Having 10 alts all parked @ chests that i can log in and out of for free loot isnt an advantage at all right? The mental gymnastics people use to defend pay to win is funny 😂 Having 9 character slots isnt a power boost in your ability to switch roles and playstyles? What about having all the templates and being able to swap to whatever you want at will? Let alone storage, and as already mentioned teleports/alt parking @ rare loot locations etc. Thats just the character aspect of the advantages you can buy, for money, after paying for all the game, expansions (upgrades not expansions), and living world seasons (again argueably upgrades, not expansions). While we are on the topic i hope you can see the difference between paying to upgrade your game (faster mounts, level 80 boost, better farming areas) and an expansion with new content. In this games design and model if you do not own the latest version (or all of them) you are at a disadvantage relative to someone who does (aka someone who spends money). Now while there is "content" behind these expenses, they do not separate you from the main player base in competitive modes, ie an advantage that ONLY money can buy. Depending on the misguided views of people of the internet (who cant use google or translate english) pay to win can mean many things. It does not. It is very clear and concise in its definition, please google it right now if you dont know what it is. Gaining an advantage in game by spending $ is the TLDR and they clearly offer you a progression system in this game by spending money. You argue that because i can grind for 1$/hour (if that) i should be happy to grind 10 hours to unlock a bank slot? OR spend 10$? For 3 slots in a bank, 10$. After i got a game and expansions for close to 150$ it wants more. Thats genre defining end game goals right there 😂, unlock the stuff that shouldve been in the game in the first place. But now that getting to the endgame is easier, it is completely useless. The gold to gem conversion ratio is rediculous, time gating you essentially (or you can pay) to grind for hours on end doing the games repetitive content. The same way the inventory, storage for mats, 5/9 character slots on a fully paid game, and the list of paywalls goes on and on. The main thing people dont seem to grasp is that this is pretty much cheating, but its okay so long as TOS says so and the company gets money. Worst of all you defend it and approve it when YOU ARE THE VICTIM. The company is doing fine and the game would have probably done better without the cash shop (i would still be playing it for one, and ik im not alone here in abandoning this mmo). Worst of all do you see the game getting any improvements with the money you invest? All the living world seasons i played sucked. The story in this game is trash. The fractals are okay? What the fuck happened to dungeons, theyre trash. Open world is a joke, you can beat the hardest zones in the game no problem. Speaking of that the game outside of raids (coordinating a group is the only challenge in this game) is rediculously easy. Raids arent even that hard theres just an extremely tanky enemy who shows you where and when hes going to attack like night and day. The only way you will mess up is when theres 500 light and water aoes on the ground because fk dps and being able to see right? Youd think after all the $ sunk into this game theyd at least be smart enough to change the visuals somehow so that everything doesnt = circle on the ground. TLDR: rant over, cash stores kill games and this game is definitely pay to win (by definition, learn to use google) as progression and quality of life, money, mounts, classes, etc are all clearly advantages over those who do not own the current/latest season. And even if you get them all the game still wants more for basix features. Predatory at least.
Because, not going to lie, swapping between condi mirage, power chrono, and power virt while in WVW while fighting the same opponent MIGHT be considered pay to win. Idk im not an expert though, you should ask the guy i killed ;) he seemed pretty upset.
pay to win: The ability and/or practice of exchanging real-world currency for an in-game benefit. Guild wars 2 is pay to win. Yes, you can reach the same level and gear without paying but also you can buy gems, make them gold, upgrade a leatherworker,etc. to 500 and create ascended gear which is the best in terms of stats. You can get gems and make them gold, and gold is everything in gw2. You can obtain skyscale faster if you throw some gold to it. Candy corn gobbler. Makes wvw reward track faster, makes experience gain increase. Which you buy with real money. You can throw money to gw2 and remove a huge repetitive grind.
@@xGuidersreal money -> in-game benefits. I've bought inventory slots. They make my life easier. I pay, in order to not waste time grinding more. My real life time. To do the content i want to do faster, without having to unlock a bunch of stuff to reach max level and gear. I can throw money at it, and reach what i want faster.
@@xGuiderstakes ALOT of farming @ 30 gold/hour. When you can spend 10$ and get ~300 gold Read his first sentance, he defined pay to win and then explained how it is pay to win.
I hate those discussions. P2W has no clear definition. I can easily say: Based on semantics, I can PAY real money to WIN at the game, by changing gems into gold and buying legendaries r high end gear. Thus, I have an ADVANTAGE in progression over normal players in terms of progression. Yes, GW2 can be considered P2W. But, since it's progression is horizontal, it simply doesn't have a big effect after a certain point. Reducing the P2W discussion on PvP only misses the point. Competition can be present even without hard number interfaces, given by the game. Simply standing in Lions Arch and showing off your eye-cancer inducing infusions can be a form of competition for aknowledgement. P2W is not simply: Me credit card for higher numbers than you. The definition you brought up in the beginning is incredibly outdated in times of live-services and microtransactions in an ever changing market. There is a reason this debate comes up every once and again in GW2. And that is because, based on your definition, GW2 CAN be considered to have P2W elements.
Yea these discussions are a thin line, which is why I had to laugh about it at the end of the video, I was not sure in which direction was the community going to take it, but hey, worth telling all the newer players what theyre in for
Gaining a advantage over non paying players is the base definition not really hard to figure out if it fits it only gets blurry when you start adding terms like pay for convince gw2 has professions that are usually way stronger than base game locked behind a purchase making it p2w
I love gw2 - however, power creep is real. Vanilla classes simply can’t achieve the same dps or healing as expansion classes - or the bump from Weapon Mastery adding 5 to 10k to some classes bench. Gold farming is also quicker in expansion maps, so combine power creep and faster farming = GW2 is Buy to Win Quicker. And I’m ok with that, because it’s fun
I don't think I've seen anyone ever actually consider buying expansions or story content as P2W, it's just expected if you play the game at least semi-seriously.
