The Closed Curse Of DarKastle - Busch Gardens Williamsburg | Expedition Theme Park
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- čas přidán 31. 07. 2018
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Join us on Expedition weekly as we look at one of the most impressive dark rides in the US. Curse Of Darkastle which was closed without warning during the 2017 season at Busch Gardens Williamsburg.
Links and Sources
buschgardens.com/williamsburg/
www.falconscreativegroup.com/en/
www.oceaneering.com/
Hawg Gnarly - • RIP Curse of Darkastle...
CastleOSullivan - • (original) DarKastle R...
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The worst park about the closing is they never gave an official closing date so like you mentioned there was no opportunity for one last ride. I feel like that is a slap in the face to fans of the ride including myself.
One of the coolest things (literally) was the way they blasted utterly frigid air onto guests waiting the queue. Their AC bills must have been enormous.
Lol, didn't they though
This why when they built pantheon they asked James county to add a extra grid to the park to power the park
Frigid air feels great when it’s hot
This. I have such clear memories of being frozen solid in the queue, no matter how miserably hot it was outside
I grew up and live in Virginia. I loved this ride. Can’t believe they closed it without warning.
Same, makes me mad
Mike Whochie this. We at least got a replacement for the Big Bad wolf
same , it was one of my absolute favs as a kid :(
same! i visited this ride every single (and sometimes more than once!) whenever i would go to busch gardens. it’s still sad to walk past the empty building
This was the first amusement park I have even been to I was born here and now so can’t ever say goodbye to the ride.
I understand closing the attraction but not replacing it with something new still leaves me scratching my head. I know 3D screen simulator rides have been overused by now but at the time it opened DarKastle was pretty impressive.
Theme Park History yeah I find it very odd that it's just an event space now. And for it to be dormant for most of the year it just seems very out of place theming wise in that part of Germany/Oktoberfest.
Also I think Busch Gardens could've gotten away with it since it's the only one in the park
Theme Park History Probably because of SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment losing money 😭
I thought the Battle for Eire is now where this was?
ikr
I was told by an employee the reason Darkastle closed was because when they did frostbite, apparently the people walking over the sensors constantly it ruined them beyond repair so the ride could no longer properly function.
GOD if they just updated the ride’s graphics and changed up the storyline for the current audience, this ride could have definitely competed with its Universal and Disney siblings. It had such an original concept that fit in with Busch Gardens, instead of pulling from a major franchise and letting its fandom do half the work. Besides, park goers are only getting bored with the “movie in a box” method with Universal and Disney is because in 2018 they KNOW they can do much better than that. Instead they plugged up Fast And Furious, Transformers, Despicable Me, Simpsons, and to a lesser extent Harry Potter instead of relying on an even combination of practical physical effects and vehicles. DarKastle was that breath of fresh air because it was something you didn’t find in the movies or in a comic book, but from someone’s actual imagination and made it more valuable than getting a clone of its technology but with Optimus Prime and Vin Diesel spitting what consumers want to hear.
To be fair, Disney doesn't do TOO many screen rides. As in, there are more regular dark rides that don't rely on screens than ones that do.
True. Universal though has definitely exhausted the sin of "movie in a box" syndrome.
Blast22 Harry Potter is actually going to be getting a new ride at Universal with more physical effects I believe
I think I would have died if they updated the graphics on this ride instead of get rid of it. I know that would never have happened, but seeing my favorite ride revamped? Yes please
Omg! I went on a long rant the other night just about this 😹
Wasn’t always that way. It’s so sad seeing all my favorite thrills from my childhood go to the big theme park in the sky.
so sad, i didnt even realize this ride had closed until i saw this pop up in my recommended! yes its outdated, but man, this really had the best theming in the park, i loved the queue, the idea of it all.....shame to see it go, soon busch gardens parks will be more event space than theme park 😓
Sadly. Mostly all amusement parks are like this now. Too mainstream. It's all about the roller coasters and event shows. Specially what universal is turning into. There is no family fun rides.
Closing Darkastle just pisses me off immensly. Just a great dark ride during the hot summer was enough to make it one of my favorite BGW attractions. BGW should have refurbished Darkastle into the VR ride while simply updating Europe in the Air with a higher quality film or better yet a new Corkscrew Hill
RIP Corkscrew Hill 😭😭😭
The Battle for Eire ride that replaced Europe in the Air is a fun ride, but it's not nearly as creative and doesn't have nearly as good of an atmospheric design as Corkscrew Hill had. I think the park in general wanted to lean away from the overly scary rides to maintain its family friendly persona, and all that did was make it more generic and less memorable.
