Tears of the Kingdom FINALLY has a TIMELINE Placement (Sort of)
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2023
- Hallo allemaal!
Let's talk about that Zelda timeline, shall we?
Source (Famitsu Interview):
www.famitsu.com/news/202309/0...
Specials thanks to:
You!
#tearsofthekingdom #zeldatearsofthekingdom #zelda #breathofthewild - Hry
Hope you all had a great weekend!
Mk😊
First
Awesome video
Ok
how could we not with this great video to end it with?
They could’ve made everything way less confusing if Rauru or Mineru had a throwaway line in the memories like “legends say an ancient kingdom existed in this land in ages long past” or something like that. With Sonia talking about recall and the memories of objects she could’ve talked about “perhaps the land itself has a memory” or something
Yep, that's Nintendo for ya . They could've expanded on it through DLC but... unfortunately it seems they won't be releasing any for TotK. Here's hoping they release another book like Creating a Champion.
@@MonsterMaze My guess is Aonuma and co. wanted to keep ambiguity by giving as little context to what Rauru and Sonia said in order to encourage discussion and theorizing within the fandom just as Aonuma said he wished back when Breath of the Wild came out. That only now Fujibayashi would made a statement about the timeline might be a result of sheer pressure from fans who kept demanding for a straight answer regarding the Era of the Wild's placement in the timeline.
@@MonsterMazeI bet they port it to switch 2 in 2025 and then release DLC.
Rauru had a throwaway line in English "At least the last time I checked." Cheeky, but throwaway and vague nontheless.
My guess is that Rauru and Sonia heard the legends of the Kingdom of Hyrule and not knowing if it was real or not, they decided to make it real.
It's so weird in botw Ruto and Nabooru are remembered by name by their people, yet Rauru is completely unaware of another Hyrule that existed before his Hyrule.
maybe it is Because the Zonai were not there from the beginning, it is said after all that the Zonai were kind off direct Descendants of the Gods, a race of minor Deities that is way closer to the Gods than any other race before Because... Yeah, they are Direct Descendants of them.
And as they saw the world it is probably more likely that they only knew about the world, yet not about the Land of Hyrule, and as they saw the world all they could see was chaos and monsters Roaming around, this is at least my explaination for why this is the case
@@Chris-gx1eigood point
One can easily imply that BotW's versions of Ruto and Nabooru were actually the names of two of the four sages that faced Ganondorf in the past in TotK. Just as Rauru shares a name with a past Zelda character, so too can they.
@@sylinmino
The thing is that the Legends of the Zora also tell of a Hylian Princess and A Hero fighting alongside Ruto against that Whicked man.
I am pretty sure eventhough Zelda was a Princess that Rauru and Sonja wouldnt want to confuse the Past Hylians with Zelda being a princess Because Sonja was simply a priestress, she isnt royal in any way and Rauru as the first King is basically the one who started this new Royal Bloodline in the first place.
Claiming Zelda to be a Princess of this land or of another is rather more irritating, I guess That's why they just called her a distant relative
And yeah, you might She Rauru as some form of hero, but the thing is why would they only call him the Hero who saved the land while the Inscryptions in Hyrule Castle and in the tunnels beneath clarify that it was the first King of their land who fought against the Demon King?
@@Chris-gx1ei Ever since BotW, I've been arguing about how stupid it is, that Hyrule is still this underdeveloped country, when 10000 years ago, one of their races could build Sci-Fi levels of technology.
The entire Shiekah banishment BS aside, there's no excuse, why Hylians in that time period didn't learn how to build similar technology for common use, like teleporters, magnetic grapple arms, mechanic saws, hover plattforms for construction works, etc. and now in TotK, the Zonai, *a race dating even further in the past,* had similar levels of technology and where in contact with the Hylians.
Inconsistencies like these may always have been there, like in SS with the ancient robots, in MC with the Wind Tribe, in WW with the Tower of the Gods, in TP with the Oocca - It's all to create these oddities of having futuristic technology inside a mediaval-fantasy setting and give a sense of awe. But the way, there implemented most of the time feels weird, because "Why wouldn't this technology be common, if it exists already?" and the devs go for the old "It's ancient, forgotten technology", that makes the least sense in BotW & TotK.
At least Spirit Tracks acknowleged, that the central technology gimmick of the game, was something common for Hyrule of that era. And how come Spirit Tracks, a game in the possible past of BotW, has working cole/steam trains and BotW, not even the remains of railroad system?
I speculated this since the start. History not bring removed, just repeated. Like Demise said in Skyward Sword, Hyrule is doomed to wander a blood-soaked sea of darkness for all time.
On that note, I have a theory: That the Zonai are descendants of humans who remained on Skyloft. The Lanayru promenade and forgotten temple have Loftwing carvings, so it would nake sense.
Peculiar shapes for the denizens of Skyloft if that is the case. Then again the Oocca look like tiny little chicken aliena with tiny wings who supposedly _created_ the Land of Hyrule and eventually the technologically advance City in the Sky in which they live in. Evolution sure is a weird thing in the Zelda universe.
@@javiervasquez625I’m still not convinced evolution is even the correct term in English for what’s going on
@@Dyundu I'm sure it's not, it's brain-blisteringly stupid to keep dragging up Darwinism when it doesn't even remotely apply here, but people are just being neo-pagan religious about it and HAVE to cling to it as some shred of "sensible" theory. Although, to add, evolution SIMPLY means development and predates Charles Darwin's version of the word.
It sounds almost like door-to-door mormons when people have to quip about it, just instead of "wow, it's amazing all this lore fits into the 6000 years between God creating the Earth and the Rapture".
I’ve been thinking about how since Zelda is a descendant of Sonia and Rauru, the bloodline of the goddess had to have become zonai at some point for rauru to have light and sealing power passed down to zelda. It makes sense that the skyword sword zelda would have descendants who stayed in sky loft as well as those who went down to rule hyrule.
if only skyloft was actually in the game and we could find out
I saw many people saying that TotK messed up with the existing timelines, but after I finished the game my guess was that everything that happened when Zelda traveled back in time happened thousands of years after any previous game (save for BotW), so when Rauru says they founded Hyrule it's just BotW/TotK Hyrule and the Ganondorf they fought during the Imprisioning War is a new reincarnation. Good to know they kinda confirmed it.
You were already on the right track it seems! I honestly started believing in the reboot theory at some point.
Idk man, the constructs and the mining operations are far too similar to Skyward Sword
That does not explain finding objects from all timelines. They are clearly legends and myths in this brand new narrative
@@estebandemosandmusicconcep4407 ah a sane person!
Im very relieved that is not just a big retcon and that all the ambiguity is on purpose for us to fill with our imagination, I really didn’t liked theories like “Maybe the three goddesses were just Zonai that seemed like goddesses and became the dragons”, and stuff like that.
Or ones that say that the other games never really happened, they're just legends that have been warped over time, like how is that satisfying to some people... still better then when people are super willing to accept Majora's Mask being a dream though, I guess...
I'm also glad that it's not a retcon. But I also like the idea of the goddesses being zonai who became the dragons. Because it would have made the storytelling deeper in a sense. Because one could imagine something like that happening. That people started to tell tales about the three zonai who became dragons without understanding how. And when people don't understand something, they come up with gods and myths 🤷♀️
It would work if we didn't actually experience that history with our own eyes ..
Reboot Timeline, but its still connected to the OG because Skyward Sword has a Split. Its the Fujibayashi timeline. We can use the old timeline to answer the new one. They all happened. They are all canon.
@@brinkiTOgo yeah a retcon of the entire LoZ franchise up until BotW would've felt like a huge slap to the face of so many of us who grew up with the series. I personally subscribe to the Hylia as a Zonai concept though, probably bc of the TotK reveal of Sonia making me think we were meeting Hylia lol. But that would make more sense to me, bc Hylia birthed the Skyloftians and I could easily see them becoming the Zonai if they remained separated from the surface for long enough
This is literally the headcanon theory I've held since TotK was released and actually came up with it myself before i started watching TotK content. Rauru's Hyrule is a DIFFERENT Hyrule than the ones from SS, OoT, WW. Etc. Since it was said in BotW that the older games took place so many thousands of years ago that the old histories have fallen into myth.
It just follows a similar pattern that the others do because it is fate and destiny for Hyrule to stand against Ganon.
Agreed. I had the same conclusion after finishing the game. Good to know it's kinda confirmed now.
Where did it say in BotW that older games happened in the past?
old hyrule is underground, in the depths. the koroks in ww had a ceremony every year to plant deku tree seeds all around hyrule in hopes to make more land, and the result is current hyrule.
