Print FASTER: Tuned Profiles or Drilled Nozzles?
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 15. 06. 2024
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Drilling out nozzles seems to be all the rage today - but does that actually get your prints done faster or are you better off cranking up speeds and accelerations in the slicer?
"Foxy" model by Loubie3D www.prusaprinters.org/de/prin...
Succulent planter by Jmakes3D www.prusaprinters.org/de/prin...
Printed on the Original Prusa i3 MK3 go.toms3d.org/prusa/
Good nozzles go.toms3d.org/GenuineE3Dnoz
Cheap nozzles go.toms3d.org/CheapNoz
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That LTT water bottle joke, man yoi got me
Glad I wasnât the only one who caught that đ
Someone bought the domain and redirected it to an amazon search for honeybush tea, but with Tom's affiliate link. I love it!
same here man XD that was great.
too awesome xD
that LT Tea joke caught me off guard! got a genuine belly laugh!
Same here! Ha! đ đ
That LTT reference is legendary ! :D
Also I think it would have been interesting to talk more about E3D V6 flow limitations. With my usual settings for a 0.6mm nozzle, 210°C, 0.3mm layer height and 0.7mm line width, you are limited to around 60-70mm/s. From my experience that's the sweet spot for a "fast but reasonnable" profile.
With a Volcano hotend, you sould be able to easily double that speed but you may be limited by other factors then, mainly cooling as shown in the video but also motion system for cheaper cartesian-prusa style printers, or even extruder if not dual-drive.
If you calculate your flowrate it comes out to something like 12mm3/s, which is about what the regular V6 can handle. E3D doesn't recommend you go over 25mm3/s on a V6 Volcano, but I've taken one to 40. Don't do that.
To avoid the cooling issues you can use PETG instead of PLA.
Nice tea store you have going on there Tom, hehe
Was this just a pun for Linus Tech Tips store??
@@stephenr7424 Yep!
lol the link brought me to an amazon page with that tea some how. xD
@@stephenr7424 yes, and he even set up the domain, pointing to the tea...
@@henninghoefer this definitely show the effort that goes into all of his channel.
I love how were moving backwards to early printing nozzles. Drilling out the nozzle from an acorn cap nut was the only way to get one back in the day
you must be kidding me. you bought a domain and redirected it to amazon "tea" search with your affiliate. LOL, your a legend :D
i could complain you didnt mark it as a affiliate link, but never mind xD
I actually laughed out loud over this one :D
Best Linus Tech Tips reference
I thought that was a real business aimed at selling tea to tech bros!
Yeah, that was brilliant! I erupted quite loudly after I went to that link, very nice! I think I'm gonna drop this in Linus' next video.
IM DYING
As a designer, I must say I am blown away by how the design of your shirt is reflecting the color scheme of your studio setup. Awesome!
Ltteastore :DD
First!
Also, here's a rough summary of my "03c" compromise profile for my MK3:
SPEEDS
Infill 250 mm/s
Perimeters 150 mm/s
External perimeters, small perimeters, top solid infill 80 mm/s
ACCELERATIONS
Infill, perimeters 4000 mm/sÂČ (could probably still go higher)
External perimeters 1200 mm/sÂČ
Z-hop reduced to 0.3 mm
Travel speed at 250 mm/s
Minimum layer time 10 s
Extrusion temperature 220° C
Use at your own risk đ
Second?
Thanks for this. 99% of my prints are just quick functional things (small boxes etc). I'll give the above a try just to see how much impact it has considering there is no infill.
Hi Thomas. I've seen a bunch of your videos. Probably most of them by now. However I have a question that's nagging me: what's the fastest you have ever printed with GOOD results? On any stock printer out of all you have tested.
And the same question, but for stock printers.
I know some people get insane speeds with heavily modded or pro printers, or with "acceptable quality". But I was really curious as to good quality results.
