MUSLIM DISCOVERS BIBLE VERSE MISSING-MATHEW 17-21 IS NOT THERE
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- čas přidán 18. 06. 2012
- Brother Rafiq discusses Missing Verses
:What is the definition of sin?
- Matthew 17 Verse 21
- Mark 16 Verse 9 - 16
Brother Shabir discusses the Understanding of 'Sin' and 'Reason' within Bible.
AllTruthRevealed
Peace Be With You. This is a personal thank you. I am Shabir, may the Creator bless you for your kind words. Please support us in spreading knowledge which will lead to certainty which in turn will lead to PEACE.
You and brothers like are the truth spreading army of Allah may Allah guide all the ummah.ameen
Peace be with you too brother Shabir. May Allah almighty bless your family and yourself. Ameen.
Shabir brother i salute you !
Peace Be With You. Thank you for your kind words. I sincerely request all my brothers and sisters to continue supporting our work. This so that we can take this message to as wide an audience as is practicably possible.
Salaams, thank you for your comments. Praise be to Allah who has given us the ability to reason with evidence. My Allah bless you too.
I could not find Matthew 17:21 in my NIV Holy Bible. !!!
Matthew 17:21
King James Version (KJV)
21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
The King James Version is the closet and first translation of the true word of God. The Geneva, NIV, The Message etc are to be used as a cross reference even the Geneva misses out verses in text. Refer to the KJV as your go to Bible.
I agree with you brother. people should pray to the creator to guide them to the truth, but a person must make an effort and not just sleep and wait God to reveal them something magically. God gave us minds to reason with, and books to read. that's why the first word revealed to Muhammad PBUH was "READ". a person must read and search and reason with his mind, and of course pray to your creator to guide you, if you're sincere about it, surely God will show you the way to him. peace be upon you.
Mr Pastor you cant just say I dont know why the verses have been taken out. Why do you allow that? How can you be ok with Christians all aroudn the world reading a corrupted bible.
What I see is the work of our great scholar "Ahmad Deedat."
It's all his work that these guys are following and destroying the business of Christianity with ease.
It should be "great scholar" in quotes, Ahmed Deedat was a clown - his knowledge of the bible was pathetic. And I can prove it from his own writings and videos.
nicerperson then prove it?
nicerperson he owned your paul and you were jelous and EXPOSED. Don't worry I kept some notes of your Naked ISIAH STORY to share with others And The word bible is not even in the PAUL Bible!
Raul Madrid I just noticed, your name is Raul, not Paul - my eyesight is not so good.You still talk shit about the Bible though.
nicerperson you are the one talking shit about the bible!!!
well done Shabir. great debate and Christians brothers left with no answers and in despair. I hope they will go home and reconsider their thoughts and understanding about the Bible.
He says I cant judge but gives judgement that all are born with sin!
our Christian brothers go in loops, why dont read Bible with critical mind, if its from GOD and Not Men than it should stand all tests.
when a Muslim brother approaches a Christian they act like duck and dive if as someone caught them red handed.
my Christian brothers we are not here to win or loose our debates, we should help each other to see the truth.
1. if Christians are right after death I am forgiven
2. if Muslims are right than we are ****.
Coming back to this video after years, and so glad to see this brother in the vid, haven't seen him for a while since, I hope he is well Insha'Allah
Yes Alhamdullilah he is well
Wassalaam, thank you for your comments.
Shabir yusuf, and Rafiq Yusuf
PBWY. Thank you for your response. I would like you to consider the following - Is there any internal evidence that confirms that the books of the Bible are from the Creator? I look forward to your response.
1. God never claims he is Jesus.
2. God never announce that Bible is the book from God compared to Al Quran
3. God never declare that Christianity is the true religion compared to Islam.
What else do the Christians want to argue???
I love the way Shabir Bhai involves himself into a conversation.
May ALLAH swt bless you Shabir Bhai.
All my love and duaas for you.
Ameen
Peace Be With You. Thank you for your question. I have had a look at the video from 8:42. I was explaining that the birth was such an advanced form of 'science' that we will understand it one day. That does not in any way deny that the birth of Isa A.S (Jesus Christ) at that time (and even today) was inexplicable (what we class as a miracle definitionally). I was merely suggesting that there will come a time when this may be explained. I hope that this clears the matter.
