So, Cloudflare Responded...
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- čas přidán 6. 06. 2024
- DO NOT BRIGADE MATT.
I was incredibly disappointed in Cloudflare's "response" to the recent drama, so I felt like I should use my platform to call it out.
If you don't have clear, explicit, PUBLIC pricing, you're in no position to do stuff like this. Genuinely sad to see CF damaging their brand and scaring their users like this.
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Cloudflare Engineering: 😎😎😎😎
CF Management and Sales: 🤡🤡🤡🤡
Typical Corporate BS
Cloudflare vs Clownflare
Nah I think its the engineers finding out one single customer was the problem (casino ruining it for everyone else), then being passive aggressive and telling the sales team to charge them "EFF uew" pricing to make them go away. Then the sales team stupidly thought they were actually trying to make a sale and were not sent on a "no return" mission. This has always been the M.O. of cloudflare, the just used to do it to places like sto rmfron t and nobody cared for good reason.
Cloudflare Trust and Safety Team - Imposters
0nlyFans Engineering: 🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆
What's my reply got to do with CloudFlare: ...
404 NOT FOUND ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> - CloudFlare copyright 2024
Their engineering isn't that great either.
"We're running out of IPv4 addresses & need to move to v6" was a bullet point in my Solaris admin class when I was an instructor for Sun ~30 years ago...
It's really the ISP's fault at this point. Tech companies don't want to move to v6 (exclusively) because most consumer ISPs still only support v4 and wouldn't be able to route v6 to their websites at all. The country with the best v6 deployment is France with 75%, and that's still 25% of people who can't reach IPv6-only services. We're not there yet...
@@appelnonsurtaxeI don’t know for sure but I feel like every large ISP already supports IPv6… who doesn’t? I worked for a small datacenter in the past and we got IPv6 working somewhere around 2016 and all the larger ISPs already had it. Also IPv4 can talk to IPv6 and you can still use NAT with v6, so I don’t think there’s many technical reasons to not use v6. Maybe some specific services somewhere aren’t supported. I think it’s just that v4 is easier to use, and honestly the problem with “running out of v4 addresses” was kind of exaggerated… the big tech companies own millions of v4 addresses each that I’m sure they don’t need and nat makes it easy to connect tons of private IPs to one public IP.
Lots of people want a move to IPv6 as the address space is so large that individual people can have a static IP address assigned to them. Just like a social security number, this set of IPv6 addresses would not change, thus the address is basically the person. If the IPv6 address is banned, then that person is in effect banned (or throttled or tracked).
@@animejanai4657 wellll, you'll still have TTL for ip addresses, and the ability to ask your isp to allocate you a new one early. It's nothing like a social security number in pretty much any way, but your computer will have it's own IP rather than having to port forward!
@@animejanai4657can have != will be forced to. iOS devices already break the implicit contract of unique per NIC MAC addresses with their private address functionality, there would be nothing to stop users from doing the same.
Optimal situation would have been: "emergency email: your site is being blocked in some countries, which is blocking our customers because you are on a shared IP, since you are not on the enterprise plan. We need a meeting now!". Meeting: "we move you to the enterprise plan. First month for free and within 2 days you need to change the IP-adress".
If this is your application to be the new Cloudflare CEO, you have my vote
Are you a Cloudflare insider? This is what I assumed happened. I believe a certain country very recently just updated their online gambling laws, so this was quite possibly what happened, Cloudflare was at risk in that country.
@@jay.rhoden No I'm not :). But you are right that this is almost what happened. Except for the sale team taking all the calls, it was unclear what happened and there was no free transition period. Just goes to show how little you have to change in order to solve these issues in a proper way.
He wanted the company to go away and not be a customer. You way assumes he wants to keep their business.
@@05xpeter So true. It's funny how many businesses wouldn't complain and would just eat the 10k a month cost for a few months, or opt into a year contract after the first free month, because they didn't want to risk the stability of their business. A little bit of sugar makes the medicine go down.
Yet, Cloudflare managed to exploit their client so horribly that they didn't even make any money off that sale, all for the low low cost of completely destroying their reputation in the eyes of many engineers. It's almost tragic how badly this was handled. Cloudflare managed to get many people to sympathize with an online gambling company, which is genuinely surprising. It's difficult for me to realize how badly CF screwed up this PR disaster.
