Why Don't Solar Panels Have Magnifying Glasses On Them?
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
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We're all familiar with solar panels, but those are silicon-based residential panels, chosen for low costs. But there are all sorts of more exotic types of solar panels that are used in very expensive things like Space stations and satellites. But what if I told you that some breakthrough research happening in the world of concentrated photovoltaics has completely flipped the economics of solar on its head? How exactly, and how could we double current solar efficiency and still make these more high-performance highly exotic panels cheaper? Let's find out today on Two Bit da Vinci! Amazing Benefit of Concentrating Light on Solar Panels!
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction
01:26 Current Progress
02:00 Current Cost Challenges
03:42 High Tech Cells
04:25 Concentrated Photovoltaics!
05:21 Classifications
06:30 Benefits
08:35 The Challenges
09:22 New Breakthroughs
10:35 HEAT
11:35 Added Complexity
12:08 Conclusions
what we'll cover
two bit da vinci,solar panels,solar energy,solar power,solar panels how they work,solar panel,This Insane Device Doubles Solar Efficiency and Halves the Costs!,cpv,concentrated solar power,concentrated photovoltaic (cpv) technology,concentrated solar power vs photovoltaics,concentrated solar photovoltaic,concentrated solar panels,concentrated solar,concentrated photo-voltaics,concentrated photo voltaics,concentrated photovoltaic,concentrated photovoltaic panels, This Insane Solar Invention Doubles Efficiency and Halves the Costs! Concentrated Solar Breakthrough is 2x More Efficient and 1/2 The Cost!, Why Don't Solar Panels Have Magnifying Glasses On Them? - Věda a technologie
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Stop with clickbait
Good explanation, again. 😀
Finally add back side some cooling and turn heat to electricity too and increase solar panel efficiency. There is many good simple ideas out there. But in space solar and earth solar are whole different things, because if we don't have clouds, we still have some hundred kilometer or so layer of air. Dirty, sometimes more dirty. Space is cool, very cool backside of panel, it increases efficiency too. If you cool hot panel at day, when temp goes lower, it knoks more electrons to move versus panel that is hot already. It's weird that cooling isn't calculated to effect enough for it would be used already. And heat flow from panels could be turned to electricity many ways. Not enough effect I quess, or something else?
Used fuel rods from nuclear plants could make electricity very long time too, same way if wanted, now they just cool of those without getting anything. Old system that throws money for fossils goes on forever. That thing dosen't bring money back, it just gives energy and from huge cost. Same time it gives something to our next generations that they dosen't have choice to deny it..
Several projects have analyzed the efficiency of wide angle solar reflective collectors. IIRC they have a natural peak no one knows how to beat because increasing the curve starts reflecting light back out. So now with 3D printing the cost race will focus on holding cost steady while increasing durability. A 50 yr durability has to be the goal so the panels can replace home roofs at low cost. The LCOE bust be cheap to make the solar roof cheap. A solar roof with "forever" durability makes the LCOE nearly free, so durability nearly excludes anything else from importance. In contrast, utilities can focus on more efficient panels and simply produce a big pile of spent solar panels.
Its the second video you make to clickbait and take reviews.Boring and pointless.
You could use your house’s own indoor plumbing to cool the high-concentrated PV and easily offset water heating costs.
A pre heater before your water heater, also in Winter it would be nice to pump air through, to preheat the air before your heat pump.
And you’ll have constantly use the hot water from 9am to 5pm
@@kalrandom7387 Maybe you wouldn't even use a heat pump in this instance, more likely you would just have a radient heating system, no?
Places that are super sunny usually don’t have lots of water. I.e, deserts. Also, using active cooling might rob you of any of the efficiency gains from concentrating sunlight in the first place
@@NiftyShifty1 there are plenty of places with tons of sunlight, and lots of water. I live on the Gulf Coast. It's hot, it's humid, and when it rains, it's often torrential, but only for a couple of hours, at most. I promise you, the sun is very oppressive here. Also, there is not always water shortages in deserts. Pipelines exist. When we decided to build a city in a desert, such as Los Angeles, the second largest city in the US, we work out how to water it.
Wow blast from the past, this is what I worked on with my graduate thesis some 20+ odd years ago in grad school. I also showed that you could get increased efficiency with increased concentration and at the time solar was much more expensive than it is today, but that wasn't exactly anything new either, couldn't exactly do too much of a cost analysis as I was quite literally funding everything out of my own pocket so there was a lot of DIY kludged together things, if it wasn't for a "personality dispute" with my grad advisor I may have actually gotten to the point of writing a paper on all of it, I still did finish grad school I just had to do a 180 on the focus I took.
But yeah all the same issues are ones I dealt with, cooling was the biggest, but also some level of tracking is needed, one idea I had was a "trough mirror" and the solar away from the Sun, that idea is still used except it's used to heat fluid to spin turbines to make electricity instead of making electricity directly
Wow indeed. I beat you by ten years :-) I just posted my version of this concept. Same concept, same funding problems. Same dead end. Maybe our time has come.
I just thought of a solution that might reduce the cost of moving panels towards the sun. Study how flower plants manage to move their stems to improve their abortion of sunlight. Because nature is usually very efficient at what it does it can probably help us to come up with a solution to make sunlight more available for absorption. PS: Please accept this correction: "abortion" should be read as "absorption".
