Awesome Prime Number Constant (Mills' Constant) - Numberphile

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  • čas přidán 17. 07. 2013
  • Have you ever heard of Mills' Constant? Featuring James Grime. bit.ly/grimevideos
    More links & stuff in full description below ↓↓↓
    Several people have pointed out the n=4 prime is 2521008887 (we missed an 8)
    More on prime numbers: bit.ly/primevids
    This video features Dr James Grime - / jamesgrime
    The Mills Proof is at: bit.ly/MillsProof
    Video supported by (& free book): www.audible.com/numberphile
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Komentáře • 1,7K

  • @singingbanana
    @singingbanana Před 11 lety +453

    Hey! (This is James *waves*)

  • @icisne7315
    @icisne7315 Před 6 lety +857

    Do a video on " what if the Riemann hypothesis is wrong"

    • @user-pc8en9lh7u
      @user-pc8en9lh7u Před 5 lety +41

      Phonzo Cisne heck that’s going to be a great watch

    • @General12th
      @General12th Před 5 lety +2

      Yes please! +++

    • @SuperYtc1
      @SuperYtc1 Před 5 lety +66

      * whispers * It's probably true..

    • @AlexandrKovalenko
      @AlexandrKovalenko Před 5 lety +32

      I agree. That would be the best video ever. _EVEN IF_ Riemann hypotesis is true

    • @luker.6967
      @luker.6967 Před 4 lety +2

      That would be a long video.

  • @Ocklepod
    @Ocklepod Před 8 lety +480

    "Wanna know what my conclusion is? That number is awesome!"
    "I know! I know!"
    I didn't know I there were people like me.

  • @2Cerealbox
    @2Cerealbox Před 8 lety +787

    "The rockstars of math are..."
    In any other field they would have named people, but he names numbers.

    • @noamtashma2859
      @noamtashma2859 Před 8 lety +25

      oh, there are human rockstars too in math too.

    • @jonathanschossig1276
      @jonathanschossig1276 Před 7 lety +9

      Ryan N In chemistry, you usually name elements.

    • @megatrix500
      @megatrix500 Před 7 lety +6

      So the rockstars would be... maybe Hydrogen and the noble gases?

    • @MuzikBike
      @MuzikBike Před 7 lety +8

      no wouldn't it be carbon?

    • @MrInsdor
      @MrInsdor Před 7 lety +2

      Muzik Bike Carbon for organic chemistry definitely, along with Hydrogen

  • @MrEnkelmagnus
    @MrEnkelmagnus Před 9 lety +421

    What if i disprove the Riemann Hypothesis ? I'd be the most hated man in maths ever. I wouldn't even get the Fields medal. They just couldn't give it to me. "You ? You destroyed everything."

    • @ykl1277
      @ykl1277 Před 9 lety +41

      +Enkel Magnus get a fast computer, use the calculated value for mill's constant and check to see if the successive numbers are actually primes. If you find 1 that isn't a prime, then there is a proof that RH is false. The proof will be in the form:
      If RH is true, then mill's constant is x. (James in the video said that they are calculating it on the assumption that RH is true)
      x is not a mill's constant. (a number in the form MC^3^n is not a prime)
      Therefore, RH is not true.

    • @ykl1277
      @ykl1277 Před 9 lety +25

      You KNOW that you are working with very precise numbers here. You would never use a simple 'double' primitive type or anything like that. You can be extra careful and calculate extra digits of Mills Constant and be sure that it is not an issue. The bigger issue is that you can't find a counterexample and that proves nothing (although evidence that RH is true, it is not a proof).

    • @coopergates9680
      @coopergates9680 Před 9 lety +4

      +YK L Can the RH be used to calculate constants for other formats, such as floor(k^(n^3)) being prime or floor(k^(2^n)) prime? I expect such ones exist.

    • @irene4733
      @irene4733 Před 8 lety +68

      Actually, it's such a famous hypothesis in maths (so many other branches on maths have rested on this unproved hypothesis for millenniums) that proving or disproving it would make you famous. MyThey would definitely still give you the medal. Mathematicians are concerned with the pursuit of truth, not what they want something to be.

    • @theresamay4280
      @theresamay4280 Před 8 lety +19

      +Irene Pretty sure he was joking.

  • @wideawake3080
    @wideawake3080 Před 6 lety +55

    "I KNOW! I-I I completely agree!"
    Made me happy

  • @numberphile
    @numberphile  Před 11 lety +36

    For those wanting to see Mills' proof, Dr Grime sent me a link and I have put it on the video description!

    • @usageunit
      @usageunit Před 4 lety +8

      Clicked over expecting some very long, in depth thing. Guys, it's only a single page long. You can print it on one side of one sheet of paper.

  • @patrickwienhoft7987
    @patrickwienhoft7987 Před 9 lety +123

    3:15 I love his reaction :DD

    • @guepardiez
      @guepardiez Před 9 lety +12

      It's even funnier in slow motion (speed 0.5). :)

    • @dfess
      @dfess Před 8 lety +3

      +Guepardo Guepárdez They sound like little kids! So cute!

    • @DaffyDaffyDaffy33322
      @DaffyDaffyDaffy33322 Před 8 lety +2

      +Patrick Wienhöft A true mathematician there

    • @fergusmaclachlan1404
      @fergusmaclachlan1404 Před 7 lety

      Actually the whole video is hilarious at 0.5 speed.

