Cain was a good commander that was damaged and she eventually cracked and went over the edge, doing bad things. She meant well, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Michelle Forbes was great in the role. And damn is she gorgeous.
I always thought they killed Cain and Fisk off way too soon. It would have made some good episodes trying to figure out what place her and the Pegasus played in the grand scheme of things. I personaqlly would have loved to have seen future encounters between Cain and Laura Rossylin. There was a character dynamic that needed to be explored. Eventually they could have killed Cain off and destroyed the Pegasus in the battle of New Caprica.
Survival was never an option for Cain. She was self destructing even before the attack. The war just speeded up the process. She just took a lot of civilians and her own people with her. She murdered the civilians deliberately and then took her own people’s lives when she tried to commit suicide. She killed more of her own people than the cylons did. Taking her out saved a lot of lives. Adama was loyal to his people. Cain was loyal to killing. The cylons, her own people, civilians, it didn’t matter. Anyone and everyone, it didn’t matter what side you were on. The self hate she had going drove her to hate the entire universe and gave her the excuse she needed to justify anything she felt like doing.
Fun Fact: Ronald Moore had to get special permission from the Screen Actors Guild for the extras to chant “So say we all!” since they normally don’t have speaking roles.
And Adama wasn't? Lol. Cain went nuts. She killed and aborted civilians for her guerilla warfare. If it wasn't for the President, Adama would have done the same - and eventually mankind would have been wiped out.
Zach Avery No, Adama would NEVER have done any such thing. Now abandoning the civilians so he could fight the Cylons alone, yes he could and would have if not for Roslin’s influence.
What we know for sure is that Adama and Cain are only similar when it comes to their decisions to fight instead of running or hiding. After this we cannot say for certain how either would have reacted since their circumstances were too dissimilar. The Galactica, despite getting hit with a nuke earlier, was nearly unscathed from the opening attacks. More pilots and planes aside, tactically speaking, what Adama needed was ordnance. The 50,000 civilians had no use to him, and as far as he knew only remnants of the fleet remained. In his mind, he needed to get as he put it, "back into the fight". He didn't think the war was over, "It hasn't even begun" remember? Fun fact, even before this show came out and based on our own specie history, some studies suggest that a diverse population of 50,000 is enough to keep a specie from going extinct. So when this estimate was mentioned by Roslin that there's no one else, we have to run and make babies, I smiled remembering this fact from schooling and wondered if the show runners knew this before writing those lines of dialogue. Moving on, the Pegasus, as depicted in Razor, suffered what appears to be far more damage than the Galactica in the opening attacks. In addition, before the opening attack while the Pegasus was docked in the shipyards and receiving a retrofit, an exchange between Cain and her XO seems to suggest that part of her crew may have already been off-ship. Also, Cain mentioned in the series that she suffered a loss of 700 in the initial attack. Given all of this, we have no idea how many crew members she had left to staff Pegasus. Finally, when it comes to the status of the war, since it may have taken a few days if not over a week to repair the damage and assess their situation, as far as they knew they were the only humans left alive. Since a Mercury-class Battlestar, like Pegasus, only needs 2000 crew members, this would imply, given their losses, that they had at most 1300 people. At this point, fighting, running, or hiding would all lead to humanity's inevitable extinction. I don't know about you but if my death is certain, I'm going out fighting. And I think that's what any military personnel would do. Even after Cain finds her own civilian fleet, her actions are technically still rational. Please allow me to explain. Other BSG fans can correct me here if I'm wrong, but I think I read somewhere that this smaller civilian fleet had only between a few thousand and around 10,000 people. Forgive me for my cold approach here, but even with the Pegasus' 1000 or so crew members, 11,000 people, even if they were genetically diverse, is not enough to avoid extinction. Hence, attempting to preserve this civilian fleet is inconsequential in the long run. And given the fact that she desperately needs more personnel and materials to maintain and repair the Pegasus during its final and suicidal journey for revenge, it's understandable despite seeming ruthless why she did what she did. In her mind, death was a certainty, and she wanted to hurt the Cylons as much as possible before humanity faded into non-existence. The real and most critical turning point in her character comes when she finds Adama and the rest of the fleet. At this point everything changes, death is no longer a certainty, there are enough humans left to start over, and she no longer needs to fight an un-winnable war. But I think at this point, she had been so consumed with revenge and hatred from her lover's betrayal that she placed her hate for the Cylons above humanity's salvation. She or someone with authority (the ship's' doctor maybe?) should have recognized that she was mentally and emotionally compromised, making her unfit for duty, and immediately relieving her of command. However, whatever structure that existed to do this was gone. Hence, why she needed to die in order to keep humanity safe. It's so interesting to put all this in perspective. I think the show runners wanted to use Cain to show what Adama would have been without Roslin, but I would argue that even with a Roslin character, her fate would have been nearly the same.
