Is this the Secret to Using PanPastels on Terrain & Miniatures?
Vložit
- čas přidán 2. 10. 2023
- Thanks to Into The AM for sponsoring this video and providing a great discount to my viewers. Use my link to get 10% OFF site wide!
intotheam.com/BMCTEN
IDOLS of TORMENT: www.idolsoftorment.com
BMC XPS FOAM SUPPLY: bmc.xps.supply/
ESSENTIAL EQUIPMENT: www.blackmagiccraft.ca/essent...
JOIN the "FELLOWSHIP" on PATREON: bit.ly/JoinTheBMC_Fellowship
OFFICIAL BMC MERCH: bit.ly/BMCmerch
Get PanPastels on Amazon
(USA) amzn.to/3Lvs6Rm
(Canada) amzn.to/46k9Ouo
(UK) amzn.to/3ruSNi9
(DE) amzn.to/48jW6t7
As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases
#BlackMagicCraft #Episode304 #terrainpainting
www.blackmagiccraft.ca - Jak na to + styl
Thanks to Into The AM for sponsoring this video and providing a great discount to my viewers. Use my link to get 10% OFF site wide!
intotheam.com/BMCTEN
most artist media are made for working on top of white. Think about how printers work. white paper with color inks. it's easier to mark a white surface with ink. printer ink colors can mix easily because they lack the pigments required to cover over black. hobby paints are almost purpose built to make mixing new colors very hard. BTW the best white primer out there is Dupli Color sandable auto primer, its cheap and won't "Dust" like many hobby brands.
As a college art student the cheapest varnish for pastels and charcoal is cheap hairspray it'll do the exact same thing, cheap cologne works as well.
The way you broke down your testing process and explained both the methodology and conclusion was a breath of fresh air. Well done!
I'm a doll customizer so none of this is news to me EXCEPT the sponge application! Gonna steal that tip.
My model building friends have always been baffled by my pastel/sealant/pastel/sealant method. I'm glad you've discovered a way to use it for your purposes! I'm excited to see what you create with it!
After doing some experiments myself this is what I found:
-the pastel does apply to primed plastic BUT will smudge from handling
-applying washes directly to the pastel surface causes it to absorb the moisture and effectively become a paint
-painting directly onto the pastel does cause the paint to be tinted from the pigments, BUT, it also causes this effect where it looks weathered (at least on the few pieces I’ve tried this on)
I expected them to behave something like this, similar to pigment powders, but a little less so. Panpastels are paint, which don't dry like acrylics, so why wouldn't they..
The visuals + your comedic timing of ‘Into the AM’ advertisement: 10/10
It had that classic Winnipeg vibe… *chef’s kiss*
Did we just witness the beginning of a modeling career? Was that 'Blue Steel'? Thanks for showing the trial and error that goes into your work.
Nailed it with the Zenithal Highlight. Great follow up video.
There's one technique I haven't seen mentioned at all but it's the thing I use them for most in miniatures: OSL. Give your surface a clear coat and apply one of bold shades like you would with an airbrush, then if there's anything you want to change about it you can just grab a putty eraser and lift it as you wish. Basically lets you just fine tune your lighting while not feeling like you're about to ruin your existing paintjob
And yeah, an actual pastel fixative's a better option than a varnish - it's soaking and changing the properties of the powder instead of preserving it like a fixative
Good to know :) OSL has been hard for me without an airbrush, this will come in handy
Have you tried the varnish made for oil pastels? Should work much better. Sennerlier makes a great one, its called Sennerlier oil pastel fixative. Should work without changing the color
SO blown away with how the black primer and zenithal highlight look together with those paints. Shows it's way more than just an easy dry brush technique and more like a quick paints. Be fun to see how well or terribly that translates to minis.
It’s great that you shared this exploration process on here. Many creators lock all the interesting stuff behind their Patreon walls. Part of the hobby is experimenting and you showing us your steps gives confidence that anyone can try new things.
I am really liking this return to technical basics and the innovative techniques you have shared over the last couple of months. I enjoyed all the the Idols stuff but this is far more useful to me.