  • @javipdr19
    @javipdr19 Před 11 lety +16

    James Grimes is my favorite of all. He always seems excited to share what he knows!

  • @gtziavelis
    @gtziavelis Před 9 lety +44

    in the video there was a typo with Mills' Constant to the power of 81. he said it was 252,100,887 but it is actually 2,521,008,887.

    • @kirbyurner
      @kirbyurner Před 6 lety +7

      Glad you mentioned this, as I was about to point out that 252100887 = 3 * 84033629.

  • @logiclrd
    @logiclrd Před 11 lety +14

    I think I see what's going on. Basically, Mills proved that a factor 3 in the exponent is enough of a difference that you can always fine-tune θ to find a prime p2 without the *previous* value going out of the range [p1, p1+1). Tiny changes to θ only affect primes past a particular n, see, so once you've locked onto a prime for one n, you then move to smaller changes to find n+1's prime, and so on. This proves that θ exists; finding θ then means tuning it more and more finely to find the primes.

    • @rosiefay7283
      @rosiefay7283 Před 2 lety +2

      You've nailed it. It's claimed that Mills's constant generates primes. The point is that this claim is bogus. You need to generate some primes in a different way in the process of fine-tuning the constant, and as you correctly say, this is possible.

  • @ppancho188
    @ppancho188 Před 6 lety +67

    We want more videos with James Grime!

  • @David_Last_Name
    @David_Last_Name Před 7 lety +72

    I would love to see a video explaining both how this guy figured this formula out, how he calculated theta, and what the proof is that this will always work. Because this number is AWESOME!

    • @stargazer7644
      @stargazer7644 Před 4 lety +5

      They did that in this video. You start with a prime, and work backwards. They told you that nobody knows the constant, that you have to calculate it from known primes.

    • @hakarraji5723
      @hakarraji5723 Před 4 lety

      @@stargazer7644 yes but how do you know which primes to choose? I think it obvious that the user meant that

    • @stargazer7644
      @stargazer7644 Před 4 lety +1

      @@hakarraji5723 You use the ones that appear to fit the progression. You have to calculate the primes using other methods, as mentioned in the video. I suspect how to figure out the original formula would be apparent from an explanation of the proof. There's a deeper level here than just plugging exponents into a constant.

    • @hakarraji5723
      @hakarraji5723 Před 4 lety +1

      @@stargazer7644 i think there is a misunderstanding:) You cant just calculate the number without knowing the primes and you cant just know the primes without knowing the number. So the user wanted to know where it all began. either there is another way to calculate those primes or another way to calcucate the number.

    • @topilinkala1594
      @topilinkala1594 Před 2 lety +4

      @@hakarraji5723 Start with an approximation. Calculate the power and if it's not a prime adjust the number until it is the nearest prime. Rinse & repeat. The amount the exponent increases guarantees that the fidly bits you add & adjust in the end won't affect the smaller exponents. If you listen James carefully from the start he implies that there are more such numbers than just the Mill's constant. Probably is. You can try to find the k that guarantees that k^(4^n) gives you primes with integers 1 to infinity.

  • @modestorosado1338
    @modestorosado1338 Před 4 lety +4

    You gotta love James' mischievous grin. It's a shame he rarely features in Numberphile's videos nowadays. By the way, I'm not saying the rest of the people making the videos are boring or don't bring interesting content to the channel, but James has this unique way of explaining things, that drives your interest even if you're not into math that much.

  • @mcmuffincakes
    @mcmuffincakes Před 11 lety +4

    I love how excited he gets when Brady says "That number's awesome!"
    His face at 3:19 is priceless

  • @ZebraF4CE
    @ZebraF4CE Před 8 lety +109

    3:18

  • @marasmusine
    @marasmusine Před 5 lety +3

    I love the way James says "we don't know" in these videos.

  • @muhammadmoazzam4817
    @muhammadmoazzam4817 Před 8 lety +10

    can we just appreciate how beautiful this equation looks

  • @QuasarRiceMints
    @QuasarRiceMints Před 10 lety +4

    "Dear Excellent Translator,
    Your translation in Portuguese (Portugal) (Português (Portugal)) for the video "Awesome Prime Number Constant - Numberphile" has been approved!
    It should appear on CZcams very soon at: *[this video]*
    Thank you very much for your support!"
    :D *.* ♥

  • @Luffy_wastaken
    @Luffy_wastaken Před 2 lety +2

    3:15 James was expecting some serious conclusion but became overjoyed with Brady's comment haha

  • @cyndie26
    @cyndie26 Před 9 lety +56

    0:31
    I've also seen "math.floor".

  • @Quasar2456
    @Quasar2456 Před 11 lety +5

    6:04 turn on the captions
    "it's related to crimes"
    lol

  • @3dward67
    @3dward67 Před 11 lety +2

    I love James' enthusiasm towards Mathematics, he makes these videos addictive.