Peace Be With You. If it is in Mark 9:29 and it was removed from Matthew, are you suggesting that the verse in Matthew was added without authority or are you suggesting that the verse in Mark was also added. I look forward to clarification.
does a baby who dies a day later after birth does that mean he committed sin, even though the baby did not commit anything because he gets an sin from his parents?
This Christian man is so arrogant and so stubborn on the subject on the child 👶 it's unbelievable😕
Peace Be With You. Thank you for your input. When you state "it was only an addition and nothing more" what do you mean? I look forward to your response.
Peace Be With You. Can I kindly request the yardstick on a socio-anthropological basis that you have used in arriving at your opinion? I look forward to your response.
Peace Be With You. Thank you for your opinion. The verse has been interpreted by almost all scholars (Christian) in context and out of context. I sincerely suggest that you do further reading and come back to me. Shabir.
Both brother Shabir & Hashim look so young here. May Allah bless both of you
PBWY. Thank you for your reply. So do you agree with me that the canonization of what we call the Bible was done by the Church but we do not know who exactly the individuals were that canonized the book we call the Bible. I look forward to your comment.
Shabir mastered logic.
PBWY. Thank you for your response. 2 Timothy 3:16 states inter alia... 'all scripture is inspired of God...' if all the 73 books were written by authors (most unknown) who did not claim to be inspired (by definition) who determined that the 73 books were inspired. I look forward to your response.
Masya allah, bro shabir and rafik is very knowledgable...keep up good job....may allah bless you always. Aamiin.
Peace Be With You. I apologize if I did not make it clear enough. The two narratives talk about the same event but the numbering is different. The two verses I have mentioned are but one example. If you read the whole chapters you will note the errors. I hope that helps.
Mashallah, wish the best for you and your family.
Wassalaam, you are welcome my brother. carry on the work of Dawah.
Shabir Yusuf
I've been enjoying watching these videos. I also appreciate the way you attempt a rational and civil dialogue with those with whom you speak, but unfortunately the sound quality of a lot of these is a real pain to endure. I have to strain my ears to hear what is being said whilst absorbing all of the noisiness in the background. But none the less I thank you for sharing with us your conversational engagements and debates. It's nice to at least hear thinking people speak rather than parrots.
Peace Be With You. Thank you for your observation and you are fully entitled to your opinion (skewed though it may be) in this great country of ours.
InshAllah, we have finally got hold of an HD camera.
i can see ignorant people commenting here
I just love this guy,, he is so good, and patient,
and make very much scents.
Brother Shabir is amongst my favourite top 3 speakers along with brother shabir Ally and uncle Ahmed Deedat (Allah SWT bless his soul) may Allah SWT bless you all with Jannah for your efforts..
Peace Be With You. I would suggest that you rephrase the statement ' my God can do all things' because if you believe what you say then you agree with me that God can and does lie (re- the video). I await your evidential response. Shabir
Peace Be With You. My contention is that every respondent who has stated that 'evolution' has 'solid facts' usually is incapable of providing those 'facts'. Further, on an evidential basis, what evidence can you provide to assert that the idea of a Creator is 'ludicrous' I look forward to evidence for both.
Keep it up! BTW i think he should speak louder, not only it would be easier to hear but most importantly it'll also attract a lot more people. Because it is more interesting to hear someone who speak loud.
To address the question at around 35:00, Sin is described in the Bible as transgression of the law of God (1 John 3:4) and rebellion against God (Deuteronomy 9:7; Joshua 1:18).
Peace Be With You. Can you please establish your points evidentially. All I have noted in your post is opinion. I look forward to your response.
PBWY. Is that the King James version with 66 books or the one with 73 books?
Dr shabir mashallah no words can describe your reasoning, may Allah preserve you
Do not read the NIV they took bible verses out, the KJV says Matthew 17:21
Bible Says Jesus said Children will go to heaven. This was even read out to him. Christian says "no they will not go to heaven", Then he gets asked where will they go? He responds by saying "what you just read in the bible". And this goes round in circles because he wont admit his falshood
Christians don't even agree on what their own scriptures says. This is the quagmire that Christians find themselves in and its all down to pride and ignorance
Desert Born Oops! your logic hit back to Islam. Did any current Muslim see Mohd and Allah for their belief?
Alama Sgma sorry I dont understand what you mean
Desert Born That meant Muslim cannot prove Allah in Quran is REAL or this Allah is the same God in the Bible... b/c Jesus in the Bible exposed and called who denied the death and resurrection of Jesus in the God salvation plan is SATAN. This teaching clearly applied to Allah in Quran.