The 5th memory in totk is too similar to OoT for me to accept that this is It’s own completely separate newly founded hyrule far removed from everything else. and Rauru is too on the nose for a name of the king, and to name drop the imprisoning war. It feels fitting to consider it a recontextualizing of the events leading to the downfall timeline so that that entire branch isn’t just “OoT link loses”
I’m not saying they can’t run out of ideas and start reusing names for separate events, but we’ve not seen them do that before, so why start now?
@@VikTimmyI will admit that reusing the "imprisoning war" term is a head-scratcher.
One theory I heard really works and it's what I personally believe is the case. Basically, as you said, the kingdom of Hyrule was destroyed and the Zonai came down to help. Rauru was put in place as king of this newly formed Hyrule. This all takes place after the previous games but thousands of years before BotW. When Zelda is sent back in time she is actually sent back to this period, not the era is skyward sword so in effect, Rauru is indeed the first king of Hyrule, just this one. This also explains why Ganondorf exists, he is not the first one and story's of the OoT version have been lost to time.
You literally just repeated the semi-confirmed theory by Nintendo.
you just repeated the inconclusive ass video we all already just watched
Ohhh thank you for that! I was getting all confused thinking this was the first Ganondorf and that's why he's so strong and has no triforce and started to think how has his body been under their during all of the other games. I wasunder the impression that the memories of totk took place just after skyward sword
This felt obvious to me. When you mention over 10,000 years, it's very likely history was lost and restarted a few times. The reboot theories felt hamfisted.
It’s not like the timeline doesn’t matter, developers feel like we can have it all
And I love the idea of hyrule being a larger universe than mushroom kingdom or the planets from Pikmin
That’s why Zelda is a legend
Exactly. Everyone can enjoy Zelda in a different way. Whether you're a casual gamer, lore fanatic or speedrunner. There's something for everyone ^^
The timeline doesn't matter. There's no "lore". It isn't as though an author spent years intentionally building out a rich mythological history that links the games together with some tidy in-universe narrative explanation.
The stuff that goes on in a Zelda game is about the game mechanics. It's just some people making different games with the same archetypes, names, and symbols.
Efforts to make sense of the similarities and differences have nothing to do with the creative intent of the authors, nor with the content of the games themselves.
@@TheSingularitarian That is objectively false. If the conditions for the existence and/or validity of "lore" was purely based on the intent of the original author/artist, then many iconic things from pop-culture would've never seen the light of day.
People agree that most of Five Nights at Freddy's lore was shaped by theorists like MatPat. I highly doubt that when Scott Cawthon made the original FNAF, he pictured a grand mythology. Yet here we are, 8 games and 5 spinoffs later, and even a movie underway.
Lore is not always established by the original creator alone. It depends on the work in question. Most creators are not Tolkien.
There's a plethora of examples of IP's which were influenced or even expanded upon by fan theories, fan fction, adaptations and other kinds of input from the community that surrounds it.
I think it's safe to say that if fans never became invested in the lore and chronology of the Zelda universe, then books like Hyrule Historia, Encyclopedia, etc, would have never been made. There would be no financial incentive on the side of Nintendo.
We as a community made that happen. By continuing to speculate, discuss, and pry Nintendo for answers, we helped to bring the official timeline into existence. Which is a beautiful thing if you ask me, and one of the reasons why I respect the Zelda community so damn much. They never give up, even after decades of arguments similar to yours.
@@MonsterMazelike you said. Fans brought it about and I’m glad for those that did. I personally always preferred each game as its own standalone world and retelling of the legend. It’s fun to watch the vids and theories but I take none of it as canon for myself. Always seemed forced. But that’s me. Not everyone.
@@enzog1078 That's totally fair ^^
There's been a few good theories how Rauru and Sonia couldn't be the first, and we get all the classic hero outfits from the other timelines in TOTK so unless they truly meant them as an obvious easter egg with no real connection to other games then all of those had to happen prior to BOTW/TOTK because we can obtain them. I'm glad they pretty much confirmed the "it's kind of connected but it's so far in the future that it doesn't matter" theory because it pretty much satisfies everyone
I agree, they were not the first just this era of hyrules first. Its really simple and i dont get why people are getting so confused by it.
@@nathandeleau5100it was because the game didn't state that it just says rauru was the first king of hyrule and even tho there's tons of evidence from all games that prove it otherwise most jumped on board with it it's similar to the fact there's 2 imprisoning wars but once the game named dropped imprisoning war every theorist jumped on it takes place in the downfall timeline the reason they called it the imprisoning war and not the imprisoning war 2 is because most records were lost between the old kingdoms collapse and rebirth otherwise rauru would know to not trust Ganondorf as he's been born and reincarnated atlease once if it's the all timelines merge into 1 the first he was born before oot and reincarnated sometime before 4sa plus who knows how long after 4sa zelda 2 and st the timelines merged he could've reincarnated again except in the adult he was sealed and turned to stone. He may have died or just turned to stone while the mastersword is in his head.
Yeah me and my wife at first also thought the same thing but it didn’t take too long to figure it out. Theres just too much evidence pointing that this is this eras first king and queen 🙂
I still think that Rauru and Sonia are the first My timeline would be:
Skyward Sword
Founding of Hyrule/Dragon tear memory
(because I think Sonia must be a descendant of the first Zelda aka Hylia, thats why she has time powers)
Normal timeline
Breath of the wild
Tears of the kingdom
Thats why the items exist, because YES TotK plays way after the other games, but the dragon tear memories play after Skyward Sword
Well your definitely entitled to your opinion but theres too much evidence that this is not the very first Hyrule. I have an open mind but until theres more evidence to prove that this era is the first I’m convinced its just this eras first Hyrule. Because also they said that this Hyrule takes place waaaaaaaaaaay in the future of whatever timeline it falls in. And its very possible that over that time period hyrule went back to just having towns without having a castle and king and queen. They likely still worshiped Hylia and carried on certain traditions but until Rauru came they didn’t have a royal family anymore.
This is basically exactly what I thought, that BOTW's super far into the future thing means that old records are sparse, but also that the old Hyrule Kingdom fell entirely into ruin, which means Rauru would essentially be creating a new kingdom from scratch. After all it wouldn't be right to call a kingdom built from the ashes of a prior one the same kingdom. So Rauru can legitimately call himself the founder of the king of Hyrule. Folks may not even be entirely sure that there was an older kingdom of Hyrule, or at least they would consider the one of the old timeline mythical, as in its existence is subject to skepticism, perhaps even by Rauru himself, maybe naming his kingdom after one in the myths.
Yeah, but Zelda the historian, of ALL people, never makes reference to ruined kingdoms or refoundings. Rauru's time is constantly referred to as the era of Hyrule's founding, by, once again, the historian.
@@bowenorcutt78 Like I said, the old games are said to be in like an era of myth because of how far back in time they are and the falling of the kingdom would have resulted in a ceasing of historical record. To refer to Rauru’s time as the era of Hyrule Kingdom’s founding is accurate, because it is that same kingdom he created that persists to present day. That is THE kingdom of Hyrule that they know and Rauru is that kingdom’s first king. Maybe they did once speak about the old mythical Hyrule Kingdom, but that doesn’t matter to the story, the game isn’t obligated to address it, nor would that be what’s on Zelda’s mind after what just happened to her and Link.
@The_Story_Of_Us Eh. It's just something that bugs me personally, bit of an amateur history buff myself. Far as I can tell, the closest real-world equivalent to this situation is Israel. What is and isn't relevant to that is that I personally support Adult Timeline placement, for more or less the same reasons you give. We're talking about a vast abyss of time here, and I think setting this long after the Great Flood helps put a sense of perspective on said abyss.
@@bowenorcutt78 well adult timeline placement isn’t strictly speaking meaningful, as while the great sea is referenced for example, so are most other Zelda games. The idea of the far far future is that BOTW is so unfathomably far into the future that it takes place at the end of EVERY timeline, to the point where so much time passes that some variation of each different game in the three branches happened in each timeline and the distinctions between them become virtually meaningless due to the muddying of history through lost record keeping and loss of knowledge, at which point it may be considered one unified timeline. As if the split timeline in Ocarina corrected itself over the ages.
So in this unified timeline, the whole legend stuff makes more sense. Each game is a myth. It’s a story. Did the ”real” events play out exactly as depicted? Who knows? Any discrepancies and inconsistencies may be explained away by that story being slightly inaccurate.
