What Is Total Depravity - Debunking Error
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- čas přidán 14. 05. 2022
- Unveiling the truth behind the intricate world of Calvinism! In this enlightening video, we fearlessly tackle the question of, "What is total depravity (or total inability)" and its pivotal role in the Calvinistic framework. Join us as we meticulously analyze the teachings of the renowned Augustine and the Calvinistic confession, debunking error, and shedding light on the concept of common guilt and native depravity. Prepare to have your understanding of free will questioned as we challenge the imposed teaching of total inability into a biblical understanding of the fall of man. This thought-provoking discussion promises to broaden your horizons and challenge "conventional" wisdom. Don't miss out on this questioning exploration of theology - hit that subscribe button to embark on this transformative journey with us!
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Young people coming out against this blasphemy (Calvinism) is REFRESHING! Thank you from an old codger that is a Bible reading/believing disciple of Jesus.
Thanks for the encouragement
Young people are almost coming out supporting all types of Sin as well. Age means nothing concerning Sin. Young or old, all are capable of wickedness and they cannot stop with accepting Jesus.
Young people aren't coming out of calvinism, there running to it from such non biblical nonsensical teachings as we find here in this video@@GodsResistancePress
blasphemy? really?
@@tomtemple69 It is irreverent to twist God's word to fit one's narrative.
So, yes, I would call it blasphemy.
Thank you for your video. As a Calvinist, I was encouraged that you confirm that the Bible says that none seek after God. I am discouraged that you did not explain how this does not support Calvinism. It is one thing to give interpretations of other scriptures that support your side, but it is important to say what the Calvinist’s interpretations of their proof-texts should be. How do you interpret “no one seeks after God, no not one”. I have other verses as well, but I want to focus on one at a time.
Yes they do say that God determines every sin that we commit. John Piper says in a sermon that God determines what each scrabble letter comes out of the bag because he knows who needs to win, then he juxtaposes that with a man who rapes a young girl and says that if she does not accept the fact that God decreed that man to rape her she will lose God forever. That’s the lunacy that Calvinism is, it’s Greek mythology and it appeals to the prideful religious minds of many people. Calvinism is from the one who roams the earth like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour
According to Piper, Romans 9 is itself a roaming lion, seeking whomever it may devour.
He said he wrote as much in his notes while in class learning about calvinism.
That exact Calvinist attitude is what birthed the current woke heresies too
Indeed he devours much
So God determines child sex trafficking? Surely, you jest.
@@rhitccdsccs3946 Welcome to Calvinism!
Great summary! Just one thing: I and my fellow team members have collected dozens of quotes by noted Calvinists stating their doctrine that God does, in fact, cause evil. From Calvin himself saying God doesn't merely permit, but authors evil and all evildoers are forced to do evil by God; to Piper saying God is responsible for every besetting sin; to White saying if God didn't decree evils like the rape of a child then that evil has no meaning; to Sproul Jr saying God created sin.
Theistic determinism taken to its logical conclusion. Think of every evil impulse, thought, word, and deed done by every person since the Adam and Eve. If theistic determinism is true, then the god of Calvinism is a horrific monster that is more evil than the sum of all of the evil that has ever been actualized in man from the beginning. Worse, the Calvinist god then assigns an eternity of suffering and torment to certain individuals who had been condemned before they did anything wrong that the Calvinist god effectually determined that they would eventually do to "deserve" their eternal suffering and torment in Hell. That is not the God of the Bible. Such an evil god could only be considered holy and righteous and worshipped in the minds of men and women brainwashed by Calvinism. Very sick stuff, and I'm relieved I'm no longer a Calvinist and i can read the Bible with an understanding of who God really is
@@zebra2346 You already know they'll say you were clearly never really a Calvinist, and you just don't understand Calvinism! 🤣
Do you have a link to that list?
@@scottthong9274Of course, because we don't have that Gnosticism flowing through our blood like the Calvinists do. They're so enlightened, and the rest of us are just plain dumb
Isaiah 45:7:
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Presented very well and succinct. Thank you for sharing🙏🏼💟✝️
Glad you enjoyed it. Thank you for the encouragement!
Thanks brother God bless you
"EVERY man at his BEST state is altogether VANITY".
Cool story, bro. Everyone who does good is righteous, and everyone who does evil is of the devil.
Imagine calling yourself a faithful Christian, and yet believing that God determines all sin,and that He caused his children to be born unable to believe.
who are the clay to tell the potter what he is to do
How many people do you know…KNEW Christ at their birth? How many kids in elementary school were filled with the Holy Spirit? How many high school student fully accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior? How many College students believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior? How many of your coworkers believe in Jesus Christ? How many AMERICANS willingly accept Jesus Christ as their Savior?
"He caused his children to be born unable to believe."
wait u think that everyone is a child of God?
It’s true lunacy.
Calvinists worship a twisted kind of sovereignty while shredding Gods character
@@jesusiscoming6843 who are the clay who tell the other clay, what the potter does with the clay because they think they are VIP clay🙄🤪
Such a good thorough teaching! The fruit of Calvinism for those who "attempt" to live by it is hopelessness, despair and nihilism. It is unbiblical to its core. Finding a church which is not some way reformed is very difficult.
As a non-Calvinist, but having grown up in a VERY Calvinistic church, you’re just wrong. Those believers weren’t full of hopelessness and despair. You’re just making stuff up
@@nathan1sixteen No sir! I'm glad that you grew up with a great and positive experience; however, living with the teaching of divine determinism and believing it and then to live life with one horrific life experience after the other and to be told by the pastor, "it's because it glorifies God" is horrible. Why because it's been determined by God to happen. And there's no reason to pray because nothing is going to change because God has already predetermined that it will happen. Until you live underneath the teaching of determinism and you believe it to the core of your being, and you have 9 or more catastrophic things happen systematically in your life, then it really makes it hard for you to speak on this even though your experience showed you otherwise. I am not alone in what my husband and I experienced with this theological belief. There are many, many others who testify to the same thing. Your experience is your experience. I wouldn't question that. But sir, your experience does not equate to proof that gives you the right to say to me "you're just making stuff up." Divine determinism is simply fatalism and it leads to hopelessness and despair...that is, if you truly believe that the doctrine is true.
I would say it divides people in two camps. Those who really want to serve God in earnest easily get to a place of despair because they feel like they can't ever live up to God's absolute standard. They question whether they really are one of the elect and live wondering whether they determined to hell or determined to heaven. The other camp thinks God's righteousness was imputed to them so it doesn't matter how they live because Jesus paid it all. These end up being very careless in their walk with God and excuse their lack of holiness (heart and life) because Jesus obeyed for them.
@@GodsResistancePress yes! I think the "extremes" are wrong. One side ends up "walking" in legalism and the other in "license." "For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another." (Galatians 5:13)
@@sharonlouise9759
The Orthodox Churches and Catholic Church reject calvinism completely as it's a man made doctrine that makes God the author of evil.
Remember God is Love!! He doesn't create men just to damn them for his glory.
ATB
My rebuttal to total depravity would include Ezekiel 18:20 The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.
This is a clear passage, thanks for sharing!
At the same time doesn’t God mention to be punishment of GENERATIONS in the Old Testament. Do you guys even understand what Jesus was talking about in the end times? The Harvest? The Mustard Seed parable?
@@sntmdsa3628 Could you restate your question in a different way?
Let's put it simply. Total depravity, or the heresy of pelagianism. Which are you? Do you believe in a sin nature? If you do, then you believe in total depravity, whether you want to accept the terminology or not. Total depravity simply states that we have a sin nature, due to Adam's sin (Paul speaks to this), and every part of our nature/being has been contaminated by sin, to the point that our whole being and will is enslaved by sin. (As Paul said, we are slaves of sin.) Once we are saved, we become slaves of righteousness. Total depravity doesn't mean the guilt of Adam's sin, or even Adam's sin, but speaks to sin entering the world through what Adam did (as Paul says), and through sin came death, and it passes to each of us in the form of our sinful nature. For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Jesus isn't a part of the all since Jesus is God in human flesh, God incarnate.
There is none righteous, no not one, no one does good, no one seeks after God
Total depravity leads to Determinism.
Determinism means:
1. God decreed all things including evil for his glory.
2. God then enables/allows people to choose wrong Gods, not Him the one true God.
3. God then writes the commandments, commanding people to follow them, the first one being there shall be no other Gods but Him.