The idea of moving the collection point around in the panel using 2 small dc motors (it’s a plane so very simple to implement and low power consumption) is pretty good solution. If the lens requires “z-movement” to adjust the focus then yeah another motor is needed (or other way to handle focusing) but maybe not even needed if the focus doesn’t change much.
I really think that would be the easiest idea to implement for the panel and much smaller power consumption than moving the whole panel around!
Lol and where is it today? There's a raason you ain't work in there today: money.
I hope you consider getting back into this field of research, and while you might not be able to do much with concentrated solar since others are already working on it, the field could use all the smart people it can get to help expedite the work, and explore other ideas for better efficiency.
My aunt & I, just 2 women interested in the world of solar power since 1980s. I have loved watching the advancement of solar energy. I have a small system on my van. I live in Ohio & the power companies here have put a lot of lobbying into qertailing solar power here. However I am so very happy, our Cincinnati zoo has property in my county & they are halfway to installing solar fields. I would like to believe this will help homeowners see the advantage & advancement of alternative power. Not shattering news but gives my heart a happy beat. Thank you for all your information you share. I'm not an engineer, just a grandmother looking forward to a world that doesn't rely on fossil fuels.
Renogy flexible panels are covered in dots that are supposed to allow light to gather from multiple angles. It's not concentrated of course, but it's something.
When purchasing solar panels, efficiency took a backseat to lifespan for me. A 22% panel that loses 20% of its power over 25 years is way less efficient long term than a cheaper 20% panel that only loses 10% of its power over 25 years.
Yup. I would much rather buy 20% roof panels that only lose 10% over 50 years than pay the same money for a 22% panel that loses 20% 25 years.
When I buy bricks, I want those bricks to mostly do their job in 25, 50, 100 years not inconveniently stop working the day I pay off the mortgage.
Panel life expectancy is way more important to focus on today and not efficiency gains using exotic materials.
interesting about renogy i'll check it out! yeah longevity is way important for sure.
Exactly, for home solar efficiency is good, longevity is better, price is king.
One system I have read about is using a pair of mirrors set between the panels. You do not move the panels with this system since the mirrors reflect the suns angle in a straighter form onto the panels. There very little heat buildup from this system and additional cooling is not required, but the efficiency is increased a large percentage.
@@mrspeigle1 I'd say that longevity is more important than cost even. Since installation is a major cost as well as the panels.
I worked with cooled PV and concentrated light 20 years ago. PV cells were very expensive then and had only some 10-15% efficiency at normal intensity back then. As prices dropped and efficiency went up, the economy of concentrated solutions evaporated.
I’m still running some Arco panels that had reflectors trained on the in the late ‘70s at the Carrizzo Plains plant in California. The hotter temps due to reflection actually reduced efficiency and darkened the backing. They put out about 50% of their rating.
You're a great educator and cover the topic in an understandable way with good graphics. Big ups. Very much looking forward to the future of solar
This time your input was really good. Thank you 🙏
You need to keep in mind that a concentrator has to take up the same amount of square footage as a standard PV panel, even if the cell itself is smaller, or a lot smaller. So your panels end up being the same size! That's because they all face the sun, with it's 1 KW/square meter. So your roof installation is still the same size. What could make a difference is higher efficiency cells, but currently it's a lot cheaper to just add more standard panels rather than buy special high-output panels or tracking hardware.
As he mentioned around 8:30 mark, the actual energy created for the same size panel is actually roughly 2.5 times as much. So you can get the same amount of energy for less real estate.
Careful wordsmithing can lead you to the wrong conclusions.
The bottom line is... Twice the sunlight requires twice the collector area.
You don't get something for nothing.
@@richard77231 actually read the details
It's claiming to get 952 watts at ~45% efficiency from a 55x55 cm square. The sun only produces ~1400 watts on a 100x100 cm square.
The only way for that to happen would be the PV cell being 55x55 and the actual panel/collector being WAY bigger (on the order of 100x200 at a minimum)
Very interesting analysis. I would strongly suggest that the academic researchers collaborate with their colleagues in the School of Architecture. What we need even more than a boost in efficiency is a breakthrough in “Building Integrated Photo Voltaics” (BIPV). A “panel” that could easily be semi transparent might be formed into a very nice window or skylight or door or …
Super nice video, I have just a couple of doubts on the efficiency part: as far as I know the total electricity generated goes with the log of the light irradiance, this means that doubling the light intensity on a PV module gives you less than double the electricity due to an higher charge recombination rate. If that's the case, in the example at 8:00 you should get less electricity on the right part compared to the one on the left.
Where did you get the efficiency plot at 7:40?
This is just out of curiosity btw :)
All kudos to those researching this concept. Potentially very exciting.
This works well for direct heating solar water panels where heat is what you want
It does, but in practice only total surface area matters, because the panels are insulated pretty well.
You have to balance pump hours vs. temperature. You don't want the pump to always run, because it takes energy to do so. You don't want to switch the pump on and off a lot, because that would break the pump quickly. The optimum is in between. In practice, 60 degrees of fluid temp seems about right and it allows you to use the heat directly.