@The_Story_Of_Us I actually have an answer for the references! Two, actually. First is simply that the other timelines exist as works of fiction. The other, related to that, is that some Sheikah Monks and/or regular Hylian sages just had visions of the other timelines and then wrote down what they saw. As for Adult Timeline justification, well the story behind Vah Ruta's namesake clearly has great significance to the Zora. More than you'd expect if it was just some story they picked up. It seems safe to assume the same would apply for the other races, like the Rito. Although ultimately that's just reasoning behind my personal preference, and there's plenty of other reasons besides. I agree with Monster Maze that the vagueness in the timeline is good because it leaves room for speculation.
This was my theory from the beginning. Events that would happen again (ganondorf, imprisoning war), are completely different after hyrule was refounded. Glad it doesn’t retcon
It's all a never ending cycle staged either by the Demon Tribe's curse, the Golden Goddesses themselves or even the Triforce as part of some "grand design" where events must repeat themselves for all eternity.
History repeating itself in a cyclical nature is also a common theme within Buddhism, and that tracks with a lot of the elements Fujibayashi adds in his games.
@@javiervasquez625 I just had an idea. What if this takes place in the adult timeline, and the raurus ancestors came down and used their stones to drain the water👀
@@kolbycheeze7607 Lol that wouldn't make sense with how the secret stones work (they _enhance_ your natural power). Unless the person using the stone has natural "water drying" powers it wouldn't be possible for the stone itself to dry a large ocean.
the thing I want them to NOT put in the back seat is the big stuff. OR at least vague writing that circles certain topics more. They put a lot of reference power into Skyward with these past two games, but they're follow-through just doesnt seem to match the immensity of the setup. The 3 goddesses, and Hylia's presence as Zelda don't get highlighted enough....as reincarnations that seem to awaken on some level, and now a race seemingly in even greater congress with "the gods"....no one seems to know much. Skyward Sword was big story wise, and when Zelda began to recall her divinity, she could postulate on what the creator gods intended for the world. Now, I get we already got that, but...lets maybe have that writing return. To say nothing of the Triforce and the Sacred Realm....seemingly the foundation of the world...never really getting any focus since the old days. They can still make it this forgotten ancient thing, but the pieces of it should get a refresher from time to time. Hell wouldn't it be something if Link or somebody could actually commune with somebody up there, since this insane cycle and history has been raging and seemingly weakening the forces at play for so long. The Triforce neednt be obtained or even appear directly in a given Zelda, but if it isn't some tangent quest like Majora, or the Oracles, or New Hyrule...but in fact is steeped in the same lore as core games like LttP, Ocarina and Skyward.....ya gotta address it somewhere.
This opens up so many possibilities for theories. Perhaps the absense of the Triforce might be connected to the potential destruction of the original Hyrule in some way.
I think so too especially considering the current whereabouts of the Triforce being _inside_ Zelda's body. My guess is that the next big Zelda game will tackle this question as it fully addresses all of the questions left at the end of Tears of the Kingdom regarding the Zonai, the Depths, the Ancient Hero, etc. before moving onto newer storylines and events. Here's to hoping we won't have to wait soon for the next game in the series.
@@javiervasquez625 In the staff credits, we get an image of Zelda holding the Master Sword, without the glowing lights. You can clearly see the whole Triforce on her right hand (it's much harder to see in-game, however). You're right, she does possess it ever since BotW.
@@UltimateTobi How did I not see this??? Yr a lifesaver
Something to note I think is in the ever-important line from Demise in SS, he states that the soul of the hero and descendants of the goddess will "wander a blood soaked sea of darkness *for all time*" (emphasis mine)
If Hyrule falls and stays fallen, how will there be another hero and goddess descendent? Maybe Hyrule itself is bound to the same cycle of resurrection that its saviors and enemies are
True true
Very ironic when you think about it as that suggests the "Demon Tribe" isn't seeking the permanent conquest over the Zelda world but simply to continuosly destroy it over and over again endlessly with no cease to the cycle. This further delves into the idea that the Demon Tribe's true objective is the spread of _Chaos_ rather than permanent victory of Evil over Good in the world.
@@javiervasquez625 Yeah the Demon Tribe seems like the embodiment of chaos and destruction. A counter-balance to the light, which is focussed on creation.
I've always had the same thoughts about TotK's timeline placement. It is all takes place at the end of the timeline after a cataclysm that destroyed Hyrule. This might be a soft reboot for the Zelda series, but I'm ok with that. Now, every new Zelda game will just take place after TotK. I think the Zelda team will probably be more careful about time travel though in the future.
That is if they don't decide to backtrack back to the Era of Myth to deliver "Four Swords 4" or "Twilight Princess 2" to fans of the older games wishing to see sequels to those storylines. As long as there's demand for it Nintendo might always consider returning to those old games for fans's nostalgia's sake making me worried the timeline will only continue to become more convoluted as they keep jumping across Eras spanning the _entire_ timeline.
hyrule warriors explains the convergence
Idk about every game taking place afterwards, I think part of the point of putting it all so far into the future is so that they can always backtrack if they want to elaborate on parts of the original timeline without having to feel like it affect BotW and up. Kind of a "Let's do something new, but leave the possibility of going back as an option"
I'd rather the new games take place in the old timeline or on or before the calamity depicted 10k years before botw because unless something happens hyrule is just gonna get to futuristic its not gonna be a midevil fantasy game its gonna end up to similar to the ff gamed and that will lose its charm unless hyrule gets attacked again and the tech turns on them like the guardians so they decided not to go to into tech all it will be is everyone riding motorcycles I hated the mastercycle.
motorcycles. Swords 4 odd I don't recall 4 swords 3 happening.
I figured that the old Hyrule must’ve been destroyed before Rauru by the mere existence of the depths. That was old Hyrule.
That would make a lot of sense considering most of the items from different games are found in the dephts
But there are so many landmarks on the surface specifically from Old Hyrule. Like how the great plateau matches up with the full ocarina of Time map. Arbiter's Grounds. Ranch Ruins. Etc
@@CZsWorld hey CZ, love you man. I know we’re like creating a story where there is none, to me, I figured it was old Hyrule by the mere existence of it being underground, being covered by another landmass. Hylia brought down the landmass however millennial ago lol. I’s a reason why we can’t venture outside of the depths… maybe that’s all there is to it?
Having Fujibayashi himself come out and suggest this makes me feel vindicated after having so many people argue that the line “the first king of Hyrule” completely ruled out this possibility.
It's the theory I've had since beating the game, it just made the most sense to me. Glad to see it at least being validated.
This was exactly what I’ve always thought since the game released. It would make no sense for the era of Rauru to be actually at the beginning of the timeline right after Skyward Sword
Its entirely possible and likely that the convergence itself was the cataclysm that ended the old kingdom(s). I'd bet everything being melded together is why the environments don't line up right to any previous iterations final layout, some parts will match but others vastly contradict.
Fingers crossed we get a prequel game about that.
I, for one, am somewhat relieved that the developers have taken this approach. The whole Zonai story is just obnoxious to me so I much prefer to see the events of TOTK set firmly in the far "future" compared to the OG timeline.
Same here
Why obnoxious?
@@serfsan Probably becuase Rauru and Mineru are both the only Zonai we see and not even the only ones to come down to Hyrule at some point. We honestly got more questions than answers about the Zonai race from this game so they're a bit of a headache to work into the lore, much like the robots from Skyward Sword who are just super ambiguous in their origins and original use.
We can blame the CZcamsrs for making Nintendo think fans needed so much zonai information that they decided to completely destroy the continuity and lore of the entire franchise. It’s clear this was never the intent by nintendo to make the zonai anymore relevant to the franchise than what they were in botw. They were literally a throw away developers tool to explain away “ancient ruins” in botw. They left them a mystery so they didn’t have to spend any time explaining anything about them. Then comes CZcamsrs making ridiculous theories. Now we have this ridiculous zonai story that that’s more of a headache than anything. Just hearing or seeing the word zonai makes me cringe because that’s all we heard video after video for years.
@@_itsmunahyou know prior to the announcement of Tears being in development Zonai videos weren’t being made and the ones that had had very little views under 70k. All the massive zonai videos came out after the teaser from 2019 in like 2020. Also what would you speculate the weird glowy hand and magic stuff to be? It would need to be a new unheard of tribe or the zonai as it didn’t fit anything else in Botw or prior games. Either way you would have confusing magic people who sealed the original Ganondorf. It would have been confusing no matter what because that’s how they wrote it. It’s like the Wind tribe in Minish or the Twili people in Twilight. They are created just for one game and have all this strange power and lore that doesn’t get used again besides for references and theories.
I'm SO glad you decided to weigh in on this, because the way I view the timeline aligns so well with the way you view it.
