Hawken flintlock rifle: Review and introduction to muzzleloaders
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- čas přidán 4. 08. 2024
- This is a review of the .54 cal Hawken black powder rifle made by Investarm in Italy.
The video also gives a quick introduction to flintlock rifles / muskets in general.
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There's a certain beauty to flintlocks that you don't really see in modern firearms.
The wood. Wooden weapons are beautiful.. in my opinion.
The Azer They stopped using wood in military warfare in the 40's, and i'm not sure it's a shame, i love the maple stock in my winchester, but imagine a wooden stock M4A2...
MJuegaES www.turnbullmfg.com/store.asp?pid=37491
It exists.
You should see the mexican cartel weapons. They are mass produced weapons with many post production modifications such as etchings and inlays. But in general I agree mass production seems to be the death of art.
Not unless you get a Purdey, or something along those lines.
Reloading one of those looks kinda fun.
Lead is most dangerous in it's atomized or "powder" form. Some go to the added trouble of wearing gloves when handling the solid, however, as long as you give your hands a good wash after handling it you should be fine with out them.
Ragitsu None really even with less than half-decent ventilation. The rounds are copper-jacketed for the most part.
NSchnatter190 Outdoors i
@@Sgreeonk You are so wong!!!!! said Elmer Fudd
I got my Pedersoli traditional Hawken a few months ago and absolutely love this rifle. Cant wait to make my first hunting video with it. Thanks for posting.
don't know about you guys but I love the smell of sulfur
I've shot a similar rifle to the one in this video, and it can be hard to keep it on target. The pan charge can make you flinch and the time from trigger pull to projectile exit is much longer than on cartridge guns. I've read that a good flintlock can be fired upside down, because the action moves fast enough that the pan powder doesn't have time to fall out.
The owner of that rifle explained the purpose of the powder measure quite well. In his words, if an ember sets off the measured charge, "the measure will fly into the air and you'll say a few words your mother wishes you didn't know." On the other hand, if you pour straight from the powder horn (which is what the owner used) and it goes off, you'll probably die.
Excellent description and review. Thanks for the refresher on the powder and charging. I have the Thompson / Center / CVA Hawken flintlock. Fun to shoot!
Nice shots of you and Cara shooting the rifle. Total coolness and thanks for the info.
nice rifle , I`ve owned several flintlocks since 1979 , and have enjoyed target shooting and hunting with all of them !
I'm in the market for a flintlock, this one or a Lyman Great plains. This is a good review of this rifle. Good views of the parts, an actual spark from the flint.....thank you sir!
Damn. Man, it was the most interesting video I've seen in the last year!
That thing is awesome, it's official.
Cool video. Have you considered trying Minié balls? No patch to worry about and supposedly they help reduce barrel fouling. Or is the twist rate in this rifle too slow for them?
These are great rifles, bought one as a gift for my friend. I enjoy it a lot as I have shot it. I think I'm going to buy a Kentucky or penselvania myself.
Thanks for the review. I'm considering getting one.
Great video! Thanks for sharing.
Good video and tutorial. Much appreciated.
Thank you, for introducing us to that beauty :)
Very nice. Even better when you can get that lovely Swiss black powder.
Great Video. It was very helpfull. Thank You
Excellent firearm.in its day was top of the line. And fun to use today...also really deadly to deers and wild game.
If I started a gun collection I think this would make a nice addition. :)
Pyrodex is intentionally more difficult to ignite. The spark may not be enough to do so in the pan. It's perfectly fine in a Caplock though.
Lead is perfectly safe to handle and hold. Just don't suck on your fingers without washing them first. =P
A quick way to clear fouling is to piss down the barrel, but for Christ's sake make sure that the gun isn't charged.
I can't help but imagining that being a terrible accident waiting to happen (imagine explaining it to the EMTs)... And I'm not sure I'd want my rifle to smell like a mens restroom. XD
TinnedTommy lol
Or y'know, a 2 dollar bottle of Windex?
@@DFX2KX I hear you.
Really very nice !! I, too, am a fan of muzzle loading firearms !! The models I have are all with percussion ignition. I want to try a model with a flintlock ignition. When braced a shotgun, are left-handed, I'm afraid to burn your face.
@Skallagrim
If you want to be historically accurate when shooting then you shouldn't be using .54 caliber balls in a .54 caliber flintlock rifle. The reason why historical armies used balls significantly smaller than the rifle's bore was been in battle after only a few shots, as you mentioned, the fouling is too great to push a full size ball down the barrel.
Look carefully - it's not a military arm.
That is a beautiful gun.