Nice I was just about to ask for the settings đ
Look at the speed view in your Slicer, 150mm/s without a Volcano is not possible, because the volumetric flow rate limits the maximum print speed.
I completely lost the thread on all the variations you tried without some sort of summary or graphic. Gotta see the data to make sense of it.....
This is a low quality video, clearly. All about reminding you to use larger nozzles on big parts with no fine details if you want to save lots of time.
I am so glad you came back to do proper technical videos that are correct and true to their nature, very good level . love it
Great video Tom, I love these experiment videos and how well you explain them all!
I haven't used prusa slicer before but I do love that cura/creality slicer let you set the rates of inner and outer perimeters individually, so I have my external surface go half as fast as the internal walls and infill for example. Prints absolutely FLY and then when it hits that outer layer it slows down and really brings out the finer detail.
I love the gradient background light. Looks great on camera.
Great video. Seeing those speeds makes me even more happy with my railcore. I built it with a volcano, and use a 1.2mm nozzle. I print at 150mm/s and 9000mm/sÂČ acceleration. I printed a bathroom trash can in less than 5 hours!
That sounds amazing. On a V6, I wouldn't go faster than 16mm/s (floor(15/1.2*1.25*0.6)).
I have no doubt in my mind that someone at LTT watches your videos, probably Anthony or Alex. Bracing for a shoutout.
Thanks Tom for the video. Very very interesting results.
I NEVER printed a benche!
Same.
Me either, after 2 years and 4 printers
Benchie
Benchy? Benche def looks weird
Been 3d printing 2yrs and no benchy
Kind of surprised you didn't try a commercial large diameter nozzle, especially with the runout your drill bit had đ±
Thanks for the vid!
The run out on that drill made me clench my cheeks
But it makes no real difference, wherever the centre ends up, will be the centre.
@@thomashenderson3901 the runout doesn't only change the center of the hole, but it wiggles the drill bit while drilling. Thus, you get an uneven diameter and typically a partially much larger and very inconsistent diameter. Considering the flow and uneven pressure etc this is quite an inconvenience for a nozzle bore^^.
Thomas Henderson off center oversized hole could break out and have an uneven edge on the nozzle cone.
@genioee Yeah, I get it. I've been drilling holes for 30years in every conceivable material, bent drills can still make round holes!
The fact he broke out into the conical section is the far greater issue.
i'm personally a fan of the 0,8 mm nozzle. clean 1mm walls, which is easy to consider when designing models
Iâve been using .8mm as well
can you share your profile of 0.8 nozzle
4:56 That cracked me up đ€Ł
I laughed so hard at the slap to LTT at 5:00
Awesome !
i thought the "foxy" was your nozzle blob model
I use a 0.8 nozzle with a .4 layer at ~30mm/s when I have large, simple parts. Like, 200 to 500 g parts. I've gotten some beautiful results. Depending on the part, sometimes I reduce the layer height to .2. I use a modified Ender 3 with a Trianglelabs E3DV6 with a dual petsfang duct, so quite a lot of cooling potential. Also, I typically use exclusively PETG which has a significantly lower thermal mass than PLA.
Actually, I've never printed a benchy. My go to model is an XYZ cube. I know. It isn't very technical, but it does give my a good idea if my problem is a bed temp, nozzle temp, or clogged nozzle issue.
How to print faster in four easy steps:
-Establish the flowrate limit of your nozzle. 8-10mm3/s is a good starting point for a lot of hotends, if your cooling is up to that.
-Establish the print speed your kinematic system is comfortable with. Most systems can print at 45-60 without excessive ghosting.
-Divide flowrate by speed to get the square area your need to print at. In this case, 0.16-0.17 mm2.
-Pick a nozzle size and layer height accordingly, as small as you need to meet this but as large as you dare to lose resolution on the print. In this case, 0.6mm nozzle and 0.3mm layer height makes sense.
You can now print as fast as your printer will allow at the best resolution this point will offer.
What's the calculation done in order to understand step 4? I.e./e.g. how does 0.16 translate to 0.6 and 0.3 height?