  • @jandor6595
    @jandor6595 Před rokem +2

    *Any math problem:* *exists
    *Riemann Hypothesis, pi or e randomly appearing from nowhere:* bonjour

  • @Martmists
    @Martmists Před 9 lety +4

    From wikipedia:
    "Currently, the largest known Mills prime (under the Riemann hypothesis) is (((((((((2^3+3)^3+30)^3+6)^3+80)^3+12)^3+450)^3+894)^3+3636)^3+70756)^3+97220,
    which is 20,562 digits long."

    • @coopergates9680
      @coopergates9680 Před 9 lety

      +Mart Mists That's what I was wondering, if you could cube one Mills prime and add something to get the next, but those differences seem pretty random.

    • @Martmists
      @Martmists Před 9 lety

      you mean like cubing the same number over and over again until it is a palindrome? might make a script on that :) sounds like a new type of numbers is coming... gates's numbers :P

    • @coopergates9680
      @coopergates9680 Před 9 lety

      +Mart Mists 11^3 = 1331 is already a palindrome, my point was that you already wrote the derivation of a Mills prime and showed that you have to add a bit to the cube each time and the amount you have to add isn't too predictable. Never mind palindromes anyway, write 'em in another base and they aren't.
      What are the differences between the cube of one Mills prime and the next, from what you wrote?
      3, 30, 6, 80, 12, 450, 894, 3636, 70756, 97220, .....
      894 is a multiple of the prime 149 and 97220 is a multiple of the prime 4861. Mills's constant sounds like a transcendental irrational number.

    • @coopergates9680
      @coopergates9680 Před 9 lety

      +Mart Mists It sounds like such a constant does exist for k^(2^n).

  • @evanfortunato2382
    @evanfortunato2382 Před 5 lety +3

    I was gonna ask if Ø was transcendental, but we don't even know if it's irrational. Guess I gotta start working up a proof

  • @MichaelFrancisRay
    @MichaelFrancisRay Před 11 lety

    Thanks for the vid Brady. Great job. Im always happy and greatful for my weekly dose of numberphile. What's more is that its a viddy with dr James Grime, arguably the most genuine quirky and interesting person on the channel.

  • @BeckGregorFL
    @BeckGregorFL Před 11 lety

    I've always been interested in maths. But since I watch Numberphile, especially the videos with James Grime, I absolutely love maths. He has so much passion! You can really feel the awesomeness of numbers in his voice. Keep on the great work!

  • @bplabs
    @bplabs Před 11 lety +5

    Dear Dr. Grime:
    I remember hearing, back when I was in high school, of some sort of prize (à la the x-prize) for the first and/or best formula for finding primes; do you know anything about this?
    Your friend and fan,
    Brad

  • @alial3802
    @alial3802 Před 6 lety +4

    One day i will find a general formula to predict all primes.

  • @S4MJ4M
    @S4MJ4M Před 11 lety +1

    The last sequence of videos on prime numbers are simply fantastic, I always kind of assumed that prime numbers are random and unpredictable in distribution. Keep up the great work Brady!

  • @alaapsarkar
    @alaapsarkar Před 7 lety

    thanks, your channel has created such a big interest about numbers in me!

  • @NeosimianSapiens
    @NeosimianSapiens Před 11 lety +5

    5:47 "I'm not so impressed by it" ... this was my gut reaction the moment I saw him put the dots at the end of the constant. I became even less impressed as I saw that it produced far fewer primes than it had digits.
    Still, it was fun to watch this video.

  • @jchenergy
    @jchenergy Před 10 lety +4

    Well, I think that your Theta actually is not a constant. It is a number that is being constructed according to the quantities of primes that you want to represent by the algorithm. As n increases, more decimal you need to include in theta, and that additional decimals should be such that they have not effect on the previuos calculation (and rounding) for n-1. The construction of theta is a simple mechanic, only a bit boring.
    Conclusion:Theta in your algorithm is not a constant, in the sense thar are e, pi , 2 , i or others.

    • @StevenR0se
      @StevenR0se Před 9 lety +3

      No, but, there's been proven to be such a constant. As in, the theorem goes, 'there exists some constant theta such that floor(theta^(3^n)) is prime. And that's been proven. The value of that constant is unimportant for theoretical purposes.

    • @jamma246
      @jamma246 Před 9 lety +3

      Your comment is about as useful as saying that irrationals don't exist because you can't write them down. In other words, your comment is ridiculous.

    • @zackyezek3760
      @zackyezek3760 Před 6 lety +1

      Actually, e is such an algorithmic constant too! "e" is constructed by defining an infinite power series whose derivatives are itself, I.e. an invariant under the differential operator. Since differentiation amounts to the limit of a computation- the delta of f(x) divided by the delta in x- it is effectively defined by an algorithm. You compute e and pi both to arbitrary accuracy by truncating some infinite sum or product to a finite # of terms,
      This constant is far less useful or widely known because it offers no new insight or data into the primes- it skips most of them and provides no new primality test. It would be interesting to see if a lot of results like the paper defining this constant still held up if the Riemann Hypothesis was falsified. I guess it would depend on whether the disproof was merely an explicit counter example or if there was more of a theorem behind it.