Beauty, though personally I'd like to get a replica Brown Bress and Baker Rifle as far as flintlocks go. RULE BRITANNIA! Those Italians know how to make a good firearm, it would seem! Not really a huge fan of my Mannlicher-Carcano, but it's certainly not a BAD rifle :)
Were you shooting at Twin City Rifle Club in New Hamburg in that video? It looks like my old range. Just curious. Thanks for the video. I was looking at buying that exact same rifle and just don't know much about black powder guns yet.
Some Investarms rifles came with a stainless steel barrel liner. If you see one for sale, buy it. They are gems.
It's firearms like this that make me want to procure a firearms license. I would love to own a piece like that for the historical value, and for when I would go to a range. Perhaps I will look into this in a few years when I get out of university, get a job, and get a sustainable income.
Well, depending on where you live, you don't even have to go though the rigamarole of a license. The US doesn't even consider them 'guns' for the sake of paperwork, and British Columbia exempts them from any real fuss, either (however in BC's case, it's flint and match locks only, percussion doesn't count, IIRC)
Holy moly! That rifle is so pretty, man!
That's a very beautiful weapon you got there. :)
Very informative
it inst that pyrodex cant be used in a flintlock but that the flash from the pan will not ignite the pyrodex u can in a pinch put a little black powder down first maybe 25-30 grain and pyrodex for rest of charge and the patch is also to help the round ball engage rifling as it is slightly smaller than the bore and extra tip try to replace the wood ram rod with a fiberglass or aluminium replacement less chance of breaking good idea to keep a plastic or wooden handle screwdriver good to tap pin out and disassemble the gun i would also oiling the frissim is good idea if long term storage oil wont hurt ignition but rust will
Funny thing, when using the set trigger (rear) it always makes me feel nervous...like something BIG is going to happen. I wonder if others feel this way? This falls deer hunt, it's .50 cal. Hawken or nothing. I love the nostalgia and accuracy.
do you know about the paper or cloth cartridges? And I think minié bullet would be more precise than a round ball.
Any knowledge on the pin rifles? The Prussian ones?
Thinking About Buying This
Great in depth review. I must say that the rifle is rather beautiful.
Just wondering, do you have to replace the frizzle after long term use? Not too sure about how the flintlock system works in general, so please pardon any ignorance.
Would love to own one of these some day, but with gun restrictions here it might just be cheaper to move to Canada. ;)
It would probably be quite a long time until you'd have to think about replacing the frizzen. My guess is longer than a lifetime. :)
Good video the Hawken gun always reminds me of Jeremiah Johnson. I noticed your powder flask does it have a safety feature on it. Keith Another CZcams channel I watch had some very interesting things to say about Powderhorn's give it a look.
#18th Century Powder Horns Authenticity & Safety By Keith H Burgess #2
Black powder firearms are one of the funnier way to do target shooting, i have a lots of different type of firearms in my family, but my heart always beat for my two 36 and 45 black powder revolver, and my little pocket punch pistol (sort of derringer but made in italy). I love the feeling with these sort of firearm, they are very versatile, you want to shoot for accuracy ? Just load them with a light charge for no recoil, you want to have fun ? just pour some more and here is the fun ! :D
im really debating on buying one of these
Sehr gut!
im buying one of these , not sure where you got yours but there like 600 at cabelas , the only thing i dont like is the modern rear sight,
love you, sir.
I need front sight for hauken side hammer cap.n ball. T c,please reply.
Thanks for the interesting video, Skallagrim. I know it's an oldie, but maybe you could enlighten me here: It makes perfect sense to have a separate, smaller powder measuring cartridge, so that you don't accidentally blow up the whole flask. But while safe, it seems quite time-consuming. Do you know how soldiers in the field would have approached this? Risk an explosion to save time? Or was there a kind of special tool, like a flask with some kind of measuring device? Before the invention of paper cartridges, I mean.
I had been wondering this myself but after getting into black powder shooting and learning more about the weapons what I've found is it is unlikely to have been an issue. Soldiers, as in regular army, generally did not use rifled weapons until AFTER the invention of paper cartridges, which were well in use by the 1700's. Of course there are exceptions, such as in the US the famous mountain men with their long rifles but I'm inclined to think they were more skirmishers. Having loaded and fired such weapons many times now (modern reproductions any way) it is indeed a tight fit between patched ball and barrel and there is no way anyone would have used paper cartridges in them. I guess though once they did have paper cartidges for rifles (or rather when troops switched to rifles after having been using paper cartidges) they used smaller diameter balls to allow for the paper to fit...
