think the ultra fly could be a good winter trainer that compliments the vaporfly and alpha fly. I bet that vibram outsole runs great on the road especially in crappy conditions , can see it been a versatile shoe
I am planning to buy the edge 2 but it has 6.mm drop and I am a heel striker with a 8.mm drop main, maybe I will need to customize it and add an 2mm insole or pad down there, how good is in therms of energy return foam,plate and speed_ and how about for long distance
Super helpful review, thanks! Your experience with the Edge matches mine. I enjoy them for more technical, shorter trail runs. Recently took them out for a 12-miler with 70% roads and 30% gravel trails and they disappointed me. Experienced some foot pain in the lateral side of my right foot, which has never happened before. I think that’s due to the stiffness and harder surfaces I was on. Intrigued by the Ultrafly, but won’t drop $250 on it. I think my Topo Mtn Racer will do fine for longer runs.
Shoutout Topo Mtn Racer
I am planning to buy the edge 2 but it has 6.mm drop and I am a heel striker with a 8.mm drop main, maybe I will need to customize it and add an 2mm insole or pad down there, how good is in therms of energy return foam,plate and speed_ and how about for long distance@@DoctorsofRunning
Just got a nice discount on the endorphin rift. Do you think it will work nicely for very hilly terrain? (Skyrunning)
How did you get the discount please?
Im returning the Ultrafly's - I tried them out on a short 10k trail but have decided that i can't justify the cost versus the versatility of the shoe plus, they're way too heavy - going to purchase Edge, UK Winters can get pretty muddy rendering this shoe next to useless on the trails. Shame as they look nice and they're very comfortable. They'd make really comfy outdoor slippers though :)
im planning getting one as casual/comfort shoes. Do you think its comfier than the invincible3? thx
@@huihengguan1949 I would advise getting one for each foot 😉
I'm looking for a new Gel-Nimbus type of shoe for the really easy flat park trails in Texas. Any suggestions?
Possibly Asics Trabuco Max 2, NB More Trail v3, Topo Pursuit. Bigger shoes, and that's assuming you even need a trail outsole Not always a given.
Just use a road shoe with good outsole (maybe puma deviate 2?) or ASICS sells a “TR” or trail version of their road shoes for instance try the ASICS novablast 3 TR ; I love that shoe for all the gravel easy trails near me. Though the lugs are better for winter wet than summer . Summer gravel easy trails I just use road shoes .
When the Nimbus 24 came out I scored a TR version which was mighty nice but after trying the new Nimbus and probably 100 miles in to the Gel-Nimbus 24 TR version I just scored the Trabuco Max 2. Appreciate you fellow runners!
hmmm... is it just me (maybe not, as some have also pointed this out), but I find the Endorphin EDGE really slippery on everything WET. I'm confused on how many people find them grippy (shrug), maybe on dry smooth trails, but from experience, vibram typically works with all conditions. Just don't know if the compound used in the ultrafly is as good as the ones used in, let's say, Speedgoat. The bad outsole compound of the EDGE makes it a dangerous, albeit speedy, shoe... imo.
A lot of your review talks about responsiveness, speed etc. however, I really wanna know how these super shoes feel going up 1000m in 5k, and how they feel when descending 1000m in 5k. Also, while you do some distinction in terms of time/distance, a lot of long ultras can take well over 24 hours. What I want to know if how they feel after 24 hours on your legs where you have walked for 70% of the time.
From a comfort and walking perspective, the Ultrafly is more comfortable. You are totally right, I should have reviewed them from a climbing perspective. Going up and down fast feels better in the edge. It has deeper lugs and is stiffer. Easier/longer climbs the Ultrafly feels better. I do not run ultramarathons (my wife did at a national level) and reviewed them from more of a shorter distance perspective.
-Matt
There's no reason for these overpriced products. Even the Pros use normal priced trail shoes, with lower stack and no plate for ultras. Look up Running shoe geeks youtube video about UTMB podium. I just have to say I am disappointed shoetubers pushing this when they know Ultraglide, Speedgoat or even cheaper options are just as good for trail and ultras.
@@Trailrunner1978 She prices are going wild, but 2022 UTMB podium was pretty much all high end 'super shoes'. Men's: Nnormal Kjerag ($200), Salomon S-Lab Genesis ($200), Adidas Terrax Proto (will certainly be over $200). Women's: North Face Summit Vectiv Pro (proto) ($250), Salomon Ultra Glide ($150), North Face Summit Vectiv Sky (proto) ($200). This year's Western States was also dominated by super shoes, included 2 males wearing the Nike Ultra Fly's.
