Two Rabbis one morning were found traveling on the road. When asked, "Rabbis, where are you headed to?", One Rabbi replied, "I am going to Yeshiva, to teach the Torah to my students". The other Rabbi answered, "I am going to the Yeshiva, to learn Torah with my students". The former will never accept nor allow his students to become greater in Torah knowledge and wisdom than himself. The latter will even surpass his own potentials and greatly inspire all those who learn with him.
you know why it breeds mediocrity? Because one is not allowed to question anything. Learning by rote. And gematria is simply a form of crossword puzzle to kill time and alleviate the chronic boredom of studying something a person may have no inherent ability or even any interest in . A childs game playing with numbers and letters to make stuff up. Thousands enter the yeshivas every year, forced to learn some thing they have little interest in. The real world is made up of many different people with different Gd given talents other than studying Talmud all day long for years and years . The religion forces orthodox males at a young age to study study study, when their interests may lie in something totally different. Not all may have an interest in Talmud, so why force feed something to someone who doesnt want it?
This is amazing. When we take down the human created barriers that we pilut up between us and G-d, when we take these down, G-d is revealed. May HaShem reveal His wisdom, His glory TODAY as we so very much need to SEE HIS PRESENCE and justice in this conflict. May HaShem guide us, teach us, reveal to us the desires of His redemption plan. For the sake of innocence left on the planet. If evil prevails to a large degree, so will the suffering of the innocent be measured to that same degree. LORD and Father of us all, protect us from this evil. May Israel turn to G-d in complete repentance and lead all other nations into relationship THROUGH REPENTANCE, with the Creator of all things. Shalom
What he said at the end of the interview was like a voicing of what I was thinking when I was in Yeshiva in Jerusalem. I got so frustrated and fed up that it drove me mad and I ended up going off the Derek for a while. Thank God I'm back on and going only upwards, but accepting no BS and not taking anything patently stupid(Kitnius on Pesach, stainless steel pots) lying down. Rules for rules sake HAS TO STOP!
Shalom! Just saw Rabbi Bar-Chaim's video,and your comment. I wonder if this phenomenon in the yeshivahs is something of a disturbing "zeitgeist" of our age. It seems liberals and conservatives, and the various other ethnic groups in our world, are becoming increasingly unwilling to talk rationally to solve problems and live in peace. It seems the goal is not to seek the truth but to take away or hold onto power and authority! Was this a factor in your returning to religious life?
"Rules for rules sake HAS TO STOP!" Sorry you are wrong on the matter!!! and it is precisley bec of this approach that you yourself were OTD. may you be bestowed with wisdome from above to yes create rules for rules sake so your children may never fail even a day in their life.. sincerely..
Outstanding presentation, and it is largely accurate. I have learned in several yeshivot and shuls with yeshivish boochers, and it is incredible that they a) only are interested in Gemara, and b) are ignorant of and disinterested in Navi/ Chumash. Navi is the story of our people, it is how we came to be, and to ignore it is to forget why we are in existence. Gemara is a big time theoretical mindset and intellectual pursuit that has only so-so practical application to yahadut.
thank you rabbi for this great information for i am runnig into this very same problem now while being taught now by a certain indivdual that i am studying with who a rabbi who is a gentile.
Hazaq U'Varukh. How does the Rav suggest solving this problem on a grand scale, and what options does a parent in Israel have today to ensure his or her child's spiritual and intellectual curiosity?
I ave this sneaking feeling that Rabbi Bar Chaim is anathema in many Yeshivas in Jerusalem. Mainly because he refuses to go with the flow, especially whe it comes to analysing methodology of the Kolel learning. He's ok! In fact, if I'd met him 40 years ago I'd probably still be Dati.
How do we reconcile this with the methodology of the Talmud itself? Each sugya starts by accepting that the Mishna must be correct, and the amoraim cannot dispute it. Even amongst amoraim they will generally (with few exceptions) argue upon amoraim of earlier generations. This implies that Talmidei Chachamim should accept the ruling of prior generations. Why should this change nowadays?