I just don't understand how it's so difficult for companies to just communicate properly to their paying, good customers. Sure, if there's an emergency and everything's burning, it's completely understandable. But in the daily business - eh, makes me wanna move away from those...
Actually it's not always about the company. It's because of person in that company handling that situation.
It's what happens when upper management stop seeing customers as people but instead as an annoyance that should just hand over their money and stop complaining.
A lot of times it is about the company, or the countries involved.
Policy and red tape sometimes make it literally impossible to drop dangerous customers before they break something even if it can be proven that they eventually will. Sometimes these kinds of billing maneuvers are the only way internal members can protect themselves without facing legal action or breaking company policy.
You said good customer, Cloudflare has always done this to whomever the CEO thinks is not a good customer, he just usually targets people that X mobs already don't like, so they don't usually notice. This is why he is probably so flippant on the X/Twitter, since he considers himself part of the mob, and not the right target.
@@houstonbova3136 I understand that individual employees have often their hands tied because of company policy. I'm not blaming them. I just think that more honest policies would often be a better way to go.
If some client seems to be dangerous. There is probably a way to refuse service, or make another agreement to prevent the company being held liable. But even then you can be transparent imo.
His response shows a fundamental misunderstanding of why what they did was wrong.
It isn't wrong to request higher prices to be paid or to not want to do business with people who could undermine your business.
IT IS wrong to lie or hide what the issue is and punish people for a "crime" they didn't know they committed. It is wrong to call sales for something that was allegedly a trust and safety issue.
It is wrong to have 1 day ultimatums on this type of stuff except where absolutely necessary, but judging by the sales calls it clearly wasn't.
It's also a problem to give a 24 hour ultimatum that locks someone into paying for an upfront yearly contract, when it's obvious from their emails that they could have allowed the company to choose a monthly payment option. But the monthly payment option would have allowed their client to fix the problem and CF would have lost a potential $100k sales contract, so CF chose the option that destroyed their reputation and will lead to their loss as the default CDN for the internet, losing them millions in potential sales over the next several years. 10/10 business decision. I hope they're making good profits destroying their reputation.
Also, it's still a jerk move to completely delete someone's account, even if you do have to deactivate things for legal reasons. At least give them the ability to safely migrate everything off. Deleting someone's account is the corporate version of a scorched earth policy. It's not exactly a great way to make friends and build trust.
@@alexlowe2054 yea doubling down on this is literally a warning to other companies that this could happen to you down the road with your business plan, so im sure a lot of companies are just going to start work migrating their code base to something other than cloudflare to avoid it
@@alexlowe2054 that's not just a problem, that's illegal in pretty much every modern nation and even some underindustrialized ones if I am reading this correctly.
It's wrong but it isn't a surprise. CloudFlare is the way that CloudFlare is because the CEO designed it to be that way.
Every point of contact is Sales because the CEO said it must be. Sales won't give a straight answer or reasonable deadlines because if they do, the customer will obviously just jump ship and then sales will LOSE money.
LOL, the Cloudflare Zero Trust Access 50 seats is included in the Free plan, so there's no reason for them to include it in that email
They had to make that list longer somehow!
I suspect all they needed to say is "your site is causing our IP to get blocked in certain jurisdictions, you need to either change to an enterprise plan with a dedicated IP or stop using CloudFlare"
They probably said this on a phone call tbh
Is this how the Cloudflare PR team (sales) advised them to respond? It's like theyr'e actively assuming the role of the villain.
Turns out, throwing the sales team under the bus is just a poor excuse for bad company policy.
Throwing the sales team under the bus is legitimate. They totally misunderstood the needs of his customer
@@nicejungle Not really. Sales departments are just proxies for company policy.
They exist because you don't want to have skilled, technical staff doing a job that can be done by trained monkeys. Instead of understanding what they're selling, they regurgitate company policy. If company policy is to use vague tos violations to extort customers, that is what they do.
There is a good chance that whoever was liaising with the client, in this case, didn't have the faintest idea about the product they were selling, just that doing so would align with the company's objectives.
This is evidenced in the fact that no one has been held accountable and fired.
Didnt expect to see an osu mention in here
Ppy is a great dev
didn't expect to see a puush mention either
There is no free lunch. Yes Akamai and Fastly is much more expensive but I never ever faced anything remotely close to this with them.
