I found it interesting just how little information was available on this workflow out there. This video and Greg's site seem to be the only comprehensive guide I've seen. Hoping to see support for these new file types expand across the web soon- this feels transformative.
I edit on a LG 42" C2 OLED. This is a pretty big game changer for my editing. It makes me want to go back through my entire catalog and start doing re-edits haha. Thanks for the export tips. I was having trouble at first figuring out which settings to use at first.
@gregbenzphotography I love it. Out of the box the color was a bit too blue, but after some calibration it works great for editing. Being able to see the black levels perfectly and measure image contrast is really useful. And now with this new lightroom update I forsee it being even better. It is my main display (I have an SDR ultrawide display in the side) and have had 0 issues with burn in or anything of the sort after almost a year with it. I recommend it to pretty much everyone now haha. I also have an LG C1 48", but it was just a tad too large for desk use, so I put it in my living room.
and where are you going to use those images? social media does not accepts hdr yet, except utube. printing does not care about hdr, this is a display related function. kinda useless
@petrub27 the file information will be pseudo HDR (basically it will compress the HDR range into SDR values, i.e. gain map) easier than if I were to do it manually while in SDR. It is subtle but noticeable in the highlights. I can use my display's full range to edit the image then easily export into an SDR approximation, while also retaining an HDR copy to host myself without having to edit twice. Previously i would have to disable HDR every time i was editing if i wanted to edit it properly for SDR content / social media, now HDR becomes an editing tool instead. That or i can create HDR timelapses / embed HDR images into HDR content much easier. I do wish social media would finally update to 10bit+, but doubt that happens any time soon.
This feature looks absolutely stunning on my iphone 13. It leaves me stunned knowing how much dynamic range and color information are not utilises simply for the fact that our monitors cannot display them
Appreciate all the knowledge I gained regarding the export portion from this video. Bittersweet features, as I feel there is plenty of information to be leveraged in the photos with the HDR function yet still wanting to present a balanced overall image for a vast audience.
Worth adding that point (tone) curve contrary the parametric (tone) curve extends to HDR without altering the image output. Other than that, awesome intro into the new feature. Thank you.
Thanks for the insights! My background is in film but cool to see HDR hitting the photography world. What I find weird tho is Adobe's decision to define HDR as x stops above SDR. Both SDR and HDR imagery are in some form tone mapped from raw data. It feels weird to on top of that express it with stops. The standard for HDR mastering is simply defined in nits which we can relate to our display brightness capabilities. Haven't done a whole lot of testing but it also feels like the data is clipping already before reaching max display brightness even when the range is set to full on my PA32UCG. Perhaps the actual internal limit is 1000nits? The image kept becoming brighter but it was just a brighter white rather than increasing the color. Could also be the capabilities of my display tho... Very bright color is still tricky to do in displays. Still it would make more sense to set a mastering nits rather than stops. The other oddball is that they use 8bit principle for their curve value range. This gets 'extended' in HDR but you can't just extend 8bit into more values. 10bit 1023 is the same as 255 8bit etc. It would make more sense to have floating point values with 0-1 being SDR and all above 1 HDR. This makes the scale theoretically infinite and also would allow for finer control within 0-1 range over just 256 steps. It's a matter of principle of course as it's just math but it creates a stupid misconception to an already complex system.
I believe stops are more intuitive for HDR in general, as they tell you how the image will actually be adapted to a user’s display (in a relative way). In my opinion, using nits for source levels data makes no sense (including for video where nits are the standard). You would not want to display in fixed nits except under fixed lighting, such as editing in a studio or watching a movie - in which case the fixed nits are really only appropriate because the lighting conditions are fixed (you’d get the same result with relative display under those conditions). In all other cases, the display needs to adapt for the ambient lighting or how the user has set the SDR white point. Otherwise, displaying the image with pre-determined brightness would be too bright or too dark. The actual displayed nits are best left to the OS and video subsystem to determine at the time of display. So the data is best understood in a relative way, and editing conditions should simply be fixed (at which the display would reproduce reliably at a fixed level - all you need is to set the SDR white point, minimum headroom and ensure no tone mapping). I hear you on the mixed units, it may seem a little strange. I think the goal was familiarity and that makes sense to me (though the SDR RGB numbers are color space dependent and LAB isn't an option for the SDR range of an HDR image, so you don't really have a reliable reference in this case for 0-255 either). I think you could just as easily argue for 32-bit readouts across the range, but I think stops for the over-range HDR values makes the most sense. That’s how the brightness is perceived by humans and that’s how you’d set reasonable editing targets. The jump from 2.0 to 4.0 is visually the same as the jump from 4.0 to 8.0. And stops are infinite too, you just aren’t seeing beyond the edge of the histogram (same way the curves work here, as well as curves/levels in 32-but PS because the histo and curve would be impossible to use without setting a reasonable upper limit in an unbounded domain). Adobe is displaying without tone mapping. You should be able to hit 1000 nits unless your SDR is set too low or you reduce the HDR range (which is a hard clip defaulting to 4 stops). I believe the limit in LR / ACR is 8 stops if you lift the limit to "full". The actual limit in 32-bit Photoshop is vastly higher, LR/ACR definitely have a limit - but it is based on stops and I believe would support up to 10,000 nits even if the SDR white point were dropped below 80 nits (which is typically as low as a photographer would set the display). So all the HDR limits here should support all our displays now and in the future. Are you potentially clipping a channel? You could run into color channel clipping even if the composite pixel value was less than 1000 nits. Ultimately, Adobe is using a different convention than video does to represent the data and that will seem strange to HDR video editors. I believe it’s a more intuitive way to think about data which will always be adapted to the display at the time of viewing and I wish video had done the same.
@@gregbenzphotographyThis is just as intuitive as davinci resolve's HDR Grading. Personally nits make no sense even in the video world. Only poace it makes sense is monitors. I'd much rather know how many stops above SDR White point my footage is than use nits as reference. Nits don't tell me much about the scene.
i notice how switching on HDR rescues highlights as opposed to bringing back shadow detail. Guess HDR monitors and HDR is about the higher end of the luminance range.
Labor of love. That video was extremely difficult to make, and I’m still not happy with it (color match isn’t great and SDR never looks very good). What Adobe has done for photos is generally lacking in video. They deserve high praise for making HDR photography so easy!
It’s a great video. And HDR is certainly fun to look into and player around with. But at the end of the day, I’m still not sure if it’s already the time for it. Yes, if you exactly know who you give the file to or you have your own website or some thing, that might be a chance of someone actually seeing a better image. All major browsers have just begun to support gain maps… Outside my photography, I don’t know anyone actually using an HDR monitor even today. So usually at least from my point of you, I have to edit for the masses which means editing for SDR . And especially if you printed I haven’t looked it up but I doubt that there are affordable print options that can do anything with HDR (if any). So for me it’s fun to see what the image could look like… but before I do at least 1.5 times the work for every image… I rather just edit for SDR from the get go… P.s. but unless I have missed it, I would certainly be interested to here your opinion on print images edited for HDR… or if you actually found a print service where this makes a noticeable difference. Thx
Everyone will have different opinions on when is the right time, but it is far more common than you think. Anyone who's bought a MacBook Pro in the last three years has a world class HDR display. Anyone who's bought an Apple display since 2018 probably has some degree of HDR. The majority of smart phones and TVs have HDR. The total number of HDR displays in circulation now might easily be over one billion. It is certainly hundreds of millions at the least. In my surveys of my audience, nearly 40% report having an HDR capable monitor already. You never hear about it because we haven't had the software for photography up until recently, but that is rapidly changing now. You can do it with no additional work at all. Many of the images on my site were SDR edits that I exported as HDR (using Web Sharp Pro, but you could also use something like a virtual copy in LR with some quick tweaks to make your own). You can of course get much fancier, but it's quite easy to create HDR once you understand it and there is already a pretty sizable audience. And with gain maps, your SDR audience will still see something great, so it's an easy transition. Your concerns are common concerns I hear from people who haven't really tried it, but I think you'll find aren't really an issue once you dive further into HDR. For printing, you should use the SDR and it's also very easy to manage that as well. This is all just part of the learning curve. More details: gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#printing
Printing will inherantly be only the 6 or so stops of SDR, HDR will only work for backlit transparencies, much like slides on a light table. Or, you know, using an HDR TV for displaying photo art.
This is just beginning but I can forsee a great future to this tech. Adobe could though give us the full package into Lightroom...for example, as I work with my MacBook Pro (HDR display) hooked to a Benq display (said to be HDR but actually not...), which is much larger (14" vs 27") if I'm in the develop module and set LR to show the image in the Macbook, it shows in SDR. To see the HDR version I have to move the main LR window to the small Macbook display...not right! (8-)...unless I'm loosing something...hope it comes soon...because once you've seen it, you can't unsee it ! Oh, Adobe Portfolio needs to support it too...
Greg, thank you so much for your hard work in making this video available!!! Everything in it was so direct, to the point, and concise, all of my questions were answered within the video. I’m so excited to have found HDR editing for myself and Especially the support of an educated professional having shared their knowledge and experience with this new technology/feature. I was just thinking, man I should try figuring out how to record and post a video about this feature so people could really get excited and start checking it out.. Nonetheless I’m truly confident, seeing you put this video out, that HDR will be The Next Big Thing in Photography!! Especially for the factor of sharing to media etcc Cheers! AK
Have you seen that Instagram now supports HDR for images captured and uploaded from an iPhone or Android (at least an S24)? Can’t really use Adobe edited files yet, but it’s great to see things already starting to get initial support.
@@gregbenzphotography Hyeh! They have! I ran a test posting a photo in most all formats and Avif HDR goes through! You Can post HDR photos taken by anything and edited in LR, exported as AVIF file. Tho it does look alittle soft.. I posted to close friends list to avoid any confusion, and it rendered fairly well. Give it a shot!!
Excellent video, thanks - I've been looking for a good resource to share to explain this technology to others, since it really impressed me - vastly more than anything else in the latest LrC update, and it's breathing new life into old photos. The CZcams app is a good workaround for not being able to see HDR photos on the web well. Sharing this with my photography pals.
HDR looks awesome, but, at the end of the day, if your goal is to share your work...don't 99% percent of people have monitors with SDR displays (maybe some new phones are close to HDR, but ideally, you want to display your bigger)? Also, for printing, you'll still have to print in SDR, as well. So, it's cool, but does it have a practical application at this point?
That's a common misperception. HDR is far more common than you think. In surveys of my audience, nearly 40% of them tell me they already have an HDR display. Any Apple laptop or monitor is already in great shape, with the last couple generations of MacBook Pro being absolutely stunning. In addition, the majority of smart phones and TVs support HDR (only the lower end models don't). I personally already own 7 HDR displays (iPhone, iPad, Android, Mac laptop, PC laptop, external monitor, and a TV). It's much further along than you think, mostly because the software for this has only recently become widely available. And with gain maps, you can easily get the HDR benefit and still provide a great experience for those with older displays. Printing is easy to manage. gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#printing Most of your concerns are really just a matter of the learning curve for HDR, it's much better than you think. The big gap right now is a lack of support from social media, but it's easy to share on your own website or in person on your own devices.
@@gregbenzphotography Thank you, so much for alleviating my concerns. I turned on HDR on one of my raw files of a friend sitting in a field, backlit on a hazy summer day and the photo went from very low in contrast to all of sudden having beautiful highlights and it looked more lifelike. And this is was on my M1 iMac that has 500 nits and isn't an HDR display, as far as I'm aware.
HDR is and has been supported for eons. Most SDR displays are much brighter than 100 nits even out of the box by several times, much brighter than the original spec made for CRT screens. People end up making their pictures too dark for print because of the expectation of a brighter, or more HDR monitor. Actual software management of HDR that's standardized in actual brightness level is more hard to come by and software is less forgiving, even colour management for p3 use by most decent screens isn't well supported.. it's a mess but if you push for it, developers will follow
Just an addendum, HDR supports more bits and tells the display to go brighter instead of needing to manually max brightness and then guess how bright their screen might get. HDR is just underexposure and bright display. More gamut and more bits means you get a more accurate representation of the 'underexposed' image on HDR displays.