In fact I suspect the militaries kept using smoothbores long after the invention of the early rifle not just cause they were easier to manufacture but as it allowed the use of paper cartidges and faster loading compared to rifles with patched balls. Only ever fired a smoothbore musket once (an original 1840's example) and it was indeed faster to load with a paper cartidge than a rifle and patched ball of same period, but not only that it was EASIER as there were less things to have to have at hand - no patch, ball starter, etc. I imagine ranks of soldiers fumbling with all the above and shudder; the battle would be lost!
Will you be getting more flintlock rifles or flintlock pistols?
My brother does Mountain Man recreation activities and he has two Hawken reproductions. One observer made the complaint that the weapon was slow to load, whereupon my brother simply said "Why do you think I have two?" He then went on to explain the rifled Hawken was slow to load as opposed to a smoothbore musket, but that the Hawken was never meant to be used as a "combat" weapon; It was prized for it's accuracy and hitting power by the trappers, hunters and Mountain Men who carried the weapon. One historical comment was made where a trapper was asked what he would do if a dozen "hostiles" came at him, and he replied he would get on his horse and ride like hell. Apparently he never had a problem with an elk or buffalo charging him. It was a fine weapon, a very good transition from the smoothbore musket to the later cap and ball rifled muskets that were used in the Civil War. I had never seen the marked loading device you showed. It might seem antiquated today but I suspect for its time it was a very scientific advancement.
Is there a left handed version available? It's a beautiful rifle and I'd love to own one.
There is left version both in flintlock and percussion version,offered by Pedersoli.
just so your clear, a flask has a tube with a valve that closes the flash to the powder in the flask. Different tube lengths available ie| 40, 60, etc
amazingly beautifull, the care you have to give to it build in even more amazingness in my opinion. but utterly unpratical. me? i would(in battle) still be using longbows(and maybe a flintlock light pistol) and a sword by the early 19th century.
I really think that the main thing is that if you handle lead, you don't eat anything before washing your hands. That's much worse.
Flintlocks need to be cleaned after 4 or 5 shots? No wonder they needed 5,000 guys for a battle.
+vettelover2009 absolute tosh! Blackpowder is not as corrosive as you say. It gained this reputation after the introduction of mercury fulminate percussion caps. The corrosive nature of blackpowder is entirely dependent on the humidity of the air where it is stored after firing. Murphey's Muskets channel has an excellent video illustrating my point.
***** You are way too angry.
***** Calm down pumpkin! It's just the internet!
***** Such rage! Pop some prozac and crawl back into your basement of butthurt why don't you!
I agree - black powder is not nearly as bad as many say. I get the feeling that they are parroting what they have read. If ignored, it takes quite some time for corrosion to become severe ie visually unappealing after several weeks but still will clean up nice with no apparent harm to rifling. Cleaning with hot water is not even necessary, wiping the weapon down and applying the proper grease works better in the long run.
Awesome! PGR&GC LOL My back yard.
Just like to add that you can run 2f powder in a 50 cal reliably if you prefer or are unable to acquire 3f. In my 40 years of Shooting .54s and .50s, I only use 2f in the barrel and 4f in the pan.
I have a pedersoli Kentucky rifle. I only wish it was this easy to disassemble. I have to knock out 2 hair size pins without damaging the nice wood stock. Its harder than it sounds and its the only way to get the thing absolutely clean. I absolutely love it but I think my next one might be a Hawken.
Yeah the quality is good. Its just the original design of the gun that makes it hard to disassemble.
wearing gloves for lead? our country sure is hardcroe we usually use teeth to form lead to right size
Chinchilla HarpSeal
ru
Chinchilla HarpSeal I do it in the US.
this reminds me of the tanagesima (i know im typing it wrong) from MGS4..the one that produced a tornado after shooting..
Tanegashima was its name, and it's around the same sort of thing- Tanegashima was the one given to the first few muskets the Japanese made out of Portuguese designs!
Are those still licensed free in Canada?
You should demonstrate some longsword disarm techniques.
Try building a lot of you have the tools and time. Very satisfying
Won't the patches be stuck into the barrel? If so how do you remove them.
No, they are pushed out of the barrel when firing.
Nice! Seems like a really fun gun to shoot, I love the whole vintage and almost artistic care that these kinds of guns require!
that thing is beautiful. wish i could get hold of one.
They sell kits for about 300 dollars no ffl required they ship right to your door.
Could you do a review or update on the clear ballistic gel after you have melted it down a few times so that we can see how well it retains its clearness?
Sure. My main challenge right now is to find a suitable heat resistant container and mold, so it's going to take me a while.
Thanks Skall.