I mean, think of it, how can a game like this, fund itself without expansions if all it has to offer is the base game, they would go bankrupt and there would not be a GW2.
@@IskarJalak It's very simple. Does spending money give you an advantage? If yes, it's pay to win. It may not be as pay to win as say Diablo Immortal, but it's still pay to win.
@@australienski6687 yeah i mean i could farm for a legendary weapon for a month or i could swipe 100 euros and just flat out buy it from the trading post. So i consider gw2 p2w because you can exchange real money for ingame currency. Though it's not giving you a big advantage over normal players except for the fact that you can play more classes faster. Take Lost ark as an example i can spend like 50k and be close to maxed out on a single character vs i can spend 100 euros in gw2 and buy full exotic gear and ascendet gear for multiple characters maybe even my whole account for like 10 characters.
GW2 is a "Pay 2 have a chance to win" game. The expansions themselves give these things that tip the scale in competitive combat: - Elite specializations. - Weapon access. - Expansion-exclusive runes and relics. - Specifically for Rangers: Expansion-specific pets. The more ways you have to customize your builds, the more chances to counter play you have. Imagine your build options if you are a F2P account or you only own SOTO. Good luck in SPvP and WvW.
I agree, the Elite Specs do give an edge, but they are also incentives to monetize the game in some way. Just take a look at korean games, in comparison to how much you can get by paying compared to games like GW2, dont you think the P2W aspect is a bit negligible>
@@xGuiders The level of P2W you are thinking of doesn't exist in things like domestic versions of Lost Ark or BDO. You are thinking of mobile F2P shovelwares, especially the ones that come out of China. The worst I have personal experience with is a game called Idle Angels. It sells costumes that are only purchasable with real money. They are no mere cosmetics, because every costumes you have in your account wardrobe counts toward a progression system that gives stat bonuses to your entire lineup for each tier you can reach.
Can you buy legendary weapons for real money, sure you can. Can you craft ascended gear set if you pay money, sure you can. Can you get the best food, potions and so on if you pay money, sure you can. In gw2 you can buy the game, all expansions, all living worlds buy storage, bank tabs, shared storage... plus all the gear you want and max out a character in a day if you pay money. For a free player, even an ascended set would take months if he just started, gold is super rare. To be able to reach pay player level of goods will take years (if ever happened). So, it all depends on definition of pay to win, for me GW2 is as pay to win as let’s say Lost Ark. After all any player can get to the same level after months/years of playing :) Don't get me wrong, I love the game. I play every day and buy lots of things in the gem store for money. But I am not delusional about what is pay to win, and what is not. If you wonder, in 2023 everything is pay to win. At best it is pay to skip 5-10 years of your life grinding :)
@@xGuidersNo. There are games out there not pay to win. Like for example LOL. You just pay for cosmetics.. But paying won't make you a skilled player.
After playing and paying for monthly sub with WoW for nearly ten years, buying occasional items from the gem store is a choice, not an obligation. Yes, Ive paid for four expansions but they were still cheaper that WoW’s expansions. I never had to buy Living World series as they were included by logging in daily. Is GW2 worth what I have invested? Absolutely and I am glad to support the continued evolution of this game!
I have only the first 2 expantions, and 500 h in game. I farmed gold for so much utility from the gemstore, and for free. Two bank tabs, 2 stash expanders, all 3 salvage o matics, Candy gobler and LW 2 and 4.I would have invest much more in utility, but i developed my character at the same time, full artificier, almsot full ascended gear with infusions and now i will unlock the griffon.I dont feel the need to buy the last 2 expantions. Not bcs i dont want them, or like them, is bcs i dont NEED them. I still have tons to do with what i have. GW 2 is pay once to play forever. Evsrything you want from the gemstore, you can buy with ingame gold. It has one of the best economies of all the mmos out there. The only game i can think it has similar progression mechanics and market is Warframe, but Warframe is not really an rpg. Ofc, if you buy gold with real life money, youre progression will be much faster. But that doesnt mean you will be good in fractals, raids, strikes, pvp and wvw. The only things that you can get with money are utility and skins.
It's borderline pay to win, the best specs, weapons and mounts are locked behind a paywall. For example, core necro sucks you can not play competitively with necro unless you spend money on expansions to unlock the elite specs and weapons. Also mounts give you a clear advantage, you can not own mounts without spending money.
YES you buy gems and with that you buy gold to kit yourself out with a legendary weapon. and i would even argue that buying the unbreakable tools is paying to win. Pay to win does not mean free players can not reach the same point. it just means you can pay to gain an advantage (maybe temporarily) the whole sickening mobile market has just changed peoples opinion on this matter.
But u can still get tools without gems no? Only diff is that they break, and u have to get new ones. The unbreakable ones are just convenience, you dont have to buy tools every time or waste the inventory slots
Totally agree with you, ppl are just brainwashed. New generations, log in, swipe a card, here you go full lego set and no pay to win hahaha hillarious.