  • @felixkakashi1449
    @felixkakashi1449 Před 11 lety

    Really enjoying this channel, thanks for your work. Also, I love the Foundation series. I was not introduced to it till later in life, but once I read it I was hooked. Good to see you promoting Asimov's work. :)

  • @essboarder23
    @essboarder23 Před 11 lety +1

    Gosh this is really awesome. Amazing how people can come up with this stuff

  • @DestinyQx
    @DestinyQx Před 10 lety +35

    if there are an infinite number of primes.. then theta must be irrational.. otherwise.. if theta were rational.. then theta would terminate eventually.. not allowing you to generate further primes as guaranteed by the proof that Mill's formula works for n ≥ 1

    • @lythd
      @lythd Před 5 lety

      No. 3.3333 never terminates but is rational. Although it is probably irrational you can't prove it without knowing it's formula.

    • @nosuchthing8
      @nosuchthing8 Před 5 lety

      So it would seem

  • @ham8utube
    @ham8utube Před 9 lety +5

    It is really interesting but for n=4, the value 252100887 is divisible by 3. It might be because Theta is irrational and it needs its precise value to the hundreds of its digits to be raised to 3^n and then the floor function applied, for the resultant number to be prime.

    • @Scy
      @Scy Před 9 lety +2

      Actually it's 3 8's at the end. He only wrote 2...
      2 521 008 887

    • @randomasdf97
      @randomasdf97 Před 9 lety

      They wrote in the upper right corner in very small letters that it's actually 2 521 008 887. I didn't notice those letters at first.
      I believe they should make the text slightly bigger to avoid downvotes.

  • @terranceparsons5185
    @terranceparsons5185 Před 11 měsíci +1

    James! Always my favorite Numberphile guy

  • @scottdebrestian9875
    @scottdebrestian9875 Před 3 lety +1

    Reading the closed captions: "Riemann's hypothesis is a very important hypothesis in mathematics that hasn't been proven yet, that is related to crimes and how they are distributed."
    Wow, the Riemann hypothesis really does appear in all sorts of apparently unrelated phenomena, doesn't it?

  • @WilliametcCook
    @WilliametcCook Před 7 lety +59

    How exactly would you prove that this works?

    • @diegosanchez894
      @diegosanchez894 Před 7 lety +3

      William1234567890123 Cook there are many ways to test for primes.

    • @ostheer
      @ostheer Před 6 lety +31

      But testing the formula's output doesn't prove that it holds in general

    • @Jim-cr9ut
      @Jim-cr9ut Před 6 lety +6

      Cheeki Breeki Nice profile pic

    • @karapuzo1
      @karapuzo1 Před 6 lety +5

      The way I see it the primes are encoded in the digits of theta. Think about, you calculate additional digits of theta using primes you found from another source and fitting the additional digits of theta in such a way as to produce these primes. If your process of calculating the additional digits is rigorous that is the proof that it will always produce primes. It's a circular argument and not really impressive. I have a constant alpha which constitutes a picture of infinitely many cats, you just find a picture of a cat and encode it as additional digits of alpha, there you got a constant with infinitely many pictures of cats.

    • @laxrulz7
      @laxrulz7 Před 6 lety

      I wonder why this wouldn't be true for all integers (not just 3) then.

  • @leexyz6398
    @leexyz6398 Před 8 lety +5

    I guess this implies there are infinitely many primes, since n has no upper bound.

    • @tidorith
      @tidorith Před 8 lety +11

      It's very easy to prove there are infinitely many primes. Imagine there were a finite number of primes. If there were, you could multiply them all together and add one to get a new number that is greater than all primes. If a number is greater than all primes, it can't be a prime number itself. But the new number would not be divisible by any prime, so it must *be* a prime number. Because we've reached a contradiction, we know our original assumption (finite primes) is false. And so there are infinitely many primes.

    • @ryanofarrell186
      @ryanofarrell186 Před 7 lety +1

      Another proof (using the zeta function) is this:
      Zeta(1) is the harmonic series, which diverges to infinity.
      However, zeta values greater than or equal to 1 can be written as a product of primes.
      The only way to multiply finite numbers to get infinity is to multiply numbers.
      Therefore, there are an infinite number of primes.

    • @torresfan1143
      @torresfan1143 Před 7 lety

      interesting work

    • @nikoyochum6974
      @nikoyochum6974 Před 7 lety +1

      having infinitely many primes is one of the most basic proofs in number theory

    • @Tiqerboy
      @Tiqerboy Před 6 lety

      Actually that new number could be composed of primes that weren't on the list used to generate it. Either way, it results in other primes that weren't on your finite list, and therefore the number of primes must go on forever.
      I consider it an 'inefficient' proof because the number of primes it generates is actually very small compared to the actual number of primes out there. For example 2*3*5*7 + 1 = 211. The proof generated just one extra prime on the number line to 211 yet we know there are a lot more than that. So even these 'proof generating primes' is a small subset to the total number of primes out there, it's still an infinite list.

  • @scarletice
    @scarletice Před 11 lety

    agreed, I just love how excited he gets. you can really tell how much he loves this stuff.

  • @namantenguriya
    @namantenguriya Před 3 lety

    Thanks NUMBERPHILE for these interesting videos.
    Knowledgeable video by James as always he did.

  • @abcdefzhij
    @abcdefzhij Před 7 lety +4

    So we know that there are other numbers with this same property. My question is, are there other numbers that always give primes for (theta^(x^n)) for all n, where x isn't 3?

