I’m on the coaches side for the first 45 seconds. Give the kid as much encouragement to get back in there but a a certain point. When he’s said call it 5 times. You gotta know that kid doesn’t have it
I think the coach just thought he was pussin out .... his coach would never make him fight if he honestly thought he couldn’t do it ... that’s why he told the reff to call it too when the ref asked , that let him know he was serious
Yeah I thought, give him all the encouragement you can but when the whistle goes and the ref is about to start the round and he is still sitting there saying call it, then you call it man
He knew he could get seriously injured, it’s not that he not prepared it is when you know that you could have CTE and end up like Gerald McClellan who is currently paralyzed and lost 95% of his hearing. He doesn’t want to end up like that. Edit: Joe also mentions Gerald went blind so if you still want to say Max should have continued fighting, go somewhere else and get away from combat sports if you want to see peoples’ lives and careers end with one severe injury.
Brenda? I don't get this debate. The fighter can always tell the ref he's done. If the fighter doesn't trust his gut over his coach, that's on him, not the coach
There is a point where its not "motivating" him anymore. There is a point where he simply doesn't do what the fighter literally asks him.. CALL IT x 7 times.. That ain't motivating that is neglecting your fighter.
McKellen is the guy who don king convinced him to fire Stewart and hire a guy who couldn't speak English for his corner. if I remember right there was something up with the ref as well. Fuck Don king. I can't remember why don king wanted to get rid of Manny tho money, power, or both I think. Can't say it enough fuck don king
I see why his coach was encouraging him. He won the first round imo. However the short notice fight had his cardio not up to par and its ok that he quit. Last thing we need is a death from a cardiac event in the cage. This isnt boxing. People dont need to die while competing
he wasn't going to DIE ffs. he always has the option to tap out or verbally quit. he 100% would have still been in control of his own health. bet he regretted quitting on his stool 5 minutes later.
The kid took the fight 5 day notice for the money. He looked drained and possibly cut too much weight without a proper camp against an experienced pro who was ready and had a full camp. Had nothing left after the second round and felt like dying. Pretty courageous move to go against his coach and take himself out of there bc you can get hurt badly in this sport. He's back now and won his last two fights since then. Good luck to him.
Boxing is different though they literally get knocked out and they let them recover to probably get knocked out again. There's way more brain damage in boxing.
And the gloves allow for more repeated concussive force. It's easier to get caught clean and go out with 4 ounce gloves rather than get your brain rattled for 30 minutes with 8 ounce gloves.
@@danleon3143 yea but how many spinning heel hook knockouts do you really see in mma not very many. Sure a spinning heel hook ko is more devastating but u dont really see almost anyone throw it where as punches every fighter throws them and in boxing thats literally their only form of doing damage. Mma u have more ways to win other than just knocking ur opponent out such as submissions, kicks to the body hell some fights even end in leg kicks. With boxing you're primary target is the head and getting repeated blows there throughout many fights ultimately makes boxing more prone to brain damage than any other combat sport
@@DanielM796 completely agree, I always use the example of a 10 seconds window, if you had 10 seconds to inflict as much damage, you might get 2 maybe 3 spinning kicks, but with boxing, just imagine how many hooks they can land in 10 seconds... a hell of a lot and that damage is compound.
i feel the kid on this one. back when i played highschool football, i tried to get the coach to pull my out because i felt something was wrong. the coach screamed at me and refused. it wasnt fear, but that very next down i went in for a tackle and my leg ended up under the other teams qb completely destroying my knee and keeping me from ever playing another sport again
People should be much more upset at smiths coaches. He took so much more damage, had nearly no path to victory, and only said my teeth are falling out between round 4-5
They were not ALLOWED to stop it. Anthony Smith said that if his corner ever stops one of his fights, they are immediately fired. They made that deal to be in his corner. They have 0 blame.
@@Justice4Skye The corner has the legal responsibility to stop the fight. Smith should have his purse docked and his coaches should be barred from cageside by the commission for a year for agreeing to that.
The one thing I will say is that old-school boxing trainers knew how to end a fight when a fighter wanted to quit without the whole world knowing the fighter quit. I don't blame the trainer for encouraging him, but having an overt quit vs. don't quit argument in plain view isn't really doing your fighter any favors from a PR perspective. There are better ways to handle it.
Here's my useless thought on the situation. The coach spends more time around his fighter more than anyone else. For however many weeks for camp theyre around eachother for what is probably 6hrs a day depending on the schedule. The coaches have a good understanding of what a fighter is capable of and how much he can push him. If the fighter is prone to hitting a mental wall at a certain point in a fight, the coach is there to break it down. Sure, you could argue that once the fighter says hes done, call it done but some fighters need that nudge because they cant muster it up themselves. Personally, I think coaches should Err on the side of caution and just throw in the towel if the fighter requests it because 30 seconds is not enough time judge if the fighter needs motivation or he's seriously hurt and needs serious medical attention. So let the guy live to fighter another day and let him take the L and work on pushing past mental barriers in camp if it turns out that the problem wasnt life or death. Nobody wants these guys to die in the cage/ring so lets keep these people safe or as safe as possible in a sport where theyre kicking and punching each other in the head
It's actually the opposite. Coaches who have been around a fighter forever have an emotional attachment to both the fighter and the fight. They don't see reality the way an outside observer does. Every coach wants to believe in his guy. Every coach wants to be the coach that talked their fighter off a cliff and then had them turn it around. This is an area where boxing kicks MMA's ass, and it's because coaches are chastised for not being an adult when a fight should be stopped.
Everyones should read what the fighter had to say in his interview recently, he said thats what he expects his coach to do and he commended him for it. If a true fighter doesn't want to fight noone can convince him to but himself and he knows this
Unless your head has been beat in and the lights are on but no one is home. Plenty of fighters get knocked down and get back up but arent even there anymore. So many fighters think its second round but the fight is over. They fight multiple rounds without even knowing they did it. A fighter cant protect himself quite often
@@nickniesman7013 I agree with your points of disorientation, not knowing the round all these things are true. As a man, a human, the fact is no on is going to force you into that ring, you decide. Thats a fact unless your referring to situations where they physically force a fighter into a ring.
