Is Baseline Plastic Really Best for Putting?
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- čas přidán 14. 06. 2024
- I'm sure you've all heard it said somewhere "you must use a baseline plastic for putting". This is something I've just taken as a sure thing. But with modern plastics is it still a sure thing. Are we actually using the wrong plastic to putt with? In this video I run an experiment to test all the different MVP plastics and see which plastic works best for putting.
Part 2 can be found here: • Which Plastic for Putt...
0:00 Start
1:03 Background
1:54 The Experiment
2:40 The Contenders
5:10 Putting (and lots of it!)
8:06 The Results
12:37 Your Turn?
13:43 Where to Next?
Music
Lemondrop (Instrumental) by RYYZN / ryyzn
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I putt with Ion putters and i have 1 in each electron plastic soft, medium and firm and I havnt noticed any difference. But I also brought an R2 plastic Ion and when the disc gets wet it becomes very slippery compared to the electron putters. Cheers for the video and I look forward to your next one!
Hard to outdo electron when it comes to damp conditions, retains so much friction.
I putt qith Ions too. Proton Soft.
Fantastic content! You have a unique perspective on disc golf that no one else offers. Most video’s seem to be “grip it and rip” which gets kinda stagnant. Keep up the great work. Always exciting seeing new videos from your channel!
Thanks. When you get past the age of 40, grip it and rip it doesn't work as well, so you have to find other ways to improve the game.
Thank you for the insights! It would be interesting to explore how your confidence level correlates with the results. You mentioned feeling less confident with electron soft (negative psychological impact), while on the other hand, you expressed curiosity about the performance of the fission, (which seems to have a positive psychological effect). Mind games play a significant role in putting, but they can be challenging to measure.
I did try to ignore what I was throwing, just picking discs out at random, except for the first of the round. However, some discs like the Prism, were hard to ignore.
This doesn't have anywhere enough attention. Need more DG content like this man, please keep it coming. If you stick to broad, unbiased, empirical evidence you'll be ALONE in this space. Please do it!!!!
I felt this exact same way about the Prism plastic. Really great results, just feels a little too slick under certain conditions. I currently use a Fission and Cosmic Medium! This was a great video, thanks for sharing!
I've always preferred premium plastics for putters unless it's especially cold weather
Some companies not even have "classic blend basic" plastic in their gategory.
In putters all is about what feels good in your hand. Nothing else matters IMHO.
The main point is that most current pros has learned putting with basic plastic and they want to keep that feel.
Nothing wrong in that!
For amateur... The feel in hand, how easy it is to release, is the crip suitable to you? And also... how long the putter last in usage.
When you have started using one putter with spesific blend it takes time to learn the new one, because the disks fly a little bit differently! So that makes the biggest difference IMHO2.
Also... Hyzer/flat/anhyzer put, spin put, push but also affect what kind of putter suits to you...
I've putted with baseline and premiums over the probably 15 years I've been around DG. I switched back to baseline recently and can say that for me it's just a comfort thing. I make as many putts with premium as I do with baseline. Baseline just feels right and for me, plus I feel like I can put more spin on em. I honestly think it's whatever you are comfortable with.
So glad I'm not the only one that thinks that the Eclipse plastic feels heavier in the hand. I'll have to give my prism Envy a shot at putting and see what happens.
It's obviously not heavier, but I swear it feels it.
I'd be interested in seeing an experimental measurement of either the moments of inertia or coefficients of friction for the various plastics. Great video mate
I've been thinking about that for a while now. I'm thinking it will happen and soon.
Came here to ask this same thing. Time for a GoFundMe to send some of these to the lab! 😂
I've only been playing for a few months, but almost immediately into my dg journey, I switch to putting with only premium plastics. Neutron to be exact. 2 Pilots and a Proxy.
I found the hand feel and cleaner release with premium to be what I preferred. Base plastics had a tendency to stick to my fingers a bit too much esp when I got sweaty.
Everyone says Id putt better with base, but the only reason I'm not a great putter is because I simply don't putt enough.
I've hit edge of chains plenty of times, and still had the Neutron plastic grab the chains enough to go in.
For me it's a comfort thing. Almost all of my Mids, Fairways, and Drivers are premium, so having a putter that feels the same and releases as nice as those is a confidence booster.
