Let's Talk About THAT Black Templars Theory - 40K Theories
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- čas přidán 31. 03. 2022
- In this video, Remleiz goes on a brief unscripted tangent about a particular topic that a number of people have kept asking him to do a full in-depth theory video on.
This video contains several instances of strong language.
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IMO, the Black Templars are simply too much like Dorn to NOT be Dorn's sons. They have nothing but absolute faith and obedience to the Emperor, like Dorn. They have the burning rage of Dorn after his failure to protect the Emperor. The only thing they don't share with Dorn is his love of architecture, which mirrors how the Fists lack Dorn's anger.
they may not be architects but they do build ALOT
@@updfdrakkell143 That is true. Prolific but functional fortress-chapels on every planet they conquer is a lot of building.
They are religious fanatics that are obsessed with rituals much like the Word bearers. Black Templars hey have far more in common with the Word bearers than they do with the Imperial Fists
@@ZeroNumerous And to quote Dorn... "I want recruits, not vassals!"
they're more like dorn than fucking dorn is
At least it's not an April fools video. Glad you did this series again
That theory was started because Dorn disowned Sigismund and the person reading it was literally literal to the point it might be some diagnosed condition.
The person reading it was Rogal Dorn?
@@ZeroNumerous Perturabo
@@darkmadbat_ practically the same person, daddy just loved one more.
@@Captaintrippz E's bad parenting aside, i think Olympia itself had a lot to do with why Perty came out a jaded and emotionally stunted shit. being your stepdad's "cool toy he makes the neighbors jealous with" and the nonsense that comes with that when done on a planetary scale, will do a number on one's psyche.
@@bladestormviking Oh he certainly got the short end of the stick, but most of the primarchs did, especially Angron. Poor guy never stood a chance.
New BEST Theory: All imperial Fists are actually Alpha Legionnaires
no thats the dark angels
The Black Templars have a lot more in common with the Fists that they'd like to admit :
- Stubborn as hell
- Unflinching loyalty to the Emperor
- Fleet-based chapter (Yes, the Imperial Fists are based on Terra, but The Phallanx is their spaceborne Fortress-Monastery)
- Single-minded (although not about the same thing)
Sigismund just had _massive_ Daddy issues. x)
What Space Marine adjacent character doesn’t have Daddy Issues?
The Fists are based on Terra? I'm pretty sure no Legions were based there in 30k and no Chapters are allowed to be based there in 40k, the closest homeworld to Terra I'm aware of is that of the Grey Knights.... I'm pretty sure Inwit still exists in lore too, but admittedly we know next to nothing about it other than it is an ice world...
@@northernnaysayer1240 All I know is that the Fists were based on Inwit, then on Terra during the 32nd Millenium. But I found this on the wiki :
_Officially, the homeworld of the Imperial Fists is always officially listed as Terra, but in reality, the Phalanx serves as the Imperial Fists' true base of operations._
@@northernnaysayer1240 after the Heresy the Fists still garrisoned the Palace as well as a Keep on Terra. They are the only Chapter who can recruit from Terra itself. The only other Legion/Chapters that could even begin to have a claim to Terra exclusively recruit from their homeworlds Baal Secundum(Blood Angels) or Chogoris(White Scars).
This may be an honor originally won during the Unification Wars but no one has challenged it in 10,000 years.
Black Templars' heraldry is based on Teutonic Knights - and they were masters of fortification who build the biggest castle in the world as their Fortress Monastery.
Sigismund: *"NOTICE ME!!!"*
Rogal Dorn: "No."
Kitten: Didnt you notice him by saying no?
Adornable: hmmm.....
“You are no longer my son.”
“But Father! I’m part of the 7th Legion! I carry your genetic material!”
“MmNo. I have extensively modified my own dna, as well as all Imperial records, so that I am now the Primarch of the 21st Legion, a Legion that has no relation at all to the 7th. I have also fortified the firewalls so that my changes can no longer be reversed.”
“You… really hate me that much? 🥺”
“YES.”
PURGING WITH MY KIN!
THE HERETICS WILL YIELD!
TTS Rogal Dorn: "The Black Templar are Absolute Lunatics."