Please also not that modern floor heating works with temperatures only slightly higher than room temperature (2-5) degrees.
What I would want is a solar panel that on the rear is cooled by water, the heat of which is transfered to a vat, from which all warm water for the house (water as well as heat) is generated. Combine this with a heat pump and you get a pretty efficient system, me thinks.
@@juliusfucik4011 If you power the pump directly from PV it only runs when the sun is shining. This complements a drain-back solar thermal system in climates where nighttime freezing could be a problem.
The weight of these lens is also a big problem for rooftop solar. And with regards to thermal losses due to lens material... that's actually a really difficult problem to solve cheaply. Optical glass can get very expensive and most other materials (such as plastics) will degrade quickly from the UV.
-Matt
From my experience the UV damage is usually only on the surface which can be polished off similar to rejuvenating car headlight lenses that go opaque.
@@celtshaun1427 the thing is, you don't need to climb on the roof of polish headlights, and there's usually only two of them. It would be a much more grueling task to to that to the entirety of a solar array.
The weight of the plastic lenses may be compensated for by requiring smaller/less PV cells. I think you can coat plastics with an UV resistant and absorbing layer. Car windows often have a plastic layer that absorbs UV.
@@GerbenWulff I don't think so. The actual solar cells don't weight that much... I mean, think about it. They are wafer-thin. Its everything else around them that adds the real weight. And these lens are very thick... we aren't talking paper-thin here, we are talking multiple inches.
@@junkerzn7312 You are right about the weight of the wafer. Most of the weight is in the glass. But if you use less solar cell surface, you might also be able use less glass surface. And the plastic layer might allow the use of a thinner layer of glass. I know there are cells that have either top and back layer made of glass and cells that have a plastic foil backing.
Nice, I’m working on this very technology in a startup here in Italy. This is still expensive as hell but the latest cells with 40+ efficiency have a lot of potential to bring down costs. plus we are coupling cpv with csp so with a mix of electric energy and thermal energy production we could reach 80+ % global efficiency
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So glad to hear it Tray!
So Solar + hot water, and during the winter heating. What a bright idea.
Great video. You should do a video on the new solar technology being developed by the British company "Cambridge Photon Technology" (CPT), who have been published in Nature Science journal. They are working on a transparent layer which could be placed over EXISTING solar panels, and this layer makes use energy from different parts of the light wavelength which are not used at all by normal solar panels, and it converts that otherwise unusable range into EXTRA photons of light that can be used, and passes those, along with the other light, onto the solar panel below. In brief, it does this by converting the normally unusable light into pairs of excitons which, via quantum dots, then causes the film to emit lower energy photons that the solar panels CAN then use in addition to the normal light bands the current do. This can effectively potentially double or more the efficiency of existing solar panels! Solar is already the cheapest way of making electricity, but if we can DOUBLE the amount of energy generated in by the same area of panels, then it would, when paired with batteries to make the energy available 24/7, change the world overnight to 100% renewable, clean, cheap and limitless energy.
As the saying goes "If God had wanted us to have clean and limitless free energy then God would have put a huge nuclear fusion reactor in the sky... oh wait, God already did that, we call it the Sun!" Solar power is a way of simply using the same natural nuclear fusion energy that has provided the energy for all life on Earth, via heat and photosynthesis - so as all of life's energy comes from the Sun, it makes sense that ALL our energy should come from the same eternally reliable source!
wow that sounds fascinating, I'll check it out Tim!
I pitched this same product idea to investors back in 2011, but couldn't get anyone of them to invest in it. One of the investes told me that he "finds it interesting". I even had solutions to the generated heat on those solar cells, but still no interest. They were only interested in social media ventures.
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This reminds me of when I was cycling through France, past fields and fields of sunflowers. They would open in the morning and track the sun across the sky before closing at night. With these pyramid filters the panels could be flower shaped. The PV cell itself is quite small, and the rest of the panel is pretty much just glass, right? The thing is, sunflowers are small but there are lots of them, and I think that might be the way you could get these things on roofs. Perhaps lots of smaller cells that move independently (with a small profile) on the same mechanism could be the way forward? You could even put them behind a sheet of glass to keep them safe from the elements. Maybe even air cool them and use the air for a sand battery. Just a thought. We can get all of the heat and electricity we need from the sun. It's just a matter of engineering the perfect solution.
They're actually already is a product that looks like a giant flower and tracks the Sun. It's pretty cool because the panels are shaped like pedals and mounted on a central hub. The panels rotate behind each other at night to protect the cells from the elements. Has the neat side effect of looking like a flower with all but one pedal plucked at night
I've seen a thing called a "solar flower" that sits on a pole and has "petals" that are pie shaped, that open up when the sun comes up and tracks the sun till it goes down and then they close up.
The action of closing up also cleans them.
They are sized for a home, but you'd need a clear area that is unshaded.
@@wernerdanler2742 yeah. I'm pretty sure that was the thing I was thinking about.