Cain was just bad. Murdered civilians for the joy of it. Abused her own crew before the attack for fun. Ran away from her responsibilities to commit suicide. Tortured prisoners for fun. No loyalty or principles whatsoever. Her failure to save her sister gave her the self hate that drove her to destroy everyone and everything around her when given the opportunity. She was given the name to signify what she was. Evil personified.
Adama was corrupt as frack. Gaius Balter hit the nail on the head when he asked Chief Tyrol, "Do you think the fleet will be led by anyone not named Adama" How many non Caprican, Tauron were put im command positions?
The decisiin of roslin the beginning to gather all the ships together nearly destroyed the human civilazation. He gathered all the civilian ship in one place . The cylon intercepted the fllery and destroyed the half of the fleet...
As for adama it was ready to fight alone the cylons. He changed his mind . It was a wring decision. You cant have elections or president in time of such kind of disaster.. the end was the destruction of humsn civilazation..
Cain gave the best speech she could but she should have this instead: "To my brothers and sisters aboard Pegasus, and YES I said brothers and sisters because as of right now, WE may be all that is left of the once great 12 Colonies of Kobol. Our worlds, our cities, our families, have been destroyed by an enemy that will give us no quarter, show us no mercy, and will NOT be satisfied until each and every one of us remaining is dead. So I ask you as the last remnants of the 12 Colonies of Kobol to join me now, not in an act of petty vengeance for what has been unleashed upon us, but as the final testament of humankind's will to survive!!! Our home the Pegasus, will blaze a trail across space unleashing Hades greatest fury against an enemy both of flesh, and technology. We WILL show NO mercy to the Cylons!!! We will give them no space to hide in!! And when the final Cylon bleeds it's vile fluids upon this deck we shall rebuild our great humanity!! No longer as 12 Colonies, but one mighty race!! One sword whose children will never know the eternal pain that the Cylons have wrought upon us!! So as of now, this vessel stands at battle ready, and I know in my heart each and everyone of you who crew this mighty Battlestar will give your last breath to defend her and those she carries. And as your Admiral, I pledge my last breath upon the ashes of the Cylon Empire. So say I. SO SAY WE ALL!!!!!!!
Nah, it’s way off point for the character. She KNEW and lived her a status. Even to the point Of ordering executions of Adama’s crew members without using a jury
Well to be honest, at this point they had no clue if there was anyone else alive, and since there was only a couple thousand of them, humanity was bound to go extinct as there isn’t enough of them to continue the human race. And since humanity is doomed (in their opinion) and they have a warship they might as well us it. Plus the fact that basically everyone they knew that wasn’t on the ship is now dead which leads a good portion of people to want revenge, after all if someone killed my family and friends I would hunt them down
Her heart is in the right place, I'm sure we can understand why she feels the way she does, but sometimes you gotta accept your loses and run. Fighting a battle you sure to loose is stupid.
in comics she loses almost every wargame against the smaller vessel type Valkyrie Class Battlestar and then in series Adama says to The President that he wouldn't count on the Pegasus cuz he knew she don't know how to use Mercury Class Battlestar
I never liked the phrase: "so say we all". For one human being to assume to speak for everyone else, and then use it as a chant of coercement to get everybody to have to say the same thing, I believe is an infringement of what humanity really stands for.