The most this game is pay for convenience, ive bought bag expansions, bank expansions, outfits and the salvage bot ,but again you can convert gold to gems if you dont want to dish real money for it. Yes it makes my day to day a little easier/faster but there is no power/stat boosting at all. Im grinding for ascended gear on my 1st character and gem store doesnt help with that, gotta put in the time. Side note: highly recommend get SotO to get a Skyscale fairly easily (1-2 weeks of work)
30g/hr avg grind (some are better ik). 800 gems =10 $ = 375 gold give or take... So 375/30= ~12.5 hours Spending 10$ to save 12.5 hours of grinding is definitely pay to win lol, be as technical as you want the exchange rates are horrid
Everything you said at 02:10 is wrong. You can't purchase Living World Season 4 in the gemstore without having Path of Fire (the bundle literally doesn't show up on f2p account) and you also can't exchange gold to gems as a f2p - only gems to gold. The Skyscale is also not the most important mount in the game, if you only use the Skyscale for everything you're severly gimping yourself. Just putting this here for potential new players to see.
GW2 is one of if not the BEST MMO when it comes to what you get for your investment time/money. I bought it in preorder back then in 2012 been playing it 11 straight years and I still LOVE it as the first day. In all that time I spent 50$ for the game and (40+30+30+25$) expansions, so in total 175$ for 11 years. Compare that to Elder Scrolls Online I tried recently (expansion+all the DLCs you need at least 350$) plus you need to have monthly whatever they call it just to get CRAFTING MATERIALS bag!!! To say GW2 is FAIR is modest statement, to this day I have not played or heard of a game that gives you more for less and in all that respects your time (there is no classical grind in GW2 or vertical progression)!
P2w for me is , spending money to get something that is not available (or realisticly obtaineable) by playing the game, xpac doent count since you dont pay for power, but for content
Agreed, I spend a decent amount in the gem store and willingly do so. I love the game and have no problem giving support to the team. All the items I have purchased were skins and QoL items that are certainly not required to be competitive. Note: I've taken months to years away and everytime I come back there is nothing to make you feel irrelevant, just features one would like to enjoy/ explore any new content. It's a superb model and no regrets giving back through the gem 💎 store.
Definitley pay to win, swipe and buy all legendary weapons swipe by all storage space, swipe by all salvage kits swipe buy all the expensive stuff on the trading post swipe swipe swipe, now on a level of pay to win it is about a 3 out of 10 but it definitely is Pay to Win.
Gold and Time savers are advantages in GW2 and for someone that can spend irl money to access these on a swipe is a huge win. Yes GW2 is P2W. It's tolerable and not as bad as other P2W games but let's not pretend that's it's not. PS. If you are paying IRL money just for the convenience then you are still paying to win because you paid to overcome the grind/suffering/challenge with the power of money not with time investment nor skill (IRL job skill maybe XD).
Well grinding IRL to avoid the grind in the game is kind of a real life cheat, and I second that xD. But still, disagree with your the game is pay to win thing 🙄, as there is nothing, apart from expansions, that is locked behind money and that any player cant get in a short period of time.
@@xGuiders Skyscale/Griffon unlock(gold/material requirements), Living Worlds, Bag Slots, Bank Slots, Shared Inventory Slots, Infinite gathering tools, Bank/TP/Merchant Summon, etc. There is nothing stopping a person throwing their pocket change $5-10k at these in a heartbeat and will have significantly better experience than a person that is grinding for days just to buy one of em. As I said it's not as bad as the other P2W games and if we would rank GW2 as a P2W game compared to the others it will be at the bottom of the list but it is still on that list.
@@ygnizemcenia6059I have all of that and never paid for anything.. being lazy it's not the same as pay to win.. you know you can make thousands of gold's in minutes right? Or can farm a couple of thousands doing some events.
GW2 isn´t pay to win but it´s not entirely free either. Besides the expansions you have to pay for the living world episodes. Character Slots etc. are not free. The things you can buy are more quality of live. And you have to pay a lot for this kind of quality in this game.
People asking if gw2 pay to win have never played real pay to win Korean game. Just an example c9 a game i played for years got so bad with psy to win they straight up sold you max level gear with upgrades no less, introduced a system where you wear a cosmetic that gives you stats and a "soul" you socket into each of those cosmetics that are randomly dropped from chests with less than a 1% chance for any of them with each requiring you to be one of the 50 +classes. And this is one aspect. Thry had multiple systems that require you to just straight gacha your way into it.
exactly how I am basing my opinion. Check blade and soul, BDO, all these korean games. This is p2w, gw2 has those microtransactions to stay alive, and not to suck the money from it's players.
can't use the trading to sell or buy things from players as f2p so a f2p has it harder and you have no mounts you walk very slow across the map everything is just bad as f2p they could give people at least a raptor🤣
I believe the F2P part of the game is just to introduce players to the game and see if they are willing to invest in it. Don't forget, the game was buy to play before. It is one of the bigger MMOs out there, and two of it's competitors have sub based model, and at least you can get to level 80 as a f2p player unlike other games where they give you a trial to level 20 or so. What are your thoughts?
@freedom_fighta I've ran across the term " Pay to Progress." I think that is a close analogy. I just picked up an item and it's made travel a lot easier as well as allowing easier access to lots of things. It's something that makes the game more enjoyable. So if you want to enjoy a game more that you already paid for you need to pay again.
This only applies to gw2 and some other games tho. Other games can be extremely pay to win to the point you cant even catch up, especially games with vertical progression.
Ofc it's pay to win LOOOOL i as fwp player have to suffer thousands of hours to earn gear where some righ guy jsut swipe credit card and buy full legendary ser on TP :D
You can still get Ascended if you are serious about investing time in the game. And Ascended stats = Legendary stats. So, I still dont see wheres the advantage here?
