That doesn't mean people are totally depraved. Calvinism is the totally depraved ravings of a evil man. Calvin had a man burned at the stake and told his followers to bring green wood to make the man suffer more. He lived for an hour while being slowly roasting. Calvin was totally depraved for his evil doctrine, for turning the message of a loving God into a Satanic brute.
The doctrine of Total Depravity isn't simply that people are born with a tendency to sin. Alana and Jordan would both affirm that. The doctrine of Total Depravity insists that people are born unable and unwilling to believe the gospel and can only do so once regenerated. Calvinists use passages that talk about wicked, hardened people, such as in the time of Noah, to prove that no one can believe until they are regenerated. Alana's point is simple - the passages actually don't say that.
@@OnTheRogersJourney Yes, but the Bible does say that. People who aren't saved are sinful, evil. You and I included until we receive the gift of salvation from God alone. Based on NOTHING that we did ourselves. All the Reformers rightly taught us this much, not just Calvin.
@user-lh3uk6by3i The Bible doesn't say that we are depraved, it says that we are lost: Luke 19:10 King James Version 10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. Isaiah 53:6 King James Version 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Yes, we are all born in sin, sinful flesh and because we serve the flesh, Romans 6, we become trangressers in need of a Savior, for which Jesus died on the cross.
Every believer chose God, even while they still sin. There is not one person who chose God, who didn't still chose sin. Thus, this "chose sin over God" has nothing to do with salvation. You're committing a fallacy, and why? To say God's a narcissistic crybully?
John 6:44-51 KJV No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. This explains that God brings you to Jesus first you don't just choose to believe not a fallacy i don't know were you get that from
@@theodorerobert6774 Not at all. God regenerated and brought us out of the pit, from darkness into His marvellous light. Not of our will but God's will.
Then stop ignoring plain readings of scripture that say God wants all to be saved [is he double minded?] that Jesus would have gathered Jerusalem to himself but they were not willing [is Jesus upset at people that he chose by his own will to not believe him?] Etc etc etc.@@2timothy23
@@2timothy23 Does or does it not say "when I am lifted up I will draw all men to myself? Obviously because the Son of God was existing as a human while on earth he could not call all men to Himself. But after he was resurrected and returned to His Father, he had the power and authority from the Father to call all men to himself.
“None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” 13 “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” 14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” 15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 in their paths are ruin and misery, 17 and the way of peace they have not known.” 18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” 19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being[c] will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. Romans 3:11-20
Amen. I too reject the notion of Total Depravity/ Inability. I'm glad you cited this passage. It is a sovereign God who chose the means of accessing His grace be faith. The Bible says that God chose to save those that believe. It does not say that God makes believe those whom He regenerates. Thanks for bringing up this passage.
@@davidvanwye8108 Genesis 3:6, Isaiah 4:6, I could go on and on. The entire Bible teaches that only God is holy and men are born with sin. No, I don't suspect any of this is enough for you. I guess a better question would be: do you know how to read the Bible and have you read it?
If we're dead in our sins, as you weirdo cultists add "like Lazarus"(despite the scriptures not saying this), then why does God tell you to choose anything? If you cannot choose then God lies to us.
Original sin ≠ total depravity we by definition of being the image of god cannot be totally depraved as original sin doesn’t change our essence it corrupts it; which is why we have a bodily resurrection and not reincarnation
@@tomtemple69 God can open the door for us, but we have to walk through. That's not saying you come to the kingdom without Christ, like you can get into heaven with or without Christ. But God gave us the dignity of free will for a reason. He does not rape our will.
@Scribeintheink John 3:20, 27, 32 ²⁰For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, so that his deeds will not be exposed. ²⁷John replied, “A person can receive not even one thing unless it has been given to him from heaven. ³²What He has seen and heard, of this He testifies; and no one accepts His testimony.
@tomtemple69 John 6:44 says, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." I don't understand how Jesus could be a liar here, we cannot come to Him by our own will.
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." (Romans 3.10-12) "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." (Psalm 51.5) "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies." (Psalm 58.3) There's a lot more, shall I continue?
Romans 3:9-13 (NASB95): all under sin; 10 as it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one; 11 There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; 12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one.” 13 “Their throat is an open grave,
I'm uninterested to debate, peace. however want to be sure you realize that often time people quoted Paul's saying above don't realize where it is from Psalm: There they are in great fear, For God is with the generation of the righteous. (Psalms 14:5 NKJV) So it begs the question why David or God considered the existence of righteous men at that time. Paul isn't just saying none are righteous, he simply means without believing Jesus can't be righteous for those law abiding Jews
@@swu11 I think you and I would likely have agreement in regards to the point that Paul is making in Romans 3. Here is his point: Romans 3:19 (NASB95): Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; Peace to you as well.
100909% Romans 5:15-17 ESV But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. [16] And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. [17] For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2:1-5 ESV And you were dead in the trespasses and sins [2] in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience- [3] among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. [4] But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, [5] even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved-
True, except we aren't born guilty of Adam's sin. Nowhere in the Bible says that, instead it says "all men sin". Ezekiel says clearly In 20:18 that we won't be guilty of our father's sin, therefore we can only be guilty of our own sin, not Adam's. So we suffer the consequences of Adam's sin, that's death, but we only suffer hell out of our OWN sin, not Adam's. Therefore, BABIES ARE NOT HELLBOUND. This isn't hard if you actually read the Bible.
@@SeanWinters Ezekiel 20:18 ESV "And I said to their children in the wilderness, 'Do not walk in the statutes of your fathers, nor keep their rules, nor defile yourselves with their idols. This has nothing to do with inheriting past sins. It is a command to not walk in past behavior. It is a command to not follow in their sins. In fact 20:21 says they did follow their fathers sins regardless. Romans 5:15-17 ESV But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. [16] And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. [17] For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. What does it mean if Many die through one man’s trash pass? Scripture clearly says that sin leads to death. Not our own but the sin of the curse because one man sin causing us all to sin. But if it were about our sins then why doesn’t Paul just say our sin rather than Adams??? What is the result of one man’s sin? What is the judgment that follows Adams trespass? What is this death that reigns in one trespass??? We don’t sin sending ourselves to hell just because we sin by choice. We are born that way. We are born dead in our trespass unable to turn. Our will cannot believe unless God Draws us. How else would Ephesians 2 read to you? We were born alive in Christ and then through our own actions became dead and then made alive again? I encourage you to read hermeneutically through exegetical context. Scripture will become more relevant and real..
Most of the people who claim they were reformed, expose themselves. When they try to explain reformed theology, you find out they have no idea what they are talking about.
Yes, of course your faith came from God, it's not gonna come from an atheist or some other religion, Jesus gave the great commission, so anything that can convince you that Jesus is the way they truth and the life must come from God.
So the folks in this video are not only denying the doctrines of grace, but the doctrine of original sin as well? You don’t have to be a Calvinist to be my brother in the faith, but you place yourself outside the faith if you deny that we are all born naturally fallen and sinful as the sons and daughters of Adam.
They never said people arent sinful or born with a bent towards sin. They said people are NEVER BORN UNABLE TO BELIEVE GOD. Faith is not a work, no matter how much Pelagius and Calvin try to make it a work. The Bible specifically puts a line between faith and works - they are not the same thing. You are NEVER saved by your works. You are justified through Jesus resurrection after you BELIEVE.
Amen. For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to *all men* *Teaching us* that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, *in this present world* Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of *the great God* and our Saviour *Jesus Christ* {Titus 2:11-12}
Titus was referring to the elect duh 🙄 Titus 1:2-3 Tit 1:1 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth, which accords with godliness, Tit 1:2 in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began Tit 1:3 and at the proper time manifested in his word through the preaching with which I have been entrusted by the command of God our Savior; Tit 1:4 To Titus, my true child in a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
Like Alanna said, when you read Romans & Ephesians in the context that Paul intended rather than with the Calvinistic lenses on, Calvinism is refuted. The key is, however, one must be willing to remove the Calvinistic lenses. One must humble themself and try to understand from a different perspective. One must set aside their pride and pray for the Lord to show them any error in their theology. Not many Calvinists, or non-Calvinists, for that matter, are interested in doing that; searching for God’s Truth in His Word.
Self Determinists believe "Calvinists" must be willing to remove their glasses, only proving the Self Determinists believe "Self" is autonomous, only proving the Total Depravity in the logic of the Self Determinist himself.
If you read the entire Bible, you’ll notice that A) God’s glory is paramount and B) See above Your Pelagian lenses are keeping you from taking the Word of God at face value. His glory, and His glory alone. The deaths of the Egyptian firstborn? His glory. The destruction of the Canaanites? His glory. What possibly makes you believe from Scripture that your “free will” means anything to the Living God?
@@aletheia8054 - How about we simply approach God’s Word with a desire to understand it rightly and be willing to humbling admit when we are shown to be wrong? I believe this is the best way to glorify God in our discussions. I believe this is how Jordan & Alana have presented themselves in this video. I believe we can all learn from their example. Unfortunately, many who claim Christ as their Lord and Savior do not present themselves as humble Christians in the context of YT comment threads. It does damage to the cause of Christ, in my opinion. May He help His people reflect His grace and love even in YT comment threads.
The irony is that when people atack the doctrine of total depravity, by doing that they prof actually the doctrine to be true. Because humans are depraved, they believe that they are not depraved. God bless
So, your point is that God loved you from before the creation of the world and created your neighbor for the express purpose of sending him to hell for all eternity without any opportunity to repent. Friend, i would encourage you to read" The Gnostic Origins of Calvinism" by university of Oxford Dr Ken Wilson. You will discover the early church didn't hold to these beliefs and considered them heresies.
@@sethpawlik The reformers all understood this truths. Has nothing to do whit gnosticism. You have to realize that man is fallen and that he es against God and that he hates God but loves sin. You have to realize that election is essencial, if anyone should go to heaven. And you need to understand that God does not force anyone to go to hell. Man reject God willfuly, and chose hell for themselves. (Even if we believe in predestination).
@@teologiareformata-posttenebrasI can only take your position seriously if you concede you might now be elect. And I think your entire pagan imposter religion is pure undulaterated satanism anyway.