Yet...
Back in the day, 15y ago, when I worked on a semi-porn site, we had some issues with Akamai and some geolocations. We didn't care since those places never paid so we just blocked them, but I'm sure the IP issue is common everywhere.
Akamai is worse than Cloudflare lol
What was cloudflare supposed to do? Tell the customer “we give you a week to stop breaking tos before we shut down the service for you”? If you break TOS then you should expect to get immediately banned. In this instance customer was also financially costing cloudflare money, because their ips were getting blacklisted.
@@sleepywagie8193 They have 100's of customers breaking TOS daily. It's a veeeery common thing on the ISP world. They just have to put the offending IP's on the freezer for some time and rotate in with a new one. Is not that urgent.
And all the ones that complain get an "Enterprise plan" offer, so it's a win win.
The whole place looks like a cesspool tbh... Proper response would just be tech telling them "you're doing this and we can't support that because x, so either stop, extend your plan with feature y, or move to a plan that includes y". Then you get moved to sales and they'd try to do their best to up-sell you on "ish you don't really need", but failing that, just sell you the bare minimum you need. As it went, it just screams "we suck from the top down, we don't have your best interest or your back in mind and we'll go down whatever shady route we have to to make money". Talk about blasting your value into oblivion...
At this point itt clearly shows their MO: "If you're anywhere below the Enterprise plan, you're not worth the hassle for us."
Not just that. Our company was on the Enterprise plan for years. We were expanding our usage and needed to renegotiate our plan. During these negotiations, Cloudflare stopped responding to us. Turns out they using delay tactics until just a few weeks before our yearly plan was about to expire, when they suddenly sent us new non-negotiable terms. We saw the writing on the wall and moved to Fastly, showing Cloudflare the finger on the way out.
@@RoarMcRipHelmet Welp, I was hoping they would treat Enterprise users better since they're basically gaining them at the cost of their own reputation, but I guess not.
Why the hell would you even use a CDN to only cache HTML files? The entire idea is to put media (or .js bundles) closer to the client. AWS CloudFront has no issues with this either.
Did you know it's possible to embed data in HTML as text? Convert it to base64 and then specify the format so the browser can convert it back. Yes, audio and video work.
Teeeechincally that's still an HTML file...
Since people started using butt wipe React. You don't need a geolocation cache site when the page is 1KiB, but idiot developers today use react just to show some list of product and a shopping cart. Lol
I was considering moving our 31 domains to them. Not anymore. Thanks for this video.
Yep don't do that
as a general rule, don't have your DNS and Domain be on the same provider if you don't want to get screwed.
I have 6 domains hosted on Cloudflare Pages. They're Hono JS, Htmx, Drizzle and use the D1 db for data. They run insaaaanely fast. None are gambling sites or super busy so I'll be fine 🙂
Thanks. I'm tasking my IT Mgr to evaluate our entire configuration this week.
well ... this reminds me a bit of the unity meltdown .. people wont switch away in an instant .. but there will be a lot of soulsearching before cloudflare gets a new customer .. and now they probably put a lot more research in regarding competitors.
Its like that dude in the project group where you ask, hey how's it going with the task? And he just says its going great for 4 weeks. And then after 4 weeks it turns out he hasn't done shit.
Just please communicate and say something if you have issues.
They need a better PR team, but prob fired them
Feeling conflicted. I love Cloudflare's free tier.
use it until your startup will be big enough for them to contact you then run away.
There lot problems with cloudflare.
Continue using their free tier. It costs them money.
Evaluate options for your business and avoid vendor lock-ins like Workers and Cache Rules.
@@kaseywahlif you want to do that, please make a backup of your DNS records
Maybe it is just me, but if Cloudflare is claiming some legal violation, I'd expect at least one lawyer from Cloudflare in the meeting they demanded the customer quickly agree with to discuss it.
Damn, I was a loyal customer, investor, and huge advocate of CF before this all happened. Now I am making plans to reverse course on all of these things. Some of the scummiest corporate BS I have seen in this industry.
What about Hostinger?
Okay here is the problem I have with all this.
1. How do we know that all email communication was shared in the blog post?
2. How do we know what was said in the meetings?
3. I don't know of any company offering different tiers for their service that does'nt bundle some usesless feature in there. Google ? Microsoft? Amazon? Who?