Maybe someday I'll change it up, but for now I'll stick to putting premium.
Also, premium doesn't bang up and change it's flight characteristics as quick as baseline, and I like that my putters will fly the same for a long time. On top of that, I dislike the gashes and dents that base plastics get. Doesn't feel good in the hand while putting. At least for me.
I hate how quickly I seem to churn through baseline putters. Premium plastic putters last so much longer.
Love my Electron Nomad. Sticks to chains and is straighter than Premium. I use normal Electron not soft or firm.
Interesting! Thanks for posting this. As someone with very dry hands I switched to putting with a K1 Soft Reko about 12 months and haven’t looked back. I just couldn’t get any grip or spin on my putts with base plastic putters. Took me two years (from starting disc golf) to work that out. I was totally mystified how some players (with clammy hands I didn’t know about) could just effortlessly spin the putter. I’ve actually found that this has helped me learn how to putt with base plastic putters. I also play with a Friction Glove throughout winter to stop my thumb and forefinger cracking in the cold weather, and have not noticed any effect on putting.
Wait til you see the next video. You'll be surprised even more.
Yeah I'ma a farmer with dry hands. The glow Reko works way better for 40 footers than any of my 15 different putters. Soft Nomad and banger gt inside circle but I inline spin putt flat in the circle. In c2 I putt kinda like mcbeth
Amazing Production Quality behind this epic Track. It's quite entertaining watching your putting form & Flow! Keep up the Amazing Content!
Thanks. I was quite surprised watching back my putting at high speed. Very consistent and machine like.
Live updates on the stats was awesome
Thanks. A little bit of Excel magic.
I think I prefer a gummy or rubberized feel. I think the rubberized catches strong side but will spit more weak side. When I have putted with glow glitch and z Luna, I can see the disc continue to spin after hitting chains. I also wonder if companies should market baseline plastic as just a plastic rather making it sound like it is less than.
Another really well done video! A lot of food for thought... keep it up!
Awesome video! You never disappoint!!
Love this video idea! Great content
I putt with plasma nomads. I’ve tested with the electron as well as envy’s in a number of the plastics you used (I don’t have electron firm, neutron soft, or proton). I like the additional stability of the premium as well as the longer beat it time (maintains the same flight longer). I will sometimes switch to my prism plasma envy if I’m putting into a head wind but I think there are plenty of reasons to either putt with a premium plastic or at least keep a premium version of your normal putter in your bag to help with weather conditions.
As he holds up one of my go-to putters in baseline plastic. In the color that I primarily bag. 😅
Thanks for the effort, tend to agree with you on the plastic.😊
Great video and nice stats to back it up. Pre-electron plastic I use to use Soft Proton Anodes as my main putters. Still have them too. I use to also putt with the FR of Neutron Soft Envies when they came out.
Great video! i actually putt with Mint soft eternal bullets. Not sure if any minty goodness has made it down under, but its made with MVP plastic.
the reason i switched is because the rocks on the putting 'greens' in Austin were taking chunks out of my electron proxies. I've notice much much longer life with my eternal bullets, and the gummier plastic makes them a little less OS, resembling the flight of base line plastic.
Yes, we have a limited range of Mint discs available and TSA too. Another reason I did this video was because I was interested in trying a TSA putter but it was only available in premium plastic and I fell for the "it has to be baseline for putting".
@@DiscGolfDownUnder yeah i think the debate is interesting for sure. i'm so much less worried about my premium putters losing a chunk and flying differently, but at the same time premium plastics are known to be more stable to they may react differently outside C1.
i've got the bullet in royal (electron), apex (neutron), soft eternal (proton), and sublime (plasma). i'll have to do some experimenting of my own.
Great video! I have a potential idea for a test. Most of the time people are using putters that have dust or fine dirt on them from the course. I would be interested in seeing the stats for each of these putters after dust has been put on them. Could have a bucket of powdery dirt similar to upcoming water test. Keep up the good work!
That is definitely something I've thought about. Before I started the test, the warehouse was very dusty and I noticed an effect on my putts after the discs picked up this dust. Before shooting the video, I used a blower to clear the dust and washed the discs.