This provides a compelling reason to always shoot in RAW, as your images can potentially look better years down the line. AI image enhancements are getting more popular enabling you to upscale and denoise images, and with HDR displays becoming more mainstream you can convert all your images you once shot to a a more cleaner, higher resolution HDR image.
Excellent job actually presenting this in HDR video! Simple workflow we've all been waiting for. Tried the mobile Lr, sadly HDR preview only works on some Pixel phones and while editing still works, 10 bit export can only be done into AVIF which seem to be either broken or otherwise incompatible with any avif viewer i could find. Strangely, some cropped exported images seem to work though colorspace still doesn't look right. And what do they mean by jpeg hdr export in the desktop app? Is it like a 10 bit JP2? 🤔
The JPG gain map is the best export option (while the base image is 8-bit, the final HDR is combined from a second image and has sufficient bit depth for HDR). The AVIF works in Chrome/Edge/Brave/Opera. Compatibility for both formats should only continue to expand. The JPG is 100% safe and will show as SDR where not supported. Which Android phone are you using? Hoping to see Samsung support soon (the S24 HDR images can be uploaded soon to Instagram!)
@@gregbenzphotography I have Oneplus 8 pro, HDR and wide gamut support comes and goes here despite full hardware capability. We've been dreaming of HDR since the late 90s so our patience has no limits by now )
Thank you. (1) You can use either approach, but the ultimate SDR quality would result from editing for SDR or manually converting the HDR through ACR. The SDR preview sliders give great results, but are global and you can go even further when you take full control of the SDR. (2) No, but you can easily support both HDR and print. Please see gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#printing
It's upgrading from SDR to HDR and taking liberties to enhance the image a bit. With ACR, it's consistent, but you're starting with an image which is already HDR (you don't get the button unless in 32-bit mode), so it does not adjust the image as you didn't technically start with an SDR source. Confusing, but makes sense when you dive into what it's doing.
This really is such an excellent video tutorial. I have 16’ M1 Max and didn’t even know its screen had HDR mode. Even more so because I edit my photos on a Dell Ultrasharp U2515H 2560 x 1440 monitor attached to the laptop. It truly has a stunning screen, it has to be said. But now you are talking about the HDR feature it seems (sadly) my time with it is coming to an end. I have played with some old raw images on my M1 Max today and I can see that extra possibility that HDR offers. May I ask you please, what HDR 32” (or up) monitor would you recommend to get?
My recommendations on a monitor: gregbenzphotography.com/review-best-hdr-monitor-for-photography/ The Pro Display XDR is amazing and I got a great deal on a used one myself, but still pricy even used.
@@gregbenzphotography Just to let you know, on your website I clicked on the link Free HDR Ebook. I filled out details, got 2 emails, one about confirming the subscription, and another containing the newsletter regarding Lumenzia masking. In that second email way down at the bottom there is a link to download the ebook. When I click on it, I’m led to a web browser which is infinitely showcasing web based cryptic text, best way I can describe it. I’m doing this on my iPad Pro at the moment.
This workflow is certainly rare as if the stills photography world does not care about HDR at all. Now that I've been playing with such HDR photos, something weird had caught my off guard. I am working on a MacBook Pro, which gives 1600 nits peak brightness, and LRC shows that on the histogram for full 4 stops of expanded histogram. What's weird is that, the develop module previews a much more capable color and brightness range than what LRC actually outputs. So my output settings are AV1F, HDR output to HDR Rec. 2020 space. LRC takes these parameters and outputs color profile Rec. ITU-R BT.2100 PQ, and this seemingly correct color management profile gives results that are way off from the LRC develop module preview. Color gamut is fine within SDR range, the mid tones and shadows, but not in HDR range. Bright colors definitely suffer loss of quality and depths, brightness levels are just completely off, the develop module shows more than two stops of highlight headroom than what it outputs. I am confused, there are so little information about this workflow, if anyone has any insight about this, please let me know. Thank you.
We haven't had a proper set of editing / browsing software and gain maps until the past 1-2 months. It's going to take a while, but I see good interest. The lack of social media support, limited HDR hardware (which is far better than most realize), and confusion are all understandable factors that take time for things to really grow. I've not seen any such issues. How are you actually viewing the output? The problem is likely in the viewing application. Try opening the output back in Adobe software and it should match (bearing in mind things like the LR library don't support HDR yet, so compare both in LR develop module).
@@gregbenzphotography Blimey! I just realized the Preview app does not support HDR functionalities at the moment, I had wide gamut and HDR mixed up! I also tuned off "View Full HDR" option for my photos app. Well, now I finally have a solid reason to turn this on, and I do get the final 1:1 result from LRC develop module to Apple's Photo app. This HDR rendition is just as stunning as if I was there seeing the scenes myself. Thanks again. Keep up your A+ work, I'm sure the photography world appreciates everything you do!
@@gregbenzphotography Photomator app just sent out emails about their full HDR support in the new version. They even mention turning SDR into HDR compatible content. We are truly just a tad beyond the verge of this HDR era.
Sadly my Benq SW270C doesn't seem to be supported yet even though it does have HDR. Hope they expand the range of supported screens I would love to toy around with this a bit - even though I reckon it will take time until I won't have to edit everything essentially twice and until PS does allow for HDR editing as well making Luminosity Masks and all my favorite tools usable.
That’s not an HDR display. It has 300 nits. The minimum is 400 and you really want 1000+ to get the benefit. Your display may accept an HDR signal, but won’t actually show HDR pixels. It’s confusing marketing. www.benq.com/en-us/monitor/professional/sw270c/spec.html Test #1 will tell you the exact HDR headroom offered by a display (SDR is 0, which a less capable HDR monitor will show if set too bright): gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#tests
Thank you for the informative video. Do you know if utilization of the full HDR capabilities in lightroom will impact the final output gap between compressed raw and uncompressed raw files? I currently shoot compressed raw as there seems to be little difference with SDR, but I am wondering if it would be advantageous to shoot uncompressed, due to the technological improvements in HDR.
Thank you very much for the information, but when I try to save my HDR edit, it doesn't save as bright and detailed when I look at the saved image? Any suggestions?
Hi Greg, Thanks for a great video intro to HDR in LR. I've found an issue that I wonder if you can address. When I export an HDR image that has more than +1 stop in range to JPEG XL or AVIF, the resultant exported file bears no resemblance to the image I see in Lightroom. I'm on a 16" MacBook Pro using the reference mode P3-1600 nits. The image looks great in Lightroom, but once exported the extra DR that is shown in Lightroom has a colour shift eg in the sky that is just bad. I'm viewing these files on a Mac where the AVIF file is opened in Apple's Preview app Can you shed any light on this? I would have thought the exported file to look effectively identical to what the screen shows in Lightroom, but it seems if it's more than +1 stop the image can't be rendered properly. Secondly, do you have any insights into how various social media platforms eg Instagram, FB, and Flickr deal with JPEG+Tone Map and P3 colorspace? ie what settings should we use in Export so an HDR image can be ingested into these platforms?
MacOS preview doesn't support HDR for web HDR formats yet (EXR and 32-bit TIF may work, they do in Finder). Anytime it works in one app but not another, you can probably assume the mangled one isn't supported or the app has bugs. There are definitely some holes in the ecosystem. Social isn't supporting gain maps yet, so I'd send an SDR there. If you send a gain map, send one encoded as sRGB as they are still stripping the ICC profile in many scenarios and this will cause wrong color when sRGB is assumed for a missing profile. It's kind of sad, as CICP / NCLX allow 4-bytes to encode which ICC profile is needed, so there is no size reduction benefit to stripping these profiles. Hopefully the future migration to AVIF and HDR gets these legacy profile issues finally addressed.
@@gregbenzphotography Thanks - that's what thought... so what do you suggest as the best viewing software for HDR (AVIF or JPEG XL) on a Mac and Windows?
Thanks so much for your vids covering this topic. My workflow is to do 90% of my work (which is mostly commercial) in LR Classic than import briefly into PS where I sharpen. Then save and close PS. I'll export all files thru LR. I just tried opening a file I processed using the HDR develop option and see that it opens as SDR in PS. When I sharpen the image (using Smart Sharpen) I get funny edges around highlights, which I haven't noticed previously. Other than using LR's sharpening what do you think of doing this on an HDR in PS? Thanks
Thanks for this video. Lots of great information. I was curious that on your exports you went to Rec 709. I am a DolbyVision Colorist and always trying to stay in a large color gamut and dynamic range. You said for Social media but CZcams can handle Rec2020 HDR and Instagram can play DolbyVision videos that are 10 bit HEVC h265. I don’t know about still images, do you. Will these display HDR on these social media platforms. My thought is to output P3, a much bigger color space then put into a movie container to display in HDR. Any thoughts on this? Thanks
Browsers generally handle wide gamut very well. However, social media very commonly strips the embedded profile. As a result, sRGB is assumed and anything else will become significantly de-saturated as the numbers are not properly interpreted. So the problem here is not the file you export, it's the terrible reprocessing which social media applies to it after upload. It prevents use of wide gamut. It's rather sad, as the size savings is typically like 900 bytes and they could just replace with a 4-byte CICP or NCLX code instead of a full profile.
Hey Greg, thanks for the speedy reply. That is unfortunate, indeed. For now I guess I'll continue to use my workaround of getting my stills into an HDR video of some sort so they will display HDR. Even in my work, I have a hard to convincing DPs and clients to work in HDR, until I show them the difference on an HDR display and they are blown away. Hopefully broadcasters and social media become more accepting of HDR over the next few years. I am so tired of limited SDR images. Cheers@@gregbenzphotography
@@javajack-1 You'll probably get better results with a gain map, as you control the SDR and limited HDR rendering (almost no support for that for video online; DV trim passes are ignored with online platforms that support DV). This provides substantially better results anytime your image encodes HDR beyond the limits of the viewer's display. If you publish on your own site, you can safely share wide gamut gain maps. That would be the ideal way to go. Adobe also has a service to serve HDR AVIF for HDR displays and SDR JPG elsewhere. This is not as good for those with HDR at a lower level than your image requires (still some tone mapping), but is quite good and very easy to use. I've got a video on that.
Hi Greg, thanks for the great video... I don't currently own an HDR monitor so I cant really test this, but a question comes to mind: is this supposed to be used specifically with HDRs generated with multiple exposure raws ("real" hdrs?) or can it be used also with just single exposure raw files? Thanks!
With both the old and new types of HDR, multiple exposures are almost never needed, that is especially true for this new HDR you see here. Key is proper exposure to the right, most people who need to merge exposures do so because the exposure was not accurate in camera.
By the way, your phone is probably HDR (Lightroom Mobile supports many) and your TV likely is too (see my e-book for how to connect to a computer with HDR support: gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/)
Great video Greg! I have a 2021 14" MBP and can edit in HDR in LRC no problem, however when I export to JPEG (with HDR sRGB) and use the image as a wallpaper; the SDR version shows in the gain mapped file. Any idea if Mac OS 14.0 supports HDR wallpapers?
So basically, I can edit my picture for the screens those support HDR. Is it so? If my own screen isn't supporting HDR, I will only be able to see SDR preview. Let me know if I am getting it correct. Thank you 😇
You can edit on any machine, but will need HDR support to actually see the HDR while working (ie very ideal). For sharing, you can send a gain map file which looks great on any display, even if HDR isn’t supported (falls back to a nice SDR version you control).
Greg, sorry for bombarding you with questions. Last 2: 1. What happens when you send the HDR image to Photoshop? Are you seeing the SDR version? The histogram in PS, is 0-255, so? 2. I noticed during the export portion of this tutorial that you have DXO PureRaw. Do you find the results from PureRaw superior to those from LR's recent Denoise feature?
Photoshop can't show images in HDR on the main canvas, but it can use the Camera Raw plugin to view, edit and export photos in the same way it is Lightroom, and that one does show HDR.
@@Maxoverpower @Pogouldiwitz Photoshop offers HDR display in 32-bit mode on MacOS when you enable the tech preview (gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#creatingPS). Windows support is not available at this time.