It's become very obvious to me from dev interviews that the reason the lore sometimes seems to contradicts itself is because the devs like it when fans make theories, and they intentionally bate us to do so.
It's all for the sake of popularity and discussion which only increases the _relevance_ which the franchise/intellectual property has within the gaming community and the world at large. It only makes sense that Nintendo would try to keep things as ambiguous as possible (until cornered that is) to ensure the Zelda brand will always remain relevant within the minds of the many willing to pay money inmerse themselves in it's world, characters and yada-yada.
I imagine there are discussions like "But doesn't that conflict with what we've established in previous games?" "Let the fan theorists figure it out, I personally just like this direction we settled on."
I hope we get the most out of this great production you have in mind, let's give it up for the merch and the new developments we have in our way! I can't get enough from your work
honestly when i read his statement my love for totk was kinda reignited the whole discussion in the community for totks past being before oot made somany issues like the castle situation or the existence of two ganondorf at the same time. i was also on the idea that at some point ganon won and the kingdom destroyed. it also makes the design of ganondorf with ancient gerudo features a good decision. i am just glad that the idea of a reboot is no longer a thing
It also fits with Creating A Champaign's mention that no Gerudo male is recorded as becoming King after the one that became the Calamity.
Don, Aside from this clearing up an absolute tonne in terms of timeline, and tbh this comes as no surprise and how I personally viewed TOTK anyway - a retcon would have been a disappointing outcome for this game and series, I just wanted to point out that the production on this video is absolutely amazing, the editing is really well done. It looks super crisp, so well done.
Thanks! It was meant to be a super lazy video, since I only started working on it last thursday. But I guess I can't help myself 😅
@@MonsterMaze It looks great, honestly. Some good work there, you use some very clever effects that I really like. Thats a quick turn around for something this quality!
This has been what I've thought since release. It is, in my opinion, by far the easiest solution. It doesn't erase any pre-established lore while still allowing BOTW and TOTK to tell their own story and not worry about retcons. People were so sure that TOTK's past took place right after or before SS, but that never made any sense to me. I'm glad we finally have a somewhat definitive placement.
My personal theory is that Link reassembling the Triforce at the end of Zelda II: The Adventure of Link resulted in the three timelines being reunited. This also caused a massive cataclysm that likely destroyed Hyrule.
So basically the Triforce is Kingdom Hearts? I mean, you could wish for whatever you want so.....
That's a possibility, we don't know what he wished for there, and with some Zelda's having things like future sight, it's conceivable that Zelda II's sleeping princess had dreams of the other timelines and felt there was some need to reunite the timelines
@@justarandomguyontheinterne681 When you walk away, you don't hear me say
PLEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASEEEE, OH BABEH, DONT GO
@@justarandomguyontheinterne681 The Triforce doesn't technically let you wish for whatever you want. It lets you wish for what you want most in your heart. That means the Triforce chooses the wish for you. It just uses your heart as a guide of sorts.
Hyrule is…inevitable.
I also am a big fan of the idea that all possible routes and timelines lead to Hyrule’s existence, imperilment, eventual possible ruin, and the big three reincarnations of the aspects of the triforce always being there.
Even Demise didn't know what his curse was doing, Maybe this curse forces Hyrule to exist forever... Think about it, A princess needs a kingdom.
You speak truths
Then again in the japanese translation of Skyward Sword Demise never casted a "curse" towards Link and Hylia but instead gave them a _warning_ and a premonition of future catastrophes that would forever force their descendants to counter for all of Time. Demise didn't curse anyone but simply told them that the Demon Tribe would forever exist to break the _balance_ of the world and spread Chaos and destruction so that Link and Hylia's bloodline would counter it and return the world to Order. It's all just a cycle to maintain _balance_ between Order and Chaos in the Zelda universe.
I absolutely love this explanation for the reasons you note. It gives us both a fresh start and reboot, allows the old timeline to still exist, and, assuming some dimensional merge, brings all of the artifacts, history, and things we love from prior games together into a single reality going forward.
In Adventure of Link (aka Zelda 2), Hyrule is the name given to the whole expanded map, while "Old" Hyrule is the same uninhabited place of TLoZ, aka Zelda 1. Thus, even then, Hyrule is to be founded again.
I can’t wait for your new theories on both the the Shika and the Timeline and I can’t wait for the merch!!!
I still think TotK's past era is post Skyward Sword and pre Minish Cap. It seems to intentionally provide retroactive context to OoT. Ganondorf is accompanied by two particular Gerudo, and Phantom Ganon's weapons seem to confirm that they are Kotake and Koume. By the time of Ocarina, they're both nearly 500 years old. I think OoT's Ganondorf was named after and raised in the image of the ancient Ganondorf that had been sealed away. Twinrova taught him to falsely swear alleigance to the king, just like the ancient Ganondorf did. Maybe what he did to Hyrule Castle was to (either knowingly or unknowingly) weaken the Zonai seal in the Depths.
Another example is Rauru. Not King Rauru of Hyrule's founding, the Rauru of OoT. Supposedly he built the Temple of Time, and like Zonai Rauru, he is a sage of light. After the Zonai Temple of Time went up into the sky, a new sage of light, named after and trained in the image of ancient sage, built a new Temple of Time to continue it's purpose.
At least, that's what I believe the story is doing. If nothing else it's simply my own theory. Ive looked into the series' lore for a long time and unless I'm missing something, the Hyrule founding era doesn't necessarily contradict anything. The time beteen the founding of Hyrule and Ocarina of Time (indicated by the age of Twinrova) could probably be about ~450 years with Minish Cap squeezed in between. Especially ancient places in OoT could have simply been built before Hyrule's founding. If there's any issues with this theory I'd be happy to listen.
I feel like we're back in the late 2000's (pre-official timeline release) when there were linear-ists and splitters, but now the discussion is on whether the timelines remained split, or converged prior to BOTW.
This was indeed the most logical placement, there would've been far too much controversy if they place it around skyward sword
Thankfully its placed just where i figured it would be
Saw a video describing it was a parallel reality timeline where events from the 3waysplit timeline are like remixed and in a different order like how lorule is to hyrule, or majoras mask are parallel worlds. ngl that one makes a lot of sense.
I personally don't see why that would create controversy, we know at least 2 Ganons exist because of Four Sword Adventure, so there's no issue with another Ganondorf existing before OoT, and SS Link and Zelda had reasons to keep the Master Sword hidden for a time so Fi could rest and maintain the seal on Demise (which explains why Minish Cap makes no mention of the Master Sword either,) and Rauru might have been what motivated the people of Hyrule to establish a monarchy (hence why he was the first king,) etc. etc. I just don't see where the controversy comes in since it theoretically took about 10,000 years for Calamity Ganon to appear the first time. I mean I guess there's the Rito, but they could have just migrated from Hyrule at some point since they seem to normally be a more nomadic people, only returning around the time of BotW, at least that's what I've found from when I really analyzed them🤔
@@justarandomguyontheinterne681 idk... parallel reality is opening a whole different can of worms for the future & seems like just another way of separating Botw/Totk from the main timeline but we all have valid opinions it's why the Zelda team never gives a definitive answer, it's left to the theorists
There's something I heard somewhere (can't recall where, sadly), that proposes the concept of "eventuality," the idea of relevant changes and events that happened in one timeline branch don't necessarilly need the same circumstances to also happen in the other timelines.
The example it uses is the existence of the Rito, who before BotW were only found in the Adult Timeline, as an evolutionary descendant of the Zora after the land was flooded and the ocean left in its place was too dangerous to inhabit. Then, if the Rito came from the Zora in that timeline, there is the possibility that Rito can still come to be _eventually,_ but because of a different cause.
What I can say to this is, the vids of Thinking At Max Volume and Wiz Catches Lightning did help me sort out my confusion about the timeline that came up with BotW and TotK. Sure it's not waterproof but I at least can't think of a way to completely explain it all without contradictions and believable interpretations anyway. So it's better than nothing though I still have my own ideas of things that happened though I can't present solid proof.
Bruh I had a feeling this is what happened. The founding of a new kingdom.
Notif gang, can’t wait for this vid
Another banger video as always. Been catching up with my Zelda Tubers since I've had a very busy summer lol
This makes me like TOTKs story a bit more now, thanks man! Great job as always!