It could be viewes that way. But it could also be we all say thing because we believe in it and we are united behind what we are saying. But i ca. Also 100% see a culty mind behind it too
It has to be used in appropriate, solemn settings and carefully. But the idea of it is the same as many real-world rough equivalents ("amen", Pledge of Allegiance, chanting "U-S-A" or "God save the King/Queen" etc) where there is a desire to feel and express solidarity. In this case, they have been through a collective trauma and in response, they are responding in an expression of resolve and unity. Whether it's "good" or "bad," it is what people do.
@@highlander723 @Zach Jones sigh...... I wish i could offer you both something to drink, and some common ground to make our differences seem less important than we give them credit for. You are both from one of the greatest countries in the world, and your countrymen do you all a great injustice by getting co opted by the forces of evil. Whilst i agree in principal with Highlander, it must be recognized that politics is very very dirty indeed, and both sides are guilty of something. Whilst the Democrats spend billions of dollars trying to derail Republicans and Donald Trump, who is the real victim of all this partisanship? You, your friends, your families, your loved ones. YOU!!!! I had my gripes with Republicans sure, for example Ted Cruz always "talked" a good game, but when push comes to shove he seems to vanish, but maybe thats my perception. But the worst part of it all was a deleted tweet, posted by AOC herself. In short, she said businesses need to be closed down till november, thriving businesses and a good economy will get Trump re elected. So AOC has spelled it out very clear for everyone to see, she and her squad, and probably many many more democrats are willing to sacrifice American lives for their own selfish ends. They do not care if you lose your business, do not care if you lose your job, do not care if you lose your home, do not care if you lose your life - unless it can be politically spun in a way to attack Donald Trump and hurt the Republicans. AOC says half of congress nearly lost their lives......bullshit! rewind to the 80's when actual domestic terrorists detonated bombs. One of the convicted ring leaders was then pardoned by Bill Clinton, allegedly his last act but i do not know about that. Allegedly, 30 plus years later that terrorist is on the board for BLM or Antifa, aka domestic terrorist groups. lots of businesses are forced to close for good, who are the victims? Americans, not politicians, many politicians by their very partisanship end up forfeiting their nationality because they spew hatred and policies you might have expected in Soviet Stalins USSR..... or Mao's China!
@@zachjones6944 How many of them do you really know on a deep level? A few measly examples you have witnessed along your travels has convinced you that your statement is a fact when applied to the broader spectrum? You do not serve yourself well by painting the armed side of your country as evil people, the truth is that they have to be armed to protect themselves from sociopaths that believe people who disagree with them are the enemy and want to march them off to the gas chamber. Come on man. You dont really believe Joe got more votes than voters in Georgia do you? You dont really believe that Joe got more votes than Obama do you? Joe couldn't even get a crowd, but Trump filled stadiums over and over and over again. So then you blame Trump supporters for spreading covid because they went to rallys, well i am sorry but you cannot use that as a weapon to prevent someone from campaigning for office. The people have a right to listen, and they have a right to have their voices heard, but i am sure the Democrats will soon enough end all free speech in America. Ah well, it is very interesting watching America from the UK, either way the west is fucked unless something dramatic happens soon xD
This speech was a mirror image of the “Find Earth” speech Adama gave. But with Cain, there was a different solution.
Cain was a good commander that was damaged and she eventually cracked and went over the edge, doing bad things.
She meant well, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Michelle Forbes was great in the role. And damn is she gorgeous.
Some of those "So say we all's" were a bit half hearted. I bet a lot of them were thinking, "let's run for a bit" .
I always thought they killed Cain and Fisk off way too soon. It would have made some good episodes trying to figure out what place her and the Pegasus played in the grand scheme of things. I personaqlly would have loved to have seen future encounters between Cain and Laura Rossylin. There was a character dynamic that needed to be explored. Eventually they could have killed Cain off and destroyed the Pegasus in the battle of New Caprica.
Peace was never an option
Survival was an option.
Survival was never an option for Cain. She was self destructing even before the attack. The war just speeded up the process. She just took a lot of civilians and her own people with her. She murdered the civilians deliberately and then took her own people’s lives when she tried to commit suicide. She killed more of her own people than the cylons did. Taking her out saved a lot of lives. Adama was loyal to his people. Cain was loyal to killing. The cylons, her own people, civilians, it didn’t matter. Anyone and everyone, it didn’t matter what side you were on. The self hate she had going drove her to hate the entire universe and gave her the excuse she needed to justify anything she felt like doing.