From my person experiences in learning Torah I can relate to what the Rabbi says in the video. In a Torah class I once challenged the Rabbi who claimed that the world was less than 6,000 years old. I politely pointed out the science had established that the world was billions of years old. I was shouted down by the other students, called an apicoros, and taken aside by the Rabbi who tried to "correct" my stupidity. In our discussion I quoted the Rambam who wrote that the sun revolves around the earth and that this was completely wrong as proven by science. He was furious with me and said that science has yet to catch up with the Rambam. He said that every word of the Chazal was absolute truth and not to be questioned.
The tale about „Adam harishon“ means, the „rishon“ of hominide types, whose brainbased consciousness arouse beyond the animalistic borders to conceive the existence of the boreh (Moses 1/2/16 ... „wajzaw“ implies an adressable person-ality). Adam was the first, who was in search, to detect among the other animals (Moses 1/2/20) „an other animal“ like him ... but he found himself being alone and naked. That was the start of „toldot haschamajim“ appr. 6000 years ago. Thora is not a science textbook. Its purpose is to teach all humans about consciousness and hashem, which we are able to conceive because as being „bidemuto“.
@Toby Henderson the lubavich rebbe said if you could stand outside the universe and see the universe fromTHAT perspective ,the sun revolves around the earth. it makes sense to me and I'm not a labavicher. got nothing against it neither.
@@jamessilver6429 well, its impossible to stand outside the universe. Did Schneerson travel outside of the universe and observe ? This is a patently ridiculous strawman argument based on an inintially faulty conjecture, then an "opinion" of some rabbi is given. Wonderful....just wonderful
They still claim their Seder Olam is true, even though 168 years seem to be missing, against all scholarly consensus. How in the world do they make the bizarre claim that the Persian dynasty only lasted 42 years, instead of the universally accepted 205 years?
@BertGraef G-d stands outside the universe( and in the universe).the torah is the blueprint of creation.its also G-ds will,wich extends beyond creation,as does Torah.
3:00 i strongly disagree, in my experience people do question in this way in kollel, even when learning halacha. I think the rabbi is confusing the idea of intellectual dishonesty and the respect for precedent and the established halacha which has been accepted by generation. In terms of being lenient where previous generations practically accepted to be strict in certain halochos cannot be reversed. This is based a couple of accepted principles. However when the issue is not a matter of leniency on a clearly established practice, then i would agree that there is flexibility.
I am not understading what the rabbi is saying. I was a a kollel student myself for 5 years after I got married. And my critical thinking skills were only more devloped. The study of halacha is precisley about the facts of intent. And any student even on the bottom of the ladder, if he comes up with a true argument or support for his approach will capture the attention of everyone..
Oven of Akhnai is a Talmudic tale where the rabbis managed to circumvent Gd himself and make themselves the sole authorities of the religion and even Gd himself had no further say in the matter, citing Deut 30:12 back to the Bat Kol. It includes a simplistic fable where God himself "chuckled" and admitted his children had beat Him. Do you really believe such fables?
ari marants ... to pray is not merely giving שבח, it means, taking your reference, recalibration, day by day. That supposes, becoming aware of the fact, that you are the one, that changes and the siddur-content is the stable part. Take as paradigma a staircase. Some are running downwards easy, without thinking, skilled in body balance and coordination. Others are keeping in mind, that a handrail is implemented and accessible in case of need, but they run too. Others go downwards, touching the handrail with their fingertips only, and others have to grip the handrail at each step. Sidur is the handrail, the staircase is jaacobs sulam. If you become aware of yourself, its on you. That self awareness is precondition of starting any prayer. Its the attitude to yourself, that you freely and highly individually choose, 3times a day. Life is open, not prefabricated, not granted, read Haftara Chason,Jesaja 1, 11 ...
You start with a false assumption that "statistically it makes no difference". There are those among us who have the ability to pray for anything and have it come to pass, just in the same ways as the rabbis of old, who stared at a person and was able to kill them. Do you mean that if a person should pray for another to drop dead and this occurs in the place, time, and manner asked, that this act does nothing at all in a large scale? A type of nihilism where lives do not matter?
You're asking why doesn't hashem give you whatever you want, when you want and the way you want? I would be impressed to see in study that could seriously take these parameters into consideration. Please link to a study that you believe proves prayer "statistically" doesn't give results.