Hmm interesting, so your saying you can aquire all legendary gear by just... going to gem shop, swipe the card, exchange those gems into gold, go to trading post and buy every legendary armor piece, trinkets, weapons just from Trading Post bcs they all will be there. Am I correctly understanding your statement from your comment you posted?
You have a huge misconception of P2W. What you have pointed out is pay for convenience. Legendary items have the same stats as ascended gear and be thankful that none of the recipes and ingredients to forge these items are locked behind monetization that burns through your hard earned money. Then, if move into PVP, gears have the same ceiling stats for all players. It means even whales won't be able to quickly drop your health to 0%.
LoL you can get only legendary weapon from 1 gen on TP, the rest you have to farm like the rest, and on the latest patch everyone can get box with half done legendary. It is not Like WoW
If you're spending thousands of hours to get gear, sorry to say, you're playing the game wrong. Ascended gear with the best stats are very easy to get. Legendary weapons are the only things you can directly buy with gold, the rest of legendart gear (armor, trinkets etc) require you to work/farm for them. Legendary offer no stat advantage over ascended gear, just convenience. So no, swiping to buy a legendary weapon from the TP is not pay to win.
Anybody who thinks it is pay to win is simply bad at the video game. Paying only adds convenience, convenience does not equal winning lots of players pay money and are still trash at the game. Pay to win means you are paying money to have an unwavering advantage over a person or player who does not pay, if that advantage can be overstepped by a person who does not pay it is not pay to win. Everyone who says it is pay to win is simply making an excuse because they are bad and too proud to admit they need to improve.
Or maybe they just think buying gold for real money and using it to buy materials and items on the TP is an advantage. Buying extra characters to farm and bag space to make it easier to manage. Not like that's an advantage or anything.
@FoulPet yes, but thinking something doesn't make it correct. All these things are conveniences, none of it is needed to win or to progress, all of it can be done pay or not. You do not need a cup to drink or utensils to eat. They only make it easier. Just like people pay for cups or utensils, many will pay for an easier time progressing, but that same progress can be made by playing, and again paying for the finest gear does not equate to higher skill, a person who doesnt know how to play bit has lehendary gear can be out dpsed by a skilled player in exotic gear. A person on elite spec builds can be beaten by somebody on a core build. Saying the game is pay to win simply because one can buy convenience when convenience means nothing is only making excuses. Making convenience seem like it is necessary is a sign of their own inability or lack of determination or desire to improve. It is the thoughts and words of a person who puts in no effort but expects the same prizes as somebody who works hard. They say it is pay to win because they can't win, and so they blame convenience instead of biting their pride and having to put in effort.
@@alkaid5756 what game allows you to buy something with cash you can't eventually get with time? A full set of armor and a lvl boost aren't free but it's easier to get to end game. I got 2 with my purchase. I find eating pizza or hotdogs is easier using hands than forks. Some games just give you the illusion that you can get it. Spend 3 weeks grinding content to get a +1 boost or just spend $5. Sure you'll eventually get it but time is money. Wouldn't you rather just play a zone or would you want farm flips on the TP. If I invest $100 in the game, I have access to zones f2p do not. I also have one extra class and multiple elite skills you do not. I can actually buy gold and buy anything off the TP. Most new players won't be dropping 4k gold on one item. There's nothing to "win" in most games unless you're playing for real money. You're playing for fun. If fun is winning, then being gimped because a stack is limited to 250 instead of 999, then that's a loss. So far, I'm having fun. I've played a bit over a month. I can say that my fun has been hampered by stupid restrictions on bank size. Stack size. BUT with just a little MORE money, I can remove that. Not like the $70 I've already spent would be enough. Just spend a little more. PvP, it doesn't matter. PvE, it does matter. It probably does matter in WvW. If you don't think $1000 would buy some type of early ingame advantage, then I'm at a loss. After 10 years of playing, I don't think it would matter much to some people. Other than skill and knowledge. $$ will buy me anything you've worked for.
Having 10 alts all parked @ chests that i can log in and out of for free loot isnt an advantage at all right?
The mental gymnastics people use to defend pay to win is funny 😂
Having 9 character slots isnt a power boost in your ability to switch roles and playstyles? What about having all the templates and being able to swap to whatever you want at will? Let alone storage, and as already mentioned teleports/alt parking @ rare loot locations etc.
Thats just the character aspect of the advantages you can buy, for money, after paying for all the game, expansions (upgrades not expansions), and living world seasons (again argueably upgrades, not expansions).
While we are on the topic i hope you can see the difference between paying to upgrade your game (faster mounts, level 80 boost, better farming areas) and an expansion with new content. In this games design and model if you do not own the latest version (or all of them) you are at a disadvantage relative to someone who does (aka someone who spends money). Now while there is "content" behind these expenses, they do not separate you from the main player base in competitive modes, ie an advantage that ONLY money can buy.
Depending on the misguided views of people of the internet (who cant use google or translate english) pay to win can mean many things. It does not. It is very clear and concise in its definition, please google it right now if you dont know what it is. Gaining an advantage in game by spending $ is the TLDR and they clearly offer you a progression system in this game by spending money.
You argue that because i can grind for 1$/hour (if that) i should be happy to grind 10 hours to unlock a bank slot? OR spend 10$? For 3 slots in a bank, 10$. After i got a game and expansions for close to 150$ it wants more.
Thats genre defining end game goals right there 😂, unlock the stuff that shouldve been in the game in the first place. But now that getting to the endgame is easier, it is completely useless.