I think perhaps the cells don't need to move. The angle of light on to the surface of the actual cell doesn't need to be absolutely direct, right? The concentration of sunlight does though, right? What if you could keep the cells in the same place but have a big glass lens with multiple focus points that moves to focus the light on to the cell throughout the day? I mean, the sun is always going to be roughly the same distance from the earth, right (as far as the cells are concerned anyway)? If you could manufacture an array of cells with just one moving part that focusses the light beams on the various cells, the mechanism would be much more simple. Similarly, you could have the array of cells move but keep the lens stationary. Either way, incorporating the focussing lens/lenses in to the lid of the panel makes a lot of sense to me. The idea of using multiple smaller cells in this way would lower the profile of the panel itself and make it more practical for roof use. I mean, I have a very basic engineering qualification, but it works in my head at least.
Excellent video! Thanks a lot!
I always like to see what you find out there. I'm trying to build a pedal assist mobile home and vehicle all in one that a young or old couple could live in comfortably year round. I've been able to cut about 70% of the electrical cost to maintain this vehicle any time of year by designing and manufacturing some of my own version of electrical products. Watching channels like yours always keep me thinking. All I can say is you're awesome! Have a wonderful day my friend.
I think the UV resistance of those lenses will be the biggest challenge. They will get less transparent, so basically block the energy.
It's actually amazing how many ideas & proven concepts we now have. We could get to a point where we have a very diversely creative power grid BUT it CONTINUOUSLY seems to get blocked/stopped from happening due to "nitpicking initial manufacturing cost" *which is totally absurd in all Honesty because these projects/goals/concepts are out of this world and (remember how much the first B & W TVs, VHS players, blueray player's Cost when they first started coming out?) We didn't stop that then?? Now look how much that benefited that category of the market? It just needs that beginning support and patience to let a manufacturing foundation baseline occur. (I really hope we can start to see it's worth it in taking the risk "at first" for a potential life/societal improvement.) They just need to be smart and practical with the ideas they choose. If they green light everything it would defeat the purpose and muddy the water and make people and investors not want to support anyone. So we need to find a middle ground & be intelligent and analytical towards the projects we decide to test how tie into the power grid and how they fit into the marketplace. Whether it's industrial supply or private personal product supply.
We can enhance our power grid. I know we can.
Have faith in the market, to get a tech to scale requires massive investment and the folks who build the factorys know what they are doing. If a technology dosent get to scale its because there's a reason that's been located by the folks who are designing the process.
I've been worried about the influx of money from the new IRA bill going to crackpot and fraudulent money grabbing ideas.
Such an Interesting concept . I hope they can make it work , be efficent, and affordable . So Wise , Thank You
Again, thank you!great presentation
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Efficiency is a vanity metric in most cases, it's only important if your solar-collection real estate is limited. So maybe for large PV farms, or space applications it's important.
In most cases it's really just $/Wh that matter.
I think you're spot on Richard, well said
Here's an Idea:
Would it be possible to apply this geometry to a pool and have a panel at the bottom using water as a diffraction material?
It would use a big "dead space", it would heat the pool and cool the panel and a heat pump could use the water as a heat source when it gets too warm to use the energy as effectively as possible.
The water in the pool would be hottest in the middle of summer.
@@klepow that is why I was thinking to use it as a heat source on a heat pump. That would extract the heat and send it to your boiler, a modified dryer and in to the soil for later use.
This would both increase the efficiency of the heat pump and cool the water to a preset temp.
@@BUCURPOPA I doubt it would be worth it. Without this Rube Goldberg contraption, you would still get 500% efficiency.
That's great its electricity and heat both can be used in residentials sector very well ..no need of separate system
Thank You for that information.
Imagine using it in conjunction with other passive systems, pull off the excess Heat preheat for your water heater, air for your heat pump system. There's a lot of heat that can be pulled off and used in a passive systems to help boost your houses efficiency.
You could also combine it with thermoeletric materials to convert the heat to electricity.
@@eddielopez5708 Good point. I wonder why they aren't already doing that?
Gather the light to a point and then bounce it off of a nickel mirror surface to capture the heat and reflect the rest of the spectrum to a solar cell. Reduces wear on the solar cell.
One of the interesting factors about net zero is how long it would take us to make the parts, vs how long to install them. It could take more than 20,000 years to mine some of the ingredients we need globally - even assuming the quantity we need is available. Every time you can double the efficiency without adding complexity or rare ingredients, you halve a bunch of factors that stand in the way. If you halve it enough times then the practical barriers disappear. Efficiencies are awesome. Hoping we keep pumping them out at the rate we have been :-)
I couldn't have put it better myself!
And where to dump the used up ruins?
@@Plainsman1300 If there are enough of it, eventually there would be a way to economically mine them for their raw materials.
@@imzjustplayin used fiberglass blades up to 80 feet in length are a problem because of wide area of distribution, size and weight. Can you think of a use or manner of material recovery?
Interesting. The first time I saw this technology. A month or two back. I bought some small lenses that are magnifying glass sheets to fit the size of my small solar panels. To prove a point to my son that I could get more out of a solar panel. Worked perfectly. Now you're showing this, cool.
I have a couple of largish commercial buildings to take care of, over 65,000 square feet, and our hot water consumption is pretty significant. We also have pumps and tanks for the hot water. Plumbing in heat exchangers for the solar collectors would be an obvious backup for the water heaters.