Only God can save. Without God’s grace we are dead in our sins. We need God in order to desire God. Without God’s direct intervention, humans will never choose him on their own because they are sinful and fallen. So they are born into this state. Their hearts are hopelessly sinful. So we aren’t born in a state of neutrality where we can truly choose what is good. We are born into a state of death and sin where we quite literally lack the ability to choose what is good, namely God. Yet, according to Calvinists, we are justly condemned for not choosing God, even though they also teach that we effectively lack the ability to choose him without him electing us. They like to get around this by saying we “willfully” choose sin. But let’s be real here, it’s not a choice at all. A creature born in sin lacks any genuine ability to choose God, like a blind person lacks the ability to see. It would be unjust to condemn a person born blind for not being able to see. You have free will! But you can never actually choose anything but sin. But it’s just for God to damn you because you desire sin. But you can only desire sin by your fallen nature. You’re all damned. You all deserve to be damned. You cannot do what is right. You literally lack the ability to do that. God will choose a few people to redeem amongst the majority of those he damns. He is just to damn you, even though you effectively can’t do anything of your own power to alter your sin nature. Am I getting this right?
Based on quite a few dialogues/debates, my best guess is that many people so strongly oppose Calvinism because they hate the idea that they are not in control. They despise the idea that their faith was predestined. They loathe the concept that God choosing them had anything to do with them coming to Christ for salvation. Simply put, they want to think that they are fully in control of their own eternal destiny. They chose to receive Christ as Savior. And for many, they adamantly hold onto the idea that they can also choose to reject Christ as Savior after previously trusting in Him for salvation. What Calvinism haters do not understand, or refuse to accept, is that God's absolute sovereignty does not negate the fact that we are still absolutely responsible for our actions. Yes, God elects people to salvation (Romans 8:29-30). At the same time, we must believe in Christ to be saved (John 3:16). The two are not mutually exclusive. Both are true. Everyone whom God has chosen will believe, and everyone who believes is chosen by God. Admitting that you cannot perfectly understand the mind of God is the only way to come to a biblical balance on this issue (Romans 11:33-34). Calvinists do not have a perfect understanding of how things work, but there is no denying, biblically speaking, that God is absolutely sovereign in salvation.
"Sovereign" does not equate to meticulous control. Go look up the word. You will not find "control" anywhere in its definition. "Sovereign" simply means "complete authority and all power." No true Christian believes God isn't sovereign, but non-Calvinists just have a better grasp on the word.
@@thomasthepromise8430 Well said!! Never have I met a Christian that doesn't know God to be sovereign - and I've been around Christians my entire life, plenty of excellent ones who were/are definitely not Calvinists. In fact, never in my life did I think of sovereignty as meaning what the Calvinists suggest it means until I started getting bombarded with Calvinism. Why do they have to redefine everything? It creates so much confusion.
I hope you can help me with this. If we are spiritually dead and can not come to God except by the Spirit, then how are we accountable for not coming to God if we have been decreed not to?
During covid, I decided to read the Bible from beginning to end, something I never did. I read the NT many times over and a majority of the OT but went on a mission. I didn't set out to know if Calvinism was true or not, but when I finished, it was clear to me that Calvinism was false and not the gospel. I then abandoned this system and became Eastern Orthodox. My journey led me to the ancient faith once for all proclaimed.
@@andys3035I lean towards a Calvinist understanding of the scriptures, but the message of salvation is what is most important. If a man professes Jesus to be his lord and savior and he believes that in his heart he will be saved. Theological discussions are interesting for sure, but people don’t need to get heated about it when we’re traveling the same path.
@@andys3035 Amen! Glad to hear you didn't fall into Calvinism. I love the writings of the Ante Nicene Christians, they were fighting against Fatalistic determinism even then.
26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. (John 10:26-28, NASB)
Everyone who ever left calvinism did so because one of the points failed. For me it was irresistible grace.... Jesus lamented that Israel would not choose him. Why would he weep for those he chose for destruction? Why would he chastise them if they had no choice? It took 10 years for me to see it but when I did there was no mental gymnastics that could work around this passage. The best my pastor had was that all credit goes to God and all blame goes to man. What a cold and illogical theology... so glad I'm free of it.
I didn’t know anything about the 5 points , I was raised to believe the opposite of Calvinism and also because I didn’t read the Bible , I just believe what others taught and until one day I open up the Bible, all that was told to me was a complete lie .. most of these like the ones in the video are close to open theism or insert their own ideas in the Bible and twisting them as they go .
Jesus lamented that the leaders would not allow the children to be gathered. Mat 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! O Jerusalem, Jerusalem the city the kills the prophets. Who are those references to when He says Jerusalem ? The leaders. Scribes, Pharisees and Sanhedrin. I wanted to gather YOUR children. How’s children? The children of Jerusalem. Of the same leaders. YOU were not willing. Who is the YOU. It’s the same people he’s rebuking in the whole chapter 23. The scribes, Pharisees and Sanhedrin. He says the same thing in vs 13 Mat 23:13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.
Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. I recently made it (that lament by Jesus) my memory verse. He doesn't say, "but the Father chose not to grant you regeneration that you may have faith in me." He says simply: Ye would not! If Calvinism is true, then why should we mourn the lost? Why not just shrug our shoulders and say oh well, who cares? Why grieve over people that God never intended to save? Yet, Jesus grieved. I think that indicates something.
“Thus says Yahweh, “Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind And makes flesh his strength, And whose heart turns away from Yahweh.” Jeremiah 17:5 LSB
That is right--Calvinists trusting in their false god of their own creation, their false doctrines, and in their own works (perseverance of the saints) to get them to heaven rather than on Christ. When you guys actually get saved and receive the Holy Spirit, you'll hate the disgusting, religiously prideful cretin you were before as a Calvinist. Be free in Jesus' name!
@@aletheia8054spoken like a true stealth calvinist, aka snake in the grass. You ought to be truthful of what you say, because God hates lies. And playing word games to avoid a label is a lie. 😊
In short, Total depravity is in scriptures to prove 1 Cor 2:14, Rom 8:7-8, John 6:44,65. If exegeted correctly man has no inate ability to understand, believe and come on his own. His nature is hostile, indifferent towards God. His will is a slave of sin John 8:34 and must first be set free by the Son. Sinners are blinded by Satan 2:Cor 4:4 and cannot act contrary to their dead nature. No true libertarian freewill or human ability to counter otherwise. Arminians believe Total depravity which I have more respect but claims Prevenient grace negates that condition, restores libertarian freewill to choose to believe or reject. That is nowhere in scripture i mean PG. The problem that must be exposed is modern day pelagianism, which is revived from the pit of hell. Its the belief that man on his own has residual ability after the fall to come, believe on his own. We have to remember that this was condemned im history. Jordan understands what total depravity is and the scriptures that teaches it. But his belief in mans inate residual ability, his humanistic philosophical lense gives him no choice but to reject total depravity. Rom 3:10- No one is good, No one seeks after God, there is none righteous. John 3 - men loved darkness rather than light for their deeds are evil and will not come to the light. Do not let rationalism, emotional fallacies to interpret scriptures . Rom 8:8 Those who are in the flesh ( unregenerates) cannot please God. This means even the fleshly ability to make moral choices to please God does not exist. He cannot please God no matter what he does. 1 cor 1:18 the gospel is foolishness to unregenerates but it is the power of God unto salvation, the absolute sovereignty of God in salvation that saves not Human ability. John 6 - Jesus said the flesh profits nothing. This is Jesus explanation why the multitudes left Him. They must first be drawn by the Father John 6:44, or no one can come unless granted by the Father 6:65. Spiritually dead sinners do not come on their own. They must be drawn first, raised from the dead first Eph 2:1- He made us alive when we were dead in sin,... when we were dead not when able. Semi pelagians dont believe in any type of pre salvation grace or aid. According to L Flowers, sinners only need to hear the right information. Thats good enough grace because man can respond on his own. Hes not fully dead. But why did Paul say He made us alive when we were dead in sin Eph 2:1. Jesus said the Father must draw you or no one can come John 6:44. No it takes more than hearing because we are dead. Dead means dead not just wounded. Is Pelagian doctrine from hell still alive today?
”…he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life (because we are spiritually dead) to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.“ Romans 8 ”And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive…” Colossians 2:13 Being spiritually dead isn’t a question just for Calvinists- it’s a biblical truth no matter what soteriological perspective you have.
”But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, *I judge not mine own self.* For I know nothing by myself; *yet am I not hereby justified* : but he that judgeth me is the Lord. *Therefore judge nothing before the time* , until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.“ 1 Corinthians 4:3-5 Even Calvin!!
And who does God draw and call? 1 Timothy 2:3-6 “3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for All, to be testified in due time,” 2 Corinthians 5:14-15, 19 "14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for ALL, then ALL died; 15 and He died FOR ALL, that those who live should live no loner for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again...19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation." Titus 2:11 "11 For the Grace of God that Brings Salvation Has Appeared to ALL MEN." John 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL peoples to Myself.” John 16:8 "And when He has come, He will convict the WORLD of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment" Luke 5:32 "I have not come to call the righteous, but Sinners, to repentance." Matthew 11:28 “Come to me, ALL who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” Luke 19:10 "for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save what which was lost." That is everyone, everyone is lost. Calvinism is the lie.
@@JStevensdk7obviously all doesn’t mean every single individual person on this earth, because everyone who is drawn by the Father is raised up on the last day, and we know not everyone is raised on the last day. Unless you’re a universalist? Knowing the Greek is important, the Bible wasn’t written in English.
@@KnightFel No it does, all means all, God calls and draws all, your falsely assuming the drawing and calling is effectual, it's not. The verse says "raise Him up" doesn't say raise all. Who is the "him"? And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” John 6:40 NKJV The one who believes, and everyone and anyone can and has the ability per Kosmos Sozo John 3:17. Please try harder.
She said the Bible does not say God chose to save some before the foundation of the world. But it does. It says it literally and blatantly. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
@@aletheia8054please read scriptures in context, and not through the man made philosophy of tulip. Why are these people chosen or not chosen? Look at the previous verse, some did not believe. Look at the very verse you quote, some believe. Those who believe are called by the gospel. TULIP is the eisegesis.
@@goodshorts Gods children believe because they were chosen. Duh I’m the one that looks at the context not you. Every verse in the Bible is connected to every other verse in the Bible. I look at the whole Bible.
“But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),” Ephesians 2:4-5
I so appreciate your work & her honest testimony. Hopefully many more will leave this false teaching that impunes the nature & character of our Heavenly Father, whom sent His Son to redeem all that will simply receive His gift of salvation.