@@massacred666 0.6mm*0.3mm is approx. 0.16mmÂČ
@@innnlove nice, thanks buddy
Loved that LTtea... It came out of nowhere. Havent laughted like that in a while. đ
Really nice comparison, however I'm a bit disappointed the test wasn't done with a sanded-down nozzle. I would be so curious to see how a flatter nozzle would increase the quality.
This is a lot of really helpful info! Thanks! :D
Good info in this video. Thank you
Infill multiple layers at a time is a great feature. I generally have it on for 0.15mm detailed prints, but have it disabled for 0.35mm "drafts."
Have you ever tried the pre slices files of Prusa for their face shield? I was shocked how fast they push their settings for that. But with PETG it is easyer to go faster since it does not need as much cooling. I saved their settings to my slicer and use it now for all prototype prints.
Hello. Thanks for your video. One question, did you have any stringing problem when switching to a bigger nozzle?
I am trying with a 0.6mm nozzle, but it generates a lot of stringing, and I cannot solve it.
Thanks.
I know this is a few years old, but im thinking about it a few different ways, a 6mm bolt drilled out to the 1.xmm sizes, the head can be finished to provide a nicer surface. Or an 8mm nozzle can be fabricated with a heatblock to match to get back the strength.
5:51 that one belt idler or gear on printer sure does wiggle on x axis. does that happen at normal speeds?
Interesting video mate, having a delta and a ender 3 I have just been cranking up the speed on the QQSPRO and sanding the end product, sounds like I can just go a 0.8 nozzle on my E3 and double my layer height if just doing a bigger geometric shapes than detailed
Why not drop to a single perimeter w/ a larger nozzle? Much faster than making two trips.
So what are the best options for powerful cooling? I've seen some people with fast printers running compressed air, which is good 'cos gas absorbs heat as it expands (in addition to the air flow cooling) but I'd worry about blowing around delicate parts.
Thanks, very interesting. I use a 0.6 mm nozzle on a MK2.5S with a copper nickel heat block that I have polished dental bits. Titanium break and copper/nickel nozzle. Max flow at 20.5 mm/sec. Very nice finish out of it. Also have found that get better prints out of PETG when staying at 240°C and above and MSR value of 10.5mm/sec.
Again thanks for the video. Hope to see you again some time after this madness is over.
My endgame plan on my custom build for speed and quality is to have 2 nozzles. 0.4 nozzle for outer perimeter, 0.8 nozzle for infill.
For the next video on this, can you strength test those speed profiles?
I freaking died at the lttstore bit. Thank you for the laugh.
This seems like such a fun idea
Watching this video quite a while later, I'm curious how far you can take it with the CHT high-flow nozzles. After all, for bigger prints it seems to be the flow rate that causes the most issues. Cant wait to get my hands on my prusa mini with some CHT nozzles and figure out where i can push it to.
Edit for clarification: I plan on getting a 0.6 mm nozzle, as it should be able to print line widhts of down to 0.48mm comfortably [if not lower] yet still go for a higher layer height [up to 0,4]mm, not to mention a line width of up to 0,8 comfortably, if the flow of the CHT nozzle suffices.
Nope, I am not in this to print detailed intricate models. I want to learn how to 3d Model functional parts, and draft quality is plenty.
You did it, mad man.
Hi, I bought a set of nozzles ranging from 0.2 upto 1.0 I have experimented with the 0.8 but I didn't like the layer's, I prefer using 0.4 although the 0.2 had a very nice finish and took longer, some of the things I print need a little more detail so I have to factor in for the extra time.
What I have considered playing with using a bigger nozzle is TPU (for RC tyres or something). Have you ever tried this?
Thomas, did you print the outer layer AFTER internals?