The gold to gem conversion ratio is rediculous, time gating you essentially (or you can pay) to grind for hours on end doing the games repetitive content. The same way the inventory, storage for mats, 5/9 character slots on a fully paid game, and the list of paywalls goes on and on.
The main thing people dont seem to grasp is that this is pretty much cheating, but its okay so long as TOS says so and the company gets money. Worst of all you defend it and approve it when YOU ARE THE VICTIM. The company is doing fine and the game would have probably done better without the cash shop (i would still be playing it for one, and ik im not alone here in abandoning this mmo). Worst of all do you see the game getting any improvements with the money you invest? All the living world seasons i played sucked. The story in this game is trash. The fractals are okay? What the fuck happened to dungeons, theyre trash. Open world is a joke, you can beat the hardest zones in the game no problem. Speaking of that the game outside of raids (coordinating a group is the only challenge in this game) is rediculously easy. Raids arent even that hard theres just an extremely tanky enemy who shows you where and when hes going to attack like night and day. The only way you will mess up is when theres 500 light and water aoes on the ground because fk dps and being able to see right?
Youd think after all the $ sunk into this game theyd at least be smart enough to change the visuals somehow so that everything doesnt = circle on the ground.
TLDR: rant over, cash stores kill games and this game is definitely pay to win (by definition, learn to use google) as progression and quality of life, money, mounts, classes, etc are all clearly advantages over those who do not own the current/latest season. And even if you get them all the game still wants more for basix features.
Predatory at least.
Because, not going to lie, swapping between condi mirage, power chrono, and power virt while in WVW while fighting the same opponent MIGHT be considered pay to win.
Idk im not an expert though, you should ask the guy i killed ;) he seemed pretty upset.
pay to win: The ability and/or practice of exchanging real-world currency for an in-game benefit.
Guild wars 2 is pay to win. Yes, you can reach the same level and gear without paying but also you can buy gems, make them gold, upgrade a leatherworker,etc. to 500 and create ascended gear which is the best in terms of stats.
You can get gems and make them gold, and gold is everything in gw2. You can obtain skyscale faster if you throw some gold to it.
Candy corn gobbler. Makes wvw reward track faster, makes experience gain increase. Which you buy with real money.
You can throw money to gw2 and remove a huge repetitive grind.
But again, you can get all this with gold, and in fact, it doesnt take so much farming, im really trying to understand your perspective
@@xGuidersreal money -> in-game benefits.
I've bought inventory slots. They make my life easier.
I pay, in order to not waste time grinding more. My real life time. To do the content i want to do faster, without having to unlock a bunch of stuff to reach max level and gear. I can throw money at it, and reach what i want faster.
@@xGuiderstakes ALOT of farming @ 30 gold/hour. When you can spend 10$ and get ~300 gold
Read his first sentance, he defined pay to win and then explained how it is pay to win.
Easiest example would be the expansion professions there's a p2w aspect it's just not as noticable as something like bdo
I hate those discussions. P2W has no clear definition. I can easily say: Based on semantics, I can PAY real money to WIN at the game, by changing gems into gold and buying legendaries r high end gear. Thus, I have an ADVANTAGE in progression over normal players in terms of progression.
Yes, GW2 can be considered P2W. But, since it's progression is horizontal, it simply doesn't have a big effect after a certain point.
Reducing the P2W discussion on PvP only misses the point. Competition can be present even without hard number interfaces, given by the game. Simply standing in Lions Arch and showing off your eye-cancer inducing infusions can be a form of competition for aknowledgement.
P2W is not simply: Me credit card for higher numbers than you. The definition you brought up in the beginning is incredibly outdated in times of live-services and microtransactions in an ever changing market. There is a reason this debate comes up every once and again in GW2. And that is because, based on your definition, GW2 CAN be considered to have P2W elements.
Yea these discussions are a thin line, which is why I had to laugh about it at the end of the video, I was not sure in which direction was the community going to take it, but hey, worth telling all the newer players what theyre in for
Gaining a advantage over non paying players is the base definition not really hard to figure out if it fits it only gets blurry when you start adding terms like pay for convince gw2 has professions that are usually way stronger than base game locked behind a purchase making it p2w
I love gw2 - however, power creep is real. Vanilla classes simply can’t achieve the same dps or healing as expansion classes - or the bump from Weapon Mastery adding 5 to 10k to some classes bench.
Gold farming is also quicker in expansion maps, so combine power creep and faster farming = GW2 is Buy to Win Quicker. And I’m ok with that, because it’s fun
I don't think I've seen anyone ever actually consider buying expansions or story content as P2W, it's just expected if you play the game at least semi-seriously.
I mean, think of it, how can a game like this, fund itself without expansions if all it has to offer is the base game, they would go bankrupt and there would not be a GW2.
@@IskarJalak It's very simple. Does spending money give you an advantage? If yes, it's pay to win. It may not be as pay to win as say Diablo Immortal, but it's still pay to win.
@@australienski6687 yeah i mean i could farm for a legendary weapon for a month or i could swipe 100 euros and just flat out buy it from the trading post. So i consider gw2 p2w because you can exchange real money for ingame currency. Though it's not giving you a big advantage over normal players except for the fact that you can play more classes faster. Take Lost ark as an example i can spend like 50k and be close to maxed out on a single character vs i can spend 100 euros in gw2 and buy full exotic gear and ascendet gear for multiple characters maybe even my whole account for like 10 characters.
GW2 is a "Pay 2 have a chance to win" game. The expansions themselves give these things that tip the scale in competitive combat:
- Elite specializations.
- Weapon access.