If I saw a coating of dust from the course on my disc, I definitely would wipe it down before putting. The friction and chalk bags used on hands for grip enhancement are also basically a bag of dust/powder, but I am not aware of anyone who applies friction aids to their discs. It would be interesting to see how much dust it takes to alter the grip and effect the flight. I suspect it would vary depending on what is in the soil for each course.
@@thomasleary1807 for me, base plastic gets slicker with fine dirt compared to some gummier plastics.
I got my first ace with the prism envy while it was raining so I knew that would be the winner.
I've thrown the envy in most of the plastic types and prism holds the best line for me. I think the combination of plasma with a proton rim gives the disc enough of an understable turn and a reliable stable fade. It's similar to throwing understable lightweight discs in heavy plastics like eclipse.
Love your content! You always have the most informative videos about MVP!
Great video. I have two Envy's now, just recently bought one in Fission plastic (168g), my other is Cosmic Neutron (171g). I have a Nomad putter in base. Prefer the Envy for putting in general. Putting is probably the worst aspect of my game; however. I put both forehand and backhand depending on various conditions and what my general confidence level is. I'm very used to the flight pattern of the Envy, the rim depth, etc., which makes it difficult for me to try other putters (that and $$). Anyhow, thank you for the excellent content!
Fantastic analysis. Thanks for all your work. For me, feel in the hand is the only serious consideration. I prefer premium plastic.
I wish Anodes came in a larger selection of plastic cause I'm very interested in trying this experiment
Same story for me. I putt with Pilots and I'd love to try a Plasma Pilot, but it's not available.
A guy in our league putts with prism envys, maybe there's something there...
I only had neutron and R2 Ions at the course today and seemed to do better with the R2, which I usually only throw. So I was thinking about this assumption just today and then here is your new video. Thanks! Great editing etc. R2 is so slick when wet though. I have putted with the Anode, Envy, Nomad and the Ion, just experimenting, and feel a little more in control with the Ion currently.
My MVP putter journey has been.... Atom, Anode, Envy, Ion, Nomad (very briefly), Atom (again) and currently Pilot.
Great concept. One thought I had was the premium putters have less grip on the chains, though I have not seen that in my play. I wonder if because MVP putters have a softer/rubbery rim it would influence your results more. Putting with a pilot baseline vs premium would be an interesting test. I put with Pures and use my Opto plastic putter for everything from upshot’s to putting and it has always felt comfortable, but I have noticed when I hit the top of the basket it can bounce out quit far compared to softer plastic. The thing I wonder is if a zero medium (baseline) would kick out of the chains less often than the Opto line (premium) due having more tachiness?
I was thinking the same. For a future experiment I'm think Streamline Pilot vs Ohm as they are basically the same disc, but Ohm has overmould.
Hope MVP is paying ur butt for all this real world research lol. My issue with premium plastic putters (non-MVP but in general) is that even if it starts out nice and gummy if it has ANY sheen to it eventually it turns to slickness and actually is harder to hold on to (noticed this with Kastaplast plastics).
I wish and you are right. My Proton Soft Ohm is starting to lose its gumminess and I've just fallen in love with the new soft Electron Pixel. Very gummy.
Fission is my favorite plastic from mvp brands. I havent tried putting with it but love my hex and wave in fission plastic both 172g
would love to see a flight comparison video of max weight Fission discs vs other max weight plastic blends! do they fly further, straighter or maybe just the same?
great videos as always 🥏
I'm slowly building my collection of Fission discs with plans for a comparison. Stay tuned.
For me, a large part is confidence, and for me to get that confidence I need to practice a lot. Electron plastics are cheaper so I can have 20 to practice with at nearly half the price.
Premium plastics all bounce off the metal at a much higher speed than baseline does. I only throw into the chains from close by with base plastic. If I’m trying a throw in that needs a specific flight from abways out I’ll use a throwing putter in a premium. But only then or off the tee.
Idea: testing different weights of putters. Especially at distance. Maybe including the Glitch (~145g) for really long putts.
MVPs current Plasma is much closer to Innovas current Start plastic.
