Fasting was used as a self prescribed punishment for minor sinful acts. Deny the flesh to proof the soul! It is not a sign of one's conviction but a symbol of extreme regret for slights against God..just an FYI!
As an addendum, the term "cult" does not always imply a group is malicious...there were and exist many peaceful cults whom remain silent last the christians and Catholics decide to light the pyres again!
Once again, Holy Spirit has used something from JP to shed light on things in my life. I serve the Lord in a congregation that is truly on the Edge. In our ministering to and sharing Christ with the folks in different stages of recovery who make up a large part of our little church family, we confront the monsters at the edges every day. Indeed, they are in the pews and in our gatherings, but they are in processes of being transformed. I feel more like a companion of Christopher, now that I understand the story. We are here, standing on the edge of the river helping to cross over those who would…I also notice that, even though he’s tough, like a “Holy Ghost biker dude”, Christopher doesn’t force anyone across that water. When I was a little Roman Catholic kid, he was one of my favorite saints, but I didn’t know why. God knew, though.
I am surprised a stronger connection isn't drawn between Christopher and fathers. Occupying a marginal space, I'm sure his story is patterned in many transitions but that of fatherhood seems most strong. Christ presents himself as a child who calls to Christopher, only after Christopher made a conscious decision to pursue the greatest earthly good. Taking on the child puts him in peril and causes profound transformation that requires he sacrifice his own passions and eventually his life. I may just be seeing what is most near to me but that appears to be a story about moving from self-centered single life into fatherhood. Patron saint of new dads.
After seeing the images of St Christopher, I remembered Brienne of Tarth from Game of Thrones. Thinking about it further, Brienne's character seems like a retelling of this story!
I see St. Christopher is not actually in the bible. Are there any written accounts of the St Christopher story that would be considered foundational or definitive? I'd like to read into this.
In my informed opinion these has something to do with mistranslation of languages in the ancient times plus the superstition and tall stories of each culture combine. Hebrew - Canaan (/ˈkeɪnən/; Phoenician: 𐤊𐤍𐤏𐤍 - Kenāʿn; Hebrew: כְּנַעַן - Kənáʿan Christopher is a man from Canaan. He's a Canaanite. My suspicion is, in some language "caninus" (latin) means dog this is where we get the english word "canine" "kyno" (greek) means dog. Because of the knowledge that time people see and interprets them as literal. My suspicion is people thought in the ancient times that people in Canaan where literally were dog-man especially if you were from the other side of the Mediterranean sea (west).
well the native Atimosspikay (Dogrib ) people of the north west territory believe that they are the descendents of a celestial dog man who came for the sky with a mortal woman.
In the Orthodox Survival Course conducted by Frs. Seraphim Rose and Herman Podmoshensky at the Platina Monastery, they condemn the legend of St. Christopher as an example of Western "romanticizing." I'm so grateful this exists as an alternative explanation. On the surface, it appears to be a silly story. It's obviously more than that, and by dismissing it as a "fairy story," I believe Fr. Rose & Fr. Podmoshensky - for all their insight and wisdom - actually fall into the very Western trap of literal truth (which Rose also, I believe, does with his young earth Creationist interpretation of Genesis). And they set themselves up for a similar fall, at least with respect to this story. Here is the relevant portion of the Orthodox Survival Course, which remains excellent and worthy of reading / listening. Speaking of the Middle Ages and Scholasticism, Fr. Rose continues: "Something else happened. And that is that Orthodox tradition is not only rationalized, it also becomes mixed with romance. The element of pagan legends entering into Orthodox Lives of Saints in this time made it so that there are some Lives of Saints which we have in our Orthodox sources, if you read the same Life of a Saint in a medieval Latin source, you will be completely astonished. We'll take one example, the life of St. Christopher, which is known -- not too much is known actually about him, but his Life is known: he was a soldier and he was martyred, put to tortures. And there are a number of miracles in the Life; he has a staff that sprouts - this was in the tradition of Orthodox Lives of Saints. But there is a book written in the thirteenth century, the very thing which exists in English, The Golden Legend, which is a synthesis or a compilation of lives of saints, like we have daily readings of Dimitry of Rostov, Lives of Saints which is the same thing. Every day there is Life of a Saint. The Golden Legend makes something into being fairy tales or something, not just accounts of something. In the thirteenth century, the height of Middle Ages, before the Renaissance or anything, (when Joachim was doing all the changing?) and here he gives the life of St. Christopher, which is such a one that you won’t know what he’s talking about. So it seems that according to this "life,” St. Christopher was some kind of barbarian who decided he wanted to go in search of the most powerful king in the world in order to serve him. And he finds some kind of powerful king, who’s big, as always happens, and he serves him and is very happy because he can then be manful and valiant and fight