@@alamasgma846 liiiiiiiie were did Jesus said that ? maybe Paul said that not Jesus
Peace Be With You. I appreciate that you acknowledge that the Bible has gone through such stages. The question I would therefore ask is - Can you produce the 'original' which confirms what is true?
Will you continue to record with this quality? I hope so man, looks great.
holy shit that should blow any christian away...where is matthew chapter 17 verse 21... its been removed..king james verse..when revelation states not one word should be added nor taken away...which is well known and clearly seen!!!!!!theres even books missing some supposedly lost...
Salaams. May Allah reward you for your kind words. I will Inshallah let you know when I am coming to Saudi Arabia and maybe we can meet up. Wasalam Shabir
Asalaam alaykum wa rahmatAllahi wa barakatuhu brother - how May I contact you?
@@drcheekyisback Waalikumsalam Brother. Please contact me via email - yubro@hotmail.co.uk
Shabir
Brother Shabir may Allah reward you to the Paradise. I've been watching your videos from a long time and I can obviously see that you're getting better, keep it up please you know that the most work that Allah loves is a beneficial man among people.
I hope that I meet you one day and if Allah has not written that I hope it'd be in the Paradise Insha Allah.
If you ever think that you would visit Saudi Arabia please let me know whether for Omra'a or Hajj or even just visiting.
Salam Alikom.
Excellent
does BRTOTHER Rafiq have any other such meetings?
this is so funny ...he devastated Christianity completely ...lol
Maryam Miah who said I a christian?
Shabbir Shabbir Shabbir Mr cool Mr fact
Masya Allah....brilliant response Brother Shabir.....
By a comparison of the oldest Greek Master Texts available, it has been found that some verses of the Christian Greek Scriptures found in older translations, such as the King James Version, were actually additions made by later copyists and were never part of the inspired Scriptures. Therefore, it is evident that none of these verses were included in the original manuscripts. However, because the verse division generally accepted in Bible translations was already established in the 16th century, the omission of these verses now creates gaps in the verse numbering in most Bibles. The verses are Matthew 17:21; 18:11; 23:14; Mark 7:16; 9:44, 46; 11:26; 15:28; Luke 17:36; 23:17; John 5:4; Acts 8:37; 15:34; 24:7; 28:29; and Romans 16:24. Those omitted verses are indicated by a footnote at the location of the omission. It is of note that God does not prevent man from tearing a page out of the bible, removing, or adding to it. But God is faithful, he always makes sure that in his due time the truth is once again revealed.
Daniel 12:10 - Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand.
If you would like to request a free home bible study, please do so at the website below.
jw.org
The qur'an is one book not 1 not 2 not 3 not 4 not 5.bible has been altered so much.
2000 years and they still dont know how many books are in the bible ..haha
even Matt 18:11 is missing.
You r blind where is it missing. You know the fact you people are missing in this world.
mahendra rai shut up its missing
Seek truth - instead of just repeating heretics.
"For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost" omitted by RV, Ne, NIV, NKJV marg., RSV, GN, LB marg., NEB, NWT, JB. AMP italicises the verse, NASV brackets the verse.
Burgon (14) p 92, states that the verse is attested by *every known uncial* _except Aleph, B, L_ *and every known cursive* _except three_.
Also bearing witness to the verse are the Old Latin, Peshitta, Curetonian and Philoxenian Syriac, Coptic, Armenian, Ethiopic, Georgian and Slavonic versions. Of the fathers citing the verse, Burgon lists: 2nd Century: Tertullian; 3rd Century: Origen; 4th Century: Ambrose, Augustine, Chrysostom, pope Damasus, Hilary, Jerome, Theodorus Heracl.
Burgon adds that the verse was read in the Universal Eastern Church on the day following Pentecost, from the beginning. Berry's Greek text also contains the verse
Friend, it is true that Matt 18:11 is missing in the NIV, NLT and ESV Bibles. There is not only missing verses in Matthew, but countless other verses in the NIV, NLT, and ESV Bibles. This is one reason why some do not embrace the NIV, NLT and ESV Bibles and instead embrace the Authorized King James Version that do not have missing verses. Check it out, friends!
mahendra rai
yep its missing. in gact there are countless other verses missing.
Most people discussing these points would end up shouting at one another which would, sadly and inevitably, lead to insults being hurled.
It is truly admirable how Brother Shabir delicatly handles the Christian brothers. He presses points when appropriate and steps back and makes reference to the bible when they stop reasoning.
