I don't know that this really applies to only the church. Short of a vetted babysitter, I'm not sure why a child is being left with anyone you don't absolutely trust. I wouldn't leave my child alone with a teacher, a clergy member, certain family members, etc. If its a group thing, like a youth group where there will be other kids and multiple sets of adults, the risk of abuse goes down, but one on one should be a no no.
@@xmillion1704 was that the question? Forrest didn't ask the question until we were 45 minutes into the video and I saw your comment during the first call. If you're response was to the question, my bad.
RJ: if evolution is real, spiders should have wings because their lives would be easier. Also RJ: I believe spiders were created by an omniscient, omnipotent God. Why didn't that god create spiders with wings?
Maybe because a god would know that spiders with wings wouldn't be good for other lifeforms. But evolution wouldn't care about other lifeforms, it would only "care" about what genes produce a reproductive advantage.
Why don't we have wings? Evidently angels do? If you are an uneducated primitive, magic is an explanation for everything. Creationists need smaller egos and to go to school.
Something something fall of man also very convenient for God to make spiders with fangs that could pierce and suck out dry its preys even before Adam and eve at an apple and cursed them lmao
I couldn't understand why RJ couldn't understand the explanations that Forrest and Armen were giving, it was so clearly explained and then.... Oh. God. He's not going to be rational at all...
Obtaining something, through force or threats. is the definition, but he calls it "salvation". Christians seem to learn only "when" to use words, instead of what they actually mean. Gr8! Peace ☮💜Love
I love the three host shows, it really is like a panel with a caller. And the long episodes are the best because they have the time to have better discussions (or at least more of them.)
Time stamps for the callers during this three hour long episode!: 21:16 Adam - Wants to talk about the design argument. 1:07:36 RJ - If evolution's real, why haven't spiders developed wings? 1:55:41 Mikael - Wants to talk about atheists that keep insisting that Jesus is an apocalyptic preacher.
Thank you so much for doing this! I know it takes time and patience, and I appreciate your courtesy. When there are no time stamps on these episodes and nobody posts them in the comments I now move on to watch something else. My attention span is unpredictable and sometimes VERY limited, so I do not waste my time I'm disinterested in a call or in the discussion between calls.
@@MrCanis4- I doubt that he would treat his child in the ways of his god that he defended on the call. But he would likely teach his child to believe in his god and that it's okay for his god to do those things.
Armin is amazing. I love the way he lays out the logical process of defining "mind" and defining god into existence. Seth and Forrest are great too. You guys are so patient, I just don't know how you do it.
This is why I have no problem calling him what he is: a fictional character. People will respond "but there is a historical basis that really lived!" while ignoring the fact that almost nobody worships him because of the potential historical basis,they worship the magic guy who does magic and died and came back to life because magic. You can't have it both ways.
@@IllustriousCrocoduck Thing is I think it generally doesn't matter whether he did or didn't exist. Saying that a man called Jesus existed is one of those unremarkable claims that probably shouldn't require evidence, and I feel that even bothering to push back on this claim just hinders the conversation/debate from progressing onto what does matter, I.e. whether he was divine.
@@danoliver3053 maybe I should clarify because I think we are saying the same thing. I think it is irrelevant if there was a historical basis, even if his name was Jesus. I don't care one iota. All I care about is if someone says he did magic and resurrected, they are factually incorrect- that is impossible and didn't happen, and a person claiming otherwise has to try to justify that, which they can't. That's all I care about. Make the person try to defend their belief, and in doing so, confront the OBVIOUS issues. Too few believers actually do this. They are blind to the clear impossibilities.
@@petermeichan3160 lol While you seem to adopt a somewhat oppositional tone, the specific verbiage you exclaim is not mutually exclusive of the OP's observation. In fact, the most rational interpretation of the OP's comment is that they HAVE viewed early episodes, AND favorably.
This is possibly my favorite Atheist Experience of all time! Having the 3 best, yet diverse atheist minds together on the show…Wow!!! Thanks for giving us such a rich, high quality show! A biologist, former Christian, and former Muslim cover all of the major bases. And that doesn’t even cover the amazing personalities of you all! Thanks sooo much for giving this to us. 😃
To the guy asking why spiders don't have wings... Pretty sure they developed their webs to be really good at catching winged insects and other bugs. Having wings would possibly increase the risk of getting caught in your own web.
Loved Armin's point - If you have no restrictions in how you expand your definition of the terms (e.g. mind), you can fit any pet deity into your beliefs that you like.
At the end. It was 1980 before married women could accrue credit in their own name. Credit bureaus would only count credit in the man's name whether or not he worked and paid the bills. OB/GYN doctors kept their records in the husband's name only even though the woman was the client/patient. 1980 folks. It was almost impossible for divorced women to get credit even after that.
Circa 1950, my grandmother needed surgery. My asshole grandfather didn't believe her that she was in pain, and also didn't believe the doctors that she had a real medical problem. In those days, a married woman couldn't get any kind of surgery without her husband's signature on the consent form, and he wouldn't give it. A non-married woman could sign her own consent, at least where she was getting the surgery, so she divorced him. It was undoubtedly the best thing she ever did in her life, because she then got to live her own life.
@@mirandarensberger6919 Women were basically considered property of their husbands. I remember hearing once as a kid in the 1950s a woman say that if she left her husband, he would just get the police to bring her back. She was serious.
Until the 1970's, marital r@pe was legal in the U.S. I remember having a discussion about this with a male coworker, in about 1980, when it was still legal in many states. He thought it wasn't r@pe, because it was a wife's duty to be available to her husband. I thought that was outrageous, but it was a common belief. The last states to criminalize marital r@pe were Oklahoma and North Carolina, in 1993. Still, in some places, it isn't treated the same as other r@pes, which are often not taken very seriously, either.
@@ottomaddoxx5360 It was after that in the late 1970s that I applied for a Master Card (was called a Master Charge then) with a $300 credit limit. I got turned down by the bank so I went there and asked why. I was told the reason was I was divorced and if I got pregnant, I might not be able to pay the bill. They presumed divorced women were too promiscuous. I banged my fist on the guy’s desk and told him very sternly, “That’s not a good enough reason and I expected a better one or my card.” He left for a few minutes and returned to tell me I would have my card in 3 days. We women still had to fight for recognition as fully equal. Still do.
I went to the doctor, early 80s, as a young teen with severe endometriosis. I was given the name of some religious book written on a prescription pad. I was so embarrassed it took another 18 years of suffering before I was properly diagnosed and had surgery
That first 15 mins is the ultimate reason to have different hosts. And they are great. We need all these views because one of them is the one that will get through to someone at some time. Thanks for providing access to resources like these thinkers.
Perfect response to this kind of thinking: "how do you not know that a God didn't originally design everything to be crappy, and the apple suddenly made everything better?"