for him. And then there comes a minstrel to this court, you’ve probably seen these people going around, troubadours and so forth, and a minstrel comes to his court and begins to sing. And he sings about the devil, he mentions the devil, and every time he mentions the devil, the king makes the sign of the Cross; he seems to be some Christian. And St. Christopher is astonished. “Why did you make the sign of the Cross?” And he asked him, “Why did you make the sign of the Cross whenever he mentioned the devil?” “Because I’m a Christian, I’m afraid of the devil.” “Afraid of the devil! That means the devil must be a more powerful king than you are: I’m going to go and serve the devil.” So he goes off in search of the devil to serve the devil because he's a more powerful king. And he finally finds somebody on the road who says, “Who are you?” “I’m the devil.” “Good, I want to serve you. You’re the most powerful king in the world.” So he undertakes the service of the devil, and he goes with him on his adventures to various places. And they come to a cross, and the devil all of a sudden falls back, hesitates and runs away. And Christopher says, “Why did you run away? I thought you were the most powerful king in the world.” “No, I cannot stand the Cross.” “Why not?” “I won’t tell you.” He said, “No, if you don’t tell me I'll go and search for some other powerful king, because you’re not so powerful.” And he explained that there was someone who died on the Cross, Whom he’s afraid of, and his name is Christ. So he says, “Aha, that means there’s a more powerful king yet. I will go and serve Christ.” And so he goes off in search of Christ. He comes to some kind of holy man, a monk or something. And he says, “Where can I find Christ?” he says. Well, he tells him about Christ. He says, “Oh, I want to serve him. How do I serve him?” “Well, start fasting.” He says, “Oh, I can’t fast.” “Can’t fast? Well, then, start praying.” “Oh, I can’t pray.” “Well, you can’t pray. Well, in that case, go to a certain river and build a hut and sit in the river and wait for people to come and take them across the river, and that way you will serve Christ.” So he goes to the river, and builds his place and sits in there, and one night, stormy night he hears a small voice, “Christopher, Christopher!” Three times he goes out and sees no one, and the third time he goes out and sees a small child, very small child standing on the shore and saying, “Christopher, take me across the river.” So he puts him on his shoulders, goes across the river, and meanwhile the river rises up higher and higher and higher, and the child becomes heavier and heavier and heavier. He finally tells the child, “I feel as though I am carrying the whole world on my shoulders.” And he says, “You’re carrying not only the whole world, you’re carrying the Creator of the world.” And so then he goes off and is martyred and so forth. And *you can see obviously this is absolute fairy tale introduced into a life of a saint* (to which Pageau replies, "Yes...and?"), for whatever reasons we don’t know, maybe there’s pagan influences, the result of very good imagination. Well, anyway, this element of romance enters into even such a thing as the Life of a Saint, becomes a total made-up fairy tale. And that’s why you see Catholic and even some Orthodox people paint icons of St. Christopher with the Christ Child on his shoulder, because the word “Christophoros” means “Christbearer,” therefore they make a literal kind of interpretation and make up a story to sit it. And many other cases we see that in the Roman Catholic sources even from the height of the Middle Ages in the thirteenth century, there are very many of these romantic elements enter in. We cannot trust those sources. And this was the reason that later scholars came to distrust the sources. Also, there, of course, are such things as the legends of the Grail, which come up from Celtic legends, pagan legends, The Golden Legend....
I dont see a contradiction in the golden legend accountthe orthodox life of St Cristophorus, can you point it out? I dont see them as mutually excludent.
To fast, is faith
To pray, is hope
To serve, is charity
Fasting was used as a self prescribed punishment for minor sinful acts.
Deny the flesh to proof the soul!
It is not a sign of one's conviction but a symbol of extreme regret for slights against God..just an FYI!
@@Christopher-ej2bs I didn’t know fasting is a form of penance.
Thanks
As an addendum, the term "cult" does not always imply a group is malicious...there were and exist many peaceful cults whom remain silent last the christians and Catholics decide to light the pyres again!
This story has greatly impacted my life. It’s given me such hope.
I’m just learning about St. Christopher.
Interesting stuff.
Beautiful. Broken souls can be used for Gods purpose...
Repented, faithful and humble souls.
Once again, Holy Spirit has used something from JP to shed light on things in my life. I serve the Lord in a congregation that is truly on the Edge. In our ministering to and sharing Christ with the folks in different stages of recovery who make up a large part of our little church family, we confront the monsters at the edges every day. Indeed, they are in the pews and in our gatherings, but they are in processes of being transformed. I feel more like a companion of Christopher, now that I understand the story. We are here, standing on the edge of the river helping to cross over those who would…I also notice that, even though he’s tough, like a “Holy Ghost biker dude”, Christopher doesn’t force anyone across that water. When I was a little Roman Catholic kid, he was one of my favorite saints, but I didn’t know why. God knew, though.
