A Tale of Scientific Integrity
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
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We usually celebrate the big wins, the major discoveries, the eureka moments... but sometimes the most important moments in science aren't like this. Today we explore a pivotal moment that may have saved the field of exoplanets from a much darker path...
Written & presented by Prof. David Kipping. Thanks to Matt Bailes for graciously coming on.
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THANK-YOU to D. Smith, M. Sloan, L. Sanborn, C. Bottaccini, D. Daughaday, A. Jones, S. Brownlee, N. Kildal, Z. Star, E. West, T. Zajonc, C. Wolfred, L. Skov, G. Benson, A. De Vaal, M. Elliott, B. Daniluk, S. Vystoropskyi, S. Lee, Z. Danielson, C. Fitzgerald, C. Souter, M. Gillette, T. Jeffcoat, J. Rockett, D. Murphree, T. Donkin, K. Myers, A. Schoen, K. Dabrowski, J. Black, R. Ramezankhani, J. Armstrong, K. Weber, S. Marks, L. Robinson, S. Roulier, B. Smith, J. Cassese, J. Kruger, S. Way, P. Finch, S. Applegate, L. Watson, E. Zahnle, N. Gebben, J. Bergman, E. Dessoi, C. Macdonald, M. Hedlund, P. Kaup, C. Hays, W. Evans, D. Bansal, J. Curtin, J. Sturm, RAND Corp., M. Donovan, N. Corwin, M. Mangione, K. Howard, L. Deacon, G. Metts, R. Provost, B. Sigurjonsson, G. Fullwood, B. Walford, J. Boyd, N. De Haan, J. Gillmer, R. Williams, E. Garland, A. Leishman, A. Phan Le, R. Lovely, M. Spoto, A. Steele, K. Yarbrough, A. Cornejo, D. Compos, F. Demopoulos, G. Bylinsky, J. Werner, B. Pearson, S. Thayer, T. Edris, B. Seeley, F. Blood, M. O'Brien, P. Muzyka, D. Lee, J. Sargent, M. Czirr, F. Krotzer, I. Williams, J. Sattler, J. Smallbon, B. Reese, J. Yoder, O. Shabtay, X. Yao, S. Saverys & M. Pittelli
REFERENCES
► Bailes, M., Lyne, A. & Shemar, S. 1990, "A planet orbiting the neutron star PSR1829-10", Nature 352, 311: www.nature.com/articles/352311a0
MUSIC
Licensed by SoundStripe.com (SS) [shorturl.at/ptBHI], Artlist.io, via CC Attribution License (creativecommons.org/licenses/...) or with permission from the artist.
0:00: Arc - Hill
0:30: Falls - Ripley
2:07: Cylinder Seven - Chris Zabriskie
6:39: There is But One Good - Hill
24:32: Y - Joachim Heinrich
CHAPTERS
0:00 Nightmare Scenario
2:24 Astronomical Errors
4:55 BetterHelp
6:39 PSR 1829
8:49 Matt Bailes Interview
24:51 Painful Truths
26:54 Outro & Credits
#Integrity #Science #CoolWorlds - Věda a technologie
Thanks for watching, and thanks to our sponsor. Click betterhelp.com/coolworlds for 10% off your first month of therapy with our sponsor BetterHelp. Join over 4 million people who’ve met with a therapist on BetterHelp and started living a healthier, happier life. Let me know how you would have dealt with Matt's situation down below...
Please dont sponsor charlatans like better help. They are only a business, mental health isnt a business, better help exploit people for money under the guise of helping…… Mr Kipping Sir, with all due respect, shame on you for choosing such a partner……… Love you, Love your work and special the podcast but really? Who on your team guided you this way?
www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2023/03/ftc-says-online-counseling-service-betterhelp-pushed-people-handing-over-health-information-broke
@@JapanZen Agreed. So many CZcamsrs I love keep accepting Better Help sponsorships, and it's really disheartening. Better Help has so many documented issues including not kept patient information secure, and do not treat their costumers and therapists they've hired well. Please take a closer look at your sponsorships before accepting.