You should compare the parting line height of the Fission Envy vs the other Envys. I am seeing that, while discs made with Fission plastic should be more overstable, at least one video I've seen showed the Fission variant of the mold (compared to another plastic) was slightly lower, so was less stable due to aerodynamics, not weight distribution. I realize the aerodynamics don't play into it as much for short range putts, especially with no wind, but the longer the putts and throws, the more that matters.
I personally prefer R-PRo Aviars to DX Aviars because a) slightly better grip, and b) I think the softer plastic absorbs kinetic energy better, resulting in less violent spit outs and rollaways, and generally sit quicker when they hit the ground. That said I putted with DX Aviars from 2018 to 2022, and within the last year I switched to R-Pro, and I'm still feeling more confident with my decision.
Cool vid
I putt with a pair of blue plasma proxies. They look sexy, and that makes me feel good, and that makes me putt better. I don't feel that there's any difference in how well they catch in the basket
More spin and harder puts would have a greater impact, hard slick discs would maybe tend to slip the chains more than a beat in base plastic? So many factors here, need a putting robot 😅
Putting style is definitely an important factor.
just bought 3 fission proxy's, so I'm hoping fission does well :)
From 25 feet? I putt practice with anything from that distance - Any putter, any mold, any plastic, any brand, rubber, mid-range. The key is how does it behave further out. Which plastic stables out, which plastic has the grip you want to get the spin you want… which plastic is better in wet conditions. This test further out…
I have 5 banger gts I got from my dad recently picked up 2 jawbreaker ones and saw how easily they get beat in or plastic chunks out of the rim and bead just from putting and I really don’t like that feeling so I was thinking of getting the grippiest premium plastic to prevent the feeling of the chunks out of the rim and bead but havent decided what plastic to get for the banger gt
Have putted for decades with DGA’s Blowfly ll. Curious about all the new disc/ plastics available, have bought 7 new putters, let alone mids an drivers, in various plastics in last year and half. 😂 Am particularly happy with the feel of MVP’s R2 neutron Anode. On variation of this subject is the force at which putted , soft or hard. I see many young players putting harder than what was normally seen.
Yes, spin putters tend to be more forceful with a flatter trajectory. I'm midway between push and spin putter (or spush) and not as much oomph.
My Blowfly released on ever so slight anhyser would get me nice straight distance without much extra on the putt.
Your putt seems very "push style", and with that "parabolic" flight patch I bet that hand grip is more important than any friction between the chains and the disc. I wonder if a spin putter would find grippier plastic is caught by the basket better, or if hand grip/feel dominates all styles.
I'm a spush putter and also not a tight grip on the disc when I putt. I suspect spin putters may have a very different result. Would love to hear from others that might have a different experience.
I putt with electron firm pilots because I could buy a big stack of them for cheap. I am not rich enough to buy 10 prism discs that will never leave my yard.
I've putt with proton soft Ions for years. I wish they would put more in production! Seems like Ions in general have not seen much love since the Nomads have appeared.
I tried the Ion for a while and liked it but ultimately found it was too deep for me.
I'd like to see chalkly hands vs no chalk. I much prefer neutron over electron, but I also don't like chalk or dirt on my hands. I like to have dry clean hands on a clean disc. But, I notice players like Gannon Buhr with a lot of chalk, so maybe there's something to chalky hands and the chalky feel of baseline plastics.
I like chalk too and lots of it. Maybe not Gannon level.
I wonder if the harder rim of the prism envy helps to push the chains more than the usual grippy overmold. it's anecdotal, but I use stiff pure white wizards and prefer them because they seem to fight better through chain contact than my softer plastic options. could just be all in the head though
I’ve always hated baseline plastics. I switched to putting with premium plastics for the last few years and I much prefer it.
Great video! How about temperature test? Cool warehouse compared to searing heat outside or putting from outside to the basket in warehouse to minimize the wind effect? Heat + sweat + sun lotion in one test. :)
You probably can't tell from the video but on the day it started to get quite warm and it was about 80% humidity. By the end of the 40 rounds the sweat was running off me and I was concerned the sweat might start to effect my putting. However, it was more fatigue that started to affect me.
Did you notice any chances in plastic as the temperature changed? Soft plastic getting softer and so on?