St. Christopher pray for us. 🙏
As hard as you try, you will not get the dog out of St. Christopher.
Geralt of Rivia is a modern fictional representation of St Christopher
But he doesn't carry a Christ figure does he?
@@icarovdl Ciri. Literally a savior child
I was looking for this comment
These clips have such awkward times to end. The story itself is fascinating and Jonathan is always great.
It all makes so much sense now.
Daft Punk's Da Funk was St Christopher all along.
oi love the dog headed versions!:)
Gonna take a while to sort this one out!
I think it's got something to do with those who are willingly outside the church but that still behaves like a noble christian.
Imagine seeing a european neanderthal 500 years ago.... might appear to be chaos
I am surprised a stronger connection isn't drawn between Christopher and fathers. Occupying a marginal space, I'm sure his story is patterned in many transitions but that of fatherhood seems most strong. Christ presents himself as a child who calls to Christopher, only after Christopher made a conscious decision to pursue the greatest earthly good. Taking on the child puts him in peril and causes profound transformation that requires he sacrifice his own passions and eventually his life. I may just be seeing what is most near to me but that appears to be a story about moving from self-centered single life into fatherhood. Patron saint of new dads.
Where’s the story of saint Christopher killing the dragon? I’ve been looking for it
Thanks for expressing Your thoughts on a topic, most would bypass in order to avoid 'entanglement'.
After seeing the images of St Christopher, I remembered Brienne of Tarth from Game of Thrones. Thinking about it further, Brienne's character seems like a retelling of this story!
A tremendously great analysis. Bravo. 👏
I kinda find myself in his story
Im Kristopher 👋
I see St. Christopher is not actually in the bible. Are there any written accounts of the St Christopher story that would be considered foundational or definitive? I'd like to read into this.
In my informed opinion these has something to do with mistranslation of languages in the ancient times plus the superstition and tall stories of each culture combine.
Hebrew - Canaan (/ˈkeɪnən/; Phoenician: 𐤊𐤍𐤏𐤍 - Kenāʿn; Hebrew: כְּנַעַן - Kənáʿan
Christopher is a man from Canaan. He's a Canaanite. My suspicion is, in some language "caninus" (latin) means dog this is where we get the english word "canine"
"kyno" (greek) means dog.
Because of the knowledge that time people see and interprets them as literal.
My suspicion is people thought in the ancient times that people in Canaan where literally were dog-man especially if you were from the other side of the Mediterranean sea (west).
Funny they used statues of hermanubis as milemarkers as well on the roads
Lost world,there's a blast from the past!
..2:47 those were not 'australian bushmen'..they were,i believe,tribesmen from the island of malaita..
well the native Atimosspikay (Dogrib ) people of the north west territory believe that they are the descendents of a celestial dog man who came for the sky with a mortal woman.
So interesting, feel like there are so many stories that have been stripes of its most interesting aspects.
Am I the only one from the Netflix show the order
The preacher,john remeris said when he was a 😈 devilworsher,he could be a werewolf in someone's bedroom and t hey wouldn't know it
'Any' resemblance to "one" static, nonstatic, living and or nonliving is coincidental. Discernment and discretion advised.
Oh my Lord you should get a history lesson in linguistics
In the Orthodox Survival Course conducted by Frs. Seraphim Rose and Herman Podmoshensky at the Platina Monastery, they condemn the legend of St. Christopher as an example of Western "romanticizing." I'm so grateful this exists as an alternative explanation. On the surface, it appears to be a silly story. It's obviously more than that, and by dismissing it as a "fairy story," I believe Fr. Rose & Fr. Podmoshensky - for all their insight and wisdom - actually fall into the very Western trap of literal truth (which Rose also, I believe, does with his young earth Creationist interpretation of Genesis). And they set themselves up for a similar fall, at least with respect to this story.
Here is the relevant portion of the Orthodox Survival Course, which remains excellent and worthy of reading / listening. Speaking of the Middle Ages and Scholasticism, Fr. Rose continues:
"Something else happened. And that is that Orthodox
tradition is not only rationalized, it also becomes mixed with romance. The element of pagan legends entering into Orthodox Lives of Saints in this time made it so that there are some Lives of Saints which we have in our Orthodox sources, if you read the same Life of a Saint in a medieval Latin source, you will be completely astonished. We'll take one example, the life of St. Christopher, which is known -- not too much is known actually about him, but his Life is known: he was a soldier and he was martyred, put to tortures. And there are a number of miracles in the Life; he has a staff that sprouts - this was in the tradition of Orthodox Lives of Saints.
