Can’t decide between a monohull and a catamaran? A fast cruising trimaran could be the solution
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- čas přidán 8. 12. 2021
- This Marc Lombard designed Neel 43 is fast and fun to sail, simple inside, comparatively economic and could suit charterers and families alike. Toby Hodges sails one from its home port of La Rochelle. Full report in Yachting World September 20
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Interesting post saying a real sailer would sail a mono. Having been a sailor for over 50 years I converted to specifically trimarans because of there better performance and sea kindliness. They are amazing offshore really handle big seas especially well. Coast wise on exposed Anchorage is another place they are incredible when a big rolling swell comes in and you gently just rock a little unlike the mono people get thrown across the deck if they get broadside to a big swell. Hands down I prefer tri's point like a mono and really come alive on a reach. Amazing design.
how do you find a cat compared to a tri ?
Imagine waking up at night, sitting up in bed and being able to look around to see if everything is in order. This is a great design!
But really poor build quality and customer service
@@Maximus0806 Can you share more details about this?
Terrific video, really makes the Neel 43 stand out as unique. I've gotten a bit jaded at boat reviews where they immediately jump to the cabins and heads. Yes! I want to know how to sail the boat. Thank you doing exactly that. I also love boat videos where it gets into my head, "I've got to get one of those!"
I like the keel stepped mast. The abundant use of fiberglass and lack of wood surfaces on the inside makes cleaning and washing down the bulkheads fast and easy. I especially like the huge viewing port between the saloon and master cabin. No more having to sneak around the deck snooping trying to get a good view of what is going on in the cabin. Now guests or family can sit comfortably inside the saloon and enjoy the antics going on in the master cabin, fun for all. The overwhelming use of non-structural components marks this "fun barge" as having build quality that is truly awe inspiring. Neel has a unique concept with their boats sadly the implementation is lacking.
Be happy, be safe
Love this tri!
Decisive mise en place! Thank you! 🤩 It helps the decision 😏
Do not buy
I guess I found my future blue water cruiser. Love it!
Would get some extra cupboards fitted though. Won't take long before it gets messy.
Magnifique 👍⛵🤩
excellent value and great capabilities.i like the spartan look and its a trimaran 43 footer which only weighs 9 tons.you cant beat that.well done toby for finding it.
you will be finding it in Davey Jones' locker soon
@@thomaselliott573 I'm not a musician old boy.lol
A lot of very good ideas. I personally like the spartan fit out. But what's totally putting me off is the steering position. Thinking of being there in a heavy sea - no way. I want a protected place that's not a few meters above everything else.
I agree. Shouldn't be that hard to put a secondary interior helm position at that large nav station, so you can be out of the nasty stuff and not perched on the roof. Don't even have to run the lines down there, as you can run out to make adjustments, and then dash back in.
@@meadmaker4525 I would be very surprised if you couldn’t operate the boat on autopilot from the nav station, which is what you would use 90% of the time on a long passage. Aside from sail changes you could do most of it from the nav station, and if it’s a short trip you’re unlikely to choose to go out in rough seas anyway.
@@angusaltham9384 so you never need to go on deck. That is a novel idea.
I am really wanting the neel 43 as it would suite our needs perfect, unfortunately above my budget....
Ok I might've giggled like a school boy for quite some time at the "cock-loon"
Hope they will improve their build quality because I really do like the designs...
How's the performance on this? The hulls look thicc compared to the 45
Love the space and relaxing uper space of cat buy I'd want safety of monohull in storms trimaran you would think would be more popular great for famaly
Dragonfly trimarans are the most beautiful
To each their own.
What is that sweet jacket Neel is wearing?
The Neel as a concept is great - but a producer should never!!! give project the interior design of a 1 star hotel to a yacht!
I liked the video, beacuse i like the channel and presenter, but the boat would get a no from me.
I would go for almost anything else.
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I have a Lagoon 450 I will sell you, any takers????
Es un barco muy divertido pero los acabados son increiblemente cutres y baratos
For that price, why not just buy a monohull? A J-45 goes just as fast, has more space and a more usual kind of livable layout, etc. I’m not sure who the target market would be for this.
This has a view from the cabin and less heel for older people or people who might get sea sick. Although a monohull is probably safer
Yeah I don’t get Neels. Rapido/Dragonfly I get a bit more.
Does it? Maybe on paper, under ideal conditions with an attentive crew the new J could be just as quick. That sliver of confluence means you'll have to be both skilled and very lucky to out perform the Neel on the J. Add to that the caveat that the Neel is a cruising yacht and the J is a racer/ cruiser & the advantages of a trimaran become even more stark. That Neel is relatively heavy and its hitting wind to boat speed ratios that used to be reserved for purpose built, spartan monohull race boats.