I FEEL YOU, MY GUY!
Hey, at least we have battle for eire to be honest
I was fortunate enough to be able to ride Curse of Dark Castle a few times before its VERY abrupt closing. I went to Busch gardens Williamsburg twice and rode this both times- loving it each time- and when I went for a third time to the park and found out that it had been closed- JUST recently closed when I went that third time- I was actually so sad! It was so unique and I loved all the theming that went into the entirety of this ride, I love simulators and the story/history for this ride was so good and I had considered this ride to have been a hidden gem among other simulators in different parks, I was so sad when it closed.
I could totally see a monster mash type ride where you follow van Helsing through the victor Frankenstein castle to stop werewolf,vampire,Frankenstein monster,Dracula
I had no idea this closed!!! This ride helped me get over my fear or dark rides and roller coasters. It was definitely a cool ride!
this was a family favorite and we all miss it so much. mom and I went to the park recently and it's still so weird seeing it just standing there and not being able to ride the ride. that being said, I am excited to see how DarKoaster goes and to see how they tie in the theming of DarKastle into DarKoaster. DarKastle will live on in our hearts 🙏
One of the absolute best dark rides shut last year.
DAMN. That’s devastating. 😞
God-tier Basement Dweller Those cheeky sods.
You’ve got to love the early 2000s rock music in the advert. Really like the theming for this. The idea of having a house at a Halloween event inside the ride is a great idea. Shame that it didn’t get any updates though
I remember being a small child who had a pass holder thing to BGW when I lived there with my family before we moved. We would go to BGW pretty often. I remember hating this ride because it scared me but I kept going on and it and eventually got over my fear. I never knew that it closed down until now and it breaks my heart to hear that a childhood ride of mine got shut down. this theme park in general played a huge part in my childhood since I went to BGW so often and also went on this ride so often. RIP
Same, I didn't feel like riding on it when I went 4 years ago.
Darkastle had definitely seen its better days by its closing time. We sort of figured it was happening when they put the Howl-O-Scream maze in there and was pretty confident about it when they put Santa in there. It was a good ride we enjoyed many times! ~Dawn
Just Out 'n About no joke I went on a field trip for school a year ago and at the fireplace scene, the projector just showed a windows pop up! Other than that glitch this ride has always been a nice fun break from the VA heat and it will be missed.
Dennis Velez yes the A/C will definitely be missed! 👍 But we did enjoy the ride, it just needed some work bad. ~Dawn
Amazingly, the ride ran on Windows 2000 which was already long out of date by the time the ride opened. I saw what looked like a Windows Media Player screen at the end of the ride in the early years of operation. My brother couldn't stop laughing.
CastleOSullivan seeing the windows pop up was definitely one of the best experiences of that day, but no one else got why we found it funny
Why does every non-Disney/non-universal park hate dark rides?
They are expensive
Efteling in The Netherlands is the only non-Disney/Universal park I can think of that opened a major dark ride recently. It’s called Symbolica and it is currently the 4th dark ride in the park. But the insanely high construction costs (symbolica cost around 35 million euros) as well as the high maintenance costs make it impossible for many theme parks to afford such an attraction. Roller coasters in general attract a lot more people than dark rides and they are much more affordable.
Monster mansion in six flags over Georgia is a classic that's amazing. Give it a look or a visit. You won't be disappointed.
swierczek2543 I would if it wasn't on the other side of the ocean
Symbolica in the Efteling is quite impressive, but it costed a ton of money. Guess it needs to fit a park as well, Efteling for example is all about heavy-themed rides. I don't see for example Six Flags do the same thing, they much prefer spending money on some big coaster.
Omg I remember being so scared of this ride as a kid! I can't believe they got rid of it.
I remember being scared of this ride a year ago
Arguable one of the best (if not the best) dark rides outside of Disney/Universal and not that far below the quality of some of the Disney/Universal attractions of the same time period. This was always one of those "must ride" attractions every time we went to BGE. It really is a shame that they removed it.