I love that Armin opened this knowledge mindbomb of shit and while Seth is having something between existential crisis and "let me read EVERYTHING about this", Forrest is just hammering it down with the puns.
Rj: "just because you don't think it is reasonsble doesn’t mean it isn't true" Rj, "evolution isn't real because I find non-winged spiders unreasonable"
at 15:04 Armin very eloquently makes his excellent point: "they use faith and revelation as a methodology to come to the truth" ... "a flawed methodology to come up with their conclusions"
@@theflaggedyoutuberii4311 No. I am talking about you are trying to get a battered woman to quit making excuses for how their husband/bf treats them. The women are taking the blame on themselves instead of admitting that the man in their life is wrong to treat them bad. God is the abuser.
Adam was done right after Forrest's first explanation. Then it was just Adam scrambling. After Armin talked to him about the meanings words he was totally lost. Then when Forrest came back, Adam's personal incredulity and circular pre-suppositions dissipated everything he came in with.
I think he was done not two sentences into reading his script, and his entire syllogism was predicated on false premises to begin with, so valid logic or not, his conclusion could have only been invalid, and that before he even got to the second premise!
@@Bob-of-Zoid Oh ya, those theist callers and their dreaded scripts. And because they have been led into believing these horrendously fallacious beliefs because they were--and remain incapable of identifying horrendous logic, their scripts just naturally are filled with nothing other than horrendously flawed logic.
@@casparuskruger4807 It's only every believer in absurd BS defending their BS, from the religiose over the flat earthers to the more scientifically informed pseudo-scientists looking at making a killing with it, all mutilate philosophy to have the same weight as scientific inquiry, and when cornered even go as far as saying "But science relies on philosophy" and pretend that just because that is true, that it means they are coming up with scientific facts, laws, and theories based on pure philosophical mental acrobatics which couldn't be further from the truth! That's just not how it works, it's not how any of this works! Oh, and may I add they reject it when you call their supposed "Science", that was not conducted in a lab, has no peer reviewed publications, or none being taken seriously, no math behind it... and pretty much literally pulled out of their ass, and call it mere philosophical masturbation, because they see their non methodology as a valid and reasonable basis to continue arguing that their own way of doing it all wrong is what's wrong with science!🥵 It makes my brain hurt!!🤕
There was actually a study done on "holy water" in churches that people dip into, and it was found to contain E Coli in spades. So, Armin is absolutely right. Nasty stuff.
As a child I used to think the rancid smell in many churches came from the stagnant "holy" water... it always looked like it could and should stink up such a huge building😂
@@TigreModerata I was raised Southern Baptist so we didn't believe in holy water bs anyway. The baptismal tank people got dunked in was thankfully emptied and cleaned after each use. I do remember knowing when we were going to do the "last supper" thing because the whole church smelled like Welch's grape juice. We didn't do naughty things like wine you know. LOL And no one bothered with blessing anything. It just got passed around in tiny little glasses and broken up regular crackers on a tray.
@@rhondah1587 We had individual shot glasses of grape juice, so that was fine. But we also had whole loaves of bread, which everyone just ripped a hunk off of.
@@rhondah1587 The Bible says bread, so you'd better believe we used bread, lol. At least we only did it four times a year. Catholics do communion weekly. So what I'm getting here is that Christianity develops your immune system, but Catholicism does it more strenuously than many Protestant churches. 🤢
Wow! Atheist Jesus blessed us with a most awesome 3 hour show hosted by some very astute gentlemen, today! (It's like the "Gilligan's Island" of anti-apologetics.)
@@mirandarensberger6919 lol Indeed, and coincidentally, remarkably similar in appearance to two of my favorite hosts who've appeared previously! (Full disclosure, I don't recall any show ever being (co)hosted by anyone whom I would not rate as one of my favorites.)
Indeed. "A recent study suggests holy water could be harmful to your health, as much of it contains fecal matter. Some of the water studied contained up to 62 million fecal bacteria in every milliliter of holy water. For comparison, British tap water legally cannot have more than 100 bacteria per milliliter." I suppose an optimistic apologist could say "It could be worse. Our holy water only contains 620,000 times the amount of poop germs legally allotted to our drinking water."
For anyone looking for the question of the week segment, last week's answers are at 54:45 and this week's question is at 55:49. Jeremy is an outstanding host, and we love him.
Mikael: Thanks for admitting you were wrong, that's admirable. Forrest/Armin: Here's where you're wrong about a ton of stuff Mikael: Oh, I'M not wrong.
In the story clod says it will kill them if they eat from the tree of knowledge. The snake tells them clod won"t kill them. They eat the fruit but clod punishes them but doesn't kill them. Clod lied and the snake told the truth. The snake gets punished for telling the truth. The humans get punished for obtaining knowledge. The moral is what? Do what you are told and don"t seek to learn.
The KJV pointedly depicts god promising that, " . . . in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." The apologists' inevitable response is a lot of hand-waving hemming and hawing with, "Well, god didn't actually mean they'd drop dead ON THAT VERY DAY exactly, because sometimes the bible authors used the term "day" to denote some other time frame completely, either in their ineffable wisdom or according to god's explicit dictation or somesuch, don't you know? See, what you need to understand is, that what god actually meant is that starting on that day GOING FORWARD, man would commence the process that would inevitably conclude with the cessation of his life on some undefined day in the far future, so that his earthly demise only really exists in this context as some divinely vague eventuality." So, it's more like "the long slow goodbye smite of god", such that it could almost seem to be virtually unrelated to any long forgotten act of biting into some random piece of fruit that just happened to occur several centuries earlier.
@@xmillion1704 Which is extra funny, because the six days creation were definitely literal days to them, but suddenly they can allow the text not to mean what it says if the alternative is god is a liar.
🤩 love the freethought trinity...the machine gun, machine gun, squirt gun 😆 Also, it's a bad idea at church to ask if the body of christ is gluten free.
As a physics professor that's a prior Marine, RJ is why I don't tell anyone I was in the military especially as infantry. It's embarrassing. So much so I renounced my citizenship and moved all across the world.
@@JimCastleberryoh yes I forgot, you claim to have fought the Nazis,😅😅😅😅 but you called them godliness left wing socialists😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅. Stolen valour is a crime
1:34:32 An almost verbatim transcription between Forrest and RJ: Forrest-“Let’s SAY your god is real, he’s evil.” RJ-“So since he didn’t do what you what you wanted him to do, he can’t be real?”