As for space, I'm curious as to how you could consider the two remotely comparable? Perhaps dimensions such as kitchen and berths are similar, but beyond that it seems to be no contest. The multihull "open" layout multiplies perceived interior volume vs monohull, more importantly once once considers space for both people and their stuff, the Neel walks away. A J 45 loaded with an equivalent to a fully packed Neel would be cluttered if possible at all. And that's without considering possibilities for redundant systems not feasible in a boat like the J 45.
The J 45 is a phenomenonal boat. No question. It's among my favorite new monohulls on the market and probably my choice should I decide on a J boat.
Practically, they are completely different animals. The Neel can go fast and you can be lazy doing it. The J is meant to appeal to the kinds of ppl who value the experience and skill necessary to get the most out of the boat consistently. Pair each boat with competitive, motivated crews, and the J will be the underdog. It's not that it could not match the pace of the Neel, it's that doing so will require much more to go right to do so. If I were a betting man, the various probabilities in play applicable to one and not the other would place the odds well in the Neel's favor.
And I haven't even touched on the differing comfort levels at such a pace. The J will be much rougher under speed than its rival. The likelyhood of a wet ride in the Neel is comparably very low. On the J, should anything close to rough conditions develop ppl on deck will be getting wet (at speed). As for general "ride quality" I was under the impression that, barring outliers, there is a pretty well established consensus around a multihull's almost universal superiority vs a monohull of equivalent size when measuring overall comfort of the ride?
It's among the top reasons multihull's have exploded in popularity & are expected to continue w/ said trend of increasing market share into the foreseeable future?
Modern composites have made multihulls feasible today. Until the mid to late 90s, multihulls were an exotic formula. They were stuck being either too heavy, too lightly build (fragile), or prohibitively expensive to be appealing broadly. One had to make quite a few difficult compromises should they want more than one Hull. Whereas the monohull from inception as a racer cruiser has been in constant, voluminous development for almost (arguably more) 80 years, multihulls have had roughly 30 years and during much of that time have had far fewer overall interations to reach their contemporary form. Trimarans doubly so.
It's hard to argue in favor of the single Hull form vs its mutlihulled rivals should the goal be among any generally understood as descriptions of performance. Speed, comfort, effort required, usable deck space, usable storage space, entertainment space, etc, in every category the equivalent multihull wins out. To match such a boat with its equal monohull almost invariably requires moving to a monohull one or two rungs higher when classed by size.
Should one's considerations weigh heavily factors not pertaining to performance, the monohull regains/ exceeds parity. The superb stability inherent in monohull sailboats is high on that list. Berthing, maintenance, cost, resilience, achievable strength, and flexibility also come to mind. Steel is pretty much guaranteed to better utilized in a monohull construction. Unpredictable, punishing conditions in places nature and isolation are extreme bring the comparison well in favor of monhulls. Upwind performance too generally favors monohulls. Finally, cost brings both choices well within striking distance of the other. A monohull will almost always be cheaper to build. And the material demands unique to construction of a multihull rule out a whole world of construction materials and techniques opened should one build the monohull. A monohull can pretty much always be constructed more economically. None of this considers the all important qualitative measures that can often outweigh any hard numbers one could consider. Whether it's helm feel, nostalgia, familiarity, or holistic experience sought, preferences favoring the single Hull are widespread and resilient. Superiority is and always will remain subjective. Races, however, embody objective.
@@martigrey5872 Are you sure a monohull is safer. This is probably easier to sail fast. And I'm pretty sure this is a lot harder to sink compared to a monohull...
@@williambrasky3891 super analysis.
Good video and walkthrough. I personally think the minimalist design it’s too much of a sacrifice to get a little more performance. One of the major appeals of a Tri is the roominess, extra storage, and better layout.
This design has the kitchen in the middle of the living area, the nav station in the middle of a walk through too far to reach while sitting, the master cabin facing the rear of the boat, a less than private guest cabin, and exposed cockpit. That’s a lot of design compromises for me.
you tube Carry on Sailing, owns a Neel 51. Very few issues and from what i read most new boats need quite a lot of fixing...wood edges are std French production boat finish, never classy but work.
So since there is only 1 bathroom is the main deck the POOP deck?
Love the trimaran, just for the wife...a single wet head and lack of storage for clothes and such is a big turn-off. The single wet head is a big one. Especially for a liveaboard. I understand this is for the Charter, but would be nice to see a 43 or 45 for a couple. I know they have a 47, but the outside entrances to ama's is a no go as well.
Check out Dragonfly 😎👍
@@teop7887 , not sure enough room for liveaboard.