You need to open as a 32-bit image. The values should be sampled in 32-bit mode and will be 0.000 - 1.000 for SDR range and >1 for HDR (they can also go negative through editing strong colors). My thoughts on PureRAW vs Adobe Denoise: gregbenzphotography.com/photography-reviews/ai-denoise-lr-acr/
The vast majority of images are never printed, I think that’s a pretty good reason. And so is the ability to create something more lifelike than ever before. Easy to have both.
I have a new MacBook Pro 16 m2, when I process in HDR in Lightroom, the image shows perfect, when I export, and I open it it's washed out and look off, not the same I was seeing in Lightroom...how come?
Check the preview for SDR display in LR, if that’s a match to the “washed out” version, then you’ve exported a gain map and are viewing somewhere without support for HDR or gain maps. Otherwise, probably not properly exported (use JPG and turn on HDR output there).
great video!! however I have a question when I export the photo and I open it in photo application on mac the HDR effect will go away? I mean it feels like the HDR haven' t been activated when I preview it on the mac, can you tell me what may goes wrong?
Not all apps support all (or any) HDR formats yet. macOS Photos app supports HDR AVIFc otherwise HDR JPG (gain map) is best for browsers. The new Pixelmator can also create an HDR HEIF, which is supported pretty well on Apple devices.
Very interesting... But unfortunately it displays on Lightroom only on Development mode, also this not in full screen and I found nooooooo external viewer for JPG XL and JXL formats for Mac. And even Google Photos doesn't support those formats 😞 It has a lot of potential but it's too early, isn't it? (and I write this comment 6 months after your video).
It’s a regular LR feature now. Don’t use JXL, just use JPG with a gain map or AVIF. They are pretty well supported (JPG with a gain map is safe for any browser). Google Photos on Android supports JPG gain maps, not sure about all its various implementations though. Support is growing quickly. Even IG and Threads have initial support now. If you know how to encode and use the images, they work very well. Now is a great time to get started, but you’ll need to invest a little time to learn how to navigate mixed implementation at this phase.
I exported the photo as HDR but how do you open the HDR photo so it will show as HDR? I used my Macbook Pro to edit in Lightroom and when I open the photo in Preview it is still in SDR. I also used my phones and still SDR.
Need to use a supporting viewer, such as HDR JPG/AVIF in Chrome/Edge/Brave/Opera, or HDR AVIF with the native Photos app in the latest MacOS / iOS. Not all formats are supported in all viewers yet. Lots more detail at gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#eBook
When I use the 'edit in Photoshop' function in LR the tools/blending modes in PS are greyed out and only work if I convert the file to 16 bit. Am I doing something wrong? All help welcome ☺
32-bit has limited tools, sure you converted to 16? "Edit in" has no specific relevance here, it's something about the file conditions in PS. An HDR should open as 32-bits by default, and that works very differently from 8/16-bit PS.
Depending on how you watch (CZcams app supports HDR, CZcams in the browser does not), you’re either seeing real HDR or something tone mapped to SDR (the latter looked dark and drab, but does convey the gist of things). The gear icon in YT should tell you which you’re getting (says “HDR” where supported in playback).
I can see sdr for a second when I rotate my phone. Interesting. So there is no way to currently watch CZcams in hdr on desktop? I wish Flickr supported hdr too
@@gregbenzphotography thanks for all the information, I'll take you advice and send them a message. Seems like it will be the standard in the next 5 years or so
whats the best way to open it in photoshop, apply the effect after or before sending it to photoshop. I noticed that when I open it in photoshop using prophoto rgb 16bits it still wont open it with the same color and brightness depth range as lightroom does.
Thank you for the tutorial, however I've tried exporting a photo in HDR using all three versions LR, LR Classic, and LR Mobile, and in all the cases the exported JPG file doesn't show the HDR version, just flat overexposed image. Please help.
You need to use a supporting viewer. The HDR JPG will work in a browser. For something like the Apple Photos app, you’d use HDR AVIF. Eventually, all these formats ought to work most everywhere, but it’s new and support is uneven at this point.
I just starting toying with the HDR features via Lightroom and have a bit of confusion. When exporting hdr with various image formats and color spaces, the photo preview app on my imac 2020 does not show and HDR image. Im not sure if the apps Im using simply cannot display hdr or what the issue is. Lightrooms histogram though does say that my display is an hdr capable display however.
Because those apps do not support it. Most browsers support HDR gain maps (Safari does not at this time) and some standalone preview apps support HDR AVIF. Try both. If the image opens ok in Photoshop, it is good and the problem is that the other app does not support HDR. I would contact the vendor and let them know you're interested in HDR support. Things are improving rapidly, but there are certainly gaps in support.
@@gregbenzphotography I actually just sent an avif rec 2020 file to my iPhone and it opened in hdr but not on the preview app on my iMac. So I guess that also backs up your statement here.
@@WilliamTrostelPhotography Yeah, mixed support. The previews app in MacOS supports EXR (use sRGB since those files won't embed profiles), and I think it may support 32-bit TIF. Eventually, the most important formats (such as JPG / AVIF gain maps) should be widely supported. We just need a little more time.
Hello i tried this feature but my picture looks more flat than they used to do without exporting in HDR. Is there a specific way to export ? I got an iPhone 12 Pro that should support HDR but looks like I got an SDR rendering while opening the picture
Yes, this is initial HDR support and the display isn't shown in the library or all areas. You aren't losing the HDR data, but you won't see it full screen. Instead, click -tab to hide panels and twice to dim edges for something very close to full screen - but with HDR support in the Develop module.
my screen is hdr, but i don't see hdr indicator, just 4k, and there are no option for HDR in video settings.. And i checked it at the beginning, the sky on the first example looks better if i turning hdr off
This video will be tone mapped on an SDR display, so you’ll see a difference whether you have HDR or not. No idea what you are facing. Which settings? Operating system? See my tests, troubleshooting, and e-book for full details to see what you have and get set up (if your display actually supports HDR, and an HDR marketing claim is not enough, that might just mean it takes a video signal). gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#troubleshooting
@@gregbenzphotography windows 11, i have lg c1 oled tv, using as my display. When windows 11 in sdr, colors more vibrant, sky looks better). When i'm looking different videos through youtube tv itself recognize where are hdr, and showing hdr logo in the corner. For example in hdr demos. When as pc screen your video for example doesn't have the hdr mark, as i said before, just 4k in the settings
@@VlaViRus Do test #1 for headroom, needs to be >0 gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#tests TV may not be properly setup for HDR. If it is, might be browser, Chrome is most reliable for HDR.
No. LAB mode does not support HDR, you must work in RGB or Grayscale in Photoshop for HDR (32-bit mode). Maybe that will be supported in the future, but it would be a major change and I wouldn't count on it. There is almost no need for LAB anymore, you can pull almost all the same tricks in RGB.
guys the display of the macbook air 2020 should be hdr right? In lightroom I can see every hdr edit but once I export it even if hdr export is used I see a dull image don’t know what I’m doing wrong
It’s a 400 nits display, so it should offer a maximum of about 1 stop of HDR headroom if you limit brightness to half. See test z#1 gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/ If it works in LR, but not elsewhere on the same machine, either the export wasn’t done correctly or the other app doesn’t support the HDR format you’re using. Not clear what format and app you’re trying, but I’d suggest JPG with HDR output and view in Chrome for browser, or HDR AVIF to view with Apple Photos app in latest MacOS / latest iOS.
Ok, but what type of monitor is enabled for this HDR function? I have a Benq SW271 HDR (for professional use), but this function is not supported on Lightroom. The histogram HDR appears red and not enabled. (I work with windows, not with apple). It's a function that would be convenient, but I can't have spent €1400 for a professional monitor only two years ago, and now made it obsolete by this HDR function! To clarify, in the histogram, the part dedicated to HDR is red, and the monitor is not recognized by LR...!
That is not an HDR monitor. It only supports 300 nits (400 is the minimum and you want 1000+ to get a great experience). I don't believe Benq sells any HDR monitors yet (other than a reference monitor that is crazy expensive). More info: gregbenzphotography.com/review-best-hdr-monitor-for-photography/
Thanks a lot. Finally someone who gave me a concrete and real answer. So the problem are the 300 nits of my monitor... in short, I made a great investment buying it !!(ironic mode-on). Thanks also for link. Now i read it. @@gregbenzphotography
@@davidecavallini4430 Exactly, 300 nits doesn't cut it. 400 is the minimum, and that isn't very impressive. 600 nits on an OLED in a dark room looks great. But otherwise, anything less than 1000 nits isn't worth paying for an upgrade (nice if you have it for other reasons, but not compelling below 1000 nits).
Has anyone else run into issues with starting with HDR images for a focus stack in LRC, edited in LRC, brought into PS to focus stack and with 'Seamless Tones and Colors' - the HDR aspect is lost and the result seems like a bunch of dynamic range is lost and the results are not at all what you expect? It works without 'Seamless Tones and Colors', but then the edges are very visible. I know this is a PS feature, but since I started with editing in HDR all the way back in LRC, I was wondering if for focus-stacking, this is a feature to avoid unfortunately.
PS HDR support has some limitations, it's not nearly a smooth as working in LR or ACR - but you can still do nearly everything once you get over its much steeper learning curve (you'll need to adapt techniques in PS, where as the LR/ACR workflow requires minimal changes for HDR). I am not a fan of seamless tones and colors for focus stacking. It only works if PS gets a perfect mask, which is almost never the case. Otherwise, it prevents correction of the masks for blending the layers. So I wouldn't use it regardless of any HDR considerations. I would match the colors in RAW instead if needed. If interested, I show my full focus stacking approach in one of my courses: gregbenzphotography.com/focus-stacking-from-start-to-finish/
@@gregbenzphotography I think I need to use Loghtroom Classic for what you showed in the video. Lightroom itself on PC and as found on mobile devices does not seem to have the HDR knobs when exporting JPG. I will test S24 Ultra soon enough.
Thanks for your advice and excellent presentation. I get a really basic error message when using Export > HDR. The only preset showing is "HDR Projects 4 Professional" but the plugin is not installed in V13. When I select the Preset there are only two choices.... JPEG/TIFF, HDR sRGB (rec 709) / HDR P3. When I click Done there is an error message "Plugin not installed". Any ideas how to proceed?
Thats some third party tool you installed that created a preset looking for that tool, but it must have been removed since. I’d delete it. I created the export from scratch. Just set a new export to use JPG and “HDR output”.
I can see the results in LR but once exported it’s like SDR (I’m on M1 Pro), I’m not sure how to display the HDR version ? My Iphone should display it as well and nothing.
Not all software supports it yet. And software that does won't necessarily show all HDR formats. Use HDR AVIF for Apple Photos app and HDR JPG gain maps for browsers (note that iPhone does not support HDR photos in any browser, very much hoping to see WebKit support added).
Hey Greg, I have an XDR display, and even with the new update, if I have my display on full brightness, I am getting that "flickering" or pulsating experience where it is bright and then dims down (which feels like a whole two stops) randomly. I have the display attached to a Mac Mini 2023 M2 Pro with the Apple display cable - in other words - it's not transfer speeds. If I lower the monitor display, it sort of stops, but then I'm not looking at the true image. Would you happen to have any solutions? Is this an Apple issue or an Adobe issue?
Are you seeing the image change appearance while you are doing nothing at all? If so, that is a bug (could be MacOS or LR). I've seen something like that with ACR when using my external XDR display and I believe with multiple monitors, but I don't recall seeing it on the laptop's internal Retina XDR display. I never found a specific trigger, but it would only flash in the image area - the actual ACR interface around the image was not affected. Does that sound like what you're seeing? Have you found any conditions which reliably trigger it? Is your problem in LR or ACR?
@@gregbenzphotography My setup is a 2023 Mac Mini M2 Pro 32GB with two Apple 34" XDR Monitors attached with two USB 4 (Apple-made) cables plugged in. If I have both monitors at full brightness, I get dimming flickering, which happens randomly. Even if I lower the second display to zero, it still happens. If I lower the display where I am using LRC to about 80%, The flicker stops, even if the second monitor is 100% brightness. So basically, half the HDR panel is black with the new HDR function. Make sense? I can send you a 30-second video clip if that would be helpful. (I'm a Lumenzia user.)