I’m crying dude. I have so many memories in dark kastle. One of my favorite rides
BGW is my home park... very mad about the closing of Darkastle. If BGW has money for a giga coaster, why rip out the best dark ride in Virginia? Very possibly the best dark ride on the east coast, excluding disney. I remember being furious, there was no warning, no last rider event... I would've liked to say goodbye. I still enjoy BGW, but now there's no true dark ride like a true THEME park should have... just a basic VR attraction. Not even Europe in the air remains either. While yes, Seaworld isn't in a good economic standpoint and the ride often glitched, maybe spend money on existing attractions than rip out money for a Giga, just my opinion.
zoe a lot of the original rides I’ve grown up with are gone. Like big bad wolf
Kings Dominion is better.
Lots of people say this stuff about closed rides, but when you ask them... "How many times did you actually ride it"... it's usually very few times in the grand scheme. These rides aren't popular re-ride attractions. Kind of like... been there done that after the first run. Unlike coasters and other thrill rides that you can ride a dozen times every visit to the park and still not get old. This ride is old and done after a couple visits bringing different friends who haven't seen it maybe. By the 4th time, it's boring and old news, not worth the wait if there is a line at all and if the lines start forming, it's doomed to the scrap heap. It becomes a waste of valuable land, money and maintenance time.
i was growing up as a kid Riding that park
zoe honestly same opinion
This ride…. I have so many emotions about it. I grew up going to Busch at least once if not up to five times a year and I LOVED Dark Kastle. It was one of those rides we had to do every visit since it was so iconic. I used to ride it with my eyes closed and hands over my ears because I was so scared as a kid lol. I was heartbroken when it closed because I didn’t know until it was already gone. I was feeling nostalgic, so my sister and I looked up a ride through and both of us were quoting the entire thing. It felt like I was still on it, and watching this is literally making me feel like crying because I miss it so much. The fact that the building has been sitting there ever since just feels like a spit in the face.
I never liked roller coasters a whole lot, so Curse of Darkastle (among other attractions but I digress) was always my go-to. I was so sad when I'd heard of its closure. Man, I loved this ride so much.
I live in North Carolina, and I regularly visit Busch Gardens Williamsburg. This ride was my favorite ride in the entire park, and the theming rivaled that of Disney parks. It still hurts knowing it’s closed. The castle is still there essentially abandoned. I really wish they would’ve revamped it.
This was my childhood! I used to ride Dark castle over and over again when I was a kid every time I visited Busch gardens. I’m so sad they closed it!
I remember riding this opening year and liking it so much more than Spider-Man.
I remember going on this ride and being spooked by the loud slam of the doors when you go to your seat. The 3D glasses were also so cool and new for me when i visited! I remember being spooked by when i would turn my head and there would be a giant goblin in front of me. The ride would also blast you with some of heat and at the end some water, it was cool. It was one of the best rides at the park so when it suddenly closed everyone at school was talking about it.
Great video. People have no idea how good this ride was. One of the coolest rides ever. Nice change of pace to the other rides in the park. Very puzzling to hear the reason for its demise. Refurb for 3D could not be that high. Could it? They supposedly paid 50 million for Verbolten, not sure of cost for Invadr.
Darkastle was my absolute favorite ride because that used to be the only thing I could ride when I was younger (due to A fear of rollercoasters but that issue has been solved). I was just there last week and was excited to ride it with my boyfriend just to find out it was closed. Didn't know it was permanent. So sad I didn't get to say goodbye
I’m really sad they shut down DarKastle. It was one of my favorite rides at Busch Gardens Williamsburg. The story sparked my imaginative young mind, and the ride itself was incredibly fun. I’m going to miss it.
This was such a fun ride! I’m glad it came back with a sequel!
One of my favorite rides at the park. It and Corkscrew Hill were awesome to ride on hot days to cool off. Though the past few years there’s barely ever been any lines for Darkastle and Corkscrew Hill was replaced by a TERRIBLE Sourin’ knock off. Shame.
Now Corkscrew Hill has become a VR Ride... Astounding, I know... (sarcasm)
I actually enjoyed europe in the air, didnt know people didnt like it
Excellent work! When they posted that goodbye video earlier this year, I got a little teary eyed. It sucks to lose such an original, great dark ride.