Outside entrance is fantastic
Nice looking design and details, unfortunately they are built to worse standards than Lagoon and Beneteau. If they sorted that out, it would be great.
Have Neels also had pretty catastrophic bulkhead issues like the Lagoons?
I'll answer myself then: Apparently not.
@@angela1984a czcams.com/video/Ba8tbK8OoFY/video.html
@@angela1984a starting at 12:20, they give their opinion, and it's not good.
@@sjd9214 That was one boat at one boat show. Someone else wrote about this in a comment below: "Neel addressed this. They admitted they rushed an unfinished boat to the show to have something to present (poor planning on their part), and a lot of the fixtures weren't set properly and came apart while people were trying to tour the boat at the show. None of the "finished" boats delivered to customers have had these issues and the ones out on the open water have been very solid. Sail Oceans has hull #1 and they've been afloat for years. They've only just done their first major haul-out to update the boat. Check out their channel for more info if you're interested."
8:18 what is right of this view? Allow us to see all, even if there is nothing to see. How much headroom? I like it and dislike it. It would need to be liveable to convince me.
no, not my boat.
This is a catamaran disguised as a trimaran and because of insufficient clearance it will bang on waves like catamarans do. Look at 0:19 to see what I mean.
Try and sail one before you talk🙈🤷🏻♂️
Maybe you can ask Bruneel why their boats don't have CE certificates?
“NEEL trimarans are certified according to CE European standards by the French Institute for Nautical Certification and Standardisation (ICCN).”
@@Zootalaws Mike, as you problably know, ICCN is not a certification. Lloyds is, and they gave it a category, Blue water cruisers always an A. And with that certification comes a number which you can check. Have you read what ICCN is?
@@ultrarekt5114 you claim their boats don’t have CE certificates. You claim Lloyds are the only agency that can issue a CE certificate. Bad news, buddy: “The CE mark is a mark that must be affixed on certain types of products by the manufacturer itself, which with it self-certifies compliance (or conformity) to the essential requirements for marketing and use in the European Union.”
Self-certifies.
The ICCN, in France, sets out the standard.
Do you even know what ICC-ISO is?
@@Zootalaws Obviously you don't have a clue. Check the Oyster certificates for example just to educate yourself. Ok I am generous here, check the websites Hallberg Rassy, Contest yacht, Beneteau, Hanse and so on. Or, check the class notations of American of Shippin, Bureau Veritas, Germanischer Lloyd, Rina. I think easily a one year read. Have a great day!
@@ultrarekt5114 it’s your claim that you need to sustain, not mine. You say I don’t have a clue, but all you’ve offered is your opinion, even when given facts.
If you want a poorly build sub standard boat that offers zero customer support when things go wrong buy a Neel
Wow, I need to get one of these……………..said no one..
The layout could have been a lot more better. Terrible use of space.
I'm going to assume that this is a joke.
@@angela1984a I don't think so
@@bumblebee240. it’s somewhat inline with other similarly sized trimarans if not better, you can’t really compare it to monohulls or even catamarans because the outriggers are much narrower than that of a catamaran hull, especially at this smaller size
Do not like the interior. Just think he’s too shabby.
Personally I would strip more out of it ....loose weight,win speed. And maybe go electric,you got the space for a small solar farm and with re-gen you would be even more free
Trimarans are such a compromise. The space of a monohull with the maneuverability of a multihull with no speed advantage. Oh and did I mention the price?
Can you help me a compromise. Please spec out a boat without one of those..
You should try one before you comment🙈🤷🏻♂️
Iv literally seen a brand new Neel straight off the line at a show and while at the show everything from steps to doors broke and fell apart. I wouldn't trust a Neel to keep my family safe.
Neel addressed this. They admitted they rushed an unfinished boat to the show to have something to present (poor planning on their part), and a lot of the fixtures weren't set properly and came apart while people were trying to tour the boat at the show. None of the "finished" boats delivered to customers have had these issues and the ones out on the open water have been very solid. Sail Oceans has hull #1 and they've been afloat for years. They've only just done their first major haul-out to update the boat. Check out their channel for more info if you're interested.
@@meadmaker4525 it shows that they didn't care if the boat was finished just push it out the door and if we get caught we will fix it and sweep it under the rug.
@@meadmaker4525 there's been numerous accounts of customer boats having a variety of failures. The last two that have done the arc have had major issues including hull leaks.
@@jackeagles7080 - Well, that's not good. I heard of an early hull suffering transom separation when the owner over-stressed the davits by hanging a heavier/larger dinghy than the davits were rated for, but I hadn't heard of other failures. Neel is still pretty new to the game, so hopefully they'll address these issues and build better boats going forward. Can't imagine anyone would consider them otherwise.