@@richardbeckenbaugh1805 based.
Fun Fact: Ronald Moore had to get special permission from the Screen Actors Guild for the extras to chant “So say we all!” since they normally don’t have speaking roles.
That's an absolutely retarded thing to ask permission for.
@@dynestis2875 it's a highly controlling organization.
Gina nodding along while thinking “shit shit shit fuck shit this is bad this is bad shit fuck shit”
A very different turn of events then on the Galactica. I say that the President changed Adamas objective for the better.
Robinson Jones No, Admiral Cain was a leader
And Adama wasn't? Lol. Cain went nuts. She killed and aborted civilians for her guerilla warfare. If it wasn't for the President, Adama would have done the same - and eventually mankind would have been wiped out.
Zach Avery No, Adama would NEVER have done any such thing. Now abandoning the civilians so he could fight the Cylons alone, yes he could and would have if not for Roslin’s influence.
@@josefadama2087 Admiral Cain was stupid as a leader. Obviously the imperative was survival at that point.
What we know for sure is that Adama and Cain are only similar when it comes to their decisions to fight instead of running or hiding. After this we cannot say for certain how either would have reacted since their circumstances were too dissimilar. The Galactica, despite getting hit with a nuke earlier, was nearly unscathed from the opening attacks. More pilots and planes aside, tactically speaking, what Adama needed was ordnance. The 50,000 civilians had no use to him, and as far as he knew only remnants of the fleet remained. In his mind, he needed to get as he put it, "back into the fight". He didn't think the war was over, "It hasn't even begun" remember? Fun fact, even before this show came out and based on our own specie history, some studies suggest that a diverse population of 50,000 is enough to keep a specie from going extinct. So when this estimate was mentioned by Roslin that there's no one else, we have to run and make babies, I smiled remembering this fact from schooling and wondered if the show runners knew this before writing those lines of dialogue. Moving on, the Pegasus, as depicted in Razor, suffered what appears to be far more damage than the Galactica in the opening attacks. In addition, before the opening attack while the Pegasus was docked in the shipyards and receiving a retrofit, an exchange between Cain and her XO seems to suggest that part of her crew may have already been off-ship. Also, Cain mentioned in the series that she suffered a loss of 700 in the initial attack. Given all of this, we have no idea how many crew members she had left to staff Pegasus. Finally, when it comes to the status of the war, since it may have taken a few days if not over a week to repair the damage and assess their situation, as far as they knew they were the only humans left alive. Since a Mercury-class Battlestar, like Pegasus, only needs 2000 crew members, this would imply, given their losses, that they had at most 1300 people. At this point, fighting, running, or hiding would all lead to humanity's inevitable extinction. I don't know about you but if my death is certain, I'm going out fighting. And I think that's what any military personnel would do. Even after Cain finds her own civilian fleet, her actions are technically still rational. Please allow me to explain. Other BSG fans can correct me here if I'm wrong, but I think I read somewhere that this smaller civilian fleet had only between a few thousand and around 10,000 people. Forgive me for my cold approach here, but even with the Pegasus' 1000 or so crew members, 11,000 people, even if they were genetically diverse, is not enough to avoid extinction. Hence, attempting to preserve this civilian fleet is inconsequential in the long run. And given the fact that she desperately needs more personnel and materials to maintain and repair the Pegasus during its final and suicidal journey for revenge, it's understandable despite seeming ruthless why she did what she did. In her mind, death was a certainty, and she wanted to hurt the Cylons as much as possible before humanity faded into non-existence. The real and most critical turning point in her character comes when she finds Adama and the rest of the fleet. At this point everything changes, death is no longer a certainty, there are enough humans left to start over, and she no longer needs to fight an un-winnable war. But I think at this point, she had been so consumed with revenge and hatred from her lover's betrayal that she placed her hate for the Cylons above humanity's salvation. She or someone with authority (the ship's' doctor maybe?) should have recognized that she was mentally and emotionally compromised, making her unfit for duty, and immediately relieving her of command. However, whatever structure that existed to do this was gone. Hence, why she needed to die in order to keep humanity safe. It's so interesting to put all this in perspective. I think the show runners wanted to use Cain to show what Adama would have been without Roslin, but I would argue that even with a Roslin character, her fate would have been nearly the same.