Indeed
@@tigerh1426 "TTS Rogal Dorn" They are indeed .... cringe
and i just did a tts joke on a comment literally right above this lol. you comment was positioned well
I have no idea how you claim to know my words imperial citizen. Are you a pysker if so please report yourself to your local arbitres.
Imagine if Sigismund was recruited into the Raven Guard or even the Night Lords.
Terror tactics mixed in with the unbridled rage for the other.
Heh, maybe that raptor project wouldn’t have been corrupted so easily.
🎩
ඞ
Funnily enough it was actually a Night Lord who brought Sigismund in to be inducted into the Legiones Astartes.
@@40KTheories never heard of that one, thanks for teaching me something
If you're interested it's detailed within the Sigismund novel :)
@@40KTheories will check it out
@@40KTheories I do like this format that you used. So please more unscripted videos mixed in please
SPEAKING OF RAPTORS.
They need more love. They are so different, that they could make a good Vietnam-esk themed book or short story
as a Nam vets son I approve of Vietnam-esk works (still wish theyd do other war games instead of ww2, shits gettin borin. I mean all ya do is kill nazis, its fun but REALLY dull )
Would be a fun retcon. If any successor chapter could upgrade to a founding chapter it would be the Black Templar.
I mean, the black templar are enormously powerful and enormously influence in lore. Helps they have some the best strategic geniuses of the Space marines too.
@@kyokyodisaster4842 Every chapter has some of the best tacticians, warriors, etc. They're all super soldiers with vast resources and experience. So where Black Templar stand out is their anti psyker army wide rule, and their crusade formations using neophytes.
Emperor's Champion is kinda just fancy wrapping to what happens in every Space Marine fight. There is always one rediculously superior fighter in a Space Marine story wearing special Plot armour. :p
And recently their numbers game which was the biggest advantage of them over the other chapters has been a bit weakened because of Last Wall protocols making them just another Imperial Fist Legion reserve, Ultramarines being used for countless Successors lead by a Primarch, the Space Wolf great companies, and the Unforgiven of the Dark Angels coordinating again the Fallen. Oh and the Primaris making it super easy now to recover numbers and removing the value behind using neophytes at all.
Octarius helped them become a bit more relevant. Maybe we'll see a bigger crusade from them in the future. Finally abuse those supposed numbers.
Considering most of the HH Black books are being discontinued they'll be doing some retconning. I don't think this is one of them though but who knows.
Came in expecting some april fools theory like how the black templars are so big that half the templar’s forces could be alpha legionnaires and no one would know (and how helbrecht is actually alpharius). Instead, came to watch an unfiltered Remleiz debunk what might be one of the silliest theories I’ve ever heard about. I’m actually looking forward to more videos like this where we get to see your take on particular theories going around.
I agree with you. There is no way the Templars are not Dorn's sons, as starting from their traits to their geneseed flaw they are Dorn through and trough
I call bullshit. The 'Siege of Terra' novels are really building-up Sigismund's growing zealotry as an extreme reflection of Imperial Fists' doctrine.
I love how he says knowwhatimean in such an aggressively conspiratorial manner
I like how he says "not a in-depth video" 🤣👍🍻
Technically it isn't lol
Sigismund scanned as a world eater wasn't too far off, considering his friendship with Karn and the "chaining your weapons" thing"
Lovely video. Thanks Remleiz.
"It has to be this way" is a phenomenal song. 💯💯
Would LOVE to hear your thoughts on the fan theory that Sanguinius actually killed Horus - but succumbed to the black rage and attacked the emperor. That’s why the emperor got so hurt because he was resisting killing one of his favoured sons. Some references that Horus knew of the black rage and was perhaps all part of his plan????
I don't think the black rage comes into the blood angels until after the heresy from what I have read. The only flaw present is the red thirst which wouldn't work for this theory.
@@ForwardUntoDusk maybe Sanguinius actually gave into some kind of untapped rage in order to beat horus if that theory is correct (again if)
@@2guys1cliplol I'm betting Sanguinius is corrupted while fighting Horus and the Emperor was forced to kill him. The makes him sad to kill his son and have it make sense because up to now in the Heresy we know the Emperor knows Horus' soul is already gone.