This was such a brilliant episode. Armin's razor sharp logic, Forrest's biological knowledge and well-spoken wit, and Seth's empathetic viewpoint and experience on the ground with what theists actually believe. This combination allows for the best responses and counter arguments to basically anything the callers can throw at them. I just really didn't expect r*pe apologia from Mikael at the end there....that was really gross and he is a very deluded and indoctrinated individual. I do not like that man at all. Even if she said "ok", that's still coercion and sexual assault. What, is she gonna say no to god and his messenger? Absolutely disgusting, and actually a great example of how even when "consent" is given, these power imbalances can still lead to r*pe. Sorry, but it made me sick to my actual stomach when that guy told Forrest "thanks for acknowledging that you were wrong" when he will not acknowledge that he is apologizing for actual atrocities, and will now walk away more confident that he's right. It's a joke to him. I'm glad he will never have to experience anything like that. I can't get out of my head how awful and immoral some Christians can be under the guise of peace and caring and forgiveness. It's like Forrest always says, and it makes perfect sense... "Jesus loves you" is an awful, mean, evil and horrible phrase because of what it implies.
When in church, never shout the score of the football game you're listening to on your phone. The people around you might be listening to different games while recording your game to watch later.
Truly sound advice. The only caveat I can conceive, being, if you bet against the pastor's team and your team's winning and you want to fuck with him mid-sermon, lording over him, so to speak.
This was the most I laughed in a long time. I think Seth was traumatized by Armin's statement of fact about holy water. Also, "how about we talk another 20 minutes about Forrest's name..." 😂🤣😄👍
Three minutes prior: "what Jeremy brought up..." Now: "I wouldn't want to address you the wrong way, should I call you Forrest or Mr. Forrest?" Like dude, if you want to act that way at least be consistent.
Adam, take your "model" and submit it. You'll need to give good arguments for redefining certain terms, like really robust examples and arguments outside of your syllogism, for why your definition should be the new objective ones. Good luck!
I remember reading the Bible so I could understand the god I loved better and every few chapters was a kick in the guts. I love how Seth makes us think of holding this god to our own moral standard.
To use the baby on the keyboard metaphor, father figure gives the baby a choice between a black button and a lit-up red button and the punishes EVERYTHING for the baby choosing the red button.
Mikael-GA needs to take up his question with Bart Erhman himself. We have several places in the NT where the Jeebus character says he will be right back and those standing before him will not die before he comes back and they assumed that when he did come back, the world as they knew it would end and they would have a new earth where he would rule over after destroying all the unbelievers and have defeated the "dark forces." LOL Edit: Sermon on the Mount: Give no thought for the morrow. (If that's not apocalyptic, what does Mikael think is?)
Teeny tiny point, but: Lepidoptera (moths and butterflies) are 90% wing. They’re /super/ light and /super/ small. Their cost for being able to fly is that they are super easy prey that are easy to swallow; but they’re fast. Their flight patterns are evasive and their endurance is pretty spectacular. But again, flight costs them something.
RJ: If he made Adam and Eve ignorant of evil, then they didn't make a choice. If you have no experience with consequencea and repurcussions, then you don't know what even doing something when someone tells you not to. And he made us this way and he knows that he made us this way. It's not just bad planning, if he's gonna punish all of us after them, it's a morally bad thing to do. Reprehensible, dude.
Reminds me of a hitchhikers guide quote. "Its unpleasant. Like being drunk." "Being drunk is rather pleasurable." "Not from the water's perspective." A
@@xmillion1704 I understand words just fine, thanks. But over and above actual meaning is funny associative meaning. Drinking. Straws. Funny. Oh, never mind. Also, I didn't disagree or disparage. I just pointed at the association within those 2 elements. You either understood that or didn't. And replied with guns blazing. Good job.
@@brucebaker810 My bad. I was in a bit of a mood because of something else and your cleverness, which I greatly appreciate, flew right over my head. Nicely played, sir. (It seemed you were accusing me of a straw man.)
Caller RJ from CO. Says that death was not a thing before "sin". Well buddy, god made us to die. How do I know this? Genesis 3:22-24 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”- therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden. In other words, man would live forever ONLY if thy had access to the tree of life. This means that man was mortal. Also god cast them out the garden because man became like god. It would be nice if Christians would read their own book instead of the cherry picked apologetics that their pastors tell them on Sunday.
I fell asleep while listening to the Mikael part of this episode (it was very late at night), and had a dream that Forrest and Armin were running a reality show to cast a production of Jesus Christ Superstar, and so much of the dialogue from this part worked in the dream.
Never let up when you have them on the run and defensive. Bcuz they may be nice now, but if they get their power back like they are trying to do they will take us back to the dark ages.
It can take the channel days to have a strike against a false accusation of copyright infringement removed. And there are people desperate to close the channel down
Mikael (2:16:48): Most scholars who study the New Testament are employed by organisations which require the signing of a statement of faith. One's conclusions mean nothing if one has promised in advance to reach them, and if one's paycheck depends on reaching those conclusions.
@@theflaggedyoutuberii4311 Publicly available information. Google the name of the organisation (e,g, Answers in Genesis, Biola University) + statement of faith. Then you can see if the 'scholar' in question is legally bound to say that the Bible is true.
@@GodcodeX77 Yes. I dont understand what your question has to do with my comment, but I support a womans right to have an abortion with my whole being.
Pastor Joel Osteen Lakewood Church Houston's megachurch burglarized of $600K Thieves took $200K in cash and $400K in checks from safe. A church employee and an off-duty sheriff's deputy working security discovered the money was missing. The cash, checks and envelopes containing written credit card information, and it is limited only to those funds contributed in the church services on Saturday, March 8 and Sunday, March 9, 2014 7 years later Plumber discovers money, checks in wall of Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Church years after $600K burglary The 500 envelopes full of cash and checks were found behind a loose toilet as workers moved insulation out of the wall Nov. 10, 2021. Plumber who found money stashed in Joel Osteen's church gets $20K reward from Crime Stoppers By Miya Shay KTRK 7 abc Tuesday, December 7, 2021 At the time of the theft, Lakewood Church gave Crime Stoppers $20,000 to offer as a potential reward for information in the case. By 2016, Lakewood decided to shift that supplemental reward into a charitable donation to Crime Stoppers of Houston in support of its ongoing public safety work in Houston and beyond. On Friday, as more pieces of this case came together, Crime Stoppers CEO Rania Mankarious discussed the possibility of the organization gifting $20,000, the amount originally given to Crime Stoppers by Lakewood, to the "Good Samaritan" plumber who they say made the discovery and turned in the money. On Tuesday, Mankarious received the approval to move forward with the gift. "Crime Stoppers of Houston is a public safety organization that thrives on the public safety of all communities. We believe that it takes all of us, working together, to keep Houston safe and thriving. In 2014, Lakewood Church gave us $20,000 to work on this case. In 2016, they chose to gift us those funds for operations. Today, we are gifting that same about of money to this Good Samaritan and wishing he and his family a wonderful holiday season," said Mankarious. The church is not commenting further, but previously said they are cooperating with the theft investigation. Houston police say the cash, checks and money orders were inventoried and then left at Lakewood. The man who made this all public is known only as Justin, a plumber. Back in 2014, the church released a statement in part saying, "The funds were fully insured, and we are working with our insurance company to restore the stolen funds to the church." kabc logo
RJ, they did not know the difference between good and evil until they ate the fruit. By your mythology, they were set up to “sin” from day one. The only evil in Genesis was God.