I started out the year switching to K1 Reko’s but found myself moving back to their baseline plastic. In wet conditions premium plastic just loses it’s grip plus I can still get a more firm grip with baseline plastic than premium plastic. I notice a lot less wobbles from initial release with baseline plastic.
I use k1 glow Reko but if it gets wet it's very slick. I also like soft nomad. But I like stable putters so I putt harder and can trust it not to turn
I’m currently putting with k3 rekos due to their shallow feel. I have small hands so finding a putter that’s comfortable and feels good was a little bit of a task but I do enjoy it, k3 has a little gummieness to it but while still being firm
@@ethanweaver1 I wish I had a k3. Mine is a k3 hard it's okay but my glow 22 is way better
Jawbreaker Roach is pretty good my 3rd go-to
Hey i have the same shirt
Imagine if mvp made prism electron. I feel like you could get the grip of electron with premium durability
Wow...a 175g Fission...most Fission discs I've seen are very light weight in the low 160s high 150s.
You have to try the max weight Fission discs. More weight in the rim so extra gyro effect.
I'm gonna guess plasma / prism. But thats becous of the non weather factor and you are in warehouse. If I play on a dry course in the summer here in Sweden, the dust sticks to the baseline and make it less sticky, that would not be the same with plasma/prism (only saying prism since you said it's same as plasma ,never had a prism) and the warehouse is most likely a little dusty so less grip for baseline.
On the other side tho, if it's a little wet where i play the baseline keeps the grip more. Anyhow, plasma and base are best for putting off the 5 or so plastic I have tested. Buddy of mine use plasma, 950 ish player 🤷♂️😊
After watching i think i kinda was spot on. Fission seemd to work great as well. The also as you said confidence, it's way to important, if you don't like soft, it won't go in 😅
Fun vid 🤗
Also, I find the depth of Envys varies a lot. The Neutron Envys have extra bead whereas the Electron Envys either have less bead or it gets worn out quicker. The Fission Envys have a small bead from the get go, which I like. For throwing of course. Who putts with Envys?
Baseline putters feel too porous for me. Always a little gritty and it distracts me. I prefer a smooth but not slick premium. K1 soft berg, eclipse envy and an splatter s blend alpaca being my favorites.
I just switched my putters from Innova's DX to their G-Star plastic and I think is performs just as well as the DX when it comes to the chains and in inclement weather
Innova make a G-Star putter? Most of my faster discs are G-Star because of the dry hands thing.
@@dougadamsau I was searching their F2 shop for KC-pro aviars and I saw them and decided they would be a good replacement. They don't have the grip but I can use them for upshots if I need to
Jawbreaker Luna
For an MVP anode is there a close equivalent to the prism plastic. (I'm guess the plasma anode or the r2 anode?) Forgive me for the dumb question I am still learning a lot about plastics and there is a lot of info out there.
The Anode is available in Electron (base), Neutron (premium) and R2 (recycled Neutron). R2 is probably closest to Prism Plasma in feel.
Ground play
Who putts with an Envy? Aren’t they for chucking?
I putt with em.
I'd be very surprised if any pros use premium plastic for their putting putters.
Do discs spin backwards like the toilets there?
They sure do and flight ratings work opposite too 😉
I have tried almost all plastics of pure. Soft is the best easilly. I dont know why but I dont see many people putt with softies. Especially pro players.
The best hand feel IMO. I've made the switch.
Prefer grippy plastic for putters.....I miss Vibram...
I don't like electron for putting because it feels chalky, but the r2, neutron and proton all feel too slick for me. I putt with prime burst Wardens because they have the right balance of texture, rigidity and chain-affinity. They're also super consistent between runs and very available and cheap. If I had to switch, I'd go with the SS Warlock from Gateway.
I used to putt with Warlocks before I switched to MVP. It was a good putter.
I guessed plasma.
MVP is probably the worst brand to use for this experiment. I would prefer to see aviars, lunas, and P2s used for this experiment.
Why do you say that? I've played with just about every brand and every plastic and I don't believe any brand's plastic is way superior or different to any other.
Im.not sure fakiliar with the outermold plastics. If they are the same through out the lines then the difference in plastic to chains reaction wouldnt vary.... the middle.plastic isnt touching the chains so thay shouldnt make a difference in how it "Catches" them.