Releasing this on 1st April is a very spicy move.
Theory: The golden throne is actually a golden chaise lounge. Discuss.
I enjoy theories like this because they foster interesting discussion.
Like...that's how science works, at its most basic. Theorize something, put it to the test.
I definitely don't think that theory is correct, but I enjoy the discussion around why someone might think that, and why I don't agree.
Plus now we have NEW ideas like “Are the Fists all Alpharius?” :D
Holy shit Sigismund with butcher nails in his head xD i think not even khorne could handle so much pure rage in one person xD
Demon Fulgrim: I cannot be killed!
Sigismund w/ Butchers Nails: STRONG WORDS FOR SOMEONE IN ASS-KICKING DISTANCE!
I now really want a "what-if" theory about Kharn becoming an Imperial Fist and Sigismund becoming a World Eater.
I want to believe that Sigismund would not take them. He doesn't need them. He could be the one who angron would listen to. It could lead to angron accepting the risk of removing the nails, because he knows that Sigismund will proceed to kill him if the operation went wrong but stay alive (but fully insane) somehow.
Despite all his rage, Sigismund wants the good ending, but until then, he will kill traitors and ennemis of the emperor alike. (And died to abaddon :( )
He'd tantrum so hard he'd implode into the sun from Mario world
Pluto just can't get a break from being bashed on, bring back the 9th planet!
Rogal Dorn to the Black Templars: "STANDING HERE, I REALIZE YOU WERE JUST LIKE ME TRYING TO MAKE HISTORY."
This video format is very nice to watch, Im waiting for more!
Awesome video aside - you should definitely do more of these. I will forever love the full, in-depth theories, but I am pretty sure a 10min unscripted video like this one is far easier to make, especially when time is precious (health reasons and so forth)
So if it also makes your life easier and we get more content, by all means :P I just love whatever you put out, my man! Keep up the great work
Always enjoyed this series, interesting discussions about the juicy unfinished but thought provoking bits GW throws at us.
I think it’s one of your vids that discusses the pale spear and that’s a fun subject. Thinking the remaining brother would enjoy having that. Seems like a statement piece with its exclusion being embarrassing in a way.
Once again thank you for this. It’s a format that suits you
I love hearing you ramble Rem, keep at it!
"Finds out the templars are not from imperial fists" engaged templar noises
If I recall the Mentors, Valedictors and Rainbow Warriors are the most circumstantially likely to be pure Lost Legion stock, having appeared alongside many first founding chapters in early 40k.
Also I remember a bit of a teaser of one of the lost legions being cleaned up, reading as "Rhinos". Space Rhinos Legion?
I can see that since they where originally in Rogue Trader
This was great, I would love more videos like this!
Glad your feeling better and doing what you enjoy again.
Don't forget to check out last week's video, if you haven't already done so :3
Please do more of these, Rem.
Cool video, would like to see more similar quick takes on Wh 40k lore.
By the Emperor's cold hand, what kind of heresy is this? This calls for the Inquisition.
I liked the format of this video. I think it’s something you should do more of, probably when you’re not wanting to do a script because of health reasons or if you just feel like it.
Remember kids, context is key.
Great video man
Good to have you back mate
Make sure to check out last week's video if you haven't done so already ^^
Sometimes i wonder if there was actually a primarch who actually got on well with his terran born first legion 'sons' XD
Konrad Curze liked a Terran enough to make one his legion's first captain after Sevatar's capture at least.
@@40KTheories It would be Konrad wouldn't it? XD
I believe Rouboute Guilliman also named a Terran born marine as his First Captain. Ahriman is Terran too, IIRC.
Fulgrim, he adored them and lamented that he couldn't be there for them in earlier years.
I like informal Remleiz more than delivering a lecture Remleiz.
Mentioned my boys!!!!
THE EXCORIATORS!!!!!
I couldn't agree more on the MGR ost bit, Jaymie Christopherson's work is honestly great
One correction - we do know that Raptors chapter is named after Raven guards raptor project. It is mentioned in horus heresy book Corax: Nevermore.