I just got the Endorphin Rift and it’s very fast
Do they really feel like super shoes in the way that the vaporfly do when on the road?
I've been massively torn between the endorphin edge, the new rift or xodus ultra 2. Then we have the awaited arrival of the ultra fly trail and the ASICS fujispeed 2.... Biggest problem with trail shoes is there are too many
I had the Endorphin Edge and its usage case is limited. It's not nimble enough for technical trails. I love the Xodus Ultra 2 (and v1) - probably the most versatile all-round trail shoe. Just got the New Balance SC Trail and it's awesome. It's very light, fast, agile, and super comfy. Great on the road as well. I think the SC Trail is the sleeper super trail shoe that outdoes them all.
@@alexkhan2000 Sooo close to pulling the trigger on the SC Trail... How has it been on the really technical, rocky, eff up your ankles type of terrain? I've been doing most of my trail running in the Brooks Catamount 2 and love how stable it is--nearly impossible to roll and ankle, but the midsole is on the flatter side and some pop for racing would be nice.
@@codyjung6963 Hey, just posted some more thoughts about this on another video done by Eddbud but I'll post here:
Took the NB SC Trail on its first run of 10 miles yesterday with half on the road and half on the trail. One word description is "Wow!" This just may be the most versatile running shoe ever in terms of how it handles both the road and trail with equal amounts of proficiency, speed, nimbleness, and comfort. I just can't think of any other running shoes that is so at home on both the road and the trail. It's like a great daily super trainer for the road and a great lightweight ultra supershoe for the trail rolled into one. That's the best concise way to describe the NB SC Trail.
I have the inov-8 Trailfly Ultra G 280 and the Novablast 3 TR for road-to-trail excursions but neither are quite satisfying for both. The G 280 isn't all that fun to use on the road for extended periods or distances and the NB3 TR is too bulky in the midsole and unstable for even light trails. I'd use the Puma Deviate Nitro 2 and Velocity Nitro 2 for light smoothened dirt/gravel trails in between some road routes and they are great for that but neither can really be considered a trail shoe.
The SC Trail is totally different. It's a trail shoe with thinner and lighter outsole with low lugs but still very grippy to handle technical trails and is quite nimble. Although very cushioned, I still felt like I was low enough to the ground to maneuver with agility. Then, when there were long flat stretches, I was able to pick up the pace easily and get this insanely comfortable and soft landings on the mid-foot and heel. The transition from handling steep hills with uneven terrains to cruising on flat stretches was effortless. I couldn't help but get a big grin on my face as I ran even though my HR was nearing the max.
Then, I got off a rather hilly and difficult trail onto tarmac and it felt so good that I decided to push it and easily got to 6-minute/mile threshold pace that I'd get from road daily trainers like the Boston 12, DN2, Speed 3, NB3, Mach 5, and Rebel v3. It reminded me of the Rebel v3 in many ways although I guess the midsole geometry is a lot like that of the new SC Trainer v2. It has lower stack than the SC Trainer v2 and lighter so it definitely has that road daily super trainer type of feel and ride to it. And as much as I like the Boston 12, the SC Trail felt more comfortable and smoother on the road at similar paces. Amazing! The SC Trail's outsole and lugs did not impede on the road at all and actually enhanced the grip for efficient toe-offs. Only one run so far but I'm already thinking this is the 'Running Shoe of 2023'.
I'll take the SC Trail on an all-trail run tomorrow with lots of technical sections and around 2,000 feet of elevation gain with some very steep and rocky hills. This will be "real" test for trail running. The trail I ran yesterday is mild in comparison. This is the trail that I'd normally use the Peregrine 13 with its 5mm lugs for extra grip and nimbleness. I'll have to see how the SC Trail handles this trail before reaching a final verdict. From the first run, I can definitely say it's the best road-to-trail run shoe I've ever run in. It's a great road shoe on its own. If it can handle very steep and rocky hills with abrupt turns and twists as well as the Peregrine 13 and Xodus Ultra (1 and 2), then NB has a real winner here. I'm already blown away but a "real" trail run will determine if it really shines on what it was designed and made for.
I'll have more to say after the technical trail run tomorrow. Taking it easy today after the intense but super fun run in the SC Trail yesterday.