I would love to hear more about how concentrated PV's may be used in northern/cooler climates requiring less cooling, especially in winter. Could they be the answer in the Pacific Northwest?
It depends how clear the skys are. The concentration only works in direct sunlight (e lens produces an image of the sun into the solar cell, and if you can't see the sun you can only image a cloud). So these are far far more affected by cloud cover than normal cells.
Bifacial for cooler areas
Oppositely, could have home panel systems using these on say, the edges of the panels somehow? Or edge of the roof? Both? IDK
Rocky desert regions bordering villages and towns: Lots of solar panels. Capture heat in water somehow too. Can't really terraform those anytime soon. Sandy deserts: terraform with cow dung and planting coprophilic fungi in them to turn methane into carbon dioxide as they help to fertilise the ground. Bit later plant hardy plants. Grasses.
50 years time, suitable for planting lots of trees and doing more work to transform total sandy desert to work as massive CO2 sinks with clean drinkable water stores.
I mean, winter sun still exist. I'm getting solar panels on my house in northern England, and they'll still generate some energy in winter. The big issue is the clouds tbf
@@waqasahmed939 Oh yes as someone a little familiar with Northern England, those clouds indeed.
The weather the last ten years, and certainly last two is arguably an indication disruption caused by climate change is already starting to affect even drizzly damp Northern England.
What I'd like to see is people allowed their own small Vertical Axis wind turbines in their yards or gardens if they have them.
Also massively loosening planning regs to just get more normal wind turbines build in general. The NIMBYs are a loud minority who should be ignored for everyone's own good.
Then from there soon as any high quality home storage available at massive scale, the State helping everyone get sorted with them, who can't afford to buy their own.
I think we might see Lithium's role decrease from forecasts, with it ultimately at the moment being best for lightweight applications, when cheaper and also more emissions friendly, but less energy dense battery tech is coming in.
Very few homes will have both pressing need and the money available for a fancy Powerwall, for example?
I invented this concept in my head 20 years ago. Seems very much like common sense. Had no idea the mfg costs would end up being cost effective
pretty crazy right?
You too eh? Join the club. I have counted five or more in this thread alone. I win first place - 30 + years ago !
Yes it appears a lot of us thought of this years ago. It's amazing how long it's taken for somebody to bring it to market.
A nice look at many aspects of the issue related to concentrated PV. Thanks.
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Once again here to mention "Blowhole" type wave power generation as it is a game changer.
Wave Swell Energy's remarkable UniWave 200 is a sea platform that uses an artificial blowhole formation to create air pressure changes that drive a turbine and feed energy back to shore. After a year of testing, the company reports excellent results.
As we've discussed before, the UniWave system is a floatable device that can be towed to any coastal location and connected to the local energy grid. It's designed so that wave swells force water into a specially designed concrete chamber, pressurizing the air in the chamber and forcing it through an outlet valve. Then as the water recedes, it generates a powerful vacuum, which sucks air in through a turbine at the top and generates electricity that's fed into the grid via a cable.
As a result, it draws energy from the entire column of water that enters its chamber, a fact the team says makes it more efficient than wave energy devices that only harvest energy from the surface or the sea floor.
WSE's key innovation here is that one-way generation; other devices that harvest the same effect use bi-directional turbines, requiring the ability to reverse blade pitch or redirect the airflow. WSE says its design allows for far cheaper and simpler turbines, that should also last longer since they're not getting as much salt water splashed through them when a big wave hits. Indeed, all this device's moving parts are above the waterline, a fact that should help extend its service life as well as making it completely harmless to marine life.
Interestingly, the UniWave's design also makes it easy to incorporate into breakwaters and seawalls, where it can take a coastal erosion protection project and turn it into a clean energy source.
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This idea of using magnifying glass on solar panels has been hovering my head for a decade now..
efficiency actually increases, except so does heat which lowers efficiency, it comes down to how much concentration we're talking about... good stuff!
same.
the idea makes sense.
the magnifying glass is too strong for our current technology tho. if we can diffuse the effect and keep it easier on the panel it would be better.
ppl have already thought of other good ideas using this same thing, like melting sand with mirrors and using it as a heat battery.. that works. but currently too expensive.. yet building nuclear plants isn't considered expensive. the goal is to make electricity in smart ways.. cost shouldn't be the issue, we can work on that later.
another idea would be to divert light to a panel that would naturally not get sunlight at certain times of day.
imagine if we could have a space mirror divert light at night onto solar panels. that would solve the "sun doesn't always shine" problem.
but then comes the "you can weaponize it, you fuck up the day and night cycle for humans and animals" argument.
however.. it would be nice cuz solar panels could basically power the world at night this way. since ppl generally use less electricity at night. and we could burn less stuff as well.
i would use that space mirror technique near the poles of earth where day and night cycle switches every half a year or so. they could benefit the fuck out of that. and it would be an interesting localised experiment.
That idea was postulated back in the 70’s. Only the materials and electronics have improved.