The only thing I see suspect from cloudflare here is the pay 120K upfront part.
Did someone from sales hack into the CEO's account?
Or, he is genuinely typing those out?
It is amazing how many CEOs and executives have poor communication skills. I have no problem believing that was him.
@@username7763 The ones who are puppets aren't that bright. You need stupid people who fall prey to their fleshly desires to blackmail and place into those positions. Shutup and do as your told = money keeps flowing. Take a stand for what's right = now your crimes will be exposed. You're about to see many of them fall. Grab some popcorn!
@@username7763 it's all that cocaine ;P
Nah, Matt Prince is basically if Elon could code. That’s not a compliment.
RudeGPT
If IP banning was the only issue, why didn't they just disble the proxy feature for them instead of nuking the entire account of a paying customer?
DNS propagation could mean a 24-48hr outage to switch
@@j3k2006 Even if they had hundreds of domains/subdomains swithching to direct DNS shouldn't be more that couple of hours of hard work for a decent IT team. Definetely much less time than they had to spend after account nuke. Biggest issue for them was the fact that they bought domans themselves from Cloudflare, not just DNS/proxy services meaning there was no quick way to move out of Cloudflare even if they had everything else at the ready.
Because sales was given a button that gives them leverage to sell more
These videos will save my reputation a lot. As a creature who has been building for companies to avoid vendor lock-in, I was considering cloudflare stuff before this. Not again.
None of this is unexpected for this CEO. He has been shown to be an unsavory individual years ago during the KiwiFarms debacle and all of this is entirely in line with his behavior then.
CF free is great for home labs, CF $20 is great for building startup demos and maybe dev environments, CF £200 allows you to get your business growing. Beyond that make sure your domain is managed at a different provider and just switch to real services with real cost structures.
Amen to this. Never sign up your domain to a registrar that offers it for free. When the proverbial "5h1t hits the fan," they're going to grab quick cash via other means (usually to payback debts). Instead get with a registrar that has a payment model and is collecting cash and resources, so they won't try to rob you blind in the future just so they can pay some internal bills. I bet inflation killed their tiny little margin revenue model and they're getting close to burning red cash.
I speak from experience. I came up through the early 2000s. All types of registrars were handing out free or really cheap domain sign-up out the "ying yang." They all did a rug pull or tried a "come to jesus" moment to collect some cash when they got their fair share of turbulence. Even google tried the free domain game, and then tried to claim the domains. They tried it with me. But I didn't fall for it. This CloudFlare stuff wreaks of the same behavior. I hope not though, because they have a huge collection of domains and DNSs. You guys need to make a back up plan and if you use CloudFlare. I never used them, because I know their true value -- they can be replaced with simple firewall software and a regular registrar. If you don't have computer administration skills, then I guess you're their target customer now. Get ready for the blind rack ups.
And curse that CloudFlare CAPTCHA.
There is too much pressure as a public company to grow to the point sales have to milk every dollar they can.
CF has a crazy P/E ratio. Aggressive milking was kinda inevitable. There's only so much room for growth.
Time to push for IPv6 everywhere. Aggresively.
Okay cool but can you mentor me
Business development and sales are the same thing. Business development is either of two things: The part of sales that deals with getting new customers instead of dealing with current customers. Or it's what the sales department calls itself so they don't have to call themselves salespeople.
Yeah I was surprised someone wouldn't know that, really makes you wonder how much of the rest of this third info is getting garbled
Nope. Business Development is all about B2B joint ventures, RFPs and public contracts. It's got nothing to do with customer sales.
I think drug dealers are more upstanding citizens than sales people, atleast drug dealers don't cold call me
I hate sales people
Tbh, that earnings call fully explains why this happened. Sales teams trying to find creative ways to meet arbitrary metrics and keep their jobs.
A few months ago a CF IP got banned in Italy. CF sent emails to all affected clients to send a petition via email to some Italian authority. It only affected 1 of my sites with no audience in Italy so I didn't bother and don't really know the outcome. Surely they didn't ask me to upgrade though, still on the free plan.