Every fighter says the same thing.... My corner did exactly what I wanted smh. Encourage yes... ignoring after NINE+ TIMES fighter says call it NO! Too many corners don't put their fighters health & wellness first & it's got to stop!
Ethan Seal Anthony pettis quit against tony Ferg he knew he wasn’t going to win people who don’t train can call fighters quitters but at the day end he saved his self from sever damage that ungrateful fans don’t have to experience.
Agree. If this was a title fight it would be different, particularly if it's later in the fighters career - but the kid is young and took this one on short notice. If he was getting beat up too badly and his brain was in a fog or whatever he's well within his rights to take the L and come back stronger next time
According to an article in The Observer, McClellan participated in dog fighting.[14][15] McClellan's trainer and family admitted that McClellan was involved with fighting pitbulls, and on one occasion had used tape to bind the jaws of a Labrador shut before allowing his pet pitbull "Deuce" to kill it" Fuck that dude
Craig Smart Wow and just like that I’m happy that dudes life got fucked up the way it did. He deserves every ounce of pain he gets and I hope it’s a lot
@@cwbyfan93 thats such an ignorant thing to say. the guy and his whole family will suffer for the rest of their lives due to this. nothing could justify the pain caused, even some mistakes he made in his earlier life.
justCiaranYT I feel bad for his family of course. I can’t imagine. But Mclelland? Nah. That’s some pure evil shit that he did. He might be a nice guy but that evil exists in his heart, his soul, and his very being. And I don’t have sympathy for any individual in any condition who has that sort of evil inside of them
You listen to your fighter. Period. That's terrible corner work. I may have agreed if I'd never seen the Tyson vs Golata fight. Golata looked completely fine even got booed out of the arena when he quit. Turns out the dude was seriously injured. Detached retina fractured jaw and a list of other injuries. But I cant stress how normal he looked. Always listen to the fighter, when hes had enough hes had enough. Golata could have died from the next punch from a normal boxer. He was fighting Tyson.
i believe it was OK for the coach to try and motivate the fighter, but the kid nearly begged to not continue, and that should have made the coach to accept the situation. Regardless how well they know each other etc etc, the trainer cannot 100% understand what his fighter goes through in that specific moment
I just hope that max takes this as a learning opportunity, and doesn’t decide to give up, because even though he gassed out in the first, he showed some true talent. He just needs to be willing to learn from this, Or if he feels like he wasn’t properly prepared for the ufc environment then maybe he should consider switching camps
Max is known to quit on his self. The coach knew Max was like that. He was doing his job as a coach trying to get his fighter back into the fight. Read Max's interview he says the same thing.
@@XxPunxunite It's a valid question "Can no longer win" can mean behind on the scorecard. It could mean they're starting to gas out. It could mean a bunch of things and asking for clarification on a statement isn't looking for an argument.
A new mindset is required...If any fighter ever says I'm finished that's it..Sooner or later if forced to go on someone will die...Then the real shit hits the fan !
That’s too extreme. I think coaches just need to be more sensitive about when a fighters done. Ask more questions. Learn how to figure your fighter out better. Maybe even have a sports psychologist on hand. Improvement can always be made without having to going too far in one direction. Problem with people is that it always has to be one way or the other. It’s like you can’t walk and chew bubblegum at the same time.
Jojoe. Once again, way too extreme. Sure, nothing is perfect. So that means what? Let rapists rape people because nothing is perfect? Let murderers kill because nothing is perfect? How about, we can make things better and let people do what they want at the same time. You know you can do things at the same time right? You want to completely throw out one side of the issue, while at the same time saying nothing is perfect. It’s a contradiction. You’re being a hypocrite, which is what being extreme leads you to.
There’s honestly no controversy in this situation, the coach tried to encourage his fighter for the whole minute, the fighter said no and the fight was called off, that’s the most the coach could do.
Bullshit. The fighter kept saying "call it" and the coach kept not doing it all the way until the bell rang. At that point the coach has to call it. What you wanna force your fighter to fight because the bell rang and you didn't call it despite him telling you to? Absolute shit take. The coach can fuck off.
Remember when Pennington wanted to stop and then got her nose severely fucked up like two seconds later? Dom said it best, the athlete almost never wants to stop. This kid was gonna try and hit a single-leg, and then be helpless for the rest of the round knowing he took the fight on ten days and doesn’t have the gass tank, his corner isn’t gonna throw in the towel and dude he’s fighting isn’t gonna submit him. In boxing the best corners throw in the towel as soon as their fighter is taking unnecessary punishment or can no longer win, otherwise they jeopardize their fighters livelihood and career moving forward. Anthony Smith is still all about his coach, meanwhile I bet you anything he never fights the same again after that Glover fight. A coach’s job isn’t to force a fighter to participate when they feel they can’t, a coaches job is to provide fucking coaching to their fighter. Which sometimes means telling them it’s okay to call a fucking fight before suffering an injury that could result in a lay-off or potentially ruining their athletic career.
Come at it In a way you understand. If you have ever been in an mma ,bjj,wrestling , kickboxing match think of it you go in there win round 1 lose round 2 and his safety was not at risk at all he was not injured just exhausted. I’d no doubt expect my coach to push me no matter what. Max is going to look back and regret this decision becuase in the moment extausted and tired I’ve made that same decision and if it weren’t for my coaches I would have lost all of these fights
Remember that Benn fight like it was yesterday. Benn showed heart like I'd rarely seen before or since in that ring. He was never the same himself after!! Real life Rocky moment!
Saw highlights of the fight, and the outcome was so brutally bleak... Saw Gerald McClellan in an interview taken after 6 years, and his condition was heartbreaking... Saw Nigel Benn vs. Gerald McClellan after 12 years of the incident, and that shit had me in tears...