@@robertg7249
China is already planning to deploy your space mirror idea, let's see how that works out for them, maybe we can learn a few things from how it affects them and find out it's pros and cons, most importantly know if it's worth working on or not 😂
@Absolute Mad Chad It also comes down to whether or not you can drain that heat away before the cell suffers any damage. We saw how they pulled this off in that "Solar Cell that doesn't run on sunshine video."
Conventional pv panels usually last about 20 years, surely exposing them to concentrated light would seriously shorten their lifespan
For regular solar cells this is probably a bad idea except in cold climates where overheating wouldn't be an issue. However high temp solar panels (500c)do exist and using those with mirrors makes more sense economically.
great points, yeah I think it would come down to economics, like if energy was expensive and you had a panel that produced 2x the energy in the same area, and those costs meant sufficient profits to consider changing them out in 10-15 years or so, maybe it makes sense. plus maybe these panels could be sent it for refurbishment, where nothing but the tiny cells inside have to be swapped out and then the panels are shipped out again!
@@TwoBitDaVinci Great point. The bulk of the panel would definitely be reusable. Only the solar cells would neet to be replaced.
It actually makes sense to make lifetime of PV cells shorter because in this case customers won't be locked for 20+ years to their legacy cells, but can periodically upgrade them and get benefits of improving tech.
Damn. It's an amazing time to be alive. Thanks!
I COULDN'T have put it better myself, cheers!
Simplist fix is a water filled chamber with the magnifiers on the outside of a One Way mirror allowing the rays to be trapped and bouncing.
The heated water can then be used for heating and cooling similar to the operation of a heat pump.
Want to go to the next level?
Since it is going to be producing temperature disparities use it as well with the best surface metallic spray for additional electrical generation.
Use the force Luke.
For every force there's an equal and opposite force so using both of them will definitely increase their potential output
another great video. thank you
Glad you enjoyed it Michael, cheers
Anyone remember the company Solyndra?
This is the entry in Wiki at the beginning, and it's wrong:
Solyndra was a manufacturer of cylindrical panels of copper indium gallium selenide (CIGS) thin film solar cells based in Fremont, California. Heavily promoted as a leader in the sustainable energy sector for its unusual technology, Solyndra was not able to compete with conventional solar panel manufacturers of crystalline silicon.[1]
About two years after the Obama administration co-signed $535 million loans to Solyndra,[2] the company filed for bankruptcy on September 1, 2011.[3][4] A 2015 report from the Department of Energy found major flaws in Solyndra's business practices and claimed the company made "inaccurate and misleading" statements to obtain the loan guarantees, and also found fault with Department of Energy oversight.[5]
What REALLY happened was the cost of silica had kept going up, and because of this it was worth looking at making solar panels differently than we have been. China has some big deposits of silica, and when prices started going up 2006 - 2010 time period, China opened this up for mining, and the price of silicia dropped to 1/10th it's value, and this once again made solar panels based on silicone very inexpensive.
Solyndra was doing THIS exact kind of work, developing more efficient panels and using different elements, but when China took control of the solar industry and they effectively dropped the cost of panels by about 80% through mining and improving manufacturing, etc.... like what this video said without saying this ALL happened in China, that killed Solyndra. Solyndra failed because the Chinese were successful and getting panels to the very low cost they are now. So, while they might not have been quite upfront with what was happening 2006 - 2010, they didn't fail because they were a BAD company. This was well researched in fact and they failed because of the success of the Chinese companies, which killed the need at that time to do more research and try to SELL more expensive and more efficient panels.
Random but it rained the other day and as it was drying out and the sun came back out my solar output spiked by 25% normal output. I suspect the water droplets were functioning like tiny magnifying glasses.
Concentrating light for improved power output is a great idea. Two complications not mentioned come to mind. Lenses to concentrate light will also be more affected by dust, leaves, bird droppings and other wonderful impediments that will decrease available light. Also, photovoltaic cell lifespans may be reduced by increased intensity of light itself along with higher temperatures. Even so, I imagine that engineers and scientists can find ways to work around such challenges. Just remember; things take time.
13:45 Hell yes I love hearing about this stuff and I think this is a huge game changer for solar.
I think that triple junction cells can be printed on large plate glass with ribs to focus light and absorb small wavelengths at the top and allow longer wavelengths to pass deeper into the structure.
What happened to the cheek shadows?! Lol only guy on CZcams with that crazy style man 😜
Thanks for your work, you got a good channel going here
Just to throw something in to this interesting and important topic. Greenhouses can have automatic opening windows, when the temperature rises. They use some kind of mineral wax, in a piston. Possibly could be used in a mechanism to track the sun, which could be less complicated than electric motors etc...
That would be so cool! I want them. We only have a limited space to put on our panels and this would cover all use:)
I wish someone would make sheets of reflectors like that so it could be placed on older panels in the winter to help compensate for the more overcast days and lower sun.
Very exciting progress which reminds me of another exciting idea I hope you might have interest in researching. It was some kind of covering plastic like layer placed over a PV panel that did not block the part of the light spectrum the PV panel absorbs but did convert the red end of the spectrum which PV panels don't use to a usable wavelength to produce substantial increase in efficiency. This layer could be added to most any PV panel being made. Have you read anything current on that application?
nice idea! I had it 2 years ago, playing catchup well
"The cost of solar panels has dropped dramatically in recent years"
Well, funny thing is, when asking for a quote to equip my roof with solar panels, I don't notice any drop in price anywhere...