@@JaimeCasap Sounds fairly consistent with what I've seen (external XDR display and possible multiple screens). I have not noticed any dependency with brightness, but have seen MacOS glitches when brightness is at maximum or one bar below - and it specifically goes away one bar below that. Feel free to email me a phone recording showing the issue on the screens. If you can find a way to trigger it reliably on command, that would be ideal, as then we'd have something to send to engineering. Without a way to reproduce the issue, will be hard to find it. You might try disconnecting one to see if the issue is exclusive to using multiple monitors.
The sustained thing is different and expected (just means that only a certain percentage of pixels can hit the max at the same time - due to energy regulations or technical limits for current/heat).
Thanks for tutorial, I have saved the image and now not sure how to preview it :) lol iPhone and any image viewers showing me wrong color space image. Any solution, how do you preview image?@@gregbenzphotography
I work for film industry, and we use ACES color profiles, it preserves dynamic range from any professional big cameras >16stops, and easy converts to normal sRGB color space. Not sure why Adobe didn't join the proper way to edit raw.
Not the Windows settings, but you would need to enable the toggle in LR, just like every other control - unless you set an import default, which would work.
@@gregbenzphotography thanks for the reply, I know you have to toggle it on in Lightroom however since Windows natively runs in SDR and to display HDR you have to manually change the display settings everytime unless im missing something.
@alyousuf the Windows setting should be sticky. It may reset on external displays (MacOS does that sometimes). Worth a bug report to MS if that’s what you see. Should be doable, though there are edge cases (such as using a couple of the same display and the manufacturer fails to send a serial number over HDMI to distinguish between the devices).
curious question, you are super awesome for all the responses to all questions I see. I just updated my Lightroom Classic on my M1 Max pro 16 with mini led display. the HDR preview looks stunning, when saving as p3 HDR jpeg. I cannot view in either preview or photos app. Currently on Mac OS 13.5.2. any suggestions.
Something I don't understand with the new HDR is this - When I export the image it looks nothing like the HDR image in Lightroom . What I see in Lightroom when editing using HDR is what I want to also see when exporting, so am I missing something here or is there a setting in export that I need to review?
Need an HDR compatible viewer (such as the Chrome browser) in a format that viewer understands (HDR JPG for browser, HDR AVIF for native Apple Photos app). LR export needs to check “HDR output”. You can open it in PS to check.
Does this new possibility positivally concern image editing that is done primarily for 'fine art priting' ? (Other then using it for only giving a fast preview of what is available in the raw file? -?)
It does not create a benefit for prints, as only monitors have improved to support this. But you can easily support both. gregbenzphotography.com/hdr#printing
@@gregbenzphotography Thank You very much, also for the link to those redacted 'thoughts' that totally reflect what I thought should be but suddenly doubted. Again thank You!
Hello. I discovered my computer monitor isn't HDR but I hooked my Mac mini which has an M2 Pro Chip to my TV which says it's HDR-10. It's a Samsung - 50" Class QN90C Neo QLED 4K UHD Smart Tizen TV. I first tried with a regular HDMI but am now trying a thuderbolt to hdmi converter while using an HDMI2.1. Are Macs limited to having a built in screen like using a Mac Book Pro? Any guidance would be appreciated.
Macs work great with HDR over HDMI to TVs. But there are several things to check. See my free e-book for details to troubleshoot. gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/
It should be, though you may need to experiment a bit to confirm which HDR file formats and color spaces are supported in Premier. Video can be a bit tricky. EXR and 32-bit TIF are most likely to be supported (I would not expect support for AVIF, JXL or JPG gain maps yet). FCPX and Davinci would definitely support it.
im completely unaware of how most of this works, but it seems you cant export and have it look as the file does with the HDR setting on. but you can screen capture or something and have that file look just like the file does in Lightroom with the HDR setting turned on. is there some work around to have it export to look as it does with the HDR setting applied?
You should export from LR as JPG or AVIF with "HDR output" turned on. You will need a compatible viewer to see it as proper HDR though, try opening in Chrome to confirm. I would share the JPG version on a website and use AVIF if using the Photos app on iOS. This will ultimately be supported probably everywhere, but not all software supports all formats yet.
I also recommend considering a different print lab if they request sRGB. That's generally a sign of a lab support person who doesn't know what they're doing, but check to see if you can send wider gamut. You're losing a lot of printable color with sRGB (Adobe RGB, ProPhoto, and Rec2020 would all be better options). Adobe RGB is the simplest path to wide gamut printing, Rec2020 is even more ideal but not quite as simple to select with some Adobe software.
Yes, but it will use the SDR preview so I don't recommend it given the demands for a great print. A more optimal approach for serious printing is to edit for SDR and enhance that to HDR, that will give you the ultimate control over the print and still let you get most of the HDR benefit (you can always process twice to really go for it, but that isn't necessary). Or you can tone map the HDR in Photoshop via ACR (using the setting in PS prefs and Image / Mode / 16-bits on your 32-bit source) to get much more control over the conversion than just the 7 SDR preview sliders. It's quite easy to do once you explore the options a bit, but don't print directly from the HDR or you'll be disappointed. See gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#printing
@@gregbenzphotography Thanks for quick reply. Can you make a video on this how to do that also Can we do the HDR and SDR in layers in Photoshop and then use ACR tools and create final image mixture of HDR and SDR and then send it for print. Would that be printable?
Yes, but it is 600 nits mini-LED and only offers modest HDR. Turn down the brightness to no more than half and you'll have HDR capability (see test #1 to confirm exact support at current brightness: gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#tests) The Pro Display XDR or XDR display of the MacBook Pros (or 12.9" iPad Pro) is in another league as far as HDR quality - 1600 nits.
Great video Greg. I own a MacBook Pro 14" M1 Max. So it has the Apple XDR Display. And depending on the brightness I set it to it can show anywhere from 1 stop all the way to 4 stops of HDR in Lightroom. I also own a BenQ SW321C display. I like it because it is 32" so easier to use. But when i set it to HDR it only shows up to 1 stop of HDR in Lightroom. Can this be adjusted? I tried different things but no luck. Also if editing with an HDR display how does this affect printing. For example Canon PRO 300 printer or similar.
That monitor is much less capable than the XDR, which is outstanding . You can mirror the displays and optimize for the internal display to show a small reference as one option. See also gregbenzphotography.com/hdr#printing
One of the reasons I upgraded to the MacBook Pro 14" was due to the outstanding XDR display. Also the Apple Silicon. Previous I had the 2016 Intel MacBook Pro. Huge difference. Its too bad the Apple Pro Display costs so much. Bit out of my price range. But will say its the right price for it.@@gregbenzphotography
Amazing video thanks for explaining in depth but does anyone know if there is some alternative or workaround that allows you to convert or export the HDR image to also work and display on any SDR screen? Because it you take a screenshot of the HDR file you should be able to view it just fine on an SDR display too? This means there should be a way to convert it right ?
Use the SDR preview and save with “HDR output” turned off. But better is a gain map you can offer both: gregbenzphotography.com/hdr-images/lightroom-adds-hdr-edit-and-export/
Thanks for the reply and your in depth info on the website but exporting using the method you show as a gain map for web browsers still does not guarantee the image will look the same across other devices is that correct? Is there any way to completely eliminate having to have a SDR fallback and keeping the final export looking as close to the HDR version you see in Lightroom but so it works with all SDR devices, essentially flatting the true HDR version so it becomes a SDR version in some sense? Similar to taking a screenshot of the file would retain the look and colors.
@@jclass7330 It is the most reliable way to show the image as you intend - even if the viewer doesn't have HDR support at all. It will render something between the SDR and HDR version. This is the most consistent and best possible way to share on screens which have inherently different limits and will be set to different brightness levels. The only method which would be superior to this would be a gain map where you have full manual control of the SDR (something I hope we see offered by Adobe in the future, as this would be useful for those who really want to optimize their art). Other HDR formats without a gain map vary wildly because they each have their own method to generate the SDR (with no input from you and some are pretty awful).
Hey thanks for your replies and sorry for all the questions but which method are you referring to as the most reliable? The web browser method on your website?
What would be the best way to batch process say tens of thousands of edited raw files out of Lightroom, without manual input? @gregbenzphotography - do you think that will work? I could double check each image and discard those that "failed", but I can not re-process tens of thousands of photos.
I assume these are SDR edits, right? My Web Sharp Pro software can automatically convert SDR to HDR. gregbenzphotography.com/photography-tips/exporting-avif-and-hdr-with-web-sharp-pro-v5-6/ Once you’ve done some HDR work for a bit, should feel pretty easy. Give me a shout if you have questions. gregbenzphotography.com/contact/
@@gregbenzphotography Yes, I was talking about all the edited raw files in Lightroom that were edited for SDR output. If there was a way to simply re-export all of those from Lightroom (now that it supports HDR output) while getting them as good as possible without manual input per file, since the volume of files is so large. I thought Web Sharp Pro was more of a Photoshop plugin for exporting files?
I found it interesting just how little information was available on this workflow out there. This video and Greg's site seem to be the only comprehensive guide I've seen. Hoping to see support for these new file types expand across the web soon- this feels transformative.
Thanks, stay tuned for more, just recorded my next video
I edit on a LG 42" C2 OLED. This is a pretty big game changer for my editing. It makes me want to go back through my entire catalog and start doing re-edits haha. Thanks for the export tips. I was having trouble at first figuring out which settings to use at first.
That’s a great display for HDR. A lot of professionals use it for grading HDR movies.
How do you like it as a monitor in general?
@gregbenzphotography I love it. Out of the box the color was a bit too blue, but after some calibration it works great for editing. Being able to see the black levels perfectly and measure image contrast is really useful. And now with this new lightroom update I forsee it being even better.
It is my main display (I have an SDR ultrawide display in the side) and have had 0 issues with burn in or anything of the sort after almost a year with it. I recommend it to pretty much everyone now haha. I also have an LG C1 48", but it was just a tad too large for desk use, so I put it in my living room.
and where are you going to use those images? social media does not accepts hdr yet, except utube. printing does not care about hdr, this is a display related function. kinda useless
@petrub27 the file information will be pseudo HDR (basically it will compress the HDR range into SDR values, i.e. gain map) easier than if I were to do it manually while in SDR. It is subtle but noticeable in the highlights. I can use my display's full range to edit the image then easily export into an SDR approximation, while also retaining an HDR copy to host myself without having to edit twice. Previously i would have to disable HDR every time i was editing if i wanted to edit it properly for SDR content / social media, now HDR becomes an editing tool instead. That or i can create HDR timelapses / embed HDR images into HDR content much easier. I do wish social media would finally update to 10bit+, but doubt that happens any time soon.
This feature looks absolutely stunning on my iphone 13. It leaves me stunned knowing how much dynamic range and color information are not utilises simply for the fact that our monitors cannot display them
Appreciate all the knowledge I gained regarding the export portion from this video. Bittersweet features, as I feel there is plenty of information to be leveraged in the photos with the HDR function yet still wanting to present a balanced overall image for a vast audience.
Worth adding that point (tone) curve contrary the parametric (tone) curve extends to HDR without altering the image output. Other than that, awesome intro into the new feature. Thank you.
Thanks for the insights! My background is in film but cool to see HDR hitting the photography world. What I find weird tho is Adobe's decision to define HDR as x stops above SDR. Both SDR and HDR imagery are in some form tone mapped from raw data. It feels weird to on top of that express it with stops. The standard for HDR mastering is simply defined in nits which we can relate to our display brightness capabilities. Haven't done a whole lot of testing but it also feels like the data is clipping already before reaching max display brightness even when the range is set to full on my PA32UCG. Perhaps the actual internal limit is 1000nits? The image kept becoming brighter but it was just a brighter white rather than increasing the color. Could also be the capabilities of my display tho... Very bright color is still tricky to do in displays. Still it would make more sense to set a mastering nits rather than stops. The other oddball is that they use 8bit principle for their curve value range. This gets 'extended' in HDR but you can't just extend 8bit into more values. 10bit 1023 is the same as 255 8bit etc. It would make more sense to have floating point values with 0-1 being SDR and all above 1 HDR. This makes the scale theoretically infinite and also would allow for finer control within 0-1 range over just 256 steps. It's a matter of principle of course as it's just math but it creates a stupid misconception to an already complex system.