What’s worse is Total depravity changes the Gospel message because God has to choose you and give you belief because you are unable to believe yourself.
The Calvanistic version of the Gospel is “Jesus died for you, if God regenerates you and gives you the ability to believe, then congratulations you’re saved and are one of the elect”.
If you ask a Calvanist why they don’t preach the gospel this way they say “that’s not the Gospel”. (But that is exactly what they believe). So they don’t preach it the way they believe it because it’s not the Gospel?
Any belief that changes Gods character and twists the Gospel is by default a false teaching. Calvinism not only does this but it also lessens Christ sacrifice and resurrection for all, and it takes the focus of Christ alone for salvation by introducing the idea that God elects for Salvation.
Calvinism must be avoided.
Spot on my friend! Thank you for this thoughtful response!
Nailed it
@@GodsResistancePress Really, you believe that there will be eternal conscious torment? Even if Calvinism is false, again, there will be unsaved people and the real question is from where faith comes? Why there is a group of people that don't believe or refuse to believe and the group that believes? What is going on?
Are you open to correction?
@@user-mu8uu6us1sthe Calvinist argument of why some believe and others don’t, is not an argument. Scripture from start to finish is based on the fact that some believed and others didn’t. Why? Because they had choice and always have had choice.
God Himself commands, even pleads people to believe. The reformed theology says that anyone who doesn’t believe is decreed by God not to believe.
This is not biblical and ignores Gods requirement for people to believe.
It is problematic for God to command repentance to those who are "unable" to repent.
Exactly. Paul preaching on Mars Hill
Yes. It would make the offer of salvation a dishonest one.
Matthew 19: 23~26
no its not
"Lord command what that will and give me the power to obey"
Not it isn't. It is fine for God to command whatever He wants. A simple question for you to consider: Who can claim standing and position to judge God? You? Based off of this, God is evil for sending anyone to hell, because He commanded them to repent, and they weren't able to bring themselves to do that.
As an Eastern Christian, I reject Augustinian anthropology (transmission of Adam’s sin, etc.) and lean more to the teachings of our holy father among the saints, John Chrysostomos, Archbishop of Constantinople.
Get after it! Well done!
Great critique of total depravity. Roman 5 teaches universalism/ultimate reconciliation.
Right so Paul changed his mind by Romans 9.
@@PhilipBaker-sf4yv Paul quoted Hosea and Isaiah in Romans 9 which are two books which teach universalism in the OT. So he was just expanding his argument in chapter 9. He ultimately has mercy on all even though there are temporary judgements on some.
@@warrenroby6907 instead of trying to twist the scriptures just at least be honest to yourself and admit you dont really believe them
@@PhilipBaker-sf4yv Romans 11:32 at the end of Paul's discourse is another verse supporting the reconciliations of all. It is plain and simple. There is no twisting involved.
I wholly reject universalism.
Just look at the constant pleading God does for Israel in the Old Testament. How could anyone believe He did it knowing he made them that way instead of giving them free will, which there is tons of evidence for in the Old and New Testament? Makes absolutely no sense.
Good point!
Terrible Point. God didn’t make anyone that way. God always gives them a warning and the Law. God warned Adam and Eve. God warned in the Old Testament but man has chooses to do the opposite
@sntmdsa3628 You read it wrong. Some believe he did make them that way (Calvinism). I'm saying he didn't. He always gave them a choice.
Matthew 28 v 18-20.
Mark 16:16
Acts 2 38
John 3:3.
May The Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Bless Y'all.
Thank you for the many practical references to Scripture that we can use to disprove the heresy and blasphemy that is Calvinism. May God prosper and further your ministry.
Thank you for your encouragement and kind words!
Great video, brother... just a comment on Psalm 51.
Psalm 50:6 (LXX) Behold, for in lawlessnesses (PLURAL) I was seized/captured (συλλαλέω), even in sins (PLURAL) my mother conceived me.
David was using poetic hyperbole, writing from the perspective of his infant son conceived with Bathsheba through adultery (2Samuel 11:1-5) who was very sick (2Samuel 12:15) and condemned to die for David’s sin (2Samuel 12:13-14). According to the title, David wrote this WHEN Nathan the prophet had confronted him about Bathsheba (Psalm 51; 2Samuel 12:1-15) at which time, Nathan told David that the child she was about to give birth to would die (2Samuel 12:14).
2Samuel 12:14 (NASB95) “However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die.”
Therefore, David wrote this during the seven days that he was fasting and praying on behalf of the sick child (2Samuel 12:15-18).
What really pushed me out of Calvinism was their doctrine of reprobation. There is no escape but to abandon such a horrible teaching. "Total depravity" was the second teaching. Some find the way out faster and easier but it tooked many years to give up this deterministic and negative system.
As far as I'm concerned, Calvinism can be adequately summed up in one word ¬> _incoherent_.
It can also be described as immature.
And that's being polite and reasonable.
Human nature can be adequately summed up in one word->Wicked
@@sntmdsa3628 You'll get no argument from me on that !
Albert Barnes should have known Isaiah 53: "And the Lord laid on him the iniquity of us all"
And he
"hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him"
If the word imputation does not figure its significance is there.
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psa 51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
Psa 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Psa 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
Looking back on it, I believe the reason these Calvinists have become so popular over the last 20 years is because they were the most outspoken against heresies. It drew in people like me, who takes seriously Biblical doctrines. But, just like those in authority over science, media, health care and education are considered to be correct because of their position, the same is true of many who have doctrites in Seminary and have written books. Calvinism appeals to intellectual people because it is impossible to grasp logically. Seems backwards, but I think it makes them feel smarter by teaching this doctrine. Perhaps an over reaction to the emotional based theologies, is the purely intellectual theology. God gave us a heart and a mind. The 2 should balance each other out.
General, perhaps, but not total.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 2 Timothy 4 v3. Today this scripture is being fullfilled in your ears
Calvinism, when quoting Romans 8:30..."and those whom he predestined he also called"...YOU need to go back to verse 29, "For those whom he FOREKNEW he also predestined to be conformed..." In other words, God called us because he already knew we would believe so he predestined us to be the image of his Son and do good works. Verse 29 seems to be left out when quoting Romans 8:30 regarding Calvinist's? God Bless
Regarding the comment at about 9 minutes, funnily enough, I heard a great sermon by John McArthur where he addressed the issue of infant death and eternity, and he stated very clearly that he believed *all babies would be accepted by God into heaven.*
I listened to this sermon years ago, before I realized that he was a Calvinist. I wonder if he has changed his stance on this subject in recent years? 🤔
Babies haven’t really done anything but cry and crawl.
On the flip side, infants “not capable” of exercising “free will” are ultimately doomed. Likewise, all persons incapable of rational thought are also likewise doomed.
@@helpmelearn1181 God can choose them to be saved.
Sadly, I haven't found a good preaching church that isn't reformed/calvinist
Thanks for taking the time to share your message.
What do “there is none that seeketh after God” in Romans 1:11, and “no man come to me except the Father which hath sent me draw him” in John 6:44 mean in relation to Calvinist ideas or your your ideas against Calvinism?
If God commands us to repent, will he not first draw us to his Son and give us ability (Philippians 2:13) to do so (turn to his Son)?
And about people (including sinners) being able to do good: did Jesus mean “no one is good but God” in Luke 18:19, or am I misunderstanding?
Please share scriptures that may support your thoughts that mentally incapable people and infants are exempted from punishment of sin. If God commands all man to repent, are the mentally incapable people not commanded? Please share your references. If “God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham” (Matthew 3:9), is he not able to reach the mentally incapable man’s heart?
Thanks.
From someone who is calvinistic, the last verse tells us why no one seeks after God. They have each gone their own way. So its not like they did something they didn't WANT to do. They went their own way. God was not in that direction.
I have a question for evangelical and reformers; When you take a look at the pattern created by the apostles in the first century - When you take notice that the Christ very clearly created an organization and promised to be the head of that organization until the end times, Do you think you are part of that organization?
I only ask because you specifically claimed you want to be part of a bible based church.
Do you actually believe that all of these disperate churches of separate denominations that all claim to be Christian are united under Christ ?
I'm not even talking about the ones with severe doctrinal differences, Because they are obviously not united. Just all these small little churches that you think are bible based. Do You think they resemble the christian congregation of the first and second century?