Nice informative video.
Love this topic. Excited for technology solutions. Thanks Two Bit... I dub thee Four Bit!
The active cooling combined with the new thermal energy generation that was demonstrated recently by Penn State seems like a good match. Small areas generating high heat might be a good way to go, provided the costs can be kept down. I can picture liquid cooling behind the panel using radiator fins to pass the heat to a reservoir, and then harvesting the thermal energy for electricity. This assumes optimal temperature ranges overlapping, of course, but the potential seems worthy of investigation.
Also, by using a medium with high heat density one could potentially store the energy for later harvesting (at night, for example). If combined with some variants of wind, again assuming costs are reasonable, there are high potential gains here.
Third comment actually: another thing I like about the CPV systems is that the actual cell is protected by the spacing/material from the magnification.
By the way, sticking a flat mirror in the garden - bouncing sky light through an un-sunlit window really works well, no tracking needed. See my other posts for my version of the concept in this video. Efficiency is irrelevant if it's free lighting.
For years I have been advocating the use of solar thermal rocket propulsion in space. The large low mass/area mirrors it requires can also be used for PV for concentrated sunlight. This means that after using the solar thermal to achieve escape velocity from LEO the PV is rotated into the focus to power solar electric propulsion. For Mars the power can be beamed down as microwaves from orbit to power surface operations.
A couple of points.
1) For Solar to replace fossil fuels we must have storage. If you are going to compare solar costs to fossil fuel costs, the cost of storage must be considered.
As an example, California has changed the incentive system to make solar installs marginal investments (at best). However, if you have a battery, the incentives are better. (Even with a battery it is not clear a system is a good financial bet for a home)
2) If there is active cooling on the system, the system is going to be far too complicated for most homes. (At least for the foreseeable future). However, for commercial systems it might be feasible.
Note: There have been a few commercial attempts at solar concentrators that were a complete financial bust. However, that does not mean it is impossible to make it work. It just means the technology they used did not work commercially. Different approaches may still be viable.
Future looks bright Mate!
1:52 Just a quick comment... when talking about the cost of solar, you should try to find the cost without government subsidies. Those subsidies are taken out of our taxes, which means we're still paying it, just not upfront. Those additional costs-through-taxes should be accounted for when discussing the cost of solar when compared to other forms of energy production.
subsidies aren't taken out of anyone's taxes. Solar has a tax credit, so if I made 100k and owed 20k in taxes, going solar, allows me to keep my own money... and its not easy to do anyway, because governments subsidize oil and gas in a big way. so very tricky
4:54 ... concentrating solar energy onto a cell increases the heat which decreases efficiency... so how can they say it improves performance? I'm confused... is that performance a comparison to non-concentrated solar cells?
Wow this is a huge improvement honestly.. 💥💯
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Use direction optimizing lenses on top, then optical solutions to consentrate the perfectly angled sunlight in masses and finally capture it with a small solar/heat cell. 3 layer design should work better than dual or single layer. Consentration raises heat levels too, so the smaller cell should also be able to take energy from heat too.
AWESOME!
Interesting tech experiments. In most places getting better low-light (cloud and winter) performance is more important than this, so as to reduce the amount of seasonal storage needed alongside the PV farms and increase the guaranteed power output to the grid- increasing annual capacity factor. Bifacial panels (that use light reflected off snow) are important here.
The real game changer will be roll-to-roll printed perovskite PV: way cheaper than anything that uses glass or silicon, and efficiencies up to 40%, lightweight and super quick to deploy.
I already use two white plastic reflectors to "add" light to my small solar panel. That alone much improved my charging time on a car battery
Radio shack had kits with lenses on top of solar cells a long time ago. It was in every hobby kit back in the early '80s. Also, there was a company in the '90s that were using diamonds to do the same thing.
Good ole radio shack
One thing they could do is set the higher concentrated lenses around the outer part then have cooling in the middle. Run excess heat to an extra battery to store extra energy through the thermoelectric process. By doing this the wires would have to really move while the panel moves. Just have a connection box and create just enough slack to prevent damage.
This is BIG. Can't wait for real production version - that would be amazing, having 10kWp array replaced by, let's say, 50kWp with smaller footprint, having more room for green roof to slow down rain water...
This is so big, if it only where not just a prototype fantasy. Less then halve this stuff actually makes it out of the lab. Don't believe the hype. That is just too attract investment. Scientist and engineers need a salary to.
3:14 I wouldn't sponsor that drawer 😂
thank you for refraining from saying this is a gamechanger.
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The cost of panels in the UK has gone up for the first time. I paid £5,000 for 4kW of PV and now it costs about £7,000. The thing is I'm a reseller and I know the wholesale price for the equipment hasn't changed, so the installers are just ripping people off. Yes they have reasonable cost increases but not £2,000 worth.
looks like good for winter...
Concentrating light from a larger area to a smaller area, besides increasing the light fluence (intensity) increases the amount of infrared (heat) as you point out.
A thermodynamic rule of thumb is that for every 10 deg C increase in temperature, the MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure) will halve (BellLab research, 1980s) Loosely translated: there's no free lunch.