McClellan fought Julian Jackson before that fight. Jackson was a devastating puncher and hit Gerald with some hard shots. Jackson eventually got TKO'd, but some of his shots could have had a snowball effect on Gerald.
I think they’re both right and it just depends on the situation. At the VERY LEAST, you need 100% transparent communication between coach and fighter. When you’re exhausted you’re not gonna speak eloquently so the coach needs to know the difference between somethings seriously wrong or the fighters just having a hard time with the bright lights cause the words and demeanor can be the same. Whichever the case is, you NEED the communication no matter what.
I punched MYSELF in the jaw as hard as I could as a teenager (to impress a girl that I wasn't even attracted to). I played it off, for the rest of the day at work I felt like I wasn't quite actually in reality. I never did that stunt again. That was over 20 years ago but I still remember the sensation of doing my job (bagging groceries) while feeling like I was just controlling a robot. I did my job well, no one noticed, but I was designated driver for my body that day, I wasn't in my body. I honestly don't know how to describe it. Your body may break down and you may feel bad about it, but at least you can feel bad and remember what it once was or what it could be like. Losing your mind means you aren't you ever again. Living dead. (which is probably the best way to describe how I felt that day)
Joe is spot on! The nigel benn fight is a perfect example of people having their lives destroyed because they're taking far too much punishment and we need to stop fights sooner, I'd rather fights stop to soon than see a guy hurt.
Joe summarized almost what happened to Gerald McClellan.... Almost. What actually happened was Gerald won the belt from Julian "the Hawk" Jackson a couple fights before and to describe the fight as anything less than a war would be an understatement. When you put 2 of the hardest punchers in boxing history against each other in the G Man vs the Hawk, someone is getting KOd violently. Gerald proved to have the better chin. Absorbing powerful punches that have put every other opponent to sleep. Jackson was ultimately KOd in the 5th round and after the fight Gerald during his interview said Julian punches very hard and would need to sleep a few days straight to rid himself of the terrible headache he had after the fight. During a sparring session with fellow Kronk Gym fighter Tarick Salmaci in training afterwards, McClellan was hit with a jab and this caused the session to be terminated. Gerald claimed that he had gotten thumbed in the eye but a little later in the locker room he told Salmaci he was seriously hurt by the jab. Salmaci noted that after he hit Gerald with the jab, McClellan began blinking rapidly just as he did in the fight against Benn and this was a year before the infamous fight with Benn. Once you take this into consideration and go back and watch the fights against Jackson, then rewatch the entire fight in London vs Benn, only then can you really appreciate the warrior the G Man truly was. This is not to take anything away from Nigel Benn because he did afterall get the W, but he had LOTS of help in getting it. Im not trying to make excuses for McClellan losing but if you go back and watch the fight you cant argue with what happened. From the ref constantly impeding Gerald from finishing Benn (who was the hometown hero) to the no test for steroids which Benn admittedly would have failed for if tested for steroids, the list goes on...... Im not directly blaming Jackson either. Im only bringing it to the attention of those who dont know Gerald's history before his fight with Benn. Gerald's granite chin actually worked against him in many ways because he was able to take shots that would knock anyone else out & keep coming forward. Benn was a hell of a hard puncher but he wasnt a Julian Jackson hard puncher. I think it was the 8th round when Benn swung at Gerald and missed causing him to stumble forward and accidently headbutt Gerald in the face. Actually more like the eye area but that was the beginning of the end for the G Man who still fought back valiantly for the next 2 rounds but ultimately he took a knee followed immediately by another knee where he allowed the ref to count him out. Then he walked back to his corner & before they could get the stool under his ass, he slumped in his corner. His trainer squirted water on his head to which he replied "that shit feels like its inside my head" seconds later he was unconscious. He woke up in the ambulance & asked his trainer what the fuck happened, I got knocked out? The doctors had to do emergency surgery to remove a blood clot that would have killed him had it not been removed and he was in a coma for almost 2 weeks. When he woke up he was completely blind and 80% deaf with difficulty comprehending words when spoken to. Its a tragic tale of the brutal reality of boxing and the risks the fighters put themselves at for the fans' entertainment. People like to make it seem as if Benn ran clean over the G Man but thats NOT nearly what happened. Not even close. Had Gerald not had the injury coming into the fight with Benn and was 100% healthy, Nigel Benn would NOT have made it through the 3rd round under any circumstances whatsoever. Few things are impossible but that would have been impossible on every level. No disrespect to Benn but the G Man was just on another level above everyone else. Who else could KO Julian Jackson not once but twice but the G Man himself? Go watch some Julian the Hawk Jackson highlights and some Gerald McClellan highlights. I rest my case
ultimately in this case the fighter knew he was beyond that point where their coach trying to motivate him and giving that extra push to keep going was going to work, 9 out of 10 times it probably refocuses and gets the guy psyched up for that next round. It's a fine line
They ended up stopping the fight. I don't get the controversy. He had a one minute pep talk to see if he would change his mind. When he didn't change his mind they stopped the fight
Unpopular opnion: The corner was trying the best to motivate thier athlete to go into the next round. Although it is very difficult for fighters the corner has to try to keep thier fighter spirts up.
I have to agree with you. If you trust your trainer/cornerman, know hes a pro, and know he has your best interest at heart, than you know hes telling you the truth and what you need to do. Of course thats if you have a good trainer. Most guys, certainly myself want to quit after that first shot to the face. You brain goes “holy smokes, this sucks!” But your coach keeps you in the fight. Its just part of the sport. So many people think they are not capable of so much more than they are, especially in that environment. You need a good coach to keep you in the fight.
If a fighter cant continue it's up to the fighter his coach and even the cage doc can stop the fight for whatever reason seems necessary. Cuts, dehydration, or even damage.
Joe really took the conversation so far away from the point schilling was trying to make about the coach just trying to do his job and the criticism he's gotten for attempting to keep his fighter mentally in the fight
A Fighter makes up their own mind to carry on with the game of Fist'o Cuffs.. ..They can tap out at any time They choose....given that an arm is free to do so.