Mikael: “Forrest, I want to applaud you for admitting you were wrong. That’s not easy to do. Most atheists would never do that.” Then, Mikael doesn’t admit that he was wrong about the gospels getting less outrageous, and also doesn’t admit he was wrong about Mary being 15 or 16, but instead, says he doesn’t trust those sources. Mikael, you lack lots of self-awareness. Also, Mikael: “You can’t bowl a 10 every day.” Mikael, I would say you did bowl a 10, considering a perfect bowling score is 300.
I mean, if Eve is to be expected to know better despite zero reasons to, it's not like the serpent lied either, then Almighty 'shit, didn't expect that' God, could not possibly be blameless here. Yet people tie themselves into knots to justify child trafficking, and blame it on newborns eating tasty fruit from the tree that God put in the garden with them, so yeah, now we have babies starving to death, and children tortured by traffickers. Totally, _not_ the creator of that sick sht's fault. It's the naive fruit eaters that done it; it's out of the all knowing, all loving, all powerful creator's hands, you see.. fruit, eat, something something, child torture..
As my father would say to his bishop cousin "why don't you tell your god to pay for his own advertisements and stop asking money from the poor"
The key question that is as old as God itself...
At least Jesus paid like 14 million dollars to advertise in the Superbowl. Imagine how much good, millions of dollars could do for community's
@@mactallica9293 Jesus did?
Or Jesus' followers?
@@KantilvihAnd the distinction would be what? Kinda peculiar they both always seem to want the exact same things.
It's a bad idea to let your child, sibling, spouse or parent ever be alone with a cleric at church.
Aye! This sounds scarry
I don't know that this really applies to only the church. Short of a vetted babysitter, I'm not sure why a child is being left with anyone you don't absolutely trust. I wouldn't leave my child alone with a teacher, a clergy member, certain family members, etc. If its a group thing, like a youth group where there will be other kids and multiple sets of adults, the risk of abuse goes down, but one on one should be a no no.
@@janusgeminus21That’s the thing, clergy people ARE often “absolutely trusted.”
@@janusgeminus21 Do you lack an understanding of the context of the question of the week?
@@xmillion1704 was that the question? Forrest didn't ask the question until we were 45 minutes into the video and I saw your comment during the first call. If you're response was to the question, my bad.
As an antitheist, thank you Seth! Sometimes I need a kick in the butt to remember that kindness and understanding needs to remain part of my arsenal.
The funny thing about that typo is that it makes it sound like you think you should not be kind or understanding.
@@Leith_Crowther doh!
RJ: if evolution is real, spiders should have wings because their lives would be easier.
Also RJ: I believe spiders were created by an omniscient, omnipotent God.
Why didn't that god create spiders with wings?
Maybe because a god would know that spiders with wings wouldn't be good for other lifeforms. But evolution wouldn't care about other lifeforms, it would only "care" about what genes produce a reproductive advantage.
Why don't we have wings? Evidently angels do?
If you are an uneducated primitive, magic is an explanation for everything. Creationists need smaller egos and to go to school.
Something something fall of man also very convenient for God to make spiders with fangs that could pierce and suck out dry its preys even before Adam and eve at an apple and cursed them lmao
Wouldn’t be fair to us humans, duh!
I couldn't understand why RJ couldn't understand the explanations that Forrest and Armen were giving, it was so clearly explained and then.... Oh. God. He's not going to be rational at all...
“That’s not salvation, that’s extortion.” This may be my new, favorite quote.
Yes, I like that!
Leave to Seth to make another excellent point.
Obtaining something, through force or threats. is the definition, but he calls it "salvation". Christians seem to learn only "when" to use words, instead of what they actually mean. Gr8! Peace ☮💜Love
Seth, Armin, and Forrest, WOW, and a 3 hour episode it's like the all star version of AXP
you mean "all-star" or you really mean "all start"? lol
I love the three host shows, it really is like a panel with a caller. And the long episodes are the best because they have the time to have better discussions (or at least more of them.)
this was a great episode, indeed.
Great hosts, but we know of the great hosts of the past and will never forget.
It was like what I would imagine heaven would be like haha
Time stamps for the callers during this three hour long episode!:
21:16 Adam - Wants to talk about the design argument.
1:07:36 RJ - If evolution's real, why haven't spiders developed wings?
1:55:41 Mikael - Wants to talk about atheists that keep insisting that Jesus is an apocalyptic preacher.
Bless you sir may God bless your soul (satire but honestly thanks)
Thank you so much for doing this! I know it takes time and patience, and I appreciate your courtesy.
When there are no time stamps on these episodes and nobody posts them in the comments I now move on to watch something else. My attention span is unpredictable and sometimes VERY limited, so I do not waste my time I'm disinterested in a call or in the discussion between calls.
3 hosts is a lot.
3 callers isn't.
Each host deserved their own entire hour for sure! ❤
The mental gymnastics RJ was doing was impressive!
It's a little scary that he's allowed to have children.
A little bit of Jorden Peterson. Isn't he??
Cliff swallows evolved in real time, before our eyes. All in order to maintain a food source. I'm surprised nobody makes this argument.
@@MrCanis4- I doubt that he would treat his child in the ways of his god that he defended on the call. But he would likely teach his child to believe in his god and that it's okay for his god to do those things.
Possibly the best trio on AXP ever. I love this combination of hosts and the triumvirate's banter is 100% pure gold.
Armin is amazing. I love the way he lays out the logical process of defining "mind" and defining god into existence. Seth and Forrest are great too. You guys are so patient, I just don't know how you do it.
Because they are Saints. They are atheist Saints, even though that's not how that works.
@@jakesmith5278 I will have to update my Shrine to Atheism
Ya his memory and recall is crazy accurate
Armin smashed it today, with the ' jesus was not an apocalyptic preacher' call.
Armin was on fire on this one. The level of zen displayed this call was BIBLICAL
So Armin Zenned...Biblically?
With RJ - Seth is the type of voice (literally and figuratively) that disarms such a caller and allows a glint of light in past the barriers.
I wish this particular episode had zero calls. I could listen to these three bad asses talk to each other all day. Great minds !!
What an amazing point Armin made about the idea of Jesus not even being comparable to the historical man
If there was a historical person it was based on, there is no information outside the Bible.
It's highly questionable if there even was a Jesus at all!
This is why I have no problem calling him what he is: a fictional character.