@@meadmaker4525 I remember the boat show fiasco, at that stage they were still a small yard and if they missed the show it would have been pretty bad for them as a company. As it turns out it’s had bigger implications. As they grow I’m sure they will pay closer attention to detail in terms of fit out, I personally think the hull integrity is likely to be very solid.
My 2 cents.
Anyone doing serious NM will not be bothered about speed. 95% of the time aboard will be at anchor and so the space and stability of a cat is king IMO.
Looks cheap and ready to fall apart. No thanks.
So, almost zero privacy ?
why do cats and trims allways look like chunky boxes ? 😖
Not all do. There are three other trimaran-makers: Rapido, Dragonfly and Corsair. There's also Bañuls. Bañuls might 'just' be a design-firm though, and they may perhaps only have done one boat - the Bañuls 53 tri. But that one is a beauty... The Dragonflys are as well, and the Corsair 880. The Rapidos all have low slung deck houses which for example enables completely protected watchkeeping. They are also pretty good looking boats...
I agree. Each to his own i know, but a cat is a car, a tri is a bicycle with stabalizers. Monohull all the way for me. I like to work for my fun and work within my limits. Yes cats and tris are faster. But maybe i am not as fast as when a cat or a tri gets overpowered. No warning, no second chance...just wet, very wet very quick. With no self righting. I have a dart 14. Its super fun...but when it goes wrong!! I have an international Fireball, and an 8m Edel . When i cock up the fireball falls over but i can get it upright. The Edel if it falls over as long as the keel stays on, self rights.
@@andrewbarton8525 As I understand it, bigger trimarans gradually give plenty of warning before they become overpowered. Cats on the other hand are 'a lot trickier'...
@@andrewbarton8525 Re: Looks. Se the comment I posted above yours two minutes earlier...
@@angela1984a La Vagabonde going to make rapido more popular
Open post on open bridge it's no good
Fit and finish are not there. No place for cloths or linens. I could not live on this boat even for a weekend. I could buy a 43 foot J for less that would be faster and fit in a dock.
Terrible camera work
Hummm... Let me see, how many boats that I've have watched videos on, or looked up on the Internet, that I would buy before this one, let me think... 🤔 Oh, I know, Every Single One.. Just a horrible design..
So many poor designs flaws and the worst customer service you can imagine. See below feedback from a Neel 43 owner.
I am sure the experience varies. Mine has not been good. My Neel 43, which I bought used in France and sailed to the US, has quite a few problems and so far I haven't been able to get anyones attention. Some are typical "any boat problems" but some are definitely due to extremely poor quality of manufacturing and some are design issues.
1. Top hole for the emergency tiller is completely misaligned with the rudder shaft (and other holes). This leads to the shaft being pushed to the side creating a gap in packing which creates significant leaks in high waves due to hydrostatic pressure. The water gets into the engine compartment. The leak can be so bad that the bilge pump can't keep up with it and requires manual pumping at least every 30 - 40 minutes during sufficiently rough weather. This is an obvious manufacturing issue.
2. The cabin is misaligned with the rest of the boat. There are two symptoms of that: (i) the rails for the door are misaligned making it difficult to close them properly (ii) there are some gaps between the cabin structure and the hulls (especially central ama). In addition to the sliding door not functioning properly, the gaps in some connecting areas allow the water to get through them (again, if the weather is rough). This is not possible to fix without detaching the entire cabin or at least cutting the railing off from the cabin, patching the structure and reattaching the vertical and horizontal railing positioning it correctly. Unfortunately this last fix wouldn't fix the other issues caused by the misalignment. This requires additional structural work. (Obvious manufacturing issuej.)
3. The design of jib sheet rings causes rings hitting the top of the cabin creating holes. I was able to fix it by putting rubber "accordion" cone that's normally used at the bottom of gear shifters in cars. This is a simple design error.
4. There has to be a structural issue around code 0 winch pedestals. There were some very large gelcoat cracks at the bases of pedestals which we repaired. New cracks appeared only after couple of weeks in exactly the same places. Hard to tell if this is a manufacturing or a design issue.
family sailing = ??? never being caught in more than 1 meter swell, or 20 knots, or rain, or temps under 15C.
Seriously, how about some consideration of what it is like to have to sit in full wet weather gear in temps under 10C with heavy rain and 25knots.of wind. Moving between a semi exposed cockpit in full wet weather gear and the cabin, is a serious consideration.
....I love travel but it ain't free and stocks are one way to make money.
;...I bought these:
Rivian
Amazon
Facebook
Apple
Microsoft
Apple
Never sail further offshore than you can swim in a vessel that is inherently more stable when inverted.
Have you tried to sail in one?
You really must be kidding, and you know why. Get some credibility back.