I think that making the outer layer slower that all internals is a pretty good idea! But it should be worth considering to print the outer perimeter first. From my experience - if the slower outer layer printed first - you will not be able to see any difference from the sample printed at the normal (everything slow) settings.
if you use a mini lathe and make sure the nozzle runs true, then drill and plane afterwards you are golden, great video!
Can we have the full settings for the 1mm nozzle please ? (Perimeters speed and Accel, etc..)
Also what cooling (blowers and fan shroud) could be used for volcano + 1mm nozzle (+ mandatory sock) + 40w heater, cause I'm struggling with this (maybe I did not lower temp but should I ?)
I just bought a Prusa i3 mk3s and install a 0.6 nozzle good settings for printing.
I did a part with a volcano hit end with 0.6mm that had the 0.2mm layers. The part was incredibly strong. The part was a tesla valve printed on end. Detail needd more refining but I good not break it by hand. It would be a good comparison for part strength purposes
On the cheap nossle it would be a good to do on older clogged or worn out nossles
I actually print at 1.2mm on a 6mm nozzle quite often and works great.
Great video Tom! Like the old times...
Did you test the option of keeping the 0.4mm nozzle but increasing the layer width? It sure becomes faster.
i agrerwee with this, 1.5x nozzle is pretty spicy,
I want to know, can you insert things into prints while they are printing???
A a magnet or something, for a magnet closing box where you canât see the magnet?
The best ever tea ad! ;)
How accurate are the diameters of the drilled nozzles?
If your drill bit wobbles, or has a tolerance that's slightly off (say 0.98mm or 1.02mm).. I imagine you can compensate for that in horizontal expansion settings... but is it worth it or easier just to buy the bigger nozzles?
FIY, klipper the new 3d printer firmware recently added "resonance compensation" and it's awesome. I cranked up my acceleration/speeds by 3 with mostly no quality loss.
Great video!
When some people try to print really fast, they end up having to deal with severe vibrations.
Regarding excess vibrations when printing at high speeds...
If my 3D printer has any springs in it, I'd probably try to replace them with inerters (aka j-dampers) to minimize vibrations. I'd also probably use tuned mass dampers and anti-vibration materials for the mounts and whatnot.
If you're limited by the power of your hot end, turning the temperature higher won't make any difference, will it? Example: I lived in Wisconsin in a bad apartment. On a cold day, (-20 oF) the furnace couldn't keep up. Roommate turned thermostat to 90 oF, which had no effect. Next day a warm front comes through and we come home from classes to a sauna.
can you put details of the settings changed, especially for the model printed increased speeds for internal printing but keeping reduced speeds for external surfaces?
Many Thanks
wow! I've been out of the loop. Drilling seems.. unnecessary, why not just buy bigger nozzles?! But thanks for exploring this.
I recently gave PrusaSlicer a go on my ender 3 and tuned a profile for a model, the finish was exquisite and has convinced me to make the switch, not I have to get it to run stable on my laptop. Thanks for all the great videos.
Generally you can't buy more than 1mm at least from what I've seen. Just not enough demand.
@@moth.monster ok, that makes more sense.. wow! the spool must just Spin at those sizes
@@ein57ein It sure does at 0.8mm (the largest size I've used).
@@jefbed212 I'm tempted to try .8 I've been running one machine at .6 for a couple of months now.. but only brave enough to do .3 layer heights so far
My Geeetech A10 default hotend for some reason can do pretty fast 0.3mm layer height prints with only 200 °C without skipping, even though it's a short one.
The Fox model on 45% scale is 1 hour 30 min (slicer says 1 hour 20 min) on my default 0.2 mm settings.
Hi I am new to much of this. I am mostly interested in printing prototype and have no problem with the lack of details. I want speed like you had on the one with Drilled nossle. My question, is there a product out there where I get like a modified e3d that is made for bigger nossle and speeds ore do I have to do it by my self ? I mostly want to modify 3d Scans for motorbike and car parts. And print and glue together.