BGW is the only theme park that me and my parents would go to during October. But I’m not even surprised or shocked that DarKastle has been closed. Because I’m not even angry about it, as a matter of fact I’m glad that BGW has finally made a Halloween event called Howl-O-Scream which that I have become a fan of scary Halloween events!
when I was five years old, my three favorite rides at BGW were The Big Bad Wolf, Curse of DarKastle, and Corkscrew Hill, and now all three of them are gone which is SO depressing. I am glad that Corkscrew Hill has the new Battle of Eire ride and BBW was turned into Verbolten, but it’s crazy to think of how much the park has changed since I was little.
the ride was good when i first rode it, but after a while it was like watching a video in 144p
Your videos make me happy
BGW is my home park. Honestly the best version of the ride was when it first opened. Spinning in the dark into the ballroom scene was the best part. I can’t help but feel the updated scenes were trying too hard to be “scary” when the park realized people weren’t reacting the way they had hoped. The inclusion of Ludwig in the update having a snake for a tongue always bothered me, not because I don’t like snakes, but because that power had nothing to do with Ludwig’s wolf abilities, was never pre-established, and was clearly put in in an attempt to be more “frightening”. The weird part was you could clearly see the difference between the new animations and the old; Ludwig looked completely different, as did the wolves. It was especially jarring in the music room segment. Another change not mentioned in your video was the hallway with the portraits of young Ludwig and the King and Queen. Originally you went down the corridor and the paintings of the King and Queen would fade out leaving only Ludwig’s. In the update the car came to a halt with a voiceover of the Queen and Ludwig. I forget what the Queen said but Ludwig would say, “Come now, mother, it would be a blast!” Followed by a blast of AC at the car going back into motion past Ludwig’s portrait, which was the only one clearly visible. I’m not quite sure how much care BGW had for this ride. For the longest time one of the screens had some sort of silverware sticking out of it (and I swear I always saw a stain of some sort on the scene where Ludwig’s face shapeshifts into a wolf face) and I’m sure the maintenance costs were high since the ride frequently shut down during its final years of operation. Honestly? Bring back Wilde Maus.
The heck with the Wilde Maus..I wish they'd bring back the old school Glissade roller coaster :)
J Mill Oh whoa! Old school!! That was closed 3 years before I was born lol.
Yea it was removed when I was 1 haha. But have you seen videos of it??? It's in Mexico now and still looks like a LOT of fun!!! I've ridden "Die Wildcatze" which runs up at Adventure Park USA in Md and its still a blast as well.
Haha, I thought me and my mom were the only ones crazy enough to think that spot on the screen was a spoon! It became an inside joke of ours.
If the rumors are to be believed, Sand Serpent is going to be transformed into a dark ride, which BGT ( *my* home park) desperately needs. So, I can't let you have it back lol
I can’t believe they would say low ridership! That ride always had a line every time I was there it was amazing! on busy days I remember seeing that line all the way out the exit of the queue line They are so stupid for letting it go😢
I clicked on this because I love the channel. Then it unlocked a memory I forgot I had! I personally never went on it because I was a scaredy cat. But my mom did and she loved it! She still has the souvenir cup we got in the gift shop on our vacation
And now we have the DarKoaster kind Ludwick has resurfaced! I rode the ride!
I didn't know this closed!!!!!! I loved this ride, I'm so sad!!!!!!!!!!! This was such a well themed, story driven ride!!!!!!!!
Coming back to this video, I am so happy that they finally chose something to hopefully (if not live up to the iconic DarKastle) will be just as amazing as this ride, looking forward to DarKoaster ✨
The drop was honestly pretty amazing. It may have just been the fact that I was a kid, but I always felt like I was actually falling :)
THANK YOU FOR DOING THIS VIDEO! My wife and I rode Darkastle many times. I remember watching the promo/opening video with the creepy dancers in 2005. It’s hard to be excited about anything that’s come to Busch Gardens in recent years. As you said- it’s hard to find rides like this outside of central Florida and I’m so bitter I never got to say goodbye.
It makes me so mad that they never even attempted to replace it with anything. Its literally one of the best themed places at the park (and the park is really nicely themed already). And they just let it sit there.
They’re replacing it with darkoaster! Coming in spring ‘23!
@@gabriellarodriguez1589I’ve rode it and god it was amazing
I remember seeing promotional material for this as a kid! It's great to see it put into context of the park and dark ride history in general.