I also heard there is some criticism about better help. I haven't done too much research on it. But they are not what they appear. Since the video is about objective scientists and stuff. Maybe research what's going on with better help? I get you have a lot of sponsors and betterhelp seems like a cool business.. but I don't think they are....
Dont shill Better Help. Please look deeper and look at some testimonials of how awful their services are.
Science is hard.
Math is hard.
Integrity is harder.
Mad respect for standing up for all three.
90% of today's "The Science" is complete BS. The further away from reality and testing, the higher the percentage.
"Scientists" are most certainly not truth seekers.
indeed
“A world that celebrates stubbornness” is actually putting a kind, hopeful face on the matter. All too often, tragically, it’s a world that celebrates outright lies.
I was in this situation in grad school. I was literally writing my dissertation and was almost done. I could’ve covered it up and no one would’ve noticed for years, if ever. No one was checking my results. I went straight to my advisor, totally dejected, and told him I’d made a mistake. He was understanding and allowed me to repeat the key experiments for my thesis project. In the end, the conclusions were the same. But I felt better by admitting my error immediately, fixing it, and repeating my research.
Thank you, honorable human.
That’s great 👍👍
So where can we read your work?
Reminds me when I thought I had a proof for pi n had an error, was so mad at myself for overlooking a dam definition I made
I am happy for you. But this aspect of academia soured me. Stopped at an MFA. Had I picked a different school things may have been different. But I'm glad for the experience.
I showed this to my wife. We've have been in the process of divorce that I can confidently state, is now on hold. I've had trouble expressing how much I look up to people that can change their mind. I've been in the right in regards to the impetus of our issues. But I have to be willing to now practice what I preach in regards to the solutions. Not just quit. Thanks again. You have a wider impact than science.
Good luck my man; hope you two stay together and stronger.
@@stz03 thanks man. It's complicated and I've spent two long years putting in the effort for both of us. It's not something either of us chose, but I can't be the only one looking for a solution. I'm sorry to say, it looks dire once again. She feels hurt and betrayed because she thought I was cheating on her and helping others to spy on her. I was not, nor ever would. But the feelings she had were real so according to her, I betrayed her trust and broke her heart regardless the fact I didn't do those things. She conjured that up, yet I still get blamed. It's an untenable position that breeds contempt. I don't have any good options. I still see glimpses of the person she used to be, that's what makes it so difficult. She won't accept things I tell her. Too much venom. Time to save myself.
@benjaminbeard3736 Show her some funny memes or motivational posters. Not to mention all those hilarious cat pictures, those can surely hold your marriage together for a few more years...
Prof. Bailes is clearly a man & a scientist of enormous integrity and courage. Let's hope his example is followed by others, else the science naysayers will surely win. I come across this problem in my field (medicine) and I assure you there is not as much humility.
Thank you for sharing this.
As an MD myself, I can deeply agree. Humility is highly needed in our field (and it's painfully absent).
Mistakes can feel bad for sure, but the only people not making mistakes are those who don't work at all. And let's not forget that we learn from our mistakes, not from our successes.
We all know Prof. Bailes is one of very few exceptions. Scientists are just humans, and humans tend to be hypocrites. (And full of prejudices, too; that's why you and others here immediately jump to the idiotic concluson that I am a "science naysayer.")
There is no more believable statement than " I was Wrong" and its great integrity.
Can you imagine a politician in any level of office local or federal... making such an acknowledgement?
yup, and I was wrong about believing in relativity
I once spent years on a theoretical paper based on some very involved perturbation calculus, and it was absolutely crushing when a referee pointed out a minor error that gutted every single result - but after another year fixing things, I was able to tie it all together far more beautifully, and it was definitely all worth it
To discover integrity in public figures is a greater and more beneficial find than discovering exoplanets.
believe me, I've experienced that sinking feeling ... that horrified thought "how will we tell others!" and then a cold numbness... then the finality of it - that u have to accept the truth and tell it - as it is! It takes courage to do the right thing! congratulations! kudos!