I honestly like this format of video
Huh, not sure I ever heard Alpha Legion as a possible source for the Soul Drinkers, I personally thought it could have been Thousand Sons because of their high rates of Psykers and their mutations seem very similar to the fleshchange.
It makes a lot of sense once you remember they aren't Dorn sons and the artifact Spear that's gene coded to them therefore isn't coded to Dorn either.
Who has a incredibly advanced genecoded spear?
Alpharius.
Who killed Alpharius?
Dorn.
So a bunch of loyalist AL who sided with the Loyalists thus getting protected by Dorn like he and Guillemon absorbed and protected the Lost Legions makes sense
He also tells him to reek havoc in the WarHawk. Dorn's internal monologue is that.. we can't really be bitches anymore -we have to be insane to match chaos. And Sigi marches out and kills as many as he can find. Also you really need to learn Keyboard shortcuts for your buildings in DOW.
ive been getting the senator armstrong fight recomended so much lately lmao
Soul Drinker fans when their chapter is called out: Wohooo fuck yea
After the cage battle, Dorn separated the chapter by application. BT were mostly from the 1st Company. The CF were mostly from the recruits and new battle brothers. The rest are IF.
Good rant. Highly enjoyable.
Please do more of these
I intend to do so (even if not very often). This is... the 2nd "Let's talk" I think?
The unexpected Monty Python got a literal LOL
You should do more of these, inquisitor. The denizens seem to enjoy your ramblings. ^^
I heard/recall that the gene seed of the lost legions was placed into a timelocked statis seal much like what happened to the gene seed of the traitor legions (yes the imperial kept the gene seed of the traitor legions around and locked them away instead of destroying it)
Now that you mention it, it does ring a bell.
Like I said, this video was unscripted so I didn't do any in-depth research before hand - just went off of memory lol
So perhaps instead of destroying it, it was simply "quarantined" so to speak.
That's confirmed in "Dark Imperium". Cawl made Primaris out of all 20 Seeds and reports via Cawl Inferior that they'd be all suitable for usage.
@@40KTheories you glorious troll :)
Didn't Cawl also do that, despite being told not to do so?
@@40KTheories Yes, He was told not to do so multiple times.
Dorn said, "You are not my son, and you never were" its more than disowning him. It's disowning him and an admission dorn failed an adopted child.
Yeah, like I said in the video I couldn't remember the exact quote off the top of my head at the time lol
welp at least old wounds healed after the black templars rise
@@40KTheories its the "never were" part that gets people.
No, it meant that Dorn was angry and disappointed in what he thought was his truest heir. When Siggy took keelers advice, it flew in the face of everything Dorn believed in and led him to question if Siggy was who he thought he was.
He can construct the greatest treehouse in the galaxy but he still failed from preventing little Siggy from joining the local cult. SAD.
I think at most what could happen Black Templar and Soul Drinkers is them having mixed gene-seed. If I remember correctly Honsou was part IronWarrior part Imperialfist so if I am right then it is possible. So the Black Templars being ImperialFists + would be as far as it could go.
As For the Soul Drinkers Imperialfist + you have Alpha Legion but I like Majorkills Word Bearer theory he had. Most likely every Chapter that people belive are Loyailst traitor stock are mixed, to try to prevent any Primarch connections having them join the Chaos legions while still giving the Imperium some unique Marines.
I really do enjoy these unscripted ramblings.
pretty sure it was ' You are no son of mine"
Lord Inquisitor What are your thoughts or theories on the Squats coming back? and will GW plan to kill them all in the coming Random Tyrannid Event.
Gimme my smol bois
@@40KTheories ask and ye shall receive
Crap now I'm humming the ost for revengence
Cracking video.
It's entirely possible the Soul Drinkers were descended from one of the lost legions...
Yeah
It's Alpha Legion or Lost Legion at this stage.
I personally like the Alpha Legion idea given the amount of crossover points like
turning renegade but remaining loyal to the Emperor and humanity,
the Soul Spear,
not being Dorn's stock
Dorn killing Alpharius etc.
However lost legions would work too.
Would live more like this.