"McClellan participated in dog fighting. McClellan's trainer and family admitted that McClellan was involved with fighting pitbulls, and on one occasion had used tape to bind the jaws of a Labrador shut before allowing his pet Pitbull "Deuce" to kill it." KARMA
Always so frustrated when people talk about getting more than ten seconds in boxing. It isn’t from the moment they hit the floor it is from the moment the opposing fighter retreats to the corner... smh
There is a difference between wanting to quit from taking damage and wanting to quit coz of fatigue and the coaches can see that and make the correct call. Quitting because you were tired will screw the guy up for life and not just fighting
Is the coach a medical doctor or a psychiatrist? How can he make the correct call? He is basing the whole situation off his first instinct, “the fighter is tired.” Your point is based on meat head mentality and not emotional intelligence
I’m on the coaches side for the first 45 seconds. Give the kid as much encouragement to get back in there but a a certain point. When he’s said call it 5 times. You gotta know that kid doesn’t have it
I think the coach just thought he was pussin out .... his coach would never make him fight if he honestly thought he couldn’t do it ... that’s why he told the reff to call it too when the ref asked , that let him know he was serious
Facts
@@lt.generalofsalt4273 well put
Yeah I thought, give him all the encouragement you can but when the whistle goes and the ref is about to start the round and he is still sitting there saying call it, then you call it man
He knew he could get seriously injured, it’s not that he not prepared it is when you know that you could have CTE and end up like Gerald McClellan who is currently paralyzed and lost 95% of his hearing. He doesn’t want to end up like that.
Edit: Joe also mentions Gerald went blind so if you still want to say Max should have continued fighting, go somewhere else and get away from combat sports if you want to see peoples’ lives and careers end with one severe injury.
Can’t wait for Brendan to change his mind now that Rogan said this
Hahahah facts dude
Hahahaha
brenda slob? great guy... never met him
Brenda?
I don't get this debate. The fighter can always tell the ref he's done. If the fighter doesn't trust his gut over his coach, that's on him, not the coach
So true!!!
it really sucks we can't watch what they're watching
@Liam Foster I don't, does that mean I can't be interested?
@Liam Foster cringe
@Google User hopefully!
For sure!! It’s the most annoying thing. I get why, because CZcams is stupid and Joe is high profile. But soo annoying
@@kevinb314 LOL I feel you bud
Understand Max wanting to stop, but I don't blame the coach for trying to motivate his fighter
@Zachary Hoy go find a girlfriend you angry weirdo
And dont start beating her either
Zachary Hoy Are you mentality challenged?
@Zachary Hoy 🤦♂️
There is a point where its not "motivating" him anymore. There is a point where he simply doesn't do what the fighter literally asks him.. CALL IT x 7 times.. That ain't motivating that is neglecting your fighter.
@Dankenstein If u wanna coach do your job..
Respect to rogan, he knows his boxing even boxers from england. Nigel Benn was the man back then, his wars with Eubanks were classics
The Dark Destroyer, what a killer.
McKellen is the guy who don king convinced him to fire Stewart and hire a guy who couldn't speak English for his corner. if I remember right there was something up with the ref as well. Fuck Don king. I can't remember why don king wanted to get rid of Manny tho money, power, or both I think. Can't say it enough fuck don king
A Prayer Before Dawn is an amazing movie. Check it out peeps.
He don't know shit about boxing 😂
@@Moari4lyfe1 you know more than him. We know.
I see why his coach was encouraging him. He won the first round imo. However the short notice fight had his cardio not up to par and its ok that he quit. Last thing we need is a death from a cardiac event in the cage. This isnt boxing. People dont need to die while competing
Oh you mean like Dada 5000 and Kimbo when Dada had a heart attack? lol
Perfectly summed up 👍
The fighter can always stop the fight. He can tap or just tell the ref he's done.
Carson Wentz but he can’t.
he wasn't going to DIE ffs. he always has the option to tap out or verbally quit. he 100% would have still been in control of his own health. bet he regretted quitting on his stool 5 minutes later.
The kid took the fight 5 day notice for the money. He looked drained and possibly cut too much weight without a proper camp against an experienced pro who was ready and had a full camp. Had nothing left after the second round and felt like dying. Pretty courageous move to go against his coach and take himself out of there bc you can get hurt badly in this sport. He's back now and won his last two fights since then. Good luck to him.
Boxing is different though they literally get knocked out and they let them recover to probably get knocked out again. There's way more brain damage in boxing.
And the gloves allow for more repeated concussive force. It's easier to get caught clean and go out with 4 ounce gloves rather than get your brain rattled for 30 minutes with 8 ounce gloves.
Don’t agree with that spinning heel to the head and you will never get up
@@danleon3143 yea but how many spinning heel hook knockouts do you really see in mma not very many. Sure a spinning heel hook ko is more devastating but u dont really see almost anyone throw it where as punches every fighter throws them and in boxing thats literally their only form of doing damage. Mma u have more ways to win other than just knocking ur opponent out such as submissions, kicks to the body hell some fights even end in leg kicks. With boxing you're primary target is the head and getting repeated blows there throughout many fights ultimately makes boxing more prone to brain damage than any other combat sport
@@DanielM796 FACT
@@DanielM796 completely agree, I always use the example of a 10 seconds window, if you had 10 seconds to inflict as much damage, you might get 2 maybe 3 spinning kicks, but with boxing, just imagine how many hooks they can land in 10 seconds... a hell of a lot and that damage is compound.
i feel the kid on this one. back when i played highschool football, i tried to get the coach to pull my out because i felt something was wrong. the coach screamed at me and refused. it wasnt fear, but that very next down i went in for a tackle and my leg ended up under the other teams qb completely destroying my knee and keeping me from ever playing another sport again
Sorry to hear that, what exactly happened to your knee?
My condolences to you for that. Also, that coach is a piece of work.
sorry mate,I hope you are doing fine much love
High school? Coach was playing for his ego at that point
Let me guess, they yanked your division 1 offers after that?