Chas v'sholem that a yeshiva bochur should or does behave like an apikoros when learning Talmud. A yeshiva bochur has complete emunah that the text he is learning is true. His faith in G-d's wisdom is what drives him. Does he understand the text, i.e. does he understand Hashem's wisdom? Often times not. Therefore, he is driven to find answers and make the text consistent for himself and others. But the fundamental postulate is that what he is learning is true. This is the exact opposite of apikorsus. So much criticism of Klal Yisrael (not only in this video), particularly Jews who are dedicating their lives to Torah, does none of us any good.
The Talmud is discussions snd debates on the Torah and is this important to study. But the Talmud is not the Torah itself. It can not be and never will be the Torah.
Never mind the actual content of the talk -- I won't even address that. But the *tone* of the facilitator, especially, and of the primary speaker, as well, are so horribly lacking in emotional expression, enthusiasm, and spontaneity, that listening to them is downright painful. The former could make a good living recording audio telephone directories for the blind. And the latter -- conducting funerals and unveilings.
Wow. I can't believe you said this! He is extremely smart and thoughtful and interesting! Those "charismatic "leaders are many times just pretending, fooling sheeple. Their personal life is different story many times!
Disagree with what, Achi? Sounding like the representation of what is mentioned in this video. Surely you would not question R’Elyashiv and thus not receive an answer. Do you represent Noachide? He didn't question either. May you be blessed to see the wisdom of questioning most respected people. Note the mutually beneficial relationship between R’Yohanan and R’Lakish. As our Patriarchs asked questions to Hashem, how much more should Children of Israel ask our esteemed fellow?
17.7.19. Jesus Christ was the *"Jews' Spiritual Copernicus"!* The enormous importance of the new, but rejected, Spiritual Knowledge Jesus gave to the Jews infinitely surpasses that which Copernicus gave to Astronomy. For example, which Rabbi, or Yeshiva, has seriously considered Jesus' Masterpiece composition of "The Lord's Prayer", which provides *the key to The Kingdom of God and everything* for an earnest seeking person?* And look how the most intelligent Jews of that time treated Jesus! And look how the Yeshivot's most intelligent and highest spiritual Jews of our time receive Him (not!)! However, perhaps all will not be irretrievably lost *if* we heed our only hope and *"Advocate"* sent by Jesus Christ, *"He,* The Spirit of The Truth"...., in good time! John 16:13-17!
On point, if copernicus is a gentile, makes sense that jesus is the jewish copernicus, because the new testament writings are all creations and canonized by ROMAN scholars, shut up already and throw you're stolen Bible away
Seriously, why are you here? I mean this. Are you so lacking confidence in what you believe, that you must badger others who are happy with their beliefs? Do you not realize how weak that is?
@@johnnyboy3357I see your point. I would also like to add that thr point this Rabbi is making is that we loose insight and revelation when we become stiffnecked and are not able to hear new insight. If we remain in the wisdom of the past without looking for wisdom FROM THE FUTURE we remain in the past. There have been many things corrupted because wisdom and growth is stunted by tradition and fear of the unknown. I challenge a rabbi, any rabbi, THIS RABBI to contact me about this in a further conversation. I believe he is on to something that will be GREAT REVELATION. May HaShem see our hearts as pure and show us how to move from the past into the future through the Torah.
@@goldengun9970 Even the sages knew that the time had come and gone for Messiah. So they had to make excuses for the "failure", and you all ended up with thier Talmud. So you studied that endlessly for the next 1800 years and still no Messiah? Maimonides, your great torah scholar promised moschich was just around the corner. That was 900 years ago. Still so sure about your Talmud?
Two Rabbis one morning were found traveling on the road. When asked, "Rabbis, where are you headed to?", One Rabbi replied, "I am going to Yeshiva, to teach the Torah to my students". The other Rabbi answered, "I am going to the Yeshiva, to learn Torah with my students".
The former will never accept nor allow his students to become greater in Torah knowledge and wisdom than himself. The latter will even surpass his own potentials and greatly inspire all those who learn with him.
Great story. "When you teach, you learn." Having a know it all attitude is off the path. Fight it most every day. Preaching to myself first.
How hard is it to study 5 books of Moses?
you know why it breeds mediocrity? Because one is not allowed to question anything. Learning by rote. And gematria is simply a form of crossword puzzle to kill time and alleviate the chronic boredom of studying something a person may have no inherent ability or even any interest in . A childs game playing with numbers and letters to make stuff up. Thousands enter the yeshivas every year, forced to learn some thing they have little interest in. The real world is made up of many different people with different Gd given talents other than studying Talmud all day long for years and years . The religion forces orthodox males at a young age to study study study, when their interests may lie in something totally different. Not all may have an interest in Talmud, so why force feed something to someone who doesnt want it?