I believe stops are more intuitive for HDR in general, as they tell you how the image will actually be adapted to a user’s display (in a relative way). In my opinion, using nits for source levels data makes no sense (including for video where nits are the standard). You would not want to display in fixed nits except under fixed lighting, such as editing in a studio or watching a movie - in which case the fixed nits are really only appropriate because the lighting conditions are fixed (you’d get the same result with relative display under those conditions).
In all other cases, the display needs to adapt for the ambient lighting or how the user has set the SDR white point. Otherwise, displaying the image with pre-determined brightness would be too bright or too dark. The actual displayed nits are best left to the OS and video subsystem to determine at the time of display.
So the data is best understood in a relative way, and editing conditions should simply be fixed (at which the display would reproduce reliably at a fixed level - all you need is to set the SDR white point, minimum headroom and ensure no tone mapping).
I hear you on the mixed units, it may seem a little strange. I think the goal was familiarity and that makes sense to me (though the SDR RGB numbers are color space dependent and LAB isn't an option for the SDR range of an HDR image, so you don't really have a reliable reference in this case for 0-255 either). I think you could just as easily argue for 32-bit readouts across the range, but I think stops for the over-range HDR values makes the most sense. That’s how the brightness is perceived by humans and that’s how you’d set reasonable editing targets. The jump from 2.0 to 4.0 is visually the same as the jump from 4.0 to 8.0. And stops are infinite too, you just aren’t seeing beyond the edge of the histogram (same way the curves work here, as well as curves/levels in 32-but PS because the histo and curve would be impossible to use without setting a reasonable upper limit in an unbounded domain).
Adobe is displaying without tone mapping. You should be able to hit 1000 nits unless your SDR is set too low or you reduce the HDR range (which is a hard clip defaulting to 4 stops). I believe the limit in LR / ACR is 8 stops if you lift the limit to "full". The actual limit in 32-bit Photoshop is vastly higher, LR/ACR definitely have a limit - but it is based on stops and I believe would support up to 10,000 nits even if the SDR white point were dropped below 80 nits (which is typically as low as a photographer would set the display). So all the HDR limits here should support all our displays now and in the future. Are you potentially clipping a channel? You could run into color channel clipping even if the composite pixel value was less than 1000 nits.
Ultimately, Adobe is using a different convention than video does to represent the data and that will seem strange to HDR video editors. I believe it’s a more intuitive way to think about data which will always be adapted to the display at the time of viewing and I wish video had done the same.
@@gregbenzphotographyThis is just as intuitive as davinci resolve's HDR Grading.
Personally nits make no sense even in the video world. Only poace it makes sense is monitors. I'd much rather know how many stops above SDR White point my footage is than use nits as reference. Nits don't tell me much about the scene.
Agreed, HDR content is adapted to the display nearly always - referring an absolute number makes no sense for me for an adapted value.
i notice how switching on HDR rescues highlights as opposed to bringing back shadow detail. Guess HDR monitors and HDR is about the higher end of the luminance range.
Very informative video on HDR. Well done. Nobody else have show this new feature in an HDR video. 👍❤
Labor of love. That video was extremely difficult to make, and I’m still not happy with it (color match isn’t great and SDR never looks very good). What Adobe has done for photos is generally lacking in video. They deserve high praise for making HDR photography so easy!
I mostly shoot and upload videos in HDR. Thanks.
Had the update. Thanks for your posting
Awesome stuff! I can't wait to go back through all my best photos and convert them!!
It’s a great video. And HDR is certainly fun to look into and player around with. But at the end of the day, I’m still not sure if it’s already the time for it.
Yes, if you exactly know who you give the file to or you have your own website or some thing, that might be a chance of someone actually seeing a better image.
All major browsers have just begun to support gain maps…
Outside my photography, I don’t know anyone actually using an HDR monitor even today.
So usually at least from my point of you, I have to edit for the masses which means editing for SDR . And especially if you printed I haven’t looked it up but I doubt that there are affordable print options that can do anything with HDR (if any).
So for me it’s fun to see what the image could look like… but before I do at least 1.5 times the work for every image… I rather just edit for SDR from the get go…
P.s. but unless I have missed it, I would certainly be interested to here your opinion on print images edited for HDR… or if you actually found a print service where this makes a noticeable difference. Thx
Everyone will have different opinions on when is the right time, but it is far more common than you think. Anyone who's bought a MacBook Pro in the last three years has a world class HDR display. Anyone who's bought an Apple display since 2018 probably has some degree of HDR. The majority of smart phones and TVs have HDR. The total number of HDR displays in circulation now might easily be over one billion. It is certainly hundreds of millions at the least. In my surveys of my audience, nearly 40% report having an HDR capable monitor already. You never hear about it because we haven't had the software for photography up until recently, but that is rapidly changing now.
You can do it with no additional work at all. Many of the images on my site were SDR edits that I exported as HDR (using Web Sharp Pro, but you could also use something like a virtual copy in LR with some quick tweaks to make your own). You can of course get much fancier, but it's quite easy to create HDR once you understand it and there is already a pretty sizable audience. And with gain maps, your SDR audience will still see something great, so it's an easy transition.
Your concerns are common concerns I hear from people who haven't really tried it, but I think you'll find aren't really an issue once you dive further into HDR.
For printing, you should use the SDR and it's also very easy to manage that as well. This is all just part of the learning curve. More details: gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#printing
Printing will inherantly be only the 6 or so stops of SDR, HDR will only work for backlit transparencies, much like slides on a light table. Or, you know, using an HDR TV for displaying photo art.
Good video summarising the HDR changes thanks.
This is just beginning but I can forsee a great future to this tech. Adobe could though give us the full package into Lightroom...for example, as I work with my MacBook Pro (HDR display) hooked to a Benq display (said to be HDR but actually not...), which is much larger (14" vs 27") if I'm in the develop module and set LR to show the image in the Macbook, it shows in SDR. To see the HDR version I have to move the main LR window to the small Macbook display...not right! (8-)...unless I'm loosing something...hope it comes soon...because once you've seen it, you can't unsee it ! Oh, Adobe Portfolio needs to support it too...
Greg, thank you so much for your hard work in making this video available!!! Everything in it was so direct, to the point, and concise, all of my questions were answered within the video. I’m so excited to have found HDR editing for myself and Especially the support of an educated professional having shared their knowledge and experience with this new technology/feature.
I was just thinking, man I should try figuring out how to record and post a video about this feature so people could really get excited and start checking it out.. Nonetheless I’m truly confident, seeing you put this video out, that HDR will be The Next Big Thing in Photography!! Especially for the factor of sharing to media etcc
Cheers!
AK
Have you seen that Instagram now supports HDR for images captured and uploaded from an iPhone or Android (at least an S24)? Can’t really use Adobe edited files yet, but it’s great to see things already starting to get initial support.
@@gregbenzphotography Hyeh! They have! I ran a test posting a photo in most all formats and Avif HDR goes through! You Can post HDR photos taken by anything and edited in LR, exported as AVIF file. Tho it does look alittle soft..
I posted to close friends list to avoid any confusion, and it rendered fairly well.
Give it a shot!!
Try using 2x sizing, for landscape there is a bug that scales down below the expected 1080px wide
Excellent video, thanks - I've been looking for a good resource to share to explain this technology to others, since it really impressed me - vastly more than anything else in the latest LrC update, and it's breathing new life into old photos. The CZcams app is a good workaround for not being able to see HDR photos on the web well. Sharing this with my photography pals.
HDR looks awesome, but, at the end of the day, if your goal is to share your work...don't 99% percent of people have monitors with SDR displays (maybe some new phones are close to HDR, but ideally, you want to display your bigger)? Also, for printing, you'll still have to print in SDR, as well. So, it's cool, but does it have a practical application at this point?
That's a common misperception. HDR is far more common than you think. In surveys of my audience, nearly 40% of them tell me they already have an HDR display. Any Apple laptop or monitor is already in great shape, with the last couple generations of MacBook Pro being absolutely stunning. In addition, the majority of smart phones and TVs support HDR (only the lower end models don't). I personally already own 7 HDR displays (iPhone, iPad, Android, Mac laptop, PC laptop, external monitor, and a TV). It's much further along than you think, mostly because the software for this has only recently become widely available.
And with gain maps, you can easily get the HDR benefit and still provide a great experience for those with older displays.
Printing is easy to manage. gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#printing
Most of your concerns are really just a matter of the learning curve for HDR, it's much better than you think. The big gap right now is a lack of support from social media, but it's easy to share on your own website or in person on your own devices.
@@gregbenzphotography Thank you, so much for alleviating my concerns. I turned on HDR on one of my raw files of a friend sitting in a field, backlit on a hazy summer day and the photo went from very low in contrast to all of sudden having beautiful highlights and it looked more lifelike. And this is was on my M1 iMac that has 500 nits and isn't an HDR display, as far as I'm aware.
My phone has hdr10+ and so does my laptop and my gaming monitor has 'hdr' too...well to some extent
HDR is and has been supported for eons. Most SDR displays are much brighter than 100 nits even out of the box by several times, much brighter than the original spec made for CRT screens. People end up making their pictures too dark for print because of the expectation of a brighter, or more HDR monitor.
Actual software management of HDR that's standardized in actual brightness level is more hard to come by and software is less forgiving, even colour management for p3 use by most decent screens isn't well supported.. it's a mess but if you push for it, developers will follow
Just an addendum, HDR supports more bits and tells the display to go brighter instead of needing to manually max brightness and then guess how bright their screen might get. HDR is just underexposure and bright display. More gamut and more bits means you get a more accurate representation of the 'underexposed' image on HDR displays.
Great video! Will the HDR treatment translate over to printing of the image?
Not directly, but it's easy to manage both: gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#printing
This provides a compelling reason to always shoot in RAW, as your images can potentially look better years down the line.
AI image enhancements are getting more popular enabling you to upscale and denoise images, and with HDR displays becoming more mainstream you can convert all your images you once shot to a a more cleaner, higher resolution HDR image.
Agreed, software keeps improving and allowing improved results for those who have the original mosaiced RAW.
Love your explanation
Excellent job actually presenting this in HDR video! Simple workflow we've all been waiting for.
Tried the mobile Lr, sadly HDR preview only works on some Pixel phones and while editing still works, 10 bit export can only be done into AVIF which seem to be either broken or otherwise incompatible with any avif viewer i could find. Strangely, some cropped exported images seem to work though colorspace still doesn't look right. And what do they mean by jpeg hdr export in the desktop app? Is it like a 10 bit JP2? 🤔
The JPG gain map is the best export option (while the base image is 8-bit, the final HDR is combined from a second image and has sufficient bit depth for HDR).
The AVIF works in Chrome/Edge/Brave/Opera.
Compatibility for both formats should only continue to expand. The JPG is 100% safe and will show as SDR where not supported.
Which Android phone are you using? Hoping to see Samsung support soon (the S24 HDR images can be uploaded soon to Instagram!)
@@gregbenzphotography I have Oneplus 8 pro, HDR and wide gamut support comes and goes here despite full hardware capability. We've been dreaming of HDR since the late 90s so our patience has no limits by now )
Ok... this video is pure gold for me.
Thank you.
(1) You can use either approach, but the ultimate SDR quality would result from editing for SDR or manually converting the HDR through ACR. The SDR preview sliders give great results, but are global and you can go even further when you take full control of the SDR.
(2) No, but you can easily support both HDR and print. Please see gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#printing
@@gregbenzphotography thank you sooo much 😄
Interestingly LR HDR works with TIFF files that have been edited in PS and saved back to LR. As far as I'm aware ACR HDR only works with RAW files
It's upgrading from SDR to HDR and taking liberties to enhance the image a bit. With ACR, it's consistent, but you're starting with an image which is already HDR (you don't get the button unless in 32-bit mode), so it does not adjust the image as you didn't technically start with an SDR source. Confusing, but makes sense when you dive into what it's doing.
Great video! I'm wondering if this JPEG with a gain map is the same as "Ultra HDR" in Android 14?