@@alexkhan2000 Thanks for that extensive review my friend! Sounds like it is an awesome shoe to look into. I'll be excited to hear your thoughts after the trail run tomorrow. I do a lot of road to trail where I live, where things can go from literal road to steep, loose rocky, barely runnable terrain within a few hundred meters, so versatility like that is important. It's also the same with a lot of races I do as well, where you need a shoe that can bomb ankle breaking techy descents, and then turn on and keep you going at half marathon effort on runnable dirt roads. So far, the Catamount 2 has been the closest, but leans more techy and kinda leaves you hanging when it's time to go really fast.
@@codyjung6963 My pleasure to share my thoughts about this shoe. I feel so good and excited about the SC Trail that I want to go out on the trail run today but I should hold back and recover for an all-out run tomorrow - especially in this heat in SoCal right now. Even in early-evenings, it's in the low-90's.
For road-to-trail, the SC Trail definitely has it covered. Steep, loose rocky, and barely runnable terrains are what I'll take on tomorrow and I'm very excited. Looking at the Vibram Litebase outsole, it's thin and the lugs are on the slightly low side but, overall, it is very sticky with much better traction than it looks.
The only thing that may be a little weird is the 10mm drop, but I get the logic behind it. I typically like it at around 6mm or a little less for trail shoes and around 8mm for road shoes, but I adjusted quickly and it does help for quickly picking up the pace on flat and smooth terrains.
I've never tried Brooks shoes. I have a bunch of different shoes from Adidas, ASICS, Saucony, Puma, Nike, Hoka and trail specialists like inov-8, Salomon, and Speedland but have never tried any Brooks for road or the trail. Someday, I guess, but I already have way more running shoes than I'll ever need! Haha
I just purchased the Endo Edge to replace the Endo trail. The trail was a very big heavy shoe, weighing 320g in a US9 UK8. The selling point for me with the Edge was that in my men's size US9, UK8, Saucony list in their specs that they weigh only 255g. I was disappointed when I weighed them at 275g and 278g. This was when they were brand new out of the box. That's quite a difference! Other shoes I have weighed are almost identical to the manufacturers claims so it's not my digital scales that are out. How can this be the case?
Anyone else sad like me and have found the same? 😆
I am planning to buy the edge 2 but it has 6.mm drop and I am a heel striker with a 8.mm drop main, maybe I will need to customize it and add an 2mm insole or pad down there, how good is in therms of energy return foam,plate and speed_ and how about for long distance
they weight almost the same less 2 gram as the 280gram ultrafly
@@ssportslivetvstreaming I have only the Endorphin Trail to compare it to. I don't have any other trail shoes. I have the Endorphin speeds and pro V1, Pro V3 road shoes. I feel as though the Endo Edge powerrun PB foam gives the same kind of energy return as those road shoes but obviously weighs a little more. The plate doesn't feel as firm or harsh as the one in the Endorphin pro 1. It feels more of a comfortable ride, somewhere between the speed 1 and Pro 3 if that makes sense. I normally prefer a 8mm drop but didn't find it a problem with the Edge. The only low drop shoe I've added a heel insert to was the Alphafly 1.
Tecton X 2
Not a super shoe as the foam is Eva based. But works well for many people!
@@DoctorsofRunning fair enough
I’d put it with them for sure with it’s carbon plates - worthy of a comparison.
@@Kvnwkr7Don't cry!
5:20 tl:dr ;)
Buy or Sell? - Super Shoes for the Trails
sell.., though I do enjoy the original Tecton’s
👍 For Saucony 💪 😍
We want Saucony Endorphin Edge 2 with a full carbon plate and 8mm drop, and vibram sole
The Nike shoe is way too expensive.
This area of running shoes industry is sketchy. UTMB podiums shows normal priced non plated trail shoes work just as good for pros. Buy a normal priced Salomon instead of this scam.
UTMB are long races, with a lot of hills, it's very different from a road runner who might specialized in various distances from 5k to marathon for example. But trail running is not just about UTMB so you could totally benefit from the Endorphin Edge to win a local 15k race on relatively flat trails. On a long race, you might want to go for something comfy instead of something racy. "UTMB is about 40% a hiking race and you only need to go at 2.28 miles per hour to get round inside the cut-off time (the average walking pace is deemed to be about 3mph, albeit on the flat)"
Very messy review going all over the place. I didn't get much out of it.
He went through: Objective of the review; Specs; Weight; Fit; Midsole; Best use; Stability; Terrain/Outsole; Final thoughts
5:20