Imagine if Stephen A.Smith was commentatinh on this😂😂😂
HE QUIT IN THERE
Lmfao
Do you think he’d be yelling?
Im sure he will at some point
Hate to admit it, but he was right about Cowboy quitting though.
Idk what people are debating about this honestly. Its a perfectly normal response from the fighter and the coach.
Cause there isn’t anything else to talk about in mma
@@JBOM-qp8nq correct
cause the little mermaid reporter want to make it a big deal
To prevent death's in the cage
Because it shouldn't be perfectly normal ffs!
People should be much more upset at smiths coaches. He took so much more damage, had nearly no path to victory, and only said my teeth are falling out between round 4-5
What fight?
It was Smith Vs teixeira
They were not ALLOWED to stop it. Anthony Smith said that if his corner ever stops one of his fights, they are immediately fired. They made that deal to be in his corner. They have 0 blame.
@@Justice4Skye The corner has the legal responsibility to stop the fight. Smith should have his purse docked and his coaches should be barred from cageside by the commission for a year for agreeing to that.
@@Justice4Skye Smith's teeth learned that was a dumb idea, the bad way.
The one thing I will say is that old-school boxing trainers knew how to end a fight when a fighter wanted to quit without the whole world knowing the fighter quit. I don't blame the trainer for encouraging him, but having an overt quit vs. don't quit argument in plain view isn't really doing your fighter any favors from a PR perspective. There are better ways to handle it.
Here's my useless thought on the situation. The coach spends more time around his fighter more than anyone else. For however many weeks for camp theyre around eachother for what is probably 6hrs a day depending on the schedule. The coaches have a good understanding of what a fighter is capable of and how much he can push him. If the fighter is prone to hitting a mental wall at a certain point in a fight, the coach is there to break it down. Sure, you could argue that once the fighter says hes done, call it done but some fighters need that nudge because they cant muster it up themselves. Personally, I think coaches should Err on the side of caution and just throw in the towel if the fighter requests it because 30 seconds is not enough time judge if the fighter needs motivation or he's seriously hurt and needs serious medical attention. So let the guy live to fighter another day and let him take the L and work on pushing past mental barriers in camp if it turns out that the problem wasnt life or death. Nobody wants these guys to die in the cage/ring so lets keep these people safe or as safe as possible in a sport where theyre kicking and punching each other in the head
He took the fight on 5 days notice don’t know how much time they spent together
It's actually the opposite. Coaches who have been around a fighter forever have an emotional attachment to both the fighter and the fight. They don't see reality the way an outside observer does. Every coach wants to believe in his guy. Every coach wants to be the coach that talked their fighter off a cliff and then had them turn it around.
This is an area where boxing kicks MMA's ass, and it's because coaches are chastised for not being an adult when a fight should be stopped.
Everyones should read what the fighter had to say in his interview recently, he said thats what he expects his coach to do and he commended him for it. If a true fighter doesn't want to fight noone can convince him to but himself and he knows this
Unless your head has been beat in and the lights are on but no one is home. Plenty of fighters get knocked down and get back up but arent even there anymore. So many fighters think its second round but the fight is over. They fight multiple rounds without even knowing they did it. A fighter cant protect himself quite often
@@nickniesman7013 I agree with your points of disorientation, not knowing the round all these things are true. As a man, a human, the fact is no on is going to force you into that ring, you decide. Thats a fact unless your referring to situations where they physically force a fighter into a ring.
Every fighter says the same thing.... My corner did exactly what I wanted smh. Encourage yes... ignoring after NINE+ TIMES fighter says call it NO! Too many corners don't put their fighters health & wellness first & it's got to stop!
Ethan Seal Anthony pettis quit against tony Ferg he knew he wasn’t going to win people who don’t train can call fighters quitters but at the day end he saved his self from sever damage that ungrateful fans don’t have to experience.
M Batch Pettus quit because he had a broken hand
Not everyone needs to go out on their shield.
I believe in going out on my shield, but I dont believe someone should be frowned upon for not sharing my foolish sentiments.
@King Delevingne I'd love to see ur punk ass fight at this level.
Agree. If this was a title fight it would be different, particularly if it's later in the fighters career - but the kid is young and took this one on short notice. If he was getting beat up too badly and his brain was in a fog or whatever he's well within his rights to take the L and come back stronger next time
@King Delevingne jump in the ring with him then tough guy.
@austin M Nate diaz was like that before all the fights
There's a video of Benn meeting McClelland years later, on a wheelchair.
Man, it's one of the toughest things I've seen.
According to an article in The Observer, McClellan participated in dog fighting.[14][15] McClellan's trainer and family admitted that McClellan was involved with fighting pitbulls, and on one occasion had used tape to bind the jaws of a Labrador shut before allowing his pet pitbull "Deuce" to kill it"
Fuck that dude
Craig Smart Wow and just like that I’m happy that dudes life got fucked up the way it did. He deserves every ounce of pain he gets and I hope it’s a lot
@@cwbyfan93 thats such an ignorant thing to say. the guy and his whole family will suffer for the rest of their lives due to this. nothing could justify the pain caused, even some mistakes he made in his earlier life.
justCiaranYT I feel bad for his family of course. I can’t imagine. But Mclelland? Nah. That’s some pure evil shit that he did. He might be a nice guy but that evil exists in his heart, his soul, and his very being. And I don’t have sympathy for any individual in any condition who has that sort of evil inside of them
@@craigsmart1986 was talking about Benn
HEY JOE AND EDITORS LISTEN TO YOUR VIEWERS!!!
IF YOU PULL UP SOMETHING THAT WONT BE A COPYSTRIKE LET IT PLAY ON SCREEN!!!
Lol
Nigel Benn would be a sick guest on the show
Can't wait for rogan to talk about Mike Perry GF corning
Bahahahahahaha
That's a subject I fear he won't cover for awhile lol
Benn vs McClellan had one of the scariest endings I'd ever seen in sports. Not just boxing, but sports.