Preach the Gospel to Muslims in Iran. Tell them they have the ability to believe the Word of God and Jesus Christ as God incarnate. You'll quickly realize the truth of total depravity.
@@ManassehJones Hmm, I am in contact with a few different ministries that are in Muslim countries & have reached many of them for Christ. Maybe you deny Romans 1:16-17 & that God's word does return void & doesn't accomplish His work, that's a shame if so.
@@mikelyons2831 All Gods elect in false religions will believe and be brought out of their total depravity. Thats a very, very, tiny, few. The rest remain totally deprave. Self will cannot overcome total depravity in the face of the gospel. Its only a work of God. If you've preached in Muslim countries, you would know this.
@@ManassehJonesYou're just as brainwashed as the Muslims because here you are denying biblical Truth and instead choosing to believe the lies of demons. It's those demonic strongholds keeping you in the captivity of your religious pride and spiritual deadness. God is a million times greater than you know but you are spiritually blind and deceived into thinking you have it all but you are only seeing light shine on the floor through the keyhole and not ever opening the door.
I am no calvinist, but i was amazed by this verse here: "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies." Psalms 58:3 KJV Now, just because the wicked do as their father, the devil, does not mean God made them this way; because freewill is a part of us from within the womb.
The ones God predestinated to be conformed to the image of Christ before the foundation of this world was created have you not read your Bible! If God did not choose to save a few everyone would go to hell!
@@user-lh3uk6by3i Both Israel and the 12 Apostles were the elect, yet not all of Israel nor all Apostles saved. Election does not mean elected for salvation, it means election for service.
@@HaddingtonJamesBearThe3rdJr. God is love and Just, in Calvinism there's no justice, God just randomly chose people to be saved unconditionally before the foundation of the world. So sin makes no sense. It would mean everything people do is the will of God. Also, Calvinists say that men can't have freewill else God is not in control, non-calvinist say God is in control because he can intervene whenever he wants despite our free will, so Calvinism limits God's sovereignty.
Ephesians 2 seems to be saying we were dead in sin. Jesus talked about not being born of the will of man in John 3. Yeah only God can do the miracle of raising those dead in sin and re-birthing them.
Total depravity doesn’t mean what you say it means. It means the total man is affected by the fall-his total being. Also, read Isaiah 53:6, Ephesians 2:1 & 2:5, Romans 3:23, Colossians 2:16, Romans 6:23, and on and on.
We are not born spiritually dead but alive and only die spiritually when we willfully sin. That is literally what the Bible says. Here it is in a Calvinist translation, but also in EVERY translation. "I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me." Romans 7:9-11 ESV So the false doctrines of total depravity and original sin cannot exist in the same world as that Truth. These concepts came about to justify infant baptism and give the false church more power and control not because that's what the Bible says. 1600 years later you have the same demons of Calvinism leading the false converts and idolaters in Calvinism into the captivity of false religion and religious pride. Jesus wants to know you and set you free but you refuse to believe Him at who He says He is. Repent of your unbelief and believe!
Tanner. If Total Depravity DID NOT exist, there would be no need for a TOTAL REBIRTH! You are entitled to your opinions, but Truth doesn't care about your opinions. 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a 👉new creature👈: old things are passed away; behold, 👉ALL things are become new.👈
In response to the context of your plea for the elect to "repent of your unbelief and believe." Not sure how an elect son of God, made an entirely new creature in Christ by the will and grace of God alone, posessed by the Holy Spirit and being conformed more into the image of He who lives in them, can repent and reverse that effectual calling and declare your gospel of Self Determinism. It was against our Self Determinism that we got saved by Gods grace.
So by what you say if a person went his whole life with out sinning he would then go on to heaven??? If that is so then Jesus would not have died for ALL. Every one is born on the way to hell. Every person born since Adam is a sinner. After Adam only Jesus has known no sin. The idea that we are born sinless is heresy. If we are born sinless then we are born Holy. If we are not born Holy then we are born sinful.
Apparently neither of you understood what I said at all. I even gave you the proof text to prove that we are born spiritually alive, but you both deny what the Bible says and neither of you provided any sort of biblical citation to prove that we are born spiritually dead or to prove total depravity or even born with sin. This is Christianity 101. This is THE primary tenant of Christianity--that God took on flesh as Jesus and lived a sinless life as a man--as the only sinless man ever--and thus was the perfect lamb to pay for all the sin of the world. I didn't say that we are holy when we are born. I said we are without sin and we are spiritually alive--our human spirit is alive. Then we die when we sin. When we are born again, our human spirit is brought back to life by the Holy Spirit. Literally exactly what I cited Paul saying. Pre-fall Adam is not even called holy. Only God is holy--its why His righteousness had to be attributed to us, and why we had to be spiritually born again through His Spirit. If your Jesus is the idol/false god of Calvinism then you aren't born again and you have a different spirit and believe a different gospel. That is what Paul tells us in Galatians. So if you deny these fundamental biblical truths and choose to trust on your false doctrines instead, then do you even have the Holy Spirit? Are you even born again?
@@tannerfrancisco8759 Born under 1st Adams federal headship dead unto God and alive unto sin. Born 100% Totally deprave of Truth or any autonomy any more. Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are 👉alive from the dead👈, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but👉 alive unto God👈 through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 7:9-10 👉For I was alive without the law once👈 (an infant) : but when the commandment came, sin revived, and 👉I died.👈 [10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
I'm confused. I have heard calvinists say that God determined we sin not that we have free will and there are some that say know, we choose to sin with our own free will to do so. That to me shows that Calvinism is taken with eisegesis right there, no one can agree with them, not even themselves.
Curious? How did he or she elevate man? God Sovereignly wrote & preserved His Word & they used their God given ability to read & comprehend it. Millions who boldly professes Jesus as Lord believe the text says what it says.
@@ethanlash914yeah, no duh. Literally no one is claiming that except the Calvinists falsely accusing actual believers of doing that. You'll understand when you actually trust on Jesus, get saved, and stop trusting in the false doctrines of unsaved, demon possessed men.
@@tannerfrancisco8759 this comment alone just shows the lack of knowledge of reformed theology. Have fun explaining to God why you had some innate good in you to choose him and why the other guy didnt. Have fun explaining to God how you used your "free will" to choose him, 50% you 50% God huh?
I'd like to point out there's a reason Jesus was born of a virgin. He wasn't born of a man and woman, otherwisely he would have inherited the sin nature. Jesus was truly man but sinless (1 Peter 2:22), without inherent sin and without doing acts of sin. In Adam we all die, but all (believers) are made alive in Christ (Romans 15:22).
When one realizes by the Spirit of God the Truth of their total depravity, then the pleading for Gods mercy begins. No realization of total depravity, no pleading for mercy.
Ha! The religious false humility of a Calvinist is the only humility they know. It's that religious pride demon masquerading as a counterfeit holy spirit that leads them so deeply into deception. You people are spouting the lies of demons not the Truth of God. What your saying makes no sense. If you were totally depraved then God would NOT tell us a million times to choose Him and His ways. Those words would fall on deaf ears that cannot hear and would be void. There is ZERO biblical evidence for the false doctrine of total depravity. Yes, we are depraved and sinners incapable of reaching heaven through our own efforts, but that doesn't mean it is impossible for us to acknowledge that and instead choose to believe God which is exactly what God says over and over and over. The entire theme of the Bible is that you can believe and choose God's ways and then He will save you. But it's why you'll always have doubt, always lack assurance, and always trust in your works (perseverance of the saints) to get you to heaven rather than on Jesus--because you don't believe God--or you wouldn't be Calvinists. I have zero doubt, I have 100% assurance because I'm believe God at His word and I have His indwelt Spirit bearing witness to me that I am a son of God. You only have a religious pride demon keeping you in captivity. There really is more! The Holy Spirit of the Bible is literally real and does what He says He does. So when you finally repent of your unbelief and believe what God says then you will receive the real Spirit of Truth and Jesus will deliver you from your religious pride demons, and you'll be saved. Or you'll continue to harden your hearts unto death. The choice IS yours.
Do you have to teach a child to hit? Or to not hit? Do you have to teach a child to share? Or not share? Do you have to teach a child to talk back ? Or not talk back? Children are born innocent but that natural inclination is there from the beginning! David said even in his mothers womb, should we erase that verse? And the Bible does say we were dead in our sins and God made us alive to righteousness in Christ! It says that wether we can accept that or not!
“Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,” II Timothy 1:8-9 NKJV “Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”” John 3:4-8 NKJV
“And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” II Thessalonians 2:11-12 NKJV “Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.” Romans 8:7-8 NKJV
“For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.” Romans 8:5-9
”And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience- among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved-“ Ephesians 2:1-5 It’s pretty clear
In my view it is maybe universal depravity but not total depravity. Our underlying being is ultimately good, it is original sin that separates us from God, but that doesn’t mean we’re totally depraved.
God doesn't think like man, and you couldn't see depraved. man is shaped in iniquity;and in sin did my mother conceive me. Ps. 51:5, " The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked... " Jeremiah 17:9: "We are all as an unclean thing, and our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. Isaiah 64:6. also you can't change yourself Jeremiah 13:23: also God is immutable. God chose Israel and no other nation. God told Saul to kill off the Amalekites Man, Women, child, and sucklings, and all of there live stock. 1 Samuel 15:3: did any of the Israelites say " ah, Lord what you are asking us to do is not right.? " Didn't he judge the world with the flood? Jesus said it out of his own mouth " you have not chosen me but I have chosen you. John 15:16: Jesus also said " have not I chosen you twelve and one of you is a devil. " John 6:70: " I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, he that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heal against me. John 13:18: and didn't Jesus pray for His own or for the world? John 17: shows that Jesus prayed for those whom the Father has given him and not the world, so then how is the word " world " used?. no man can come to Christ except the Father draw him. John 6:44 can you explain that sir and the Lady laughing? or are you there like Judas, " that the scripture may be fulfilled. that's a scary place to be period. God isn't fair, if he was we'd all be in hell. he's showing mercy to who so ever He wills. cause if he died on the cross for all of mankind everyone would be saved. We all must accept everything God says and does without murmuring and complaining. Ps. 25:9-10: be careful I hope your not hear to fulfill the scriptures. GOD is all sovereign.
“And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”” John 6:65 case closed
The way I’m seeing it is that we are made in the image of God, meaning if he can choose, so can we. He just happens to know when a person has made their choice
We are born spiritually separate from God but still made in His image created to be eternal, with the abilities to think and choose, see our need hear His voice and ask for a new heart from God.