Prof.Bailes what an amazing human being. Thank you Cool World for this amazing look at history!
Hadn't heard the full story before, a good watch. The world would be in a far better place if more people had such integrity.
The honesty and ability to humble themselves snd admit they made a mistake is so refreshing and respectable. I can completely understand why they got a standing ovation. Science is such a tricky subject and its full of 100s of examples of theories and ideas that ended up being incorrect. Even when mistakes are made, they're not useless. They're another learning experience.
Definitely worth applauding how much courage it took to admit that mistake alongside any major discovery that withstands scrutiny.
We all make mistakes. How we handle them is what defines us.
Amen.
exactly, and I made my choice
Pretty sure I’ve watched all of the CW videos on CZcams. This is one of the very best, it’s so “human” - thank you
Wow, thank you!
I was at an astronomy conference where the speaker did get a standing ovation. John Mather was to give a talk at a meeting of the American Astronomical Society in 1992 on the latest results from the Cosmic Background Explorer (COBE). He walked onto the stage and without saying a word, signaled for the first slide of the talk to be projected on the screen. This slide was just a plot showing the Black Body curve of the Universe derived from COBE data. Everyone immediately recognized the significance of that plot and the 1000 or so people in the audience simultaneously stood up and gave him a standing ovation. The applause lasted for quite some time, and only when the applause died down did he speak, first introducing himself and then mentioning the names of his collaborators.
Not too unexpectedly, my own poster paper at the conference garnered far less interest. Anyway, John Mather got the Nobel Prize in Physics in 2006 and I still work in obscurity.
Stay true, your time will come 💫
I really appreciated the unedited interview, despite it's lack of cinematics. There's few moments like these in our lives in which we can truly shape who we want to be and become. Watching the interview, it seemed that he unfortunately, still, blames himself for his past mistakes. I hope he understands the importance of the message he conveyed. Thank you for bringing it to us. :)
Yeah! Despite the low energy, it took me on a journey ^^
Not an academic but just love these videos. Thank you Prof.
This is a great story of science done right. When politics, ego, theology and ideology are stripped away this is how things should be done.
Impressive interview.
I sincerely appreciate your videos Prof. Kipping. When I was younger I read everything I could possibly get my hands on from Carl Sagan, these days I patiently wait for your new videos to drop. There is definitely a correlation between you and him. You, too, are able to romanticize these complex subjects, and that is truly a gift you have been given. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for being you.
Thanks professor Kipping your videos are the ones I hope pop up the most, you guys are the best.
Thanks so much
Would tiny Darwin a moon in my scfi universe with a Venus sized moon have an atmosphere at gadameat distance? As I've heard there radiation tortuses are horrible around gas giants.
Absolutely loved this video. Integrity is sadly an uncommon characteristic these days and I really appreciate you making a video about this story. The interview was so wholesome and he was so humbled and almost vulnerable. You can definitely tell he was genuinely upset about the mistake. Keep up the good work professor
May you get the JWST time on exo-moons that you deserve
YES
Ive been intrested in science since I was six years old .I got a science text book when I was six and that was when I first learned about black holes .
wow
Thanks a LOT for the interview, dr. Kipping! 😃
It's great to hear from a real scientist and humble human being... Even more in times like this, with lots of scandals happening with fake data and so on... It's refreshing.
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
The shame would be difficult to deal with for me, so I can only applaud their courage to be open about what happened. Great video!
In life as in science, the truth always wins in the end, no matter how many layers we burry it under.
To admit a mistake or to own up to a misdeed is really the only option.
Thank you for another great upload professor. There is a greater message here for all of those who
want to see it.
I feel lucky to have learned, when I was young, to admit when I make a mistake. Contrary to intuition, it gives others more confidence in you when they know you'll be honest when the inevitable mistakes occur. I strongly believe it's helped me get to where I am in my career and has made me a better person. I really can't imagine the opposite, the stress of lying or covering up mistakes when it's so much easier to own up and present a plan to ensure the same mistake won't happen again!