Cain was a badass,,,,
Cain was just bad. Murdered civilians for the joy of it. Abused her own crew before the attack for fun. Ran away from her responsibilities to commit suicide. Tortured prisoners for fun. No loyalty or principles whatsoever. Her failure to save her sister gave her the self hate that drove her to destroy everyone and everything around her when given the opportunity. She was given the name to signify what she was. Evil personified.
What out President Rosolin this is what Adama would have been
Cain was ruthless, while Adama have a heart and care for everyone under his command.
Adama was corrupt as frack. Gaius Balter hit the nail on the head when he asked Chief Tyrol, "Do you think the fleet will be led by anyone not named Adama"
How many non Caprican, Tauron were put im command positions?
@josefadama2087 who cares what balter thinks he was super corrupt at least adama listen to his crew that why he was better to lead.
The decisiin of roslin the beginning to gather all the ships together nearly destroyed the human civilazation. He gathered all the civilian ship in one place . The cylon intercepted the fllery and destroyed the half of the fleet...
So say we all.
As for adama it was ready to fight alone the cylons. He changed his mind . It was a wring decision. You cant have elections or president in time of such kind of disaster.. the end was the destruction of humsn civilazation..
Cain gave the best speech she could but she should have this instead: "To my brothers and sisters aboard Pegasus, and YES I said brothers and sisters because as of right now, WE may be all that is left of the once great 12 Colonies of Kobol. Our worlds, our cities, our families, have been destroyed by an enemy that will give us no quarter, show us no mercy, and will NOT be satisfied until each and every one of us remaining is dead.
So I ask you as the last remnants of the 12 Colonies of Kobol to join me now, not in an act of petty vengeance for what has been unleashed upon us, but as the final testament of humankind's will to survive!!! Our home the Pegasus, will blaze a trail across space unleashing Hades greatest fury against an enemy both of flesh, and technology. We WILL show NO mercy to the Cylons!!! We will give them no space to hide in!! And when the final Cylon bleeds it's vile fluids upon this deck we shall rebuild our great humanity!! No longer as 12 Colonies, but one mighty race!! One sword whose children will never know the eternal pain that the Cylons have wrought upon us!! So as of now, this vessel stands at battle ready, and I know in my heart each and everyone of you who crew this mighty Battlestar will give your last breath to defend her and those she carries. And as your Admiral, I pledge my last breath upon the ashes of the Cylon Empire. So say I.
SO SAY WE ALL!!!!!!!
This is an amazing speech! I can’t deny that I first read it in Cain’s voice.
Nah, it’s way off point for the character. She KNEW and lived her a status. Even to the point Of ordering executions of Adama’s crew members without using a jury
No
Naaaah
I'd like to see a story about how Cain got her command. Don't feel like she earned it 🤷
Why?
@Tony B her mother was well connected.
@@F40PH-2CAT Its more of her family was well connected and if you include the game Battlestar Galactica Deadlock...its actually her grandmother.
What exactly is the point of revenge with one warship against limitless enemy with NOTHING to win or protect?
Well to be honest, at this point they had no clue if there was anyone else alive, and since there was only a couple thousand of them, humanity was bound to go extinct as there isn’t enough of them to continue the human race. And since humanity is doomed (in their opinion) and they have a warship they might as well us it. Plus the fact that basically everyone they knew that wasn’t on the ship is now dead which leads a good portion of people to want revenge, after all if someone killed my family and friends I would hunt them down
What was the alternative? Lay down and die?
I'd rather be under Cain then adama
Than you probably be dead!
Are you sure about that?