I would suggest, that this approach to Dawah probably achieves the best results.
Peace Be With You. On an evidential basis are you admitting that the New International version missed the verse? Secondly, was the verse omitted for evidential reasons or was this yet another 'printers error'. I look forward to your response.
well done Muslim
Your approach is all wrong. Pitting "Bible" against "Koran" against "Torah" against *any other* is where the problems of man today arise.
The Torah is the bible, it is the first 5 books. The Koran pits itself against the bible - the bible was around thousands of years before Muhammad and the new testament part 600 years earlier.
The Fallacy of False Assumptions: (Dr Robert Morey)
In logic as well as in law, "historical precedent" means that the burden of proof rests on those who set forth new theories and not on those whose ideas have already been verified. The old tests the new. The already established authority judges any new claims to authority. Since Islam came along many centuries after Christianity, Islam has the burden of proof and not Christianity. The Bible tests and judges the Qur'an. When the Bible and The Qur'an contradict each other, the Bible must logically be given first place as the older authority. The Qur'an is in error until it proves itself. Some Muslims violate the principle of historical precedent by asserting that Islam does not have the burden of proof and that the Qur'an judges the Bible.
hindus in india are saying their scriptures are more than 2000 years old. so according your theory we have to believe in their scripture not in bible and quran
From the history of Israel, we learn that in the time of Nebuchadnrzzar all the scriptures of Israel were burned and destroyed. They were later rewritten by Prophet Ezra. On close examination, there is a good deal of internal evidence that have been interfered with.
Example:
It is overhelmingly agreed in Rabbinical and Christian scholarships that Deuteronomy is written by Prophet Moses (as with the other 4 books that made altogether 5). But how would one consider the following, did Moses himself wrote - Deuteronomy 34: 5-6 "So Moses the servant of the LORD dies there in the Land of Moab according to the word of the LORD. And HE BURIED HIM in a valley in the Land of Moab over against Beth-Peor but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day."
zaini abdullah Joshua wrote it, he took over from Moses.
+niceperson
Summaries pertaining to the Old Testament - the 5 books (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) were final discourses of Moses GIVEN on the plains of Moab, shortly before his death. The New Scofield Reference Bible edition 1967 by Oxford Univ Press stated: Author - Moses; Theme: Law Restated; Date of Writing: c. 1450-1410 BC
lets say i agree with you for a moment . what do you say about the verses in your bible ?
Mashallah Bro yousuf.. By the grace of Allah SWT and he blessed you with great reasoning...and very very very nice approach..you being so humble but honest ..
i just love Shabir
he's beautifully reasoning
may Allah reward him.
PBWY. Can you please confirm where I can find the evidence for your contentions. I look forward to the evidence.
Peace Be With You. I will have a look at the video and respond to you. Thanks.
People, you need to understand what is the meaning of the word islam before you claim something that you dont wven know. Islam exist way before adam and eve....
PBWY. Thank you for your response. I did however ask you that if he was not inspired why does the division still remain today and what cogent evidence can you proffer from the Bible to ascertain whether the 66 books are 'inspired' or the 73 are 'inspired' I look forward to your response.
thats a brilliant point about redemtion. never thought of that .
I'll love to check out this park the next time I visit the UK!
Salam Brothers, i have a question.
do such debate take place all the year every day or only in the summer in the weekend......I have no idea. Is that spontan action..or planed!!!
Masha'Allah great video brothers excellent quality jazakullah'khair once again
Matthew 17:14-22 is a shortened version of Saint Mark's original account in Mark 9:14-32. In some English Bibles, Matt. 17:21 is included as a footnote, but obviously St. Matthew did not choose to include it in his original manuscript almost 2000 years ago.
Reasons for St. Matthew shortening and omitting some portions of St. Mark's account are unknown, but some scholars believe that Matthew, or his associates, had written several versions of his Gospel (i.e. Gospel according the Hebrews).
Peace Be With You. Please refer me to the particular video, we can then assess the same.
PBWY. Brother, I requested a criteria from my christian brothers and I worked on that basis. I was able to show that using the Biblical criteria, even 'God' is found to be wanting. If the evidence I produced for them is inadmissible or irrelevant, please explain 1 Kings 22:19-23. Does it claim that 'God' asked someone to lie?
Peace Be With You. You have hit the proverbial nail on the head! The question is why there are some versions of the Bible that have this verse included and some versions of the Bible which do not include this verse to be 'inspired' Please kindly explain.