Sadly, I do not think we resemble the christian congregation of the first century. Paul did say there would be heresies (divisions) so that we would know who is right and who is wrong. I wish it weren't that way but I'm not sure how to practically deal with that now that thousands of years have passed and there have been so many different teachings espoused.
The Scriptures give a couple examples of depravity but leave it largely undefined. Calvinists came along and defined Total Depravity by the Scriptures.
In 1 John 2, total depravity describes those who:
(1) are of the world;
(2) do not have the love of God in them;
(3) are selfish;
(4) are greedy; and
(5) are prideful.
In Romans 8, total depravity describes those who:
(1) have a mind that is set on the flesh;
(2) are hostile to God;
(3) do not, and cannot, submit to God’s law; and
(4) cannot please God.
In Ephesians 2, total depravity describes those who:
(1) follow the course of this world,;
(2) follow the prince of the power of the air,
(3) live in the passions of their flesh;
(4) carry out the desires of the body and the mind;
(5) are by nature children of wrath.
Many other Scripture are added to summarize what Calvinists call their Doctrine of Total Depravity.
Young man, you’ve got a lot to learn…
Isa 49:1 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
I can agree him just if his understanding of total depravity is correct. First of all , total depravity never suggested that Christian outward behavior is better than the nonbeliever. Or nonbeliever just bad and terrible person. It just never said that. But TP suggested our position before God. For exp, if today I am a Christian, I did something great, but I give back the honor to God Himself who provide all the source and power for me to succeed, this is right in the eyes of God . On the contrary , it we done something good but we praise for our own strength, that means we steal away the glory of God, that is evil in the eyes of God.
We need to go into a deeper meaning before we rebuke them by the surface meaning of the word.
And thanks for trying
I thought came to me...
In total depravity Calvinism teaches that we are guilty for Adam's sin and therefore born with a sin nature, ie sinners, because we came through Adam, we were basically the sperm in his sack, in other words, and his sperm was in Adam. We literally come from his loins. Therefore we are guilty for his sin. Calvinists say that they believe that Jesus is 100% human, that means he comes from Adam too, and that means that the egg in which he grew that was inside of Mary his mother was also in Adam, therefore through Mary, Jesus is guilty for Adam's sin too if we are, or He isn't 100% human. In fact He isn't human at all, because even if He was only 50% human He would still be born 50% guilty of Adam's sin and 50% sinner, or He isn't human at all. You can't have it both ways, either He is 100% human and we're all born in the same way and if we're born guilty of Adam sin and we're born sinners then so is Jesus if for no other reason than through Mary. Or none of us are born guilty of Adam's sin and none of us are born sinners.
Us being born NOT GUILTY for Adam's sin is literally supported by God Himself in Ezekiel 18:20 ... The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
Wait, you believe you can lose your salvation? So you believe in faith + maintaining with good works = eternal life in Christ ?
@@SalzausmErd "That does not mean God condones us to continue living in sin, though! If a person does do that, they have not yet been converted and filled with the Holy Spirit, regenerated." Of course, God does not condone continuing living in sin, people are not saved on the basis they can continue in sin with no change. What you're saying is "they were never saved to begin with" - but this is not the same thing as "one who can LOSE their salvation".
rejecting Calvinism means rejecting eternal security and affirming you can lose your salvation....
because saying you chose to be saved and then saying you can't lose salvation means that you lose the free will to lose salvation even tho you entered by free will.... it's totally inconsistent
keeping pulling the thread of an antiCalvinist and you get to the works righteousness of Rome...
they say "sola fide" and reject Rome, yet their soteriology is identical to Romes... "cooperating with grace" synergistic man's inward righteousness
Council of Orange condemns the heresies of this guy
Amen
Thanks
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you *life and death* blessing and cursing: therefore *choose life* that both thou and thy seed may live:
{Deuteronomy 30:19}
What about Ephesians 2:1-10?
2nd law of thermodynamics
Thanks for the input
Isa 48:8 Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb.
Listening to you I'm more convinced than ever about the truth of the notion of Total Depravity.
Let’s each study and be fully persuaded in our own minds. The most important thing is, “Are we a new creation in Christ? Has he given us victory over sin or is sin still our master?”
You are not “convinced” of anything, nor are your thoughts your own. Those attributes belong to those who advocate free will therefore you embrace total depravity because before you were born God decreed you to believe such. Let’s keep it consistent bro. 👍
@@kevinkleinhenz6511 Mindless consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Or so said Governor Jerry Brown back in the 1970's.
But seriously, what people misunderstand is that predestination and election are more like being born to an inheritance, and it's not at all like predeterminism and living out a fate carved in stone from eternity past.
You can receive a lot of inheritance from your father, you could look and act like him, and receive his property when he dies, but that doesn't mean he has predetermined all your thoughts and actions, you would still have your own free will.
@@kevinkleinhenz6511
If you notice how Romans 8 puts it, it says that the elect are predestinated to be conformed to the image of God's Son. So it's not like a mechanical predeterministic fate, but more like inheriting traits and stuff from your father. Even if you tell your father, "I want to be like you, dad," you're still your own person who has to make up his own mind. Even if your father loves you and is able to make all things work for your good.
Romans 8:
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Loll same
Psa 22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
(“…and NONE can KEEP alive HIS OWN soul.” It would appear that when we CAN NOT even keep our own soul alive how can anyone claim to MAKE ALIVE their own soul through the power of their own will?
Psa 22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
Psa 22:31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.
no one says that they make themselves alive through the power of their own will. That's called a strawman fallacy. Accepting a gift does NOT make you the author of that gift. Duh.
Where does the Bible say app babies go to heaven?
David mentions it in 2 Samuel 12.
How is a fallen spiritual condition (that is, depravity) passed on *genetically*, as some Calvinists say it is? I'm speaking BIOLOGICALLY, you know? Do they believe there is a depravity-gene? (I'm asking with all seriousness.)
This is a good question.
I'm not pretending to know the full dynamics behind how this is, but our spiritual separation from God is affected by the choice of our sin.
While sin is a physical action, it has an effect on our spirit man. We are after all made in God's image, and are a body, soul and spirit. The choice of sin fractures this relationship with God, because he is spirit. So by nature, we take on a brokenness that innately separates our spirit from His. While this may appear biological, in fact it is a spiritual identity that becomes marred... Soon after birth one makes choice according to this nature that will break relationship with God, and only by grace through faith in Jesus Christ can this be reconciled.🙏
Not sure if this helps...
@@SheepDog1974 I agree with what you said, but I think you misunderstood my question! Let me try to reword it this way: How is a person's SPIRITUAL condition (for instance, Adam's) passed down to the next generation? Some Calvinists say that depravity is an inherited condition, as though Adam's DNA has a "spiritual depraved" gene that is passed down. But that is scientifically ridiculous, isn't it? and sounds like reasoning of the Dark Ages. (I think it was Augustine (c. 400) who said the act of sexual intercourse, even between married couple, is inherently sinful because it passes sin to the next generation.)
I believe I understood your question. And while I am not a calvinist, humanly speaking our nature is broken by the sin of Adam (call it a spiritual gene if you wish) and we are seperated from God.
The Augustine view does not seem accurate (if in fact that's what he said).
This issue with Calvinism is not the state of our spiritual separation from God, but our "inability" to be able to respond to the gospel truth by faith - without God's decree... This is the point of this video.
When Adam was deprived of the Spirit after he sinned in the garden the result was depravity. All his offspring, never being in the garden, also are born deprived of the Spirit and therefore are also depraved until the Spirit radically renews us.
That’s an attempt at answering your question but may have holes in it. I find it’s easy to get lost when you drill into the minutiae and end up missing the first for the trees.
@@GodsResistancePress Thanks. Yes, I quite often loose sight of the forest because I tend to overthink things!
However, I've learned over my many years that it's much, much better to ask questions when things aren't clear, rather than ignore them and hope it'll all make sense later.
What text of Scripture do you go to to explain to someone what effect Adam's disobedience had on his actual nature, and how exactly does this effect get "passed down" to everyone else? Is it passed down genetically, like red hair or blue eyes are? That seems quite untenable to me because a spiritual trait or condition can't be biologically inherited.
I won't press the issue here any more; I was just hoping that maybe you knew more than I. Thank you for responding!