My own theory is that at the end of each timeline (not last game) a great event occured where the heroes of each timeline fought together against a villain where all 3 timelines eventually merged either through the wish of the triforce or another force. Eventually all 3 timelines merged. Explaining artifacts and references from all three timelines. It means that all the maps of hyrule also physically merged into one creating the map of botw and Totk. N when this occured the triforce was forever sealed away into the sacred realm and the residents of hyrule no longer had the knowledge of the triforce or anything related to hyrules past as 3 timelines were merged into one making everything and everyone “new”. This also explains y the trifoce is absent since it s been sealed away successfully by who ever did it. They finally achieved the goal to seal the triforce away from mortals and evil. The only other proof that remains of the existence of each timeline would be the races of hyrule, the bloodline of the goddess, the spirit of the hero and of course, the master sword. An incomplete theory but it kinda makes sense. Answers questions about the triforce, timeline and even opens up a possibility to make a game about the event that caused the merging of the timelines.
I like it. Something big definitely must've happened before the Zonai arrived.
¿Could that explain why Zelda has the Triforce hidden inside her? By hidding the Triforce within Hylia's bloodline the people of Hyrule ensure that no such tragedies as those commited in the old Eras repeat themselves again (the Hyrulean Civil War, the flooding of Hyrule, the Interloper War, the original Imprisoning War, etc.) ensuring a future free of said past conflicts and thus an opportunity for the newer kingdoms to thrive and develop technology without the lingering fear of some megalomaniac attempting to claim the Triforce for their own selfish gain.
I actually think all timelines come together in the botw/totk reality. Taking Thinking At Max Volume theory of the dragonbreak, is what I lean more to agree with
Wasn’t the dragon break theory Captain Burger’s originally?
@@Dyundu idk, I went to look at it and it seems Thinking at Max Volume's video is older than CaptBurgers'
I'm still of the mind that the Hyrule that Rauru founded was the original, since it fits what we know of the kingdom's founding (sky faring race coming down and founding the kingdom before disappearing as per Shad), but it's just a personal "headcanon" of mine. Great video as always.
Like the timelines spilt in Ocarina of time, a similar split happened in Skyward Sword with the time traveling there but just two rather then three.
I really DO like the theorization and how it can (or not) be placed here or there, for any new game and their own lore.
However, as much as I love that (and the community around it) I personally think that, for me at least, that “Legend” in every title, means exactly as the word does: every game’s its own legend and tells us how their story developes, with a few, or extreme, changes and comebacks… but a Legend at the end, in every game’s lore.
Never like mysteries with no intended answer.
Like theorizing about those mysteries is all to learn the truth of the mystery, if there’s never intended to be any answer at the end, technically no one is right, because there is no answer. (Exp: like if i talk about the mystery of what happened yesterday, regardless of everyone having those different theories, there is only one single answer. What happened yesterday is an objective question with one objective answer, not 2 nor 3, only one)
You can have a mystery, but give us bread crumbs to the intended answer. Or there could be no answer at first, but they could use fans feedback to build one.
“But surprisingly, that’s not what happened…”
Then an ad starts up with, “It happened.”
Can’t wait for the 4th (final?) installment of your evolution of hyrule series!!
Hyrule to me has always been this eternal kingdom. All this does is hammer that home.
Like the Curse of the Demon Tribe and the Triforce it's destined to _forever_ exist as part of a cycle no matter wathever catastrophe leads to it's utter destruction and it's eventual "reincarnation" just like Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Impa, Epona, etc.
I think Nintendo is wise, they did this in a way that allows everyone to belief what they want to belief.
For me it's a 50/50 thing as Nintendo has also encouraged discussion to suggest this a full reboot of the franchise which clearly cannot be if Skyward Sword is still canon creating problems regarding the games which were canon to Skyward Sword _before_ the Era of the Wild came to be. As long as Nintendo is not willing to contradict themselves in future games regarding the timeline i'm happy with the answer Fujibayashi has given.
I just can't believe they flat out admitted that everything sheikah related just disappeared but somehow some still remained.
Enough for Purah to work with and rebuild lmao
I always love the game theory... theory that the timeliness were merged in the events of the first hyrule warriors. Where some time witch lady gets the hots for links and accidently allows ganon to mess things up, leading to all three time lines being brought together.
This is actually a huge relieve. Just knowing that all previous games still happened is really comforting to me.
Why people care about that? it is just a game. a very good game. but still....just a game. relax guys
@@willian1917 One man's book is another man's game.
People get invested in lore and story, game or not. That's just how it is.
@@willian1917 the legend of zelda franchise has been my favourite thing for over 12 years since i was 7 years old. I played every game and i just love the stories of the games. They're just really nostalgic for me. So knowing that those games still are part of the lore is just great!
I like the idea of the three timelines converging brought the destruction of the old Kingdom of Hyrule (something similar to XC3 and Aionios). 🍃⚔️
Well it’s still something. It means that anywhere after Zelda 2, Four Sword adventures, spirit tracks, or all 3, there was an era of complete destruction. So bad, not near anything like the calamity. It also wasn’t like a flood-world reset, like the WW.
Something so bad, it was able to literally reset Hyrule. No ruins are left from the previous world too, so not even something to hold onto.
It left Hyrule as a pure, empty canvas. No kingdom, no law, no citizens. Only scattered bits of hylians, gerudo, possibly others, and the wild as of right now.
Then the zonaite descend from the skies, and change Hyrule. After years and years, the only ones left are rauru and mineru. Then Hyrule was born again with Sonia and rauru.
I honestly think this was a lot better than my therory of: there in the same word, but an alternate universe. Instead of skyward sword taking place, the zonai exist now, and such.
With this information and the suggestion that the Hyrule in BOTW and TOTK is a different Hyrule but still in the same timeline, we can infer that the Master Sword might be the oldest physical weapon in modern Hyrule. being the only artifact to make it all the way from SS to TOTK, (unless Zelda's blood line somehow absorbed the essence of the Triforce), and we know this because we can hear Fi in both BOTW and TOTK meaning that the Master Sword wasn't recreated like Hyrule was, but asking the question of where it could've been hidden for so long is mysterious and enticing. Maybe it was in the Lost Woods protected by perhaps multiple Great Deku Trees and the ancient Hyruleans jut didn't know how to navigate the Lost woods for a span of time? Or maybe stowed away someplace we've never seen before but was discovered between the Imprisoning war and the first Calamity.
TINGLE DID NOTHING WRONG!!! JUSTICE FOR TINGLE
NEVER! He scammed me out of my money too many times!
Tingle needs his hard drive checking 😂
Cant wait to see everyone argue for years for the placement, lol. Great video!
My theory is that its somehow a split either in skyward, after but only slightly, OR even before. The Era of Myth is a Parallel Reality (and technically this entire new 4th Timeline, but) that is a alternate reality version of the older games where the same events occur differently, or not at all.
That could explain the Zonai, Ganondorf, the missing Triforce, why the events of the past seems like a retelling of Ocarina of Time leading into the Downfall Timeline of the OG timeline.
Think Lorule being a parallel World to Hyrule. Things are the same but also different enough to be an opposite of some sort. Majoras Mask is also a Parallel World so why not a Parallel Timeline?
Makes it so both the OG Timeline and this New Parallel Timeline are canon. Did it Converge? Idk. Maybe? Idk when.
Like the Logo of Ouroboros. Which the Ourobours is also linked to Taosim which is also apart of Shinto, which is also what the Sky Islands architecure is based on. Which also is a form of Alchemy too. Yin Yang. Dualities.
OR!! Im just insane! :D And im glad i came up with that (and made a vid) before Fujibayashi came out and said what the timeline is. Wish i was right. Glad the people that theorized this are right tho! Making Theories are so fun!
Again great video! Cant wait to come up with more fun theories on the timeline! Cant wait for the book like Creating a champion to release. Gonna have a lot of juicy lore!
Also Fujibayashi did say "Its just a posibility"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation
" all possible outcomes really do occur - but that only a single version plays out in the world we inhabit"
Sounds like Zelda may be a multiverse? Again im prolly wrong. Im just insane lmao
this lets me continue my headcanon that the zonai are the ones that merged the timelines, and brought together many sacred artifacts (funny amiibo reference items) and such
It's been my theory from the beginning that Raru and Sonia are the first king and queen of Hyrule, but specifically *this* Hyrule. Since BotW and TotK take place such a long time in the future that all previous games could be more than ancient history.
Our actual modern human history is only about 8,000-10,000 years old starting with people like the ancient Egyptians, but human civilization is nearly 20,000 years old starting with the first human agricultural settlements, meaning there's about 10,000-12,000 years of human history that we know little to nothing about.