Great video and put together very well. Top notch work as usual. As well great live stream the other day. Keep it up.
Thanks Mark!
I LOVED this ride, I got to get into the opening free in 2005 with my mom and her coworkers because where my mom worked sold Busch Gardens Tickets and we were one of the first people to ride the ride, and even got in before the park opened
I remember riding this when i was like 6 and it was instantly one of my favorites from the park. I remember the trees, the portrait hall, the mothers ghost, and the werewolf really vividly. I came back to Busch Gardens when i was 15 and found that the attraction closed. Im still mad that I never got to say goodbye.
the only dark ride ive ever been on, big part f my childhood
Its bizzare seeing an episode based on a ride ive actually been on for once. I love it
Any chance you'd do an episode on The Chiller at Gadv?
Yeah that would be a interesting episode actually
I had the pleasure of going to Bush Gardens in 06 and the only ride I remember going on is DarKastle. I loved it and it's sad to know that it just faded away like it did instead of getting an update. I got so into the ride, I talked back to it and if they get that kind of reaction out of me, they've done their job well. I would have loved to go back and ride it multiple times until I got sick of it. Sadly, that's not going to happen so I shall keep my memories of the ride close.
Fantastic video yet again keep up the great work brother !!!!!
Thanks for sharing. Great video.
Most of us BG fans were heartbroken when this closed. It was so much fun and always worth the wait.
I'm so sad to see this!! We were lucky enough to have been on this ride MANY times over the years. We are heading to the park for a vacation in June and I was looking forward to riding Dark Kastle. :(
literally this was the ride to go on when you wanted to get out of the heat
wow, not gonna lie, when i saw this video in my subscriptions my heart stopped-this was me and my family’s #1 ride not only at busch gardens but probably at any park........we had no idea it closed :( i have so many memories with this ride and they’re all so happy....i’ll miss ludwig and this amazing ride so much! this video was very well done and did the ride the total justice! i hope in the future we can get a darkastle the sequel and i love your channel!
Yeah such a shame! And thank you so much
As a person who worked there I can say this. It closed a year early. It was meant to be closed the next year but something expensive broke and they couldn't and wouldnt repair it since it was at the end of its lifespan. This happened during the transition to howl-o-scream in 2017.
I hate how abruptly it closed. I would’ve liked to know sooner so I could go ride it one last time
Can I just talk about how Busch Gardens has pretty much gotten rid of all my favorite attractions. First they close Corkscrew Hill, then they replace Castle o Sulivan with a stupid sesame street thing, they replace the 4D theater (I know a lot of people don't like those but I do.) and then this.
i remember riding it every single time i went to busch gardens because i only live an hour and a half from the park. for a couple years we didn’t have the money to go and next time we went it was gone. no warning, no last ride announcement, the sign was still up at the time but it was just chained off and only used for howl-o-scream stuff. it was so upsetting.
Through out its last 2 years of operation in 2016-2017, the ride would face a lot of downtime and maintenance issues. At some points going down 4-5 times a week for 60min to INDEF closer until next operating day. Mostly had to do a lot with the electrical for the system or a car triggering an E-Stop. These type of attractions are amazing and immersive, but unfortunately if they are not at a park like Universal or Disney where they have the budget and scheduled consistent maintenance, they have issues that can slowly build through out time. My major let down though was that their was no final ride or announcement of closing until the off season, and replaced it with nothing :(
To be fair though, the are where they put in DarKastle has seen many rides/exhibits, and it is awkward to get to and not as accessible from the main lanes of travel in Busch Gardens. Izzy /Wild Maus used to be in the same location, and there was even a dinosaur exhibit in the same spot at a time.
I accidentally kept my 3d glasses from this ride...still have em!
It sucks they didn’t announce the closing so people could do one last ride. My brother and I rode this so much that we were able to talk along with the video.
It also sucks that likely no ride will replace it given that they gutted the interior.
They closed it?? I loved this damn ride! It was so goofy and kinda creepy and just...I loved it!
I remember working up the nerve to ride this on a seventh(?) grade school trip several years ago (for context, I'm a big chicken and typically avoid spooky stuff), and I absolutely LOVED this ride. It looked super cool and foreboding from the outside too, it's a shame it's gone and I'm just finding this out. RIP DarKastle 😔
I went to Busch Gardens Williamsburg back in April for my senior trip, my friends and I were wondering about this attraction bc it was on the map but not open. We were wondering what happened to this ride lol
I remember riding this in the summertime simply because it was miserably hot and humid out, but inside the ride was COLD because of the theme!