Thank you for interesting and interesting topics
Hello Thanks for sharing good stuff, I wanted to know about variable speed. Mean to say that is possible to give command "User defined speed" Like 1 to 100 slices at 30 MM, Next 200 slices at 40 MM and next 100 slices at 50MM ? I have total 400 slices in a particular print.
Print FASTER: Tuned Profiles or Drilled Nozzles? (On a Prusa with a outdated nozzle and Prusa Slicer).
Putting a 0.8mm on my ancient wooden Ultimaker has been a joy for mechanical parts. It can belt out a strong test piece in 2 hours where my Mk3 would take 8+. Once I retrofit a volcano in there it will be even crazier. Ultimaker is a good candidate for raw speed, being a bowden style machine. The moving parts are light since the extruder stepper is fixed in place. Can crank up the accelerations all the way to 11. Plus, in my experience a bigger nozzle is much less susceptible to jamming, so I can throw all my old sketchy filament at it.
A thought. Step Bore Nozzle. The point that the filament hits would be somewhere @ 0.5mm that would then expand out to 1.5mm or so. That would allow for the back pressuer needed to properly melt the filament and the print / build surface would see a 1.5mm extrusion.
Wenn ich 3 bauteile auf meinem Druckbett drucken möchte und möchte das ein layer aus drei schichten besteht. D.h. 1. Bauteil 3 Schichten dann das 2. 3 Schichten etc. WĂŒrd viel zeit einsparen
Not bad for a bed slinger...
I can't wait to see the CoreXY
Can you share a 0.8 mm noozzle profile for my prusa i3mk2? I cant find the right settings! Thanks
Regarding the smell, I find particularly black pla from das filament is very smelly. I almost felt a bit sick from it when I started using it.
I have been using a CR-10 with a Prusa MK3S Hotend/Extruder and a 0.6mm nozzle combined with a printing profile from CNC Kitchen (taken from this video: "FASTER 3D printing of face shields") to great effect. I find the 0.6mm nozzle makes for a good compromise between quality and flow rate and makes for some really good yet fast prints. It might be worth checking out. Also, if anyone is searching for cheap (ish) but good quality nozzles, I can recommend Trianglelabs on Aliexpress.
PS absolutely glorious reference to LTT
If you are going down to 0.4mm layer height, 0.8mm nozzle would be probably better - you get more evenly heated filament with same layers or you could possibly go for 0.6mm layer height and you would still be extruding slightly less material than on 0.4mm layer height with 1mm nozzle.
Anyway thanks for the test and the lt tea :)
Iâm thinking about updating my mp select mini v2 with an e3d all metal volcano hot end with a 1.2 mm nozzle x. Because Iâm having trouble with filament expanding and sometimes getting a spiral formed in it while in the hot end, what do you think
Tom, you are a genius.
That ltteastore.com is the best easter egg of youtube for sure
It is germany , did you have to move the kitchen with you ?
I wonder what CNC kitchen does with every move.
Print speed isn't a big deal for me but I find 0,6mm nozzles to work great. They give twice the area (flow) of a 0,4mm but are small enough the parts look about the same for anything functional. You can buy those but if you want something special let me know and I can make nozzles and send you some.
Is there a difference between a Drilles nozzle or an nozzle with the diameter of the drill ?
with input shaper i can cut up to 40% of my print time. i went from 2.2k accel at 45mm/s outside perimeters on my printer to 6k accel (only conservatives due the shakig etc) at 150 inner and 90mm/s outer perimeters. it's nut. but these also help ofc. these are my "quality" settings. i get zero ghosting/artifacts. my cooling is also strangely enough. tho i print ABS a lot which doesn't need much cooling
What's a good marker for writing on the bottom of black parts like that? t's time to trade in the sharpie.
I am running into the thermal runaway protection on my MK3S when I print parts with large flat surfaces using a 0,6mm nozzle. Putting down two or three bottom layers for a 10x15cm box tends to trigger thermal runaway on the second or third layer. Even had it trigger at the top layer before when printing a formula style sim racing wheel.