If the first Calamity took place 10,000 years before the Calamity of BotW, and the game itself takes place 100 years after that, it's entirely possible that the latest games in the timeline like Wind Waker, Spirit Tracks, and Phantom Hourglass take place hundreds of thousands to millions of years before even that first calamity. Hyrule could have fallen and risen again many times over by the time Raru and Sonia established this Hyrule and historical records could have been lost many times as well, they might not even *know* that other Hyrule kingdoms existed before them, and they just decided they were the first
Monster Maze Merch eh? 👀
Monster Merch
This was obvious because the Gerudo have the same pointed ears and green eyes as in Breath of the Wild, along with the existence of the Breath of the Wild evolutions of the Zora and Rito. The original Gerudo had round ears and topaz eyes before they integrated with Hyrule.
Regardless of whether there was merge or not, its pretty clear that this game does follow the Great Sea clearing because:
a) there are Koroks everywhere
b) there seems to be flourishing forests across modern day Hyrule and during Rauru's founding with every province containing many of them,
c) there is rock salt everywhere
d) the depths are full of deku tree-like thick ancient roots suggesting their plan in TWW was successful
So it looks like the Koroks were successful in planting all those trees that eventually cleared the flood - perhaps due to the devine power of the Deku Tree(s) - if you notice Hyrule is full of giant dead trees, likely Deku Trees of old.
Also as an aside, its worth notcing that all those Deku Tree Ancient Roots in the depths seem to rose up into the depths cave ceiling very very close to every single chasm, as though Ganondorf used them to spread his gloom.It would be ironic for the very things that brought old Hyrule surface back, resulted in this Ganondrof being able to spread his gloom/influence across new Hyrule.
It's the easiest answer to believe Ancient TOTK, BOTW, and TOTK take place all at the end of the timeline, but I'm not sure if it's the most satisfying one. Personally, I prefer the idea that these games exist in a separate timeline which branched off from Skyward Sword. As for how Ganondorf appears earlier, it could be due to a number of factors but it's interesting to note that he distinctly has rounded ears and that Koume & Kotake also appear but are much younger. So it's just possible that in this timeline branch that Ganondorf was born earlier.
In the end, is ganodorf really dead ? Is this really the last game of the timeline ?
prolly not thanks to the Bargainer statues underground, the ghosts of the dead/poes, and the fact that the bargainer "ferries souls, be them good or bad" Ganondorf is coming back im sure. Maybe not as Ganondorf tho? Maybe a new reincarnation?
This iteration of Ganondorf is dead yes, but that doesn’t mean that everything is over. There will be another Ganon in the future, however many centuries it takes for him to be born
My theory is that the original picori, the ones who came down from the sky, are the zonai, as both came from the sky, and both possessed magic, whether it be magic artifacts like th wish hat or just magic like rauru's. I know the minish in minish cap look a lot different but we don't know how much time passed. Also if you think about it the hero of men paintings are just that. paintings. Also it's a nice reference to the fact that they wanted to add minish to botw .
I hope there is at least a connection between the Minish and Zonai. That would be awesome. Maybe they are seperate races who originate from the same realm?
Worth noting though: the Minish apparently had feathered "tails" bellow their backs whereas the Zonai aren't know from having any bird like features that would make them similar to eachother. I would argue the Oocca from Twilight Princess have far more in common with the Minish than the Zonai for their at least have wings which make them similar to the Minish. Wathever the case there are too many "God races" in the Zelda Lore at the moment for all of them not to have any connection whatsoever.
I can’t wait to watch this when I’m home!
Monster Maze merch yes!! This was a great one, can't wait for the Zonai/Sheikah video!
i still like the idea of placing the distant past in totk after skyward sword, but that a potential refounding happened after that, resulting in the other games. but i also think that botw and totk would be at the end of the downfall timeline so idk
Wouldn't the Ganon in totk if it's after SS prevent the birth of ocarina Ganon? Thus causing a huge paradox? Kinda impossible to put totk's past before any game as it would cause huge contradictories
@@Rageouz yes i personally think that zelda being there in the past prevented some of the hyrulean civil war and splits off into a modified downfall timeline
I had a feeling that it wasn’t the original founding of Hyrule from the moment I entered the depths and saw the underwater theme. Even the name made me think of ocean depths rather than underground depths, and it lends credence to the great flood before WW.
yea the depths is where og hyrule is since ww
Anotha problem, there’s no mention of the Zonai species, NONE, nothing, theres probably something I don’t know about, but still!
Edit: skyward sword robots, constructs, skyward sword robot - construct, they mine resources, both are tealish, and have bluish energetic beams connecting joints and limbs.
@MonsterMaze is this theory possible
As i understand it the Lanayru Mining Facility was built by the Sheikah as all the Time Shift stones bear the crying eye symbol attribute to their tribe. That said it's very unlikely for the Sheikah's technology in Skyward Sword to be relate to the Zonai since the Timeshift Stones no longer _exist_ by the time of Rauru's Hyrule and thus it wouldn't be possible for the Zonai tribe to coneniently show up before Skyward Sword focused on the Timeshift Stones only to then change interest into the spontaneously formed Zonaite mineral just like that. It's too convenient for that to make sense.
@@javiervasquez625 yeah but the similarities are.. uncannily similar either way, they both made robots to mine important minerals.
To be clear I’m not arguing just adding to this idea
@@alternax9751 Very well it's good to entertain possibilities every once in awhile so i can relate. Hopefully we get more information regarding the Zonai soon for seeing all this similarities with the "ancient civilization" from Skyward Sword is eating away my soul at the possibility Nintendo is teasing a connection with the Zonai given the parallels between the Time Shift Stones and Zonaite as minerals with magical properties.
Here's to hoping we get a DLC/sequel soon already haha.
@@javiervasquez625 but here’s the thing! Time stones, secret stones? Time Sages Secret Stone?? Sounds pretty familiar!
Hallo allemaal. Now that was unexpected but a nice touch. 😄 Interesting video and it does make sense in certain ways. In the Zelda I & Zelda II games (downfall timeline), Hyrule was in a poor and neglected state so by the time Rauru founded the new existing Hyrule in BOTW, it is very possible they had no recollection that there had been a kingdom prior. making them think they were the first as all previous games are so far down in the past it's beyond legend. Nintendo did state years back that they wanted a clean slate and a new timeline, plus some changes in the gameplay itself, which was introduced with BOTW. Looking forward to what's in store for the franchise's future.
Well since it's confirmed it's not a standalone game and does fit in the timeline, the question is, does both the "distant" past that Zelda transports to and the "current" time BOTH exist after all the other games? Personally i like the idea that the founding of Hyrule in Rauru's time was before Ocarina of time which is why he appears as the sage of light in that game too, albeit in a different form. It also helps explain why "Hyrule Castle" in Raurus time is also in a completely different spot than it is in BOTW and why there are 2 different Temples of time one in the sky and one below. Also there was dragon style architecture in the fire temple in OOT so Zonai perhaps?
Nothing was "confirmed"
My favorite take will always be that Hyrule Heroes is canon, making it the convergence of all timelines and thats why these newer Zeldas have references of all games in the franchize.
My theory, before all this, was:
1. Hyrule is founded by Rauru, eons after Skyward;
2. Koume and Kotake are young in the memories; so, after Ganondorf failed, both witches tried to become immortal; both lived for centuries, waiting another oportunity;
3. After Rauru dead, Hyrule had a civil war, to decide the new king species;
4. After centuries, a new man was born in Gwrudo town and received the same name as the old king, and was created by the witches
5. Ocarina happened, right after the end of a civil war.
So late on this, but I always got the impression that it was so far in the future, that all the timelines are now merged into one, leading into BOTW and TOTK. Seeing this video just reaffirms my initial impressions of the two games.
My cousin suggested the idea that the convergence of the timelines happened with Triforce Heros, which is why there are three heros
Saw a video awhile back saying the timeline is a split somewhere in skyward sword and that it is a weird copy of the adult,child,downfall timeline but its not the exact same. It had me conviced. Still kinda does actually. Fujibayashi just feels like he spit balled. The lore ingame and the rest of the games imply otherwise.
also the books show the timeline changed and even mentions something like "the timeline can be reinterpreted due to new info" or something.
The whole "the timeline is up for reinterpretation" stuff is found only in the Zelda Encyclopedia which has been _confirmed_ to be filled innaccurate information which was NOT WRITTEN BY NINTENDO but rather the editors in charge of writing it down. Thus it CANNOT be considered as canon information unlike the Hyrule Historia and Creating a Champion books which *are* written by Aonuma and company to promote the respective games which they were published with.
That said i personally can't lean on any such theories regarding Skyward Sword due to the simple fact there are too many _references_ to past games in the Era of the Wild for Nintendo to have "wiped the slate clean" from the old timelines as if they didn't apply to the current games. I'm pretty certain this is a *soft* reboot of the timeline which is why so many story points and references appear all throughout the Hyrule in the Era of the Wild.