    • @remuladgryta
      @remuladgryta Před 7 lety +1

      I was wondering this too! The proof is fairly short (linked in the description, only one page) and seems reasonably straightforward to understand even without deep knowledge of mathematics if you give it enough time, though I'll admit I still don't get it after reading it over a few times. I can't see a step where x=3 is required, but since the paper doesn't claim the general case, I'm guessing there's a reason I'm not seeing.

    • @Jimpozcan
      @Jimpozcan Před 7 lety +4

      If it's true for the case where _x_ is 3, it clearly must be true for the case where _x_ is any positive integer power of 3.

    • @abcdefzhij
      @abcdefzhij Před 7 lety

      jimpozcaner True.

    • @eragontherider123
      @eragontherider123 Před 5 lety +1

      remuladgryta well, it seems that they calculate it by taking the inverse function and seeing if it matches up. So if you wanted to, you could program/excel a spreadsheet where you take a list of primes and apply that function to many constant values and see if any strings start showing up.

  • @KasabianFan44
    @KasabianFan44 Před 9 lety +8

    I think it's non-transcendental but irrational.

    • @prae197
      @prae197 Před 9 lety +8

      Well, statistically speaking, it's probably transcendental, as are most real numbers.

    • @coopergates9680
      @coopergates9680 Před 9 lety +4

      +KasabianFan44 Using a huge Mills prime to approximate theta is (massive prime) ^ (super tiny power). These approximations are algebraic irrationals, but the limit should be transcendental.

  • @BillAngelos
    @BillAngelos Před 11 lety

    Another great video. I love this channel and computerphile.

  • @offchan
    @offchan Před 11 lety

    I like this channel because it has English subtitles for those who aren't English native speaker like me! So I can understand them more easily.

  • @danobot12
    @danobot12 Před 9 lety +11

    Hi, Im looking for a beautiful mathematical proof or conjecture or solution to a problem that would fit on an A3 piece of paper. I'm renovating my room, love maths and I want to frame the proof. Any suggestions for a proof that looks beautiful, is super elegant and links seemingly unrelated areas of mathematics? (last one is that surprise factor some proofs have.)

    •  Před 9 lety +2

      Pretty cool idea :)

    • @danobot12
      @danobot12 Před 9 lety +2

      Moisés Prado Yeah, i wanna have something with Integrals. Its so annoying I've seen lots of great proofs but I cant remember what they're called or how they go.

    • @pivotman64
      @pivotman64 Před 9 lety +3

      danobot Perhaps use a proof of Euler's identity. If you must have integrals, you could use the comparison of Gabriel's horn's surface area to its volume. My personal favorite "math thing" is the derivation of the quadratic formula from standard form.

    • @KryalSDA
      @KryalSDA Před 9 lety

      this seems provable easily enough by induction? i'm too lazy to do it though

    • @monk_marius4338
      @monk_marius4338 Před 9 lety

      Proof of infinitude of primes:
      Let N be composite. Then N(N+1) has more prime factors. Q.E.D
      This is probably the best proof I've ever seen.

  • @MrGammaGoblin
    @MrGammaGoblin Před 9 lety +3

    I wish you would cover where did that Theta constant come from in first place.

    • @nikoyochum6974
      @nikoyochum6974 Před 7 lety

      by using different values of n and finding primes close there and retroactively fitting a curve

    • @angelmendez-rivera351
      @angelmendez-rivera351 Před 5 lety

      That is not something you can discuss in a video. These proofs are very complicated.

  • @luetkemd
    @luetkemd Před 11 lety

    I"ve loved the last two prime number videos on finding their locations.. very interesting.

  • @abrasivepaste
    @abrasivepaste Před 11 lety

    please do more videos. They're just so interesting and I cannot get enough.

  • @genius11433
    @genius11433 Před 8 lety +3

    Question: If we are only now coming up with a way to calculate Theta, then how did MIlls originally come up with this number? Did he get some kind of revelation from heaven or something?

    • @OnamKingtheKing
      @OnamKingtheKing Před 8 lety +1

      Mills only proved that there exist such a number, he did not calculate it

    • @stargazer7644
      @stargazer7644 Před 4 lety +1

      They showed you in the video how he came up with as much of it as he came up with. He started with known primes.

  • @heloswelo6309
    @heloswelo6309 Před 6 lety +6

    What if n=0?

    • @luciuscaeciliuslucundus3647
      @luciuscaeciliuslucundus3647 Před 5 lety +4

      If n=0, then the mill's prime would be theta (mill's constant) ^3^0. Anything to the power of zero is one because anything divided by itself is one. Therefore, the mill's prime would be 1.306...^1 which equals 1.306... . If you round this down, as it says to do in this video, you get one and one isn't a prime. Therefore, if n=0, it wouldn't be a mill's prime because it's not a prime.

  • @CTJ2619
    @CTJ2619 Před 8 lety

    Foundation - a great recommendation !!
    You guys rock !!

  • @alfre2ky
    @alfre2ky Před 11 lety +1

    Great video, I enjoyed a lot!

  • @mixcocam
    @mixcocam Před 8 lety +3

    If the Riemann Hypothesis is true and we can calculate huge primes easier than we can now, is this going to affect cryptography? If so, how is it going to affect it?