Just putting together a big terrain set my parents bought me for my 35th, definitely going to try this! Thanks for the tutorials!
Seems like a great tool for scenery!
Absolutely!
Oh man, those pure white primed pieces give me real Moebius vibes! I'd love to see a (scifi) diorama made with those kinds of colors.
I find it interesting that you have gotten into experimenting with pan pastels. I've only somewhat recently learned of their existence as well and have contemplated trying them out for regular artwork. Applying them to terrain is most intriguing.
I find it interesting the hobby is so against going to a regular art supply shop and exploring things. We have entire lines of paint, purely created so you don't have to mix colors (and when you do they mix poorly because of being mixed pigment already) and for maximum value extraction from the customer base. For some reason we had inks, and then oils, but there is actually a whole shop of different stuff that does essentially the same thing in different ways available.
@@joel6376 Is the hobby so against it? I'm sure it varies from person to person, but most of the veteran hobbyists and makers I know find ways to explore and experiment with different types of not only art supplies, but supplies in general, and on the cheap for that matter. It's usually the newer folks who get into the wargaming/D&D hobby etc. that succumb to the big company marketing and end up buying a bunch of stuff that they don't really need.
This hobby is a journey and you are our guide. Thank you for testing and trying new things so we can see what works, what doesn't and how things can be combined for new and interesting methods.
Hey, thanks for the video. I always like your videos but really like the chill pacing of this video. I know content creators are always combatting the algorithm and limited viewer attention spans but I really just enjoyed the slow process of watching and testing things
"Full on Newfie" - love it! LOL Thanks for another great video!
Great follow up video love the last panel. Looks just right!
I was skeptical after the last vid, but I LOVE seeing what you've discovered after playing with them a bit more.
that was clear and concice, super Informative yet entertaining, I loved it!
Ordered some during the last video, got a shipping alert during this video, was planning on doing a black prime with zenithal highlight anyway. Boom, can't wait!
Thank you for the update and solid advice on pastels. The Zenithal one looks amazing 😮 like magic. So cool what you can do with pastels.
All your videos are a fantastic inspiration. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for all the inspiration!!
Thanks for taking the time to run all these experiments. Great stuff!
Thank you so much for these videos! I jsut got my pan pastels and I am excited to try them out!
Terrific video, and a wonderful follow up!
A technique I used to use in highschool for my art was to spray hairspray (fixative is proper but much more expensive) on my work and then break a chalk pastel in half and rub or grind the ends together. I feel you could get a fantastic dust or ash texture on terrain using this method.
Awesome more in depth review. Love it thanks for doing that bit of experimentation for us.
Great video as always.
Awesome! I still want them for sure and think they will be a staple of my crafting. Definitely gonna stick to the brighter colors.
Great 😀👍 Another pastel video 🎉
I don't work with the same materials you do (I work on paper) so I don't know how this will work for you but another thing you might try is called a "workable fixiatif". It's sold in the same art store that you get the pastels. It still darkens a bit but not as I saw here. But like I said, I work on paper. You might get different results.
Came here to say exactly this. I’d think the fixative should do just the trick and highly recommend trying it out.
I second the Workable Fixative. Blick Art stores carry it (we have a store here in Wheaton, IL.)
This was a great video. I was intrigued with the last one but didn't really get a clear understanding of where these might fit in my crafting arsenal. This was really well structured and very helpful, and yet somehow the best part of the video was still your glamour shots ...
I’ve used Dahler rowney spray fixatives. Specifically made for chalk pastels. They darken a tiny bit in my experience, but that was on paper where it’s super evident… worth a shot on terrain!
Keep this up, and you will giving Goobs a run for his money being the tabletop gaming experimenter.
lol
These pastels are AMAZING. I love to hear (from the last vid) that you can get them at Artist's Emporium, I'll have to bus down there and check it out!
If you use gouache for washes you have water as a solvent and dried gouache gets reactivated by water. So it works almost as good as oil washes but without having to use white spirits
Those have also on my list of things to try.