I really appreciate Rabbi David Bar-Hayim he is a straight shooter and really tells it like it is!
This is amazing. When we take down the human created barriers that we pilut up between us and G-d, when we take these down, G-d is revealed.
May HaShem reveal His wisdom, His glory TODAY as we so very much need to SEE HIS PRESENCE and justice in this conflict. May HaShem guide us, teach us, reveal to us the desires of His redemption plan. For the sake of innocence left on the planet. If evil prevails to a large degree, so will the suffering of the innocent be measured to that same degree. LORD and Father of us all, protect us from this evil. May Israel turn to G-d in complete repentance and lead all other nations into relationship THROUGH REPENTANCE, with the Creator of all things. Shalom
What he said at the end of the interview was like a voicing of what I was thinking when I was in Yeshiva in Jerusalem. I got so frustrated and fed up that it drove me mad and I ended up going off the Derek for a while. Thank God I'm back on and going only upwards, but accepting no BS and not taking anything patently stupid(Kitnius on Pesach, stainless steel pots) lying down. Rules for rules sake HAS TO STOP!
Shalom! Just saw Rabbi Bar-Chaim's video,and your comment. I wonder if this phenomenon in the yeshivahs is something of a disturbing "zeitgeist" of our age. It seems liberals and conservatives, and the various other ethnic groups in our world, are becoming increasingly unwilling to talk rationally to solve problems and live in peace. It seems the goal is not to seek the truth but to take away or hold onto power and authority! Was this a factor in your returning to religious life?
SAME HAPPENED TO ME IN JERUSALEM. Fed up. Thanks for sharing.
"Accepting no BS...".Lol! You'll probably be a Rosh Yeshivah one day!
"Rules for rules sake HAS TO STOP!" Sorry you are wrong on the matter!!! and it is precisley bec of this approach that you yourself were OTD. may you be bestowed with wisdome from above to yes create rules for rules sake so your children may never fail even a day in their life.. sincerely..
@@samuelmoskowitz9898 too many rules makes one live in a box with limited awareness. We are here to expand and create.
Outstanding presentation, and it is largely accurate. I have learned in several yeshivot and shuls with yeshivish boochers, and it is incredible that they a) only are interested in Gemara, and b) are ignorant of and disinterested in Navi/ Chumash. Navi is the story of our people, it is how we came to be, and to ignore it is to forget why we are in existence. Gemara is a big time theoretical mindset and intellectual pursuit that has only so-so practical application to yahadut.
I agree with you rabbi. %100
If they study the torah plus other subject and combined whit sport or military exercises you will obtain a balance individual in society.
well, surprise surprise .... actually agree with the Rabbi on this matter
thank you rabbi for this great information for i am runnig into this very same problem now while being taught now by a certain indivdual that i am studying with who a rabbi who is a gentile.
Hazaq U'Varukh. How does the Rav suggest solving this problem on a grand scale, and what options does a parent in Israel have today to ensure his or her child's spiritual and intellectual curiosity?
I ave this sneaking feeling that Rabbi Bar Chaim is anathema in many Yeshivas in Jerusalem. Mainly because he refuses to go with the flow, especially whe it comes to analysing methodology of the Kolel learning. He's ok! In fact, if I'd met him 40 years ago I'd probably still be Dati.
If you would still have been, you can still now. Call the rabbi. Write office@machonshilo.org for details
How do we reconcile this with the methodology of the Talmud itself? Each sugya starts by accepting that the Mishna must be correct, and the amoraim cannot dispute it. Even amongst amoraim they will generally (with few exceptions) argue upon amoraim of earlier generations. This implies that Talmidei Chachamim should accept the ruling of prior generations. Why should this change nowadays?
Very well said. Sadly this is גלות התורה which dominates the subconscious of the majority of rabbis and Talmidai Chachomim!