@absman salah So it was not ordered by God to have the quranic recitations written down?
PBWY. You will note that I did state that the information would come from the Creator so logically it will either contain the necessary criteria to establish that it is from the Creator or one would have to be left to one's own whims to determine what certain verses say. If it is left to man's hands then error by definition will creep in and that unfortunately is the charge being made against the Bible. Logically, the Creator has to provide the criteria or we fall into error.
@ barry beninstones unlike most people I'm not one to youtube argue. I just wanted to clarify that my statement, "before science" means before science had made any such statements. Ignorance is a choice.
Salam. The discussions take place throughout the year but we travel 250 miles to get to London so we attend every 4 weeks in the spring and summer months. It is not planned, it is spontaneous. Wasalam Shabir.
PBWY. Respectfully, I did not ask who prays to whom. I requested whether you used the Bible with 66 or 73 books. You stated 66 books thereafter my observation RE: Rev 22:18-19 was that both parties may be cursed. Can you please clarify whether such a view is Biblically valid? I await a response.
Peace Be With You. If the verse is in your Bible I would respectfully suggest that either you are being misled or the person who is in possession of a Bible that does not have the verse is being misled. I look forward to your reasoning.
That verse is still in the King James bible, It was removed from other translations because some felt the original translation was not correct, there is only on version of the bible and with or without this verse the bible still declares that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he died on the cross for our sins.
Mash'Allah, may Allah grant these brothers Jannat Al Firdos, Insha'Allah. They are arguing in the way Allah instructed us to argue and reason, and that is a way that is befitting to our Lord Allah. May Allah guide us all, Ameen.
brother shabeer i love you for God's sake. keep doing the good work. may God reward you jannah.
this is called taking them to school, and no body does it better then brother Shabir.May ALLAH grant him Jenna amin.
Ameen
Please brother Shabir you have to educate us to explain like this inshAllah. So MashAllah inshAllah Ameen
Shabir is brilliant. Hashim i am your Bro Ahmed from Algeria, you look so young masha Allah but with beard is better. نحبكم في الله
As per the question, "When we allow an officer to go through a traffic light, why have we allowed him?" That's a very good and fair question, to which I would answer with yet another question: From where, or should I say, from whom does he get his authority? From the law, (whether coming from "WE the people" or from a dictator), but especially those [laws] which are from God himself.
Actually, this question just made me think of something, but are "Islam" and "Muslim" defined in the Koran?
absman, our Creator did open my mind. He did this when I recognized and accepted His character. It has been my life's search to know God. I was derailed many times with false teachings, including islam and koran, but when I decided to hold God to the same strict standard He says He holds me to, I began to see what I needed to see. God is perfect. He requires you and me to be as well. He knows we're not and never will be so He made a way by which we can. In the life of Jesus He showed us.
Here is the original verse spoken by Jesus as recorded in Mark and footnoted in Matthew:
Mark 9:29 (NASB) - And He said to them, “This kind cannot come out by anything but prayer.”
Matthew 17:21 (NIV; footnote a) - "But this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting."
Brother shabir still is the coolest speaker in speakers corner even today
PBWY. Respectfully the division of 'old' and 'new' is a man made arrangement. Nevertheless are you suggesting that the verses in Revelations are restricted to the book of Revelations only? if that is so what is the original word used for the word 'book' in the verses? I look forward to your response.
The video "Purpose of Reason and Meaning [21 OCT 2012]"
From 8:43
@AllTruthRevealed Who first recorded the quranic recitations on paper? In other words who wrote the Quran after it was revealed. Unknown =)?
It's written in the KJV Matt. 17:21 However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and Fasting.
Also reflect on the fact that Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) is commanded in the verses above to “Say” twice. This is a command to make a certain statement to the people. One can find this command “Say” 332 times throughout the Qur’an. In other places in the Qur’an he is ordered to “proclaim”, “Glorify Your Lord”, “Prostrate Yourself” etc. So we ask is this how a man talks to himself or writes a book?
PBWY. I did not twit your statement, I only asked you (according to you) was Martin Luther 'inspired' and if not why does the division of 66 and 73 yet still remain and since 'God' did not sanction it, is it valid! He introduced the idea of 'Sola Gratia and Sola Fide' based on the notion of 'Sola Scriptura', I look forward to your response.
i agree at least for a moment . what do you say about the clear verses in your bible .