P.S. You replying to my comment made my day ^_^
I believe it's 1 in 48 twist but why not pyrodex? I have a cap gun and pyrodex is recommended.
Do you still have this gun?
I may not personally care for firearms, but damn that's a sexy rifle.
Can't go wrong with brass, wood, and blackened iron/steel~
It needs so much care, and yet there is something about flintlocks that appeals to me. Must be wood and brass.
is that a Davide-Pedersoli?
I usually use 3F for priming.
I wonder, what keeps the bullet in the barrel if you aim downwards ?
Gloin79 friction of the wad
The barrel fouling makes me wonder how soldiers managed with these weapons during protracted battles. Did they just struggle with the weapons or was there some sort of mid-battle cleaning procedure?
Ostsol they used smaller balls than the barrel
A not uncommon practice was to actually piss down the barrel and run a few patches when the battle wasn't too thick near you. That and the typical line infantry didn't focus on accuracy so ramming the same size lead ball down through the fouling was usually good enough.
Would a Blunderbuss blast through plate armor? Or a flintlock pistol from the pirate era?
+Klik'ssi Ikub'ra depends. you could, theoretically, force a steel penetrator into a soft lead conical bullet and load that into a flintlock. idk if pirates had conical bullets tho, i think they used mostly smoothbore guns
The golden age piracy was during the renaissance, right? I'm going to have to check that.
Kliksi - there was some plate produced at the end of the plate armor era that was designed to stop (and did stop) ball projectiles. Such armor will have a dent from proof testing. A not very well known part of history.
I was just wondering, when hearing in your video that you had to clean the rifle with warm soapy water after 5-6 shots. At the time of, for example, Napoleon I. during the late 18th and early 19th century, battles lasted many hours, sometimes 1-2 days. The armies were using flintlock muskets. During those hours, soldiers would have shot those muskets maybe many times. How would they have been able to acquire warm soapy water in the field, to clean their muskets? Or would maybe muskets be easier to clean, as compared to rifles?
***** Dry patch is better than nothing.
Ballistol is all you need at the range its a clp that works well just don't get it on brass.
The need to clean a smoothbore is not nearly as great as a rifle. The armies of Napoleon used smoothbore muskets which would should relatively the same no matter how many rounds were fired. The undersized balls used helped deal with fouling buildup. The main concern was fouling blocking the touch hole which would cause misfires if not cleared.
Isn't chlorinated water something bad to soak an old firearm in anyways?
I have a sword question. Which sword is usually longer, the longsword or the bastard sword?
In blade length.
Can you use rifled balls?
Run a brush and a cleaning patch every two shots to displace file in the rifling
One note: it's fine to handle lead with your bare hands, don't be overly paranoid about it, it's not going to be absorbed through your skin. What you do need to be concerned about is ingesting lead residues, but all you need to do is wash your hands after you've been handling lead.
Pyrodex is a black powder substitute and has the same property's as black powder. I use it in my black powder firearms and have had no issues.
pyrodex is more corrosive and worse for condition.
Pyrodex is not more corrosive then black powder. As a matter of fact neither one is corrosive until fired. Pyrodex is much cleaner and it ignites easier in damp weather that is the whole reason to use Pyrodex. You are the only person I have ever heard say that it is more corrosive then black powder. I have used black powder and it is very dirty compared to Pyrodex. But no matter which you use if you clean your rifle properly corrosion is not an issue. Another good reason to use Pyrodex is you can get it at any Wal-Mart.
Pyrodex is cleaner then black powder and resists moisture better. If you want clean don't use a muzzle loader.
***** I like Pyrodex it works for me so there is no argument. We all have our own opinions on what we like. I clean My Hawken well after every use. Hot water and dish soap work well to clean it. Better then powder solvent.
I would love to own one, and yes I even could get one because single shot muzzle loaders don't require a license in Germany.... but black powder does....So that's were the cat bites itself in the tail😬
I have the certificate of competence when it comes to weapons with modern style ammo, but to handle black powder legally it is necessary to make a reloaders course of I believe 3 days or something with a theoretical test at the end and what not😤
But one day I will do it.....
När alla talar om vapenlicens. vet någon om man kan äga antika skjutvapen i Sverige utan licens?
Please do more videos on autopistols and assault rifles...just kidding u r Canadian, a subject of the Queen
So what? There are plenty of semi-auto pistols and rifles like the Ar-15 or the Vz58 available in Canada.
Sorry, my dad is a Canadian citizen and for anti-gun rights, so something inside of me wants to make fun of them. Canada is more like the US than most Americans want to admit.
use hopps 9 works great
I think the vent hole is too high for firing the charge in the barrel. At best it would cause a later fire. The ideal vent hole is immediately in line with the base of the pan.