Skyward Sword is a timeloop. There cannot be a split as evidenced by Impa having the bracelet from the get-go and guarding the MS. Link and Zelda return to a present that has always been the way it is. If it was a split, a multitude of other shenanigans would happen.
This has been proven false, the books were originally wrote in japan with the devs helping using the actual design documents for the games. thats even why there are interviews. Just because you think otherwise doesnt make it fact. The books were written with the devs help. There are interviews. Infact it was only because fans wanted it so bad we even got them localized.
""Staff members were kind enough to go hunting through stacks of ancient documents," writes series producer Eiji Aonuma, "an experience akin to losing themselves in the depths of adventure."
@@javiervasquez625
Its also why the CDI games, and the Hyrule Warrior games are not in the books.
wasnt saying they "Wiped the slate clean"
Seriously look it up. Parallel Reality Timeline or something to that effect.
It is a mirror copy of the original timeline, they both exist in tandem. at the same time. Nothing is being de canonized.
plus the timeline has changed more than once.
"The Complete History of the Zelda Timeline" is a great video on that. So even if that book is "wrong" the timeline does change.
Nintendo does NOT care obviously about the placement. Otherwise we wouldnt be arguing bout it lol @@javiervasquez625
Nintendo kept saying there is no romance between Link and Zelda. But I however knew there is as I played both Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom Story. Here is the evidences I found:
- As Link walks out the Shrine of Resurrection, the Japanese Text in the Mission log speaks of a more personal perspectives as Link stated that he heard a beautiful woman's voice direction the location being mark on the Sheikah Slate. Yet he felt
- King Rhoam assigning “HIM” as her appointed knight in in the first entry of Zelda’s diary
- She is the only person that helps her Appointed Knight and Hero to be more opened to her as seen in Zelda’s diary entry in BOTW; explaining why he felt necessary to remain silent because with so much at stake and too many eyes upon him.
- After the Calamity emerges beneath Hyrule Castle and nearly 80% of the land’s population is nearby wiped out, Link is gravely wounded defending his princess. She jumps in front of Link which activates her sealing powers. It is not a friendship love. It is a romantic love to her knight.
- As Zelda is about to placed the Master Sword to it's pedestal, she is about to ask the Deku Tree to deliver a message of how much she loves Link. But it was cut off as he reassure her that her words would sound sweeter in her voice instead.
In the Champion’s Ballad DLC, Kass hints Zelda’s love for Link at the very last song. Read this lyric here: 🎵 “The princess's love for her fallen knight awakens her power / And within the castle the Calamity is forced to cower. But the knight survives! In the Shrine of Resurrection he sleeps, until from his healing dream he leaps! For fierce and deadly trials await. To regain his strength. To fulfill his fate. To become a hero once again! To wrest the princess from evil's den. The hero, the princess-hand in hand-Must bring the light back to this land.” 🎵
- After you collected all of Link's memories, the Japanese version of Breath of the Wild once again proven it had give Link more personality when he said this: "I traveled to the 13 places of reminiscence and received Princess Zelda's feelings.
Within the memories, Princess Zelda is trying her hardest...
I want to rescue Princess Zelda as soon as possible and see her smile once again with my own eyes."
- Petals of the Silent Princess flowers represent their endless love as Bolton has mentioned after the Terry Town side quest.
- In memory 8 of the Dragon Tears, Zelda tells Rauru her description of Link as well as her fondness of her knight/hero/lover. Her ancestors acted like the kind of parents who would be interested in meeting their daughter’s boyfriend and hoping to put Link’s mind at ease.
- Before the pair set out to investigate the glooms beneath Hyrule Castle, Zelda was about to surprise Link with the newly improved Champion’s Tunic as you read another diary in her Secret Study Room. This may be a way to make a marriage purposal since Link has grown immerse with the Zora's cultural ways since he was a boy. If you think how Mipha is gonna give him the Zora Armor before the Calamity struck, it makes alot of sense.
- Both become teachers in Zelda’s School to educate a new generation of Hylians in Hateno Village with the assistant of Symin (since they saw themselves through them).
- I’m not sure what the Japanese version is like, it claims that it is their home while the western called Link’s formal home “Zelda’s House”.
- A scene you get of Link surrounded by the silent princess flowers, a flower field where there are princess flowers and blue nightshade side-by-side, an npc implying married couples by dream homes, that dream home having a study and silent princesses nearby.
- After completing the side quest in Lurelin Village, NPC tells Link about the couple’s secret visit at the Lover’s Pond (meaning Zelda visits there with Link accompanying her while disguising herself from raising suspicion) as the Scholar Princess is fascinated with the fairies dancing around at night time.
- While the original Western version of Tears of the Kingdom calls this side quest “Potential Princess Sightings”, Link calls her "my sweet princess" in the Japanese quest log version: 「マイ・スウィート・プリンセス」
- in the final boss battle, Light Dragon (Zelda) comes to save and aids Link against Draconified Ganondorf which could mean not all of her is lost. Zelda’s love for Link could be explained by her dragon instinct.
- After exploring the geoglyphs, the Japanese version of the mission log shows that Link learned of Zelda becoming the Light Dragon (or white Dragon in Japanese) all to entrust the Master Sword to him, and he must live up to her feelings, no matter what; "なんとしてもゼルダ姫の想いに応えなければ" or "(I) have to live up to/must respond to Princess Zelda's feelings"
-Zelda’s dragonification is reversed when Rauru’s light power and Sonia’s time power channeling through Link. The reason why it happened was because they required Link’s stronger motives. And we have seen that before in BOTW where Zelda’s motives to save Link triggered her Light powers. It was love.
- The entire goal of the game from the start isn't even "Kill Ganondorf". Rather it's "Find Princess Zelda" proves how personal this is for Link, and that is only completed by Link catching the real Zelda.
- Link held on to her tightly as they landed on a lake. Upon being woken after being asleep for hundreds of thousands of years, Zelda can describe it as “a warm, loving embrace”.
- When Zelda said “ Link ,I’m home”, I believe it is not just she really returned to the Hyrule she belongs to. But Link is her home. In Japanese however, Zelda said this: "ただいま... リンク" (pronounced as I'm home Link). These words depict that is either someone close to family or a person you shared space with (aka lover). This hints that Link and Zelda are indeed lovers.
- Mineru Theorized that reversing Zelda’s Draconification requires Sonia’s Time power and Rauru’s Light Power to be channeled through Link’s arm; but activating magic is also in need of strong motive. That is when Zelda smiles at her knight knowing how much his princess means to him.
- In comparing the two secret endings, Link runs up to Zelda in Breath of the Wild while he walks proudly as he is showing his composure among his friends approaching Zelda. While she has shown a lot of love and care for the people of Hyrule, Princess Zelda’s true love is for Link and only the player can see the two of them in love.
Going over the evidences I pointed out in this analysis, this proves the romances between Link and Zelda are there in Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom.
You didn't mention Age of Calamity been canon despite the _massive_ evidence to the contrary so you get a like from me.
I don't see much of a difference between "reboot" and "so far in the future that it's pretty much disconnected", but I'm also not upset with the decision. I'm just glad we GOT confirmation, which is all I wanted. The gameplay always matters more than the story/timeline.
Great vid as always!
Maybe the next game will tell us about the destruction of the "old" kingdom of Hyrule. If the Kingdom is destroyed by a natural dissaster, there's no need of a "timeline convergence", because in the case of a natural dissaster, it would happen anyway.... independent of any timeline placement (earthquakes don't care about human history)
Ive seen this theory before, but following the logic they stated, all three original timelines could happen in one linear timeline. Theres just rise and fall, rise and fall. Ocarina of time could be a "canon event" that keeps happening which is why we even see a parallel of it in totk. They all happen, just way after eachother. Thats my thoughts anyway.
Hyrule being utterly destroyed and then re-founded _is_ better than an outright reboot, I'll give it that, but as I see it, it effectively amounts to just shy of a soft reboot and is still very much a cop-out.
I'm one of the, apparently, very few who thought that the series was better with an established continuity (and who likes the DT, no less), and the way TotK handled things doesn't satisfy me in the least.
Personally, its not the greatest but I can live with it. There were certainly worse ways they could have handled it.
Bro you need to relax. It's ridiculous to expect the Zelda team to connect these games to all of the other previous games in the timeline. The previous timeline is it convoluted as it is. Move on dude.
@@HipnotikHylian...I need to "relax" in what way, exactly? Don't think anything I said was especially confrontational, I'm just airing my personal viewpoint.