Unlikely theory but really interesting mixed with Malice (the Malal of 40k, Malal is no longer cannon due to copyright but Malice is individual enough to be spared, so far we can assume he is as he has cannon warband). The worshipper of Malice becomes the antithesis to chaos along with life, where individual transforms into an incarnate of hate, but no of the carnal instinc of the beast, but the focused, neverending void, with absolute annihilation only on it's mind. Black Templars ironically (or at least were..) are imperial hijack malice worship, the neverending, unfiltered, pure hatred for anything other than the rule of the emperor (that thing being the only stopping point). Sigismund perfectly encapsulates that in recent book "Warhawk" as he becomes that direct antithesis of chaos, reading the excerpt at least for me that was peak malice material.
Now that's the tinfoil hat theory zone, but the titles theory is at least fun considering legion XI cause of it's number, it was Malal's number in fantasy.
hey remleiz, it's been a few years since your last quote video and a lot of horus heresy books have come out since then, is there a chance you can start doing them again?
This all goes to the idea that if any successor Chapters of the Imperial Fists or Ultramarines that are nothing like their parent. Suggest they maybe made of those from the lost 2nd or 11th legion. I would add though that the Cawl novel we see a literal Necron window into 'What might have been?' In it instead of Alpha who is said to be a chimera of all 20 original Space Marine legions in one Primaris Marine. In the window we see 20 Primaris Marines in same armor as Alpha but not as big as he is. While Alpha says this is window into what might have been, he also says of the 20 Marines shown in his place 2 have extreme psyker powers. Suggesting that one was Thousand Sons and the other one of lost Legions. Meaning at least one of the lost legions were mostly made of pyskers like the Thousand Sons. The only Chapter that comes close to that ironically would be Blood Ravens. It also suggest that if the Blood Ravens are from lost legions. Then at least one of lost legions were maybe meant to be battle pyskers. Like the Thousand Sons and their Primarch Magnus were meant for the Golden Thrown and its operation. While one of lost legions were meant for to be the Liberian Legion.
We need a 40k version of that revenge me meme
Primaris Marines of Dorn’s line now have all the organs the firstborn lack.
Yes they do. But remember that Primaris weren't integrated into Dornian chapters until early M42
Valrak would have an aneurism listening to this....
Didn't Sigismund fight alongside several World Eaters during the Great Crusade and really liked the way they attached their weapons to the bracers on their armor and began copying it? Also, didn't all the primarchs distrust the Terran-born Astartes?
I’d love if they were from one of the forgotten legions; just to see how Valrak would respond and lose his shit. 😸
I'm shocked this wasn't an April fools video
The lord of theory returns!
Don't forget to check out last week's video, if you haven't done so already! :)
Here I thought this was an April fools joke
9:40 HERESY! EMPEROR IS PERFECT!
Ngl, when he said this video wasn’t an attack on somebody I was half expecting a raid, shadow legends, ad.
Considering the amount of money Raid offered me was _insultingly low_ I have no plans on ever accepting a sponsorship from them.
I just liked the idea that Sigismund was a lost Primarch, like a good version of Lorgar.
So I gotta be honest I didn't click immediately because I thought this was a prank, but if you're doing more unscripted im totally down for this
Less on the theory, more on the gameplay. I need to play Dawn of War again, it was a nostalgia trip watching you play :).
So for the warriors of the lost legions that were integrated? Was their geneseed replaced? Is that even possible? Or was it just seen as a non issue due to the size of a legion?
Ramble with Ramelez:)
I think the Betcher's gland is the most underused but of Astartes lore. The only time it really comes up is when a SM spits on the ground in conversation at the spit sizzles a little. I don't know if it's better that way or if it's overused.
There was a nice use of it in the Bloodquest comics, as a flashback story involving Brother Cloten sees him use his Betcher's Gland to chew through a set of prison bars to escape captivity.
By the Emperor, THAT!
Finally I'm glad somebody is covering this topic. This is really the truth about them.
We know the lost legions, or at least one of them, were split up between the Ultramarines and Imperial Fists. That means there is a non zero % chance that the gene seed of ofthose primarchs had some effect on the successor chapters that came from those legions.