Yes, and it looks great there too!
This really is such an excellent video tutorial. I have 16’ M1 Max and didn’t even know its screen had HDR mode. Even more so because I edit my photos on a Dell Ultrasharp U2515H 2560 x 1440 monitor attached to the laptop. It truly has a stunning screen, it has to be said.
But now you are talking about the HDR feature it seems (sadly) my time with it is coming to an end. I have played with some old raw images on my M1 Max today and I can see that extra possibility that HDR offers.
May I ask you please, what HDR 32” (or up) monitor would you recommend to get?
My recommendations on a monitor: gregbenzphotography.com/review-best-hdr-monitor-for-photography/
The Pro Display XDR is amazing and I got a great deal on a used one myself, but still pricy even used.
@@gregbenzphotography Just to let you know, on your website I clicked on the link Free HDR Ebook. I filled out details, got 2 emails, one about confirming the subscription, and another containing the newsletter regarding Lumenzia masking. In that second email way down at the bottom there is a link to download the ebook. When I click on it, I’m led to a web browser which is infinitely showcasing web based cryptic text, best way I can describe it. I’m doing this on my iPad Pro at the moment.
@DanThomas1161 I’d use a computer. The link and file is definitely good, sounds like some specific conflict with an iPad or something like that.
This workflow is certainly rare as if the stills photography world does not care about HDR at all.
Now that I've been playing with such HDR photos, something weird had caught my off guard.
I am working on a MacBook Pro, which gives 1600 nits peak brightness, and LRC shows that on the histogram for full 4 stops of expanded histogram.
What's weird is that, the develop module previews a much more capable color and brightness range than what LRC actually outputs.
So my output settings are AV1F, HDR output to HDR Rec. 2020 space. LRC takes these parameters and outputs color profile Rec. ITU-R BT.2100 PQ, and this seemingly correct color management profile gives results that are way off from the LRC develop module preview. Color gamut is fine within SDR range, the mid tones and shadows, but not in HDR range. Bright colors definitely suffer loss of quality and depths, brightness levels are just completely off, the develop module shows more than two stops of highlight headroom than what it outputs.
I am confused, there are so little information about this workflow, if anyone has any insight about this, please let me know.
Thank you.
We haven't had a proper set of editing / browsing software and gain maps until the past 1-2 months. It's going to take a while, but I see good interest. The lack of social media support, limited HDR hardware (which is far better than most realize), and confusion are all understandable factors that take time for things to really grow.
I've not seen any such issues. How are you actually viewing the output? The problem is likely in the viewing application. Try opening the output back in Adobe software and it should match (bearing in mind things like the LR library don't support HDR yet, so compare both in LR develop module).
@@gregbenzphotography Blimey! I just realized the Preview app does not support HDR functionalities at the moment, I had wide gamut and HDR mixed up! I also tuned off "View Full HDR" option for my photos app. Well, now I finally have a solid reason to turn this on, and I do get the final 1:1 result from LRC develop module to Apple's Photo app. This HDR rendition is just as stunning as if I was there seeing the scenes myself.
Thanks again. Keep up your A+ work, I'm sure the photography world appreciates everything you do!
@joshyang886 great! Lots of little bits and pieces to this new journey.
@@gregbenzphotography Photomator app just sent out emails about their full HDR support in the new version. They even mention turning SDR into HDR compatible content. We are truly just a tad beyond the verge of this HDR era.
Sadly my Benq SW270C doesn't seem to be supported yet even though it does have HDR. Hope they expand the range of supported screens I would love to toy around with this a bit - even though I reckon it will take time until I won't have to edit everything essentially twice and until PS does allow for HDR editing as well making Luminosity Masks and all my favorite tools usable.
That’s not an HDR display. It has 300 nits. The minimum is 400 and you really want 1000+ to get the benefit. Your display may accept an HDR signal, but won’t actually show HDR pixels. It’s confusing marketing.
www.benq.com/en-us/monitor/professional/sw270c/spec.html
Test #1 will tell you the exact HDR headroom offered by a display (SDR is 0, which a less capable HDR monitor will show if set too bright): gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#tests
Thank you for the informative video. Do you know if utilization of the full HDR capabilities in lightroom will impact the final output gap between compressed raw and uncompressed raw files? I currently shoot compressed raw as there seems to be little difference with SDR, but I am wondering if it would be advantageous to shoot uncompressed, due to the technological improvements in HDR.
Shouldn’t matter
Thank you very much for the information, but when I try to save my HDR edit, it doesn't save as bright and detailed when I look at the saved image? Any suggestions?
Hi Greg, Thanks for a great video intro to HDR in LR.
I've found an issue that I wonder if you can address. When I export an HDR image that has more than +1 stop in range to JPEG XL or AVIF, the resultant exported file bears no resemblance to the image I see in Lightroom. I'm on a 16" MacBook Pro using the reference mode P3-1600 nits. The image looks great in Lightroom, but once exported the extra DR that is shown in Lightroom has a colour shift eg in the sky that is just bad. I'm viewing these files on a Mac where the AVIF file is opened in Apple's Preview app
Can you shed any light on this? I would have thought the exported file to look effectively identical to what the screen shows in Lightroom, but it seems if it's more than +1 stop the image can't be rendered properly.
Secondly, do you have any insights into how various social media platforms eg
Instagram, FB, and Flickr deal with JPEG+Tone Map and P3 colorspace?
ie what settings should we use in Export so an HDR image can be ingested into these platforms?
MacOS preview doesn't support HDR for web HDR formats yet (EXR and 32-bit TIF may work, they do in Finder). Anytime it works in one app but not another, you can probably assume the mangled one isn't supported or the app has bugs. There are definitely some holes in the ecosystem.
Social isn't supporting gain maps yet, so I'd send an SDR there. If you send a gain map, send one encoded as sRGB as they are still stripping the ICC profile in many scenarios and this will cause wrong color when sRGB is assumed for a missing profile. It's kind of sad, as CICP / NCLX allow 4-bytes to encode which ICC profile is needed, so there is no size reduction benefit to stripping these profiles. Hopefully the future migration to AVIF and HDR gets these legacy profile issues finally addressed.
@@gregbenzphotography Thanks - that's what thought... so what do you suggest as the best viewing software for HDR (AVIF or JPEG XL) on a Mac and Windows?
@sydlow Lightroom
also.. what is a game map ?! im trying to google it. ? Im getting lots of info about video games.
Gain map: gregbenzphotography.com/hdr-photos/jpg-hdr-gain-maps-in-adobe-camera-raw/
Thanks so much for your vids covering this topic. My workflow is to do 90% of my work (which is mostly commercial) in LR Classic than import briefly into PS where I sharpen. Then save and close PS. I'll export all files thru LR. I just tried opening a file I processed using the HDR develop option and see that it opens as SDR in PS. When I sharpen the image (using Smart Sharpen) I get funny edges around highlights, which I haven't noticed previously. Other than using LR's sharpening what do you think of doing this on an HDR in PS? Thanks
Make sure PS is 32-bit.
My Web Sharp Pro panel is designed to handle sharpening and exporting HDR images.
Thanks for this video. Lots of great information. I was curious that on your exports you went to Rec 709. I am a DolbyVision Colorist and always trying to stay in a large color gamut and dynamic range. You said for Social media but CZcams can handle Rec2020 HDR and Instagram can play DolbyVision videos that are 10 bit HEVC h265. I don’t know about still images, do you. Will these display HDR on these social media platforms. My thought is to output P3, a much bigger color space then put into a movie container to display in HDR. Any thoughts on this? Thanks
Browsers generally handle wide gamut very well. However, social media very commonly strips the embedded profile. As a result, sRGB is assumed and anything else will become significantly de-saturated as the numbers are not properly interpreted.
So the problem here is not the file you export, it's the terrible reprocessing which social media applies to it after upload. It prevents use of wide gamut. It's rather sad, as the size savings is typically like 900 bytes and they could just replace with a 4-byte CICP or NCLX code instead of a full profile.
Hey Greg, thanks for the speedy reply. That is unfortunate, indeed. For now I guess I'll continue to use my workaround of getting my stills into an HDR video of some sort so they will display HDR. Even in my work, I have a hard to convincing DPs and clients to work in HDR, until I show them the difference on an HDR display and they are blown away. Hopefully broadcasters and social media become more accepting of HDR over the next few years. I am so tired of limited SDR images. Cheers@@gregbenzphotography
@@javajack-1 You'll probably get better results with a gain map, as you control the SDR and limited HDR rendering (almost no support for that for video online; DV trim passes are ignored with online platforms that support DV). This provides substantially better results anytime your image encodes HDR beyond the limits of the viewer's display.
If you publish on your own site, you can safely share wide gamut gain maps. That would be the ideal way to go.
Adobe also has a service to serve HDR AVIF for HDR displays and SDR JPG elsewhere. This is not as good for those with HDR at a lower level than your image requires (still some tone mapping), but is quite good and very easy to use. I've got a video on that.
Hi Greg, thanks for the great video... I don't currently own an HDR monitor so I cant really test this, but a question comes to mind: is this supposed to be used specifically with HDRs generated with multiple exposure raws ("real" hdrs?) or can it be used also with just single exposure raw files? Thanks!
With both the old and new types of HDR, multiple exposures are almost never needed, that is especially true for this new HDR you see here. Key is proper exposure to the right, most people who need to merge exposures do so because the exposure was not accurate in camera.
@@gregbenzphotography thanks!!!
By the way, your phone is probably HDR (Lightroom Mobile supports many) and your TV likely is too (see my e-book for how to connect to a computer with HDR support: gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/)
Great video Greg! I have a 2021 14" MBP and can edit in HDR in LRC no problem, however when I export to JPEG (with HDR sRGB) and use the image as a wallpaper; the SDR version shows in the gain mapped file. Any idea if Mac OS 14.0 supports HDR wallpapers?
No, but try HDR AVIF. That works as a background in Safari and works in the Photos app.
Fantstic video. Just one question. If I am printing should I stick to SDR mode? I use Lightroom CC.
Several good ways to manage both HDR and prints: gregbenzphotography.com/hdr#printing
@@gregbenzphotography thank you! There is good info here!
Hi Greg - do you use hardware like Calibrite Display Plus HL to calibrate your Macbook and screens for HDR editing?
It’s complicated, please email me
So basically, I can edit my picture for the screens those support HDR. Is it so? If my own screen isn't supporting HDR, I will only be able to see SDR preview. Let me know if I am getting it correct. Thank you 😇
You can edit on any machine, but will need HDR support to actually see the HDR while working (ie very ideal).
For sharing, you can send a gain map file which looks great on any display, even if HDR isn’t supported (falls back to a nice SDR version you control).
Greg, sorry for bombarding you with questions. Last 2: 1. What happens when you send the HDR image to Photoshop? Are you seeing the SDR version? The histogram in PS, is 0-255, so? 2. I noticed during the export portion of this tutorial that you have DXO PureRaw. Do you find the results from PureRaw superior to those from LR's recent Denoise feature?
Photoshop can't show images in HDR on the main canvas, but it can use the Camera Raw plugin to view, edit and export photos in the same way it is Lightroom, and that one does show HDR.
@@Maxoverpower @Pogouldiwitz Photoshop offers HDR display in 32-bit mode on MacOS when you enable the tech preview (gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#creatingPS). Windows support is not available at this time.
You need to open as a 32-bit image. The values should be sampled in 32-bit mode and will be 0.000 - 1.000 for SDR range and >1 for HDR (they can also go negative through editing strong colors).
My thoughts on PureRAW vs Adobe Denoise: gregbenzphotography.com/photography-reviews/ai-denoise-lr-acr/
@@gregbenzphotography Thank you so much for your time and efforts! All the best!
Ok, undetstoid for displays, but how does that translate into prints? Is there a reason to care?
The vast majority of images are never printed, I think that’s a pretty good reason. And so is the ability to create something more lifelike than ever before. Easy to have both.
I have a new MacBook Pro 16 m2, when I process in HDR in Lightroom, the image shows perfect, when I export, and I open it it's washed out and look off, not the same I was seeing in Lightroom...how come?