Hey Theo, what alternatives can we use though. Lots of CDN options but I feel locked in between WAF, Caching, asset optimization, etc. (small hosting provider)
Fastly, ddos guard, cloudfront, etc
Ugh. We need to move to v6 asap
I give it another decade. Too many legacy systems out there. Next big obsoletion will take place at 2038 when most legacy systems will stop working due to date overflow, thus encryption will stop working. It's a good point to phase out IPv4 as well.
It's further away than you might think.... According to the internet society, there is a 48% global IPv6 adoption. I decided to rent an IPv6 server one time, because it was so cheap, then it turned out I couldn't even SSH to it at all!
Try googling "test ipv6" and you'll see whether you are even capable of connecting to an IPv6 server. You need a router that supports it, as well an ISP that will route IPv6 traffic.
So even if you choose an IPv6-only server right now, many users won't be able to visit your website.
@@rallisf1 The legacy systems can do fine with NAT64.
I run my network on my own IPv6 /48 and it was essentially painless. I recognize I'm not enterprise though so my actual strategy being limited to one site made decisions on topology fairly simplistic.
You first
CF is leaving SO much money on the table by not breaking out all of these individual services into a la carte services you can pay for individually. I can guarantee almost nobody that their sales team is shaking down will actually upgrade to enterprise and pay $120k/yr up front the way they're demanding, but they most certainly would pay an extra $200/month just for BYOIP as a service.
Even at 250k subs, this channel is crazy under rated. You always take a fair and intelligent approach, and you're very in tune with how your audience feels about topics like this. I always enjoy your analysis of current news topics.
🫡
Thank you for posting this.
I am right now writing an article about Risk Management that is supported by all this drama.
Having this feedback from CF, and specially your intervention in such soap opera makes this subject so much interesting :D
This (IP banning/blacklisting) is one major issue for cloud providers, as they are easily used by malicious actors for malware and botnet's and I haven't seen the providers taking any measures to tackle it. At my job some google user content IP's don't work, and that affects Gmail and google drive, and there is no contact point to solve the issue.
As I think has been clear from very early on in this fiasco, it's entirely down to awful comms from Cloudflare, and having the Sales team as the only interface with customers when there's an issue like this is ridiculous, and surely they must do something about it going forward?
So basically it's cloudflare's fault, but it's your issue unless you pay them a ransom.
Great...
Nice web site that you have there. Would be a shame if something happened to it ...
Everybody is crying about Cloudflare but nobody wants to inform people what better alternatives there are (as to my question on previous video... )
Sure I could use Google for that but those are usually marketting opinions (googles shitty advertise algo) that's why I rather ask in a YT comment section and see what real people have in mind.
B.T.W. I dont do reddit or quora either
A suggestion for alternatives depends on a lot of very specific technical details of your usage. Google cloud armor, Azure front door, Amazon cloudfront, Fastly, Akamai…
So why not tell us the alternatives
@@mathmark1770 yea that's what I'm ASKING for again as I did in previous video.. nobody seems to know any alternatives. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well you can see from the above comments- Fastly is much better
Unless you already have a giant company there are no alternatives
Even as a tech startup with 10mil in funding all the alternatives are worse
CF becomes bad once you get pretty bad
Maybe they just don't have the budget for a real sales team considering they give every free account unlimited CDN bandwidth so they can MITM https for the NSA and CIA.
Serious question, what's the alternative to CloudFlare?
Has Cloudflare merged with McDonnell-Douglas ?
FYI, the non-HTML cache rule was removed from their ToS, which was part of community backlash. Tweet makes since as it was posted in 2020
Ok so if Russia blocks cloudfla re ip address then they are blocked in Russia cloudflare can't just not provide the service they have been paid for
I have a question before onboarding Business Development team contacts and says YES to every requirement you have, later transfer to SALES Team to start with the initial setup? However, both are in a same bucket with information and knowledge gap.
If your question made any sense, what would it say?
@@erintyres3609 It made complete sense, if you ever worked at SAAS Org. and may notice the knowledge gap between both teams where the later knows what is possible and what not.
I wonder how you would feel about how Bloomberg can just ban excel addin for a month stating you’re not having fair use, and when you ask what you did wrong they just don’t say it
Just to be clear im talking about professional terminal being paid more than 2k usd / month
You mean the trading terminal? That's fucked lol
Hey theo did you know that people that only want dark mode cant get it on uploadThing? Oh what its fine for you to lock feature behind specific grouped paywalls but not others ?