People will respond "but there is a historical basis that really lived!" while ignoring the fact that almost nobody worships him because of the potential historical basis,they worship the magic guy who does magic and died and came back to life because magic. You can't have it both ways.
@@IllustriousCrocoduck Thing is I think it generally doesn't matter whether he did or didn't exist. Saying that a man called Jesus existed is one of those unremarkable claims that probably shouldn't require evidence, and I feel that even bothering to push back on this claim just hinders the conversation/debate from progressing onto what does matter, I.e. whether he was divine.
@@danoliver3053 maybe I should clarify because I think we are saying the same thing.
I think it is irrelevant if there was a historical basis, even if his name was Jesus. I don't care one iota.
All I care about is if someone says he did magic and resurrected, they are factually incorrect- that is impossible and didn't happen, and a person claiming otherwise has to try to justify that, which they can't.
That's all I care about. Make the person try to defend their belief, and in doing so, confront the OBVIOUS issues. Too few believers actually do this. They are blind to the clear impossibilities.
This was the best episode of AXP I've seen in years. Well done, gentlemen. Excellent work. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
you should take a look at some of the early episodes,
I agree with both of you..
@@petermeichan3160 lol While you seem to adopt a somewhat oppositional tone, the specific verbiage you exclaim is not mutually exclusive of the OP's observation. In fact, the most rational interpretation of the OP's comment is that they HAVE viewed early episodes, AND favorably.
The chemistry with this team just works
I WISH I COULD SUPERCHAT TO SAY THESE ARE MY THREE FAVORITE HOSTS PLZ HAVE THEM ON AGAIN TOGETHER
This is possibly my favorite Atheist Experience of all time! Having the 3 best, yet diverse atheist minds together on the show…Wow!!! Thanks for giving us such a rich, high quality show! A biologist, former Christian, and former Muslim cover all of the major bases. And that doesn’t even cover the amazing personalities of you all! Thanks sooo much for giving this to us. 😃
To the guy asking why spiders don't have wings... Pretty sure they developed their webs to be really good at catching winged insects and other bugs. Having wings would possibly increase the risk of getting caught in your own web.
It's also very difficult for a flying creature to catch another flying creature in mid air. Setting up a trap, aka web, is a better strategy.
But surely god could create wings of teflon, or something much much better than that... ?
Spiders can use their webs to fly, so wings would be redundant.
@@beefair9492 yes this was gone over in the video. I was just offering another reason that wasn't offered up.
If evolution was real. Spiders would have developed electric fly swatters for these insects.
Checkmate
Loved Armin's point - If you have no restrictions in how you expand your definition of the terms (e.g. mind), you can fit any pet deity into your beliefs that you like.
At the end. It was 1980 before married women could accrue credit in their own name. Credit bureaus would only count credit in the man's name whether or not he worked and paid the bills. OB/GYN doctors kept their records in the husband's name only even though the woman was the client/patient. 1980 folks. It was almost impossible for divorced women to get credit even after that.
Circa 1950, my grandmother needed surgery. My asshole grandfather didn't believe her that she was in pain, and also didn't believe the doctors that she had a real medical problem. In those days, a married woman couldn't get any kind of surgery without her husband's signature on the consent form, and he wouldn't give it. A non-married woman could sign her own consent, at least where she was getting the surgery, so she divorced him. It was undoubtedly the best thing she ever did in her life, because she then got to live her own life.
@@mirandarensberger6919 Women were basically considered property of their husbands. I remember hearing once as a kid in the 1950s a woman say that if she left her husband, he would just get the police to bring her back. She was serious.
Until the 1970's, marital r@pe was legal in the U.S. I remember having a discussion about this with a male coworker, in about 1980, when it was still legal in many states. He thought it wasn't r@pe, because it was a wife's duty to be available to her husband. I thought that was outrageous, but it was a common belief. The last states to criminalize marital r@pe were Oklahoma and North Carolina, in 1993. Still, in some places, it isn't treated the same as other r@pes, which are often not taken very seriously, either.
@@ottomaddoxx5360 It was after that in the late 1970s that I applied for a Master Card (was called a Master Charge then) with a $300 credit limit. I got turned down by the bank so I went there and asked why. I was told the reason was I was divorced and if I got pregnant, I might not be able to pay the bill. They presumed divorced women were too promiscuous. I banged my fist on the guy’s desk and told him very sternly, “That’s not a good enough reason and I expected a better one or my card.” He left for a few minutes and returned to tell me I would have my card in 3 days. We women still had to fight for recognition as fully equal. Still do.
I went to the doctor, early 80s, as a young teen with severe endometriosis. I was given the name of some religious book written on a prescription pad. I was so embarrassed it took another 18 years of suffering before I was properly diagnosed and had surgery
That first 15 mins is the ultimate reason to have different hosts. And they are great. We need all these views because one of them is the one that will get through to someone at some time.
Thanks for providing access to resources like these thinkers.
Xtian: My god designed everything perfectly.
Atheist: Why is this part of nature SO SH1T DESIGN ?
Xtian : Because Adam ate the apple.
LOLZ
Because people made it that way. 😉
Adam is the creator
Do they call the lump in our throat an "Adam's apple" to imply that we all took a bite from Adam's forbidden apple? 🤔
Perfect response to this kind of thinking: "how do you not know that a God didn't originally design everything to be crappy, and the apple suddenly made everything better?"
My response would be "And who designed what would be the outcome of Adam and Eve eating the fruit?"
I love that Armin opened this knowledge mindbomb of shit and while Seth is having something between existential crisis and "let me read EVERYTHING about this", Forrest is just hammering it down with the puns.
Oh.
Rj: "just because you don't think it is reasonsble doesn’t mean it isn't true"
Rj, "evolution isn't real because I find non-winged spiders unreasonable"
RJ was beyond dense
at 15:04 Armin very eloquently makes his excellent point: "they use faith and revelation as a methodology to come to the truth" ... "a flawed methodology to come up with their conclusions"
Giving God a pass on morality, is like a battered woman that won't leave her husband.
Stockholm Syndrome
Darkmatter 2525 says that. God is an abuser
Is this what you blame the victim?
@@theflaggedyoutuberii4311 No. I am talking about you are trying to get a battered woman to quit making excuses for how their husband/bf treats them. The women are taking the blame on themselves instead of admitting that the man in their life is wrong to treat them bad. God is the abuser.
@leekestner1554 So, is it the victim's fault for making excuses? If so, you're blaming the victim.
Adam was done right after Forrest's first explanation. Then it was just Adam scrambling. After Armin talked to him about the meanings words he was totally lost. Then when Forrest came back, Adam's personal incredulity and circular pre-suppositions dissipated everything he came in with.
I think he was done not two sentences into reading his script, and his entire syllogism was predicated on false premises to begin with, so valid logic or not, his conclusion could have only been invalid, and that before he even got to the second premise!