From my person experiences in learning Torah I can relate to what the Rabbi says in the video. In a Torah class I once challenged the Rabbi who claimed that the world was less than 6,000 years old. I politely pointed out the science had established that the world was billions of years old. I was shouted down by the other students, called an apicoros, and taken aside by the Rabbi who tried to "correct" my stupidity. In our discussion I quoted the Rambam who wrote that the sun revolves around the earth and that this was completely wrong as proven by science. He was furious with me and said that science has yet to catch up with the Rambam. He said that every word of the Chazal was absolute truth and not to be questioned.
The tale about „Adam harishon“ means, the „rishon“ of hominide types, whose brainbased consciousness arouse beyond the animalistic borders to conceive the existence of the boreh (Moses 1/2/16 ... „wajzaw“ implies an adressable person-ality). Adam was the first, who was in search, to detect among the other animals (Moses 1/2/20) „an other animal“ like him ... but he found himself being alone and naked. That was the start of „toldot haschamajim“ appr. 6000 years ago. Thora is not a science textbook. Its purpose is to teach all humans about consciousness and hashem, which we are able to conceive because as being „bidemuto“.
@Toby Henderson the lubavich rebbe said if you could stand outside the universe and see the universe fromTHAT perspective ,the sun revolves around the earth. it makes sense to me and I'm not a labavicher. got nothing against it neither.
@@jamessilver6429 well, its impossible to stand outside the universe. Did Schneerson travel outside of the universe and observe ? This is a patently ridiculous strawman argument based on an inintially faulty conjecture, then an "opinion" of some rabbi is given. Wonderful....just wonderful
They still claim their Seder Olam is true, even though 168 years seem to be missing, against all scholarly consensus. How in the world do they make the bizarre claim that the Persian dynasty only lasted 42 years, instead of the universally accepted 205 years?
@BertGraef G-d stands outside the universe( and in the universe).the torah is the blueprint of creation.its also G-ds will,wich extends beyond creation,as does Torah.
3:00 i strongly disagree, in my experience people do question in this way in kollel, even when learning halacha. I think the rabbi is confusing the idea of intellectual dishonesty and the respect for precedent and the established halacha which has been accepted by generation. In terms of being lenient where previous generations practically accepted to be strict in certain halochos cannot be reversed. This is based a couple of accepted principles. However when the issue is not a matter of leniency on a clearly established practice, then i would agree that there is flexibility.
I am not understading what the rabbi is saying. I was a a kollel student myself for 5 years after I got married. And my critical thinking skills were only more devloped. The study of halacha is precisley about the facts of intent. And any student even on the bottom of the ladder, if he comes up with a true argument or support for his approach will capture the attention of everyone..
Oven of Akhnai is a Talmudic tale where the rabbis managed to circumvent Gd himself and make themselves the sole authorities of the religion and even Gd himself had no further say in the matter, citing Deut 30:12 back to the Bat Kol. It includes a simplistic fable where God himself "chuckled" and admitted his children had beat Him.
Do you really believe such fables?
I once asked my ראש ישיבה a very simple question.
Why pray if statistically it makes no difference?!
He didn't really answer
ari marants ... to pray is not merely giving שבח, it means, taking your reference, recalibration, day by day. That supposes, becoming aware of the fact, that you are the one, that changes and the siddur-content is the stable part. Take as paradigma a staircase. Some are running downwards easy, without thinking, skilled in body balance and coordination. Others are keeping in mind, that a handrail is implemented and accessible in case of need, but they run too. Others go downwards, touching the handrail with their fingertips only, and others have to grip the handrail at each step. Sidur is the handrail, the staircase is jaacobs sulam. If you become aware of yourself, its on you. That self awareness is precondition of starting any prayer. Its the attitude to yourself, that you freely and highly individually choose, 3times a day. Life is open, not prefabricated, not granted, read Haftara Chason,Jesaja 1, 11 ...
See Moses 1,28,12. To pray is a tool to correct the illusionarity of the self.
You start with a false assumption that "statistically it makes no difference". There are those among us who have the ability to pray for anything and have it come to pass, just in the same ways as the rabbis of old, who stared at a person and was able to kill them. Do you mean that if a person should pray for another to drop dead and this occurs in the place, time, and manner asked, that this act does nothing at all in a large scale? A type of nihilism where lives do not matter?
You're asking why doesn't hashem give you whatever you want, when you want and the way you want? I would be impressed to see in study that could seriously take these parameters into consideration. Please link to a study that you believe proves prayer "statistically" doesn't give results.