I'm too self destructive, I am a believer in integrity I'd stand up and tell the truth. I've been asked about my tendency to shoot myself in the feet. My answer is always it was not true. I couldn't live with myself if I lied.
That's integrity. You only feel bad because others' lie and have an overactive self-preservation 'gene'.
I love this so much! The humility to recognize and admit error makes us better, better as people and better as a society. It’s incredibly powerful to do so openly. Wonderful presentation Cool Worlds team
This may be my favorite of all the Cool Worlds' posts I have enjoyed. I believe I have seen all of them. Thank you!
I went to a physics club event where Bailes met us all in person (mostly 1st and 2nd year physics majors) and he was so generous and kind to everyone. Awesome scientist and person!
“What he was really observing… was the maintenance schedule” 😂🤣😂. I love how you phrased that. And, of course, what this guy *should* have done is claim discovery of the first few hundred planetary systems, the first “fully populated” spherical quadrant / field of view, of space 😄
This reminds me a bit of the Michelson-Morley experiment. Sometimes a mistake in theory or a failed result can indeed advance science rather than hold it back, if the real data is admitted and accepted in an open way. Their is no shame in error if it is held high as an opportunity for constructive criticism and a learning experience.
This has to be one of the best science videos I have seen on CZcams. I think this does so much for the credibility of science in general. I was once in the same position, after publishing a paper (not anywhere near the same impact as an exoplanet discovery, mind you) and then having to tell the principal investigator that I had made a software error. The discovery of that error was one of the worst moments of my life, but the reaction and support I got from the PI and the rest of the team was one of the best.
This hurts.
I got fired - in probation - at a bank for exposing just how bad the data - it was rotten to the core - after weeks of exposing it and being told to 'get on with my job' and not to speak to my colleagues about the substantial errors in the data. (The data was invented to fill holes in the database because someone didn't collect the data at the time.) And it didn't make any sense and was contradictory, but hey shoot the messenger.
I hate my former boss more than anything.
That’s awful, sorry that happened to you
Thanks@@CoolWorldsLab
They fired you. But if they acknowledge the problem and make a change, you may have saved their business!
800k!!! You did it, David! A millie is right around the corner. You deserve it. Your channel is incredible.
The fact that the man volunteered that he was wrong restores some of my lost faith in humanity. Well done sir.
Let's not forget the story of Alex Wolszczan, who had to follow up Andrew Lyne's "retraction talk" with his own talk saying "we discovered pulsar planets -- no really, we did" while being unaware of what the talk before his would ultimately be about. The clincher in Wolszczan's data was that he detected two pulsar planets, and was able to measure the pattern of timing variations induced by the gravitational interactions between the two pulsar planets, not just a simple periodic signal.
In the final conversation, to end on a positive note- ‘although mistakes were made, thank you for the science!’
Strangely enough very few, so called, scientists have the capacity and integrity to change their minds, much less openly admit that they got something wrong or made a mistake. Yet doing precisely that is the very backbone of science (and even civilisation as a whole). It's an iterative process. We all make mistakes, get things wrong, and misunderstand. We all shift our opinions a bit over time.
What really sets a scientist apart as a great one, or a person as truly honest is the ability to quickly change your mind in the face of new or better information, which includes realising that you made a mistake or didn't think something through enough.
I have enormous respect for the few people capable of this and nobody who wouldn't or couldn't do what the team involved in this story did should be called a scientist.
Everyone makes errors, correcting our errors is what makes anyone of us great and to stand out from the rest. Professor Bailes and his mentor stands out like shining examples that we should all strive to emulate in every aspect of our lives.
That's one of the most courageous things I've ever seen in science. The ability to stand up and say "I was wrong" is one of the rarest yet most important parts of good science.
The great discovery here is honesty... Such a rare find nowadays. My absolute respect!
I was always taught that the reason we can trust science is that peers are trying to prove a scientist's results wrong.