You have stated that the Bible doesn't state that we don't have free will. Perhaps you can quote a verse that states that we do have free will. I am not talking about verses that speak of choices being set before sinners. No one questions whether sinners are able to choose freely, voluntarily and meaningfully whatever we desire most at any given time.
Thank you for your cordial response. Though I do not doubt your love for God or your motives I do disagree with your premise. You are looking, if I'm not mistaken, and correct me if I'm wrong, for a verse where God unequivocally states we do have free will. If that were the arena for us to understand this concept of whether or not free will exists, we both would come up short. The muslims demand a verse where Jesus unequivocally states He is God and you will find none where he frankly uses the words, "I am God." However, there are plenty of statements Jesus said and occurrences in His life that give sufficient evidence that He communicated He was in fact God. With the parameters you gave above
_ I am not talking about verses that speak of choices being set before sinners. No one questions whether sinners are able to choose freely, voluntarily and meaningfully whatever we desire most at any given time._
These are the very truths stated that infer there is free will. Just as the word, "Trinity" is nowhere to be found in the Bible, yet we have so many scriptures both OT and NT that attest to the Trinity.
Choosing freely is free will. True love requires truly free will. If grace is irresistible then the object of that graced is forced to love. Is that love? And is it love to choose damnation for some and mercy for others and claim that somehow glorifies you? If that is your God he is worse than the Devil. Scripture defies tulip teaching, and many great men and women of God know and teach truth. I grew up in "four point" Calvinist tradition. Now thank God daily for His genuine love for all. His glory is truly in the lifting up of Jesus on the cross, dying for all people because He loves them. Thank you for standing up for God's character. ❤
@@glennluppold4233 Thank you for sharing your prodigious ignorance. No one who has been a part of a church in the 4 point Calvinistic tradition would think that Calvinists believe God forces anyone to believe. Sinners believe so freely and willingly that they often imagine that it is of their doing that they are in Christ.
It is holy and just for God to condemn rebels and God glorifies Himself by demonstrating all His attributes, not merely His love, mercy and grace.
@@glennluppold4233 If all you mean by "free will" is that sinners are able to choose freely what they desire most at a given time, Calvinists would agree that sinners in a state of pervasive corruption have free will.
@@TheBereanVoicePeople make choices all the time that go against their greatest desire... for instance a father sacrificing time for his children when he would like to do something for himself let's say. That free will definition you used is a canard. Watch a debate on YT regarding Libertarian Free will vs. Determinism between 2 Christians. There are many of them.
It is in our nature to want to avoid getting our just deserts, and that is what God promises to us, if we believe in Jesus.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish [i.e. avoid a bad thing] but have everlasting life [i.e. receive a good thing].”
Even the most hardened murderer, sitting on death row, understands the desirability of a full and free pardon.
You are right on. Feel free to ignore the ill informed comments of the Calvinists.
Thank you for your encouragement!
you ever read the bible? Hard to tell by ur comment SMH
@@jonanthony6179You just absolutely proved his point, and your fruit is totally consistent with how Calvinists act when somebody denies Calvinism. Stop dying on hills that don’t need to be died on, friend.
homeboy is calling Calvinist churches dead how is that not offensive lol i grew up in a strict non reformed slavic Baptist church and it ruined my life. when i repented i learned of Calvinism and haven't stopped growing to this day@@CyberTechSean
One of your many errors is that you imagine that if sinners have a responsibility to act or choose in certain ways, they must be able to do so. I can show you a multitude of duties set forth in Scripture which sinners are unable to perform. For example, sinners are clearly responsible to be subject to God's law including the greatest commandment to love God with all one's heart etc., yet Paul states that because of the sinners hostility toward God, the unconverted are not ABLE to do so. I could give many other bibilcal examples. Quote all the verses you like that speak about duties for which sinners are responsible. They prove nothing about the sinner's ability or willingness to obey.
Responsibility implies morality and morality can only exist justly if there is free will. I do agree that left to ourselves, we have no power to fulfill the absolute intent of law. We are told the function of the law is to give knowledge of sin. However, those in the OT were rewarded when they kept it and cursed when they broke it. In other words, there were times when they were able and times when they didn't. With that said the keeping of the law was not God's original intent but rather to so plant the law in our hearts that we would naturally walk in it. All that was shown was we were weak and without power to fulfill the law but this still does not disprove free will. In fact, free will is to admit our weakness and sinfulness and then surrender to God through faith in Christ so that we can then be empowered to keep the law as a result of the indwelling Christ.
How I became a calvinist...
Total Depravity
Genesis 2:17
John 3:6
John 8:34
Genesis 6:5
Romans 1:18-32
Jeremiah 17:9
Romans 3:9-18
Isaiah 64:6-7
Romans 3:23
Romans 8:7-8
Isaiah 65:12
Titus 1:15
Jeremiah 13:23
Romans 5:12, 14-19
Ephesians 2:1-5
Mark 7:21-23
Psalm 14:2-3
John 3:19
Matthew 7:17-18
Psalm 58:3
1 Corinthians 2:14
Proverbs 14:12
Colossians 2:13
Job 15:14-16
Isaiah 65:12
Romans 3:23
Romans 8:7
John 14:17
Unconditional Election
Romans 9:15-18
Ephesians 1:4-12
Romans 9:11-12
John 1:12-13
Mark 13:20
Revelation 13:8
Revelation 17:8
Romans 10:20
1 Corinthians 1:27-28
2 Timothy 1:9
John 10:26-30
John 10:15-16
John 6:37, 44
Romans 8:29-30
Isaiah 43:20-21
Titus 1:1-2
Psalm 65:4
Matthew 22:14
2 Timothy 2:10
Exodus 33:19
Deuteronomy 7:6-7
Acts 13:48
1 Peter 2:6-9
John 6:39
John 17:2
Romans 11:5-7
Isaiah 43:20-21
Romans 11:5-7
Malachi 3:16-18
Exodus 6:7
John 15:16
1 Corinthians 2:7
2 Thessalonians 2:13
2 Peter 1:3-4
Limited Atonement
John 3:16-18
Romans 8:30
John 6:35-40
Matthew 1:21
Matthew 11:27
John 10:11
John 17:9
Acts 20:28
Revelation 5:9
John 10:14-16
Ephesians 1:4
Isaiah 53:8, 11-12
Ephesians 2:1-5
Ephesians 2:8
John 5:21,24
John 10:26-27
John 12:37-40
Psalm 85:2
John 14:21-24
John 17:2, 9-10
Acts 10:40-41
Acts 13:48
Acts 15:14
Romans 11:7
Titus 2:14
Hebrews 7:25-27
Matthew 26:28
John 10:14-16
Isaiah 53:8
John 6:35-40
John 12:37-40
Irresistible Grace
John 3:3-8
Ephesians 2:1-10
John 6:37-39, 44, 65
John 6:44
John 10:16
Psalm 65:4
Ezekiel 36:26-27
John 1:12-13
Romans 9:15-18
John 5:21
Romans 11:5-6
Romans 8:30
John 6:39, 65
Hebrews 9:15
Philippians 1:6, 29
Philippians 2:13
2 Timothy 1:9-10
Isaiah 55:11
Acts 13:48
Acts 18:27
Titus 3:5
John 11:43-44
Colossians 1:13
Psalm 3:8
2 Corinthians 4:6
Acts 16:14
Galatians 1:15:16
Isaiah 55:11
Perseverance of the Saints
John 10:27-29
John 17:20-21
2 Peter 3:9
Philippians 1:6
Philippians 2:11-12
Hebrews 12:2
Romans 8:28-30
Ephesians 1:3-14
Romans 8:31-39
John 6:35-36
John 6:37-47
John 5:24
Romans 5:9
Romans 11:29
Isaiah 46:3-4
Psalm 37:28
Psalm 20:6
Psalm 121:1-8
Jeremiah 32:38-40
Hebrews 6:17-19
Hebrews 13:20-21
1 Peter 1:3-5
1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
1 John 5:4-5, 11-13
1 John 3:9
1 Corinthians 1:6-8
1 Corinthians 15:10
Romans 8:35-39
Romans 9:6-8
John 17:2, 12
So are you saying that it's our "sins" that we need to be saved from not our sin nature?