I can't imagine solar ever being cheaper that coal/natural gas. The cheapest whole house solar setup for a 9000 watt system is still $16,000+. My average electric bill is $120 a month. That's 15 years+ and all I have to do is flip a switch. I'll stick to the grid. I love your videos. For a complete description of any subject you cover there's no one in your league. 👍🏻❤️💯
🤗🤩🤩😎👍REALLY FASCINATING,RICKY 💚💚💚
It sounds like you need the Stanford concentrator and the backing to be used for solar water ' heating ' to assist in cooling the panels.
Would it be possible to use a simple layer of water between the cell and the lens? As water diffuses incoming light allowing better spread and could be used as a coolant. Or perhaps a more viscous liquid with reflective and cooling properties?
The heat issue is quite substantial, which makes me wonder if light concentration really pays off if the substrate breaks down faster. The spot increase of electric potential with a concentrator needs to be offset by any longevity issues.
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just make an ocean array of solar panels
Fresnel lenses have been historically important in architecture since they were first used in lighthouses. This could be the next historically important use.
In western Washington I have not had to clean my panels since they were installed 3 years ago. The pitch of my roof is just enough that they self clean but also allow the northern side of my roof to get sunlight so I can put more panels there.
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The heat will probably be the biggest issue.
But if u could use latest topology materials, u could reroute the heat completely into a TEC turning it into electricity as well. Or just for heating.
This could retrieve that lost energy while keeping the cells cool
Unless these panels can be aligned like normal solar farms so we can wash them with our brush systems, the wash cost will rise min four Times, we started machine washing over 7 years ago when hand wash was 30p U.K. a panel , we now wash below 10p , if a farm is close to mains water has a good boarder between end of panel run for equipment to turn round also clearance gaps between the panel rows, then sound firm ground well drained, NO cables above ground, prices for wash can be £380 per Meg on 30 to 70 meg farms, however in U.K. most farms are 5 to 10 meg these can cost up to £500 per meg or more depending on overground cable runs or if they must be cleaned at night because of the shadowing problem, IF these new panels can’t take machine washing, they will need self cleaning systems fitted to them that will kill them dead, one thing I can say for 110% cleaning the panels is vital maintenance that’s a fixed cost not going away, 👍
Well done video and you've hit on the most important factors of where we are now and what is possible in the future. But only rich people will have this newer high tech solar cells due to the price when it hits the market. For a typical middle class home owner, this stuff is a lot further away then 2027. Try 15 to 20 years at least. At some point in the far off future, we will have "free" energy. Right now, solar panels are pretty much a wash in reality and far from free. You pay $35k-50k for the panels that in reality last for about 20 years tops. You save about the same amount with luck, on energy costs. So it's basically a pay now for your energy upfront. When the technology is there for using the suns energy much more efficiently, with a system will cost X amount and you save 2X amount in energy before the system has to be replaced, then it will actually be a help to more of the population. Right now this looks more like a money maker for installation companies and a BS sales pitch for politicians saying it is all free and will completely replace our dependence on fossil fuel right now.
Brilliant! In retrospect this is obvious. Seems wide open to innovations to improve it.
Retrospect? I thought it up 30 years ago - as did many other people in this thread.
@@tortysoft It’s very obvious, many others MUST have thought of it. I’m just embarrassed I DIDN’T.
Thank you for doing this video and I found the information very informative and hopeful.
I have been following this technology for a very long time and I am a firm believer that solar is the way to go right now especially since it means we can possibly eliminate fossil fuel forever.
In fact, if you really think about it. If we took every single building in the world today from houses to commercial buildings and parking lots and cover them even in the current solar panel technology we can produce a lot of energy to help make our lives a lot better. Because that energy can go to run LED lights on our streets, parking lots, homes, offices and the energy can also be used to recharge our electric vehicles and any thing else that we needed to do.
Furthermore, it's also a good area to invest money into since if you have an IRA or some sort of money market funding you should be putting your money into this type of technology because it's a win-win solution.
More of these! Right on
TY!
you bet!
That's badass!
Is there a way of capturing a thermal heat from concentrating said light if it is could you use it in different systems like water heater Heating in the winter time thank you
storage cost is the real stopper for many of us at this point. any average day i don't use much energy. but many days i use 50 times more and those days are not negosiated. the capital cost of dual systems has stopped many of us from even considering solar.
i am dabbling with 1000x sun solar cells used in space applications. I am finding the Fresnel lens costs can be as much as the cell themselves, plus optical efficiencies with concentrating light arent great, take much of the gains away. The other problem is tracking is required and clear skies are mandatory. So how are these more efficient overall? The big savings is in weight, so portable trackers are possibe, meaning for camping, cabins, etc.
Wow! I was going to post that the sit-stand desk at Costco was probably cheap enough that you could buy your own top to add onto it... but the ErGear is friggin cheap!
Form factors and match for use is a big piece of this that isn't factored in with the understanding of what options there are.
Efficiency is most important in winter when it's cool and sun is rare. In summer there is usually enough energy from solar. So cooling shouldn't be that big an issue. Of course we would find some use for higher output during summer, but for me it's most important how I get through the dark months.