By my math, a scientist that has the wisdom to prove and admit his own result wrong is exactly TWICE as valuable than one who requires the additional peer.
Owning up to one's mistakes takes an enormous amount of courage, deep down we all know that is exactly the right thing to do. Admitting a mistake is not an admission of incompetence.
I have such massive respect for people that stand up and admit they are wrong, it's so hard to do. Huge respect to this man and his team, and thanks for bringing us this wonderful story Dr. Kipping.
There’s a story of an architect who had his building built and then learned it had a flaw and could topple. He went public to save lives and the New York skyline. Whole time thinking he’s finished yet instead he was celebrated. (The building was for a bank, it’s elevated to leave a church underneath untouched)
I think in the grand history of space science, this moment deserves a spot up around "Failure is not an option."
So refreshing. Thank you for sharing this story. And thanks to Prof. Bailes for his integrity. I have found admitting my own mistakes has been one of my best qualitifications, because it has propelled my learning to a new degree.
Thanks for this video. If a person is truly a person of science, then admitting failure is always the right thing to do, and I think earns the respect of fellow scientists, then ultimately puts the person on the path to success in the long run.
Thank you so much for this story. It's so important for people to be acknowledged for doing the right thing. These guys did a great thing and as you say, they stood up for the integrity and spirit of science and what it means for us all. As for you and this channel, what a wonderful and unique thing it is. I appreciate your calm, measured and engaging style. I could listen to you speak all day, not only for the knowledge and efficiency in communication but for the way your personality, empathy and humanity really shine through. Cheers, Matt (Sydney, AU)
To admit error publicly is one of the things that I believe demonstrates the greatest intelligence. That someone has the ability to objectively look at their work and correct it, is SO important.
As a personal aside: "I was wrong. Here's what I did wrong, and here's how I fixed it so it will not happen again..." has saved my ass in so many situations through life.
This was wonderful to see. Of course, the entire scientific method is set up to correct for the errors of individuals. And that is noble enough on its own. But it's especially good to see scientists out there who are willing to publicly correct mistakes in their own research and conclusions. Given what may be personally at stake for them, that takes extraordinary character.
Thankyou. One of your very best presentations yet. With our best yet to come. ❤
Excellent, I discovered this channel yesterday. I’ll say this.. David Attenborough brought us nature and wildlife. You bring us space, time and astronomy. Thank you!
Fantastic story. Removal of ego often reveals greater truths.
I might be crazy, but this story actually brought tears to my eyes several times. Tears of respect and hope for humanity..
I could feel the disappointment and frustration through the screen, so glad they found the courage to do the right thing even through those hard feelings. ❤
Really enjoyed this video.
The strength to do this is unimaginable and showcasing it is awesome. 2 things, in my opinion, it reduces pressure to do this in the future but also encourages it as well (which i love)
I cant imagine the pressure in such a narrow field where the glory is so sought after... it feels like the system is a bit flawed in that sense.
Thank you for these videos, giving us enthusiasts a peek into this area of study we love so much!
Always waiting for your next video ❤
Beautifull. That is an awesome story and was very courageous of them to admit they were wrong
Beautiful topic. Well done.
What is sad about a culture who only makes time and space for "success stories" is that THIS is actually super informative!
If we can somehow encourage this sort of culture think of how much we would all learn from each other!
Just another outstanding video! Thank you prof. Kipping!
Well presented! 😊
Important to never forget about humility, a good way in science is to remember that we advance by trial and error, and that is human nature to fail, and it is equally human nature to stand up, recover, learn from our mistakes and keep searching to understand how nature works! Thank you for sharing this story, very important for all of us scientist to stand to high ethical standards, which is something in great peril at the current moment.
Thank you for these great videos! Your thoughts are always very inspiring and insightful.
Another great presentation!!
Very well said. Massive respect. Reminds me of the fusion reactor nonsense on power production levels how it was reported by scientists as well or the wormhole being created in a lab (yeah on paper). No real retractions for that.