“For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.” Romans 5:19
Romans 3:9-18 ESV [9] What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, [10] as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; [11] no one understands; no one seeks for God. [12] All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” [13] “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” [14] “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” [15] “Their feet are swift to shed blood; [16] in their paths are ruin and misery, [17] and the way of peace they have not known.” [18] “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” John 6:44 ESV [44] No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
It doesn't say it EXPLICITY, only IMPLICITLY. Calvanism explains the logical reality. God is omniscient, and not only knows events but every mundane action you take in your day to day. And since he knows everything, he knew when you were going to heaven or hell before the universe as we know it was created, therefore you were chosen by god. You were chosen by god to go to heaven, to hell, etc. Calvinism shows the ugly truth behind The logic.
I love it what a non-Calvinist brings in the term “context.” It’s an invitation to exegesis! At that point, the non-Calvinist begins to prooftext, because they cannot stay in one text for long and abandon the context. 🤣
So neither of them got to read Ephesians 2:1-10 or John 6:63 where Jesus said that it is the Spirit gives life, the flesh or human nature is of no use.?
I think predestination vs free will is a fake dichotomy, people just don't understand how God knows everything before hand and yet we still have free will. If a seed chose before it was planted what type of tree it is and then it is planted it is predestined and has free will.
I find it very interesting the resolve people have on all sides. However, is there someone willing to make more than an assertion about what they believe the Bible says. Our lack of seeing things does not make it false, it’s your failure to recognize your presuppositions.
My biggest issue with the provisionist movement is that there is a narrow view of how the provisionist doctrine is applied I would love to here how your view holds up against something other than Calvinist and to me if it is not applicable against other false world views then don’t have a positive position just one that isn’t Calvinist
Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. Sinners from birth, you must be reborn, we are the stock of Adam and so we must accept Christs substitutionary atonement for our sins.
This is open theism. God is beholden to humanity’s free will and He learns? If He chooses, then that’s not fair, they say. Read from Genesis to Revelation. It’s all about God choosing. It is essential we understand the doctrine of God. If you understand all of that, you will stop elevating man and the misguided notion that we naturally love God, and you will Elevate God and realize that He is merciful to have snatched you out of the fire, and united you to His dear Son. Soli Deo Gloria!
This guy is a true politician. Instead of just preaching the Gospel (the only message God has promised to bless) he insist on posting videos that do nothing but cause believers to fight and argue with eachother. Which ultimately divides the church making them weaker against the attacks of the enemy.
I'm sure that the structure of every video is meant to be a complete exegesis of the Bible. To be fair, some conversations are between two or more people that are already on the same page so not everything needs to be expounded fully since some assumptions can be made. This is how conversation works.
I used to be a Calvinist for over 20 year. I was convinced that Calvinism and its TULIP were biblical. But it turns out it is anything but biblical. Calvinism's authority is not Scripture. Its authority is outside of the Scriptures built on Maniachian Gnosticism, Pelagian presuppositions of Free Will, and Augustinian Predestination and it must search the Bible, taking verses out of context, inventing new definitions for biblical words that were never intended, plus a bunch of word salad, in order to support the unbiblical view of Calvinism. The whole TULIP is built from the T, Total Depravity, a myth, and the ULIP necessarily flows from T. Lordship Salvation, a tenet of Calvinism defined by the P in TULIP, Perseverance of the Saints, is a another gospel, it is works salvation, and salvation is by faith PLUS something else, which contradicts the Bible. If you think that you are smart and that you would never be deceived by false teachers, then please reconsider as I did. I was fooled, and you too can be fooled too when your beliefs are based on authority outside of the Bible. We must never ever ever put the words and teachings of man above what the Bible says. We are in serious danger when we elevate popular Calvinist Lordship Salvation teachers like John McArthur and John Piper and RC Sproul above the authority of the Bible, thinking that the words of fallen men can not teach serious, dambable error.
Romans 3: 9-20, Romans 5:12-21, Ephesians 2:1-10 We hate God and love our sin apart from the working of the Holy Ghost. That is not illogical, it is biblical. How can a man in and of himself change his own heart of stone to a heart of flesh. He can’t, he needs something outside of himself. that is, Gods effectual grace, working in time (ie. the word of God, a preacher, or other means of grace) to bring about this change. Jesus says in John 6 that no one can come to the son unless they are drawn by the father. that is Trinitarian language in the working out of salvation. which is something you can not confirm if you hold to your current position my brother/sister. i hope this is helpful in someway, even if you disagree. God bless
Is this guy really forgetting that when Jesus speaks to dead people they become alive? This is why some people that are “dead” mustn’t hear so that they do not become alive. “And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: that seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.” Mark 4:11-12 KJV
Total Depravity is true, just not to point of what Calvinists conclude. The Bible definitely supports total depravity of the flesh, but it doesn't support total depravity of basic human creation.
So is this man implying that original sin is a Calvinist belief? It doesnt sound like hes talking about total depravity, it sounds like hes talking about original sin.
Words mean something. In general one must employ the grammatico-historical hermeneutic in studying the Bible. Any other approach yields stupid outcomes such as universalism and Arminian/Provisionism (A/P). This lack of proper hermeneutic is much of the reason the A/Ps do not understand, and sometimes do not even know the Gospel in the first place. Bad hermeneutics gives birth to the prosperity, name it and claim it, A/Ps of this world. Proper hermeneutics have with the power of God's Holy Spirit contributed to the building of the true Gospel in the ministries of folks like Paul, Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Owen, John Bunyan, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, RC Sproul, Jonathan Edwards, Richard Sibbes, etc., etc. The fact that the A/Ps have no all star lineup of powerful ministries such as this is a testamemt to their lack of biblical education and general resistance to the truths of God's revealed word. You would think that some A/Ps would see the difference in theologies and who shaped and followed them and realize that there is something fatal in the A/P view. Actually, I was one of the people (and the number is rapidly growing worldwide) who was awakened to God's overwhelming powerful truths having served the golden calf of A/P in my earlier years.
Yup exactly, why the heck would the most recited Bible verse be, “For God so loved the WORLD that he gave his only begotten son, that WHOSOEVER believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life”
Luke 9:60 60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. Your a dead man if wasn’t for God, who gives life to whoever He wants
So when God said to Adam if he sinned he'd die, and that was a spiritual death totally separated from God. Your saying this develops over time and that we're not dead in sin when we are born. Interesting.
Even Adam and Eve were capable of sinning before they fell; otherwise they would've never disobeyed God and ate the fruit. How much temptation do you think was in the garden of Eden? They were the two only humans on the earth, and they had one commandment. There weren't too many ways to fall, but they found one. Free will is to blame. Likewise, children need to be told what they cannot do or they will just do it. It doesn't mean they're evil from birth. They're evil when they choose to disobey.
Dude is arguing people are born "good"? Children do not have to be taught to lie, steal, or be selfish. They have to be taught not to.
That doesn't mean people are totally depraved. Calvinism is the totally depraved ravings of a evil man. Calvin had a man burned at the stake and told his followers to bring green wood to make the man suffer more. He lived for an hour while being slowly roasting. Calvin was totally depraved for his evil doctrine, for turning the message of a loving God into a Satanic brute.
The doctrine of Total Depravity isn't simply that people are born with a tendency to sin. Alana and Jordan would both affirm that.
The doctrine of Total Depravity insists that people are born unable and unwilling to believe the gospel and can only do so once regenerated.
Calvinists use passages that talk about wicked, hardened people, such as in the time of Noah, to prove that no one can believe until they are regenerated. Alana's point is simple - the passages actually don't say that.
@@OnTheRogersJourney Yes, but the Bible does say that. People who aren't saved are sinful, evil. You and I included until we receive the gift of salvation from God alone. Based on NOTHING that we did ourselves. All the Reformers rightly taught us this much, not just Calvin.
@user-lh3uk6by3i
The Bible doesn't say that we are depraved, it says that we are lost: Luke 19:10
King James Version
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Isaiah 53:6
King James Version
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Yes, we are all born in sin, sinful flesh and because we serve the flesh, Romans 6, we become trangressers in need of a Savior, for which Jesus died on the cross.
@@MyRoBeRtBaKeR semantics... sinful depravity
There's no man that didn't choose sin over God naturally.
Every believer chose God, even while they still sin.
There is not one person who chose God, who didn't still chose sin. Thus, this "chose sin over God" has nothing to do with salvation.
You're committing a fallacy, and why? To say God's a narcissistic crybully?
John 6:44-51 KJV
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. This explains that God brings you to Jesus first you don't just choose to believe not a fallacy i don't know were you get that from
I’m guessing that means that you and others like you have supernaturally chosen God over sin?
@@theodorerobert6774 Not at all. God regenerated and brought us out of the pit, from darkness into His marvellous light. Not of our will but God's will.
How does one operate in evil without acknowledging good? One cant exist or stand alone without the other.
John 6:44 :No one can come to me unless the father draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day." Very clear.
John 12:32 KJV
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
@@tommysuriel Different context than John 6:37-44. You can't take a different context in one verse and apply it to other verses.
@@tommysuriel your interpretation can't easily be destroyed...
Then stop ignoring plain readings of scripture that say God wants all to be saved [is he double minded?] that Jesus would have gathered Jerusalem to himself but they were not willing [is Jesus upset at people that he chose by his own will to not believe him?] Etc etc etc.@@2timothy23
@@2timothy23 Does or does it not say "when I am lifted up I will draw all men to myself?
Obviously because the Son of God was existing as a human while on earth he could not call all men to Himself. But after he was resurrected and returned to His Father, he had the power and authority from the Father to call all men to himself.
“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being[c] will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. Romans 3:11-20
Amen. I too reject the notion of Total Depravity/ Inability. I'm glad you cited this passage.
It is a sovereign God who chose the means of accessing His grace be faith. The Bible says that God chose to save those that believe. It does not say that God makes believe those whom He regenerates. Thanks for bringing up this passage.
Amen to the truth!
@@davidvanwye8108 Can you read?
@@user-lh3uk6by3i Yes. Why do you ask? You certainly don't think that simply posting a portion of Romans 3 is "case closed" for this issue, do you?
@@davidvanwye8108 Genesis 3:6, Isaiah 4:6, I could go on and on. The entire Bible teaches that only God is holy and men are born with sin. No, I don't suspect any of this is enough for you. I guess a better question would be: do you know how to read the Bible and have you read it?