Her heart is in the right place, I'm sure we can understand why she feels the way she does, but sometimes you gotta accept your loses and run. Fighting a battle you sure to loose is stupid.
in comics she loses almost every wargame against the smaller vessel type Valkyrie Class Battlestar and then in series Adama says to The President that he wouldn't count on the Pegasus cuz he knew she don't know how to use Mercury Class Battlestar
So say we all
Cain did nothing wrong
cain is my waifu
I’d follow Cain into hell and back
@@merrt034th8 and beat up Lucifer while there.
@@merrt034th8 The Pegasus did Cain proud by taking as many Toasters as it could with it when it finally marched into hell.
She had civilians that didn't want to leave their family executed
I never liked the phrase: "so say we all". For one human being to assume to speak for everyone else, and then use it as a chant of coercement to get everybody to have to say the same thing, I believe is an infringement of what humanity really stands for.
It could be viewes that way. But it could also be we all say thing because we believe in it and we are united behind what we are saying. But i ca. Also 100% see a culty mind behind it too
It has to be used in appropriate, solemn settings and carefully. But the idea of it is the same as many real-world rough equivalents ("amen", Pledge of Allegiance, chanting "U-S-A" or "God save the King/Queen" etc) where there is a desire to feel and express solidarity. In this case, they have been through a collective trauma and in response, they are responding in an expression of resolve and unity. Whether it's "good" or "bad," it is what people do.
Republicans 2021
Interesting....Conservatives tend to be social darwinists.
@@zachjones6944 You think we're going to forget that you people stole the election not likely
@@highlander723 @Zach Jones
sigh......
I wish i could offer you both something to drink, and some common ground to make our differences seem less important than we give them credit for.
You are both from one of the greatest countries in the world, and your countrymen do you all a great injustice by getting co opted by the forces of evil.
Whilst i agree in principal with Highlander, it must be recognized that politics is very very dirty indeed, and both sides are guilty of something.
Whilst the Democrats spend billions of dollars trying to derail Republicans and Donald Trump, who is the real victim of all this partisanship? You, your friends, your families, your loved ones. YOU!!!!
I had my gripes with Republicans sure, for example Ted Cruz always "talked" a good game, but when push comes to shove he seems to vanish, but maybe thats my perception.
But the worst part of it all was a deleted tweet, posted by AOC herself.
In short, she said businesses need to be closed down till november, thriving businesses and a good economy will get Trump re elected.
So AOC has spelled it out very clear for everyone to see, she and her squad, and probably many many more democrats are willing to sacrifice American lives for their own selfish ends.
They do not care if you lose your business, do not care if you lose your job, do not care if you lose your home, do not care if you lose your life - unless it can be politically spun in a way to attack Donald Trump and hurt the Republicans.
AOC says half of congress nearly lost their lives......bullshit!
rewind to the 80's when actual domestic terrorists detonated bombs.
One of the convicted ring leaders was then pardoned by Bill Clinton, allegedly his last act but i do not know about that.
Allegedly, 30 plus years later that terrorist is on the board for BLM or Antifa, aka domestic terrorist groups. lots of businesses are forced to close for good, who are the victims? Americans, not politicians, many politicians by their very partisanship end up forfeiting their nationality because they spew hatred and policies you might have expected in Soviet Stalins USSR..... or Mao's China!
@@zachjones6944 How many of them do you really know on a deep level?
A few measly examples you have witnessed along your travels has convinced you that your statement is a fact when applied to the broader spectrum?
You do not serve yourself well by painting the armed side of your country as evil people, the truth is that they have to be armed to protect themselves from sociopaths that believe people who disagree with them are the enemy and want to march them off to the gas chamber.
Come on man. You dont really believe Joe got more votes than voters in Georgia do you?
You dont really believe that Joe got more votes than Obama do you?
Joe couldn't even get a crowd, but Trump filled stadiums over and over and over again.
So then you blame Trump supporters for spreading covid because they went to rallys, well i am sorry but you cannot use that as a weapon to prevent someone from campaigning for office. The people have a right to listen, and they have a right to have their voices heard, but i am sure the Democrats will soon enough end all free speech in America.
Ah well, it is very interesting watching America from the UK, either way the west is fucked unless something dramatic happens soon xD
Oh come on they’re not that cool.