Dr. Dave and the cool worlds team, this episode puts the heartbeat into Tombaugh regio.
I wish you'd asked him to explain a great discovery for which he can take a good amount of credit. I have a passing interest in astronomy, and now the only thing I know Professor Bailes for is "that guy that was wrong about an exoplanet that time", which I feel is probably an incredible disservice to him.
As mentioned in the video, he’s made major contributions to the study of pulsars and the discovery of fast radio bursts
@@CoolWorldsLab Listen, you're the guy who makes youtube videos, and I'm just an idiot who watches them, so I can only give you my perspective here. I overstepped my mark in the initial comment providing a suggestion, that's not my job.
I watch this channel whenever it puts up a video. A lot of them talk about exoplanets, so I'm at least somewhat familiar with the idea.
This video has one sentence in passing, saying he is a "giant" in two fields without explanation, (what is an FRB? I know what a pulsar is but why is he a "giant"? Did he capture that waveform that Joy Division used?).
This is followed by an exactly sixteen minute interview with the man who found and then unfound the very first exoplanet, which completely blows the aforementioned sentence out of my (tiny) brain.
@@AsdayasmanFRB=Fast Radio Burst and Prof Bailes has a wiki page to see what he’s done/doing.
@@GrumpyOldFart2 I believe you've missed my point.
@@Asdayasman Excuse me. You asked what FRB was and I answered that. And no, I didn’t miss your point. I just thought you’d like a little extra info on the guy, which is why I mentioned the wiki.
A great post and reminder to be humble.
Great interview!
Nothing that is lasting and good comes easy. In a manner of speaking.
Thank you for the video.
As usual you taught us a very useful lesson
To me, the times I've felt the greatest sigh of relief was when I found out I was wrong about something, and then admitted it to the rightful person. It was like a weight off my shoulders, and then I could finally work to correct myself and make amends. 😊
Loved the episode. ❤
Excellent episode. As an Australian (earth) scientist I’m especially proud of Dr Bailes.
Honesty and transparency are the lifeblood of science. We should take care to make sure scientists feel safe when they make mistakes to reveal them.
Your intro is a much needed public statement on the issues facing modern academia, and the science it puts out. It's applicable across the entire spectrum of science and it has gone ignored for too long.
Sadly I don't think anything will change n the near future, but at least one voice with an audience inadvertently touched upon it.
Wonderful integrity like this is so rare.
Courageous Man ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
love these
This video was incredible!
Wow. So much respect for him.
Best episode yet
Congratulations on 800,000 subscribers! And here's to 800,000 more!
What an amazing episode.
Honesty despite how mortifying it felt ! Feeling so proud for them! I totally get the standing ovation❤
I teach in a working environment ( healthcare) and tell everyone, be honest, say what you don’t understand or know. Do not be embarrassed nor a free styling cowboy. Obviously the stakes are high in healthcare. We only succeed as individuals or a team, if we work together as a team with honesty.
The pressures around us make it hard.
What a wise Prof you are.
Again just found this channel🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Man, what awesome comments! Should have read them before posting mine.
Just a ton a reinforcement about how respected humility can be.
So many of us have been there
Brilliant episode.
It's very difficult to convince someone they're wrong if their career/life depends on it. Those that admit to their mistakes deserve the utmost respect, celebration, and fame.
Thank you.
What a good message.
Absolute legends!
insightful
👍
That was a great video, much enjoyed.
I play a videogame called eve online. There used to be a mini game in which we would look at those periodic graphs (that were part of actual datasets) as a form of open source scientific data processing. I was very young at the time so didn't quite get it but its really cool that this video has retroactively made it make sense.
The same game and minigame exist but instead of exoplanets its now crowdsource data processing for some sort of cell analysis
Been there many times. The first time in a professional setting is the hardest to own up to. But once you do it the first time, the second is far easier.
I think I'd be able to admit the mistake: I already received all the media attention, probably some promotion and some other stuff no one will ever retract from me; now, I can safely admit the mistake and lose nothing.