Check the preview for SDR display in LR, if that’s a match to the “washed out” version, then you’ve exported a gain map and are viewing somewhere without support for HDR or gain maps.
Otherwise, probably not properly exported (use JPG and turn on HDR output there).
great video!! however I have a question when I export the photo and I open it in photo application on mac the HDR effect will go away? I mean it feels like the HDR haven' t been activated when I preview it on the mac, can you tell me what may goes wrong?
Not all apps support all (or any) HDR formats yet.
macOS Photos app supports HDR AVIFc otherwise HDR JPG (gain map) is best for browsers.
The new Pixelmator can also create an HDR HEIF, which is supported pretty well on Apple devices.
thanks for your advice that's really works!!!!@@gregbenzphotography
Very interesting...
But unfortunately it displays on Lightroom only on Development mode, also this not in full screen and I found nooooooo external viewer for JPG XL and JXL formats for Mac.
And even Google Photos doesn't support those formats 😞
It has a lot of potential but it's too early, isn't it? (and I write this comment 6 months after your video).
It’s a regular LR feature now. Don’t use JXL, just use JPG with a gain map or AVIF. They are pretty well supported (JPG with a gain map is safe for any browser).
Google Photos on Android supports JPG gain maps, not sure about all its various implementations though.
Support is growing quickly. Even IG and Threads have initial support now.
If you know how to encode and use the images, they work very well. Now is a great time to get started, but you’ll need to invest a little time to learn how to navigate mixed implementation at this phase.
I exported the photo as HDR but how do you open the HDR photo so it will show as HDR? I used my Macbook Pro to edit in Lightroom and when I open the photo in Preview it is still in SDR. I also used my phones and still SDR.
Need to use a supporting viewer, such as HDR JPG/AVIF in Chrome/Edge/Brave/Opera, or HDR AVIF with the native Photos app in the latest MacOS / iOS. Not all formats are supported in all viewers yet. Lots more detail at gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#eBook
When I use the 'edit in Photoshop' function in LR the tools/blending modes in PS are greyed out and only work if I convert the file to 16 bit. Am I doing something wrong? All help welcome ☺
32-bit has limited tools, sure you converted to 16? "Edit in" has no specific relevance here, it's something about the file conditions in PS. An HDR should open as 32-bits by default, and that works very differently from 8/16-bit PS.
I'm watching this on my phone, and I can see the difference. Can you explain how this was tackled?
Depending on how you watch (CZcams app supports HDR, CZcams in the browser does not), you’re either seeing real HDR or something tone mapped to SDR (the latter looked dark and drab, but does convey the gist of things). The gear icon in YT should tell you which you’re getting (says “HDR” where supported in playback).
I can see sdr for a second when I rotate my phone. Interesting.
So there is no way to currently watch CZcams in hdr on desktop?
I wish Flickr supported hdr too
@djd904 works great on desktop too when the computer supports it (browser HDR video support is more widespread than HDR photos at this point).
I’d drop a line to Flickr support to help let them know there’s customer demand for it.
@@gregbenzphotography thanks for all the information, I'll take you advice and send them a message. Seems like it will be the standard in the next 5 years or so
How this workout for printing. Will my finished HDR image I’ve processed look like the SDR version or the HDR version I made?
Please see gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#printing
whats the best way to open it in photoshop, apply the effect after or before sending it to photoshop. I noticed that when I open it in photoshop using prophoto rgb 16bits it still wont open it with the same color and brightness depth range as lightroom does.
Open as Smart Object preserves everything (RAW data for ACR) and should default to 32-bit.
Thank you for the tutorial, however I've tried exporting a photo in HDR using all three versions LR, LR Classic, and LR Mobile, and in all the cases the exported JPG file doesn't show the HDR version, just flat overexposed image. Please help.
You need to use a supporting viewer. The HDR JPG will work in a browser. For something like the Apple Photos app, you’d use HDR AVIF. Eventually, all these formats ought to work most everywhere, but it’s new and support is uneven at this point.
Hi Sir ,how can I get the preset of HDR jpeg gain map?
I realised the original Lightroom doesn't have so many export preset option.
Thanks
You're trying to get other controls to edit the SDR, or looking for a way to just export the SDR version you created for an HDR image?
I just starting toying with the HDR features via Lightroom and have a bit of confusion. When exporting hdr with various image formats and color spaces, the photo preview app on my imac 2020 does not show and HDR image. Im not sure if the apps Im using simply cannot display hdr or what the issue is. Lightrooms histogram though does say that my display is an hdr capable display however.
Because those apps do not support it. Most browsers support HDR gain maps (Safari does not at this time) and some standalone preview apps support HDR AVIF. Try both. If the image opens ok in Photoshop, it is good and the problem is that the other app does not support HDR. I would contact the vendor and let them know you're interested in HDR support. Things are improving rapidly, but there are certainly gaps in support.
@@gregbenzphotography I actually just sent an avif rec 2020 file to my iPhone and it opened in hdr but not on the preview app on my iMac. So I guess that also backs up your statement here.
@@WilliamTrostelPhotography Yeah, mixed support. The previews app in MacOS supports EXR (use sRGB since those files won't embed profiles), and I think it may support 32-bit TIF. Eventually, the most important formats (such as JPG / AVIF gain maps) should be widely supported. We just need a little more time.
Hello i tried this feature but my picture looks more flat than they used to do without exporting in HDR. Is there a specific way to export ? I got an iPhone 12 Pro that should support HDR but looks like I got an SDR rendering while opening the picture
Need a comparable file and viewer. For iPhone, that means iOS 17 Photos app viewing an HDR AVIF.
That’s great, but I don’t understand why if I want to see the image in full screen mode, by pressing the F key, the effect disappears…
Yes, this is initial HDR support and the display isn't shown in the library or all areas. You aren't losing the HDR data, but you won't see it full screen. Instead, click -tab to hide panels and twice to dim edges for something very close to full screen - but with HDR support in the Develop module.
@@gregbenzphotography I’ll try. Thanks!
I do a lot of Blurb photo books using Lightroom. Can this HDR feature be used for the images in those books?
Yes, but direct use of the HDR source is not the best approach, there are better options: gregbenzphotography.com/hdr#printing
my screen is hdr, but i don't see hdr indicator, just 4k, and there are no option for HDR in video settings.. And i checked it at the beginning, the sky on the first example looks better if i turning hdr off
This video will be tone mapped on an SDR display, so you’ll see a difference whether you have HDR or not.
No idea what you are facing. Which settings? Operating system? See my tests, troubleshooting, and e-book for full details to see what you have and get set up (if your display actually supports HDR, and an HDR marketing claim is not enough, that might just mean it takes a video signal). gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#troubleshooting
@@gregbenzphotography windows 11, i have lg c1 oled tv, using as my display. When windows 11 in sdr, colors more vibrant, sky looks better). When i'm looking different videos through youtube tv itself recognize where are hdr, and showing hdr logo in the corner. For example in hdr demos. When as pc screen your video for example doesn't have the hdr mark, as i said before, just 4k in the settings
@VlaViRus see the resources I shared, many possible scenarios. But I’d check first that HDR is enabled in Windows Display settings.
@@VlaViRus Do test #1 for headroom, needs to be >0 gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#tests
TV may not be properly setup for HDR. If it is, might be browser, Chrome is most reliable for HDR.
Would you be able to recapture a lot of the color in the sky in PS using LAB mode?
No. LAB mode does not support HDR, you must work in RGB or Grayscale in Photoshop for HDR (32-bit mode). Maybe that will be supported in the future, but it would be a major change and I wouldn't count on it. There is almost no need for LAB anymore, you can pull almost all the same tricks in RGB.
guys the display of the macbook air 2020 should be hdr right? In lightroom I can see every hdr edit but once I export it even if hdr export is used I see a dull image don’t know what I’m doing wrong
It’s a 400 nits display, so it should offer a maximum of about 1 stop of HDR headroom if you limit brightness to half. See test z#1 gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/
If it works in LR, but not elsewhere on the same machine, either the export wasn’t done correctly or the other app doesn’t support the HDR format you’re using. Not clear what format and app you’re trying, but I’d suggest JPG with HDR output and view in Chrome for browser, or HDR AVIF to view with Apple Photos app in latest MacOS / latest iOS.
Ok, but what type of monitor is enabled for this HDR function? I have a Benq SW271 HDR (for professional use), but this function is not supported on Lightroom. The histogram HDR appears red and not enabled. (I work with windows, not with apple).
It's a function that would be convenient, but I can't have spent €1400 for a professional monitor only two years ago, and now made it obsolete by this HDR function! To clarify, in the histogram, the part dedicated to HDR is red, and the monitor is not recognized by LR...!
That is not an HDR monitor. It only supports 300 nits (400 is the minimum and you want 1000+ to get a great experience). I don't believe Benq sells any HDR monitors yet (other than a reference monitor that is crazy expensive). More info: gregbenzphotography.com/review-best-hdr-monitor-for-photography/
Thanks a lot. Finally someone who gave me a concrete and real answer. So the problem are the 300 nits of my monitor... in short, I made a great investment buying it !!(ironic mode-on). Thanks also for link. Now i read it. @@gregbenzphotography
@@davidecavallini4430 Exactly, 300 nits doesn't cut it. 400 is the minimum, and that isn't very impressive. 600 nits on an OLED in a dark room looks great. But otherwise, anything less than 1000 nits isn't worth paying for an upgrade (nice if you have it for other reasons, but not compelling below 1000 nits).
Has anyone else run into issues with starting with HDR images for a focus stack in LRC, edited in LRC, brought into PS to focus stack and with 'Seamless Tones and Colors' - the HDR aspect is lost and the result seems like a bunch of dynamic range is lost and the results are not at all what you expect? It works without 'Seamless Tones and Colors', but then the edges are very visible. I know this is a PS feature, but since I started with editing in HDR all the way back in LRC, I was wondering if for focus-stacking, this is a feature to avoid unfortunately.
PS HDR support has some limitations, it's not nearly a smooth as working in LR or ACR - but you can still do nearly everything once you get over its much steeper learning curve (you'll need to adapt techniques in PS, where as the LR/ACR workflow requires minimal changes for HDR).
I am not a fan of seamless tones and colors for focus stacking. It only works if PS gets a perfect mask, which is almost never the case. Otherwise, it prevents correction of the masks for blending the layers. So I wouldn't use it regardless of any HDR considerations. I would match the colors in RAW instead if needed. If interested, I show my full focus stacking approach in one of my courses: gregbenzphotography.com/focus-stacking-from-start-to-finish/
How do you share HDR images? AVIF does not work well at all. JPG export is unavailable on iPad, Surface 9 and my S23U phone.
HDR JPG on your own site or gregbenzphotography.com/hdr-images/how-to-share-your-hdr-photos-on-the-web-directly-from-lightroom/
Instagram support seams to be coming soon, Samsung S24 supported.
@@gregbenzphotography I think I need to use Loghtroom Classic for what you showed in the video. Lightroom itself on PC and as found on mobile devices does not seem to have the HDR knobs when exporting JPG.
I will test S24 Ultra soon enough.
Thanks for your advice and excellent presentation. I get a really basic error message when using Export > HDR. The only preset showing is "HDR Projects 4 Professional" but the plugin is not installed in V13. When I select the Preset there are only two choices.... JPEG/TIFF, HDR sRGB (rec 709) / HDR P3. When I click Done there is an error message "Plugin not installed". Any ideas how to proceed?
Thats some third party tool you installed that created a preset looking for that tool, but it must have been removed since. I’d delete it.
I created the export from scratch. Just set a new export to use JPG and “HDR output”.
@@gregbenzphotography Full marks !! I did as you said and then it all came together. Many thanks !🤓
I can see the results in LR but once exported it’s like SDR (I’m on M1 Pro), I’m not sure how to display the HDR version ? My Iphone should display it as well and nothing.
Not all software supports it yet. And software that does won't necessarily show all HDR formats. Use HDR AVIF for Apple Photos app and HDR JPG gain maps for browsers (note that iPhone does not support HDR photos in any browser, very much hoping to see WebKit support added).
@@gregbenzphotography AVIF is displaying well in my Mac ! Thank you !