Everyone will sin at some point, because we are born in a fallen state away from God... with a proclivity to sin. The flesh, carnal man cannot and does not know God from birth. Sin is born from YOUTHFUL rebellion however, not birth.
The Bible teaches this in many places. Babies have no knowledge of Good and Evil, so therefore are not condemned by God until the age of Accountability.
Look at the Eastern Orthodox definition of what they term as Ancestral sin. Original sin as it is taught is from Augustine of Hippo, who influenced the RC church to adopt this view of sin. Calvinism borrows from Augustine heavily.
Great video
Thanks
Thanks for this thoughtful work. Not sure if you are aware, but within the first few minutes you drifted into semi-Pelagianism saying that we are not responsible for Adam's sin and that his sin nature was not passed on to us (because he had not made a covenant with the rest of mankind). Except that this is not scriptural, Romans 5:12-19 makes this clear, along with many, many other passages of scripture. Not to mention the oft quoted Rom 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (cf. Ps 14). The Bible is perfectly clear that before salvation we are slaves to sin, and what don't slaves have? Free will. Jesus Himself said in John 8:34 that he who practices sin is a slave to sin.
Anyway, just wanted to bring this up as it nullifies your entire argument. Can you counter this with scripture? I'd be interested in that.
Thank you for your cordial response! I do not see the scripture anywhere stating we are responsible for Adam's sin nor are we guilty of his sin. I do believe we inherited a nature corrupted from original righteousness as a RESULT of Adam's sin. There is no necessity that we are guilty in Adam and are therefore corrupted. Romans 5 makes it clear that Adam's sin caused sin to enter the world and death by sin. It does not say we are guilty in him.
The disagreement against him being our federal head in the Calvinistic sense is Calvinists would believe we sinned in Adam because he was our federal representative. In other words, whatever Adam did, we did in him. I would be interested for you to cite other passages that teach Adam was our Federal head or representative.
I believe you have taken the idea of being slaves to sin farther than the writer intended. Slaves do have a free will but are oppressed under tyranny. If we were to take it as the nonexistence of free will then later in that same chapter where it says we are slaves to righteousness should be interpreted that we shall always do righteously after we are saved because now we are slaves in that direction and can do nothing but righteously. Do you see how that could cause problems if we interpret consistently?
Really appreciate you taking the time to respond - you're probably a busy guy!
I think Romans 5:18 can be interpreted both ways: "Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men...". I believe we can get hung up on phrases and labels which mean different things to everyone, such as "federal head" and I don't want to get lost in the weeds. The simple fact is, sin (as well as the curses and the knowledge of good and evil) entered the world through Adam and all people are now born with a corrupted nature as enemies of God, and thus if God does not intervene to save some, we will all rightfully go to hell. There is no injustice in this (Rom 9:14). If this doesn't mean that Adam was our federal head in this sense, then I don't know what would convince you. It's enough for me. If you could somehow present a strong case from scripture that he was not in any sense, I'd honestly love to see it.
I also note how Adam is almost always juxtaposed with Jesus, as in the 2nd half of v18: "so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men". Surely, if we inherit eternal life and pardon from God because of Jesus, then we inherited and are somehow federated to Adam's sin and Fall? That seems to be the way it is presented in scripture.
Some of the verses I can cite to prove our corrupted nature: Ps 14:3, Ps 51:5, Rom 3:10 & 23, John 3:3 makes it clear our 1st birth was with sin built in. How could this happen if Adam was not our representative?
I'd also note that slavery was not always oppression under tyranny (and the Bible says a lot about evil slave masters!). But it certainly was an inability to enact any kind of free will rendering that free will null and void. Back in antiquity people willingly became slaves and were treated very well - it saved many from starvation and death. There is the 7 year rule for slaves in scripture (Ex 21:2). Not that I think we should go back to that of course!! Just making a point.
As to your point about always doing righteously after becoming a slave to Christ, there is an issue of applying the same "strength" and intent to both types of slavery and oversimplifying sanctification. After all, Jesus sets us free to serve Him willingly whereas sin hold us in bondage. 1Jn 4:4 "... greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world" shows slavery to Christ is not the same as to sin, and that Paul continued to struggle with his sinful flesh (Rom 7:15, 2 Cor 12:7) showing sanctification is some kind of journey and not instant.
I see you have a section titled "Entire Sanctification" on your website statement of faith - do you believe we don't sin after salvation?
@@GodsResistancePress yeah... that's called semi pelagianism....
"I would be interested for you to cite other passages that teach Adam was our Federal head or representative."
yeah, read the last 10 verses of 1 Cor 15
Aman brother good teaching. The man-centered cult of Calvinism is trash theology. A different gospel a different Christ.
I do believe it is a different gospel and literally a different god than the God of the Bible.
Yes completely different God and Gospel !!
I know calvinists say it's all God but I see so much pride and narcissistic tendencies ,you know like their own little selective , private member's club,and everyone else going to hell .
Nice video 👍
@@davidmansfield1796 Hello. Can you refute the Calvinist interpretation of Ephesians 2? Specifically verses 1-9.
@@IntimidatingSnail
Who's the letter written to ? The Church at Ephesus . They are baptized believers in Christ ,both Jews and gentiles.They are gathering ,receiving the sacraments and spreading the Gospel at great personal risk.
St Paul is reminding them how they all Jew and gentile lived sinful lives under the prince of the "air" ,the devil and his demons.By thier lustful ways and thier own thoughts .
But that God (Who is rich in mercy )still loved us, and "quickened us in Christ".
How are we quickened ? By baptism where we are baptized into Christ's death and resurrection , become sons of God and are born again by receiving the Holy Spirit . Raised up with Christ ,Christ is the head we the body,where the head goes the body will follow.
And again we are saved by Grace through faith so none may boast.Which I presume ALL Christians believe.
For we are His workmanship created in Christ for good works which we should walk in . Although many today say good works are nothing and not needed.
Angry Christian forgot he's supposed to be an example of self control and grace.
Calvinists who have been Calvinists for any length of time have already been admonished in all likelihood at least twice to repent. According to Titus 3:10,11 they only deserve rebuke and rejection. Nothing less. Paul doesn't tell us to waste time debating them. Just reject them. Dust your feet off against them and move on.
The debating is more for those that are unsure, sitting on the fence, or might be starting to get swept into the falsity.
@@GodsResistancePress
"The debating is more for those that are unsure, sitting on the fence, or might be starting to get swept into the falsity"
And that is really important. Calvinism is pretty convincing when put forth by an experienced, eloquent, skilled debater to someone who is unsure or a newcomer or who hasn't thought about these things in any depth {which at some point is probably most of us}. Not only that, probably most of us have been through at least a little Calvinistic thinking since we became believers. For example, if you did a straw poll amongst every believer in the world right now that _isn't_ a Calvinist, most would [whether now or at some point in their walk with Christ] experience at least some degree of surprise that God does not know the future in exhaustive detail or that He is not pulling the strings behind everything that is going on in the world.
It takes a while for us to become mature and sort these things out in our minds. And if someone Calvinistic presents an eloquent case for their position, it is easy to see how one could be persuaded. I know that because I found myself in that situation back in 1995.
I wouldn't go as far as some in describing Calvinism as heresy and blasphemy because many of my truly valued sisters and brothers in Christ who are Calvinists have brought many superb things to the table down the centuries that have enabled the church to grow and many who are against Calvinism have behaved in ways that have left much to be desired. And I include myself in that.
Calvinism is, for me, a misinterpretation of the words of the various biblical writers. I think it's immature, incoherent and has many side effects that _could_ diminish from a balanced understanding of scripture, but those that hold the views themselves are no less my brothers and sisters and I love them to bits, even though I vehemently disagree with their particular position And I could say that about pretty much everyone in Christ, that there are positions that I disagree with that each person may hold. And I know the vice would be versa !.
very condescending
So, what is the good in mankind that can reach out to God to be saved? You answered your own question . Total Depravity, 1. Total - sum, sum total, full. 2. Depraved - marked by corruption or evil. (and if you have a problem with the word evil,) Jesus called us evil; Matt. 7:11: " If ye then , being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children ... " and I will stop right here. I know the context of the passage. I haven't broken it. But this definition can be summed up with a word you used , namely, " sinfull " or I can say it this way, "full of sin. " So yes, we are totally depraved . But you think we are able to reach out to God. Jeremiah 13:23 says, " Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots ? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil." Before conversion to Christ, we were absolutely without hope. The problem with mankind is his heart. Jeremiah 17:9; " The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it ? Only GOD..." IF YOU CAREFULLY LOOK AT THE DOCTRINE OF SIN, and it's ramification, everything else can be understood. And don't forget. Isa. 64:6. The good that we did before conversion, is no good in the eyesight of GOD.