    • @DaffyDaffyDaffy33322
      @DaffyDaffyDaffy33322 Před 8 lety +1

      +Rodrigo Camacho It probably won't. The mills primes get exponentially spaced out as the numbers involved get bigger. There will only be a handful of mills primes in the 2^2048 range (which is what we're using currently). If mills primes are used in cryptography, and it's easy to calculate them, then someone guessing someone else's key will be pretty easy. Because of this, we're probably just going to stick to the usual methods of calculating large primes.

    • @joshuajurgensmeier4534
      @joshuajurgensmeier4534 Před 8 lety

      +Rodrigo Camacho P vs NP (another millennial problem) on the other hand...

  • @simemetti8733
    @simemetti8733 Před 9 lety +4

    so this prove that there's an infinite amount of prime numbers

    • @ToastyOs
      @ToastyOs Před 9 lety

      Gamer placE yeah true

    • @simemetti8733
      @simemetti8733 Před 9 lety

      cul

    • @panescudumitru
      @panescudumitru Před 9 lety +11

      Gamer placE Except that it was already proven more than 1000 years ago.

    • @diegorojaslaluz962
      @diegorojaslaluz962 Před 9 lety +2

      panescudumitru about 2300 years ago

    • @ykl1277
      @ykl1277 Před 9 lety

      +Diego Rojas La Luz 2300 is still more than 1000. The statement by panescudumitru is not wrong.

  • @nakamakai5553
    @nakamakai5553 Před 2 lety

    Amazed. Every day I think I know "a bit" about maths, Brady comes along with something like this. I don't know the tiniest slice of the whole thing. If we have a field of study that is itself infinite, it its probably mathematics

  • @miiiikku
    @miiiikku Před 11 lety

    Fabulous, good to see all is well and you are up to speed right there.

  • @lolmaker1984
    @lolmaker1984 Před 10 lety +8

    Make a video on the Riemann Hypothesis.

  • @PrivateEyeYiYi
    @PrivateEyeYiYi Před 7 lety +13

    What if n is a fractional value?
    n = 3.4
    n = 5.25
    Could this somehow be a way fill in all the "in between" primes?

    • @hanifhasan9320
      @hanifhasan9320 Před 7 lety

      PrivateEyeYiYi that was what i was thinking

    • @hyperghoul
      @hyperghoul Před 7 lety

      PrivateEyeYiYi it has to be integer

    • @ewiem4351
      @ewiem4351 Před 7 lety

      adi paramartha
      Care to explain why?

    • @hyperghoul
      @hyperghoul Před 7 lety +6

      Its on the paper

    • @amc8038
      @amc8038 Před 7 lety

      Deboogs But that would give you a fractional power.

  • @thegoodplace1234
    @thegoodplace1234 Před 11 lety

    Love the prime number content! And +1 on doing a Riemann Hypothesis video. Heck, do a video for each millennium prize problem!

  • @SamiSioux
    @SamiSioux Před 11 lety

    Starting my day with a dose of James Grime... This day cannot go wrong now :D

  • @branthebrave
    @branthebrave Před 8 lety +5

    Isn't the name of rounding down "floor"ing?

    • @FourTwentyMagic
      @FourTwentyMagic Před 8 lety +2

      +Brandon Boyer yeah, it's called the floor of a number

    • @chrisandtrenton5808
      @chrisandtrenton5808 Před 8 lety +1

      +Brandon Boyer Same thing as a greatest integer function

    • @4snekwolfire813
      @4snekwolfire813 Před 4 lety

      @@chrisandtrenton5808 no, floor is end rounding. greatest unteger is intermediate rounding

  • @unecomedy13
    @unecomedy13 Před 10 lety +3

    I think its irrational.

  • @mixcocam
    @mixcocam Před 8 lety

    Thanks for the book recommendation! Will take a look.

  • @LucieSimoneau
    @LucieSimoneau Před 11 lety

    I love how MrGrime is so enthusiastic and has always been (:

  • @Taqu3
    @Taqu3 Před 8 lety +14

    If theta supposed to give infinity of primes how on earth can it be rational ?

    • @anarcho.pacifist
      @anarcho.pacifist Před 8 lety +3

      +Taqu3 Well, it's not that simple. For example: 1.5^3^n also goes to infinity as n gets larger, but nevertheless, 1.5 is rational.

    • @DaffyDaffyDaffy33322
      @DaffyDaffyDaffy33322 Před 8 lety +17

      +Daniel Șuteu I think the argument is that since primes are distributed more or less randomly, having a constant that generates them all should contain infinite information. A constant that contains infinite information would not only be irrational, but transcendental as well.

    • @massimilianotron7880
      @massimilianotron7880 Před 8 lety +1

      +DaffyDaffyDaffy33322 Well, it doesn't generate them all, just some of them.

    • @ishwar8119
      @ishwar8119 Před 8 lety +2

      Yes but it would give an infinite SUBSET of them

    • @akanegally
      @akanegally Před 8 lety +4

      It will contain infinite information if you ASSUME that primes are distributed randomly.

  • @katzen3314
    @katzen3314 Před 8 lety +19

    How is theta calculated then?

    • @katzen3314
      @katzen3314 Před 8 lety +5

      Commented before I watched the whole video, that seems like the main reason we cant use it to find primes.