Regardless- continuity is _not_ as difficult and taxing a concept as so many people seem to think, and it doesn't take that much to facilitate. Heck, if they put a quarter of the amount of effort it must have taken to dust the map with Easter eggs into actually loosely tying back to those older games, I genuinely think they could have pulled it off no problem.
I agree that the continuity really took a beating after Skyward Sword. Up until Skyward Sword most games (mainly the 3D ones) followed up on each other reasonably well.
@@MonsterMazeEven at that, I think ALBW isn't _too_ much of a shakeup- there's a fair bit in its backstory that's questionable and require some creativity to get around, but it's not too hard to do.
BotW really does seem to be where they threw up their hands and gave up. And even then, that wouldn't strictly be a problem if TotK didn't then upend a lot of what BotW established. Their approach to continuity has always been loose, but lately it's been all over the place.
It felt like a timeline reboot, but I've suspected that Zelda has the complete triforce and if that's true, that would have been a strong indication that we are in a far flung future where the triforce has somehow been unified. I guess that's more likely than not what happened.
I figured that it was a re-establishment thing. It just seemed like the least messy solution.
I am a big subscriber to the convergence theory, as I like to think about what would have been required to accomplish such a thing? perhaps that convergence cost the Kingdom as the different versions were irreconcilable as they had existed, perhaps it cost the continued existence of the Triforce, perhaps it meant that the three Golden Goddess had to become part of the world again but in a form none would recognize (dragons).
I still think there is too much missing from the past Zelda was sent to. I think Rauru's reign was before Skyward Sword.
Look into the Parallel Reality Timeline Theory. Great theory.
@@GaryJuuce I did. Not a fan of it.
This is impossible because Zora, Rito and Gerudo didn´t evolve before Skyward sword.
@@Ahouro Except that the Rito legend of the Storm Arc neceitates their existence before the Cloud Barrier. Zora archetecture is present as part of Ancient Cystern. The Buddha statue, in the Ancient Cystern, has scales, where the hair would be (that or feathers). Groose is not the only red haired character on Skyloft. The statues in Skyview Temple look more like the Rito we see now, than the Loftwings. The Gerudo Dragonfly is named after something, yet there is no land, in Skyward Sword, with that name, leaving the people. And, the Gerudo cholor scheme, and patterns, decorate the Pirate Stronghold, also in Skyward Sword. Oh, and yes, the Parella and the Zora can absolutely exist at the same time.
One data point, and one theory is not enough to go on anymore.
@anthonysmith133 The Stormwing ark was created after a Zonia fell through the cloud barrier, it is not Zora architecture in the Ancient cistern it is Parella, the Parella evolved into the Zora, we know for a fact that the Gerudo din't exist during Skyward sword, we know for a fact that the Zora din't exist during Skyward sword and the statues at Skyview temple 100% looks like Loftwing.
Bring back Midna!
YES!
She would be already dead (if not very old) for that to ever happen. 🥺 It's safe to say if we ever see a future game dealing with the Twilight Realm again it will be through her descendants rather than herself. 😔
That’s why I think something happened between the conversion of the three timelines and breath of the wild where some wind Waker kind of thing happened but twas forgotten and things survived like the hero’s clothes in the depths or depths are the old Hyrule so things survived and then the zonai come
My theory is that at some point in the distant past before botw there was some sort of apocalyptic event that also served as a convergence of timelines. Either that or there was some inevitable apocalypse that occurred in all three timelines leading to them all having the same outcome
If the timeline is rebooted, then I am ok with that since I have grown to love Breath of the Wild, Age of Calamity and Tears of the Kingdom. The Zonai are still a mystery, who is the Ancient Hero from teh first Calamity, are there other regions outside of Hyrule, and I strongly believed the Triforce is within Zelda the whole time. So there may be a possibility that we may have a sequel to Tears of the Kingdom ton answered these unsolved questions.
Age of Calamity is NON CANON _confirmed_ by Tears of the Kingdom and it's time *loop* preventing Terrako from changing the timeline but you don't care. Wathever i leave this here to whoever might be unfortunate enough to read your misinformed statement and end up confused with the current canon established by Nintendo.
AoC is non canon to the Zelda Timeline. Nintendo confirmed it.
I read this cool theory, that Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom were a two-part reboot for the Zelda franchise. Thoughts?
Disproven now by what Fujibayashi just suggested plus the many references to past games including most above all Skyward Sword and all the constant reminding of Hylia's existence, Zelda been her direct descendant and of course Fi's iconic jingle at the end of Tears of the Kingdom.
Does anyone else think that fujibayashi kinda looks like the happy mask salesman?
my theory would flip it, i think raurus time and story happened between sky and minish cap, but given the events of the game it is possible and even likely the history of the imprisoning war was lost, together with all signs of the zonai for ages upon ages. If you think about for example hyrule castle being a seal for ganondorf/demon king, its unlikely just one castle survived multiple tens of thousands of years so its likely the seal was absolutely permanent and so powerful only the demons would be able to break it. I prefer to think demise is still relevant cuz i love ma daddy so ill also go ahead and say hylia was one of the zonai since it would make sense zelda be the reincarnation of her with the whole "hylians are descendants of the zonai". Also, we do know there has been more than one ganondorf so
Somehow this is still disappointing to me. I didn't love the hard reboot of the timeline theory because I love the older games but it was the only thing that made logical sense in my opinion. Usually for theories the simplest solution is the best and it just feels like the refounding theory has to make so many long leaps and stretches to hold it together. Whereas the literal legend theory was a simple elegant explanation that could completely explain everything else. Also I can't lie I was kind of looking forward to not having to deal with messy timeline theories all the time.
I'm going to apply a bit of Xenoblade Chronicles lore to explain my opinion on the Era of the Wild's placement in the timeline. Long story short, the events of Xenoblade 1 and 2 take place in their own separate realities. In Xenoblade 3, the worlds of the first two games merged into one albeit temporarily. At the end of the Future Redeemed expansion of the third game, the worlds on 1 and 2 merged back together supposedly permanently. What if sometime after Zelda 2, Spirit Tracks, and Four Swords adventure, all three timelines somehow merged back into one unified timeline. It would explain how the Zora and Rito coexist, why we see references from the previous four portions of the timeline, and why events from all previous games or now myths. As in why the Hyrule before Rauru became king was destroyed, it's possible that just like how there was another imprisoning war, there was also another Hyrulean *civil* war, where all races battle each other for dominance over the land before the Zonai appeared to end the fighting.
Plus we can also employ "divine intervention" to the merger of the timeline by invoking the Golden Goddesses as been responsible as part of a "divine plan" which demanded the timelines to merge in order to become a single one once more. As long as we have the Goddesses's guiding hands we can explain this plotpoint satisfactory with no inconsistency whatsoever.
I bet the kingdom wouldn't have fallen if Link was permitted to pet the animals.
I definitely think the timelines converging is the most likely idea, via some sort of dragonbreak thing like elder scrolls. Theres some really good videos by the channels “thinking at max volume” and “wiz catches lightning” that explore more about totks timeline shenanigans and all that. One suggestion is that zelda going back in time caused the convergence and that destroyed hyrule, but of course that still isnt a completely solid theory, but the details dont really matter as much as the fact that _something did_ happen, because interpretation and imagination and all that
Mind you in the Zelda pantheon we already have a set of deities who can carry out a "dragonbreak" on their own via the _Golden Goddesses_ who more than likely are the ones responsible for the convergence as part of a "divine plan" which they set up in order for all 3 timelines to cease existing as seperate branches by manipulating events in each one of them until only the Era of the Wild came along. As long as the goddesses are around you can bet that the timeline(s) will have a way to realign themselves should they see it fit that they do as much to keep the timeline as simple as they can possibly will it to be.
@@javiervasquez625 yeah that could check out, it wouldnt be the first time the goddesses brought destruction upon the land; flooding in the wind waker, and i think they covered up existing territory with the surface in skyward sword if i remember correctly
@@paperpopper2586 Skyward Sword either stated or implied (just going off memory from playing it on Wii, I haven't yet gotten around to getting a refresher from the HD version) at some point that before the creator goddesses arrived the land had been a place of darkness ruled by demons. The goddesses seized the world for themselves and painted their world full of light and life on top of the dark chaos that had been there before.
Of course that new aspect of the creation myth is all hidden in what is already forgotten ancient times during the events of SS. The creators left Hylia in charge and Hylia had her thriving technological civilization full of robots that was around for who knows how long, and then Demise showed up to try to retake the world for demonkind and that leads into the backstory that leads into the events of the game. Her battle against Demise. Sealing Demise. Creating Skyloft. Setting in motion her grand plan to create a stable predestination time loop for a mortal descendant to help finish Demise off.