It would highly unlikely one for of those chapters to be the Black Templars. If there were to be a chapter made with lost legion geneseed, it would be much more likely to be the Soul Drinkers. If I remember correctly, it’s either them or some other Dorn- successor that’s geneseed doesn’t come from Dorn, and has an unknown origin.
Sigismund the betrayer scary thought
I hope that one day we get some solid info about the Lost Legions and exactly what their Primarchs did that was considered so awful that they were wiped from history. If that day ever comes, I bet that it will raise more questions; why did the Emperor and Malcador consider those actions so awful that they warranted historical oblivion, when rampant mutation, continued gross disobedience, Chaotic corruption, and outright treason were not?
More rumbling please :)
I don't know that the Black Templars are descended from an unknown primarch. I was thinking loyal sons of Perturabo or Lorgar.
More please 😀
I agree, but I also think the black templars and very stinky, and I do not want them to be successors of Dorn.
Okay can I ask a question. In one of your videos I remember hearing that the demons of slanesh appeared before the awakening of slanesh. The demons fought the harlequins before their boss woke up. My question is if it did happen, what book or video was this from and is it canon?
Edit, I missed the whole sigiamond story before this, what happened to sigismond to make him believe the emperor was a god? Did it happen because of lorgar, did he discover something or did it just happen?
The daemon prince of Slaanesh being around before the Fall was from the novel Farseer by William King
@@40KTheories thank you, but it was only a prince? I thought some lesser showed up. Not to say I'm ungrateful though.
I have developed a excellent way to story to redeem the ultramarines on the eyes of the fan base. It story takes place in modern 40k dealing with the ultra marines plot armor.
Summery Manius Calgar becomes disillusioned now that he is no longer chapter master and begins looks back to the seemingly impossible victories the ultra marines have had over the past 10,000 years and he starts to investigate. This leads him to battle various op demons and traitors who he defeats too easily increasing his frustration all leading to a confrontation with a greater demon of Tzeentch called Matwar the string master (play on Matt wards name) who has been manipulating the ultra marines behind the scenes for 10,000 years allowing them to secure victory from even the most ridiculous odds all in the goal of boosting their ego entitlement and resentment to eventually fall to the service of tzeentch adding a living legendary space marine first founding legion to his collection unlike the physkers and gollum’s of the 1000 sons.
Matwar plays to Calgars pride and secret resentment of his Primarch offering him power and for a moment he is tempted he instead charges at the demon but this time the strings of fate are against him. Calgar struggles mentally and physically against he demon but if Matwar though he would despair the demon is dead wrong.
Instead Calgar is smiling and laughing for the first time in centuries the former chapter master is happy he has finally met an opponent that poses a real challenge his fate is uncertain finally taking it into his on hands not manipulated or pre destined no grantee for victory or defeat as what combat should this pits the demon into a sense of unease after hours of this dual of fates Calgar chooses to go for the proverbial jugular seizing the demon by the throat with his power fist using his sorcery Matwar begins melting the ceramite as his armor starts to fail Calgar takes one final gambit throwing the demon against the wall he seizes its staff containing the a tome of fate and spells with a final effort he cracks it across his knee resulting in a explosion of physic energy Matwar is seemingly banished back to the warp with manus Calgar lying on the ground dying his armor severely broken but he remains unbowed with a smile on his face” I go to the emperor at peace” and with the last of his strength talks out a purity seal parchment scribbling courage and honor restored, with that final action Manius Calgar lord of Macragge chapter master of the Ultra marines hero of the imperium of man finally dies.
It is intentionally left vague if this this has set the ultra marines free from their plot armor but the reader is meant to feel hopeful that it was worth it.
Just listen to Sigismund last words... then tell me he was not a Dorn's son...
‘You will die as your weakling father died. Soulless. Honourless. Weeping. Ashamed.’ he said that into the face of the Abaddon... he was holy hatred incarnate... that cannot be anything but a true son of Dorn...
How can Sigismund be inducted into other Legions since Astartes cannot transfer to other Legions or chapters. It's down to the Gene seed, and in extreme situation, integration of defunct legions.
Fairly certain that the II and XI legion troops were absorbed into the XIII. At least what was left of them after decimation....
I like the gameplay