I rode this ride not long after it first opened. I was afraid of it at first, but after some coaxing, I rode it and loved it! I'm sad that it's been closed. :(
Good to see the revival of this Kastles once glorious rain on the Octoberfest area
Literally my favorite ride, truly reminds me of Van Helsing.
Why do i vaguely remember riding this. It is like a deep distant memory from like 2010....
Seems to be a running theme with Busch properties that they don't plan on the on going maintenance of the rides, including updates in technology and scenic refreshes.
"The Jaws ride......the one that actually worked !" so cunty and accurate .... lol !!
Cunty and accurate that’s my moto ha
I get the feeling that they upset almost everybody in the state so now they are under hate pressure i'm sure
This was one of my fav at this park and I went to the 2017 hallowscream I had a feeling they weren't gonna have it back after that. That ride was already perfectly spooky oh well
Fantastic video! I loved this ride so much when I was younger. I used to go on it a lot because I was then too scared to go on the bigger rides when I lived in Virginia XD. I’m so sad to see it go, even unannounced. I was hoping to ride it again when I visit Virginia next year. And can you do the Big Bad Wolf next? I was able to ride it before they shut it down for Verbolten
How am I just finding out about this? This was one of my favorite rides there! It was great on those super hot summer days!
i had to laugh every time you said "bravaria"
That makes me so sad. I remember waiting for ages to ride it when it first opened. A whole 3 hours cuz it kept breaking down on the first day but I loved the ride. It makes me sad I couldn’t ride it one last time.
Well that just broke my heart. I had no clue it closed. It was my favorite ride in the park when I went a few years ago
I had the honor of riding this ride and it was Amazing loved it
ITS TIME TO HEAT THINGS UP
I rode this the first year it opened and I was enthralled by it. I loved the story the theme all of it fit so perfect. I rode this every year I went to the park after as well it was my favorite attraction in the entire park. I knew the second they put frostbite in that they wouldn't reopen it and I am still horribly bummed out by it. I wish they had kept this and ditched something else.
glad I went on it last year when I visited the park it had been a very long time since I went on it glad I was able to give it one more go before it closed
i loved this ride. there were multiple times i rode it that one of the screens wasn’t working or the effects were off so i get it. miss it
Bush Gardens Williams burg is only a 35 min drive and my parents like to get summer passes. I loved this ride, and would get on every time we came. Mistakes and all. At the end of the summer the ride was running. When we came back to find it closed my little brothers asked every employee who would talk to us what happened. Each time we got the same basic answer of that bush Gardens just replaced rides every few years to keep things interesting.
I feel that if they truly felt they had to get rid of the ride that they would have repurposed that gorgeous gothic Castle set for something instead of stripping it naked.
I am going to miss it so much.
I'm soooooo glad i rode it a million times that was such an impressive ride
Here’s what’s happening it will be literally frozen in time then years later we can renter it as an updated dark ride where the same story but it’s in Busch Gardens Williamsburg for real and wash rinse repeat
Where are people gonna go when they are hot and want to cool down? Also, please tell me I’m not the only one that has those creepy apple trees when you are about to turn on this ride engraved into your brain? Just me? Ok, that’s fine.
Awww I liked this ride it was one of my favorites there
They could’ve made the attraction based off of Bram Stokers “DRACULA” with a few bits from the original Castlevania Game...
The Gothic Castle and the Undead Spirits seemed perfect, all they needed was the king of the vampires!
Please do an expedition video for the Busch properties in Williamsburg!! Busch Gardens, the brewery and Kingsmill Resort would be an awesome history video I'd love to see you make.
2:03 Even though he said physical sets, I heard "physical sex". I really ought to socialize more.
Lol your right.
OH MY GOSH I GOT STUCK ON THAT RIDE WITH MY FRIENDS ON MY 15TH BIRTHDAY!!!
I actually rode Curse DarKcastle on my visit to Busch Gardens back in 2015/2016.
Wow I rode this a year before it closed, I remember being extremely afraid and my mom forcing me on it, it turned out to be very fun