- Expansion-exclusive runes and relics.
- Specifically for Rangers: Expansion-specific pets.
The more ways you have to customize your builds, the more chances to counter play you have. Imagine your build options if you are a F2P account or you only own SOTO. Good luck in SPvP and WvW.
I agree, the Elite Specs do give an edge, but they are also incentives to monetize the game in some way. Just take a look at korean games, in comparison to how much you can get by paying compared to games like GW2, dont you think the P2W aspect is a bit negligible>
@@xGuiders The level of P2W you are thinking of doesn't exist in things like domestic versions of Lost Ark or BDO. You are thinking of mobile F2P shovelwares, especially the ones that come out of China. The worst I have personal experience with is a game called Idle Angels. It sells costumes that are only purchasable with real money. They are no mere cosmetics, because every costumes you have in your account wardrobe counts toward a progression system that gives stat bonuses to your entire lineup for each tier you can reach.
GW2 was and still is a buy2play game. Calling it free2play is not right, it's really just a free unlimited trial.
@@Aereton Yes, which is why it's "Pay 2 have a chance to win", not "Free 2 Play".
Can you buy legendary weapons for real money, sure you can. Can you craft ascended gear set if you pay money, sure you can. Can you get the best food, potions and so on if you pay money, sure you can. In gw2 you can buy the game, all expansions, all living worlds buy storage, bank tabs, shared storage... plus all the gear you want and max out a character in a day if you pay money. For a free player, even an ascended set would take months if he just started, gold is super rare. To be able to reach pay player level of goods will take years (if ever happened). So, it all depends on definition of pay to win, for me GW2 is as pay to win as let’s say Lost Ark. After all any player can get to the same level after months/years of playing :) Don't get me wrong, I love the game. I play every day and buy lots of things in the gem store for money. But I am not delusional about what is pay to win, and what is not. If you wonder, in 2023 everything is pay to win. At best it is pay to skip 5-10 years of your life grinding :)
if we will take this thought process, then isnt every game pay to win? But love your honesty :D
@@xGuidersthey didnt use to be. Use to be able to buy a game, earn everything, and "win" :D now they wana milk for $
@@xGuidersNo. There are games out there not pay to win. Like for example LOL. You just pay for cosmetics.. But paying won't make you a skilled player.
After playing and paying for monthly sub with WoW for nearly ten years, buying occasional items from the gem store is a choice, not an obligation. Yes, Ive paid for four expansions but they were still cheaper that WoW’s expansions. I never had to buy Living World series as they were included by logging in daily. Is GW2 worth what I have invested? Absolutely and I am glad to support the continued evolution of this game!
yay! loving the energy
I have only the first 2 expantions, and 500 h in game. I farmed gold for so much utility from the gemstore, and for free. Two bank tabs, 2 stash expanders, all 3 salvage o matics, Candy gobler and LW 2 and 4.I would have invest much more in utility, but i developed my character at the same time, full artificier, almsot full ascended gear with infusions and now i will unlock the griffon.I dont feel the need to buy the last 2 expantions. Not bcs i dont want them, or like them, is bcs i dont NEED them. I still have tons to do with what i have. GW 2 is pay once to play forever. Evsrything you want from the gemstore, you can buy with ingame gold.
It has one of the best economies of all the mmos out there. The only game i can think it has similar progression mechanics and market is Warframe, but Warframe is not really an rpg. Ofc, if you buy gold with real life money, youre progression will be much faster. But that doesnt mean you will be good in fractals, raids, strikes, pvp and wvw. The only things that you can get with money are utility and skins.
It's borderline pay to win, the best specs, weapons and mounts are locked behind a paywall. For example, core necro sucks you can not play competitively with necro unless you spend money on expansions to unlock the elite specs and weapons. Also mounts give you a clear advantage, you can not own mounts without spending money.
YES you buy gems and with that you buy gold to kit yourself out with a legendary weapon. and i would even argue that buying the unbreakable tools is paying to win. Pay to win does not mean free players can not reach the same point. it just means you can pay to gain an advantage (maybe temporarily) the whole sickening mobile market has just changed peoples opinion on this matter.
But u can still get tools without gems no? Only diff is that they break, and u have to get new ones. The unbreakable ones are just convenience, you dont have to buy tools every time or waste the inventory slots
or you buy exotic, money for crafting ascended? in tht case all games are pay to win
Totally agree with you, ppl are just brainwashed. New generations, log in, swipe a card, here you go full lego set and no pay to win hahaha hillarious.
@@xGuiders the unbreakable tools have glyphs to gather more
@@wiziek no they are not, weird argument. Not all games have ways to pay real money for in game currency.
The most this game is pay for convenience, ive bought bag expansions, bank expansions, outfits and the salvage bot ,but again you can convert gold to gems if you dont want to dish real money for it. Yes it makes my day to day a little easier/faster but there is no power/stat boosting at all. Im grinding for ascended gear on my 1st character and gem store doesnt help with that, gotta put in the time.
Side note: highly recommend get SotO to get a Skyscale fairly easily (1-2 weeks of work)
Help me convince other people xD
30g/hr avg grind (some are better ik). 800 gems =10 $ = 375 gold give or take...
So 375/30= ~12.5 hours
Spending 10$ to save 12.5 hours of grinding is definitely pay to win lol, be as technical as you want the exchange rates are horrid
@@flailmail7069again, that's pay for convenience, you can achieve the same goals by farming and not paying a dime
But paying for a specialization givs you an advantage over a free account, but there is nothing wrong with the game being pay to win.