I think I'll get some, but only for weathering. Looks like more work that I need to get where i want to go. Really good breakdown, thanks!!!
I loved the last video, did go out and buy PanPastels, did a bunch of research on how artists use them, and have been having fun ever since! I'd love to see more videos on this topic including applying them to non-terrain pieces :)
saw the pan pastels at my local art supply store might pick some up for dry brush highlights
If youre into trying out a new sealant, I know doll customizers that use pastels and SWEAR by Mr. Super Clear Flat. It really does keep things so soft and matte even with multiple layers. It may require a couple more tests, but I havent see it 'drench' the pastels like other sealants.
Edit:Mr Super Clear Matte also works amazingly well.
No mention yet that an eraser can be used to remove the pastel. Should try it out on large smooth surfaces.
good vid thanks lee
@blackmagiccraftsofficial i really like weather/glazing/washing with straight oil paint and a dry brush, rather than adding mineral spirits/paint thinner. excess oil paint can be worked off the brush on a rag or paper towel, and tiny amounts of paint can be worked over large areas. because they dry pretty slowly there's time for really natural looking weathering or complex colour builds, blending and layering, etc, etc. oils also usually dry matte in these thin layers, and wouldn't require any clear coat, unless something would be handled quite a bit. oils also come in all the nice dull colours we want for dirt, rust, water stains and also brilliant high chroma colours.
i've really been enjoying your explorations of materials other crafters might not have thought to use in these applications 😃
3:58 to 4:18 is so satisfying. You should do an asmr sidechannel, it's already recorded anyway 😏
Thanks for taking a deeper look at these. Great new info. I wonder if they were initially created for white canvas and that's whey they react so differently to black base vs white base.
I bought the grey pack and the earth tone pack on Amazon looking forward to testing them out!
Another product you definitely want to try is Craf-T Products metallic embellishment rubs. Those things are great. You basically use your finger and rub the stuff onto your surface. It will give a nicer finish than those pan pastels although I do see the value in using the pans especially if you are going for a certain look. I'm thinking a lighter hand with them might give better results? Just a thought. I haven't used those metallic rubs in years (used them on fired pottery back then) but now that the pan pastels reminded me of the metallic rubs I definitely want to try them out again this time on my mini and diorama projects.
Your right undercoat in white will produce vibrant & bright colours. That's why most people use grey as their primer colour of choice. 😁
Being pastels, they would make good pigment powers , in addition to weathering or painting aids.
dope. so so dope.
Is that what Noofies sound like? You sounded lile you were slipping into the Doric dialect of N.E. Scotland where I come from! I have used pan pastels in model horse repaints and customs. Theyre really great, I tend to just use my ordinary chalk pastels for weathering but theyre much better if you grind them through metal mesh or with your craft knife, then use makeup brushes(which are made for powders) like you did. Mr SuperClear Matt UV Cut is expensive but good to seal. If you want to see them in action, pan and chalk pastels, have a look at Daisy Stalls amazing repaints of tiny horses, she uses them to weather her stable dioramas to great effect too! The way she builds up realistic coat colours in light layers, sealing between coats, is really amazing.
Mad Eye miniature wants to challenge all crafters to a "Make the largest DAKA ork weapon you can with the dead line of October 30ths". It is Ork-tober after all.
Really teasing the ol' plauge city arnt we?
I use grey primer. I mean, it's basiclly what you got after doing the zen highlight.
A grey primer would give you what you get where the black and white are blended at 50/50 each. It wont give you the very dark spots or very brightest, and won't produce a gradient. BUT it's a great middle ground to settle on.
You should mention that the pastels are dusty. I opened some white pastels and I looked like Al Pacino in "Scarface". :)
I did, you should watch the video 😛
So I've played around with those and found out that you can simply spray a surface with IPA (that's isopropanol not Indian Pale Ale) it fixes the pigment without darkening it.
You should just use pastel fixative. It is made so that it is still reworkable and not affect the colour. If you use a lacquer clear coat, the oil wash should not affect it.