This is wild, bro hasnt read the bible "you were dead in your sins"
If we're dead in our sins, as you weirdo cultists add "like Lazarus"(despite the scriptures not saying this), then why does God tell you to choose anything? If you cannot choose then God lies to us.
In other words, congratulations, you're lying by omission.
@@SeanWinters huh?
Original sin ≠ total depravity we by definition of being the image of god cannot be totally depraved as original sin doesn’t change our essence it corrupts it; which is why we have a bodily resurrection and not reincarnation
@@Commandosoap777who is this responding to
It's actually very prideful to say something like, you can come to Christ by yourself.
It's calling Jesus a liar in John 6:44
@@tomtemple69 God can open the door for us, but we have to walk through. That's not saying you come to the kingdom without Christ, like you can get into heaven with or without Christ. But God gave us the dignity of free will for a reason. He does not rape our will.
@@justaguy328 john 6:37
@Scribeintheink John 3:20, 27, 32
²⁰For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, so that his deeds will not be exposed.
²⁷John replied, “A person can receive not even one thing unless it has been given to him from heaven.
³²What He has seen and heard, of this He testifies; and no one accepts His testimony.
@tomtemple69 John 6:44 says, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." I don't understand how Jesus could be a liar here, we cannot come to Him by our own will.
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." (Romans 3.10-12)
"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." (Psalm 51.5)
"The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies." (Psalm 58.3)
There's a lot more, shall I continue?
Romans 3:9-13 (NASB95): all under sin;
10 as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave,
I'm uninterested to debate, peace. however want to be sure you realize that often time people quoted Paul's saying above don't realize where it is from Psalm:
There they are in great fear, For God is with the generation of the righteous. (Psalms 14:5 NKJV)
So it begs the question why David or God considered the existence of righteous men at that time. Paul isn't just saying none are righteous, he simply means without believing Jesus can't be righteous for those law abiding Jews
@@swu11 I think you and I would likely have agreement in regards to the point that Paul is making in Romans 3. Here is his point: Romans 3:19 (NASB95): Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
Peace to you as well.
100909%
Romans 5:15-17 ESV
But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. [16] And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. [17] For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:1-5 ESV
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins [2] in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience- [3] among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. [4] But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, [5] even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved-
True, except we aren't born guilty of Adam's sin. Nowhere in the Bible says that, instead it says "all men sin". Ezekiel says clearly In 20:18 that we won't be guilty of our father's sin, therefore we can only be guilty of our own sin, not Adam's.
So we suffer the consequences of Adam's sin, that's death, but we only suffer hell out of our OWN sin, not Adam's. Therefore, BABIES ARE NOT HELLBOUND.
This isn't hard if you actually read the Bible.
@@SeanWinters Ezekiel 20:18 ESV
"And I said to their children in the wilderness, 'Do not walk in the statutes of your fathers, nor keep their rules, nor defile yourselves with their idols.
This has nothing to do with inheriting past sins. It is a command to not walk in past behavior. It is a command to not follow in their sins. In fact 20:21 says they did follow their fathers sins regardless.
Romans 5:15-17 ESV
But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. [16] And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. [17] For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
What does it mean if Many die through one man’s trash pass? Scripture clearly says that sin leads to death. Not our own but the sin of the curse because one man sin causing us all to sin. But if it were about our sins then why doesn’t Paul just say our sin rather than Adams???
What is the result of one man’s sin? What is the judgment that follows Adams trespass?
What is this death that reigns in one trespass???
We don’t sin sending ourselves to hell just because we sin by choice. We are born that way. We are born dead in our trespass unable to turn. Our will cannot believe unless God Draws us.
How else would Ephesians 2 read to you? We were born alive in Christ and then through our own actions became dead and then made alive again?
I encourage you to read hermeneutically through exegetical context. Scripture will become more relevant and real..
I doubt she was ever into Reformed into reform theology
Most of the people who claim they were reformed, expose themselves. When they try to explain reformed theology, you find out they have no idea what they are talking about.
In my case, i was so lost i truly needed God's miraculous intervention for salvific faith.
Amen as we all did brother. Only those who are lost can be found.
Yes, of course your faith came from God, it's not gonna come from an atheist or some other religion, Jesus gave the great commission, so anything that can convince you that Jesus is the way they truth and the life must come from God.
So the folks in this video are not only denying the doctrines of grace, but the doctrine of original sin as well? You don’t have to be a Calvinist to be my brother in the faith, but you place yourself outside the faith if you deny that we are all born naturally fallen and sinful as the sons and daughters of Adam.
They never said people arent sinful or born with a bent towards sin.
They said people are NEVER BORN UNABLE TO BELIEVE GOD.
Faith is not a work, no matter how much Pelagius and Calvin try to make it a work.
The Bible specifically puts a line between faith and works - they are not the same thing.
You are NEVER saved by your works. You are justified through Jesus resurrection after you BELIEVE.
The heart is deceitful above all things,
and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Amen.
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to *all men*
*Teaching us* that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, *in this present world*
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of *the great God* and our Saviour *Jesus Christ*
{Titus 2:11-12}
@jasonr9678. Duh. The guy totally missed it.
Free will = ignorance
@jasonr9678don't use doctrine to define the definition of words. You just gave the perfect example of how the calvinist deception works.
Titus was referring to the elect duh 🙄 Titus 1:2-3
Tit 1:1 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth, which accords with godliness,
Tit 1:2 in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began
Tit 1:3 and at the proper time manifested in his word through the preaching with which I have been entrusted by the command of God our Savior;
Tit 1:4 To Titus, my true child in a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
@@wretchedsavedbygrace4499
It doesnt say for all the elect.
You haven't the truth of God in you.
@@larrybedouin2921 it doesn’t say every person on the face of the planet, either
It is the antecedent to the word us. Seventh grade grammar.
Like Alanna said, when you read Romans & Ephesians in the context that Paul intended rather than with the Calvinistic lenses on, Calvinism is refuted.
The key is, however, one must be willing to remove the Calvinistic lenses. One must humble themself and try to understand from a different perspective. One must set aside their pride and pray for the Lord to show them any error in their theology.
Not many Calvinists, or non-Calvinists, for that matter, are interested in doing that; searching for God’s Truth in His Word.
Self Determinists believe "Calvinists" must be willing to remove their glasses, only proving the Self Determinists believe "Self" is autonomous, only proving the Total Depravity in the logic of the Self Determinist himself.
You can’t read it with freewill glasses on either.
If you read the entire Bible, you’ll notice that
A) God’s glory is paramount and
B) See above
Your Pelagian lenses are keeping you from taking the Word of God at face value. His glory, and His glory alone. The deaths of the Egyptian firstborn? His glory. The destruction of the Canaanites? His glory. What possibly makes you believe from Scripture that your “free will” means anything to the Living God?
@@MHzle734 they don’t have a free will. There is no such thing. They have a human flesh will.
@@aletheia8054 - How about we simply approach God’s Word with a desire to understand it rightly and be willing to humbling admit when we are shown to be wrong?
I believe this is the best way to glorify God in our discussions. I believe this is how Jordan & Alana have presented themselves in this video. I believe we can all learn from their example.
Unfortunately, many who claim Christ as their Lord and Savior do not present themselves as humble Christians in the context of YT comment threads. It does damage to the cause of Christ, in my opinion.
May He help His people reflect His grace and love even in YT comment threads.
God is not the author of confusion!
Is that why Christians are so confused?
The irony is that when people atack the doctrine of total depravity, by doing that they prof actually the doctrine to be true. Because humans are depraved, they believe that they are not depraved.
God bless
So, your point is that God loved you from before the creation of the world and created your neighbor for the express purpose of sending him to hell for all eternity without any opportunity to repent.
Friend, i would encourage you to read" The Gnostic Origins of Calvinism" by university of Oxford Dr Ken Wilson. You will discover the early church didn't hold to these beliefs and considered them heresies.
@@sethpawlik The reformers all understood this truths. Has nothing to do whit gnosticism. You have to realize that man is fallen and that he es against God and that he hates God but loves sin. You have to realize that election is essencial, if anyone should go to heaven. And you need to understand that God does not force anyone to go to hell. Man reject God willfuly, and chose hell for themselves. (Even if we believe in predestination).
@@teologiareformata-posttenebrasI can only take your position seriously if you concede you might now be elect. And I think your entire pagan imposter religion is pure undulaterated satanism anyway.
@@teologiareformata-posttenebras exactly. The Bible says the the natural man "sees the things of God as foolishness".
Only God can save. Without God’s grace we are dead in our sins. We need God in order to desire God. Without God’s direct intervention, humans will never choose him on their own because they are sinful and fallen. So they are born into this state. Their hearts are hopelessly sinful.
So we aren’t born in a state of neutrality where we can truly choose what is good. We are born into a state of death and sin where we quite literally lack the ability to choose what is good, namely God. Yet, according to Calvinists, we are justly condemned for not choosing God, even though they also teach that we effectively lack the ability to choose him without him electing us. They like to get around this by saying we “willfully” choose sin. But let’s be real here, it’s not a choice at all. A creature born in sin lacks any genuine ability to choose God, like a blind person lacks the ability to see. It would be unjust to condemn a person born blind for not being able to see.
You have free will! But you can never actually choose anything but sin. But it’s just for God to damn you because you desire sin. But you can only desire sin by your fallen nature.
You’re all damned. You all deserve to be damned. You cannot do what is right. You literally lack the ability to do that. God will choose a few people to redeem amongst the majority of those he damns. He is just to damn you, even though you effectively can’t do anything of your own power to alter your sin nature.
Am I getting this right?
Based on quite a few dialogues/debates, my best guess is that many people so strongly oppose Calvinism because they hate the idea that they are not in control. They despise the idea that their faith was predestined. They loathe the concept that God choosing them had anything to do with them coming to Christ for salvation. Simply put, they want to think that they are fully in control of their own eternal destiny. They chose to receive Christ as Savior. And for many, they adamantly hold onto the idea that they can also choose to reject Christ as Savior after previously trusting in Him for salvation.