Critical thinking? Chas v'shalom😂😂😂
Instead of „critical“ „radical ... and rationalising the unknown“
Chas v'sholem that a yeshiva bochur should or does behave like an apikoros when learning Talmud. A yeshiva bochur has complete emunah that the text he is learning is true. His faith in G-d's wisdom is what drives him. Does he understand the text, i.e. does he understand Hashem's wisdom? Often times not. Therefore, he is driven to find answers and make the text consistent for himself and others. But the fundamental postulate is that what he is learning is true. This is the exact opposite of apikorsus.
So much criticism of Klal Yisrael (not only in this video), particularly Jews who are dedicating their lives to Torah, does none of us any good.
Nah, the rabbi is right on the money here
The Talmud is discussions snd debates on the Torah and is this important to study. But the Talmud is not the Torah itself. It can not be and never will be the Torah.
I'm sure thousands of yeshiva students would agree with the Rabbi.
Never mind the actual content of the talk -- I won't even address that. But the *tone* of the facilitator, especially, and of the primary speaker, as well, are so horribly lacking in emotional expression, enthusiasm, and spontaneity, that listening to them is downright painful. The former could make a good living recording audio telephone directories for the blind. And the latter -- conducting funerals and unveilings.
Wow. I can't believe you said this! He is extremely smart and thoughtful and interesting! Those "charismatic "leaders are many times just pretending, fooling sheeple. Their personal life is different story many times!
That IS the way to talk.
The PERFECT way to talk which is appeals only to reasoning and not to " likes" and "dislikes".
He's not a charismatic or inspiring speaker but the content of what he says more than makes up for that.
This is unfair and inaccurate.
I disagree with this person. This is someone who referred to Rav Elyashiv as shortsighted.
Disagree with what, Achi? Sounding like the representation of what is mentioned in this video. Surely you would not question R’Elyashiv and thus not receive an answer. Do you represent Noachide? He didn't question either. May you be blessed to see the wisdom of questioning most respected people. Note the mutually beneficial relationship between R’Yohanan and R’Lakish. As our Patriarchs asked questions to Hashem, how much more should Children of Israel ask our esteemed fellow?
17.7.19. Jesus Christ was the *"Jews' Spiritual Copernicus"!*
The enormous importance of the new, but rejected, Spiritual Knowledge Jesus gave to the Jews infinitely surpasses that which Copernicus gave to Astronomy.
For example, which Rabbi, or Yeshiva, has seriously considered Jesus' Masterpiece composition of "The Lord's Prayer", which provides *the key to The Kingdom of God and everything* for an earnest seeking person?*
And look how the most intelligent Jews of that time treated Jesus!
And look how the Yeshivot's most intelligent and highest spiritual Jews of our time receive Him (not!)!
However, perhaps all will not be irretrievably lost *if* we heed our only hope and *"Advocate"* sent by Jesus Christ, *"He,* The Spirit of The Truth"...., in good time! John 16:13-17!
On point, if copernicus is a gentile, makes sense that jesus is the jewish copernicus, because the new testament writings are all creations and canonized by ROMAN scholars, shut up already and throw you're stolen Bible away
Seriously, why are you here? I mean this. Are you so lacking confidence in what you believe, that you must badger others who are happy with their beliefs? Do you not realize how weak that is?
Jesus is nothing to us. It is like someone bothering you non stop about Mohammed.
@@johnnyboy3357I see your point. I would also like to add that thr point this Rabbi is making is that we loose insight and revelation when we become stiffnecked and are not able to hear new insight.
If we remain in the wisdom of the past without looking for wisdom FROM THE FUTURE we remain in the past.
There have been many things corrupted because wisdom and growth is stunted by tradition and fear of the unknown.
I challenge a rabbi, any rabbi, THIS RABBI to contact me about this in a further conversation. I believe he is on to something that will be GREAT REVELATION. May HaShem see our hearts as pure and show us how to move from the past into the future through the Torah.
@@goldengun9970 Even the sages knew that the time had come and gone for Messiah. So they had to make excuses for the "failure", and you all ended up with thier Talmud. So you studied that endlessly for the next 1800 years and still no Messiah? Maimonides, your great torah scholar promised moschich was just around the corner. That was 900 years ago. Still so sure about your Talmud?
The Nazis felt the same way about the whole nation.