Is there a pastel fixative that doesn't darken?
The advice on the product page is "use thin layers" but no word on not darkening the layers.
@@JasonVDM I've read good things about SpectraFix. It's not supposed to darken like other fixatives.
@@JasonVDM fixatives generally all darken or clarify pastels. fixatives are usually thinned out clear coats/varnishes, and so they kind of turn the powdery pastel surface into a smoother 'pushed down' surface. when the under colour is black, more of it shows thru than did before the pastel was smoothed out with fixative. under colour and surface absorbency make a big difference in the final effect, paper and pastel with light coats of fixatives tend to change less than non-absorbent surface like primer or plastic. i hope this makes sense, it was tough to articulate!
Thanks for the update! Though I'm wondering, you got nice results with the black + Zenithal highlights, but what about priming with a grey/ grey + Zenithal? I'm curious to see how that affects the results, to find some sort of happy medium with a darker grey depending on what you're going for.
Really looking forward to see what you do with these in the future. :)
Not sold on the pan pastels, but your gradients are super sick!
I can only do that with these panpastels, lol. No way I could achieve that with paint.
If its been mentioned I apologize. If I were to take a guess the clear coat dilutes the pigment or emphasizes the lack of pigment if you think about how little is being used.
I likey!
I wonder if you could just use one or two coloured rattlecans as base, clear coat, and apply an oil wash to obtain similar results for a fraction of the cost and time. Zenithal highlighting is made kinda redundant by oil washes, especially on highly textured resin walls like the ones you used for the tests.
It's darking because the clear coat is changing the opacity of the pan pastels. Hence why the zenithal priming is working. Spread the pan pastels on a clear peice of plastic. I've heard that mixing the pastels with isopropyl alcohol thickens it and once the isopropyl evaporates you will have a thicker coat. By the way walmart and dollarama should have a decent size bag of makeup sponges. Also, powered makeup is simulator to the pan pastels.
how would it look for stone/rocks for a quick paint ?
regarding the clear coats .... how would they react with using modpodge as a clear coat for Foam? Would the shading change?
as cool as those are I still kinda think maybe dry-brushing and using oil wash is the best. That zenithal piece turned out the best but those recesses being dark from a black oil wash would prob be even better. A lot of the pastels aren't just catching the high points like most of your work.
I know that for my crafting, I'm sticking with Apple Barrel paints, dry brushing, and self-mixed water-based washes (using Jeremy's formula).
They get me a result I like, and given how I need to make sure that spills need to be able to be cleaned up with soap and water, they are the right mediums for me.
May I ask the type of clear coat for these? Rattle can clear, or like a Vallejo airbrush?
I used Vallejo airbrush but I think any would work on the pastels.
I dont know what sort of clear coat you use, and if this would make any difference at all (because I have never actually use this product)... But there is a product I have seen the doll repainters and statuette painters use called Mr. Super Clear. I wonder if that wouldnt dull it?
I don’t use pastels myself but I know figure painters who do use ordinary artist’s pastel sticks, shaving bits off and grinding them to powder before applying.
They get much the same results using clear coats over pastel sticks as you did with the Pan pastels (try over metallic basecoat, btw) so now I’m wondering if there’s any real difference other than the ones you showed us being pre-ground so to speak (they are probably just the same stuff as in the sticks, just without the binders added and not pressed into sticks). No doubt they cost more than the sticks, but time spent grinding up the sticks has value too.
Have you also used pastel sticks? If so, is there any difference, and if there’s a cost difference is the convenience worth it?
Yea, I’ve used sticks a bunch for weathering powder (have a whole video about it). I bought these as a more convenient alternative and because you can buy individual colours.
czcams.com/video/SObhrs_JiXM/video.htmlsi=46hmfAnyZCCKaIKp
How do they work with mod podge?
What are you testing them on? I assume a 3d print? they look great!
Look up my Plague City video series. It’s from a kit.
I found a german painting channel who compared pan pastels to eyeshadow for painting on paper.
It behaved 1/1.