@@Bob-of-Zoid Oh ya, those theist callers and their dreaded scripts.
And because they have been led into believing these horrendously fallacious beliefs because they were--and remain incapable of identifying horrendous logic, their scripts just naturally are filled with nothing other than horrendously flawed logic.
@@casparuskruger4807 It's only every believer in absurd BS defending their BS, from the religiose over the flat earthers to the more scientifically informed pseudo-scientists looking at making a killing with it, all mutilate philosophy to have the same weight as scientific inquiry, and when cornered even go as far as saying "But science relies on philosophy" and pretend that just because that is true, that it means they are coming up with scientific facts, laws, and theories based on pure philosophical mental acrobatics which couldn't be further from the truth! That's just not how it works, it's not how any of this works!
Oh, and may I add they reject it when you call their supposed "Science", that was not conducted in a lab, has no peer reviewed publications, or none being taken seriously, no math behind it... and pretty much literally pulled out of their ass, and call it mere philosophical masturbation, because they see their non methodology as a valid and reasonable basis to continue arguing that their own way of doing it all wrong is what's wrong with science!🥵 It makes my brain hurt!!🤕
@@casparuskruger4807 I hope you aren’t actually being serious
@@Aryan-qv5qk I am being serious. Why wouldn't I be?
Armin Navabi is a breath of fresh air and SO handsome
There was actually a study done on "holy water" in churches that people dip into, and it was found to contain E Coli in spades. So, Armin is absolutely right. Nasty stuff.
As a child I used to think the rancid smell in many churches came from the stagnant "holy" water... it always looked like it could and should stink up such a huge building😂
@@TigreModerata I was raised Southern Baptist so we didn't believe in holy water bs anyway. The baptismal tank people got dunked in was thankfully emptied and cleaned after each use. I do remember knowing when we were going to do the "last supper" thing because the whole church smelled like Welch's grape juice. We didn't do naughty things like wine you know. LOL And no one bothered with blessing anything. It just got passed around in tiny little glasses and broken up regular crackers on a tray.
@@rhondah1587 We had individual shot glasses of grape juice, so that was fine. But we also had whole loaves of bread, which everyone just ripped a hunk off of.
@@mirandarensberger6919 Oh, that's one I've never heard of. Wonder if all those fingers had been washed after a potty visit.
@@rhondah1587 The Bible says bread, so you'd better believe we used bread, lol. At least we only did it four times a year. Catholics do communion weekly. So what I'm getting here is that Christianity develops your immune system, but Catholicism does it more strenuously than many Protestant churches. 🤢
Wow! Atheist Jesus blessed us with a most awesome 3 hour show hosted by some very astute gentlemen, today! (It's like the "Gilligan's Island" of anti-apologetics.)
Ahmed and Jeremy were excellent hosts.
@@mirandarensberger6919 lol Indeed, and coincidentally, remarkably similar in appearance to two of my favorite hosts who've appeared previously! (Full disclosure, I don't recall any show ever being (co)hosted by anyone whom I would not rate as one of my favorites.)
@@mirandarensberger6919Jeremy? Ahmed, Forrest and Seth?
@@jeanettekeatinge2072did you watch the call with Mikael from GA?
Glob blessed us.
I’ve just started watching but I just had to say, wow, what a trio! Love these three guys! Smart guys!
It's a bad idea to go anywhere near the holy water at church. Learned that from this week's show!
Indeed.
"A recent study suggests holy water could be harmful to your health, as much of it contains fecal matter. Some of the water studied contained up to 62 million fecal bacteria in every milliliter of holy water. For comparison, British tap water legally cannot have more than 100 bacteria per milliliter."
I suppose an optimistic apologist could say "It could be worse. Our holy water only contains 620,000 times the amount of poop germs legally allotted to our drinking water."
For anyone looking for the question of the week segment, last week's answers are at 54:45 and this week's question is at 55:49. Jeremy is an outstanding host, and we love him.
We Love Ahmed just as much as Jeremy
Who?
This was an awesome show having you three on together.
Really enjoyed watching Ahmed, Jeremy, and that other guy. Great show as always
Always nice to read a comment from Ye Venereal Dork. 😉👌
This is a really solid first attempt at humor.
These are my three favorites together. What a treat.
Fantastic show guys!
The holy trinity of atheist hosts 🥰
Keep up the great work AXP
Peace Love Empathy From Australia.
I responded to Forrest's joke about the hole from which Holy water comes from by exclaiming "Holy shit"! Well, actually, yes.
Mikael: Thanks for admitting you were wrong, that's admirable.
Forrest/Armin: Here's where you're wrong about a ton of stuff
Mikael: Oh, I'M not wrong.
Mikael is an arrogant douche bag who just wants to say "Gotcha!"
What you want me to return the favor by lying.😂.
In the story clod says it will kill them if they eat from the tree of knowledge. The snake tells them clod won"t kill them. They eat the fruit but clod punishes them but doesn't kill them. Clod lied and the snake told the truth. The snake gets punished for telling the truth. The humans get punished for obtaining knowledge. The moral is what? Do what you are told and don"t seek to learn.
Apple are bad
The KJV pointedly depicts god promising that, " . . . in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
The apologists' inevitable response is a lot of hand-waving hemming and hawing with, "Well, god didn't actually mean they'd drop dead ON THAT VERY DAY exactly, because sometimes the bible authors used the term "day" to denote some other time frame completely, either in their ineffable wisdom or according to god's explicit dictation or somesuch, don't you know? See, what you need to understand is, that what god actually meant is that starting on that day GOING FORWARD, man would commence the process that would inevitably conclude with the cessation of his life on some undefined day in the far future, so that his earthly demise only really exists in this context as some divinely vague eventuality."
So, it's more like "the long slow goodbye smite of god", such that it could almost seem to be virtually unrelated to any long forgotten act of biting into some random piece of fruit that just happened to occur several centuries earlier.
@@xmillion1704 Which is extra funny, because the six days creation were definitely literal days to them, but suddenly they can allow the text not to mean what it says if the alternative is god is a liar.
@@mirandarensberger6919 Precisely!
Animal rights are human rights because humans are animals too 😬
Speak for yourself as a person of color. I'm not an animal.
🤩 love the freethought trinity...the machine gun, machine gun, squirt gun 😆
Also, it's a bad idea at church to ask if the body of christ is gluten free.
As a physics professor that's a prior Marine, RJ is why I don't tell anyone I was in the military especially as infantry. It's embarrassing. So much so I renounced my citizenship and moved all across the world.
The USA is a very interesting goldfish bowl. Asimov and Zappa both recognised the endemic problem with enforced superstitious ignorance.
@@JimCastleberryjimbo once again shows his idea of land of the free shouldn't actually be free.