It was the one of the greatest fights, obviously a shame what happened to McCellan though.
took fight on 5 days notice...... went 2 hard rounds..... full camp he could go 3
I could listen to Rogan explain fights for hours without seeing the actual fight
like Joe said Only the fighter knows. dude stayed in fight until he realized he was in danger
Danger? It was a cage fight. Danger was supposed to be there.
You listen to your fighter. Period. That's terrible corner work. I may have agreed if I'd never seen the Tyson vs Golata fight. Golata looked completely fine even got booed out of the arena when he quit. Turns out the dude was seriously injured. Detached retina fractured jaw and a list of other injuries. But I cant stress how normal he looked. Always listen to the fighter, when hes had enough hes had enough. Golata could have died from the next punch from a normal boxer. He was fighting Tyson.
He thought Joe Rogan would agree with him on this, kept quiet for 5 minutes when he realized that wasn't the case
Yeah that was awkward😁
It's casual discussion. He said sometimes fighters need motivation, Joe said some fighters know they're done. They're both right
@@purplemonkeyelephant yep, it's not binary, not black or white.
i believe it was OK for the coach to try and motivate the fighter, but the kid nearly begged to not continue, and that should have made the coach to accept the situation. Regardless how well they know each other etc etc, the trainer cannot 100% understand what his fighter goes through in that specific moment
@ man, having compassion for humans means hes shilling. Don't you have an egirl to simp on somewhere?
The Benn fight was crazy
He was a warrior (his first fight with Eubank was great too), but turned into a chicken when hearing Roy Jones or James Toney's names.
I always think of this fight when fighters want to stop. Im glad Joe mentioned this.
Coach wasn't that wrong, but the fighter was absolutely not in the wrong!!!!
@King Delevingne ok, armchair warrior
@@mmmyum4779 He's not wrong though. The greats just don't quit.
2 wrongs sorta made it right lol
“It’s entirely possible”
Man that video where Nigel is with Gerald and his wife is a tear jerker. It really shows how many lives that one fight impacted.
Does anybody know if they'll be able to show the clips in screen when they move to Spotify
Schilling will be fighting for extra cigarettes soon.
"That was a wild fight, Nigel Benn had those crazy dreadlocks" -- Joe Rogan 2020
I just hope that max takes this as a learning opportunity, and doesn’t decide to give up, because even though he gassed out in the first, he showed some true talent. He just needs to be willing to learn from this, Or if he feels like he wasn’t properly prepared for the ufc environment then maybe he should consider switching camps
He was on 5 day notice, credit to him for stepping in that octagon
I always look for Joe's context on these debates. Its refreshing and always helps me to understand all view points.
You reminded me of Jamie Varner saying he couldn’t continue after getting hit in the balls by Cerrone
It’s the fighter’s decision, period.
Schilling will be punking people for extra bread slices and peanut butter packets soon.
Prolly but only if theyre drunk as🤬holes or jack'n in his bathroom 🤔
There is no discussion. If a fighter doesnt want to continue, thats it. Its over.
Max is known to quit on his self. The coach knew Max was like that. He was doing his job as a coach trying to get his fighter back into the fight. Read Max's interview he says the same thing.
there is always more than one way to look at something
Than the fighter can do it himself and say it himself to the ref. Simple as
Coach should stop the fight when the fighter can no longer win, especially when injured.
But short of that...fighter should choose.
Injury - ok. How do you determine can “no longer win”?!
@@alextownsend6662 oh shush. Stop looking for an argument. There's nothing wrong with what OP said
@@alextownsend6662 fatigue or a obvious concussion
@@XxPunxunite It's a valid question "Can no longer win" can mean behind on the scorecard. It could mean they're starting to gas out. It could mean a bunch of things and asking for clarification on a statement isn't looking for an argument.
@@alextownsend6662 when the guy can barely fucking stand. He's not gonna win
Joe “maybe you should call before the guy calls” rogan
Zayors Bmx Joe “what a old tired joke you’re repeating” rogan
Joe “but I’m to dumb to realize I’m using it to” rogan
Zayors Bmx no nice try 😆
Benn vs Gerald one of the most underrated fights in history
It’s super hard to watch knowing what happened to McClennan
@@JAw1729 great fight is a great fight regardless of what happened after
Im not mad at the coach but he should've stopped the fight and saved the guy the sting of calling his own fight on national TV
@Zachary Hoy he sounds like an adult who can see the world past Black/White to me
A new mindset is required...If any fighter ever says I'm finished that's it..Sooner or later if forced to go on someone will die...Then the real shit hits the fan !
Read Max's interview. He quits on his self. He needs the coach to keep him in the fight.
That’s too extreme. I think coaches just need to be more sensitive about when a fighters done.
Ask more questions. Learn how to figure your fighter out better. Maybe even have a sports psychologist on hand.
Improvement can always be made without having to going too far in one direction.
Problem with people is that it always has to be one way or the other. It’s like you can’t walk and chew bubblegum at the same time.
Jojoe. Once again, way too extreme. Sure, nothing is perfect. So that means what? Let rapists rape people because nothing is perfect? Let murderers kill because nothing is perfect?
How about, we can make things better and let people do what they want at the same time. You know you can do things at the same time right?
You want to completely throw out one side of the issue, while at the same time saying nothing is perfect. It’s a contradiction. You’re being a hypocrite, which is what being extreme leads you to.
@ Once a fight stops being competitive whats the point in sending a guy back out there to get ko'd
Russell You’ve clearly never seen a comeback fight huh?
There’s honestly no controversy in this situation, the coach tried to encourage his fighter for the whole minute, the fighter said no and the fight was called off, that’s the most the coach could do.
Bullshit. The fighter kept saying "call it" and the coach kept not doing it all the way until the bell rang. At that point the coach has to call it. What you wanna force your fighter to fight because the bell rang and you didn't call it despite him telling you to?
Absolute shit take. The coach can fuck off.