What Calvinism haters do not understand, or refuse to accept, is that God's absolute sovereignty does not negate the fact that we are still absolutely responsible for our actions. Yes, God elects people to salvation (Romans 8:29-30). At the same time, we must believe in Christ to be saved (John 3:16). The two are not mutually exclusive. Both are true. Everyone whom God has chosen will believe, and everyone who believes is chosen by God. Admitting that you cannot perfectly understand the mind of God is the only way to come to a biblical balance on this issue (Romans 11:33-34). Calvinists do not have a perfect understanding of how things work, but there is no denying, biblically speaking, that God is absolutely sovereign in salvation.
"Sovereign" does not equate to meticulous control. Go look up the word. You will not find "control" anywhere in its definition. "Sovereign" simply means "complete authority and all power." No true Christian believes God isn't sovereign, but non-Calvinists just have a better grasp on the word.
No. People oppose Calvinism because Calvinism opposes itself.
@@thomasthepromise8430 Well said!! Never have I met a Christian that doesn't know God to be sovereign - and I've been around Christians my entire life, plenty of excellent ones who were/are definitely not Calvinists. In fact, never in my life did I think of sovereignty as meaning what the Calvinists suggest it means until I started getting bombarded with Calvinism. Why do they have to redefine everything? It creates so much confusion.
No, they oppose it because it's heresy. Plain and simple.
I hope you can help me with this. If we are spiritually dead and can not come to God except by the Spirit, then how are we accountable for not coming to God if we have been decreed not to?
Psalm 51:5 says, "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
and in sin my mother conceived me."
During covid, I decided to read the Bible from beginning to end, something I never did. I read the NT many times over and a majority of the OT but went on a mission. I didn't set out to know if Calvinism was true or not, but when I finished, it was clear to me that Calvinism was false and not the gospel. I then abandoned this system and became Eastern Orthodox. My journey led me to the ancient faith once for all proclaimed.
bad news...read it again
@@Mr-Bogdan I'm guessing you believe Calvinism is true based on Scripture?
@@andys3035I lean towards a Calvinist understanding of the scriptures, but the message of salvation is what is most important. If a man professes Jesus to be his lord and savior and he believes that in his heart he will be saved. Theological discussions are interesting for sure, but people don’t need to get heated about it when we’re traveling the same path.
@SeekerOfSalvation93 agreed. We all are on a journey. Hopefully I didn't sound or come across heated.
@@andys3035 Amen! Glad to hear you didn't fall into Calvinism. I love the writings of the Ante Nicene Christians, they were fighting against Fatalistic determinism even then.
26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. (John 10:26-28, NASB)
Everyone who ever left calvinism did so because one of the points failed. For me it was irresistible grace.... Jesus lamented that Israel would not choose him. Why would he weep for those he chose for destruction? Why would he chastise them if they had no choice? It took 10 years for me to see it but when I did there was no mental gymnastics that could work around this passage. The best my pastor had was that all credit goes to God and all blame goes to man. What a cold and illogical theology... so glad I'm free of it.
for me it was limited atonement
I didn’t know anything about the 5 points , I was raised to believe the opposite of Calvinism and also because I didn’t read the Bible , I just believe what others taught and until one day I open up the Bible, all that was told to me was a complete lie .. most of these like the ones in the video are close to open theism or insert their own ideas in the Bible and twisting them as they go .
Jesus lamented that the leaders would not allow the children to be gathered.
Mat 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem the city the kills the prophets.
Who are those references to when He says Jerusalem ? The leaders. Scribes, Pharisees and Sanhedrin.
I wanted to gather YOUR children. How’s children? The children of Jerusalem. Of the same leaders.
YOU were not willing. Who is the YOU. It’s the same people he’s rebuking in the whole chapter 23. The scribes, Pharisees and Sanhedrin.
He says the same thing in vs 13
Mat 23:13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.
Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. I recently made it (that lament by Jesus) my memory verse. He doesn't say, "but the Father chose not to grant you regeneration that you may have faith in me." He says simply: Ye would not!
If Calvinism is true, then why should we mourn the lost? Why not just shrug our shoulders and say oh well, who cares? Why grieve over people that God never intended to save?
Yet, Jesus grieved. I think that indicates something.
Grace is irresistible for the elect
“Thus says Yahweh, “Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind And makes flesh his strength, And whose heart turns away from Yahweh.”
Jeremiah 17:5 LSB
That’s exactly right. They make the flesh their arm and their strength. The power of themselves.
That is right--Calvinists trusting in their false god of their own creation, their false doctrines, and in their own works (perseverance of the saints) to get them to heaven rather than on Christ. When you guys actually get saved and receive the Holy Spirit, you'll hate the disgusting, religiously prideful cretin you were before as a Calvinist.
Be free in Jesus' name!
@@aletheia8054
You do err exceedingly,
Calvinism is from the wisdom of men.
It is not the good news gospel of Jesus Christ.
@@larrybedouin2921 I’m not a Calvinist. Are you a freewill worshiper?
@@aletheia8054spoken like a true stealth calvinist, aka snake in the grass. You ought to be truthful of what you say, because God hates lies. And playing word games to avoid a label is a lie. 😊
In short, Total depravity is in scriptures to prove 1 Cor 2:14, Rom 8:7-8, John 6:44,65. If exegeted correctly man has no inate ability to understand, believe and come on his own. His nature is hostile, indifferent towards God. His will is a slave of sin John 8:34 and must first be set free by the Son. Sinners are blinded by Satan 2:Cor 4:4 and cannot act contrary to their dead nature. No true libertarian freewill or human ability to counter otherwise.
Arminians believe Total depravity which I have more respect but claims Prevenient grace negates that condition, restores libertarian freewill to choose to believe or reject. That is nowhere in scripture i mean PG.
The problem that must be exposed is modern day pelagianism, which is revived from the pit of hell. Its the belief that man on his own has residual ability after the fall to come, believe on his own. We have to remember that this was condemned im history.
Jordan understands what total depravity is and the scriptures that teaches it. But his belief in mans inate residual ability, his humanistic philosophical lense gives him no choice but to reject total depravity.
Rom 3:10- No one is good, No one seeks after God, there is none righteous.
John 3 - men loved darkness rather than light for their deeds are evil and will not come to the light.
Do not let rationalism, emotional fallacies to interpret scriptures .
Rom 8:8 Those who are in the flesh ( unregenerates) cannot please God. This means even the fleshly ability to make moral choices to please God does not exist. He cannot please God no matter what he does.
1 cor 1:18 the gospel is foolishness to unregenerates but it is the power of God unto salvation, the absolute sovereignty of God in salvation that saves not Human ability.
John 6 - Jesus said the flesh profits nothing. This is Jesus explanation why the multitudes left Him. They must first be drawn by the Father John 6:44, or no one can come unless granted by the Father 6:65.
Spiritually dead sinners do not come on their own. They must be drawn first, raised from the dead first Eph 2:1- He made us alive when we were dead in sin,... when we were dead not when able. Semi pelagians dont believe in any type of pre salvation grace or aid. According to L Flowers, sinners only need to hear the right information. Thats good enough grace because man can respond on his own. Hes not fully dead.
But why did Paul say He made us alive when we were dead in sin Eph 2:1. Jesus said the Father must draw you or no one can come John 6:44. No it takes more than hearing because we are dead. Dead means dead not just wounded.
Is Pelagian doctrine from hell still alive today?
WORD
Total depravity is heresy and must be rejected. The Church has officially condemned this evil doctrine.
You nailed it brother….they want you to believe man isn’t totally depraved to try to solidify their false doctrine of Freewill.
Well said. Glad someone on here has wisdom and spiritual discernment.
Amen!
”…he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life (because we are spiritually dead) to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.“
Romans 8
”And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive…”
Colossians 2:13
Being spiritually dead isn’t a question just for Calvinists- it’s a biblical truth no matter what soteriological perspective you have.
Im sorry but they are both wrong. Paul describes the heart of man. Its dangerous to say man alone have some good in them
Please elaborate on the danger. Dangerous to so called elect? If so, why? Dangerous to passed over reprobates? How so?
”But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, *I judge not mine own self.* For I know nothing by myself; *yet am I not hereby justified* : but he that judgeth me is the Lord. *Therefore judge nothing before the time* , until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.“
1 Corinthians 4:3-5
Even Calvin!!
This guy is false. “No man can come to me except the Father draw him”
And who does God draw and call?
1 Timothy 2:3-6
“3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for All, to be testified in due time,”
2 Corinthians 5:14-15, 19
"14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for ALL, then ALL died; 15 and He died FOR ALL, that those who live should live no loner for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again...19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation."
Titus 2:11
"11 For the Grace of God that Brings Salvation Has Appeared to ALL MEN."
John 12:32
"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL peoples to Myself.”
John 16:8
"And when He has come, He will convict the WORLD of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment"
Luke 5:32
"I have not come to call the righteous, but Sinners, to repentance."
Matthew 11:28
“Come to me, ALL who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.”
Luke 19:10
"for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save what which was lost." That is everyone, everyone is lost.
Calvinism is the lie.
@@JStevensdk7boom. well done
@@JStevensdk7obviously all doesn’t mean every single individual person on this earth, because everyone who is drawn by the Father is raised up on the last day, and we know not everyone is raised on the last day. Unless you’re a universalist? Knowing the Greek is important, the Bible wasn’t written in English.
@@KnightFel No it does, all means all, God calls and draws all, your falsely assuming the drawing and calling is effectual, it's not. The verse says "raise Him up" doesn't say raise all. Who is the "him"?
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
John 6:40 NKJV
The one who believes, and everyone and anyone can and has the ability per Kosmos Sozo John 3:17.
Please try harder.
“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.””
John 12:32
All men - how lovely!
He said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless it is granted to him by the Father.” John 6:65
"When I read the scriptures IN CONTEXT...." Spot on Alana! Once again, tulip is a beautiful flower, but bad theology.
Flesh-o-gesis
She said the Bible does not say God chose to save some before the foundation of the world. But it does. It says it literally and blatantly.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
@@aletheia8054 WORD
@@aletheia8054please read scriptures in context, and not through the man made philosophy of tulip. Why are these people chosen or not chosen? Look at the previous verse, some did not believe. Look at the very verse you quote, some believe. Those who believe are called by the gospel. TULIP is the eisegesis.
@@goodshorts Gods children believe because they were chosen. Duh
I’m the one that looks at the context not you.
Every verse in the Bible is connected to every other verse in the Bible. I look at the whole Bible.
“But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),”
Ephesians 2:4-5
I so appreciate your work & her honest testimony. Hopefully many more will leave this false teaching that impunes the nature & character of our Heavenly Father, whom sent His Son to redeem all that will simply receive His gift of salvation.