Mir ist aufgefallen das dein Lauf einen Drall hat. Giebt es einen bestimten Grund weshalb du runde Bleikugeln benutzt und nicht etwa eine Miniékugel? Soweit ich weiß sind .54 Caliber Minié Ball Molds ab ca 90 $ erhältlich. Es wäre interessant zu sehen ob sich Prätzision und Durchschlagskraft verbessern würden (sofern du daran interessiert wärst jedes mal neue Kugeln zu gießen was recht anstrengend und giftig seien kann). Ich hoffe das war in irgend einer Form relevant und ich wünsche dir noch genauso viel spaß beim produzieren deiner Videos wie ich ihn habe wenn ich sie mir ansehe.
Grüße aus Deutschland vom Sportschützen
Alex
+AmazingKrimispinner For some reason, I can't view the replies to you, but in case someone missed it: this rifle was designed prior to the Minié ball, so a round ball is historically accurate.
Auf Deutsch mit Google Translate:
Aus irgendeinem Grund kann ich die Antworten nicht anzeigen zu Ihnen, aber falls jemand es verpasst: Das Gewehr wurde vor dem Miniékugel ausgebildet, so dass eine runde Kugel ist historisch korrekt.
+AmazingKrimispinner Der Drall einer Hawken ist üblicherweise für Rundkugeln ausgelegt d.h. flach. Minié-Geschosse hingegen benötigen einen steilen Drall, ansonsten sind sie wesentlich weniger präzise.
does it require registration and licensing in Canada for a flintlock
+Brett Duffy
No.
+Skallagrim precussion yes unless orignal. how can u get that but not a bb gun over 500 fps that does more damage then pellet gun.. i gues no background check either
+TasukeLP oh no 200 joule
+Brett Duffy No. No PAL required for flintlock rifles.
.54 caliber? Flintlock? You are a real man! *like me. LOL. I have Thompson Centers in .54, ,58, and a CVA in .50. I may be getting a .50 TC Renegade soon.
Whats so special about .54? .69 is where the Charleville is at.
+Mr Mundy, did you miss the "LOL" in my post?
.69 is fine for sex but in a muzzleloader, it's just compensating for something. LOL
Last time I checked "lol" wasnt a sign of anything but amusement.
You can tell me what you want, there is a reason that for more then 50 years all decent/good muskets were based of the 1777.
+Mr Mundy, learn how to take a joke man. "LOL" following a statement, indicates the statement was in jest.
wouldn't civil war style bullets dramatically improve your accuracy over the ball style bullet you are using?
Wow its weird seeing you do a gun review but you have a beautiful rife what r the gun laws like were your at
In my opinion, flintlock rifles are some of the prettiest rifles. Again, just my opinion, other rifles are pretty too.
Quite a few of the blokes at my club shoot muzzleloading revolvers, and apparently their wives complain a lot about the smell and dirt of cleaning :D
I have the same rifle
dawn works the best for down the barrel
Does anyone know where a Canadian can buy a nice flintlock pistol that is incapable of firing? I don't want to go through licensing for one, I just fancy it as a decoration...
did you watch all the video? because he says you don't need one lol
Tyler Lalonde I'm not sure if that lack of a need for a license also applies to pistols like it does flintlock rifles in Canada.
well if they are a 'true' antique 1897(87?) They are legal to own as is. Pistol yo rifle. If they are modern reproductions, they require a PAL. It may be cheaper to buy 'new' and then have them deactivated. Try: Collector's Source; P&S Militaria; Wholesale Shooting Sports; Canadian Gun Nuts (equipment exchange) forum and gun shows, eg HACS, etc.
Cheers!
There is an online boutique called Zoltan Gal in Calgary that carries legal antique replicas at reasonable prices.
Discriminating General sells flintlock pistols of decent quality without the touch holes drilled so they aren't legally firearms of any description.
Ah, alas. A musket isn't something I plan on adding to my budding collection soon. Perhaps one day.
I love living in north carolina, no lisence required for rifles or shotguns, only for pistols.
I am of 2 minds with that. 1 it's easy :). 2, EVERYONE can get one :(... I don't mind vetting the incompetent, it was the narrowing of options that irks me. Furthermore, it also eliminates the fear mongering about "gun show loopholes:" it is the 'car license' representing both government syndicated ownership, and that you receive daily background checks ~ no "waiting time" required when purchasing.
Have you tried shooting minnie-balls through it? For accuracy, I mean.
Thats is gun;) I like it, I have build one too,)
It shoots .529 caliber pommels