    • @johannschiel6734
      @johannschiel6734 Před 8 lety

      Right, but you have to know theta to find these numbers (Pn) effectively... Damn ^^

    • @andrewkepert923
      @andrewkepert923 Před 7 lety

      Recursively - P_{n+1} is always the next prime after P_n^3 and Θ=lim P_n^{3^{-n}}. Something on the density of primes (Bertrand's postulate or something sharper?) is needed to get a handle on the growth of P_n^{3^{-n}} so that the rounding down isn't ruined for earlier values of n. Essentially you need to ensure that the intervals [ P_n^{3^{-n}} , (1+P_n)^{3^{-n}} ] are nested.

    • @andrewkepert923
      @andrewkepert923 Před 7 lety

      Bertrand's postulate doesn't cut it, I don't think. It needs P_n^3 < P_{n+1} < P_n^3 + 3P_n^2 + 3P_n, so we need a version that says for any x, there is a prime between x^3 and (x+1)^3.
      Very close to Legendre's conjecture! I think it's true, but can't find a quick reference.
      If Legendre's conjecture is true, then there is a number Θ such that ⌊Θ^{2^n}⌋ is always prime.

    • @andrewkepert923
      @andrewkepert923 Před 7 lety

      Ah - the wikipedia page for Mill's Constant has what I just worked out, but the fact that it works for P_1=2 relies on the Riemann hypothesis. So yes, a small result on the density of primes is required.

  • @Neuroprophet
    @Neuroprophet Před 11 lety +1

    damn, i don't know anything about Prime Numbers but Dr. James Grime makes me learn about it further.

  • @NashvilleMonkey1000
    @NashvilleMonkey1000 Před 8 lety

    This is a very interesting case of algorithmic hashing! The amount of information stored in the decimal encoding of the constant itself can completely account for the information that each answer contains, because there will be a prime that "lines up" and adjusts the trajectory. If this is true, then there are other constants that can be encoded to represent other types of information, which is effectively hashing.

  • @binky2819
    @binky2819 Před 9 lety +21

    If we don't know how to get to this constant, how did we even figure it out in the first place?

    • @SayNOtoGreens
      @SayNOtoGreens Před 9 lety +10

      It helps if you watch the video to the end, you know. He named TWO different ways there...

    • @thisisrtsthree9992
      @thisisrtsthree9992 Před 8 lety +1

      +SayNOtoGreens gg

    • @robin-vt1qj
      @robin-vt1qj Před 8 lety

      just test it

    • @snbeast9545
      @snbeast9545 Před 6 lety +1

      Experimentation in boredom.

    • @RKBock
      @RKBock Před 6 lety +1

      rather simple: many mathematical proofs, most actually, don't use numbers directly. this one was probably shown by showing that there are constants that have that property. finding such a number can then be done numerically. for example starting with cube root(2), and then adjusting it numerically, by iteration using higher prime numbers.

  • @magnus264
    @magnus264 Před 9 lety +7

    How Mill found this number?

    • @robin-vt1qj
      @robin-vt1qj Před 8 lety +2

      test

    • @Ocklepod
      @Ocklepod Před 8 lety +14

      Mill: "Which number is awesome..?"
      .
      .
      .
      "Let's take 1.306...!!!!"

    • @ophello
      @ophello Před 7 lety

      For fun. He basically realized that since the value grows so rapidly, he only has to make sure it passes through a few known primes in the beginning, then tweak the value to guarantee that it passes through other primes as n goes up. It's not really that impressive of a feat because it's just basically creating a number that satisfies your arbitrary rule.

  • @Cuix
    @Cuix Před 11 lety

    Him getting all excited over a cool number completely made my night.

  • @alexandterfst6532
    @alexandterfst6532 Před 6 lety

    Excellent video

  • @prathameshsawant5574
    @prathameshsawant5574 Před 8 lety +68

    thetha=1.3...
    put n=0
    you get thetha which 1.3.., round it you get 1. that proves 1 is prime.

    • @FrostMonolith
      @FrostMonolith Před 7 lety +38

      n is a natural number.

    • @MadocComadrin
      @MadocComadrin Před 7 lety +3

      If one was considered prime, then we could allow n=0. n > 0 is explicit stated to not generate 1.

    • @MikeJones-ue7ux
      @MikeJones-ue7ux Před 7 lety

      prathamesh sawant XD what a beautiful and flawless piece if logic

    • @megatrix500
      @megatrix500 Před 7 lety +1

      Y U tryin 2 break math?

    • @CaseyShontz
      @CaseyShontz Před 6 lety +1

      prathamesh sawant 1 is prime but it doesn’t behave like other primes so people leave it off the list now because they don’t want to have to keep saying “primes except 1”

  • @ElectronSpark
    @ElectronSpark Před 11 lety

    Truly fascinating video.

  • @telesniper2
    @telesniper2 Před 6 měsíci

    Simon Plouffe has a new (well, 2022) paper out revisiting Mills and Wright. He produces some new formulae, and discusses the order of growth of the Mills constant functions, and creates some new constants and prime generating functions with slower growth rates. You should really check it out! I believe he set some records for the longest prime generating polynomial in the paper. The paper is titled "A set of Formula for Primes" and is on the Arxiv. By the way, if you aren't familiar with Simon Plouffe, he's one of the co creators of the Bailey-Borwein-Plouffe formula (BBP formula) , which is is an explicit formula for the digits of Pi.