Adam didn't impute sin, Jesus does by way of not believing in Him.
Romans 4:8 KJV
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Absolute free will is,a,strange concept also.. I'm not a calvinist but I can fathom that the primal nature of a man has influence from corruption so isn't entirely free due to that imposition, it's corrupted of the natural man.
I don't see though that that has to mean man is utterly and absolutely incapable of Good, many non believers have done many kind acts through out the ages, rescued people from burning buildings, fought in wars, laid lives down for others, been charitable etc.. but it is stained with sin in a righteousness sense before God.. Good deeds are but filthy rags..
Calvinists woukd state that man cannot respond to God without a move of the Spirit..
This conclusion is erroneous as its not the spirit that does the drawing In John.. it's the father and Jesus..
I believe tge word is powerful enough to catch a lost depraved sinners attention.. I believe God can reach ghe lost in the,way he chose to do it.
I think Calvinism has a very flawed man made carnal view of God..
The word election (referring to salvation) should be the red flag
Good video 👍
Thanks for the insight and input!
@@GodsResistancePress
However 🤯 even though i dont beliieve calvinism in the some elected & limited (particular) atonemnt sense.. and I believe it is the father and Jesus who do the drawing, according to the word of God.. I've often sat and pondered my own coming to believe..
I didn't want or choose to become a Christian.. infact, I found the whole deal cringey and just plain weird. I used to mock those who believed.. and at the time my brain didn't really have the capacity to do much outside of what it was conformed to
I heard a guy talking in a room and what he was saying sounded like me.. lost and not being able to make sense of it all.. he didnt speak the word, well, not ftom the ink bits as written on the psge anyway.. but it was a tongue i understood - I got up a few days later and walked to a church.. understood nothing and as nice as they were I felt very uncomfortable and out of place .. not long after that I gave my life to christ and was baptised.. that was some time ago now..
It a few years for me to even understand what had happened that day.. it never ceases to amaze me how many people give their lives to someone they don't yet know or understand
I'm still walking that narrow path today.. I'm.not much cop at it.. I dont fit the stereo typical by a long stretch and I get it wrong more often than right.. but I came to know him as he is.. the good shepherd who gives the burdened a place of rest.
I still can't really say what happened.. but it was like coming out of a coma and i do believe something happened in my life, beyond me, before i believed..
John Calvin was just a man.
The reformation was a squabble with an outcome.
God is good.. Al the time ✌️😉
I am not a calvinist BUT, I definitely do not believe in practically anything you teach on this subject. Hey, goodluck with what you think. I'll lean more towards calvin's teaching. By the way, WE ALL HAVE ENOUGH SIN OF OUR OWN EVEN WITHOUT ADAM AND EVE. SO WE ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE
We wouldn't have had sin if it wasn't for Adam and Eve.
@@rozdavys7354we wouldn't be without the fall. There would be a different people walking around in the Garden
Very true. That doesn't mean that we are completely unable except God do everything for us though. The effects of the fall have corrupted everything. Things are not as they used to be before the fall and certainly not the way God intended. The fall did not however make us totally unable. If that were the case then God's command for repentance would be the dictates of a tyrannical monster. We realize that is not the God of the Bible though.
@andrew, total depravity is biblical. A person who is totally depraved cannot be saved...
After Adam and Eve sinned yet only cain showed an evil heart, Able didn't. Able was pleasing to God.
So Abel was not a sinner and didn't need a saviour?
I think the point that is being made is one person chose wickedness and another righteousness. Total depravity (really total inability) is not seen here.
I adore your refutation of Calvinism, but you from the very beginning make a fatally wrong comparison. You group ALL of reformed theology and Calvinism together. Both are not the same. Calvinism is like a second cousin to reformed theology that takes reformed theology and corrupts it into an extremist, horrifying view of God. Please don't group us all with the Calvinists.
I was not aware that reformed theology was anything different from Calvinism. Could you explain the difference our point me to some resources?
@@GodsResistancePress I suggest you look up the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith or the Westminster Confession which is more Presbyterian. One huge difference between general Reformed theology and Calvinism is that Calvinism teaches that God sovereignly has elected some for Heaven and everyone else for Hell, while general Reformed theology holds to the belief that God simply has His hand in the salvation of people by His sovereign will.
I’ll look at the Baptist Confession but the Westminster is unabashedly Calvinist. All 5 points of the TULIP acronym are espoused in the Westminster confession.
@@GodsResistancePress Then check out the Baptist confession. Not everything Reformed falls under the banner of Calvin
Yeah, he doesn't know what he is talking about.
:)
Ah, the mandatory "you don't understand Calvinism" comment
he doesn't, he is literally a semi pelagian saying we aren't imputed the guilt of Adam....
@@tomtemple69 guilt cannot be transferred from parent to child.
The Bible is clear about that.
Being born in a fallen nature=\=born guilty
@@awesomefacepalm Adam is the representative of all humanity...
If you have a fallen nature, you are corrupt and unable to choose God without a prior work of grace
here is the corundum: We are on this side of "Glory" and not in the "Kingdom" yet, we are sinners just by being here, This is the definition of total depravity, We are lost, we need to be drawn to Christ, Yet when saved for the kingdom we are still flawed, Providentially justified by Christ and saved by grace alone through faith to do good works not by good works, Calvin, a theologian, not totally wrong, we are not saved by Calvinism/Armenian, Reformedness, or any other doctrinal belief, Most of us can't keep all this theology straight in our heads, It does not matter our knowledge or belief on Eschatological doctrine, we are saved only by the Gospel found in 1 Corr 15; 1-4
I want to be saved, not by my knowledge, but by faith, czcams.com/video/aBKKM6iJdqc/video.html now go out and be a light for Jesus and do what is right.
Total depravity is biblical a person who is totally depraved can never be saved...
All calvanism is is cleaver post hoc rationalization why God's word the Bible is not true...
That is the bible, not Calvinism .
Adam was appointed our federal head by God, his agreement or disagreement has nothing to do with it. Even before the fall God and Adam were NOT negotiating as equal partners.
Where does the scripture states that Adam was appointed our federal head by God?
@@GodsResistancePress It repeatedly says that in Adam all died. Who do you think appointed him, because he didn't appoint himself. If you deny representation, then there is no salvation, because just as Adam represents all of the human race, Christ represents all of His race. It's either both, or it's neither.
@@johnhoran9840 saying that in Adam all died, doesn’t prove that he was our representative. The next verse says even so in Christ shall all be made alive. That does not say that Christ was made our representative either. It is very clear that what both Adam and Christ did had universal effects or consequences. Adam introduced sin into the world, therefore we are all affected by it negatively. Christ willingly died on the cross to make redemption possible to those that believe. Just as Adam’s sin universally affected the entire human race, so has Christ’s sacrifice the power to undo the damage of sin in our soul. Christ’s sacrifice is universally offered.
@@GodsResistancePress You just described representation to a tee.
@@johnhoran9840 my understanding of federal headship and representation is they are acting on our behalf or in our place. I do not see where Adam did that. I do believe Christ died on our behalf but not as one that “represents” us.
No man CAN come to me unless it has been granted by the Father. JOHN 6:65. ALL the Father gives me WILL come to me. John 6:37a. Please answer these statements.
They can’t
@@holinessTOG those who dont read the bible but listen to youtube fools are deceived
@jonanthony6179 John 12:32 KJV:
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
We don't have to study Spurgeon to understand that! I like Spurgeon, and he served a purpose, but there is far too much faith placed in the Protestant fathers and what they said the scriptures were saying.
Acts 11:18 KJV:
"When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life."
Notice that it doesn't say the "Calvinist elect"
I read some of your comments, and you are not helping your cause with your brash and accusatory comments. Please try to humble yourself and acknowledge that you don't have to be a popular preacher to understand God's word.
@@holinessTOG yeah, they can't
@timdodenhoff7942
2 Peter 2:1 KJV:
"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that BOUGHT THEM, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."
Can you reconcile this passage with the "L" in the man-made TULIP?