Remember when Pennington wanted to stop and then got her nose severely fucked up like two seconds later? Dom said it best, the athlete almost never wants to stop. This kid was gonna try and hit a single-leg, and then be helpless for the rest of the round knowing he took the fight on ten days and doesn’t have the gass tank, his corner isn’t gonna throw in the towel and dude he’s fighting isn’t gonna submit him. In boxing the best corners throw in the towel as soon as their fighter is taking unnecessary punishment or can no longer win, otherwise they jeopardize their fighters livelihood and career moving forward. Anthony Smith is still all about his coach, meanwhile I bet you anything he never fights the same again after that Glover fight. A coach’s job isn’t to force a fighter to participate when they feel they can’t, a coaches job is to provide fucking coaching to their fighter. Which sometimes means telling them it’s okay to call a fucking fight before suffering an injury that could result in a lay-off or potentially ruining their athletic career.
Your missing the point bud
Come at it In a way you understand. If you have ever been in an mma ,bjj,wrestling , kickboxing match think of it you go in there win round 1 lose round 2 and his safety was not at risk at all he was not injured just exhausted. I’d no doubt expect my coach to push me no matter what. Max is going to look back and regret this decision becuase in the moment extausted and tired I’ve made that same decision and if it weren’t for my coaches I would have lost all of these fights
Can you imagine if Roy Jones fought mcclean in their primes.
Damn, I went and watched an interview with McClellan 6 years after the fight.
Just a sad story, almost shed a tear for the guy.
I recommend everyone watches the Gman Benn documentary it’s my favorite doc ever. It’s something else
"Maybe it was a good thing he stopped"
I really like that statement
Remember that Benn fight like it was yesterday. Benn showed heart like I'd rarely seen before or since in that ring. He was never the same himself after!! Real life Rocky moment!
I always think of GSP telling his coach that his groin was torn and his coach said ‘hit him with your groin!’
Saw highlights of the fight, and the outcome was so brutally bleak...
Saw Gerald McClellan in an interview taken after 6 years, and his condition was heartbreaking...
Saw Nigel Benn vs. Gerald McClellan after 12 years of the incident, and that shit had me in tears...
Seems like a sensible boy who knows when he's beaten. Continuing against his better judgment and incurring damage, he has no use for the future.
We all have a limit and this young dude found his, no shame in it, respect for stepping in the octagon.
I love watching Joe Rogan reacting to a youtube video that I cant see, really adds to the entertainment value of the video.
if yall havent seen that fight joe is referring too, there is a short doc on it.. its sad af, but real.
I remember that fight joe. It was pure brutality at its height. Gerald was a beast. God bless him
McClellan fought Julian Jackson before that fight. Jackson was a devastating puncher and hit Gerald with some hard shots. Jackson eventually got TKO'd, but some of his shots could have had a snowball effect on Gerald.
I think they’re both right and it just depends on the situation. At the VERY LEAST, you need 100% transparent communication between coach and fighter. When you’re exhausted you’re not gonna speak eloquently so the coach needs to know the difference between somethings seriously wrong or the fighters just having a hard time with the bright lights cause the words and demeanor can be the same. Whichever the case is, you NEED the communication no matter what.
Only sane comment
Here after schilling finally got a win. It was vs an extremely drunk guy in a bar that Joe sucker punched, but a wins a win. Congrats Joe
Now I need to look up the fight they were talking about 😣 anyone got a link.
McClellan vs benn it’s on yt..
@@aaron4walg Thanks
I punched MYSELF in the jaw as hard as I could as a teenager (to impress a girl that I wasn't even attracted to). I played it off, for the rest of the day at work I felt like I wasn't quite actually in reality. I never did that stunt again. That was over 20 years ago but I still remember the sensation of doing my job (bagging groceries) while feeling like I was just controlling a robot. I did my job well, no one noticed, but I was designated driver for my body that day, I wasn't in my body. I honestly don't know how to describe it.
Your body may break down and you may feel bad about it, but at least you can feel bad and remember what it once was or what it could be like. Losing your mind means you aren't you ever again. Living dead. (which is probably the best way to describe how I felt that day)
Can you post a link to the original clip?
Joe is spot on! The nigel benn fight is a perfect example of people having their lives destroyed because they're taking far too much punishment and we need to stop fights sooner, I'd rather fights stop to soon than see a guy hurt.
The fight with Julian Jackson is where the damage was done You could hear his speech change after that fight happen
Glad someone brought that up
A coach should recognize when a fighter's ego is getting in the way. A fighter should recognize when they've reached their limits.
The real question is, does Rogan have a photographic memory?
Did monster pay him to wear this shirt?? The advertisers are infiltrating Joe. Haha
Joe summarized almost what happened to Gerald McClellan.... Almost. What actually happened was Gerald won the belt from Julian "the Hawk" Jackson a couple fights before and to describe the fight as anything less than a war would be an understatement. When you put 2 of the hardest punchers in boxing history against each other in the G Man vs the Hawk, someone is getting KOd violently. Gerald proved to have the better chin. Absorbing powerful punches that have put every other opponent to sleep. Jackson was ultimately KOd in the 5th round and after the fight Gerald during his interview said Julian punches very hard and would need to sleep a few days straight to rid himself of the terrible headache he had after the fight. During a sparring session with fellow Kronk Gym fighter Tarick Salmaci in training afterwards, McClellan was hit with a jab and this caused the session to be terminated. Gerald claimed that he had gotten thumbed in the eye but a little later in the locker room he told Salmaci he was seriously hurt by the jab. Salmaci noted that after he hit Gerald with the jab, McClellan began blinking rapidly just as he did in the fight against Benn and this was a year before the infamous fight with Benn.