Preach the Gospel to Muslims in Iran. Tell them they have the ability to believe the Word of God and Jesus Christ as God incarnate. You'll quickly realize the truth of total depravity.
@@ManassehJones Hmm, I am in contact with a few different ministries that are in Muslim countries & have reached many of them for Christ. Maybe you deny Romans 1:16-17 & that God's word does return void & doesn't accomplish His work, that's a shame if so.
@@mikelyons2831 All Gods elect in false religions will believe and be brought out of their total depravity. Thats a very, very, tiny, few. The rest remain totally deprave. Self will cannot overcome total depravity in the face of the gospel. Its only a work of God. If you've preached in Muslim countries, you would know this.
@@ManassehJonesYou're just as brainwashed as the Muslims because here you are denying biblical Truth and instead choosing to believe the lies of demons. It's those demonic strongholds keeping you in the captivity of your religious pride and spiritual deadness. God is a million times greater than you know but you are spiritually blind and deceived into thinking you have it all but you are only seeing light shine on the floor through the keyhole and not ever opening the door.
When we say that man is depraved, we are not saying there is no good in man. What we are saying is that there is no good in man that pleases God.
What about born with a sin *nature?*
Unfortunately I don't think they believe in that either.
A nature to sin, not an inability to believe. Faith is NOT a work. Read your Bible without "hellp" from the johns
I am no calvinist, but i was amazed by this verse here:
"The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies." Psalms 58:3 KJV
Now, just because the wicked do as their father, the devil, does not mean God made them this way; because freewill is a part of us from within the womb.
Wrong! Who are the elect? Let's start with that
The ones God predestinated to be conformed to the image of Christ before the foundation of this world was created have you not read your Bible! If God did not choose to save a few everyone would go to hell!
@@artifacthunter1472 Amen, you are preaching to the choir. I agree with you. That's what the Bible says.
@@user-lh3uk6by3i Both Israel and the 12 Apostles were the elect, yet not all of Israel nor all Apostles saved. Election does not mean elected for salvation, it means election for service.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God
If Calvinism weren't so insulting to God it would be laughable.
could you please explain why? I have been a Calvinist for years and have never heard 1 good argument against it
You're an Armenian lol
@@HaddingtonJamesBearThe3rdJr. God is love and Just, in Calvinism there's no justice, God just randomly chose people to be saved unconditionally before the foundation of the world. So sin makes no sense. It would mean everything people do is the will of God. Also, Calvinists say that men can't have freewill else God is not in control, non-calvinist say God is in control because he can intervene whenever he wants despite our free will, so Calvinism limits God's sovereignty.
Ephesians 2 seems to be saying we were dead in sin. Jesus talked about not being born of the will of man in John 3. Yeah only God can do the miracle of raising those dead in sin and re-birthing them.
Prodigal son dead. Not Lazarus dead.
Calvin's predestined people to hell theology was condemned by the council of Trent.
You mean the Catholic council that condemned the Reformation?
Yeah but we don’t care what the council of Trent says. They’re an apostate church.
And? The RCC is corrupt, teaching all manner of bad doctrine.
Ephesians 2:1 (ESV): And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
The Jordan clown in this video is presently the front runner for this year's Andy Stanley Twist the Scriptures Award.
Total depravity doesn’t mean what you say it means. It means the total man is affected by the fall-his total being. Also, read Isaiah 53:6, Ephesians 2:1 & 2:5, Romans 3:23, Colossians 2:16, Romans 6:23, and on and on.
We are not born spiritually dead but alive and only die spiritually when we willfully sin. That is literally what the Bible says. Here it is in a Calvinist translation, but also in EVERY translation.
"I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me."
Romans 7:9-11 ESV
So the false doctrines of total depravity and original sin cannot exist in the same world as that Truth. These concepts came about to justify infant baptism and give the false church more power and control not because that's what the Bible says. 1600 years later you have the same demons of Calvinism leading the false converts and idolaters in Calvinism into the captivity of false religion and religious pride.
Jesus wants to know you and set you free but you refuse to believe Him at who He says He is. Repent of your unbelief and believe!
Tanner. If Total Depravity DID NOT exist, there would be no need for a TOTAL REBIRTH! You are entitled to your opinions, but Truth doesn't care about your opinions.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a 👉new creature👈: old things are passed away; behold, 👉ALL things are become new.👈
In response to the context of your plea for the elect to "repent of your unbelief and believe."
Not sure how an elect son of God, made an entirely new creature in Christ by the will and grace of God alone, posessed by the Holy Spirit and being conformed more into the image of He who lives in them, can repent and reverse that effectual calling and declare your gospel of Self Determinism. It was against our Self Determinism that we got saved by Gods grace.
So by what you say if a person went his whole life with out sinning he would then go on to heaven??? If that is so then Jesus would not have died for ALL. Every one is born on the way to hell. Every person born since Adam is a sinner. After Adam only Jesus has known no sin. The idea that we are born sinless is heresy. If we are born sinless then we are born Holy. If we are not born Holy then we are born sinful.
Apparently neither of you understood what I said at all. I even gave you the proof text to prove that we are born spiritually alive, but you both deny what the Bible says and neither of you provided any sort of biblical citation to prove that we are born spiritually dead or to prove total depravity or even born with sin.
This is Christianity 101. This is THE primary tenant of Christianity--that God took on flesh as Jesus and lived a sinless life as a man--as the only sinless man ever--and thus was the perfect lamb to pay for all the sin of the world.
I didn't say that we are holy when we are born. I said we are without sin and we are spiritually alive--our human spirit is alive. Then we die when we sin. When we are born again, our human spirit is brought back to life by the Holy Spirit. Literally exactly what I cited Paul saying.
Pre-fall Adam is not even called holy. Only God is holy--its why His righteousness had to be attributed to us, and why we had to be spiritually born again through His Spirit.
If your Jesus is the idol/false god of Calvinism then you aren't born again and you have a different spirit and believe a different gospel. That is what Paul tells us in Galatians. So if you deny these fundamental biblical truths and choose to trust on your false doctrines instead, then do you even have the Holy Spirit? Are you even born again?
@@tannerfrancisco8759 Born under 1st Adams federal headship dead unto God and alive unto sin. Born 100% Totally deprave of Truth or any autonomy any more.
Romans 5:13
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Romans 6:13
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are 👉alive from the dead👈, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Romans 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but👉 alive unto God👈 through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 7:9-10
👉For I was alive without the law once👈 (an infant) : but when the commandment came, sin revived, and 👉I died.👈 [10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Faith is a gift not of your own.
It's absolutely biblical
I'm confused. I have heard calvinists say that God determined we sin not that we have free will and there are some that say know, we choose to sin with our own free will to do so.
That to me shows that Calvinism is taken with eisegesis right there, no one can agree with them, not even themselves.
Your elevating man
Curious? How did he or she elevate man? God Sovereignly wrote & preserved His Word & they used their God given ability to read & comprehend it. Millions who boldly professes Jesus as Lord believe the text says what it says.
@@mikelyons2831 theyre not making man to sound as bad as what the bible says. We're born with a sin nature, our sin keeps us from God.
@@ethanlash914yeah, no duh. Literally no one is claiming that except the Calvinists falsely accusing actual believers of doing that. You'll understand when you actually trust on Jesus, get saved, and stop trusting in the false doctrines of unsaved, demon possessed men.
@@tannerfrancisco8759 this comment alone just shows the lack of knowledge of reformed theology. Have fun explaining to God why you had some innate good in you to choose him and why the other guy didnt. Have fun explaining to God how you used your "free will" to choose him, 50% you 50% God huh?
@@ethanlash914
FYI, it is not reformed theology, it's the wisdom of men.
I'd like to point out there's a reason Jesus was born of a virgin. He wasn't born of a man and woman, otherwisely he would have inherited the sin nature. Jesus was truly man but sinless (1 Peter 2:22), without inherent sin and without doing acts of sin. In Adam we all die, but all (believers) are made alive in Christ (Romans 15:22).
When one realizes by the Spirit of God the Truth of their total depravity, then the pleading for Gods mercy begins. No realization of total depravity, no pleading for mercy.
Amen. Humble yourself under the mighty hand of God. Let no one beguile you in a false humility.
Ha! The religious false humility of a Calvinist is the only humility they know. It's that religious pride demon masquerading as a counterfeit holy spirit that leads them so deeply into deception.
You people are spouting the lies of demons not the Truth of God. What your saying makes no sense. If you were totally depraved then God would NOT tell us a million times to choose Him and His ways. Those words would fall on deaf ears that cannot hear and would be void. There is ZERO biblical evidence for the false doctrine of total depravity. Yes, we are depraved and sinners incapable of reaching heaven through our own efforts, but that doesn't mean it is impossible for us to acknowledge that and instead choose to believe God which is exactly what God says over and over and over. The entire theme of the Bible is that you can believe and choose God's ways and then He will save you.
But it's why you'll always have doubt, always lack assurance, and always trust in your works (perseverance of the saints) to get you to heaven rather than on Jesus--because you don't believe God--or you wouldn't be Calvinists. I have zero doubt, I have 100% assurance because I'm believe God at His word and I have His indwelt Spirit bearing witness to me that I am a son of God. You only have a religious pride demon keeping you in captivity. There really is more! The Holy Spirit of the Bible is literally real and does what He says He does.
So when you finally repent of your unbelief and believe what God says then you will receive the real Spirit of Truth and Jesus will deliver you from your religious pride demons, and you'll be saved. Or you'll continue to harden your hearts unto death. The choice IS yours.
But if total depravity was true, then pleading for God's mercy something no one would ever do.
@@awesomefacepalm that’s correct. If it wasn’t for the mercy and grace of God, they wouldn’t.
ONLY the elect will REALIZE their total depravity and plea for mercy. Like the publican.
Do you have to teach a child to hit? Or to not hit? Do you have to teach a child to share? Or not share? Do you have to teach a child to talk back ? Or not talk back? Children are born innocent but that natural inclination is there from the beginning! David said even in his mothers womb, should we erase that verse? And the Bible does say we were dead in our sins and God made us alive to righteousness in Christ! It says that wether we can accept that or not!
“Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,”
II Timothy 1:8-9 NKJV
“Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.””
John 3:4-8 NKJV
“And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
II Thessalonians 2:11-12 NKJV
“Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”
Romans 8:7-8 NKJV
“For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.”