Back up just one verse to John 6:64 and read "But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him."
Foreknowledge is not the same as fatalistic determinism. I'll grant you that verse 65 is a mighty convincing verse in favor of Calvinism when taken out of context.
8:36 "we are going to save ourselves"?
Your salvation originate from within you?
Really?
If so, who get the glory for the salvation, sinful mankind?
This is a misunderstanding and misrepresentation of what was said. I do not believe God saves people against their will. We must meet God's conditions as stated in the scripture - repentance and faith - God is the one that pardons and gives us new life. God is the one that makes us a new creation and gives us His Spirit to dwell within us. I praise God for His glorious grace to justify once rebellious sinners and so change our nature when we are confronted by His Word and Spirit and respond to His call!
Free will theology is works based salvation. It's self justification. I can't see how its not boasting to claim salvation is the result of your decision and actions.
@@DVN5381 So many judgments and commands in the Bible hinge on free will. You have a wrong idea of works.
John 6:28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? [29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
This is the work of God - This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth, -Albert Barnes (A Calvinist)
@@DVN5381
"Free will theology is works based salvation. It's self justification. I can't see how its not boasting to claim salvation is the result of your decision and actions"
No offence to you because you are my brother/sister and I hope to come to your house for dinner in the new earth ¬> You are certainly invited to mine {I wonder what we'll eat}. And I'm sure we'll laugh at these earthly squabbles. But you are so wrong with that statement that I have to correct it as it isn't fair that you walk through the rest of your earthly believing it.
Free will theology is no more works based salvation than ballet is football. The reason that God can condemn people is because they _refuse_ to turn from their sinful state having had it put to them that they are in need of what the Lord has to bring. It may be once in limited circumstances, it may be over much of their lifetime. God is fair.
When a doctor successfully operates on me and I consent to it, I would have to be the universe's greatest idiot to claim that my new health had anything to do with me. My co-operation is _not_ me stating that I'm saving myself. I'm simply saying "Yes, operate. I am trusting your medical skill." The doctor has the skill and willingness to operate independently of my consent, but they cannot operate on me _without_ my consent.
It is not that salvation "is the result of your decision and actions" because salvation has been taken out of my hands by Jesus's sacrifice and resurrection and the Father's will and the Spirit's mystical action. What enables it to happen in my life is me saying "Yes, please !" It's a bit like, by not glueing shut my letterbox, I can receive mail. But it's the postal worker that brings it and deliivers that mail. All I do is have my letterbox open and ready to receive it. Hardly any credit to me ! That's why we might give a little something to the postperson at Christmas. They did all the work. I merely co-operated by not glueing shut the letterbox. How can I claim to receive any credit for agreeing to keep the letterbox working normally ?
In saying that, we are saved due to God's grace and we accept this by faith but we will be judged by the life we have lived once we have been impacted by the Lord ¬> works.
God's sovereinty does not absolve a sinner from responsibility...Judas is responsible for his treachery but his sin is within the framework of God'sovereignty...you dont understand a thing about reformed theology😁
Only God has absolute free will. Man's nature is hostile to God (Rom. 8:7). Man has a natural love for darkness (John 3: 19,20). Without the new birth man can not see the kingdom
of God (John 3:3). In liberal theology it is taught that all men have a spark of goodness and if you fan that spark you can bring about man's salvation. How much difference is there
in the liberal idea that man has a spark of goodness and your idea that man has a free will ?
If by absolute free will you mean that I can do whatever I want whenever I want I do not believe that. For example, if I wanted to fly off the top of a skyscraper by flapping my arms, I could choose to attempt it but be unsuccessful. If I wanted to rule over a kingdom today I have the free will to try and do that but it won't work. I do not believe freewill =absolute Godlike power. I do believe, however, the Bible clearly teaches we have a free will to choose to walk after God or to reject Him. I also believe God convicts and draws us. God calls and we respond with our free will. Our rejection of Him does not lessen His power or sovereignty in the least. God has opened the way of salvation and it is mighty to all those that come to Him!
Liberal theology man is by nature good but just needs education to overcome the "defaults." They totally ignore the fact that we have a serious problem of the heart as a human race. The fall of Adam resulted in terrible corruption falling upon the entire human race. The fall terribly twisted our God-given faculties so that we naturally lean towards wickedness. Where I would differ with the Calvinists is I do not believe the Fall resulted in Total Inability. I believe God in His grace has provided a remedy. He calls through the gospel and the Spirit (and all of scripture) and that call comes upon all of us that are asleep in our sins. When we hear that call we can choose to seek and explore more. The more we seek after God the more he draws us and enables us to overcome our propensity towards sin. When we ignore His call we are left in darkness by our own choice.
Is free will good ? If so, is man saved by his own goodness ?
Of course free will is good.God made us as free agents with a will of our own.
We are saved by grace through faith .
Free will and free agency are not the same thing. Free agency means that man can act according to his character. Until fallen man is regenerated by the Holy Spirit
he is a servant of sin (Rom. 6:20). In Mark 7:20-23 Jesus tells us what comes from the heart of man. Jesus says nothing about free will. All that Jesus talks about
in that passage are sinful things.
Free will theology is incoherent. Why does one person of corrupted nature choose to believe and the other doesn't choose to believe? If its not God deciding, then what could it be other than chance?
There is no point to evangelism, then - Nor does any doctrine matter. In fact, there is no reason to even read the Bible or be part of the church, as all is already set, so there's no point is even caring.
Well, he just trashed the doctrine of justification by faith. First he denied that anyone's guilt or innocence can be imputed to someone else, which means that we are not made righteous in the sight of God by the righteousness of Christ imputed to us. That would mean that we are judged on the basis of our own personal sin or righteousness. Then he used the Pelagian argument that if God gives us a command, it has to imply that we have the ability, on our own, to keep that commandment. But that would mean that it is possible for a human being to live a perfectly sinless life. In the middle he did quote a large number of Scriptures that describe the nature, depth and extent of human depravity, and then wound up denying what he had just read.
It doesn't say in the bible that Christ's righteousness is imputed to us, only that faith is imputed. Only those who do what is right are righteous, 1 John 2:29, 1 John 3:7. Jesus Christ died so that we would live righteously by faith, not that he could transfer his virtue to us 1 Peter 2:24.
@@jeztime7274
That being the case, none of us are going to heaven, because all of us fall short of the glory of God.
@@robertwheeler1158 When Paul says that in Romans 3:23, he is saying all fall short who are without Christ. That's why both Jews and Gentiles need to be saved by faith in Christ, and not through the Mosaic law. "But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," Romans 3:21-23.
Jesus says He gives those who are His glory. "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:" John 17:22. Those who are in Christ do not fall short of the glory of God, only those without Christ.
@@jeztime7274 I would certainly agree with that.
@@robertwheeler1158 I am not sure about why you said none are going to heaven... The bible never teaches that anyone is imputed with Christ's righteousness, but it does teach in Romans 6:15-23 that we can be made slaves of righteousness, being pleasing to God by obeying Him.
Kind of an an annoyed anti-calvnist, must be from the South Pole...verses 18 and 19 - keep reading - one trespass led to condemnation for ALL men. Condemnation. One mans disobedience the many were made sinners. Made sinners.
Good observation
Your view about Calvinism is not well explicit…Calvinism is 100%true
Would you care to explain?
Please give a brief correction, if you dare.
It is not something that can be explained over night..I am not an hyper Calvinist I am a reformed and you might want to listen to rc sproul Ty videos or read chosen by God
@@kayodemoyinoluwa6081you should always be ready to give an answer
If total depravity is true then NO human is capable OF GOOD WORKS. Please explain to me why some atheists do more good works than some Calvinists do. And don't tell me every Calvinist is the equivalent of mother Theresa in works. Just for the record John Calvin consented to the murder of a man. Wow he was really being holy eh?
Sounds like You have hatred in being tired of celebrties. Truth is supposed to be said in love.
Depravity has its levels some worse than others
However none can be saved
Unless drawn!
John 12:32
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
Acts 7:51
“You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!
But all are drawn
All means all sorts of people
Elect from every nation
Read john10 kjv
@@angloaust1575 True, but it also means all/everyone! You can't take John 10 where Jesus says that he has others that will come into the fold and make that a definition for all as meaning exclusively "all sorts of people." We have to harmonize all scriptures together.