@@JimCastleberryat least op had the courage to serve his country, you just hide behind your keyboard
Cluck cluck little chicken
@@JimCastleberryyou've told American atheists yo get out of your country on several occasions. Loser
@@JimCastleberryoh yes I forgot, you claim to have fought the Nazis,😅😅😅😅 but you called them godliness left wing socialists😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅.
Stolen valour is a crime
I can’t believe this amazing panel!!!! I’m just now cracking this episode and I’m so pumped!
I find myself wondering, if it would be so beneficial for spiders to evolve wings, why didn't this intelligent designer give them wings?
Right? That was my thought, exactly, but not stopping there, I wondered, why doesn't every creature, including humans, have wings to fly, then?
It wouldn't be very beneficial to be a spider and get your wings tangled up in your own web.
Rocket powered would be awesome.
@@jameswest8280 lol Well, our asses do seem to be perfectly positioned to serve as jet exhausts, so . . .
@@holgerlubotzki3469 Just make the wings web-proof, or indeed, the webs wing-proof.
“Wearing the pain as a costume.” Brilliant.
It's a bad idea to try to figure out which hole the Hole-y Water comes from. You probably won't like the answer.
It comes straight from Jesus' butticus holimus.
I love it when Ahmed and Jeremy host this show.
I think Armin makes great points. It's so good to see him on TAE.
Agree!
1:34:32 An almost verbatim transcription between Forrest and RJ: Forrest-“Let’s SAY your god is real, he’s evil.” RJ-“So since he didn’t do what you what you wanted him to do, he can’t be real?”
One of the BEST episodes yet! Thank you so much to the hosts!
This was such a brilliant episode. Armin's razor sharp logic, Forrest's biological knowledge and well-spoken wit, and Seth's empathetic viewpoint and experience on the ground with what theists actually believe. This combination allows for the best responses and counter arguments to basically anything the callers can throw at them.
I just really didn't expect r*pe apologia from Mikael at the end there....that was really gross and he is a very deluded and indoctrinated individual. I do not like that man at all. Even if she said "ok", that's still coercion and sexual assault. What, is she gonna say no to god and his messenger? Absolutely disgusting, and actually a great example of how even when "consent" is given, these power imbalances can still lead to r*pe. Sorry, but it made me sick to my actual stomach when that guy told Forrest "thanks for acknowledging that you were wrong" when he will not acknowledge that he is apologizing for actual atrocities, and will now walk away more confident that he's right. It's a joke to him. I'm glad he will never have to experience anything like that. I can't get out of my head how awful and immoral some Christians can be under the guise of peace and caring and forgiveness. It's like Forrest always says, and it makes perfect sense... "Jesus loves you" is an awful, mean, evil and horrible phrase because of what it implies.
When in church, never shout the score of the football game you're listening to on your phone. The people around you might be listening to different games while recording your game to watch later.
Truly sound advice. The only caveat I can conceive, being, if you bet against the pastor's team and your team's winning and you want to fuck with him mid-sermon, lording over him, so to speak.
Armin and Forrest are great as hosts... ofc Seth is great too
This was the most I laughed in a long time. I think Seth was traumatized by Armin's statement of fact about holy water.
Also, "how about we talk another 20 minutes about Forrest's name..." 😂🤣😄👍
Three minutes prior: "what Jeremy brought up..."
Now: "I wouldn't want to address you the wrong way, should I call you Forrest or Mr. Forrest?"
Like dude, if you want to act that way at least be consistent.
This one was stellar. That Help Me sticker was awesome. Please do this again and soon.
Adam, take your "model" and submit it. You'll need to give good arguments for redefining certain terms, like really robust examples and arguments outside of your syllogism, for why your definition should be the new objective ones. Good luck!
I remember reading the Bible so I could understand the god I loved better and every few chapters was a kick in the guts. I love how Seth makes us think of holding this god to our own moral standard.
To use the baby on the keyboard metaphor, father figure gives the baby a choice between a black button and a lit-up red button and the punishes EVERYTHING for the baby choosing the red button.
This was a great group. I hope they can host more shows together in the future.
Mikael-GA needs to take up his question with Bart Erhman himself. We have several places in the NT where the Jeebus character says he will be right back and those standing before him will not die before he comes back and they assumed that when he did come back, the world as they knew it would end and they would have a new earth where he would rule over after destroying all the unbelievers and have defeated the "dark forces." LOL
Edit: Sermon on the Mount: Give no thought for the morrow. (If that's not apocalyptic, what does Mikael think is?)
What when he appears on the show I'll definitely take it up with him.
Teeny tiny point, but: Lepidoptera (moths and butterflies) are 90% wing. They’re /super/ light and /super/ small. Their cost for being able to fly is that they are super easy prey that are easy to swallow; but they’re fast. Their flight patterns are evasive and their endurance is pretty spectacular. But again, flight costs them something.
They also need a larva stage dedicated to feeding and they can't live past a few weeks in their flying form
One of the best episodes ever!!
I love this unholy trinity! This is my first time hearing Armin, and he's awesome
RJ: If he made Adam and Eve ignorant of evil, then they didn't make a choice.
If you have no experience with consequencea and repurcussions, then you don't know what even doing something when someone tells you not to.
And he made us this way and he knows that he made us this way.
It's not just bad planning, if he's gonna punish all of us after them, it's a morally bad thing to do.
Reprehensible, dude.
This is the most enjoyable episode I have watched so far: Seth+Forrest+Armin is a contagious combination...
RJ 'there are a quadrillion spiders'. Also spiders aren't 'sufficiently evolved', how can he not see the contradiction there?
P.S that was probably his highlight.
RJ smokes a lot
His brain isn't at 100%
There's lots of things he can't see
Great show. Thank you guys!
I don't think that mosquitoes need rights, I am being eaten as we speak. I am being drank.
Well, at least your straw man doesn't need to worry about mosquito bites.
Reminds me of a hitchhikers guide quote.
"Its unpleasant. Like being drunk."
"Being drunk is rather pleasurable."
"Not from the water's perspective."
A
@@xmillion1704op talking about drinking. Fallacy you add is STRAW man... 😅😂
@@xmillion1704 I understand words just fine, thanks. But over and above actual meaning is funny associative meaning.
Drinking. Straws.
Funny.
Oh, never mind.
Also, I didn't disagree or disparage. I just pointed at the association within those 2 elements.
You either understood that or didn't. And replied with guns blazing.
Good job.
@@brucebaker810 My bad. I was in a bit of a mood because of something else and your cleverness, which I greatly appreciate, flew right over my head. Nicely played, sir.
(It seemed you were accusing me of a straw man.)
Great demonstration of literary theory I think by Mr. Navari. I hope to hear more in the future. Thanks.