Some non-biz people may not know that "business development" is little more than another name for sales in some companies. I think it's better if it covers strategic partnerships, mergers and acquisitions rather than business-as-usual product sales, but I've also noticed it's often just aspirational naming of traditional sales operations.
If I would want to ditch Cloudflare from my production projects, what alternatives should I consider? Looking at DNS, but also the Edge.
I hate Cloudflare so much it's unreal.
Should I stop using the cloudflare extention on my browser?
For sure.
There is a Cloudflare extension? What does it do?
Cloudfare thinks they are in fashion industry, like Balenciaga, Nike. There was a plain white shirt, with just a lacoste logo on it, priced at like 600USD.
Yes there is no fixing the sales team. The fact that this could even happen, then leadership hears about it and doesn’t make it right is enough to know not to work with them.
about the ip stuff, networkchuck made a series of videos that explain subneting, and talks about the amout of ips and it's classes. really good stuff
The enshittification of cloudflare?????
We had the same issue with CloudFlare ip bans in Russia
please tell me I'm not the only one whose initial reaction to "nvm" at 5:50 was "huh? node version manager?"
This should be enough for every single person using cloudflare to uproot and move ASAP. Anyone who doesn't, I have no idea what's going through their heads.
0:43 Why the cricket sound? I died!
@11:39 this is why i love upcloud and the way they make billing transparent / clear.
ppy all of the sudden showing up whoa
... yeah idk how cloudflare id saving themselves here
Corporate BS like this has two possible outcomes: either they get their act together and behave like adults or it will hurt their reputation, in turn their bottom line and then if they continue they will go out of business due to lack of revenue due to bad reputation
I get a feeling that the IP ban excuse was an afterthought. Perhaps they read some reddit posts and comments on CZcams videos and got the idea from what people posted about the issue.
I literally switched from Next On CF Pages, to SST in a night over this
This is about what I thought was going on. This is a case of the engineering team explaining the limitations internally. Meanwhile, the product and sales team sell something that Engineering can't support. This happens at so many companies. Often times, the sales and product teams don't get much blame or correction. It's the support and engineering teams that get hit with the customer complaints and making their current setup do what they don't feel confortable supporting.
Here's the upshot: If sales people are being obnoxiously aggressive: 1) realize that they're just doing a highly stressful job the best they can; 2) complain to sales management, tell them what you find offensive, and ask for a new salesperson, who will work with you in a manner more attuned to your sensibilities. Theo got it right in saying the unlimited usage business model for a fixed price is the real culprit - it may eventually blow up in someone's face. Lesson learned is always have an alternative architecture ready to go if providers of your current architecture become untenable for whatever reason.
Was the company told that they were breaking Cloudflares TOS and why? I have a hard time believing that they were not told
That bit about Enterprise having 50 seats for Zero Trust is a bit insulting bit of sales communication. That's the Zero Trust free tier. They sold it as an Enterprise benefit, but everyone gets that.
It's too bad there isn't more competition in the space of budget and free CDN services
The problem is, CF has set the price for "budget" at "free", because they make money using exploitive tactics like this to take advantage of their customers once they've locked them into the platform. There are competitive options out there, but they don't offer the same "free and unlimited" plan CF lies about, since it's never economically possible to provide unlimited service without charging customers.
Sensible companies have a "free but limited" tier, and a "here's what our product costs" tier. Cloudflare, meanwhile, has a "this is a bold lie" tier and a "we don't publish prices so we can milk you" tier, with the threat of killing your company as an incentive to force you to the higher tier. The first lie makes them look far better than their competition, even though they never intend to offer a more cost effective service.
That guy think he's a CEO with that behavior? He needs to apologize or resign. He's not doing the company good rn.
There is a lot to love in Cloudflare, and I tried to use to do all my Frontend Infra. I made the difficult decision to go back to my previous Stack (Vercel + Supabase) because the DX is better there, and this recent story didn't help build trust. I'm mad though, and hope they'll improve, they have the tech to be the best in the business.
"We have investigated ourselves and found that we did nothing wrong".
and Institutions that were on the dawn of the internet have a large chunk of real IPs. My university has an /16 of real IPs but by Brazilian law we cannot rent those IPs which by itself could help fund the university instead of letting the buildings fall apart.