Jesus spoke to them in a parable
So they wouldn't understand
Yet his sheep hear his voice
He made it quite plain
Ye are not of my sheep
Matthew13 also mentions
Why he spoke in parables!
Total depravity means that every human attribute is broken by the fall from rebellion. It does not mean that you are as bad as you can be, it means you are as "bad off" as you can be. Only a person who is flawless in mind, soul and body is acceptable to a holy God - and we have inability to fix ourselves - but perfect humanity is what God demands of us.
Salvation is by Grace thru Faith . Nothing in sinful Man helps GOD
We are not helping God but simply putting ourselves in a condition to receive from his hand. The saving is still all God!
they will deny this, but their belief shows they say one thing and mean another lol
This is a cringe worthy misunderstanding of Calvinism.
I gave Calvinist sources to accurately represent the teaching. What is misunderstood specifically?
Oh please explain it.
John Calvin consented to the murder of a man. Real holy guy.
Isaiah 45:7:
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
I think you misunderstand calvins doctrine. No man comes to the father unless God (Spirit) draws them.
Calvin’s doctrine is wrong. because it is taken to an extreme. The gospel and salvation is available to all who believe.
@@clint120 I think yes Calvin takes an extreme view, but according to the doctrine of sovereign grace the proposition is the God knows the first from the last.
@idenhlm Very true but Calvin says people are saved because they are decreed to be so by God. God’s foreknowledge is a result of His decree. The Bible says we are elect according to the foreknowledge of God. God knows ahead of time who will be saved but that doesn’t make him responsible for some going to heaven or some going to hell. In order for morality to exist there must be choices. We are then held responsible for those choices and bear their consequences.
@@GodsResistancePress In my view that's exactly what Calvin said, I think some some are confused by his words. Because of God's forknowledge how are we to speak about grace.
@@idenhlm Calvin did not believe election because of foreknowledge he believed foreknowledge because God decreed. In other words, because God unchangeably determined some to go to heaven and some to go to hell, he knew ahead of time who the elect were. I believe you may be seeing what the scriptures say but Calvin was contrary to the scriptures in this.
Before Paul’s conversion directly by Christ, could he have WILLED HIMSELF from killing Christians? What about Judas? Didn’t Jesus confront Judas about his upcoming betrayal and Judas rejected the claim but did it 👀
You are missing so much. Your reductionist attempt at understanding grace is at the elemental level.
Anytime someone disagrees with calvinism, the response from calvinists is always the same. TULIP kinda spells it out for you. If you don't like the fact that calvinism is deterministic, then abandon calvinism. Grace and faith are not meant to be difficult to understand. Actually, the opposite. It's meant to be some simple that a child can understand. However, calvinists always insist that the only ones who understand it are themselves. I guess God had effectually determined through secondary causes for us to be to simple to understand Grace.
After 6:22 I could not take your childish rambling.. stop you are wrong you couldn’t even realize the scripture you were saying then immediately following disagree with it.. how can your point be trustworthy if you don’t even know you are setting up against scripture..😮 I say very lame and try harder!
Perhaps you could be more specific as to where I was citing scripture and then immediately following disagree with it. Also, why is it that you and many Calvinists feel the need to immediately start with demeaning words and attitudes? I and many others would be more inclined to weigh out arguments if it were done in a spirit of charity. It's almost as if the more insults you and many Calvinists hurl, the more righteous your and their cause. The more nasty-spirited you and they are the more "earnest your and their concern for the glory of God." Essentially, being rude and edgy = truth telling = contender for the faith. In the same way you challenge my scriptural arguments I would challenge the fruit of the Spirit, or lack thereof, in your life and many Calvinists, against the scripture.
@@SalzausmErd I whole-heartedly agree with this!
the greatest sin is pride
pride to think you are righteous enough to choose God...
What planet do you live on? Why are you saying it’s self righteousness to choose God? I do not know a single person who thinks that! Choosing God means admitting you such and putting trust in Him!
A concern I have is this. You said that Adam was not the federal head for humanity, while Hebrews seems to make it clear that not only was Adam the federal head, Jesus is the federal head of Christianity/the church. One is either in Adam, in death, or in Christ, in life. Paul said that it is by one man that sin entered the world, and by sin death. Adam was the federal head. While we are not guilty of doing what he did, we have a sin nature, a nature of rebellion against God. For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Be careful or you may become a pelagian heretic.
Please note: Not once did I tell you to become a calvinist.
You’re fooling yourself.
How so?
Mark 10:18
“Why do you call me good” Jesus replied. “NO ONE is good except GOD ALONE”
People really don’t recognize how sinful they are. They take it lightly. We all do in various degrees of understanding sin. Everyone has a different level of consciousness concerning sin.
You were DEAD in your sins… anytime you want to tell me the scripture!!!
Are you implying that DEAD means total inability?
@@GodsResistancePress Yes
God save you from your prideful heretical teaching.
@dennisjordan5138 God help you to see total depravity as the scripture defines it and use your free will to receive the indwelling power of Christ to live victorious and not under the dominion of sin.
«if you are saved, you will stay saved and live a holy life…» Quit misrepresenting reformed teology. No one is holy. We are justified.
@knockout4121
"if you are saved, you will stay saved and live a holy life"
You will if you keep following Christ, confess your sins and let the Spirit of the Lord lead you.
Virtually every writer in the New Testament makes a point of warning we saints about not straying, living a holy life, not becoming complacent and the NT is saturated with warnings of what will happen to believers if they don't make holiness their goal.
@@grimtraveller7923Spot on!
So you are saying Adam's sin is not imputed to all mankind? your theology is horror!
Read your Bible brother and follow not traditons
Adams sin imputed to mankind ?? Is that another way of saying original sin?? Thanks
@@davidmansfield1796 Yea, the Bible says through one man sin entered the world.
The psalmist further made it clear by saying Mankind is conceived in sin.
I do believe the Bible teaches, when sin entered the world, we were corrupted in our God-given faculties and made us lean towards wickedness rather than righteousness. I do not believe the Bible teaches Adam sinned and we are guilty of his sin ie., we sinned in Adam. If you look into the early church in the first and second century, prior to the controversy between Pelagius and Augustine, this is what they believed and taught. I think it is more accurate to call the Augustinian-Calvinistic teaching of original sin an injection of a teaching/tradition of men into the church that did not exist prior. The church believed in depravity (not = to Augustine's teaching or original sin) but not the Calvinistic falsehood of total depravity (by which they mean total inability.) I believe what I believe now because of a study of the Bible. I believe Adam's sin affected all mankind but was not imputed. The only thing that is said to be imputed in the Bible is righteousness. Righteousness in Romans 4 is talking about justification. Abraham's justification before God was imputed (reckoned) to him by or through his faith. In other words, Abraham was justified by God because he believed God's promise. We are justified by God when we believe God's promise (If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.)
I disagree with this argument about total depravity and the TUILP all together. We cannot do good works without it being through God Eph 2:8. Human nature is evil and the only way we can be saved is through the grace of God. We must understand how we have failed God to be saved. Isaiah 57:15: For this is what the high and exalted One says-he who lives forever, whose name is holy: “I live in a high and holy place, but also with the one who is contrite and lowly in spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly and to revive the heart of the contrite. We must make ourselves humble in order to stand in front of God as we are not pure and we need his grace for salvation. Luke:18:13, Jesus states "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ That also goes to show we need everlasting grace in order to become saved and enter the Kingdom of Heaven. We must admit our faults before God accepts us into the Kingdom of Heaven.
We can say we accept the Trinity, but if we do not understand it or practice it, then we were never actually saved. God is indeed angry at us, but through his grace and our surrender to him we are saved and will go into heaven.
Interesting that he does not use scripture to debunk it. Once again he has proved that people critic biblical doctrines by using logic instead of using scripture to argue. The guys you qoute use scripture you use human logic.
The Israelites continued to sin AFTER they witnessed God’s physical manifestations. Point being is that the human mind, body and soul are corrupted since the Fall. Most commentators here didn’t know who Jesus was when they were born. When God called Samuel while he was sleeping, Samuel didn’t even know what that “voice” was. Samuel woke up his dad and told him what happen. His dad told him “oh, that’s the Lord”. He didn’t automatically know off the bat and neither do most people. How many humans are fully aware of God’s presence as a child?