So it should be worth a try to use for tabletop since eyeshadow is rlly cheap if you buy noname products.
Would test it since i already have it at home, but cant rlly walk or sit atm due to medical stuff
And if anyone reads this, i see alot that people have problems with fdm layer.
Pls try out sprayclay and thank me later.
it doesn't darken it up it makes them transparent... Almost like mixing pigment into a clear varnish (which is what you're doing) makes for a transparent paint? You know, like happens if you thin any paint down sufficiently...
I am unsure what top coat to use. Mostly foam, black modge podge and paint. Going to try the pan pastels. Do I use the same top coat and can you tell me what I am looking for. Newbie.
I use Vallejo Mechha waterbased matte varnish
@@BlackMagicCraftOfficial thank you!
"Doing the full Newfy." So... Dark gray primer, white heavy-handed dry brush, then the pastel powders?
One way to try a wash without making too much mess might be to use pledge with an ink. Then lightly dampen the piece and add the pledge/ink wash. It should, in theory, flow away and want to rest in the recesses
Anyone tried these with XPS as I would like to know if they rub off easily (I don't normally seal my terrain with a varnish).
"Full newfie" made me spit-take! Ha!
I gotta be the one to ask... What are those walls that you are testing the pastels on? I assume they are 3D printed? If so, can you please point me in the direction of where to get 'em. They'd be perfect for a scenario I'm writing. Thanks...
Check my Plague City series of videos 😉
So thinking it through:
- these pastels are Oil based
- so respond to the same solvents as oils.
- rattle can is also a similar solvent.
Soooo
What about an acrylic GLAZE paint or some sort of water based layer over the PAN Patels? that wont respond to the oil solvents?
These are not oil based pastels.
Interesting 👍
I like them... I want them... But they are also not cheap!!!
😀
Or, you make sure to have a coat of varnish sealing your paint before applying pastels etc
So my question is how do these compare to colored chalk
They don’t.
@@BlackMagicCraftOfficialThey "don't" what? They are inferior or superior? Easier or harder to use? Please explain what you mean by "don't."
They aren't comparable products.
Instead of Matt coat try satin or regular clear coat
Lol full newfy. The byes gets around
Never go full Newfie.
I think I stay with cheap waterbased paint obs.
The nuances are visible to me only. My players are happy with stacking "boring" grey scatter hills and rocks using your old school method 😉.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Basically the wash and the clear coat are getting absorbed by the pastels and are acting as a binder, which is making the pastels translucent.
For a sciencey explanation… The pastels appear opaque when they are powders because they are a bunch of grains rather than a uniform substance, so light bounces off all the odd angles and gets scattered in them and reflected off them rather than passing through. When the powder is suspended in a binder, the binder and the grains of pastel become more of a uniform substance, so light doesn’t get scattered or reflected anywhere near as much and mostly passes through. When it is on a black base coat, more of the light is absorbed by the base coat, making the whole thing seem darker and less vibrant. A white base coat reflects the light, so you get to see the vibrant colors.
Has anyone ever told you that you look like A wrestler?
Once someone called me Goldberg 🤷🏻♂️
These are the same as pigment powders we already get. It isn't really as revolutionary as you are making out, except the price.
Ok
@@BlackMagicCraftOfficial Maybe I am just bored with the glacial progress of using anything except GW, Vallejo etc. Maybe I am bored with one guy picking a trendy name for a series of techniques and codifying it (not you), spawning hundreds of videos talking about it when it is, at a a basic level something artists have been doing for centuries anyway.
Sorry if that came off the wrong way, you're one of the good ones hah
Be the change you want to see
i tried them yesterday when they arrived (i orderd like 110€ worth of them).
i was completly disappointed in all applications.
please put in the future more testing into products before you unleash a hype train.
what a fail.
I showed my honest first impressions. I now showed my honest impressions after using them more.
I wasn’t impressed last week. Im still not impressed
Ok
Your right undercoat in white will produce vibrant & bright colours. That's why most people use grey as their primer colour of choice. 😁