Romans 8:5-9
”And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience- among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved-“
Ephesians 2:1-5 It’s pretty clear
In my view it is maybe universal depravity but not total depravity. Our underlying being is ultimately good, it is original sin that separates us from God, but that doesn’t mean we’re totally depraved.
God doesn't think like man, and you couldn't see depraved. man is shaped in iniquity;and in sin did my mother conceive me. Ps. 51:5, " The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked... "
Jeremiah 17:9: "We are all as an unclean thing, and our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. Isaiah 64:6. also you can't change yourself Jeremiah 13:23: also God is immutable. God chose Israel and no other nation. God told Saul to kill off the Amalekites Man, Women, child, and sucklings, and all of there live stock. 1 Samuel 15:3: did any of the Israelites say " ah, Lord what you are asking us to do is not right.? " Didn't he judge the world with the flood? Jesus said it out of his own mouth " you have not chosen me but I have chosen you. John 15:16: Jesus also said
" have not I chosen you twelve and one of you is a devil. " John 6:70:
" I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, he that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heal against me. John 13:18: and didn't Jesus pray for His own or for the world? John 17: shows that Jesus prayed for those whom the Father has given him and not the world, so then how is the word " world " used?. no man can come to Christ except the Father draw him. John 6:44 can you explain that sir and the Lady laughing? or are you there like Judas, " that the scripture may be fulfilled. that's a scary place to be period. God isn't fair, if he was we'd all be in hell. he's showing mercy to who so ever He wills. cause if he died on the cross for all of mankind everyone would be saved. We all must accept everything God says and does without murmuring and complaining. Ps. 25:9-10: be careful I hope your not hear to fulfill the scriptures. GOD is all sovereign.
“And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.””
John 6:65 case closed
The way I’m seeing it is that we are made in the image of God, meaning if he can choose, so can we. He just happens to know when a person has made their choice
We are born spiritually separate from God but still made in His image created to be eternal, with the abilities to think and choose, see our need hear His voice and ask for a new heart from God.
So the scriptures were wrong when they say , there are NONE who seek after God..."
“For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.”
Romans 5:19
If we’re not going this way then how did we become “by NATURE, children of wrath”? (Ephesians 2:3)
Romans 3:9-18 ESV
[9] What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, [10] as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; [11] no one understands; no one seeks for God. [12] All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” [13] “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” [14] “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” [15] “Their feet are swift to shed blood; [16] in their paths are ruin and misery, [17] and the way of peace they have not known.” [18] “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
John 6:44 ESV
[44] No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
Jude 1:4 for certain individuals whose condemnation was written long ago have secretly slipped in among you
It doesn't say it EXPLICITY, only IMPLICITLY. Calvanism explains the logical reality. God is omniscient, and not only knows events but every mundane action you take in your day to day. And since he knows everything, he knew when you were going to heaven or hell before the universe as we know it was created, therefore you were chosen by god. You were chosen by god to go to heaven, to hell, etc.
Calvinism shows the ugly truth behind The logic.
I mean, it’s only ugly if you worship the illogical thing known a “free will” as a god.
Well, Christ Himself only prayed for the ones the father would give to Him. John 17 :9.
Jesus said none are good, only God is good. ALL are born dead in their sins. Scripture states this clearly.
I love it what a non-Calvinist brings in the term “context.” It’s an invitation to exegesis! At that point, the non-Calvinist begins to prooftext, because they cannot stay in one text for long and abandon the context. 🤣
There is no one righteous
No not one
No one that seeks after God.
Spirituality dead in trespasses and iniquity. She has went to Jacobus Arminius side now. I think it's encoded though.
So neither of them got to read Ephesians 2:1-10 or John 6:63 where Jesus said that it is the Spirit gives life, the flesh or human nature is of no use.?
I think predestination vs free will is a fake dichotomy, people just don't understand how God knows everything before hand and yet we still have free will. If a seed chose before it was planted what type of tree it is and then it is planted it is predestined and has free will.
Talk about the blind leading the blind. When Adam sinned it was passed on to all humanity. They need to do more study.. it's all there. Romans 5:12-14
I find it very interesting the resolve people have on all sides. However, is there someone willing to make more than an assertion about what they believe the Bible says. Our lack of seeing things does not make it false, it’s your failure to recognize your presuppositions.
My biggest issue with the provisionist movement is that there is a narrow view of how the provisionist doctrine is applied I would love to here how your view holds up against something other than Calvinist and to me if it is not applicable against other false world views then don’t have a positive position just one that isn’t Calvinist
So if I am not totally depraved ,then that means I have some righteousness in me apart from God that He finds acceptable?
So your saying the devil wins sometimes and it’s us who chooses our salvation?
John Calvin preached the Truth, and it's a testimony to our depraved nature that we reject it as these two.
Uh, have you guys even read the book of Romans?
Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Sinners from birth, you must be reborn, we are the stock of Adam and so we must accept Christs substitutionary atonement for our sins.
This is open theism. God is beholden to humanity’s free will and He learns? If He chooses, then that’s not fair, they say. Read from Genesis to Revelation. It’s all about God choosing. It is essential we understand the doctrine of God. If you understand all of that, you will stop elevating man and the misguided notion that we naturally love God, and you will Elevate God and realize that He is merciful to have snatched you out of the fire, and united you to His dear Son. Soli Deo Gloria!
This guy is a true politician. Instead of just preaching the Gospel (the only message God has promised to bless) he insist on posting videos that do nothing but cause believers to fight and argue with eachother. Which ultimately divides the church making them weaker against the attacks of the enemy.
totally depraved people: "what? no, im not depraved, im just kinda bad"
Why didnt these 2 people give scripture 2 prove there belief
I'm sure that the structure of every video is meant to be a complete exegesis of the Bible. To be fair, some conversations are between two or more people that are already on the same page so not everything needs to be expounded fully since some assumptions can be made. This is how conversation works.
Nobody comes to Jesus unless God draws him.
I agree with you completely.
God wants none to perish, but afore time he determined that some will?
Doesn't that make God a liar?
I used to be a Calvinist for over 20 year. I was convinced that Calvinism and its TULIP were biblical. But it turns out it is anything but biblical. Calvinism's authority is not Scripture. Its authority is outside of the Scriptures built on Maniachian Gnosticism, Pelagian presuppositions of Free Will, and Augustinian Predestination and it must search the Bible, taking verses out of context, inventing new definitions for biblical words that were never intended, plus a bunch of word salad, in order to support the unbiblical view of Calvinism. The whole TULIP is built from the T, Total Depravity, a myth, and the ULIP necessarily flows from T. Lordship Salvation, a tenet of Calvinism defined by the P in TULIP, Perseverance of the Saints, is a another gospel, it is works salvation, and salvation is by faith PLUS something else, which contradicts the Bible. If you think that you are smart and that you would never be deceived by false teachers, then please reconsider as I did. I was fooled, and you too can be fooled too when your beliefs are based on authority outside of the Bible. We must never ever ever put the words and teachings of man above what the Bible says. We are in serious danger when we elevate popular Calvinist Lordship Salvation teachers like John McArthur and John Piper and RC Sproul above the authority of the Bible, thinking that the words of fallen men can not teach serious, dambable error.
I see things quite differently, salvation is of God not man! We do have a choice, but why would you choose Hell over Heaven?
I could list many verses that talk about how the natural man is incapable of submitting to God, and cannot understand the Gospel.
Romans 3: 9-20, Romans 5:12-21, Ephesians 2:1-10
We hate God and love our sin apart from the working of the Holy Ghost. That is not illogical, it is biblical. How can a man in and of himself change his own heart of stone to a heart of flesh. He can’t, he needs something outside of himself. that is, Gods effectual grace, working in time (ie. the word of God, a preacher, or other means of grace) to bring about this change.
Jesus says in John 6 that no one can come to the son unless they are drawn by the father. that is Trinitarian language in the working out of salvation. which is something you can not confirm if you hold to your current position my brother/sister.
i hope this is helpful in someway, even if you disagree. God bless
Is this guy really forgetting that when Jesus speaks to dead people they become alive? This is why some people that are “dead” mustn’t hear so that they do not become alive. “And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: that seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.”
Mark 4:11-12 KJV
Total Depravity is true, just not to point of what Calvinists conclude. The Bible definitely supports total depravity of the flesh, but it doesn't support total depravity of basic human creation.
So is this man implying that original sin is a Calvinist belief? It doesnt sound like hes talking about total depravity, it sounds like hes talking about original sin.
Words mean something. In general one must employ the grammatico-historical hermeneutic in studying the Bible. Any other approach yields stupid outcomes such as universalism and Arminian/Provisionism (A/P). This lack of proper hermeneutic is much of the reason the A/Ps do not understand, and sometimes do not even know the Gospel in the first place. Bad hermeneutics gives birth to the prosperity, name it and claim it, A/Ps of this world.
Proper hermeneutics have with the power of God's Holy Spirit contributed to the building of the true Gospel in the ministries of folks like Paul, Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Owen, John Bunyan, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, RC Sproul, Jonathan Edwards, Richard Sibbes, etc., etc. The fact that the A/Ps have no all star lineup of powerful ministries such as this is a testamemt to their lack of biblical education and general resistance to the truths of God's revealed word.
You would think that some A/Ps would see the difference in theologies and who shaped and followed them and realize that there is something fatal in the A/P view. Actually, I was one of the people (and the number is rapidly growing worldwide) who was awakened to God's overwhelming powerful truths having served the golden calf of A/P in my earlier years.
she said jesus didnt die only for some , the bible says jesus did die for many (some) not all ......
Yup exactly, why the heck would the most recited Bible verse be, “For God so loved the WORLD that he gave his only begotten son, that WHOSOEVER believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life”
Luke 9:60
60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
Your a dead man if wasn’t for God, who gives life to whoever He wants
So when God said to Adam if he sinned he'd die, and that was a spiritual death totally separated from God. Your saying this develops over time and that we're not dead in sin when we are born. Interesting.
Even Adam and Eve were capable of sinning before they fell; otherwise they would've never disobeyed God and ate the fruit.
How much temptation do you think was in the garden of Eden? They were the two only humans on the earth, and they had one commandment. There weren't too many ways to fall, but they found one. Free will is to blame.
Likewise, children need to be told what they cannot do or they will just do it. It doesn't mean they're evil from birth. They're evil when they choose to disobey.