If thats what you think
Everything you said at 02:10 is wrong. You can't purchase Living World Season 4 in the gemstore without having Path of Fire (the bundle literally doesn't show up on f2p account) and you also can't exchange gold to gems as a f2p - only gems to gold. The Skyscale is also not the most important mount in the game, if you only use the Skyscale for everything you're severly gimping yourself.
Just putting this here for potential new players to see.
GW2 is one of if not the BEST MMO when it comes to what you get for your investment time/money. I bought it in preorder back then in 2012 been playing it 11 straight years and I still LOVE it as the first day. In all that time I spent 50$ for the game and (40+30+30+25$) expansions, so in total 175$ for 11 years. Compare that to Elder Scrolls Online I tried recently (expansion+all the DLCs you need at least 350$) plus you need to have monthly whatever they call it just to get CRAFTING MATERIALS bag!!! To say GW2 is FAIR is modest statement, to this day I have not played or heard of a game that gives you more for less and in all that respects your time (there is no classical grind in GW2 or vertical progression)!
Sums it up :D
i prolly spent like 1200€ because im obsessed with gemstore stuff:(
@@AimSuckerme to, I have loads,but I have spend 0 cash
yes it is.
exp boosters, bag slots, character slots, storage
foh. whales have a huge advantage.
P2w for me is , spending money to get something that is not available (or realisticly obtaineable) by playing the game, xpac doent count since you dont pay for power, but for content
Yesss, this!
Agreed, I spend a decent amount in the gem store and willingly do so. I love the game and have no problem giving support to the team.
All the items I have purchased were skins and QoL items that are certainly not required to be competitive.
Note: I've taken months to years away and everytime I come back there is nothing to make you feel irrelevant, just features one would like to enjoy/ explore any new content. It's a superb model and no regrets giving back through the gem 💎 store.
Also, to reiterate. There have never been items in the gem store that give an edge in power over other players. Just neat stuff to enjoy.
I've been feeling alot same quite recently, just before SOTO i've had an urge to gladly spend in the gem store
agree with all things except 1: Griffon > Skyscale
And i respect your opinion my guy
As one of my guildie say "You cannot buy skills" cheers
your guildie is a wise person
Odd that people charge to teach skills. 10 min from my home is a vocational school. I've even seen YTers plug their teaching hussle.
Definitley pay to win, swipe and buy all legendary weapons swipe by all storage space, swipe by all salvage kits swipe buy all the expensive stuff on the trading post swipe swipe swipe, now on a level of pay to win it is about a 3 out of 10 but it definitely is Pay to Win.
Gold and Time savers are advantages in GW2 and for someone that can spend irl money to access these on a swipe is a huge win. Yes GW2 is P2W. It's tolerable and not as bad as other P2W games but let's not pretend that's it's not.
PS. If you are paying IRL money just for the convenience then you are still paying to win because you paid to overcome the grind/suffering/challenge with the power of money not with time investment nor skill (IRL job skill maybe XD).
Well grinding IRL to avoid the grind in the game is kind of a real life cheat, and I second that xD.
But still, disagree with your the game is pay to win thing 🙄, as there is nothing, apart from expansions, that is locked behind money and that any player cant get in a short period of time.
@@xGuiders Skyscale/Griffon unlock(gold/material requirements), Living Worlds, Bag Slots, Bank Slots, Shared Inventory Slots, Infinite gathering tools, Bank/TP/Merchant Summon, etc. There is nothing stopping a person throwing their pocket change $5-10k at these in a heartbeat and will have significantly better experience than a person that is grinding for days just to buy one of em. As I said it's not as bad as the other P2W games and if we would rank GW2 as a P2W game compared to the others it will be at the bottom of the list but it is still on that list.
@@ygnizemcenia6059I have all of that and never paid for anything.. being lazy it's not the same as pay to win.. you know you can make thousands of gold's in minutes right? Or can farm a couple of thousands doing some events.
GW2 isn´t pay to win but it´s not entirely free either. Besides the expansions you have to pay for the living world episodes. Character Slots etc. are not free. The things you can buy are more quality of live. And you have to pay a lot for this kind of quality in this game.
Game's gotta monetize itself somehow
Its predatory
People asking if gw2 pay to win have never played real pay to win Korean game. Just an example c9 a game i played for years got so bad with psy to win they straight up sold you max level gear with upgrades no less, introduced a system where you wear a cosmetic that gives you stats and a "soul" you socket into each of those cosmetics that are randomly dropped from chests with less than a 1% chance for any of them with each requiring you to be one of the 50 +classes. And this is one aspect.
Thry had multiple systems that require you to just straight gacha your way into it.
exactly how I am basing my opinion. Check blade and soul, BDO, all these korean games. This is p2w, gw2 has those microtransactions to stay alive, and not to suck the money from it's players.
GW2 is korean lol
@@limwellz yeah you missed the point i think.
Its pay to win. If you are new player avoid this. Only the veterans with complete legendaries will tell you that its not Pay 2 Win.
can't use the trading to sell or buy things from players as f2p so a f2p has it harder and you have no mounts you walk very slow across the map everything is just bad as f2p they could give people at least a raptor🤣
I believe the F2P part of the game is just to introduce players to the game and see if they are willing to invest in it. Don't forget, the game was buy to play before. It is one of the bigger MMOs out there, and two of it's competitors have sub based model, and at least you can get to level 80 as a f2p player unlike other games where they give you a trial to level 20 or so.
What are your thoughts?
GW2 is Pay for Convenience.
Agree
Definition of convenience it to make something easier. If it's easier because of $$ then it's an advantage and therfore PtW.