Caller RJ from CO. Says that death was not a thing before "sin". Well buddy, god made us to die. How do I know this? Genesis 3:22-24
Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”- therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden. In other words, man would live forever ONLY if thy had access to the tree of life. This means that man was mortal. Also god cast them out the garden because man became like god. It would be nice if Christians would read their own book instead of the cherry picked apologetics that their pastors tell them on Sunday.
This whole show is great. These three, this team, just great. Of course everyone involved in the production, also great.
It's a bad idea to stay awake at church.
Although upon further reflection, it's also a bad idea to fall asleep around some of those people.
🤣🤣🤣
One of the top 20😂 best episodes pxp. From a 15+ year viewer of this movement. Thanks for the continued recipe for the CURE of religious “cancer” 💃💃
Dont come tell me the holy trinity doesn't exist : its name is ArminSeth&Forrest
SFA?
I fell asleep while listening to the Mikael part of this episode (it was very late at night), and had a dream that Forrest and Armin were running a reality show to cast a production of Jesus Christ Superstar, and so much of the dialogue from this part worked in the dream.
Parachute spiders are a thing. I apologise if you didn't want to know that.
Forresst! You laughing at Seth's "garden variety" joke had me in conniptions.
Never let up when you have them on the run and defensive. Bcuz they may be nice now, but if they get their power back like they are trying to do they will take us back to the dark ages.
Forrest's rant at 1.28.35 onwards is just absolutely beautiful.
You can't even say the word "Superbowl" on a podcast without worrying about copyright infringement? That's absurd.
It can take the channel days to have a strike against a false accusation of copyright infringement removed.
And there are people desperate to close the channel down
You gentlemen are able to express all the thoughts that are turning around in my head.
Thank you doing this show.
Hey RJ: SPIDERS ARE NOT INSECTS!
This was such a good. Show
Mikael (2:16:48): Most scholars who study the New Testament are employed by organisations which require the signing of a statement of faith. One's conclusions mean nothing if one has promised in advance to reach them, and if one's paycheck depends on reaching those conclusions.
[[[Citation needed.]]]
@@theflaggedyoutuberii4311 Publicly available information. Google the name of the organisation (e,g, Answers in Genesis, Biola University) + statement of faith. Then you can see if the 'scholar' in question is legally bound to say that the Bible is true.
Correct. Their statements are necessarily compromised and untrustworthy.
This might just be my new favorite episode of the axp. I was laughing from start to finish plus learned some cool shit... awesome job guys...
Hope RJ listens back to his call. He got top notch education from 3 awesome dudes. Great show guys. Thanks crew. 👏👏👏
"...But He loves you" that's what first came into my mind when I saw forest speaking 3:11
Seth tried really well with RJ, but RJ is too immersed in his own indoctrination and confirmation bias to hear the argument.
OMG my favourite hosts together AND I'm 100% with Armin!! Offer no ideological quarter!
Omg, Forrests holy water comment🤣And then Seth: Goodnight😂
@@GodcodeX77 Yes. I dont understand what your question has to do with my comment, but I support a womans right to have an abortion with my whole being.
@@GodcodeX77still spouting your anti biblical rants again abortion? Silly delusionist
Ah, my favourite hosts, Jeremy and Ahmed. Finally.
It’s a bad idea to ask where your tithing money is specifically going and what it’s going to be used for.
Pastor Joel Osteen Lakewood Church Houston's megachurch burglarized of $600K
Thieves took $200K in cash and $400K in checks from safe. A church employee and an off-duty sheriff's deputy working security discovered the money was missing. The cash, checks and envelopes containing written credit card information, and it is limited only to those funds contributed in the church services on Saturday, March 8 and Sunday, March 9, 2014
7 years later Plumber discovers money, checks in wall of Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Church years after $600K burglary
The 500 envelopes full of cash and checks were found behind a loose toilet as workers moved insulation out of the wall Nov. 10, 2021.
Plumber who found money stashed in Joel Osteen's church gets $20K reward from Crime Stoppers
By Miya Shay KTRK 7 abc
Tuesday, December 7, 2021
At the time of the theft, Lakewood Church gave Crime Stoppers $20,000 to offer as a potential reward for information in the case. By 2016, Lakewood decided to shift that supplemental reward into a charitable donation to Crime Stoppers of Houston in support of its ongoing public safety work in Houston and beyond.
On Friday, as more pieces of this case came together, Crime Stoppers CEO Rania Mankarious discussed the possibility of the organization gifting $20,000, the amount originally given to Crime Stoppers by Lakewood, to the "Good Samaritan" plumber who they say made the discovery and turned in the money. On Tuesday, Mankarious received the approval to move forward with the gift.
"Crime Stoppers of Houston is a public safety organization that thrives on the public safety of all communities. We believe that it takes all of us, working together, to keep Houston safe and thriving. In 2014, Lakewood Church gave us $20,000 to work on this case. In 2016, they chose to gift us those funds for operations. Today, we are gifting that same about of money to this Good Samaritan and wishing he and his family a wonderful holiday season," said Mankarious.
The church is not commenting further, but previously said they are cooperating with the theft investigation.
Houston police say the cash, checks and money orders were inventoried and then left at Lakewood. The man who made this all public is known only as Justin, a plumber.
Back in 2014, the church released a statement in part saying, "The funds were fully insured, and we are working with our insurance company to restore the stolen funds to the church."
kabc logo
It might as well go to adding shit to the holy water.
This lineup might have the best way of breaking things down in a digestiblem gentle way for people. Prime choices. 👌
RJ, they did not know the difference between good and evil until they ate the fruit. By your mythology, they were set up to “sin” from day one. The only evil in Genesis was God.
Exactly what I keep saying. They never stood a chance from the start and God knew it would happen all the time.
Mikael: “Forrest, I want to applaud you for admitting you were wrong. That’s not easy to do. Most atheists would never do that.”
Then, Mikael doesn’t admit that he was wrong about the gospels getting less outrageous, and also doesn’t admit he was wrong about Mary being 15 or 16, but instead, says he doesn’t trust those sources. Mikael, you lack lots of self-awareness.
Also, Mikael: “You can’t bowl a 10 every day.” Mikael, I would say you did bowl a 10, considering a perfect bowling score is 300.
Amazing show tonight 🎉
How did Eve know what was right and wrong prior to eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Hello???
I mean, if Eve is to be expected to know better despite zero reasons to, it's not like the serpent lied either, then Almighty 'shit, didn't expect that' God, could not possibly be blameless here.
Yet people tie themselves into knots to justify child trafficking, and blame it on newborns eating tasty fruit from the tree that God put in the garden with them, so yeah, now we have babies starving to death, and children tortured by traffickers.
Totally, _not_ the creator of that sick sht's fault. It's the naive fruit eaters that done it; it's out of the all knowing, all loving, all powerful creator's hands, you see.. fruit, eat, something something, child torture..