But there is a book written in the thirteenth century, the very
thing which exists in English, The Golden Legend, which is a synthesis or a compilation of lives of saints, like we have daily readings of Dimitry of Rostov, Lives of Saints which is the same thing. Every day there is Life of a Saint. The Golden Legend makes something into being fairy tales or something, not just accounts of something. In the thirteenth century, the height of Middle Ages, before the Renaissance or anything, (when Joachim was doing all the changing?) and here he gives the life of St. Christopher, which is such a one that you won’t know what he’s talking about.
So it seems that according to this "life,” St. Christopher was some kind of barbarian who decided he wanted to go in search of the most powerful king in the world in order to serve him. And he finds some kind of powerful king, who’s big, as always happens, and he serves him and is very happy because he can then be manful and valiant and fight for him. And then there comes a minstrel to this court, you’ve probably seen these people going around, troubadours and so forth, and a minstrel comes to his court and begins to sing. And he sings about the devil, he mentions the devil, and every time he mentions the devil, the king makes the sign of the Cross; he seems to be some Christian. And St. Christopher is astonished. “Why did you make the sign of the Cross?” And he asked him, “Why did you make the sign of the Cross whenever he mentioned the devil?”
“Because I’m a Christian, I’m afraid of the devil.”
“Afraid of the devil! That means the devil must be a more powerful king than you are: I’m going to go and serve the devil.” So he goes off in search of the devil to serve the devil because he's a more powerful king. And he finally finds somebody on the road who says, “Who are you?”
“I’m the devil.”
“Good, I want to serve you. You’re the most powerful king in the world.” So he undertakes the service of the devil, and he goes with him on his adventures to various places. And they come to a cross, and the devil all of a sudden falls back, hesitates and runs away. And Christopher says, “Why did you run away? I thought you were the most powerful king in the world.”
“No, I cannot stand the Cross.”
“Why not?”
“I won’t tell you.”
He said, “No, if you don’t tell me I'll go and search for some other powerful king, because you’re not so powerful.” And he explained that there was someone who died on the Cross, Whom he’s afraid of, and his name is Christ.
So he says, “Aha, that means there’s a more powerful king yet. I will go and serve Christ.” And so he goes off in search of Christ. He comes to some kind of holy man, a monk or something. And he says, “Where can I find Christ?” he says. Well, he tells him about Christ. He says, “Oh, I want to serve him. How do I serve him?”
“Well, start fasting.”
He says, “Oh, I can’t fast.”
“Can’t fast? Well, then, start praying.”
“Oh, I can’t pray.”
“Well, you can’t pray. Well, in that case, go to a certain river and build a hut and sit in the river and wait for people to come and take them across the river, and that way you will serve Christ.” So he goes to the river, and builds his place and sits in there, and one night, stormy night he hears a small voice, “Christopher, Christopher!” Three times he goes out and sees no one, and the third time he goes out and sees a small child, very small child standing on the shore and saying, “Christopher, take me across the river.” So he puts him on his shoulders, goes across the river, and meanwhile the river rises up higher and higher and higher, and the child becomes heavier and heavier and heavier. He finally tells the child, “I feel as though I am carrying the whole world on my shoulders.”
And he says, “You’re carrying not only the whole world, you’re carrying the Creator of the world.” And so then he goes off and is martyred and so forth.
And *you can see obviously this is absolute fairy tale introduced into a life of a saint* (to which Pageau replies, "Yes...and?"), for whatever reasons we don’t know, maybe there’s pagan influences, the result of very good imagination. Well, anyway, this element of romance enters into even such a thing as the Life of a Saint, becomes a total made-up fairy tale. And that’s why you see Catholic and even some Orthodox people paint icons of St. Christopher with the Christ Child on his shoulder, because the word “Christophoros” means “Christbearer,” therefore they make a literal kind of interpretation and make up a story to sit it.
And many other cases we see that in the Roman Catholic sources even from the height of the Middle Ages in the thirteenth century, there are very many of these romantic elements enter in. We cannot trust those sources. And this was the reason that later scholars came to distrust the sources. Also, there, of course, are such things as the legends of the Grail, which come up from Celtic legends, pagan legends, The Golden Legend....
Thats great, thank you for this
I dont see a contradiction in the golden legend accountthe orthodox life of St Cristophorus, can you point it out? I dont see them as mutually excludent.
Bull
Condense, wasted time.
Mercury + sulfur
He was from Canaan. Some semi-illiterate monk/priest translated Canaan as canine. And boom! Dog headed Saint. He's cool though, I like him.
This story has greatly impacted my life. It’s given me such hope.