Whats the difference lol
@@FoulPet Yes in some way it is but it's not blatant as just buying the best gear or weapons.
@freedom_fighta I've ran across the term " Pay to Progress." I think that is a close analogy. I just picked up an item and it's made travel a lot easier as well as allowing easier access to lots of things. It's something that makes the game more enjoyable. So if you want to enjoy a game more that you already paid for you need to pay again.
Lol I almost choke on my weed when you said “other game” then I see BnS 😂😂😂
Same publisher soo, would be good comparison xD
No, it's not... You can All Farming InGame and InGame Shop Currencies too... Main Game is Free to Play and you pay only for Addons...
Totally agree
its only to you to learn very good to your character and the game system and eurything go well for you
This only applies to gw2 and some other games tho. Other games can be extremely pay to win to the point you cant even catch up, especially games with vertical progression.
Ofc it's pay to win LOOOOL i as fwp player have to suffer thousands of hours to earn gear where some righ guy jsut swipe credit card and buy full legendary ser on TP :D
You can still get Ascended if you are serious about investing time in the game. And Ascended stats = Legendary stats. So, I still dont see wheres the advantage here?
Hmm interesting, so your saying you can aquire all legendary gear by just... going to gem shop, swipe the card, exchange those gems into gold, go to trading post and buy every legendary armor piece, trinkets, weapons just from Trading Post bcs they all will be there. Am I correctly understanding your statement from your comment you posted?
You have a huge misconception of P2W. What you have pointed out is pay for convenience. Legendary items have the same stats as ascended gear and be thankful that none of the recipes and ingredients to forge these items are locked behind monetization that burns through your hard earned money. Then, if move into PVP, gears have the same ceiling stats for all players. It means even whales won't be able to quickly drop your health to 0%.
LoL you can get only legendary weapon from 1 gen on TP, the rest you have to farm like the rest, and on the latest patch everyone can get box with half done legendary. It is not Like WoW
If you're spending thousands of hours to get gear, sorry to say, you're playing the game wrong. Ascended gear with the best stats are very easy to get. Legendary weapons are the only things you can directly buy with gold, the rest of legendart gear (armor, trinkets etc) require you to work/farm for them. Legendary offer no stat advantage over ascended gear, just convenience.
So no, swiping to buy a legendary weapon from the TP is not pay to win.
BDO and ESO are p2w
And BNS. But thats the answer i was waiting for :D
its not pay to win! im ten years on this game and the game not have nothing to be better from the others.
I think newer players have a harder time to cope with this idea.
Anybody who thinks it is pay to win is simply bad at the video game. Paying only adds convenience, convenience does not equal winning lots of players pay money and are still trash at the game. Pay to win means you are paying money to have an unwavering advantage over a person or player who does not pay, if that advantage can be overstepped by a person who does not pay it is not pay to win. Everyone who says it is pay to win is simply making an excuse because they are bad and too proud to admit they need to improve.
Thats one way to look at it
Or maybe they just think buying gold for real money and using it to buy materials and items on the TP is an advantage. Buying extra characters to farm and bag space to make it easier to manage. Not like that's an advantage or anything.
@FoulPet yes, but thinking something doesn't make it correct. All these things are conveniences, none of it is needed to win or to progress, all of it can be done pay or not. You do not need a cup to drink or utensils to eat. They only make it easier. Just like people pay for cups or utensils, many will pay for an easier time progressing, but that same progress can be made by playing, and again paying for the finest gear does not equate to higher skill, a person who doesnt know how to play bit has lehendary gear can be out dpsed by a skilled player in exotic gear. A person on elite spec builds can be beaten by somebody on a core build. Saying the game is pay to win simply because one can buy convenience when convenience means nothing is only making excuses. Making convenience seem like it is necessary is a sign of their own inability or lack of determination or desire to improve. It is the thoughts and words of a person who puts in no effort but expects the same prizes as somebody who works hard. They say it is pay to win because they can't win, and so they blame convenience instead of biting their pride and having to put in effort.
@@alkaid5756 what game allows you to buy something with cash you can't eventually get with time? A full set of armor and a lvl boost aren't free but it's easier to get to end game. I got 2 with my purchase. I find eating pizza or hotdogs is easier using hands than forks. Some games just give you the illusion that you can get it. Spend 3 weeks grinding content to get a +1 boost or just spend $5. Sure you'll eventually get it but time is money. Wouldn't you rather just play a zone or would you want farm flips on the TP. If I invest $100 in the game, I have access to zones f2p do not. I also have one extra class and multiple elite skills you do not. I can actually buy gold and buy anything off the TP. Most new players won't be dropping 4k gold on one item. There's nothing to "win" in most games unless you're playing for real money. You're playing for fun. If fun is winning, then being gimped because a stack is limited to 250 instead of 999, then that's a loss. So far, I'm having fun. I've played a bit over a month. I can say that my fun has been hampered by stupid restrictions on bank size. Stack size. BUT with just a little MORE money, I can remove that. Not like the $70 I've already spent would be enough. Just spend a little more. PvP, it doesn't matter. PvE, it does matter. It probably does matter in WvW. If you don't think $1000 would buy some type of early ingame advantage, then I'm at a loss. After 10 years of playing, I don't think it would matter much to some people. Other than skill and knowledge. $$ will buy me anything you've worked for.
Does it take off hours of grinding: check
Can you have an advantage over others doing that: check
Pay to win
The Answer is no, no need to watch.
Thats why these were my first few words xD
a big NOOOOOOOO
🙌