Once you take this into consideration and go back and watch the fights against Jackson, then rewatch the entire fight in London vs Benn, only then can you really appreciate the warrior the G Man truly was. This is not to take anything away from Nigel Benn because he did afterall get the W, but he had LOTS of help in getting it. Im not trying to make excuses for McClellan losing but if you go back and watch the fight you cant argue with what happened. From the ref constantly impeding Gerald from finishing Benn (who was the hometown hero) to the no test for steroids which Benn admittedly would have failed for if tested for steroids, the list goes on...... Im not directly blaming Jackson either. Im only bringing it to the attention of those who dont know Gerald's history before his fight with Benn. Gerald's granite chin actually worked against him in many ways because he was able to take shots that would knock anyone else out & keep coming forward. Benn was a hell of a hard puncher but he wasnt a Julian Jackson hard puncher. I think it was the 8th round when Benn swung at Gerald and missed causing him to stumble forward and accidently headbutt Gerald in the face. Actually more like the eye area but that was the beginning of the end for the G Man who still fought back valiantly for the next 2 rounds but ultimately he took a knee followed immediately by another knee where he allowed the ref to count him out. Then he walked back to his corner & before they could get the stool under his ass, he slumped in his corner. His trainer squirted water on his head to which he replied "that shit feels like its inside my head" seconds later he was unconscious. He woke up in the ambulance & asked his trainer what the fuck happened, I got knocked out? The doctors had to do emergency surgery to remove a blood clot that would have killed him had it not been removed and he was in a coma for almost 2 weeks. When he woke up he was completely blind and 80% deaf with difficulty comprehending words when spoken to. Its a tragic tale of the brutal reality of boxing and the risks the fighters put themselves at for the fans' entertainment.
People like to make it seem as if Benn ran clean over the G Man but thats NOT nearly what happened. Not even close. Had Gerald not had the injury coming into the fight with Benn and was 100% healthy, Nigel Benn would NOT have made it through the 3rd round under any circumstances whatsoever. Few things are impossible but that would have been impossible on every level. No disrespect to Benn but the G Man was just on another level above everyone else. Who else could KO Julian Jackson not once but twice but the G Man himself? Go watch some Julian the Hawk Jackson highlights and some Gerald McClellan highlights. I rest my case
Based write-up very nice
You get 20 seconds to get back in the ring it's not the normal 10 seconds for a knockdown
Coach: If he dies, he dies.
Lol
he wasnt dying just being dramatic
Rip to G Man 😞
He’s not dead
Two things can be true at once: the coach did his job and the fighter couldn't finish his. Five minutes is a long round when you're meat.
ultimately in this case the fighter knew he was beyond that point where their coach trying to motivate him and giving that extra push to keep going was going to work, 9 out of 10 times it probably refocuses and gets the guy psyched up for that next round. It's a fine line
They ended up stopping the fight. I don't get the controversy. He had a one minute pep talk to see if he would change his mind. When he didn't change his mind they stopped the fight
Thank you. He literally stopped the fight. It's like people like being outraged for other people these days...
It wasn't his corner that stopped the fight, it was an official. Max's corner was refusing to throw the towel in.
Unpopular opnion: The corner was trying the best to motivate thier athlete to go into the next round. Although it is very difficult for fighters the corner has to try to keep thier fighter spirts up.
I have to agree with you. If you trust your trainer/cornerman, know hes a pro, and know he has your best interest at heart, than you know hes telling you the truth and what you need to do. Of course thats if you have a good trainer. Most guys, certainly myself want to quit after that first shot to the face. You brain goes “holy smokes, this sucks!” But your coach keeps you in the fight. Its just part of the sport. So many people think they are not capable of so much more than they are, especially in that environment. You need a good coach to keep you in the fight.
I like how Joe paints a picture of past fights like how big the fight was & all
Same thing happened against Mike Tyson.
He started blinking weird from the 2nd round
I think he has that blinking thing coming into the fight, he was doing it in promos
@@aaron4walg OK 👍think if I can remember noticing In the 2nd but if you are saying before it's terrible he past his medical
If a fighter cant continue it's up to the fighter his coach and even the cage doc can stop the fight for whatever reason seems necessary. Cuts, dehydration, or even damage.
Joe didn't mention that Benn hit Gerald with dozens of rabbit punches.
"He came out of it okay?"
"No."
What difference is there between quitting in that moment vs tapping?
And people say Rogan isn’t a useful part of the UFC.. He is the best a giving context imo.
Johnny woulda won the all valley tournament if ole pat didnt push danielson to crane kick him in the teeth lol.
Joe really took the conversation so far away from the point schilling was trying to make about the coach just trying to do his job and the criticism he's gotten for attempting to keep his fighter mentally in the fight
Had he continued and won everyone would be praising the coach now.
if he quits and regrets it that’s on him, props for even fighting tho
I wish we could of seen what they were looking at... seems like Joe doesn’t really show the screen anymore.
God listen to that dude trying to breath thru his nose. CRAZY
Nigel benn was never the same after this fight
A Fighter makes up their own mind to carry on with the game of Fist'o Cuffs.. ..They can tap out at any time They choose....given that an arm is free to do so.
You can verbally tap if no arm is free too. Idk I’ve ever seen it actually happen though
You’re allowed have more seconds if you get knocked out of the ring
getting your medical advice from experts in the fight game is the same reason why you shouldn't get your medical advice from a game show host.
"McClellan participated in dog fighting. McClellan's trainer and family admitted that McClellan was involved with fighting pitbulls, and on one occasion had used tape to bind the jaws of a Labrador shut before allowing his pet Pitbull "Deuce" to kill it." KARMA
I wish they would show us the screen that they are watching and talking about.
Always so frustrated when people talk about getting more than ten seconds in boxing. It isn’t from the moment they hit the floor it is from the moment the opposing fighter retreats to the corner... smh
Hu hu ha ha
The joe Rogan experience
Bro... Hu hu ha ha to you too
There is a difference between wanting to quit from taking damage and wanting to quit coz of fatigue and the coaches can see that and make the correct call. Quitting because you were tired will screw the guy up for life and not just fighting
Is the coach a medical doctor or a psychiatrist? How can he make the correct call? He is basing the whole situation off his first instinct, “the fighter is tired.” Your point is based on meat head mentality and not emotional intelligence
@@mattyp7582 They have seen how much damage he has taken? duh
Link to the fight Rogan is talking about, please?