Hey Greg, I have an XDR display, and even with the new update, if I have my display on full brightness, I am getting that "flickering" or pulsating experience where it is bright and then dims down (which feels like a whole two stops) randomly. I have the display attached to a Mac Mini 2023 M2 Pro with the Apple display cable - in other words - it's not transfer speeds. If I lower the monitor display, it sort of stops, but then I'm not looking at the true image. Would you happen to have any solutions? Is this an Apple issue or an Adobe issue?
Are you seeing the image change appearance while you are doing nothing at all? If so, that is a bug (could be MacOS or LR). I've seen something like that with ACR when using my external XDR display and I believe with multiple monitors, but I don't recall seeing it on the laptop's internal Retina XDR display. I never found a specific trigger, but it would only flash in the image area - the actual ACR interface around the image was not affected. Does that sound like what you're seeing? Have you found any conditions which reliably trigger it? Is your problem in LR or ACR?
@@gregbenzphotography My setup is a 2023 Mac Mini M2 Pro 32GB with two Apple 34" XDR Monitors attached with two USB 4 (Apple-made) cables plugged in. If I have both monitors at full brightness, I get dimming flickering, which happens randomly. Even if I lower the second display to zero, it still happens. If I lower the display where I am using LRC to about 80%, The flicker stops, even if the second monitor is 100% brightness. So basically, half the HDR panel is black with the new HDR function. Make sense? I can send you a 30-second video clip if that would be helpful. (I'm a Lumenzia user.)
@@JaimeCasap Sounds fairly consistent with what I've seen (external XDR display and possible multiple screens). I have not noticed any dependency with brightness, but have seen MacOS glitches when brightness is at maximum or one bar below - and it specifically goes away one bar below that.
Feel free to email me a phone recording showing the issue on the screens. If you can find a way to trigger it reliably on command, that would be ideal, as then we'd have something to send to engineering. Without a way to reproduce the issue, will be hard to find it. You might try disconnecting one to see if the issue is exclusive to using multiple monitors.
The sustained thing is different and expected (just means that only a certain percentage of pixels can hit the max at the same time - due to energy regulations or technical limits for current/heat).
I guess for printing we have to stick to old way...
Yes, printers haven’t improved like this- but it’s easy to manage both. gregbenzphotography.com/hdr#printing
Thanks for tutorial, I have saved the image and now not sure how to preview it :) lol
iPhone and any image viewers showing me wrong color space image. Any solution, how do you preview image?@@gregbenzphotography
I work for film industry, and we use ACES color profiles, it preserves dynamic range from any professional big cameras >16stops, and easy converts to normal sRGB color space. Not sure why Adobe didn't join the proper way to edit raw.
So in windows do we have to enable HDR in the display settings everytime we want to correctly use this feature in Lightroom?
Not the Windows settings, but you would need to enable the toggle in LR, just like every other control - unless you set an import default, which would work.
@@gregbenzphotography thanks for the reply, I know you have to toggle it on in Lightroom however since Windows natively runs in SDR and to display HDR you have to manually change the display settings everytime unless im missing something.
@alyousuf the Windows setting should be sticky. It may reset on external displays (MacOS does that sometimes). Worth a bug report to MS if that’s what you see. Should be doable, though there are edge cases (such as using a couple of the same display and the manufacturer fails to send a serial number over HDMI to distinguish between the devices).
How does a hdr picture look like if printed? A print cant Display this kind of dynamic range
Don’t print it directly as HDR, you can just use some simple steps to manage both: gregbenzphotography.com/hdr#printing
@@gregbenzphotography thank you🍀
curious question, you are super awesome for all the responses to all questions I see. I just updated my Lightroom Classic on my M1 Max pro 16 with mini led display. the HDR preview looks stunning, when saving as p3 HDR jpeg. I cannot view in either preview or photos app. Currently on Mac OS 13.5.2. any suggestions.
Apple isn't showing JPG gain maps yet. Export HDR AVIF for use on iOS (desktop browsers like Chrome will properly use the JPG gain map on MacOS).
@@gregbenzphotography Can HDR AVIF actually be viewed in HDR on iOS in Safari (or Photos) though?
@DavidManouchehri Photos app yes, not iOS browsers at this point
@@gregbenzphotography Is there any way to show HDR photos in Safari on iOS? 🙂
@DavidManouchehri only video until Apple updates the software to allow it. You could put stills into a video format.
Something I don't understand with the new HDR is this - When I export the image it looks nothing like the HDR image in Lightroom . What I see in Lightroom when editing using HDR is what I want to also see when exporting, so am I missing something here or is there a setting in export that I need to review?
Need an HDR compatible viewer (such as the Chrome browser) in a format that viewer understands (HDR JPG for browser, HDR AVIF for native Apple Photos app).
LR export needs to check “HDR output”. You can open it in PS to check.
Same thing . I got MacBook Pro 14 inch M1 Pro . I see in the preview still shows normal image . How can I show this to the client is the final image .
Does this new possibility positivally concern image editing that is done primarily for 'fine art priting' ?
(Other then using it for only giving a fast preview of what is available in the raw file? -?)
It does not create a benefit for prints, as only monitors have improved to support this. But you can easily support both. gregbenzphotography.com/hdr#printing
@@gregbenzphotography Thank You very much, also for the link to those redacted 'thoughts' that totally reflect what I thought should be but suddenly doubted. Again thank You!
Hello. I discovered my computer monitor isn't HDR but I hooked my Mac mini which has an M2 Pro Chip to my TV which says it's HDR-10. It's a Samsung - 50" Class QN90C Neo QLED 4K UHD Smart Tizen TV. I first tried with a regular HDMI but am now trying a thuderbolt to hdmi converter while using an HDMI2.1. Are Macs limited to having a built in screen like using a Mac Book Pro? Any guidance would be appreciated.
Macs work great with HDR over HDMI to TVs. But there are several things to check. See my free e-book for details to troubleshoot. gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/
Thanks. I'll check it out. @@gregbenzphotography
Can i bring an hdr export of a timelapse into premiere pro to do hdr video? Is it possible to do now?
It should be, though you may need to experiment a bit to confirm which HDR file formats and color spaces are supported in Premier. Video can be a bit tricky. EXR and 32-bit TIF are most likely to be supported (I would not expect support for AVIF, JXL or JPG gain maps yet). FCPX and Davinci would definitely support it.
im completely unaware of how most of this works, but it seems you cant export and have it look as the file does with the HDR setting on. but you can screen capture or something and have that file look just like the file does in Lightroom with the HDR setting turned on. is there some work around to have it export to look as it does with the HDR setting applied?
You should export from LR as JPG or AVIF with "HDR output" turned on. You will need a compatible viewer to see it as proper HDR though, try opening in Chrome to confirm. I would share the JPG version on a website and use AVIF if using the Photos app on iOS. This will ultimately be supported probably everywhere, but not all software supports all formats yet.
thank you for the reply @@gregbenzphotography
My printing source uses sRGB JPEG. How does the new HDR mode effect printing_
You don't want to print HDR directly, but you can easily manage HDR and prints. Please see gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#printing
I also recommend considering a different print lab if they request sRGB. That's generally a sign of a lab support person who doesn't know what they're doing, but check to see if you can send wider gamut. You're losing a lot of printable color with sRGB (Adobe RGB, ProPhoto, and Rec2020 would all be better options). Adobe RGB is the simplest path to wide gamut printing, Rec2020 is even more ideal but not quite as simple to select with some Adobe software.
Can we print the HDR setting on? would it print with HDR on Print paper?
Yes, but it will use the SDR preview so I don't recommend it given the demands for a great print. A more optimal approach for serious printing is to edit for SDR and enhance that to HDR, that will give you the ultimate control over the print and still let you get most of the HDR benefit (you can always process twice to really go for it, but that isn't necessary). Or you can tone map the HDR in Photoshop via ACR (using the setting in PS prefs and Image / Mode / 16-bits on your 32-bit source) to get much more control over the conversion than just the 7 SDR preview sliders. It's quite easy to do once you explore the options a bit, but don't print directly from the HDR or you'll be disappointed. See gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#printing
@@gregbenzphotography Thanks for quick reply. Can you make a video on this how to do that also Can we do the HDR and SDR in layers in Photoshop and then use ACR tools and create final image mixture of HDR and SDR and then send it for print. Would that be printable?
How does that relate to printing?
see gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#printing
Is the Apple Studio display capable?
Yes, but it is 600 nits mini-LED and only offers modest HDR. Turn down the brightness to no more than half and you'll have HDR capability (see test #1 to confirm exact support at current brightness: gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#tests)
The Pro Display XDR or XDR display of the MacBook Pros (or 12.9" iPad Pro) is in another league as far as HDR quality - 1600 nits.
@@gregbenzphotography right on thanks
Great video Greg. I own a MacBook Pro 14" M1 Max. So it has the Apple XDR Display. And depending on the brightness I set it to it can show anywhere from 1 stop all the way to 4 stops of HDR in Lightroom. I also own a BenQ SW321C display. I like it because it is 32" so easier to use. But when i set it to HDR it only shows up to 1 stop of HDR in Lightroom. Can this be adjusted? I tried different things but no luck. Also if editing with an HDR display how does this affect printing. For example Canon PRO 300 printer or similar.
That monitor is much less capable than the XDR, which is outstanding . You can mirror the displays and optimize for the internal display to show a small reference as one option.
See also gregbenzphotography.com/hdr#printing
One of the reasons I upgraded to the MacBook Pro 14" was due to the outstanding XDR display. Also the Apple Silicon. Previous I had the 2016 Intel MacBook Pro. Huge difference. Its too bad the Apple Pro Display costs so much. Bit out of my price range. But will say its the right price for it.@@gregbenzphotography
@MikeNovakPhoto it’s amazing, I found one used with stand for $3000 on Craigslist.
Amazing video thanks for explaining in depth but does anyone know if there is some alternative or workaround that allows you to convert or export the HDR image to also work and display on any SDR screen? Because it you take a screenshot of the HDR file you should be able to view it just fine on an SDR display too? This means there should be a way to convert it right ?
Use the SDR preview and save with “HDR output” turned off. But better is a gain map you can offer both: gregbenzphotography.com/hdr-images/lightroom-adds-hdr-edit-and-export/
Thanks for the reply and your in depth info on the website but exporting using the method you show as a gain map for web browsers still does not guarantee the image will look the same across other devices is that correct? Is there any way to completely eliminate having to have a SDR fallback and keeping the final export looking as close to the HDR version you see in Lightroom but so it works with all SDR devices, essentially flatting the true HDR version so it becomes a SDR version in some sense? Similar to taking a screenshot of the file would retain the look and colors.
@@jclass7330 It is the most reliable way to show the image as you intend - even if the viewer doesn't have HDR support at all. It will render something between the SDR and HDR version. This is the most consistent and best possible way to share on screens which have inherently different limits and will be set to different brightness levels. The only method which would be superior to this would be a gain map where you have full manual control of the SDR (something I hope we see offered by Adobe in the future, as this would be useful for those who really want to optimize their art).
Other HDR formats without a gain map vary wildly because they each have their own method to generate the SDR (with no input from you and some are pretty awful).
Hey thanks for your replies and sorry for all the questions but which method are you referring to as the most reliable? The web browser method on your website?
so basically, HDR goes to 11.
What would be the best way to batch process say tens of thousands of edited raw files out of Lightroom, without manual input? @gregbenzphotography - do you think that will work? I could double check each image and discard those that "failed", but I can not re-process tens of thousands of photos.
I assume these are SDR edits, right?
My Web Sharp Pro software can automatically convert SDR to HDR. gregbenzphotography.com/photography-tips/exporting-avif-and-hdr-with-web-sharp-pro-v5-6/
Once you’ve done some HDR work for a bit, should feel pretty easy. Give me a shout if you have questions. gregbenzphotography.com/contact/
@@gregbenzphotography Yes, I was talking about all the edited raw files in Lightroom that were edited for SDR output. If there was a way to simply re-export all of those from Lightroom (now that it supports HDR output) while getting them as good as possible without manual input per file, since the volume of files is so large. I thought Web Sharp Pro was more of a Photoshop plugin for exporting files?
Great video, ................as always!
Thank you!