I like larger nozzles for big prints but they come with their own issues. Really sucks when a large print fails after 5 hours where the 0,4mm nozzle could have finished the same job in 8.
Failures always suck,,but we are working to get print times down.....that is the goal
Adding a variable layer height will further add to the faster prints, especially with larger nozzle diameters :)
Do you have the profiles you used available to try out?
nice video! LOVE to see the prusa run fast af
I actually don't like visible layers (unless it's a vase, those look super cool with thick lines on purpose)
I spent a lot of money getting a Nova hotend to push high volumetric flow out of a .5 nozzle at .2 layer heights, it's worth it for me, I prefer needing the printer to run 300mm/s 3k accel print speeds to using thicker layers, compared to a printer running 40mm/s, I get 5x faster print times (although I don't usually go that fast, usually only 150mm/s untill I get the better machine I designed specifically for speed), cooling is definitely the limiting factor most of of the time, that's why I'll be using a 5020 fan instead of the 5015, makes a huge difference
Literally the same thing I had to go through this last week.
Pretty new to 3D printing. How do you develop a tuned profile? I've just played with infill and perimeters and a tiny bit with temperature.
Would love to see a how to.
Briefly explained, you keep changing factors such as speed and as you find issues you adjust other settings to counter it, such as increasing temperature.
I use a 0.8mm nozzle at 0.2mm layers most of the time (I print bigger things, but as long as you don't need too much detail it's good for small pieces too) and getting the flow rate right can take some back and forth with speed and temperature.
Then there's issues with stringing and blobs which comes with higher temperatures and bigger nozzles.
This will sound weird but, I like your glasses. What brand/model are they?
Great video about fixing fdm print speeds. As cute as the fox model is, it's not a great sample print test it's too organic of a shape. A sample print to test capabilities needs to have hard lines of inorganic shapes and organic shapes (something also missing from Benchy).
No link in the desc to the foxy model?
I like the LTT reference. Had to Lough out loud. And now I understand what you meant with your tweet a few days ago.
But all that work just for this joke? I might use it and get some tea so you earn a few cents at least đ
I have a Prusa Mini. I told the slicer to make 0.8mm perimeters with the 0.4mm nozzle. It worked brilliantly, but it made the printer very hungry. So hungry in fact, that it ate up 1kg of filament in a week.
Do you have PowerPoint or something similar to visualize all these numbers?
For bigger printers like CR10 or anything with build plate 300x300 a 0.8mm nozzle or bigger is just a common sense. Otherwise you will wait ages for big prints.
So test is -- lets try to test with a benchy, ohh -- looks bad -- inadequate cooling, lets try a model that doesn't need such cooling...huh? I've been trying to push higher speed and higher extrusion printing speed boundaries for years, and first things to upgrade are -- the hotend with a longer melting zone, and cooling to cool filament faster as you're laying it down. Also -- as other suggested, a basic volcano nozzle pack has 1.0 and 1.2mm nozzles included, so why not just use that? I'm not sure what this test accomplishes. You waste more time drilling out nozzles than just doing this the right way. Use a super volcano to test really higher speed printing...
What if they made a Hot End with a 4 sided thermoelectric cooler? Very hot on the inside & pretty cold on the outside. Then the part cooling fan would be blowing cold air on the part.
4:58 you freaking didnt! i laughed so hard!
LTTeastore.com had me split!!! ahahahahaa
I print industrial parts almost daily with a purchased 1mm nozzle, in PETG. Much better surface finish than you are getting by drilling, due to the flat face on the nozzle. Since print speeds have to be fairly low for PETG, the 1mm nozzle and 0.5mm layer pay off - I can print a benchy in 20 minutes before I run out of hotend capacity. Increasing speeds further results in underextrusion, poor adhesion and uneven parts. Looking at a Volcano or a water-cooled hotend so I can cram even more filament through, even though a 2 hour print for my setup would have been a day with the stock nozzle.