  • @yasiru89
    @yasiru89 Před 11 lety +1

    @numberphile Great video. Thanks for linking the proof also.
    If you liked Foundation (one of my favourite books), try The Last and First Men by Olaf Stapledon.

  • @adrianvandervaart9891
    @adrianvandervaart9891 Před 11 lety

    Foundation! So good. Love it.

  • @blahasuk7398
    @blahasuk7398 Před 7 lety

    A fun side note is that this is fundamental to most computer algorithms. We force data into data-structures, that allows for accessing, deletion and insertion in a logarithmic bound. So what would have taken ages to search for linearly, is now lightning fast. Instead of doing a million computations, you do ~19.

  • @scoldingMime
    @scoldingMime Před 11 lety

    Great video! Please explain the Riemann Hypothesis, and perhaps the generality of the Millenium Prize Problems.

  • @gricka31
    @gricka31 Před 11 lety

    Dr Grime's face when Brady said the constant was awesome.
    Inspired.

  • @Parthematics
    @Parthematics Před 11 lety

    Hey, I think Mr. Grime misspoke the 4th Mills Prime. If I'm not mistaken, I believe the correct value is 2521008887.
    Really enjoy these videos, Brady! Keep it up!

  • @johnnybikesalot
    @johnnybikesalot Před 5 lety +1

    FUN FACT: 252,100,887 is NOT in fact a prime. 3 * 84,033,629 = 252,100,887. But Mills Constant still works, he just forgot an 8.
    (Mills Constant)^81 = 2,521,008,887 (which is prime)

  • @ismailchekassim3876
    @ismailchekassim3876 Před 8 lety

    Awesome, keep it up.

  • @skit555
    @skit555 Před 11 lety

    I'm a big fan of numberphile for a year now and I was making a tutorial about youtube's channels. When I checked the credits, I noticed you had fb, twitter and the channel's website URL in the credits but... I never noticed it before.
    I'm just giving you an advice: maybe you should try to make them more "visuals". I'm not sure but I think most of us are juste seeing "Numberphile".
    BTW great job, I'm looking for the next episode ;)

  • @cooperstimson
    @cooperstimson Před 11 lety

    Mill's constant and Foundation in one video? I'm sold.

  • @iluvenisp
    @iluvenisp Před 11 lety

    Thank you! I've already seen it, but after watching this vid I understood it a little better. Thanks for the recommendation :)

  • @PinkChucky15
    @PinkChucky15 Před 11 lety

    This is pretty cool, I can't believe I had never heard about the Mills' Constant before.

  • @anticorncob6
    @anticorncob6 Před 11 lety

    If you question everything you won't get anywhere. I questioned the fact that if two parallel lines are cut by a transversal, the corresponding angles are congruent. "What if they're just super close?", I asked myself. I developed a formal logical system with a set of sixteen axioms (axioms like "If P is true and Q is true, then the conditional statement P -> Q is locally true) and turned two column proofs into three column proofs and didn't allow myself to do so much.

  • @meretruant
    @meretruant Před 6 lety +1

    CORRECTION: 252100887 is not prime. 2521008887 however, is. (sorry for the pedantry but I just wrote a program to check for primes and couldn't help but run 252100887 through it)

  • @mookiewana
    @mookiewana Před 11 lety

    Okay, after a bit more research and help from a friend, my original query has been addressed. RH is not assumed to prove the existence of Mills' Constant. It's assumed in order to compute Mills' Constant to greater precision. Mills uses a result which states that there's always a prime number between N^3 and (N+1)^3. Basically, the fact that Mills' Constant has to exist comes from that result.

  • @caiheang
    @caiheang Před 5 lety +1

    03:18 - 03:20 my response when someone voiced an unpopular opinion that I never dare say myself

  • @ImrazorZodd
    @ImrazorZodd Před 11 lety

    oh what wonderful enthusiasm!
    also i totally agree on foundation being a must read. i finished the first trilogy some time ago and just got the last two books. such a mathematical book :)

  • @tabamal
    @tabamal Před 11 lety

    Thanks..
    Yes, if we accept the Legendre's Conjecture, then there is always at least one prime number between two consecutive square integers..
    Then the formula:
    P_n = theta^(2^n)
    would yield a unique theta.
    The associated algorithm is then: P_(n+1)= smallest prime larger than (P_n)^2.
    These P_n will grow less rapidly than Mills' primes: a lower bound is given by:
    P_n > 2^(2^(n-1))
    A lower bound on the Mills' primes is: P_n > 2^(3^(n-1)). Giving:
    P_20 > 10^(349,875,564)

  • @bowlchamps37
    @bowlchamps37 Před 5 lety

    You should make updates whenever sth new is coming up. 5 years have passed and new observations about the mills constant have been made.

  • @Yuuray
    @Yuuray Před 11 lety

    More prime number stuff please!

  • @allanvidebk3983
    @allanvidebk3983 Před 11 lety

    I would love to see something about Aleph numbers and stuff up that alley. I don't know whether or not there is much more to it that what you have already mentioned in one of the previous infinity videos.