There was this distopia book by Jasper Fforde where zip codes were one of the most valuable and sought-after commodity. I guess we're heading there with IP4 addresses
This issue wouldn't have been an issue if Cloudflare just once actually tried to discuss the issue with their customer instead of trying to passive aggressively force them into their business plan, without actually knowing the full situation (totally not to forcefully make people give them lots of money). And imagine trying to spin it as them being the good guy! Unbelievable.
Dang is that an osu! mention?
Yep, this confirms for me at least. Been having that page of and with cloudfare logo sorry but page couldn't load cause ip didn't exist or whatever. I change my DNS servers.
Look into Gartner (I think) report about CISO's quitting. It was months ago though, old news already. 40% or something expected to be gone.
People are breaking. Security has been failing. Was there pressure ? perhaps. How about those ~ 4 million Cyber professionals needed. How many are filled ?
Cloudflare CEO doesn't give a damn about the opinions of techies. He cares about the opinions of shareholders.
A lot of hosting companies give you free BGP mixin or for a small one-time setup fee of less than $100. We need a company to get parity with cloudflare features. Letting sales run the company will fail in the long run.
At the end of the day it's not their sales team that's the problem; it's the sales team leadership that's the issue.
I'm here for the drama
Good alternative to cloudflare?
They weren't told it was the IP [...]
Were you in the call?
Why is it that Digital Ocean will give me a public IP for like $3/month then?
As a support engineer from a different large enterprise, sales and consulting regularly puts us in scenarios very similar to this by running their mouths and not knowing the *real* details of the service or limitations.
If sales teams were knowing the products they sell, they would go as engineers not hawkers
The CEO has just admitted his sales team is incompetent. Well that's yesterday news
I do wonder if this CEO has undiagnosed adhd, i used to be quite a serious accidental jerk in the way this ceo is until i got diagnosed... the problem for the modern CEO is that being a complete jerk without consequences is societal entitlement they have.... so its unlike anyone is informing him of what a jerk his being.
We assume here that casino guy showed us everything. Perhaps he only highlighted the aspects that portrayed their company positively and cloudflare negatively. Maybe they know why they are getting problems, but pretend like they don't.
Eh cf would have jumped on that. The emails we have seen are bad even if they sent others.
@@actually_it_is_rocket_sciencethere's no upside to releasing customer communication without their permission in a case like this
I enjoy your rants :D
I agree with you Theo!
Very confusing when the president of the company says things like "private IP addresses".... that makes no sense.
Cloudfare CEO is just doing his job -- optimizing short-term shareholder value. The sales team is unethically aggressive because they have no other options. Shareholders want to see subscriptions and big bucks revenue for the next quarter. The shitification we see is just a bi-product of that. I'd argue the shitification we see in most products, services and business over the past decade is just a bi-product of short-term shareholder value optimization.
welcome to capitalism
Have a sales team. Give them a revenue KPI and have no oversight (that costs money) or compliance/complaints that are properly enforced. This will always be the result. If you “derisk” sales by paying them mainly based on performance (or kicking them out based on it) you select for people who will trade anything (like your legal compliance and your brand value) to keep their job. I know CF has never made a profit (free shrimp?) and has an insane valuation, but jesus guys, come on.
I still don't quite understand the problem with addresses. Sure, IPv4 is a limited resource, but e.g. Linode will offer you a server with its own IPv4 address for $5/mo, of which address itself costs probably about $1/mo. Why Cloudflare cannot include a separate address in $250/mo package? Are they just greedy or is there a deeper technical explanation about how CDNs work?
They should just make the BYOIP an add on feature for all tiers that is paid for separately. Problem fixed...
Yes they need the enterprise plan.
For BYOIP.
If they want to get IPs banned that's on them.
They were getting shared IPs banned.
Crappy sysop at the Casino or Management forcing them to run on the $200 plan is to blame. (along with whatever they were doing to get IP banned of-course.)
1:28 well, that at least makes more sense. But an /24 IPv4 block is more like US $10 000 ones... not 120 000 per year or 10 000 per month. My guess is, the other costs are all part of the regular bigger plan. EDIT: so they just don't have any simpler plan in between... great.
3:22 we are at 50% and will be at almost 100% in roughly 10 years.